Ep. 017: Is America Being Pushed Toward Communism?

Marxist intellectuals, "woke" corporations, Democratic politicians, and the Leftist media endorse totalitarian policies. They fire workers for criticizing Leftist orthodoxy, call for government agencies to regulate "misinformation" on social media,  report only what supports a socialist agenda, and lie repeatedly about current issues. Dr. Nora Dimitrova-Clinton will join us for this show. She holds a Ph.D. in Classics from Cornell University, she grew up in Communist Bulgaria, and she is a freedom-loving American patriot. Andrew Bernstein, Bosch Fawstin, and Dr. Dimitrova-Clinton will discuss the baleful similarities between current Leftist policies and life under Communism.  Do American Leftists really seek to turn the U.S. into a North American version of Venezuela? That is our topic.

Transcript

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hey everybody out there in freedom of speech land how are you on this beautiful uh wednesday evening for me this is a special you know broadcast from florida show i'm in florida for the next couple of weeks then i'll be you know back home you know in in ensconced in my underground bunker in the in the new york suburbs but anyhow welcome to truth in politics and where we where we speak the truth where freedom of speech is sacred and here with my co-host bosh fosten i'll introduce our special guest in just a minute how are you tonight posh excellent glad to be here as always great well we're glad to have you here and we are grace tonight with a special guest right dr nora dimitrova clinton uh how are you how are you tonight laura excellent and thank you very much for the invitation this is a most welcome opportunity to share my experiences well yeah you know thanks for coming on you're very very welcome for us uh inviting you let me let me give a little background i know i know you've written a book recently that that you know you can talk about and promote uh but um nora grew up in bulgaria under the communists and uh she was able to to get out of bulgaria and and come to america she has a phd in in classics from cornell university she's a very brilliant woman and uh written written she's an american patriot loves freedom and capitalism and everything good about america loads the communists as much as i do probably more since you know i grew up under them in new york city but nora really grew up under them in in bulgaria so we have a lot in common here and uh the first thing i want to do laura of course is ask you about your experiences in in bulgaria as a kid growing up and of course if you want to promote your book which which says what says a lot about that you know you know feel free to feel free to do so so what was it like growing up under the communists um i think that a lot of people when they think of communism they somehow believe that the theory was good but somehow the implementation got messed up due to human nature or bad people but that is actually quite false the biggest difference in my view between american values or any democratic freedom-loving country now and the communist system stems from the different philosophies of these respective systems so the american system is predicated on deep respect for innate individual rights right to life freedom property pursuit of happiness communism and totalitarian socialism is the opposite of that its very philosophy puts no value in the individual so there is some abstract social group and an abstract social good that has been put on a pedestal and the individual can be sacrificed in the service of this so-called common good so this is where uh all the problems arise because once we surrender our rights to the government no matter how good the government may seem then there's no telling how far a government can go in removing these rights and communism is a casing point because basically uh in order to establish their utopian and absurd belief system they killed over 100 million people all over the world and that's a conservative estimate so last year when i uh was watching how young people especially i was struggling with the pandemic i thought that perhaps now is a good time to share my story of growing up under communism and comparing it with my experience of coming to this country and having achieved the american dream so i wrote a little book called the quarantine reflections across two worlds it's available on most major book outlets as well as from the publisher and it's primarily meant for american young people and it tells stories on the one hand the stories of my childhood and early youth under communism and on the other hand what happened when i came to this country because i feel that um people need the frame of reference and the basis for comparison in order to appreciate how good we have it in this country and the only way to achieve that is to show how it was in another system and also that is a powerful way to dissuade people from trying to establish socialism in in this country or elsewhere so i'm happy to say that my book has been enjoying some success and a lot of young people are reading it and they're persuaded that maybe communism wasn't such a good system and they're looking forward to learning a little bit more what everyday life was like under communism and why it is just the power opposite of the beautiful freedom and meritocracy that we have in this country well i've i've read nora's book everybody and and i would strongly recommend it it's available it's available for amazon it's it's poignant powerful it makes a lot of good points about the contrast you're using using uh her own life as the background makes a lot of makes a lot of good points about the contrast between growing up under communist totalitarianism and then being able to live in in a free country in the united states so i'd strongly recommend uh your book laura bash i'm sure you have some questions for uh i have a lot of questions uh in terms of how old were you when it came to america well i was already uh in my mid-20s and at that time communism had collapsed thankfully in eastern europe so i was in 18 actually in 1989 when the berlin wall fell i was in my last year of high school and i immediately took part in all of the rallies uh pro freedom rallies and i was so happy to see that uh something that nobody believed would happen actually took place in eastern europe but i was still old enough to remember the misery and the oppression and the lack of freedom and my family suffered to like many other families so i have a lot of memories that i'll never forget and i always wanted to share them with the with a broader audience i just want another follow-up about that was there like a clash when you came to america did you have to if not deprogrammed because not that you believed in it but what was the when you actually got here objectively when you saw america when you lived here when you understood it what was from your ideas about america to you to the actual reality of it what did you you know what did you think about it and also those who were who were undercutting it like the left who were undercutting it within america and what you thought about those as well yes i always admired america and i always wanted to continue my education and go to an english-speaking country since i had been i'm fascinating by language languages and i i've been studying english since the age of six and what was really funny was that we weren't allowed to speak it there were no uh sources so i studied it as if it were a dead language i do have a degree in greek in latin so i could read shakespeare but i didn't know how to engage in a simple conversation so i wanted to go to an english-speaking country and i actually spent before coming here i spent a year in london where i did a master's program and then i was fortunate to win a scholarship to do a doctorate at cornell university in classic so i came here and i am describing this story in my book my first day there was a very long trip several flights and finally after almost uh 24 hours of travel i arrived in ithaca new york where cornell university is located and the next day i just woke up and i was very hungry so i went for a walk in the area known as college town i found this bohemian cafe full of industry students and i just asked for ham and cheese sandwich and then uh the server asked me what kind of bread would you like and i thought to myself well bread is just bread you know but what do you have and then he listed about uh 15 kinds of bread uh rye wheat bumper nickel um gluten free and i thought to myself this is what abundance is like then he listed five kinds of cheeses various kinds of ham all kinds of um condiments and i thought to myself this is just a simple sandwich i don't really care but this is what abundance feel like and then but what's even more important because that's on a everyday practical level but i felt the spirit of freedom as soon as i arrived and i felt what meritocracy truly meant because i didn't have any connections i didn't know anybody but i was appreciated since day one for the skills that i brought to this country and i was given opportunities that were equal to anybody else's opportunities so i immediately realized as long as i work hard as long as i treat people well i can succeed and i'm happy to say that i have achieved the american dream so it was a love at first sight i never experienced any culture shock because i was mentally prepared to appreciate the american system but uh i really am an extremely grateful and happy new citizen horrible that's great you know nora and everybody reminded me of of something the the you walk into an uh american supermarket and it's just this cornucopia of foodstuffs and it's and it's just it's really amazing and people who are anti-materialist you know will they'll disdain it as if it's as if it's you know as if it's trivial or unimportant and i want to point out to them no it's life and death people have a right to their own life and to live and to be able to support their children or feed their children and capitalism delivers the goods the food is there in abundance and that's life-giving and anybody who values human life should value the capitalist system that's able to provide that kind of abundance in food and any number of other consumer goods but having said that there's something that's even even more fundamentally reminding me norah of 1989 and everybody out there in freedom of speech land 1989 when the berlin wall came down you know i don't usually watch the news because it's depressing but that fall of 1989 i'd hurry home from teaching to watch the news to see well what tommy this country felt today you know it was it was great and i remember the berlin wall came down i think it was november right november 1989 it was in the fall november 9th yeah but thank you november 9th 1989 and had interviewed this one guys who's you know from east germany uh he spoke english he said he said i'll never forget this as soon as he heard that the wall came down he ran you know to get into west berlin he didn't go back to his apartment you know to get anything in the communist country he probably owned much but he might have had stuff of sentimental value he said no he ran you know across the border into west berlin because he was afraid they changed their mind wow and steal the border again i'll never forget what he said about you know about this he said i think i can remember the quote verbatim he said quote i didn't come to the west to to eat more bananas or drive a bigger car i came to the west because my soul could not survive in a prison and even even deeper than the material abundance there's the souls yearning to be free to be able to guide my life by my own best judgment and not have the state dictate every aspect of my life to me there's the real there's the real value in individual rights and capitalism that's beautiful yeah it was very touching so nora you know i'm thinking of my you know my daughter who from china you know and um you know well you've met you've met penny and you know her mom and i helped her you know get out of china in in 2004 when she was a year old so she she got out of a totalitarian state came to america it was still a free country back then but now i know i don't want to sound like one of these alarmists you know you know like these global warming alarms what did aoc say like the earth's gonna burn up in 12 years or something something like that yes it is yeah which is completely false and melodramatic alarmism so i'm trying to be sober and objective here but i'm i'm getting scared what i've seen in the last few years is the united states now being pushed towards a totalitarian direction and so one of the reasons of many that i wanted to have you on the show nora is because because you you've experienced it and and now you're living in america so do you see any you know lenin pick off line rand's philosophy professor iron man's leading student wrote a great book in 1983 maybe it was published the ominous parallels about the the parallels between wyman germany that led to the rise of national socialism and and and late 20th century america well i'm seeing a lot of ominous parallels between now between marxism with some national socialist elements but mostly marxist elements in america pushing us towards communism i was wondering if you if you see any of that and you know you know if so must terrify you having grown up under the communists yeah there's definitely a cause for concern and usually i hate politics but i think there are times when we cannot remain silent and we must do our best to educate people with facts and reason and logic and tell them what it was and what the dangers are and i think now is one of those times and actually i recently reread 1984 and there is one quotation that struck me as extremely um powerful and i think it really applies to what's going on right now that's by george orwell 1984 every record has been destroyed or falsified every book rewritten every picture has been repainted every statue and street building has been renamed every day has been altered and the process is continuing day by day day and minute by minute history has stopped nothing exists except an endless present in which the party is always right so when i saw that i definitely recognize some parallels of what's going on in terms of cancer culture because it is one thing to admit true laws and horrible events in a normal country and another thing to completely erase the past and to go after uh decent political figures to try to rename everything and to try to silence people for voicing a perfectly normal uh disagreement that's backed by historical facts so i find that attack on free speech and three thought very concerning and another thing that worries me is uh thinking to myself if communism were to be imposed and i believe that it's our duty to stop it and i actually see a lot of people speaking up lately which is a good sign and i remember it was i think president reagan who saw that uh who who once uh said that freedom is one generation away from extinction so it's every generation's duty to uphold freedom and now it may be a little bit more difficult than say 20 or 30 years ago but uh such things have happened to although now they're in a different form but what makes me wonder is if communism were to come to this country would it come in the form of 1984 or brave new world and i did read some articles about it some scholars believe that actually what's even more insidious and dangerous is not really a brutal totalitarian regime with gulags and poverty but what we are experiencing now is a lack of freedom which is very similar to what it was during communism but i believe what uh those people and they're actually very few but very vocal and very powerful in their uh ability to impose propaganda deception and this information i think what they want to see is a and this is on a globalist level people who are like sheep so they're content they may not be starving they may not be killed they may not be put in prison they they're their basic needs are met they have food and water and they have their little electronic devices their content but they're dull they're not great personalities they're almost asexual beings just like in a brain in the uh brave new world and they uh would be monitored in the name of safety maybe we'll have a system like the social credits in china and then they would comply with this big global government that knows what's best for us so that's what i fear actually now even more than i fear a brutal version of a totalitarian regime i don't know what the either of you thinks about that but i think if communism comes to america in the world it will be a fusion of brave new world in 1994 and we have to stop it and i think we can i agree i think we can as well but just one thing nora in terms of is it because of the nature of america and what it has been meaning because of the nature of america because of his love of freedom because of its capital is because of its good ideas that it can't be uh just just outright dictatorship that there's something even within the left in american the american left is different than than others on the left like in like like china chinese left you know let's say because they've been made better in some way just by being part of america so they can't they can't even see themselves as being evil so they're like have a more outwardly protocol benign totalitarianism you know because of the nature of america because of the because of what they know themselves to be good about america even you know like biden biden doesn't think this country's evil i mean he he really doesn't to me to me he's just saying what he's saying to appeal to the blm and to the antifa and to all these other you know the fire breachers like aoc but there's something about the nature of america the character of america that doesn't allow them to be outright you know a totalitarian you know dictators where they have to be some some kind of benign still is that is that do you agree with that or i i think that's an interesting point but i think that the reason why i fear a softer version of uh totalitarianism is just because there may be no need to be brutal if people are going to voluntarily give up their freedoms and they would enjoy some minimal level of prosperity because there still will be these big tech companies can that can produce things in fact what i find unprecedented and rather strange and alarming is the voluntary participation of big corporation in this marxist ideology so they don't know what would happen to them if they were truly uh existing in a communist country but what they're hoping is that they would basically um have global control and it's i think unprecedented also to have these giants that uh whose g whose revenue is bigger than uh the gdp of the wealthiest nations they're very powerful and now they can they think they can play god so to speak and they can tell us what to eat how to behave what values to have and that is new and we have to find nora no we lost we lost you we can't hear you can't hear you the sound mike is your mic working the sound uh the sound's not working i don't know if i don't know if you can hear us but we can't we can't hear you right now maybe you get got to get your tech guy there yeah maybe just uh pull it in and out and we can see from there in the meantime you just want to yeah you know what you know how you deal with recalcitrant technology bots these are kind of bang on oh see like the old tv set you know with the when the antenna wasn't working and it sometimes worked yeah but but there's one thing andrew just what we were saying before in terms of this uh outwardly quote unquote benign more of a dictatorship where as she says you get a more passive populous you know where they don't but they don't have to bash us over the head but they say well you know they're passive to begin with so we don't we don't want to wake them up i get nora's point here you know with the pandemic how many people just went along with the shutdowns i know you know it's they observed that the uh there would be totalitarians observe that no doubt about it yeah if the american people stood up and said no lockdowns no so we have to go to work you're gonna ruin the economy some of us did but i don't think there's any basis for lockdowns last night or not sweden didn't lock down well they didn't at all i mean they did you know they got hit like anybody else but i think some of these if i remember correctly some of the countries on the european continent like france and belgium was it who who has severe lockdowns got hit harder than sweden did so there's no there's no basis for it but so many people went along whether you want you want to disconnect nora put it back on just uh nora if you could hear us can you hear us nora it looks like it looks like we looks like we lost our yeah maybe could you disconnect on your end and maybe try to get it back on or we'll just you know again we'll just we'll we'll just continue um let's see laura see if you can see if you can sign back in okay she okay she's off so well hopefully she'll be able to sign back in because you know having grown up in a communist country yes she has a lot a lot of value this morning also my my parents escaped from a communist country albania but it was they were you know they were muslims in uh communist country they they came to america so i guess we're getting the messages now yeah well the the chat is working yeah it just kept getting anything like ricochet left is poison for all civilizations of the world that's that's for sure and we were talking before with norm pre-show about the language about left right and all this right and the left tries to say oh the far right is just as bad no no it's not it's not the far left quote unquote is totalitarianism collectivism it's the worst of the worst the critical far right in an honest way to look at politics is less controls more freedom of the free trade the free speech that's what the critical extreme right is you know it's more more yeah any definitions you know because left and right are spatial metaphors and they have no literal applicability they could choose so if you know i always teach my logic students you know if they're going to have any meaning i'd like to use left and right as a shorthand but left left means collectivism and social yes it means the primacy of the group or the state over the individual and i mean socialist system which the government you know controls the economy and in full socialism every aspect of an individual's life and and and right then means individualism and capitalism individuals have inalienable rights the moral purpose of the government is to protect those rights and capitalism because the system was it was private private property and uh you know the right of individual to conduct his own life which you know and we were saying before freedom of speech freedom of religion freedom of the press and so on so yeah then then then you're absolutely right you absolutely isn't his nora laura can you hear me now yes yes we can great yes we can there was a storm and a thing that did something to the con okay well glad glad to have you back yeah i was just saying you know left means collectivism and socialism yeah what means individualism and capitalism and so just being finished the point then then left so you know definitely includes the nazis national socialism is fully collectivist you have no right to your own life under them any more than you do under the communists the you know the the the you like belongs to the state under the national socialism as fully as it does under the communists so we need we need to keep hammering that point that national socialism and evil system the only thing only thing proper about it is its name it is a fully socialist system um the only difference between the national socialism and communism is the nazis are fighting race war and the communists are fighting class war that's that's you know national socialism is race war socialism and communism is class war socialism and by the way nora you know in the black book of communism it was this great quote from one of lenin's secret police officers i think was martin luther was his name when he's he's exhorting his men the secret police officers the early days of the soviet union and he says to them see if i can remember the quote he says we don't make war on any people in particular rather we're exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class and i remember reading that i'm thinking to myself yeah that's much better you know you know we murder millions fight class war not race that's much better but but anyhow i know you know let's call hitler he invoked marx he said all of marxism i mean basically we we went we weren't full full throttle these guys were just pamphleteers they were not from the communists in his mind so so to me just just one last thing uh to me it's like the shiites and the sunnis they're both muslim right the iran that's not the saudis but they just have a slightly different interpretation of a certain origins and certain ideas about it but they want the same exact end they want the same exact end that's all but nora you were uh you want to add about the discussion about the left and right and the language we use yes and also one thing you mentioned in terms of the youth and trying to appeal to them and trying to win them over about these great ideas that we have but uh yeah absolutely i also i think actually that uh talking about left and right is not useful even if we agree uh on the terms and say that left is collectivist then right it's individualist there is in people's mind the word the right or extreme right is somehow associated with racism and uh with nazism so uh which is of course the total opposite of what these systems were and i totally agree with you in fact i have read uh articles about both mussolini and hitler uh liked marx and there are a lot of similarities also in that book amino paradise but mussolini was one of the heads of the italian communist party before yet yes yeah well he split with him so and it's not a coincidence that uh at the beginning of world war ii there was a an alliance between hitler and stalin which started on august 23rd 1939 they wanted to divide poland and conquer the rest of the world and then they had a falling out but that's not because they were different or ideologically opposite but there's no honor among thieves absolutely eventually they they got greedy hitler double crossed stalin before stalin had a chance to double cross yeah he would have done the same yeah you know he wanted to be in patrol he wanted to be in power i mean they they both want one to win they don't want the other one they want to be you know it's like a competition i mean basically coke and pepsi of course an extreme way but that's what they were they were competitors they wanted to be in control my particular form of of totalitarianism isn't a win that's th that's that's what they were thinking about it anyway sorry go on yeah but the similarities are really mind-boggling and i did some research on the theoretical origins of socialism and it's actually a fascinating phenomenon because actually the very words uh terms left and right originated shortly after the french revolution and they were purely spatial terms it's about where royal eastern entire royally sat so the entire royalist said to the left of the king or the in the assembly there was no more king so they said sat on the left and the royal set on the right but that really means nothing and it's not helpful and um socialism actually originated with writers such as henris and simone and other french philosophers who wrote shortly after the french revolution and it originated as an antithesis of the liberalism of the french revolution from the very beginning it was conceived of as a an authoritarian system that doesn't respect human rights and they were actually the early socialists they were even they were honest about it and then marx viewed socialism and as an intermediate stage to achieve communism and often communism and socialism are used interchangeably and there's the dictatorship of the proletariat and even in the theory this is supposed to be achieved by valence means and there's nothing good or noble about it so basically they believe in exterminating physically anybody who opposes their utopian view of society and there is no doubt about it but what is fascinating is that even though communists are focusing more on the class warfare they were also racist and a lot of them for example marx was an appalling racist he was a very anti-semitic he said horrible things about black people as well as mexican people and in soviet russia there was this idea about the soviet man or the communist human being and that was a a basically a eugenics-based idea of a perfect human being almost like a superhero and actually if you think about the the name stalin that's not his real name it's a nickname which means a man of steel so this was the image that was portrayed communist people especially soviet people they were made of iron or steel and they were supposed to be superhuman and in fact i don't know if you've read about that but there were experiments in the 20 1920s i believe 1926 by soviet scientists they wanted to create the perfect human being who would be genetically very strong but also it wouldn't uh have silly ideas such as freedom or disobedience so they had the extremely evil unbelievable idea to crossbreed apes and humans and a soviet scientist sent by stalin went to africa and he he actually tried to inseminate the female apes with the um human uh sperm but of course you cannot really produce a progeny out of that and then he had the evil idea to take we actually african women and inseminate them with ape sperm and uh he tried to do that that's a real experiment in 1926 in french in french guinea but fortunately the governor of french guinea had enough common sense to know that it would be immoral and a crime so he didn't allow the experiment and then he tried to persuade russian women to agree to that but of course nothing came out of it and it's biologically impossible but it shows you the extreme lack of morality or and the extreme insanity of the communist government and also it shows you the races as well as class warfare nature right yeah that sounds like something the nazis would do you know something associated with that right they were as racist as and they were against jews absolutely right they definitely were i mean look at what's going on in china um you know the one the one thing that can that really bothers me laura you know and everybody um i think of it as your the baleful similarities in contra well you're different than glenn pickles ominous parallels but the barefoot similarities the thing that bothers me most of all and basha and i have said this over and over again it's the reason we started this show is freedom of speech is under attack in this country and it comes from the left it's not coming from the religious conservatives although you know they have their moments you know they what i think desantis wants to bring legal action against against tech companies that censor conservative uh speech you know on on which you know obviously i i don't i don't agree with since those tech companies are privately owned and i think i think they should be i think we should verbally denounce them and economically boycott that but not bring legal action against them but mostly it comes from the left the cancer culture you mentioned before nora you know we had jason hill philosophy professor from depaul university on the show the targa the horrors of what goes on in the american universities today the dangers you are in if you speak out against leftist orthodoxy and it's not just that you might get fired from your job although that's bad enough or and or like you were saying before we're going to rewrite the past we'll completely obliterate thomas jefferson and james madison let's say because they were slave owners which is evil without a doubt that has to be acknowledged but we're going to just completely evade the the tremendous intellectual moral achievements of these of these giants of the virginians the supportive individual rights uh and freedom so we're going to cancel them uh and you know and the whole principle of individual rights along with the progenitors of it and that's the most terrifying thing to me is this discussion that that happened after the election um you know in in the fall last year uh aoc was saying she wanted lists of political enemies and she said at one point that we need some kind of government agency to monitor mis mis uh information on social on social media remember you remember all this the uh one of the one of the one of the members of the democratic national committee who was elected from california was saying that we need to think in terms of you know post war germany and japan to re-educate trump supporters you know this goes beyond anything any of the horrors you know of the left in the past this smacks of re-education camps of gulags that you know that i think is is 10 years 20 years from now if that trend continues uh tom perez head of the dnc said aoc is the is the future of the democratic party i could see you know president or premier aoc 10 years from now setting up blue logs for political enemies and the timing of it also after they won't deal after they won the election uh aoc felt empowered to be a little more open than she normally is about that you know i mean she was coming out there like full throttle totalitarianism enemies list going after individuals from what they say and that is just that's unheard of from most politicians even on the left they're afraid of saying those things openly yeah government's going to regulate misinformation on social media i mean that's that's an open call for censorship it is so so it's bad enough you know i mean there's so many elements to it the le the lion leftist media what was always dishonest and and bernie goldberg's book in 2001 bias was very but he was a cbs news reporter and a cbs news insider so it was very it was it was very corroborating to see him you know point out something i had known since 1960s that the media is dishonest as hell the the the all the news that's fit to promote a socialist agenda but they've gotten worse and worse they've been lying for 30 years about climate change and the leading climate scientists in the world are skeptical of the agw hypothesis they won't cover they won't cover them they've made up this mythology about white supremacy uh that that they're pushing they they lie about everything they'll they they won't cover uh dissidents they won't cover people people who who disagree you the big tech now you know will will close your twitter account or kick you off facebook for 30 days if you dare to cancel you know data criticized leftist orthodoxy we're moving towards censorship and the the worst of it is when you know when you get powerful government officials like aoc or like that member of the democratic national committee whose name escapes me calling for you'll say we need to think in terms of post-war nazi germany or japan in order to re-educate trump supporters or you know 75 million republican voters uh that's that's bad enough when private news agencies or big tech you know suppress freedom of intellectual expression but one open call for the government to do it that censorship that's the most terrifying thing to me that we're moving towards a communist move towards economy to stay nor you grew up with this it's like to me it's like the new york times is like pravda you know they're just lap dogs for you know the for the democratic party and and a socialist government and they're pushing the 16 19 projects new york times are pushing as far as i mean that is just that is it's a libel it's like a blood level it's completely false it's a complete lie but they just want to smear the country at its at its core from you know pre-revolutionary war they want to smear the country you know before it before it ever came about uh i don't know i mean we can go on with that yeah but that's the noir you want to terrify and that's why one of the reasons nora wanted you on the show when you see this go going on it you know and and the lion leftist media is like it has certain similarities to the you know to the state-controlled media that you grew up with in the communist country it must it must scare it must scare the hell out of you absolutely and actually i have uh i would like to say several things about that but first i wanna i my opinion about uh the various uh platforms like twitter or facebook and um uh censoring of speech that they don't don't like is a little bit different of course they're private companies and on the one hand they have the right to uh basically block whoever they want but there is a different issue here and i think that's what the certain governments are trying to address so they enjoy protection under the law under section 230 so uh there is a difference between publisher so uh newspaper like new york times or washington post their publishers they don't enjoy section 230 protection but these uh other platforms like facebook and twitter they're called uh they're a public forum so it's like the garden where people the park where people can get together and basically everybody speaks their mind without censorship so you cannot it's either or but they're trying to have their cake and eat it too so they enjoy protections from lawsuits under section 230 as a public forum but at the same time they don't act like a public forum they act like a publisher so i think that's the whole issue so if they're violating the law then this protection should be removed and if they're engaging in libel and slander and so forth they should suffer the consequences it's not really in my mind a matter of whether uh they have the right to block people of course they do but they cannot enjoy the protection of a public forum and act like a publisher that this is a sense i absolutely agree i absolutely agree with you nora i mean i think you're absolutely right but there's also something else and you know and that is as a as since they're private companies we're not helpless against them you know if the government uh sen senses us you know bosh and i speak out or you speak out and they drag us off to a gulag i mean you know there's there's nothing there's nothing we could do about that except revolution but you know we're not in that dire situation with facebook and twitter and these private companies because we could boycott that we could speak out against and we could boycott them we could use the the free market to set up uh alternative uh social media sites like rumble didn't uh didn't mike lindell set up his own uh you know he's been having a hell of a problem to actually uh establish the uh social media aspect of it he's had a hell of a problem he's getting attacked left and right by global you know leftists i imagine to try to stop him from doing it but right now it's a video place but he's he's he's threatening to get it back on so we'll see you know we'll see yeah yeah what i find especially worrisome is is that private companies which are very powerful in fact have almost a monopoly they're even more powerful than than governments and they engage in censorship and i think this is new and we have to find a way to uh fight against it by using of course every lawful means that our disposal with education and pointing out facts but i yeah i do find the cancer culture the silencing of the dissenting opinions very similar to what communism was all about and um um it reminds me of a of an episode i read in uh solzhenitsyn the uh gulag archipelago and i think it truly relates to what's happening right now and it's a very moving episode that he tells the beginning of the book uh shortly after the russian revolution there is this uh seemingly unbridled enthusiasm for the communist party and for comrade stalin so in some russian town they're having some meeting of the local branch of the communist party and at the end of the meeting which had nothing to do with stalin they have to all stand up and applaud stalin and of course he wasn't anywhere near that town he was in probably in moscow so there is a standing ovation and everybody and they're all supposed to think alike and they're all supposed to show their enthusiasm so they start applauding and they're standing so five minutes pass six minutes pass and the older people are starting to get really tired because they're clapping insanely but nobody dares to stop applauding and finally on the 11th minute uh a man made common sense for some local factory director decides to sit down and so he stops applauding and sits down then everybody sits down he's arrested that very evening and he's interrogated for hours and then he's put in prison for 10 years on a different pretext but at the end of the interrogation the officer tells him don't ever be the first to stop applauding and this is how group thing works and this is how cancel culture works i've heard things recently saying silence is violence so not only are we supposed to be like sheep and to repeat exactly the same slogans and virtue signaling but if we are silent we are considered dangerous and violent and i think that this is extremely concerning but i'm also happy to see that there is a lot of opposition which is growing every day a lot of people are protesting against cancer culture against what's going on in schools a lot of schools are rejecting critical race theory which actually doesn't help racial uh minorities in fact it harms them and it teaches division and hatred for this country so i see a lot of positive developments but we have to be vigilant and we have to keep educating people but i think as far as far as group think cancer culture freedom of speech is concerned these are all signs of uh of communism right uh i think that this is still the best god no no i want to ask the point i want to ask you something yeah i think i still believe this is the best country in the world and there are a lot of very good things about it but we really need to oppose cancer culture and we need to politely explain that by having a different opinion they're not dangerous or violent and the very idea of science and academia presupposes a debate and a dialogue not just silencing people right now when a conservative speaker is invited on campus there are demonstrations people they they're afraid of even hearing something different and that is extremely uh pernicious and we have to really counteract that no abs absolutely right let me go back to the point you're making before about the social media platforms you know and and and acting like a publisher or on the so so what do you think is it is is proper government action against because because i mean i agree mark zuckerberg at facebook jack dorsey or twitter you know you know these guys are bastards they're you know they're not just hardcore leftists which is their their right but they will suppress they will suppress anybody who you know who disagrees with them i sebastian and i got got you know we got d platformed at youtube for severe and re repeated violations of youtube's community standards uh policy which is just code for you know uh consistently critiquing leftist orthodoxy so that's now now you know it's their political legal right to do it it's their platform but i regard it as highly immoral and that is the morally right thing to do is to promote debate to promote freedom of speech if people aren't openly advocating for mass murder you know which we certainly not uh then i think we should we should have you know have oh you know uh advocate open discussion and debate on whether it's climate change or racism or or whatever it is i think it's immoral to stifle it so what do you think is the you you're making a distinction before between a platform and a publisher so so what do you think uh what do you think the government's proper role here is to in dealing with the social media platform suppression suppression of any uh of any speech that that critiques left this dogma well i think that if they're violating their uh um rights uh to have protection under section 230 that is if they act like publishers and censors but they pretend to be a public forum where anybody can express an opinion then they should be liable so i think the government can and should remove their protection what protections do they have under on the so under section 230 i need to look that up but i believe that they're uh not to be sued uh because they act uh for speech that is considered in any way uh potentially um either violent or speech that is considered uh leading to a lawsuit so they enjoy that protection but on the other hand they remove it on their own so they act like a new newspaper or like a publisher like a sensor so it can be both either they have protection under a section 230 and then they should allow the legalities of this is all new to me so let me see if i get this straight so if the government removes that legal protection then presumably basha and i could sue youtube for for de-platforming since they're supposed to be um it's a freedom of speech as long as you're not advocating violence is is that right just really also i've been i've been deployed on twitter i was banned on twitter i was banned on facebook and brought back and instagram uh threatened that uh pakistan would i violated pakistan's laws you know so therefore my and one thing also i've gotten thousands of death threats literally and on facebook and people were sending them uh i guess reports of it and they said this does not violate our i mean literally they want to rape me and murder me this does not violate our terms of service they kept coming back i have dozens and dozens of examples where they said that outright explicit obscene threats did not violate their their their terms of service which is unacceptable to me it's just it's unacceptable and they also they're also frauds they are frauds they they accuse me of being violent and dangerous i'm just a damn cartoonist i i mean cartoons are not dangerous but they they smear me as violent and dangerous in order to try to de-platform me that right there that's that's fraudulent behavior they are engaged in fraud and in you know definition so those things i don't think they should be able to get away with that at all so yeah you see i'm just trying to get my head around the legalities of this so if they're getting certain legal protections because they're supposed to be a freedom of speech site as long as exactly but they don't abide by that right yeah well as long as the people you know who are participating on facebook or whatever are not advocating for violence or mess murder then they're supposed to uh just let it go right they're supposed to be a a site for everybody to to speak their mind they clearly aren't in which case they're violating let me see if i got this right they're violating the terms under which they're getting legal protection and they should be open to exactly they should be open to lawsuits then from people who who are who are peaceful and who when they when they suppress peaceful uh people is that right but i would like to see people you know the new york post should sue twitter for what they did over you know over the crackhead gate case back in back in october and november when they shut down uh that was pure politics they wanted to help bottom period i mean it was as naked as that as naked as that you know yeah so that's why i don't have a problem with the what the governor the scientist is doing because i think that he is allowing citizens to florida to sue these platforms if their rights have been violated it's different from having the government violate some private private corporations rights in this case they're enjoying the protection of section 230 uh which allows them to be a public forum but they're not acting like a public forum and they're acting like any newspaper with an agenda so they can do both right and also one thing in terms of these companies and what they do uh i just had this thought in terms of damn it i lost it i lost the thought i'm sorry it'll come yeah on to your body it will it'll come back but but yeah i'm glad you explained that nora be because you know i i agree okay the fcc we always heard about that remember for years decades old you have to see don't don't go against them we haven't heard the fcc in years why because the would-be government sensors are like you know they're doing on they're doing essentially you know basically the the social media and their power they're not the bad guys anymore jack dorsey will be a bad guy mark zuckerberg will be a bad guy let's let them do the censoring i mean that's so they've almost farmed it out and they are thai and they're in bed with these guys and they want to be with i mean zuckerberg spent 300 million dollars to try to get biden elected that's not the action of one of some neutral personality that's a guy who was in bed with these guys they wanted one absolutely they want a one-party state biden does the left does zuckerberg does jack dorsey jack dorsey gave millions and millions to the critical race theory crap you know to the blm millions so these guys and as did uh i believe what's the name um amazon but anyway my point is that they've farmed out the censorship that they would do and they're laughing their asses off the government they're like man people use be afraid of us of central americans these guys are doing it and they and we're we're not the bad guys we can just accuse them of doing it if it comes down to it it comes down to it so yeah they've they privatized you know the form of some [ __ ] right the government in a lot of ways this is a really good point this is a really good discussion or i'm glad we were able to clarify because i wasn't clear on what the league what the legal sanctions that these big tech companies were you know the protection they were getting from from from the government they claimed they say we are politically neutral absolute bs they are as left as democrats they are they are in bed with the democrats they work with them and you know that's why when they say well private companies yes but they go behind the scenes and work they censor people that the government asks them to censor that's not uh i mean that's not the actions of a private company that's people who are in bed with the corrupt government and again they want to form out they want to privatize the citizenship that they would do otherwise and and again if it comes down to it they'll be like well we didn't censor you know you know they did yeah on their behalf that's a good point it's a really good point so i mean what we need to do of course is to to keep speaking out as as long as we have you know keep speaking up and to support entrepreneurs like mike lindell in setting up uh absolutely setting up freedom of speech sites rumble is good right uh youtube d platform bashani nora but rumble does and we have all archived on rumble keep supporting you know entrepreneurs who support free speech and boo to the zuckerbergs and the dorsey's and all the these guys we can damn them condemn them because they're up to no good i mean that's a fact i mean look you know i i love the social media i love to get my work out there i i sell my work they're great fine but they've crossed the line at a certain point they invited us to be part of their platform right and then when when they got big enough they say you know what now we're going to start to pick and choose who we call good good guys and bad guys we're going to start to dictate how americans live their lives which is which is repulsive i mean they should have the power to do that and again to smear individuals who have a different ideas as dangerous and violent that's a that's definition they shouldn't be able to get away with that with the power that they have again because they have you know how many users hundreds of millions if not billions to the point where they can actually defame someone and have real you know do damage to that person's life you know professionally let's say because then he's known as a critical dangerous violent individual like uh laura laura loomer dave dave smeared as dangerous and violent there's nothing dangerous and violent about her nothing you know both you guys are making really good points you're reminding me you know what you were saying bosh about the fcc before when obama was president there was 2013 or 2014 he wanted to put fcc simulators into the news rooms remember yes and the internet as well yes yes and of course there was a there was properly you know an outcry against that but you're making a good point the government doesn't need to do that anymore they haven't been with big tech who's pumped in millions and millions and millions that's obviously that's their proxies democratic party yeah big tech and the democratic party of one interlocking directorate and they don't yeah you're right you haven't heard it's a good point i haven't heard anything about the fcc because yeah it's a good way to put it the government has privatized censorship i mean it's not funny but it's but it's for an entire episode i mean we can go on about that you know privatization we gotta keep speaking out like i said supporting the entrepreneurs you know the mike lindells of the world rumble and you know parlor and your stuff is like that the hardware wasn't and parlor was throttled by think about this apple amazon uh twitter they throttled a competitor who was not on board with them they throttled them and then they came back only now by the way they're back on the app with making the concessions that i guess that that they had to make you know is that going to be bad for you know for parlor probably but we'll see we'll see but they throttled and they throttled the competitor because they accused them of generating the uh the insurrection on january 6 which is a complete lie complete lie it was a complete lie anyway it wasn't him father didn't have anything to do with it or very little to do with it on on top of it but yeah yeah those companies that you mentioned that throttle parlor you guys are right they're the privatized wing of the democratic party you know i mean look of the politic of the political left that is something that i would love to debate some some fellow objectives about that because a lot of them give them a pass on everything and that's just not the case i mean they didn't deal what i dealt with i i've been called again dangerous and violent and facebook ignored facebook twitter and instagram they ignored rape threats and death threats against me and said oh they don't go against our our uh community standards that's a it's like if that doesn't go against them then you guys are just you're up to no good and that's the nicest way of putting it you know you know nora and bosh something just occurred to me as you were speaking so we got d platformed on youtube i mean youtube has this this plethora of stuff i can't if if we search through youtube i imagine what kind of stuff forget about it of course a hundred percent we violence yeah probably find leftist sites that that you know support blm supports muslims who want to wipe out israel who want a nuke israel 100 they have those 100 that whereas we got the platform and and you know we never advocated any kind of violence and we were absolutely opposed with and so so it's so it's interesting it's it's it's it's terrifying it's all it's all it's all the uh the uh discussion on social media that that supports a leftist agenda that that's fine if you if you critique the leftist agenda you're out that's what they do universities and you know it and and the pretext is that you're dangerous and violent as a pretext because you're not but they're like if we call them dangerous then we can get rid of them on that ground but the the truth is they want to get rid of you because of your ideas and then they'll smear you as violent and dangerous because of your ideas that you're opposed to them and that's just to me it's it's it's it's defamation it is fraud and they're engaging in it consistently consistently at this point wow well we have our work cut out let's go go ahead yeah i think more and more people should speak up they should be aware of their rights and they should seek their rights and i think that eventually uh other platforms would occur or because people still vote with their dollars these companies will be forced to restore freedom so i believe that we have a lot of power and we should continue with the logic and speaking up and appealing to our rights and uh looking up the legal provisions we should continue to defend ourselves but i also want i think i uh may disagree a little bit uh with you about um um about the uh democrats as a whole and i i really see potential here because my experience has been a little bit different i spent many years in academia where most people vote democrat probably i don't know 90 percent maybe even more and i have met some people who are decent and reasonable human beings and i would describe them as classical liberals and they probably vote to democrat i myself consider laura oh we've lost we've lost your mic again laura can't hear you maybe you want to turn turn back off again and turn back on get the see if you can get the sound on but uh yeah we just did you know we were discussing we can't we still can't hear you laura um do you want to you want me to cut you off and try and try and get back on again yeah let's do that and then maybe like last time but yeah i just uh i don't know i mean these tech companies again you know we ve we get value from them i get value from them i have you know used them to spread the word about my work to get you know to sell my work but again when they smear you as violent and dangerous in order to you know throttle you to to get you out of them that's that's defamation if they're engaging in fraud and but but the censorship uh again i was one thing you know with social media who needs the government to censor you know i mean it's like parlor will wipe out accounts uh sorry uh uh patreon patreon paypal we'll go after individuals oh no no no we don't want to deal with you banks at that at that point banks will go after individuals they want to basically destroy people's ability to make a living with you know with their ideas and that's dangerous that's that is not in the spirit of america that is not in the spirit of free speech that's not in the spirit of anything good and decent it is in the spirit of totalitarianism whether they are themselves you know powerful government agents that's not the point or agencies they're acting against individuals to hurt them uh in a in financial ways because of their ideas that's just uh and that has been spreading now across the culture i call it you know it's it's no longer the uh speech police it's a it's a speech vigilantes you got individuals across the culture now uh you know destroying people's lives on twitter when a whole mob goes after you oh this and they and they dox you they put your address out there they put where you work they destroy your life you know they destroy your life um sometimes they succeed sometimes they succeed but again i'm not going to stop you're not going to stop uh you keep going until until you drop dead i mean what else you know what people's nora hello hello all right we'll hear you again good yeah go ahead yes well several things i believe that we um need first to educate young people and to talk to people of uh various political persuasions and i since i spent many years in academia i know a lot of people who vote democrat but i would describe them as classical liberals these are reasonable people they love the united states they love freedom they like a good debate it's just that when we have a discussion on a political level uh they uh they almost have a visceral reaction towards certain political figures or events but when i point out the philosophical and historical problems say with communism they agree completely so i think that actually the marxists and the new marxists in this country are probably less than 20 percent but we need to kill the layers of marxist propaganda because this is an extremely powerful and sophisticated apparatus that works uh by manipulating language and once we realize what's going on and we have to keep explaining what's going on um have to keep pointing out the marxist nature of say critical race theory identity politics political correctness uh modern feminism environmentalism all of these things that are really not about the issues that they purport to be about and i think a lot of people would agree and it's our duty not to give up and to keep persuading and talking to people because we don't need to agree with everyone on everything we just need to restore a situation where there is a normal liberal and normal uh conservative side and they can debate and improve things but it's based on respect for individual freedom economic freedom and ultimately appreciation for this country as long as we restore that we'll be fine i understand that like a guy like alan dershowitz right he's out there and he says certain things he's for but he but he is condemned by the left he's called the nazi by the left you know he's a good he's like the last good decent you know lefty out there liberal and he is condemned so that's also a part of their problem as well because their side doesn't see them as you see them as we would like to you know to see them as these decent people they don't see them as that they see him as enablers of the right quarter quote of the evil right that he helps he helps trump you know therefore he's uh to be condemned so they do exist and i know personally uh but uh but again they are a minority they're becoming a minority and one-on-one they might be decent like when you speak to them individually but when they're in their group and you're trying to tell them these things i think they see you as a threat and they they also lose their own individuality what they actually believe and start playing to the crowd just just just my experience in my assumption yeah i mean there are there are people on you know on the left who are starting to speak out against the censorship they're alan dershowitz has won bill maher yeah and i think this is this is going to be there's going to be a trend of courageous people on the left who who truly believe in freedom of speech to stand up because because i think you're right nora i think the vast majority of americans and maybe even rank and file democrat voters you know believe believe in the in in freedom of speech and i think i think when when we make the case at that level i think we're going to get a lot of support and i want to make an important distinction here and bosh you and i have done this before on on several different shows you know that this you know and go back to social media the distinction between a political legal issue and a moral issue so so so you know on uh and and then the analogy i always you i always use is you know if i'm at a if i if a marxist philosophy professor colleague of mine invites me to a party at his house well if the truth is i won't go but but if i did if i did and i'm presenting you know objectivist ideas and he tells me look not in my backyard buddy you're freed all those ideas but not in my you can't express them in my backyard well his property rights you know give him give him the right to say what i could say in his backyard what i can't but if the position reversed and he went in my backyard i would engage in open discussion and debate with him that's the morally right thing to do not to exercise my property rights to suppress but to to respect his right to freedom of speech because i agree one and the deeper reason here is i agree 100 with iran that human life is the standard of value and the mind the rational mind is the means by which we promote human life and part of that is to respect the right of everybody to speak their mind to respect their the right of you know freedom of intellectual expression is the way we arrive at truth a lot of times open discussion debate this is this is the way we are so i think what i think when somebody suppresses uh your speech and their property it's their legal right to do so but i think it's it's counted to immoral requirements of human life i think also though some i mean we have the truth on our side we have the truth on our side uh marxists don't that's why as as as moore mentions you know they have this apparatus this incredibly detailed complex you know this this system of propaganda that they need in lieu of the truth okay because they don't have the truth so they got to come 24 7 propaganda constantly constantly to try to pound people in the head as much as possible can and that's why you know when you say if you if a marxist invites you over and you and you you want to hear what he says but you have the truth honestly you have no problem telling them the truth yeah they're threatened by debate absolutely especially honest honest intellectually honest people they they target they target those in particular because they know that they're a threat they know iron rand and her ideas are the major threat to them not not the right per se but iron rend and objectivism to them our good friend as example alex epstein uh if i remember correctly i think he has a standing one hundred thousand dollar offer to out walk to debate him on climate change now alex's money is safe aside from the fact that he mocked war right but his his money is safe because al gore very clearly said there's no time to debate you know now now that's just bs um he won't debate because he knows a knowledgeable person on the other side will you know has the evidence and you know will will greatly it will will win the debate easily and i would point out to al gore by the way if you're right and if the danger is so imminent that's all the more reason why we need to debate because we need to take action now to save the earth we got to make damn sure that we're taking the right exactly right everybody's ideas out there who's got the evidence disappointing if you're right it's all the more reason to debate exactly but won't debate exactly what put if if that much is is at stake they would debate but yeah the the future there's gonna burn up in 12 years we need to we need to make sure that we have the right policy now and that that means we need the evidence what he knows is what noise says basically if alex you know debates him he will wipe the floor with him the audience will look at it and say whoa whoa what just happened here all that propaganda that we heard everything you know this guy just got destroyed and there will be like a real change at least it will get around at least if it's a video if it's not going to be suppressed it will get around to the point where some younger minds were like wait a minute we've been lied to by this guy who's who's made a career out of it and that's why they can't allow open debate with leftists leftists do not want to debate no they don't you know it's there's a we should point out this there's a real self-confession here on on the part of of of the leftists you know the the the lion leftist media who won't interview for instance climate change skeptics you know man-made climate change and you only present uh there's not even news it'll only make presentations that support a socialist agenda they very rarely if ever will give you know uh conflicting viewpoints social media will suppress your people who challenge leftist orthodoxy like you and i got deep platform cancel culture will fire people from their jobs for speaking this all this is a gigantic self-confession that that they don't that that the they're they're threatened by the evidence and truth and open intellectual discussion and debate threatens them it's a confession that they don't have the evidence to support their conclusions because because the people the people who have evidence welcome welcome open discussion happily happily let's bring it on the show leftists money where we'll figure it out some honest leftists who disagrees with us on like everything except maybe freedom of speech but yeah but you know we put our money where our mouth is and not just bring it home guest song like nora who's brilliant uh but she agrees with us she looked to find somebody who would disagree with us and and i'm sorry i am open for it i'm open for it absolutely so yeah yeah i'll we'll discuss it i'm sorry nora i got off all excited and uh yes i i've met many people and i don't want to call them leftists because to me that's a term of offense but i call them liberals and i think that there are a lot of reasonable people who love freedom and have enough common sense and i think that as long as we point out that we want the same goals it's just that the means to achieve the these goals as they are presented by new marxists are never going to work it's not socialism that will make people have a better life basically capitalism has brought so many people out of poverty and we can see the statistics so as long as we keep pointing out that we are not against the rights of various groups like women various uh might minority groups in fact we support these people and we want the best for them so as long as we keep pointing out that it's not the goals that are bad but the ways uh that these people are trying to achieve them with either uh some government intervention or by identity politics or some marxist ideology i think there is a lot of common ground and we uh we need to keep exposing uh new marxists and show that they really couldn't care less about rights of various uh individuals in these so-called victim groups but in fact they want to keep them oppressed so they can get their votes and i i managed to persuade a lot of people especially when i give examples of communism and the brutal record of communism uh in its disrespect for human life for property rights for liberty and i think nobody can argue with that and we also have to we have to be particularly vigilant about the ability of marxists to distort language and to constantly they're quite chameleonic they constantly change their shape and their platform well in fact they want to divide the society between victims and oppressors and they attribute collective crimes to the so-called oppressors and we see this uh it's crystal clear now in identity politics so we we should keep exposing them and once we start calling we shouldn't even call them liberal or left we should call them marxism or communists new neo-marxist newcomers that's what they are so as long as we uh point that out i think that a lot of people will see them and we should be able to uh basically go back to the original division and opposition in this country between normal liberal and normal conservative values and i i am hopeful even though uh the past a few months have been really difficult and rather disappointing to witness everything that's going on but i think that there is strength in numbers and more and more more people are starting to see similarity between communism and uh restrictions of freedom of speech and identity politics and i think that uh hopefully within a couple of years sting will things will become better we'll see we will say we we certainly will um and by the way um looking at the chat here walter markowitz said the left will never debate they know they will lose they depend upon fear and intimidation and walter i mean you're right in many cases al gore you know we discussed just before as a case in point he will never debate but nora is right there are there are people um you know on the left maybe a few who are better than than than the mo alan dershowitz uh you know bash and nor have been discussing but he's condemned there's a nazi by the left i mean he is condemned of course not of course not absolutely no doubt about it he's good he's good on free speech he was for the mohammed cartoon contest he was not against it which is great uh he's been good on he's he was bad about uh the vaccine at one point he goes look the government has a right to just jam it in you because it's like you know that's where his leftism comes in it's like what the hell are you talking about well if he wants to come on this show we could discuss that with him absolutely it's ridiculous maybe he changes tune i don't know but he's one of the last few standing decent you know liberals on the left who still votes for the left uh but it's just not enough it's not enough visible i mean nor there's not to me maybe you know these individuals maybe in person but there's not enough out there in the public eye like dershowitz and like you know more who's been a little better of late who go out there and make a real influence and change with these individuals because it's just they mar gets booed by his audience when he goes after islam you know he gets booed so you know i might be able to to find some professors in the philosophy department what you know you know where i teach who's who's a reasonable leftist who may be willing to come on the show and discuss this with us bosh but um go back to go back to the point you were making before nora you know you're absolutely right i think about a lot of the rank and file you know in the democratic party but um you know lenin you refer to them as useful idiots right i mean they just they the the the they just accept you know you know what they hear but i think still they i think they still i think most of them i think you're right still believe in freedom of speech which is the which is the most important issue of all to me that's the single most important issue issue of all and uh you know if we appeal to them uh you know about on that issue that look the guys you are voting for in in various ways looking to suppress uh intellectual disagreement you know i i think we can i think we could get you know bill you would say the strength in numbers i think we could you know start to build the coalition here of you know p yeah we can even start a movement the three of us americans for free speech you know and i think we could get i think we could get a lot of supporters including rank-and-file democrats look i'm voting i hate trump i vote for buy and everything i don't i may even tolerate aoc but i want freedom of speech i don't want to be i don't want you know uh big tech companies the news media the government i don't know i don't want this this one-sided presentation i want to hear i want everybody to be heard and i think i think we could get a lot of support from even from rank-and-file democrats on your on this issue uh yeah i absolutely agree with that and i think it's really crucial again to differentiate between left or socialists because that's what they are and liberals and i recently re-read uh hayek's remarkable work the role to serve them where he describes socialism and i happen to come across the edition the american edition which was published in 1956 so many years ago and he says in this edition that he is absolutely puzzled why people in the united states confuse liberals with socialists when they're total opposites and they would even go as far as to use the word liberal which of course comes from latin liberalis and language is a powerful thing immediately it brings to mind liberty freedom so it's kind of a good thing subconsciously and it means in latin free or generous so uh hayek says that he's shocked by what he calls the muddleheadedness of people who call who start to use liberal as a term of problem so we should really be very careful when you distinguish between people with a liberal that is freedom loving mindset and those who are marxists and they're the ones who are really fanatic they're the ones who don't want to debate and i think that we should encourage a separation between the two wings of let's say democrat supporters or basically people who wouldn't vote republican but to me it's not even important how we vote islam i mean it is but what i mean is that as long as decent people preserve their ability to debate and think freely and speak freely i think and that's probably the majority of people we should definitely uh count on that i just think we need to hear more from those individuals themselves as well besides us trying to you know separate them they need to separate themselves and there has been some indication i uh came across some leaked report about some meetings i believe in the democratic party where there has been a lot of internal criticism and a lot of people are saying we should never talk about defunding the police or socialism anymore because uh we would be yes but that's fear but that's but that's fear of losing power that's not a fundamental fear that they have i think it's fear of power yeah yeah i hear yeah i hear what you're saying but uh uh i i still believe that it's also our duty to keep pointing out the extreme ability of marxists to manipulate language and to use terms i mean for example it's like the overton window phenomenon they take a word which is radical like socialist they start to use it as a synonym of liberal and then they insert it into the normal political dialogue and now it's even something sensible desirable except they're masters doing that so we constantly keep we must keep pointing out the wolf in sheep's clothing you know what we're coming down towards the end the conversation i mean it's been fun the time thanks norah thanks coming on this news thank you both oh yeah it's great that you came on laura i just want to leave everybody with a with a question here um suppose when we started you know a group uh americans for free speech and you know and we started a facebook group or you know and on twitter and everything do you think do you think we would be deep platforms yes yes i do i mean the irony the tragic irony of being the platform of a free speech group being the platform from public you know from from the public discourse they cannot allow the free exchange of ideas to be uh they cannot allow it to go on without their they just can't they just can't at this point at this point but we'll see i mean let's just maybe we'll try it i mean why not yeah it wouldn't hurt right absolutely right absolutely right if we do get deep platformed i mean there's a selling point for us to go out at that point the american people including all of the decent people who vote democrat that nora is referring to it and say do you stand for freedom of speech and freedom of intellectual expression look what's going on we had a free speech organization that got deep platform that's social media and and make it that explicit a free speech you know yeah american american perspective you could be i'm like a drawing for it i'll make a little freaking communist you know if you know we will protect your your your right to free speech right and and then and then monks are convinced the people who come on there say i i want to bring down the free speech say okay you can say that you can say that here i'm gonna guess we'll even have you on the show to discuss it exactly well yeah i found that society i believe the acronym is fire for yes foundation for individual rights and education right that's a a wonderful initiative and a lot of universities 70 plus i think have signed up so i certainly see a future in efforts like that right and um i believe that uh by the way is one of the founders he's a leading historian enlightenment scholar at penn and and one of the one of the most brilliant spokesmen against communism that i that i've ever heard and and you know and i i have a i have a good relationship with him uh we um bosh yeah we if we we could get we gave professor cause to be part of the americans for free speech have him on the show you know it'll be uh it'll be great it'll be great i'm so i'm i'm sorry laura we interrupted you fire is the foundation for individual rights and education right he's what he's fascinating i didn't know that in a new professor course but i always when i talk about communism and how it differs from american values i i love a quotation which is from a lecture by alan cars and he wrote no cause ever in the history of all mankind has produced more cold-blooded tyrants more slaughtered innocents and more orphans than socialism with power and certainly when i tell people reasonable decent people about all those innocents who were sent to camp were murdered who whose lives were ruined and you can't argue with that and decent people accept that especially young people and i think we should keep use using education reason logic facts and right yeah a combination of we could keep tying it back to the suppression of free speech in this country because that's a that's a major communist tool you know of suppressing free speech and who who's ahead of of a fire i mean who who started an anti-communist do you mean it wasn't a leftist it wasn't some you know some some self-styled liberal who leans left it was a guy who understands the threat that we face yeah it's alternative on the left i'll tell you you know a couple years ago i was speaking at a at a professor's conference at clemson university and professor cause gave this this talk on communism uh yeah was just moving and and and brad thompson who we've had on the show uh bosh was you know was a brilliant intellectual brad thompson said said the professor cause that is the greatest speech i've ever heard in my life wow is it is it available on video or it might be on youtube yeah yeah it was awesome yeah uh it's just a brilliant speech that told the truth about communism and he wedded the emotional power of intellectual truth that's what that's what made it that's what that's what gabe was talking about i mean it was just crying i was just crying i was thinking about the victims of communism yeah it is overwhelming the uh the damage yeah that's why because nora is right we there's there's the there's the connection right there's the kind of what is the that is it i mean that is the straw that that is it i mean once that goes if free speech goes we're we're we're done yeah let's do it nora is right we can show the horrors of communism and the the destruction of free speech is bo is is part of the theme of any totalitarian state nazi your congress you have to get people to stand up for free speech and that and i think and i think that's that's a good wedge we could drive into the left push towards um you're pushing us towards communism so americans for free speech we got to start this movement get up on facebook and twitter and and and and you two may not want us but let's see see what happens on facebook and twitter you know what we'll try on youtube again why not just yeah contact i'll contact professor claus unfortunately wants to be on our board that sounds awesome and nora you're invited to be on on the board of america that sounds great i think actually a lot of people i'd say 80 percent would agree with with that and another problem is that when people haven't personally experienced they haven't been burned by cancer culture it's difficult for them to understand what we are talking about but for example the author of the harry potter series jk rowling she can be described as i guess a liberal in her views and she just stated that uh uh sexy is biologically defi uh defined and she got cancelled and her golden prints in any dim burrow were covered with red paint to symbolize the blood on her hands so i think a lot of people will get burned and they will realize uh basically uh that the emperor's new clothes don't exist but it just takes a while and you have to be patient and we have to be when the when the left when the left continues to eat its own jt rao exactly because they are doing that absolutely yeah alan it's going to wake it's going to wake more people matt matt tybee i think rolling stone i think he's more or less he's going i mean he's leaving the left i mean in some ways i don't know about that he's she was a journalist he was a real lefty i think he has been critical of left and even the other guy from the inter from the intercept uh what's his name um he interviewed yeah i know he i don't remember yeah he was also he was a terrible leftist i mean he was anti-semitic he was against israel i don't know i don't know where he is right now but he's clearly been very critical of the left now and he's been condemned as you know of course a nazi but uh there are some individuals high-profile individuals who are stepping out and i think free speech is the issue yeah i think with them so when we say that you're right i think it will hopefully to drive into the left's power to push us towards communism so this idea was born on the show that idea was born on the show thanks nora yeah dr dimitrov great to have you on the show thanks for coming on and hopefully you'll come on uh back again in the future because this was a great discussion i would love to and uh um i really enjoyed our conversation there's still so much more um what have you want to get in the future do you want to put in a less plug for your book nor yes and maybe i can send you a link but it's if you just google quarantine reflections across worlds it's available all over the place and it really gives a very readable personal story memoir uh view of what communism is all about and i think that it truly um touches people resonates with people and along a lot of people have told me that they learned a lot so i do hope that the people it's an excellent little book easy read and i should point out while we're on the topic of books nora that you that nora heads the american research center bulgaria which promotes uh you know bulgarian scholarship uh including by americans and she published my novel a few years ago a dearth of eagles which take which takes place largely in bulgaria and has bulgarian uh characters i even brought a copy with me to show it on the show but i left it in another room so i'm gonna go go you know but thank you for that andy yeah your your book is fabulous it's such a fast read but also very deep on a philosophical level and our foundation basically publishing his book books with the historical contribution to all historical periods but we also created a website about the victims of communism in bulgaria and we are trying to find any biographical information of all those people who were killed and so far we found about 25 000 names and biographies of people but there are many more and people still afraid to talk about that but that's one of our projects and we donated the materials to the state archives so at least it will be preserved for posterity well that's a great that's a great uh program to have nora that's a great you know uh great work to do so congratulations to you and and your foundation that's uh that's outstanding that is great thank you all right everybody out there in freedom of speech land this episode episode 17 already oh gosh we've been rocking and rolling yes uh sorry go go to rumble everyone we have our entire we have i guess the 17 episodes there um subscribe to spread the word if you like it we want to keep this going so go to rumble uh truth in politics at rumble and you you can go over there and just spread the word we would appreciate it absolutely right thank you very much everybody we'll see you again next week on truth in politics thank you so much thanks for coming on laura thanks for