Raising up the Staff Voice through the Power of Staff Networks - a National Inclusion Week special episode with NHS Employers

Join our presenter Rosie Clarke for this special National Inclusion Week 2023 episode, where we delve into our third National Inclusion Week 2023 Daily Action:  Take action – empower your employees.

Our guests in this episode include our Director of Impact and Major Programmes, Addison Barnett and our guest speakers from NHS Employers, one of the sponsors for National Inclusion Week 2023:

• Cheryl Gascoigne, Advanced Occupational Therapist and Chair of The Enabled Staff Network, The Newcastle upon Tyne Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
• Tracie Jolliff, Head of Inclusive Leadership and System Development, NHS England and Deputy Chair of the Health and Care Women Leaders Network
• Chris Truscott, Programme Manager, Mental Health Network and Heath and Care LGBTQ+ Leaders Network and co-chair LGBTQ+ Staff Group, NHS Confederation.

Find out more about National Inclusion Week.

For more information about Inclusive Employers, visit the Inclusive Employers website at inclusiveempolyers.co.uk, where you can also find top tips, resources, webinars and training to help make inclusion an everyday reality for your employees in the UK and beyond.

Transcript

Talking Inclusion With …

Series 3 – Podcast 3 : Raising up the Staff Voice through the Power of Staff Networks – a National Inclusion Week special episode with NHS Employers

INTRO :            Talking Inclusion with Rosie Clarke. 

ROSIE :             Welcome to Talking Inclusion with... I’m Rosie Clarke, my pronouns are she/her, I’m an inclusion expert and Director of Member Services at Inclusive Employers, and your host for today’s podcast.  Our podcasts are for anyone who’s interested in inclusion and diversity; we share life stories and experiences, learn about best practices, and hear practical advice for employer from our guests and Inclusive Employers’ inclusion and diversity experts.  Before I introduce our guests, in case you don’t know us, we’re Inclusive Employers, our mission is to make every workplace an inclusive employer, where every colleague values differences and can contribute their skills and experiences fully to their organisation.  Together we’re taking action towards more inclusive workplaces, and celebrating progress towards making inclusion an everyday reality for everyone. 

                        We’re releasing this podcast on the third day of National Inclusion Week 2023.  National Inclusion Week started 11 years ago and was founded by Inclusive Employers, it started as a small event encouraging members to highlight and engage with inclusion in their workplaces.  We’re pleased to have watched it grow exponentially to reach thousands of organisations and millions on social media.  National Inclusion Week is also a time for everyone in the organisation to get involved in I&D, it provides a space and a starting point for discussions around inclusion and diversity in your organisation.  It can be used to generate or to launch new ideas.  

Every year we celebrate National Inclusion Week with a theme.  The theme aims to provide a focus for the week to support your overall inclusion and diversity agenda, this means the theme usually reflects what we think organisations need to be thinking about and what organisations have asked us for support on.  This year’s theme Take Action Make Impact centres around encouraging immediate action, not next year, in six months or even next month, but now.  This is an ever continuing process, necessary action to be more inclusive workplace will be constant and consistent ongoing process.  It is never a one and done.  So, we wanted to include something in the theme this year that reinforces this, whilst encouraging organisations to think beyond action.  We have set daily actions based on our six pillars of inclusion each day during the week.

                        During this special podcast we will delve deeper into our third daily action, Take Action Empower Your Employees with one of our sponsors, NHS Employers.  Today I’m joined by Cheryl Gascoigne, Advanced Occupational Therapist and Chair of the Enable Staff Network, The Newcastle Upon Tyne Hospital NHS Foundation Trust.  Hi, Cheryl. 

CHERYL :          Hi Rosie. 

ROSIE :             Tracey Jolliff, Head of Inclusion of Leadership and Development, NHS England and Deputy Chair of the Health and Care Women Leaders Network.  Hi Tracey. 

TRACEY :         Hello Rosie, lovely to be here. 

ROSIE :             And Chris Truscott, Programme Manager, Mental Health Network and Heath and Care LGBTQ+ Leaders Network and co-chair of the LGBTQ+ Staff Group from the NHS Confederation.  Hi Chris. 

CHRIS :             Hi Rosie. 

ROSIE:              And Inclusive Employers’ Addie, Inclusion Expert and Director of Impact at Inclusive Employers.  Hi Addie. 

ADDIE:             Hi Rosie. 

ROSIE:              Before we discuss the ways we can empower our colleagues in inclusion, Addie, I’d like to speak to you about the importance of this daily action.  Can you tell us what this daily action is all about? 

ADDIE:             So, the daily action for today is take action and empower your employees.  The important thing to remember on this and indeed, any part of National Inclusion Week, is that it doesn’t matter where you are as an organisation in your inclusion journey.  Everybody, whether you’re right at the start, you haven’t really thought about this at all before, to organisations who’ve got a much more established strategy and activities underway, there are always going to be ways to develop and improve your employee empowerment, and that’s what we’re going to be looking at today. 

ROSIE:              One of the main ways we see our members empower their staff and hear their staff voice is through staff networks, staff network groups.  A staff network can take lots of different forms, and in many organisations, it is a staff led group of people that have a shared characteristic or a shared experience who come together and they want to share their lived experience, they want to share some of the challenges that come with workplaces with that lived experience, and they want to help drive the organisation to be more inclusive every day.  

                        So, I’m going to come to one of our guests today, Tracey.  Hi Tracey, could you tell us about why staff networks are important?

TRACEY:          So, we all know that staff networks are really pivotal in relation to making improvements across organisations.  So I’m the Deputy Chair of the Health and Care Women Leaders Network, and our membership is about 2,500 women across health and care, and our Chair is Sam Allen, the Chief Executive of NHS North East and North Cumbria Integrated Care Board.  My experience of being in organisations are that if we are able to hear from our staff about what’s working, what’s not working, what’s good, what their experiences are, how things can be improved, we’re on a continuous cycle of being able to improve if we listen to people.  If we hear what they’re saying and we listen to them about their concerns, about their thoughts because most people come to work wanting to do a really good job, you know, and across health and social care people come to work because they’re passionate about the work that they do and they have values that drive them in the workplace.  

                        So, staff networks really have come about because of a recognition that if you engage with your staff, and you engage well with your staff, it delivers dividends for the organisation, you know, often times the top and the bottom of big organisations are quite a distance away from each other, and staff networks can shorten that distance and make sure that we’re listening well to people, we’re responding to their concerns and creating environments in which everybody can thrive.  And in the NHS, of course, it maintains patients’ safety and makes sure that patient outcomes are as good as they can be. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic, I really did like what you said there about listening and actually, you know, if we have this group of people that are passionate about their outcomes then why would we not want to hear all of their voices to drive that success?  Tracey, are there any limitations to staff networks? 

TRACEY:          There are, I think that staff networks are made up of people that are usually drawn together for a particular purpose.  It might be an identity network, so the Health and Care Women Leaders Network, for instance, is for women, all women.  It might be an LGBT network or a disability network.  Whatever it is, there’ll be a common experience that people are having within the workplace, and sometimes those experiences are really challenging.  So, we’ve just not long ago had a report about sexual safety amongst surgeons, it was quite harrowing to read and, you know, people’s experiences really matter because of course nobody wants to tolerate discrimination and poor treatment of staff because when you treat people poorly it makes them ill and unproductive in the workplace.   

                        So, some of the reasons why staff networks exist around common themes and identities are the very reasons why sometimes we can see that staff networks don’t quite work in the way that we would hope that they would do, and that’s not because of the staff networks themselves, but the environments in which we’re asking staff to speak up about stuff that may be really difficult to talk about.  It may be about discrimination and poor treatment, and we will all know that when we are on the receiving end of discrimination or poor treatment, part of how that makes us feel is that we’re not safe, and therefore, speaking about it can feel really risky, it can be anxiety provoking, it can be a really quite terrifying thought when you’re feeling depleted and weathered by what you’re experiencing.  So, there’s a bit of a dilemma there in the sense that we’re often asking staff networks or members of staff networks to speak about things, for instance, we’ve got the Workforce Race Equality Standard scores and the Workforce Disability Equality Standard scores which tell us that things aren’t as we would like them to be in the NHS.  

                        And so asking staff networks to speak about what it’s like for them on a daily basis can retraumatise people, it can subject people to talking about things that are really difficult and painful.  And if we’re relying on staff networks to give us that information it can become a bit of a burden for the people that we’re claiming to be doing this work in service of, because it shouldn’t be down to staff networks to highlight what the problems are.  Our organisations and our boards should be aware that if the RES scores are telling us something, or the WDES scores are telling us something, the staff surveys are telling us something, that something needs to be addressed in the organisation, and we do need to create psychologically safe spaces in which people can speak up.  

                        And there’s that saying, isn’t there that people don’t leave their jobs, they often leave their managers, and if that’s the case then when people are speaking up about their experience in the workplace and that experience isn’t overwhelmingly positive, the likelihood is that their manager may well be saying something, doing something, it’s about their manager’s practice that is having an impact on them.  And it’s really difficult if the person that you then need to go and raise something with in relation to their practice is your manager, you know?  It can be career limiting, people know what the risks are associated with that.  So, I think that there is some sensitivity really that’s needed around how we utilise our staff networks and what we’re expecting from people, because if it’s not psychologically safe then it’s not conducive to asking people to speak up, so the culture really matters. 

ROSIE:              Absolutely, that’s so important, Tracey, that we are really expecting a lot of people who, you know, there’s a reason why they’re in a staff network, often they’ve been through a lot in life, and really for us as an employer to say, “We’re an inclusive employer but then we’re going to put you in a really difficult position.”  I think there’s a disconnect there sometimes, isn’t there?  So, we’ve got to really tread carefully where we are enabling people to feel safe to be able to make the organisation better, but not burdening them with that as well.  So, yes, thank you for sharing that.  

                        Addie, we must support so many staff networks here at Inclusive Employers, what kind of support do they often need? 

ADDIE:             So, something that we see that’s quite common, and I think some of it happens as a result of how networks often appear in organisations, you know, it will be someone who’s keen, someone who cares about it will say, “Oh, could I run a staff network for X?”  And the organisation goes, “Oh, yeah, good idea, lovely, off you go.”  And then over time it becomes these sorts of, you know, self-organised groups and people kind of trying to do what they can and trying to make an impact.  And obviously, building on Tracey’s point, there’s often something driving that, it isn’t just about personal kind of passion or identity, but it’s also about experiences they may have had and not wanting others to have the same.  

                        So, it can be quite heavy, and what’s really interesting is that if you think about a staff network as a working group or a team of people, it’s very rare in any organisation that you would let a group just sort of organically grow and then you would leave it without any training or support or frameworks and expect it to somehow be effective.  We don’t do that with any other area of an organisation, but there’s a bit of a weird thinking around inclusion, I suppose.  But if you think about it in terms of that as a kind of business objective, you wouldn’t ask someone to just run a project team who doesn’t have that training or those competencies or that understanding because you’re setting them up to fail, and then it’s not going to be effective, but that’s often what happens with networks.   

                        What we’re increasingly seeing is organisations kind of seeing this and realising this or we’re advising them and getting them to kind of see that that’s a gap, and kind of think about it as if it is because it is a working group as part of the day to day work of the organisation.  It’s not this sort of fluffy, nice to have on the side of things, and then with that mindset you can go, okay, what skills do these people need in this group so that they actually can be effective?  What do we need to do as an organisation?  What sort of governance or structures do we need to build around that so that the work of this group is genuinely effective, so that it’s a good use of time and so that we actually get what everyone wants from it?  

                        That’s often overlayed as well, not always, but often the people who are in staff networks can often be more junior or they’re not towards the top of the organisation, they’re not often in leadership positions.  So, the sort of skills you need around thinking strategically, influencing upwards, building a network, like not the staff network but like a network of people across the business, they haven’t learnt that yet, they haven’t worked that out, and yet we sort of plonk them in these positions and expect them to sort of magically do something.  One of the things that we’ve developed over time in kind of recognition of that kind of skills gap, and it’s no fault of anybody, it’s because people are coming into networks because they’re driven by what they care about, it’s not necessarily aligned with their professional goals, is our Staff Networks Academy.

                        So, our Staff Networks Academy is a training programme for staff network leads, and it essentially equips them to be really effective and to do what they want to do because they’re incredibly driven by passion and enthusiasm, and get that working in terms of how the organisation functions so they can really be effective and they can actually make the change that they want to make and that the organisation hopefully wants to make as well.  So, it equips them with things like how do you actually run a good quality meeting?  How do you make sure these things are effective?  How do you distribute work amongst people?  How do you influence across the business?  How do you influence upwards and get kind of sponsors and people to sort of help you open doors for you as a network?  

                        And also, how to manage your wellbeing because it can be very personal, work, you know, it’s associated with who you are as an individual, experiences that you may have had, and also because you’re often, if you’re in a network and anyone listening to this who’s been in one or is in one will probably recognise this, because it comes from so deep within you in terms of your values, it can be quite easy to push yourself too hard and to burn yourself out.  So, building in protection and boundaries around that to help people manage those things to learn when they need to let something go, when they need to share, when they need to get help, all of those things is really crucial.  And we also build in evaluation after the programmes are sort of shortly after and then kind of longer term kind of snapshots to actually see, did it make a difference, you know, did the impact we want to have happen actually happened?  Which then also helps with the organisation seeing okay, this is worth the investment of time, it is being effective, it is helping us make the changes we want.  

                        Another element that we see is that clients who are looking to sort of formally recognise network efforts, so that kind of recognition will vary in different organisations.  Some organisations will, if you’re part of a network or if you’re a network chair, will give you a set amount of your time, your contracted time to spend on the network, for instance, so they’ll kind of slice out a bit of your week.  Some of it is recognition more in seeing it as part of your professional development and it can be a way for you to kind of super charge elements of what you want to do to grow and learn.  

                        And something else we’re seeing is kind of formal recognition of those efforts by offering our CMI Level 4 Inclusion qualification, which is a couple of days, it’s a Chartered Management Institute accredited qualification, and it’s a formal certificate, it’s something that people can put on their CV and LinkedIn and all that kind of thing.  And as well as obviously being a really valuable learning, it shows that investment on behalf of the organisation in the network, they’re, you know, putting their money where their mouth is, and people are then benefiting from it.  And obviously as with all these things, the return on investment in networks can be huge, you know, from a grand scheme of things as an organisation, if you actually put a bit of time, a bit of effort, a bit of money, the ripple effects of that are massive.  Our members will obviously access support from us all the time from their account managers talking about networks and how to make them effective, and we’ve got our guide to staff networks, which is free for all of our members as well, which is a nice little... tips and tricks, things to think about to make sure your networks are working as best they can. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic, yeah.  I’ll pick up on a few really important points that you said there, Addie, you know, the skills; I think we have a big expectation on people to just know how to do things, and we train, we’ve got many NHS colleagues with us today who will have trained for years for their professions and to gain those skills.  To be an occupational therapist or a physiotherapist you go, and you get trained in that, but then all the skills that come with networks, we often don’t think you need training in them and that isn’t the case, and we do see that the more you invest the more you get out of these groups of people.  And really, it’s only inclusive in its sense that, you know, if you invest in people they invest in you back, that’s what inclusion is all about, right, so it has to apply to staff networks as well. 

                        Cheryl, tell me, how does your ENABLED Staff Network support inclusion of disabled staff throughout the trust? 

CHERYL :          So, Newcastle Hospitals employs over 16,000 staff and is one of the largest, busiest, and most successful Teaching NHS Foundations in the country.  With regards to the staff networks, they were formulated in 2015, we have three staff networks, and I Co-Chair the ENABLED Staff Network and I’ve done that since 2018.  We use the staff networks to offer all of our staff with protected characteristics a voice and to ensure that they have an inclusive experience within Newcastle Hospitals.  The ENABLED Staff Network meets frequently with various members of staff who are within the network, and we offer them the opportunity to tell us their experiences, and we advocate on behalf of them.  We’re very fortunate in Newcastle to have an Exec sponsor as part of the ENABLED staff network, and that enables our voice to be channelled right to the top.  I think sometimes people feel sharing their experiences is futile, but we’re obviously listening, and that message is being transferred as high up as possible and influencing change.  

                        Newcastle Hospitals is a disability confident employer, and a lot of the staff who have got say, for instance, various disabilities share their experience via... we have stalls, we have different ways of showcasing different experiences to broaden their experience of other members of staff who are maybe less aware of what it’s like to live with a long term health condition or a disability.  In terms of inclusion, I think it’s really important that individuals with a disability or a long term health condition feel empowered to be really understood within the workforce, you know, we are looking to promote change and provide an inclusive culture within Newcastle Hospitals.  I think sometimes people view a disability as a negative, but certainly the voices that I’m listening to are demonstrating, say for instance, from a neurodiversity perspective that they come with their own set of very unique skills.  So, it’s about really empowering people to feel proud of who they are as opposed to feeling somewhat disgruntled because they have a long term health condition or a disability. 

ROSIE:              Great.  Can you touch upon the surge in the number of staff joining staff networks across the health and social care sector during the pandemic, how did the Trust respond to this? 

CHERYL :          It’s really difficult to reflect upon numbers if I’m completely honest with you, I don’t know how many people joined during the COVID outbreak.  From a personal perspective, I was shielding and like most of the network members, went through a very difficult time.  We used the network as a platform to meet virtually, and we reached out to as many people as we could.  It was very sad to see so many people that were struggling, but the network offered that communication channel and allies who were in similar situations, you know, we’ve all heard that cliche, we’re in the same storm but very different boats, and I think the network was a place where people could come in their various boats and talk about their experiences with no judgment. 

ROSIE:              So, moving onto Chris, tell us about the NHS Confederation, the LGBTQ+ Network.  Have you received any training or support like Addie mentioned? 

CHRIS:              Yes, what Addie was saying really resonated with me because I very much found myself as Co-Chair of our staff group by happenstance, and I think leadership probably recognised that I was muddling through a little bit and that there was an offer needed for me and the other Chairs of our other EDI groups as a sort of recognition of our roles.  So, we had a years’ worth of coaching very much on that leadership piece; none of us were leaders in our roles day to day, and a lot of the skills you were talking about there, Addie, we were equipped with, and far more comfortable to have those senior conversations, those difficult conversations.  And I do wonder now a little bit if our HR director regrets sort of empowering us with quite so much autonomy, but certainly our staff groups are better for it.  

ROSIE:              Fantastic.  So, you and the other Chairs obviously had this training, tell us a bit more about the wider network, how have you empowered LGBTQ staff across the Confederation to get involved? 

CHRIS:              Sure, I’ll start with a little bit more about the Confed, so NHS Confederation is a membership organisation, it helps empower and support health care organisations to improve population health, deliver high quality care and reduce health inequalities.  And as the name suggests we’re kind of confederated, so there are many branches to what we do, we host NHS employers and the race and health observatory, and we have a number of dedicated networks for different parts of the healthcare landscape.  So, for example, I’m in the Mental Health Network, and we represent all the Trusts in England, third sector and independent sector and make mental health services better for all.  We have offices in London, Leeds, Wales, and Northern Ireland with over 200 employees across those offices, so bringing people together for a staff group can often be a bit of a challenge, and I don’t actually think we’ve ever managed to be in the same room at the same time in the three years that we’ve had a group running.  

                        So, where we’re at in our inclusion journey as an organisation, I’d say we were in a pretty good place, inclusion is high on the agenda and the organisation as a whole is getting much better at challenging where inclusion is missing.  So, in the mental health network we won’t go for an all white, or all male panel in our events, we try and have lived experience, so it’s very much built into the ethos of our work.  There is a way to go with inclusion I think for us in sort of pushing through those challenging moments and making sure inclusion is meaningful.  So, our recruitment panels have to have someone from one of the staff groups represented, and that can still feel a little bit tokenistic at the moment especially when you’re just given maybe the EDI question.  And I think there’s a bit of a lack of understanding of experience across our other staff groups and the experiences of colleagues there, so we have a BME and a Disability Inclusion Group, which also includes carers.  

                        But I feel quite fortunate where we are; I’ve spoken with other staff network chairs across the country, and I think we’re in quite a unique position because a lot of what we need and ask for, we get, and I don’t think that’s always the case.  So, I asked for Stonewall Membership, and we got it; I didn’t ask for funding, but we were just given it, and so I have to try not to be too smug about it, but I’m quite pleased with where we are with that.  We have a little bit further to go I think on trans inclusion, the appetite is there for it, but we’re yet to draft the appropriate policies, but there is like a firm commitment from our senior leadership and colleagues are showing allyship across the organisation. 

                        So, on how we’ve empowered staff, I think one of the unique things about our staff group is that it informally links through to our LGBTQ Leaders Network.  So, Tracey mentioned that she’s Vice Chair of the Women Leaders, we also have one for LGBTQ Leaders, and I programme managed that network and our staff group Co-Chair, Dr Layla McCay, who’s also a Director of Policy, she’s the Executive Lead for that group, so there’s quite an unusual link between sort of the internal work we do and the external work we do around LGBTQ+ inclusion.  So, the Leaders Network has a little bit more resource and expertise behind it so there’s quite a nice way to sort of... a two way channel for information sharing, so we’re able to bring some of that research back that we do in the Leaders Network and really employ it internally as well.  And we’re able to draw on staff lived experience internally to kind of inform some of the work we might do externally as well, and staff are great at championing some of that external work internally as well, so you can kind of see it goes backwards and forwards quite well, it’s very mutually beneficial.  

                        I think one of the key ways that we empower staff is to create a space where they can be open and honest about their experiences, both inside and outside of work.  Building that trust doesn’t come quickly and I think it has to come with the commitment to act on anything raised, and we very much do that and that’s where we have those challenging conversations with our leadership and we’re lucky to have a direct line to our leadership through a few ways.  We have an EDI Commission where all our staff groups meet with the Deputy Chief Executive and the HR Director, and we can really talk about what’s going on on the ground, and I think that’s where we can get leaders to understand experience in work, but also sort of enlighten them a bit on what the environment is like externally for us as well.  They’re not always clear societally, like what is impacting a particular group, and it’s really helpful to grow their understanding.  

                        There’s the usual stuff as well, you know, we have polices run past us, we make sure they’re inclusive, we make sure they serve all staff, and we use our collective voice.  We’re a decent sized group, we’re represented across a decent number of levels in terms of seniority so we’re able to speak with authority, be respected and listened to.  So, we have quite a good position, I think. 

ROSIE:              Thanks Chris, it was really interesting what you were saying about the network kind of sharing and being interlinked across the different Trusts and with the Leaders Groups as well.  There must be a lot of benefit in being able to share so many stories from different parts of the NHS.  How do you empower people to sort of feel safe to come forward and share that information when it might not be just with their own Trust or their own kind of trusted people? 

CHRIS:              Yes, I think it’s about that reassurance that what you say is going to be listened to and acted on, and I think I should share a recent event that we did here at Confed.  In our group we had been discussing what we call... well, my colleague, Lee, calls ‘yikes moments,’ so you know, when someone says something, makes you take that sudden deep breath and go, ergh, and it’s usually quite light-hearted and it is people just being a bit thoughtless or clumsy with their language.  But as we kind of discussed it as a group, it started this domino of examples, and we were like, oh, this is happening a lot and across the organisation, and actually, these are a bit more serious than just like yikes moments, these are like full on microaggressions, and sometimes, you know, even something that’s a little bit more serious than that.  So, we reached out to our other staff groups, the BME staff group and the Disability Inclusion group and asked them, you know, is something similar happening from your perspective?  And the answer was yes, so we realised there was a conversation we needed to have with the organisation.  

                        I think we also knew when you sort of stick it in a meeting in everyone’s diaries that says microaggression session suddenly there’s a lot of clashes and people can’t turn up and the excuses come.  So, we snuck onto our all staff meeting, which is a regular meeting that I would say 80 percent of the organisation attends every month.  So, we were like, please don’t release the agenda until a day before the meeting, and it worked, there was a lot of people there and we shared why we were running this session, examples of what microaggressions look like across the different groups.  And it turned out to be an incredibly... probably the most engaged we’ve seen staff for as long as I’ve been attending those meetings, and I’ve been five years.  Great conversations, you know, the chat blew up, hands were up, people were asking questions, and since then we’ve heard people talking about additional conversations they’ve had, the long term impact of thinking about this and sort of what triggers a microaggression, how to spot it and how to respond to it.  So, people are far more confident in acknowledging it, but also accepting that challenge as well, which is great, and there’s going to be a lasting legacy from that which I’m incredibly proud of. 

                        We also released a lot of content as a staff group, we’ve got like blogs for days, we’ve got a library of resources that includes a lot of staff stories, and we created a video for IDAHOBIT, which is the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia, Transphobia and Intersexism, which highlighted lived experience of quite serious discrimination staff have faced.  And it was obviously not an easy video to create, a sort of pick your favourite worst moments to share with your colleagues, but yet again it’s had real impact, it really opens peoples’ eyes to what life can be like, and we now use that as part of our staff induction so people are upfront, they can see that we’re putting our money where our mouth is.  We’ve bought LGBTQ Trustees of the Confed into our staff meetings, and we’ve invited the group Exec in so they can really see those stories first hand and have those open and serious conversation.  

                        And we’ve joined forces with our other staff groups again and we’re creating an animation, often like that lived experience when you share it, obviously people move on, and it feels like it can be dated because that person’s not around anymore.  So, we decided to sort of pull a really baseline level of learning together for the organisation that creates a line in the sand, I suppose of the basic things you should know about these different staff groups, and it’s animated and it’s in a voiceover from someone who’s not in the organisation, so it feels like it will have a much longer life, and we’re really excited to share that and for that to be an educational piece for years to come. 

ROSIE:              Brilliant.  It sounds like you’re really making some kind of structural changes there, you know, videos at induction, making sure leaders are more equipped as well, and also, you know, you may have gone about it in a sneaky way to get that microaggressions thing in, but I respect that.  I respect that you seized the opportunity to educate people there, and what I really like, Chris, is you mentioned within the LGBTQ+ group maybe trans inclusion isn’t as far along as some of the other areas, but that acknowledgment and just knowing that there is still work to do and you’re going to face into it, and you know, you’re going to include those people is so important.  Because with each of these groups it isn’t one experience, you know, LGBTQ+ is obviously so many different experiences, same with race networks, so many different experiences, women’s networks, like not all people in a women’s network will be the same.  So, it's acknowledging that it might not all be moving in the same timeline, but that you know where the areas are that kind of need that extra push or education for the different groups as well.  So, that’s really helpful, thank you, Chris.  

                        I’m going to come back to Tracey, tell us about the Health and Care Women’s Leaders Network and how it supports NHS organisations to set up their own women’s networks. 

TRACEY:          So, as a network we aim to be a strong and influential voice for all women working across health and care.  We advocate, support, champion and inspire each other, and we run a range of events including workshops, an annual conference in November, annual celebration on International Women’s Day on the 8th of March, for example, and we host the Network of Women’s Networks, which connects Chairs and leads of Women’s Networks across NHS organisations to inspire and motivate each other and share ideas and learning. 

ROSIE:              Thanks Tracey, that sounds like a really fantastic way of bringing people together, and very similar to what Chris was saying.  Is that something that one network has influenced the other, or is it something that’s across the whole NHS, Chris? 

CHRIS:              Yes, very much the LGBTQ Leaders Network stole the Network of Networks idea is such a fantastic forum.  It allows people who work very disparately across the entire country to come together and offer that peer support, and I know that the BME Leadership Network is also setting one up as well, so it’s an excellent seed of an idea that is continually growing. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic.  So, there you go, Tracey, you know, changing things for the Women’s Networks but changing in the landscape there for all the networks as well.  Tell us a little bit more about what support the Women’s Networks get from the Leader’s Network that you run. 

TRACEY:          So, our main priorities are focused on women’s health, women’s safety, flexible working, reducing the gender pay gap, empowering women into senior and board level positions within health and care, and supporting our members with their personal and professional development.  So, the network focuses on all of these issues and what we do is we have meetings once a quarter with the Network of Networks.  Network members connect through in person and virtual events, master classes and Tweet chats, and share learning through case studies, blogs, videos, and key reports.  Every year we have an annual meeting of the network, and as I mentioned before, we meet for International Women’s Day and usually run an event for International Women’s Day.  And I think people in terms of feedback, you know, the women in our network have fed back things like it’s really good to be able to share our experiences, just like Chris and Addie have been talking about staff networks generally, it’s really great to know that we’re not alone.  

                        It’s a space in which we can talk about what matters to us, it’s a space in which we can seek advice and insight and wisdom into any workplace concern that we might have or anything that we really do need some encouragement with, and it’s a place for sisterhood.  You know, I use that word very deliberately because the NHS is over 80 percent women and sometimes, we over rely on representation at all levels as the panacea to some of our EDI ills across the system, and you know, being over 80 percent women in terms of the representation of the workforce and then having a report about sexual safety in the workplace tells us that representation isn’t it.  It isn’t the panacea for some of the EDI challenges that we have.  So, the network really recognises this and recognises that women are a broad church, so there are women who are lesbian women, there are women who are non-binary women, there are women who are trans women, there are women who are BME women, there’s lots of different women.  

                        So, the reach of the network is really, really, really broad, as are all the other networks, and I think because of that we’re very mindful in listening to our members about what matters to them, and on sexual safety, the Health and Care Women Leaders Network had asked for a question to be included in the NHS staff survey on sexual safety and that was included.  So, that’s one of the small victories but a big impact potentially so that the staff network can pick up issues around sexual safety in the workplace, which is one of our priorities for our network members.  But most importantly, and I think, you know, both Chris and Addie have alluded to this, it’s really important that people have spaces in which they can talk about what’s important to them, and you know, the network certainly tries to create a climate and an environment, as Chris has described in relation to the LGBTQ+ Confed Network, where people feel that they are taken seriously, they can speak about things that they might not be able to speak about elsewhere, and they’re listened to and respected and supported. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic.  It fills me with joy to hear about how intersectional the networks are, it really does, because it isn’t the case in all organisations, some really struggle to make that, but it definitely is the best way of going about it and the most inclusive way to do so.  So, you mentioned a couple of barriers to women, particularly within the NHS, you know, we’ve had the recent news reports around sexual safety, you mentioned things like pay gap.  So, there’s quite a lot of big challenges, these aren’t small things, are they?  They’re really fundamental day to day life things.  If we have other public sector organisations that are listening to this podcast, do you have any tips of how to operate a network within the public sector?  What tips would you give them? 

TRACEY:          Well, there’s quite a few things really.  I’d say as a network be open and transparent.  We host a thriving network of Women’s Networks with over 60 NHS organisations represented, and over 100 individual members. The real achievement is that we meet together, and we are building relationship together and we are really united in purpose.  We facilitate them coming together to share ideas and initiatives and provide support for each other, and we really want to keep it real.  I would say make sure that your network leads by example, be transparent and authentic in your network outputs, which creates trust and credibility, and our network is a movement that aims to inspire, encourage, and motivate our members to champion and support each other, sharing common challenges in what they have learned and experienced.  I’d say build a coalition of support. 

                        We have built an effective basis for building relationships with a range of stakeholders, including our sister EDI Networks at NHS Confederation, through our network of Women’s Networks, and external networks such as the NHS Muslim Women’s Network, for example, and this has helped us to amplify our message and reach new members.  I’d say encourage honest feedback, it’s not always easy to listen to feedback when it’s very honest and it’s about something that we need to change, but we’ve always been open and non-defensive about that.  We’re a network that’s here for our members, so we gather and listen to and encourage feedback from our members to promote open communication and respect their views.  And I’d say this is perhaps the most important point, and that’s embrace diversity and inclusion, live the values that you say you want to see.  

                        We’re an intersectional network, we talk about intersectionality constantly, and we recognise that our members have very many different identities.  We foster an inclusive environment that welcomes diverse perspectives and backgrounds, and we’re not afraid to have some of the conversations that may be a little bit more difficult for people to have, and I think particularly around challenging some of the accepted behaviours that perhaps a system shouldn’t be so tolerant of at times, and also naming some of those things.  And I just particularly remember a conversation that we had with network colleagues around some of the undiscussables in the workplace, some of the themes that are emerging like anti-blackness in the workplace, not a common conversation.  We talk about trans women and trans women’s experiences, and that’s something that we really want to support going forward.  We talk about poor women, you know, and some of the people in our organisations that are paid the least and often invisible, and how we might amplify those voices.  So, we’re very mindful of the fact that the people who are heard the most are often not the people that we need to hear from the most and, you know, operating like that in the network is a sure foundation I think for helping to grow a thriving network, as described by Addie earlier, and making sure that our members get value from being part of the Health and Care Women Leaders Network. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic.  Tracey, you make me want to be part of the network, unfortunately, I’m not part of the NHS so I can’t be, but I never joined a Women’s Network in any of my previous employers, although I identify as a woman, because they weren’t like this.  I didn’t feel they represented all women and that didn’t sit comfortably with me, so yes, it’s really empowering I think to hear that that is happening and hopefully other people listening to today’s podcast as well can really take that on board and think, yes, we can do this, we can represent all when it comes to it, whether it be a women’s network, LGBTQ, disability, race networks, you know, there is a way to make it really empowering however you identify. 

TRACEY:          Sorry, Rosie, can I just add to that comment, because I think you’ve said something really important about people wanting to be part of networks?  In order for people to want to be part of networks they need to feel as though the network represents them, the network represents their views and their voice and the concerns that they have, and the things that they want to do in the world.  As we spoke earlier about, you know, people joining networks because of the values that they have because of what they want to see in the world, you know, it’s always very future focused in relation to people joining networks.  

                        I am very familiar, Rosie, with some of the flimflammery that you just described around women’s networks in the past, you know, I remember being part of a network that I left because they were going to have a handbag day, you know, and I thought what’s handbags got to do with sexual safety in the workplace or racism in the workplace, or all of those kinds of things?  And I think there’s something about relevance, and there’s something about really understanding what is pertinent today for the workforce today, you know, looking at the concerns today.  Increasingly, I think networks are leaning towards really thinking about how they can advocate on a broader level for things that are intersectional, you know, particularly around identity, but if we think of climate change, for example, you know, and how that intersects with all of our lives and is so important for us to get right.  

                        So, networks are places in which we can also share information and inform each other about stuff that is beyond the remit of the network, and I think that’s the beauty of it, and that’s the beauty of creating the cultures within networks where people can learn as well as share experiences and just be together and support one another, and be human beings together, humanising the workplace for each other. 

ROSIE:              Cheryl, I offer the same question to you.  

CHERYL :           I can’t emphasise enough the difference it’s made and the change that we’re seeing at Newcastle Hospitals having lots of people within our Enabled Staff Network speak about their lived experience, certainly from our COVID experience, it raises the profile of the individuals who have disabilities and long term health conditions and how challenging the working environment can actually be.  Certainly, within our hospital what we talk about all of the time is how we safeguard our patients, but actually what’s fundamental at the very beginning of all of this is how we safeguard our staff and safeguard one another.  You know, if we’re not looking after ourselves then obviously that impacts how we look after our patients.  The lived experience message is fundamental in people getting that message loud and clear, and it’s very authentic, and, certainly what I’m saying is the more people feel empowered, the more they are actually sharing their story.  And obviously as I mentioned earlier, we’ve got this exec sponsor now who is channelling all of our messages higher, so it doesn’t feel like they’re falling upon people who are not listening to our very important message. 

                        Inclusion is absolutely fundamental so that we ensure that we facilitate change and promote inclusion within Newcastle Hospitals and all of our Health Care Trusts.  We all have a voice, and we all have a story, and it’s important that that’s listened to.  The importance of inclusion work can’t be emphasised enough, it’s fundamental that everybody is given the opportunity to have a platform to share their lived experience and that they recognise that their message and their story is truly heard. 

ROSIE:              So much great advice there if you wanted to set up a network or maybe reenergise your network in some way.  I’d like to also come to our other contributors, Addie, and Chris, to see if you have any kind of top tips or advice.  Addie, do you have anything you would to know, a network that’s maybe struggling to kind of know or a new network, what would your advice be? 

ADDIE:             So, I think we see this quite often where, you know, people have got excited, they’ve set a network up, they’re raring to go, and then they don’t know what to do or they don’t know what to do first.  So, what will often happen is they’ll have a nice long list of activities they want to do, like 200 things on it that they want to do in the next 12 months, and without sort of advice and wise guidance they can often try to do 200 things in a year and then it doesn’t happen.  So, what we advise is really thinking about, as you would really with any other aspect of kind of change in an organisation, where do you want to get to?  So, what does success look like?  You know, a good success measure isn’t we’ve done two events in a year because that’s just a to do list.  What’s your vision?  What’s it going to feel like in three years’ time if you’ve done the things you need to do?  

                        So, doing that first, aligning that with wider organisational values and success measures and visions is really helpful because it helps you work out where you fit and how you can contribute to it.  And then work out what you want to do and always start small, it’s much better to do fewer things well and make a difference than to do lots of things not very well because you’ve bitten off more than you can chew, and then it’s never quite up to the standard that you wanted it to be and you’ve missed an opportunity to make a real positive impact.  So, it’s about... again, it’s kind of like what I was saying earlier, approach it as you would any other bit of work, think about what you want to achieve, what are your success measures going to be and what’s actually going to be doable in the time, and how do you make sure it’s up to the right standard that you want it to be up to. 

ROSIE:              Fantastic, and that and what Tracey was saying actually both really link to the National Inclusion Week theme Take Action Make Impact, yes, so it’s all about, you know, Tracey mentioned quite a few times how is it relevant for today, right now?  Take action right now, but also if we’re going to make impacts, we can’t do 200 things, we would love to make impact with all of them, but there’s only so many hours in the day, and all of us have other priorities and other things we need to do as well.  So, really focusing on what is it we can do that’s relevant for today and how are we going to make impact with that particular action or actions?

                        Chris, any top tips from you? 

CHRIS:              Yes, I totally agree with what Addie has said there, I often think about the staff group a bit like Sisyphus pushing that boulder up the hill, like it never ends.  When you start out you might as well make that boulder as small as you possibly can because it’s a long journey, there are no quick fixes, like you can have quick wins in the short term, but you’re on a long term journey and eventually you are probably going to hand over that responsibility to other people.  So, again you would like to give them as small a boulder as possible if you’re handing that on.  I totally agree with Tracey around securing your allies, you can’t possibly do it all alone, and actually what you need is champions who will do some of that emotional labour for you as well, especially when you’re asking staff to kind of dig deep and share experience and talk about difficult things, you want strong champions to lighten that load a little bit.  

                        And I think the only other thing would be to sort of be clear on what you want, be bold enough to ask for it, but also be savvy enough to create the business case for it, the evidence base for it, and then you can confidently deliver that to the people that have the levers of power and they can give you the things that you need, but they’re not always going to be just be like here is a budget, you know, you have to show why the budget is needed. 

ROSIE:              And finally, can we just ask you, how else is NHS employers supporting organisations to create more inclusive workplace cultures? 

CHRIS:              Well, alongside the work of our Health and Care LGBTQ+ Leaders Network and Women Leaders Network, and BME Leadership Network, we also have a Diversity in Health and Care Partners Programme.  So, this supports health and care organisations to create more inclusive workplace cultures where uniqueness of beliefs, backgrounds and ways of living are welcome and celebrated.  The programme is run annually and it’s open to organisations inside and outside the NHS, so if there’s anyone listening that’s interested in joining a future cohort, you can find details on the NHS employers’ website at nhsemployers.org or you can just Google Diversity in Health and Care Partners Programme.

ROSIE:              Absolutely, so if we’ve got any senior leaders listening to this podcast then, you know, listen to what Chris says, we need your support, staff networks need those champions who can open doors, also who don’t share the identity of the group so that they can carry some of that emotional load sometimes and you know, maybe have the keys to the purse sometimes as well.  We know that within the public sector and at the moment, you know, a lot of organisations are really struggling financially, a little bit of money can go a long way, so really thinking about what impact are we going to make.  How much do we need to do that and working with those senior leaders to enable you to get that money where you need it as well.  

                        That brings us to the end of today’s podcast, so thank you so much to all of the contributors on today’s session.  I found it really enjoyable listening to all of your experiences, and it would definitely make me want to join a network, so I’m sure it has everybody who’s listening to today’s podcast.  For more information about National Inclusion Week visit Inclusive Employers website at inclusiveemployers.co.uk  When you register you will gain access to a free place on our dedicated National Inclusion Week webinars, a comprehensive toolkit with support and guidance and much more.  Remember to follow the campaign on social media and use the hashtag #TakeActionMakeImpact and #NationalInclusionWeek2023, and please tag Inclusive Employers.  

Outtro :           You’ve been listening to Talking Inclusion with Rosie Clarke.  If you’ve enjoyed listening to this podcast, then please subscribe and leave a review from wherever you get your podcasts.  Find out more about Inclusive Employers at inclusiveemployers.co.uk