Europeans at the First Battle of Bull Run (Manassas) with (Ryan Diamond)

Europeans at the First Battle of Bull Run (First Manassas) with (Ryan  Diamond)

In this episode of American Civil War & UK History Podcast, host Daz is joined by fellow American Civil War Round-Table UK member Ryan Diamond to explore the role of Europeans at the First Battle of Bull Run (First Manassas). Together, they discuss the experiences of European-born soldiers who fought on both sides of the conflict, their motivations for serving, and the impact they had during the first major battle of the American Civil War.

The First Battle of Bull Run (First Manassas), fought on 21 July 1861, included thousands of European-born soldiers on both the Union and Confederate sides. Many were recent immigrants from Ireland, Germany, England, Scotland, France, and other nations who had settled in America before the war. They served in both ethnic regiments and mixed units, bringing valuable military experience and playing an important role in the first major battle of the American Civil War.

ACW & UK History's Website.
https://www.acwandukhistory.com/

ACW & UK History's Pages.
https://linktr.ee/ACWandUKHISTORY

Transcript

Copy

SPEAKER_01 0:00

To keep up to date with everything of American Civil War and UK history, head over to our website ACW and UK History.com. And remember, this podcast has a PowerPoint presentation that goes along with the show. So if you would like to see the PowerPoint presentation, then head over to our YouTube channel at American Civil War and UK History. Cheers. Hello everyone, I'm Daz and welcome to American Civil War and UK History Podcast. This presentation is available as a video on our YouTube channel or as a podcast from wherever you get your podcast from. And if you're watching on YouTube, remember to hit the subscribe button and give us a big thumbs up. And uh check out our website at www.acwandukhistory.com where you'll find podcasts, blog posts, and links to all of our social media pages. It is also available in the podcast subscription. And joining me today is a fellow round table member and a very good friend of mine, Ryan Diamond. Welcome, Ryan. Good afternoon. How are you? Very well, thank you, Ryan. Okay, so in this episode, we are going to be discussing Europeans' involvement at the Battle of Firstball Run slash Manassas, depending on where you're from. Um, but firstly, Ryan, it is the first time for you on the podcast. So I would like to know is could you tell everyone how firstly you became interested in history in general, but in particular the American Civil War?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Oh, yikes. Um I um I think I've always been interested in history from even being a small child. Um, I think the first two books my mother ever bought for me that were not Lidybird reading books were the children's history of the American Revolution and the Children's History of the Civil War. Um, and that was then only reinforced by some terrible black and white movies, the most historically inaccurate black and white movies imaginable. Errol Flynn, um, Ronald Reagan. Um imagine my surprise at reading some proper history and finding out that everything that 1930s and 1940s Hollywoods had told me about the Civil War was wrong. So uh that's really how I got into the Civil War at a very early stage was exposure to our grandparents' movies, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Excellent, fantastic. And uh just just for the the audience at home, uh um Ryan gave a fantastic presentation at last year's spring conference, which is why I wanted to talk about this subject, because it was something that I find very, very interesting. Okay, so let's start then, Ryan. So, why should first bull run matter to Europeans, not just then, but today?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Um, well, um you take the normal reason, which uh the sort of standard reason, which is I think the American Civil War is the profound event in American history. Um more than the American Revolution, more than the First or Second World War, more than the Vietnam War. It is the sort of founding myth of the United States. Um, and because the United States would go on to become sort of the global hegemon, the only global superpower, I think it's vitally important for us in understanding where American institutions are today, where American politics are today, to understand where that comes from. And really the root for me is the American Civil War. But the other thing is, as you pointed out, is that it mattered to Europeans then. It mattered to Europeans in European capitals, to the diplomats, to the kings, to the prime ministers, but also it mattered a great deal to the working people both in Europe and um in the United States. There's the old uh story about in the Lancashire Mill towns, the um uh weavers had um three portraits on the wall. One of them was a religious symbol, um, one of them was Garibaldi, and the third one was Abraham Lincoln. So it really mattered to people then, and especially it mattered to the immigrants from Europe who were in the US at the time. So we're talking not today about the the farmers, the weavers, the bank clerks, the cartwrights, the working people who were prepared to risk a great deal um and get involved in the uh civil war?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, fantastic answer there, mate. Really good. And again, as you mentioned, the immigrants. Um, so why again, obviously, you know, immigration to the US, you know, that people going in their droves, aren't they, from Europe through throughout the uh so the 1850s, through that period. So, but why would immigrants want to fight in a in a war in a foreign country?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Well, um we can start off with saying they're people like any other um in the United States. So um at the risk, if you've seen it of doing the death Jeff Daniels speech from the start of Gettysburg, some of them were fighting for principle because they believed it was the right thing to do. Some of them were fighting for pay for three square meals a day. Um, if you're an unskilled laborer who's arrived in the US, you don't necessarily have the language. There's a bit of uh pay and job security joining the uh army. Um, there's the sense of adventure, um, but those are true for everyone, native-born Americans and immigrants alike. I think there are specific reasons for Europeans getting uh involved, which are um there's um sort of a almost a um a patriotic pride that if you're an Irishman, you're stronger and better than other people. If you're a German, you're stronger and better than um other people, and you've got something to prove. There could be a benefit to your people in supporting the United States government, or perhaps even the Confederate States government. There's a bit of healthy competition. Um, but I think there are the reasons are twofold. The same as any other ordinary American, but there are special reasons why immigrants are getting involved. But um it's it's interesting because at that point there's a very complicated anti-immigrant environment in the US.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Okay, thank you, mate. Um, okay, let's talk about some of these uh you know, Europeans that are gonna be prevalent and gonna you know join in their droves to to uh both sides of uh the fight. And uh so um let's start off with the Germans. So um tell us about the Germans and you know what what was there again why do they want to get involved with this?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Well, let's start off with talking about the Germans in general, because it's an odd term, and sometimes in when you're looking at primary sources, they don't even talk about Germans, they call them the Dutch. Um, and Dutch is American slang at the time for anyone with any connection to Germany. Um, so they could have been living in Pennsylvania for several generations, but if they still have the language, um uh then they're considered to be Dutch. Um but also it's not easy to say what is a German in this period. There is no Germany, there are a collection of German states. So when you see someone referred to as being Dutch, they're probably German. When you see someone being referred to as German, that can cover any of the German kingdoms: Prussia, Bavaria, Hesse, Hanover, Wurttemberg, Saxony. It can also mean that they're from a people around Germany. There are plenty of Poles who are referred to as German, plenty of Hungarians who are called German. If you're a Czech, on a good day, you might be called Bohemian, on a bad day, you're probably called German. So um the uh to start off with, being German covers a multitude of potential nationalities. But one of the reasons why there are lots of Central Europeans in America at the time is there have been field revolutions in Europe in 1848, in um Germany, in uh France, in Hungaria, uh, sorry, in Hungary, and um lots of people have had to flee the repercussions. Um, and um it's interesting that when you look at the German language press in the US, great play is made of the legacy of these revolutions. So when you're looking at um sort of German newspapers um and German language newspapers, they're talking about you must be a supporter of constitutionalism, you must be a supporter of liberalism, you must be in favor of uh Republican democratic ideals. Now those have died in Europe, the press would say. The only place they're alive is in the United States. Therefore, if you want these values to survive, you have to fight. Uh, and I think you just had a um a reference on screen a few moments ago to a German soldier who was writing to the Louisville Gazette. Um, and it tells it it's very pithily puts that feeling. We left our fatherland because we desired to rid our necks of the heel of tyrant who that trampled upon our rights. The proud spirit of our race will never submit to the yoke of bondage which Jeff Davis and his followers are striving to fasten upon us. So they're very much looking at the southern states, um, the Jeff Davis, the Confederacy, they're linking that to the idea of slavery, and they're linking that to the illiberal governments which they rebelled against in Europe in 1848. And so the fight for the United States, in the mind of many of these Central European liberals, is just the next episode in their fight against illiberalism, against autocracy, against aristocracies, that they have been pursuing for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, I've never thought about it like that. But yeah, I suppose that's their mindset, isn't it? Um okay, so as you said, you've got again uh, you know, this is the 1860s, so as you said, you know, the way we see Europe today was very, very different. Like you said, Germany's not really a country at the time, it's all different states, Hungary as well, it's all sort of like, but so there's plenty of other um, you know, nationalities that are uh uh you know in America during this period, and so also one thing we never really hear about is the Welsh connection, you know. I mean, obviously, you know me and Gina do the British connection, which I suppose that falls under, but you don't really hear much about the Welsh side of the story. So, could you give us a bit more idea about that?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Indeed, this is fascinating. And we talked about the uh Germans and their them looking at the war through the process of the 1848 revolutions. The Welsh are uh are fun. Um there is a great book um that talks about Welsh language writing in the Civil War, and there are tens of uh I think 10,000 pages of original writings about civil war, letters, newspaper articles that are in the Welsh language. Um and the book will come to me. I think it's called Um uh uh Sons of Liberty, Children of Arthur. Um I'll remind myself of that in a moment. But one great thing I discovered in that is the Welsh citizens of Racine, Wisconsin. And I have no idea how many Welsh citizens there were in Racine to gather together to make this proclamation in favour of the war. But it it tells you a great deal about both their support for the United States, but also what their specific concerns were. So we got it on screen there, whereas, in our opinion, the present crisis in which the treasonable rebellion involves the fate of the Republic, that no man or woman is worthy of the name or title of American citizen that will not, with his influence, wealth, blood, come to the support of the government in its present peril. Therefore, be it resolved that we, the Welsh citizens of Racine, do hereby tender to the government our warmest sympathy, with the assurance that we will, with our treasure and blood, support it in its efforts to put down the rebellion. Now, here's the bit I really enjoy, and is very personal to the Welsh. Resolved that we denounce as forever unworthy of our country any Welshman or any other adopted citizen, come from what country he may, who shall become so base to every impulse of manhood and truth as to apply to the British Consul or any consul for protection. That's the idea that people would sign up or later in the war be conscripted and would try and get out of fighting by saying, I'm not an American, I am a foreign citizen, I'm the subject of a foreign crime, I've applied to my consul to get off. And this is very much a commitment in the name of the Welsh people of Racine, but very much committed to the American cause to say this is our citizenship above all. We're not going to appeal to the British Consul or any consul to protect us, and we hold in contempt anyone that would do that and not commit themselves to the defence of the United States government.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, and uh it's fantastic that you've done this research into you know the insights of what each nationality is thinking uh during this period. It's fantastic. And then, of course, I know you've touched on it a little bit, so again, you could you know the Polish were also there, but again, as I said earlier, and you said the European Europe's a very different landscape at the time, but there's quite a lot of poles involved as well, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 14:19

It is, and and this is from the other side of the border. So these are polls um in um New Orleans. New Orleans is very much the sort of um uh mixing bowl in the south for all the various immigrants. There are many immigrants in the north in many cities, in New York, in Boston, and Philadelphia. There are much, many fewer immigrants in the south, but one city where many of them gather is of course New Orleans, which has already got its own unique French-inspired culture with uh uh there. So many Europeans gather there. There's been a revolution in Poland, um uh a failed one, as there were many failed Polish revolutions in the uh 19th century. Um, but here's their exhortation to people to fight Poles to fight for the South. This action upon the part of our Polish citizens is not only to be commended because of its invincement of their true attachment to the cause of the South, but because of the remembrance they evidently have of the struggles of their native land in the cause of freedom. So they're connecting the fact that Poland has ceased to exist, it's been carved up and dominated by its neighbors, Russia, Prussia, to a lesser degree Austria, and they're connecting that to the desire of the southern states to be free from what they view as the domination of a more economically powerful North. And so they see that that parallel there.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Wow, it's so interesting, it really is when you start looking into it like this in a bit more deeper. Um, so yeah, fantastic. Um, okay, I know you have mentioned this as well, but the you know, the anti-immigration attitudes in in America at the time, um, even though there's so many immigrants in the United States, but there is an underlying um, you know, bad attitudes towards immigrants, isn't there? So just give us a sense of what that's like for these guys that are coming into the country and and what they face, you know, um uh trying to fit into society here in America at the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Well, it's it's interesting, and uh I I won't touch on politics now, but it is interesting these themes keep sort of repeating throughout history. In the 1840s and the 1850s, there was a huge influx of immigrants um to the US. You have the Irish famine, you have various field revolutions, um, you have um uh pogroms in Eastern Europe. So there it there are waves of European immigration to the United States, and there was a backlash against that. Um, and one of the ways that this um sort of um crystallized was in the Know Nothing Party, and that was uh an expressly anti-immigrant political party. It was a nativist political movement, it was anti-immigrant, it was also particularly anti-Catholic. And that meant that they weren't just against the recent wave of Irish immigration, as I say, they weren't keen on Catholic Germans, they weren't keen on Catholic Hungarians coming into the country as well. And interestingly enough, they were also the first US party to really dabble with temperance and prohibition. And one of the reasons for that was they associated the excessive intake of alcohol with immigrant communities. So some of the stereotypes they would play with are the idea of the whiskey-sodden Irishman and the beer-soaked German. Um, but that wasn't just a um a know-nothing party prejudice. Those views permeated both the Republican and the Democratic parties. Um indeed I found a wonderful exchange um between um a doctor in Ohio, he's a fourth or fifth generation American, and he's a Democrat. His wife is a Republican, sort of a recipe for very happy marriage. Um, and in their letters, you can see they're having an argument about their politics and who supports their respective parties and how that reflects on them. Uh, and the doctor, Dr. Allen, writes a wonderful little pithy analysis of both parties. And he says to his wife, as to the party question, I want to say that my party contains a great many illiterate and unchristian members, but that it contains any more than any others I deny. It's also true that it is blessed with the drunken Irish, but that class is not in any greater numbers than the filthy, ignorant, superstitious Dutch that hang to the tails of your Republican Party. Now that's an educated man, that's a doctor, talking to his wife about their respective political parties, and how they have Irish and German supporters, and how he holds the supporters both of his party who are immigrants and the supporters of his wife's party who are immigrants, in obvious contempt. So it's it's tough. Uh it's it's always tough for immigrants, but at this time there's a real backlash and a real negative view to many immigrants who are moving into the US.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, which which in a way it makes you you laugh in a way, because at the end of the day, the uh you know, most US citizens are all all immigrant from immigration, you know, from the early days. But yeah, it's all about how far you're prepared to go back. Exactly. Yeah, no, and uh yeah. Anyway, let's talk about um a really important thing, and that is of course the Irish. Um, so um we haven't touched on the Irish yet. So, you know, as we know, uh just a little bit like the Dutch, sorry, Germans, you know, they have their own brigades, their own, you know, that there's a there's a huge amount of uh of Irish that take part in the civil war from from what I understand is around about 200,000. So what's the mindset of the Irish? And of course they're on both sides, aren't they? Not just on the on the north.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Well, um, as I said before, there's quite a bit of sort of national chauvinism um in all these groups. So uh and the Irish are as equally guilty, if not more so, than any other nationality, of saying we're Irish, we're the best, um, and crucially we're the best fighters. There's that classic line, and you can replace Irish with German or Pole or for that matter Yankee. Uh, it says that one Irishman can whip any three of any other nationality. So there's that chauvinism, first of all, um, driving the idea that we're great fighters, the the Union needs us, um, they'll be lost without us. There's also um um an idea that by serving the United States, that will help to convince um Protestant um Americans of long sort of standing, who've fourth, fifth, sixth generation Americans, that the Irish are a loyal asset to the United States and because they're prepared to fight and if need be, die for the cause of the United States. So it's it's almost buying at social acceptance with their service and with their lives. There's also a practical aspect to this, a pla a Political practical aspect. I talked about the 1848 revolutions in Europe. Well, there's a similar revolution in Ireland, and indeed there are usually revolts and rebellions in Ireland through this period. And there's an attitude among the more revolutionary Irish that wouldn't it be tremendous if we could get the United States government to train tens of thousands of Irishmen in the use of arms, in drill, in tactics, because at the end of that war we would have an army of our own, trained Irish veterans who know the ways of war, and what a tremendous tool that might be in obtaining home rule or independence for Ireland. So there's there's there's a political aspect to it in the minds of some that um this would be a tremendous asset looking back to Europe and the struggle for some of Irish independence.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And also I think people probably well, they might know, they might not, but the Irish have always had uh a presence with inside the British Army, say for instance, haven't they? So again, they're always they're they're always there when when there's a war. Um you know, so yeah, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

It's um the it's an interesting sort of parallel for both sides because whether you're an Irishman in the north or you're an Irishman in the South, you can, I think, draw a parallel to the appropriate side in the Civil War. So one of the famous uh um um Irish generals in the Civil War, Thomas Maher, he's someone who was an Irish revolutionary in 1848. And he's a New York politician now, and he looks at the Civil War and he says, this is the struggle for freedom. This is parallel with the Irish struggle, this is a struggle for freedom and democracy against the reinstitution of government by uh a landed aristocracy by a government that supports slavery. He very clearly equates this as a struggle between um democratic free government and um a an aristocratic form of government by landowners who support slavery. Now his friend, who's fought with him in the 1848 uh um revolutions, um he is not in New York, he's in Richmond, and um he's John Mitchell, and he's drawing exactly the same parallels, but for the benefit of the Confederacy. He sees the Confederacy as being an up-to-dart government, a people seeking to be free of a larger, more economically prosperous neighbour, in this case to the north rather than just across the Irish Sea, but they want to be free, the people want to be free, they want to have their own democratic government. So he sees the parallel between the Confederacy's struggle for freedom and Ireland's struggle for freedom against the British. So it's all about perspective and where you're sitting. Um, and I think it's it's easy for Europeans to draw the parallel with their own struggles in Europe, um, to whichever one of the two governments uh that they initially feel loyalty towards.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, and I mean you pretty much answered my next question because that's what I was going to ask, and I know you have touched on it a little earlier in the podcast as well, is the fact that obviously all these revolutions from the uh you know the 1840s and and again it shapes their attitudes towards war, but uh and again when you add all these people into the mixing pot with everything that's going on politically and and the road to the war, does that that really have an influence on how it ends up going to that point?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Um it does. I mean, you have um there are a lot of intellectuals and former military men who are in exile. And for the 1848 revolutionaries, a lot of them are going to side with the United States. That's instinctively where their um um sympathies lie. I think it's easier to draw that parallel with a democratic government where every man has the vote with their struggle against the autocratic monarchies of Europe. And that's not to say that a handful can draw the same comparison that Mitchell does sat in Richmond, but I think the majority of them they're in the north because that's it's more prosperous, there are more opportunities for immigrants there, but it's an easier parallel for them to draw. Um, and um a lot of them have military experience. These were violent revolutions. Um, Franz Siegel was fighting in Germany, and there are many, many Hungarians fighting, not just Austrians, they beat the Austrians effectively in their revolution. It's the Tsar and the Russian troops that are required to beat the Hungarians. There are the veterans of the Italian Wars of Unification, men who fought with Garibaldi, some men who fought with the Pope's forces against Garibaldi. There's a lot of military experience. So there are lots of people who think my experience can help the United States government or perhaps even the Confederate States government. So I think it it does motivate a lot of the leadership, and it does motivate a lot of the propaganda in the newspapers.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah. And again, that's that's my next question, is obviously, you know, the ethnic newspapers. I mean, are these communities would have had their own way of communicating news? How much of a role do they play in the recruitment of these immigrant soldiers?

SPEAKER_00 28:01

I mean, it's astonishing how many um foreign language newspapers there were, or newspapers um targeting a specific ethnic community. You have many German newspapers, you have many newspapers in English but targeting the Irish communities. Um, and it's astonishing things. There are Norwegian language newspapers. I mean, and I will apologize, I should have apologized at the outset for any of my pronunciations of European names, but this one isn't too difficult. The Norwegian newspaper Immigranten is writing to its uh uh uh Norwegian readership and it's saying, How on earth can you let the Germans and the Irish be seen to do better than you? You've got to join up, you've got to be seen to do your part. We can't have people uh say that Norwegians didn't step up when other nationalities did. So they are uh very good at promoting the um idea that there are benefits to the community, the immigrant community to joining up. They're also very good at promoting a competition between these various nationalities to be seen to contribute, to be seen to join up in large numbers in order to reap the benefits of acceptance.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Okay, Ryan, so an important question uh the Union or Confederacy. For European immigrants during the Civil War, did where they settle uh geographically play a significant role um whether they sided with Union or Confederacy?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Um and I think it does very much depend where they are when the war breaks out. I mean, we all know of the Virginians who go north to fight um for the Union. We all know of a handful of northerners like John Pemberton who go south. Um, there's less of a flow of Europeans across the border. Um, it's more of a sense of how enthusiastically you're prepared to join up. And I think at the start of the war, there is a lot of enthusiasm in the north among the much larger immigrant communities. They're much smaller in the south, but there's still enthusiasm. There are um Irish companies joining regiments all across the south. There are um uh Louisiana regiments which are full of immigrants, um, but it does, I think, impact particularly later in the war, when both sides start to look at conscription, um, what your actual values are. Uh, and I I won't belabor it because it comes much later in the war. But if you're a liberal German, or and again using the umbrella term German for all Central Europeans, you're a liberal German who's a homesteader in West Texas, you are not going to be aligned with a Confederate government that is potentially prejudiced against um Europeans. Um, it is not all that keen on your anti-slavery credentials, is not all that keen on your liberal view of the world, uh, and therefore you're not going to volunteer to fight and you're going to try and evade conscription. So, uh, and again, later in the war, the Irish are going to feel in the north that um they're being um taken advantage of, that the war is not being fought in their interests, that um the um attempts to abolish slavery is going to mean that they're going to be economically disadvantaged. There's going to be huge numbers of freedmen who are effectively going to be on uh the economic rung below the Irish and competing with them for even most basic unskilled jobs. So they begin to fall out of sympathy with northern values. So I think it does depend where you are at the start of the war, but I think as time goes on, your view of the war develops um in alignment with what your values are, what your economic interests are. Uh, and a lot of immigrant communities do begin to fall out of love with their governments.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Okay, yeah, excellent. And of course, as we know, Fall Sumter happens and the war starts, and obviously Lincoln calls up his 75,000 volunteers, and we get to the summer of 1861. And people might not know about this, but there is a little skirmish beforehand a few days before, I believe July the 18th, 1861. So just tell us a little bit about, and so these Europeans are going to be involved in this first little uh skirmish, aren't they? So just tell us a little bit about the uh skirmish of Blackburns Ford.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Blackburns Ford, there's a couple of things to be said about that, and it gives me an opportunity to talk about um uh uh one um uh Virginia regiment in particular, uh, and um uh completely at random, um, it gives me the opportunity to talk about um uh some um um Irishmen. Um and um we're talking about the First Virginia here, and um its colonel is um a Galway man by the name of Patrick T. Moore. Um now, unfortunately, um he's not going to get to Bull Run, um, but I'll come on to that in a moment. Company C of First Virginia, known as the Montgomery Guards, is almost entirely Irish, and it's uh under the command of a Sligo man by the name of uh uh John Dooley. And just uh um to talk about other Europeans, Company K, um, the Richmond German Rifles is exactly what it says on the tin. It's largely made up of Germans, mainly merchants from the Richmond Ering. Um, and um they're going to be involved in this um skirmish at um Blackburn's Ford. Now it's um interesting for a variety of reasons. We'll talk about um uh uh a few interesting characters of Blackburn's Ford uh uh as we go along. But um let me pick up Frank Potts, who's uh who's an Irishman whose diary is at the University of Virginia, and he's in the Irish Company of the First Virginian. Um he's been in the US for about 10 years, he was a merchant in England, um, and um we've got his diary, so we know he's some interesting things to say about Blackburn's Ford. Um, and this is this is a minor skirmish. It's not talked about, it's not studied in great detail, but this is the first time many of these guys are under fire. And so this is Frank Potts talking about his first experience of being under fire. And he said, um, I should say this is his first time firing his rifle. I fired twice at random while in the woods at nothing in particular. I loaded my piece at the ready for a sure shot as I saw a fellow creeping towards me. I came to aim, steadied my piece, and aiming at his breast, fired when I saw him no more. God have mercy on him. And then Frank talks about some other Irishman in the company. Um he talks about a chap by the name of Redmond, who's um a uh coppersmith, again, who'd been living in Portsmouth, Virginia. He was shot right through the knee, suffering great pain. All for my country is all he could say. Redmond was taken from the field for amputation. I gave him all my tobacco. Now we know that Redmond died, and Redmond left his Irish widow. Um, and um, I mentioned the Galway man, Colonel Moore, Colonel Moore, the uh the Galway man, he's injured, so he's removed from the field, he doesn't make it to Bull Run. Uh, and uh Major Frank Skinner takes over. Now, although Frank Skinner is an American, um, he seems to be very enthusiastic about the Irish, and Frank again talks about it in his diary. The Major took a particular fancy to our company and was all the time calling for Captain Dooley and seemed to think that we Irish were the boys to do all the fighting. Now, I don't think Frank was all that enthused about that particular idea. Um, and um, interestingly enough, um uh alongside, not very far away from the 1st Virginia, there's the 5th South Carolina, and I find a chap in the 5th South Carolina, he's he's a Scotsman by the name of Frank Graham Latham. Now, although they're not heavily involved in the fighting, the reason why I pull out Frank Graham Latham is his father was a Highland officer in the British Army during the Napoleonic Wars. Um, and he's very lucky to be in that part of the battlefield, not far from Blackburn's Fort, because of course there are Highlanders, which I think we'll talk about later on, who are in the Union force on the other side of the river. And he was very lucky not to have to face um those Highlanders uh across the field. Um, but um yes, so immigrants are involved in the fighting from the get-go, even days before the main engagement at um Bull Run.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Ryan, let's talk about the actual Battle of Bull Run then. So again, um sorry, 21st of July 1861, I believe that's the right date, um, it takes place. And so, who were some of the most notable European-born soldiers, officers at the first Bull Run? And obviously, is there any particular memorable or unusual stories associated with their experiences during the battle? And uh, we'll go through each section.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Well, let's let's start with um Sherman's Brigade. They're a great example that throws up lots of um uh um immigrants at every level. Um, and let's start with the fighting 69th um New York Regiment. This is probably the nearest thing to a completely ethnic first-generation emigrant regiment there is on both sides. It's led by a Sligo colonel called Michael Kolkoran. Um, alongside them, we've got the 79th New York. Those are the Highlanders I'm talking about uh earlier, um, the Cameron Highlanders. This is supposed to be a purely Scottish regiment, and the first four companies are largely first generation Scots from the old uh uh pre-war militia. They're supposed to be equipped with kilts and trues, and we might touch on that later. Four more companies are made up of second-generation Scots, Englishmen and Irishmen, uh, with a further company largely made up of English and Irish. Now, some people might say that that's there's an awful lot of Irish people in what's supposed to be a Scottish regiment, but um, bearing in mind that the famines in Ireland of the 1840s are not that long ago, one of the first places the Irish immigrated to were was England and Scotland. So if you walk down a street in Glasgow in the 1860s, you're probably as likely to hear an Irish accent as a Scottish accent. So it begins to get a little muddy uh as to decide who might be Scottish and who isn't at this point. Um, but actually let me look at the Scots for a moment. Um, David Morris, he's formerly a lieutenant of the 42nd Regiment in the British Army, the Black Watch. He's a Crimean War veteran, he's one of the very few people in either army who served in a regular army during a war. He knows what he's about. Um, but at this point he's only a captain. But again, he's no adventurer, he's not a mercenary, he hasn't come here um for excitement or uh uh at the last moment. He's emigrated to the US, he's uh been um a brass merchant, having retired from the British Army, who joined up to serve his country in a Scottish New York regiment. Um, there's also the second Wisconsin, which um at first sight looks like a largely American unit, but actually nearly a third of the men are born in a foreign country, with a majority from German-speaking realms. Um, and a couple of the companies are overwhelmingly foreign. So Company K, for example, has about 92% of its members who are born outside of the United States. I find um Scots in that company, Norwegians, Welshmen, and Irishmen. Um and if we go on from Sherman's Brigade to touch on Blinker's uh brigade, um, and I I touch on it because it's in reserve on that day. Um, but it's overwhelmingly German, and again I use the word German in its broadest sort of 18th-century sense. So we've got the 8th New York, um, which doesn't sound sort of very German-sounding until you realize its original name was the First German Rifles, and it's under a Hungarian colonel, Julius Stahl. Um, he's very complicated. So originally he'd been a lieutenant in the Habsburg Austrian army before deserting to fight um in the Hungarian War of Liberation, and he's then forced to go into exile like many of the um other fortiators. But in some ways, the Hungarians are not like other European revolutionaries at this time. Um many of the German fortiators are defeated by um such vaunted military forces as the Royal Badinese uh army, or sorry, the Grand Ducal Badnese Army. And if that sounds like three men and a rusty donkey, that's because that's what it was. Schertz and Franz Siegel were defeated by small German forces. The Hungarians defeated the Austrian army in their revolution. It was only the intervention of the Tsar and the Russian army that really defeated them. They are much more experienced and successful soldiers. And interestingly, um, and I'm I'm this is anecdotal, but I've looked at some of the figures and I'm hoping to bottom this out. But for every nationality that joins the Union Army, the vast majority join as private. That's perfectly logical. Privates make up the majority of the army. From my studies, it looks as though the majority of Hungarians, because of their military experience, joins captains in the Union Army. That's astonishing that they're not privates in the majority. Uh, but that's just an interesting little aside about uh um Hungarians. Um we've also got the 29th New York and Blenker's Brigade, and um again known as the first German Infantry or the Astor Rifles. That's serving under Adolphe von Steinwehr. He's a Brunswicker, and his grandfather was a general under Frederick the Great. He's a professional soldier, he's not a revolutionary, he served in the Prussian army. And I wonder how he felt being in Blinker's Brigade with all. These revolutionaries that may have made for uncomfortable uh um dinners. Then we've got the 39th New York, otherwise known as the Garibaldi Guard. This is a real polyglot regiment. We've got three companies of Germans, three companies of Hungarians, one Swiss, one French, a mixed company of Spaniards and Portuguese, and one Italian company, all under Colonel by the name of Dutasi. Now he's an interesting character. He's definitely a Hungarian. He may have been an Austrian cadet, he may have been a Hungarian rebel. He may also have gone on to be an instructor of Ottoman cavalry. Alternatively, he may have been an excellent fraud. There is a suggestion in my research that he's impersonating someone else. And actually, he's an impoverished Jewish Hungarian with very little military experience. One thing I will say for certain about him, he knows how to pursue a vendetta and it very much falls in with the early Union Army tradition of picking enemies and spending more time fighting them than the Confederates. And to give you an example of one of his enemies, it's a captain in that regiment, Alessandro Rappetti, who's from Genoa in Italy. And Rappeti has, again, military experience. He fought with Garibaldi in the Italian Wars of Unification. So it's interesting. Here are officers who have military experience, which the vast majority don't at Bull Run. They fought in the 48th revolutions, they fought in the Hungarian War of Independence, they fought in the Italian Wars of Liberation. Then we've got the 27th Pennsylvania under Colonel Max Einstein, who's a Jewish chap from Wurttemberg in southwest Germany. Now, we've even if you know something about the Civil War and have heard the names of Stahl and Dutasi and Von Steinwehr, you probably won't have heard of Max Einstein. He's not going to trouble us very much in the history of the Civil War because he absented himself from the battle. I think being in reserve proved a little too much for him, and he didn't stay very long as Colonel. Now there are many, many Europeans in this brigade. And if you read the names below a staff, and there may be 20 or in fact, there it is, thank you. Well, I might do it then if if everyone will apologize for the pronunciations. And uh see if you can spot the odd man out in the staff of a quote unquote American general. Um Louis Blinker's staff is made up of Captain Visen, Captain Georg von Armsburg, Colonel Lorenzi Castador, Count Vonelstein, Captain Schultz, Lieutenant Drag, Colonel Finkelair, Colonel Rossetti, Colonel Prince Sam Sand, Captain Hugo von Branenstein, Captain Gustav Zund, Captain Hersdorf, Captain Foster, Colonel Eugene Kosliff, Captain Hermann Bocker, Captain Sheuman, and Lieutenant Schimmel. I think Captain Foster probably stands out from that. But that's the staff officers of an American general in the United States Civil War. And every one of those is a European. That's astonishing to think about that. I think every time McDowell or later McClellan was presented with a European they weren't quite sure about, they probably sent him to be on Blinker's staff. And by the time of Cross Keys, he had a staff of 18. So there's one U general in the Civil War who did not have an inadequate staff. But that's that's astonishing, really, to look at. Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, and um it might be worthwhile now just swapping to the other side and talking about the Confederates a little bit. Um, because there are a few units I want to pick out. We've talked about First Virginia, um, and despite all the talk about native um nativist tendencies in the Confederacy, um the First Virginia Regiment, number one, it's commanded by a Gallowayman, as I said. Um but um having touched on them, let's talk about uh a slightly more exotic, I'll say exotic um rich uh uh regiment, um, which is um the um 1st Special Battalion of the Louisiana Volunteer Infantry um under a major Robado Wheat, and they're otherwise known as Wheat's Battalion or Louisiana Tigers. And here's a quote about them, a southern quote. This is from someone who served alongside them. They were considered to be the lowest scum of the lower Mississippi, adventurous war rats, thieves, outcasts, and bad characters generally. Pause. They were mostly Irish. So that's that was the view of Wheat's battalion. And there, many of those soldiers had filibustered with William Locker and Robert O'Weat throughout Central America in the 1850s and throughout the Caribbean. Um, and um, I think if you look at what it was like to work on the wharf in New Orleans, um, being in battle, being in the army was probably marginally less hazardous than working on a wharf in New Orleans. Uh, and it's a terrible thing to say, but it was common to Dawn a lot at the time. It was often said the Irish were employed on the wharfs in New Orleans because the risk of injury was too high to risk losing the capital investment in a slave if they were injured. Um, so um there are there are many Irishmen and other nationalities serving in um uh the Louisiana Tigers, and that might be a good point to sort of come on to some individual stories. And as we're on New Orleans, it might be good to talk about a Frenchman. Um, and again, we're just on the eve of battle, and I want to talk about a chap called um Napoleon Joseph Fremot, um, who goes by Leon, and again, he is another father who is a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, his father was um a non-commissioned officer. Um, after the war, they moved to Louisiana, but um Leon is sent back to France to get what um he calls a proper education. Um, he's an artist, he's a civil engineer, he's a cartographer. Um, given the very weird politics of New Orleans, even though he's a Frenchman, he's still involved in the Know Nothing Party. Um, his brother is very active in the Know Nothing Party and manages to get him various state jobs before the war. Um, he also gets involved in the militia movement, um, which is very popular in the United States before the war, and he's involved with something called the Creole Guards, becoming its captain. And that is eventually mobilized as Company A in the 8th Louisiana. And he's sitting outside Manassas with plenty of free time. He's a cartographer, he's an artist, so he starts drawing maps, and um, he drew one showing the topography of the area around um Manassas and Bull Run Creek. And it's of such a high quality that after the battle, he's employed by General Beauregard to make formal maps of the battle using these sketches he originally made, adding in the various brigades and divisions to the map, showing their movements. So I just wanted to show here's a Frenchman who's serving in the Confederacy who is entrusted by Beauregard with drawing an accurate representation of not only the features of the battle, but what happens during the battle. He's a an early chronicler of what happens at Bull Run, given his skills and experience. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Okay, mate. So um let's move on to um some uh a different topic now. Um let's move on to this.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Yes, so we talk about Robert O'Weat, uh, and it might be good to sort of talk about them being in battle. Let's get to the main event. Um, Robert O'Weat's Louisiana Tigers. Um, I'm not going to do an overview of the whole battle. Many of those listening might know it better than I do. I just want to pick out specific little parts that I think are relevant and where I think immigrants get to be part of the story and tell their story. And this fight between Robert O. Wheat's Tigers and the Union Army is a good example. So there's a Union attack forming, and Shanks Evans is uh commanding one of the brigades, and he thinks this is a single regiment attack coming his way, and it's not. It's two regiments of Rhode Islanders. Um, but Wheat gets sent with his tigers to go and fight off this attack without knowing it's two regiments. And we have the comments of one of the Irishmen in the Tigers who was there, and I'll just quote him. Our blood was on fire, life was valueless. The boys fired one volley and then rushed upon the foe with club rifles, beating down their guard, then closed upon them with knives. Greek had met Greek, the tug of war had come. It did not seem as though men were fighting, but as if there were devils mingling in the conflict, cursing, yelling, cutting, and shrieking. Um the reference to Greek met Greek makes me feel this is a better educated um Irishman than the average wharf worker than most. But he then goes on to talk about another Irishman, Robert Going Atkins. Now, Atkins is an Irishman with wheat. I haven't yet bottomed out whether he's yet got a formal commission in the Confederacy. He definitely has one later. He's fought with wheat in Central America and the Caribbean as a filibuster. He's also fought with Wheat for Garibaldi in the Italian Wars of Unification. He would get a commission, he'd very quickly get a promotion after the battle. But our Irish diary writer is very clear. He says it was Captain Atkins who led Wheat's battalion at Manassas after the noble Wheat fell wounded, leading the celebrated charge of the Louisiana Tigers with the bear Shalala. Now, um bearing in mind that Robert Going Atkins is supposed to have survived Walker's expedition to Central America and fighting with various legions in Italy, I suspect you probably would have known better than to go into battle with nothing other than an Irish blackthorn stick. That's the Shillili, the Shillala that's referred to. So that might be a bit of an exaggeration. But Robert Coing Atkins is an experienced veteran. And just to be clear, before he gets involved in any of those expeditions in Central America or Italy, he's been in the militia in Ireland, the Royal Cork City Artillery. And he's from a long line of British and Irish regular and militia officers. So I'm not surprised he took command when Wheat's injured. He sounds like someone who knows their business. Let's move on to talk about perhaps the Second Wisconsin, if we can. And there you've got a great picture of an example of what the Second Wisconsin looked like. This is not our traditional idea of the Union Army at all. They're dressed in grey, they're wearing a very, very poor facsimile of what I suspect is supposed to be a British shackled from sort of the Napoleonic War or shortly thereafter. But I want to talk about a handful of the Europeans who are fighting in the Second Wisconsin. I want to start with a chap by the name of Oli Olison, who's Norwegian. He's sick with the measles. But he and a half a dozen of his fellows in second Wisconsin effectively discharge themselves from hospital when they hear there's going to be a fight. And they return to their regiment. And uh it's one of their captains, um chap by the name of Birk, um, and it's his job to work out what to do with these lads because they're obviously ill, but they're absolutely championing it the bit to fight. So he lets some of the healthier ones back into line. But obviously, poor old Ollie Olison is as spotted as a leopard, so he gets sent back to the hospital with immediate effect. But here's a young guy, a young Norwegian, fighting in the US with the Union Army, and he's so desperate to fight that he's prepared to effectively run away from hospital, even though he's so ill that he gets sent back. Um so that shows the level of commitment of some of these guys. Um, now let's talk about two friends. Um, we've got um Louis Schintz and Sebastian Ostertag. Now Louis is Swiss, uh, and Sebastian is from Wurttemberg in southeast uh southwest Germany. Louis's from Zurich, and he's the first person in the little town of Oshkosch, Wisconsin to volunteer. And his best friend, Sebastian Ostertag, is the second person. And um Louis is, as they probably said at the time, stepping out with Sebastian's sister, so they're very close. Um and um when they're in the thick of the fighting with the second Wisconsin, we have someone writing about Louis and what happens to Louis, and I'll just quote again a musket ball entered his coat under the arm and lodged in the breast of the coat against his suspender. Schintz, that's Louis, reached inside the garment expecting to find a bloody wound, but instead extracted a souvenir. He's a very lucky lad, does, uh, and eventually he goes on to become a second lieutenant in the um 23rd Wisconsin. Now, poor old Sebastian is a bit more of a bullet magnet, uh, and ironically is injured at Bronner's Farm um at uh at 2nd Manassas and then again at Gettysburg. Um, let's talk about another German in the regiment, Gustav Hollenbreck. Now, I don't know where in Germany he's from, um, but I have a very pithy paragraph um where he suggests he spends a lot of time in the battle lying down with his face to the ground, not seeing very much. So he might be a very wise chap. Um and he says, and I quote, their cannonballs flew over our heads so thickly that it seemed like the heaviest snowstorm in winter. We still can't do anything with the enemy. You seem as if they come out of the ground and fight as if they were drunk or crazy. During this whole battle, we saw more dirt and trees than enemy. Now, um unsurprisingly, I'm going to talk um very briefly about an Irishman, John Donovan. I'm not going to go into the full litany of John Donovan's story throughout the war, that bears a lot of research if you're interested. But when I said Sebastian Ostertide was a bullet magnet, he has nothing in comparison to John Donovan at Bull Run. When an Irishman commits to do something, he really commits to it. So John Donovan is shot and injured six times at Bull Run, and he lives to tell the tale. And he writes about it in great detail. Uh, and I just want to put it in his words, because it's an amazing story. So he gets hit once and he keeps fighting. And he says, and I quote, after being hit a second time, I still kept loading and firing as fast as I could. About ten minutes, as near as I can judge, a third ball struck me in the right side, which remains somewhere inside me. This disabled me for a short time, but again I loaded and fired two or three times as well as I could when I was struck in the right arm while in the act of firing, about midway between my elbow and shoulder joints. The ball running up towards my neck. Um the ball was taken out about nine weeks afterwards by the hospital surgeon at Richmond. I fired my musket but once after this, and the recall of it hurt my shoulder so much I was unable to bear it. I left the fence to get behind a tree, standing some 250 yards off, and picked up a revolver which lay on the ground. Just after I left the fence, at which time a bullet struck my right wrist, glancing off the bow. I went a little further towards the tree when some 12 or 15 Confederate soldiers came out of the woods directly towards me. Um, well, Daz, bearing in mind that he was still fighting after being shot six times, I understand why it took um 12 or 15 Confederates to take um parole John Donovan prisoner. And let me touch on one last chap um in the regiment, uh, Vincent Flanagan. And I've only got one line in someone else's memoirs about Vincent Flanagan, but I think it probably says a lot about him. There were only two men left from the second Wisconsin who are now becoming very dimly aware that they are the last two, and everyone else has retreated, cleared off. And the chap lying on the ground next to Flanagan hears Flanagan talking to himself. And what Flanagan says is this well, Mr. Flanagan, they've all gone. How about we go too? And Flanagan says that to himself and off he goes. So it's um uh there's there's some humor in it at the same time as really trying to capture how it felt to be there effectively on your own. Um let me talk about a colonel um James Haggerty, 69th New York, he was at Blackburn's um Ford. Um rather after Blackburn's Ford, sorry, he's ordered to advance to support the attacking units um and he encounters a Union regiment moving in the opposite direction. Uh, and mistaking these retreating Union troops for advancing rebels, the 69th are about to fire on them. And Hegarty rides up in front of them all, dashes along the line, and strikes up everybody's um muskets um with his sword. Um, he has a very keen eye, he's realized they're retreating union troops. Um, and during the subsequent artillery barrage, when the men of the 69th New York very sensibly lie down, Heggerty chose to set an example and he stands erect on the right of the line, just to set an example and show that he's not frightened of the artillery. So that gives you an idea of the mettle of the man. Then we get to the day of Bull Run, when the fighting's already been raging for some time, and the Irishmen of the 69th get the order to cross Bull Run Creek, and they form a junction with the already engaged main attacking force. And to do so, Sherman's brigade, for which the 69th is parked, have to negotiate some rebels who are already in the process of retreating from their position on Matthew Hill to their new line on Henry Hill. And they marched the 69th is bringing them up on the right and rear of some of these withdrawing Confederates. And Lieutenant Colonel Hegerty of the 69th is um uh acting uh uh without orders, and he rides up and he's endeavouring to capture, intercept some of these retreating rebels. And one of these retreating rebels in full view at short range just turns around and shoots Hegerty dead and he falls from his horse. Um, and perhaps then sensed by what they've just seen, um, a portion of 69th New York opens fire immediately on the retreating um rebels. Now, the troops who are retreating, uh as far as I can tell, are the Louisiana Tigers. So it's entirely possible, if not indeed probable, that the man who shot James Hegerty, a Was of another Irishman. Here we have Irishmen shooting other Irishmen in a battle, a continent away. So it's um perhaps not surprising, but um something to think about in any event. Let's talk about another Irishman. Owen McGill. Um and that uh the only reason I know how to pronounce Owen's surname is I went to university with someone with the same surname. That does not look like McGill, but that's how it's pronounced. I have that uh uh straight from the horse's mouth from another McGill. He's a regular, he's been in the army before the war. Um, battery D of the 5th US artillery is commanded by Charles Griffin. His section leader is Adible Ames. These are names that will pop up again later, a higher level in the Civil War. And they're fighting the way up to Henry Hill. And around Owen McGough, first one man and then another is killed at the cannon. His sergeant, Sergeant Murphy, another Irishman, is injured. The guns get to the top, and another private, Patty Sullivan, shocker, another Irishman, is killed. Then the wheel of um his artillery piece gets destroyed. So under fire, Owen McGough and Ataber Eames are trying to refit the wheel. And they manage to do it in time. Um, and by time I mean they managed to get fixed in time to escape with the gun. And in fact, Owen McGill's artillery piece is the only gun from Charles Griffin's battery that gets away. And as a result, Owen McGill gets the Medal of Honor for his work that day at Bull Run as a regular. Um, so that's um that just shows that um there are Irishmen who've joined up to the regular army, who are fighting that day as regulars, and who are being ultimately being rewarded with the highest medal for courage and endeavour that the United States has. Fantastic. This is an interesting one. Um so um we've talked our way through um uh part of the battle, um, but um let me touch on sort of some of the views of the aftermath um because um we've got some interesting characters, um and let me talk about um let's see, let me start with William Russell. So um, no, actually, I'll I'll start with Rudolf Acherman. So um Rudolf Acherman, I should say, um, is a Swiss immigrant uh and he writes his memoirs, and he sees the retreat of the Union troops as they go past him, um, pell mell on the retreat from Bull Run, and these are his words. The first brigade had advanced boldly 50 steps outside of the woods, where it was greeted by a terrible fire from the front and right flank, which created fightful devastation in its ranks and forced it to fall back. The second line was sent in after it, but it was soon broken up, the fleeing men of the first by the fleeing men of the first line and rushed back to the woods in disarray. Suddenly panic seemed to have overcome the army and everything turned into a complete rout. On the road to Centreville, cannons, wagons, ambulances, parts of regiments, fleeing and wounded men, all rushing in wild disorder towards the only bridge. So those are the words of a uh a Swiss officer in the Union Army watching this pell mell retreat. And it gets worse. We have um a reporter for the Times who manages to make himself incredibly unpopular in the United States with his reporting on the Battle of Bull Run. Um, and William Russell, although often called an Englishman, he was born in Ireland, um, and he's reporting from what he observed two miles away at Centerville. And he was very frank about this. Um, and let me give you the opening paragraph from his reporting. The repulse of the Federalists, decided as it was, might have had no serious effects whatsoever beyond mere failure, but for the disgraceful conduct of the troops. The retreat on their lines at Centerville seems to have ended in a cowardly route, a miserable, causeless panic. Such scandalous behaviour on the part of soldiers I should not have considered possible, as with some experience of camps and armies, I have never, even in alarms amongst camp followers, seen the likes. Um, and in the following six and a half columns in the newspaper, Russell went on to tell of men who were, I quote, um, it were a disgrace to the profession of arms to call soldiers, running wild-eyed and frightened from the battle. Um, Russell goes on to criticize the baggage, wagon drivers as ignorant, he declares as inadequate the system of guards and pickets. Um, he takes a passing pot shot or two of the never-ending political interference with military affairs. And after that, William Russell is advised by the few northern friends he has left not to go anywhere in the north unarmed. Um, although I have to say that as scathing as Russell's reporting was, his comments were endorsed by Sherman. Um, and um Matthew Brady, who'd been present and seen the aftermath, uh, told William Russell his description of the retreat fell far short of the actual disgrace he observed. So here we have European reporters watching the battle and reporting um back to um a European audience. Um and on the the discussion of the route, let's go back to Louis Blinker and his rear guard in reserve, because I think this is very interesting. Um, this is where Blinker and his Germans make their appearance. Blinker, seemingly on his own initiative, as far as I can tell, moves to where Cum Run crosses the Centerville Road and his trenches dug and sends parts of Stal's regiment out his pickets. He starts gathering all the artillery uh around him to try and cover the retreat. And that organized process means that many loose pieces of artillery are probably saved from the rebels by being gathered up into his position. Now he doesn't have that much significant fighting as the rearguard. He does have some skirmishing with Stuart's Black Horse First Virginia Cavalry, but he does very well out of the rebel press, because in a lot of the reports they identified Blinker's brigade as actually being United States regulars. And of course, because the front lines are very permeable, those southern newspapers cross the line, so the northern press pick it up, uh, and Blinker and his men are immediately lauded in the Northern press as appearing like regulars. Um, now you might ask why they're in reserve. I don't know. Um is it because they're more experienced officers, they're men having fought battles in Europe, that they're held in reserve, uh, perhaps less charitably, that there's a prejudice against these largely immigrant regiments, and such um experiences they do have is to be blunt, running away from battles in Baden, running away from battles in Budapest, running away from battles in Wurttemberg. This is not their first experience of a Pell Mel retreat. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, uh, a matter of being where they were in the line. But their reputation is very much burnished by their behavior in the rear guard. Um I think that bleeds then into the impact uh it has um on immigrant regiments after the battle of first bull run.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:13

Fantastic, excellent. Thank you, mate, for explaining that. Okay, let's move on to one more thing um before we wrap up the podcast. Now, obviously, Bull Run is known for its different uniforms and and you know, like you said, grey grey uniforms on the north side, blue uniforms on the south side. But one thing that I've never come across before is kilts at Bull Run. So just tell us a little bit about this.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

This is um the Cameron Highlanders that I talked about. Um, and the idea that at least four companies were supposed to have been fitted out with kilts, which you can see on the right, or trues, which are effectively tartan trousers for anyone that uh uh doesn't know. And um uh it's a wonderful picture to think that um there might have been um almost an outlander style um kilts at Bull Run. So I've looked into this. Um, and yes, there were 300 original old militiamen who were supposed to have kilts and did have trues, and these were very popular when the regiment was initially based in Washington. Um, now, while they may have been popular with the ladies, I think it's fairly clear that a lot of the other soldiers were merciless in mocking and pulling the legs, well, at least metaphorically, of the um Cameron Highlanders, these New Yorkers wearing their kilts. And I think they were largely out of fashion by the time they started marching south. But there is one officer who has rumored to have insisted on sticking to the kilt. Now, there is some mythology around this officer, because obviously on the march south, logistics are still in their infancy, and the soldiers have got to find something to eat. And the story goes that this kilted officer decided to chase a loose pig for his dinner. And obviously, he doesn't want to shoot the pig and make a mess of it, so he's chasing the pig around in his kilt, waving his sword around. Now you can probably imagine the spectacle of a grown man running up and down the line of march uh in what is what is largely considered by a lot of the soldiers to be a skirt. Um, it completely stops the troops in their tracks. And for several minutes, this officer is running about chasing the pig with his kilt flying in the air while the men are calling for him to put on his drawers and take that petticoat off. Now, the sort of pinnacle of this chase results in the hard-pressed pig uh racing for a rail fence, and he just manages to squeeze through the bottom rail. And the enterprising captain tries to jump over the rail after, and he makes such an exhibit of himself, as you might imagine, leaping through the air, that all men burst into laughter at what one of them called his attenuated anatomy. I think it's safe to say that that officer did not wear the kilt again. So, having looked into it, there's some argument, but um I don't think that the kilt is being worn at the battle. I lean towards the notion that there are no kilts being worn at Bull Run, which is sad, but I suspect that's probably the answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

Excellent. Well, thank you for adding that in. I really appreciate that. Okay, let's round up the podcast now. So, what impact did Bull Run have on the reputation and obviously opportunities going forward for immigrant soldiers? And what does the story of immigrant soldiers tell us about the global nature of the American Civil War?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:04

Well, um, there's quite a lot of reporting um on the fighting that the ethnic regiments have undertaken at Bull Ron in particular. And um the Irish 69th, 69th New York, is so impressive, and the press reporting is so glowing that it means that Thomas Marr manages to convince the War Office to let him raise a full Irish brigade for union service. So their reputation is enhanced, their contribution is noted on both sides. Um, whether that pays dividends in the long run, whether you want to be known as an elite formation, to be thrown into the most difficult bits of battle, um, is a uh a double-edged sword. Um now there's no great translation of Irish train troops from the US Army to fight in Ireland. That expectation didn't really amount to anything. There are a few hundred Irish veterans who ultimately fight in Canada during the Fenian Revolt's invasion, which I won't go into now because it's incredibly complicated, um, uh, even more so than the average Irish history. Um, but that expectation didn't amount to a great deal. And the Irish reputation would largely be sullied, certainly in the northern press, in the later draft writing in New York, because many working-class Irish immigrants were opposed to emancipation. So Bolon enhances their reputation, but as their enthusiasm for the war wanes and their opposition to emancipation grows, that very much um becomes a much more mixed bag. In terms of the Germans, again, their reputation is significantly enhanced by um Blenker's actions um in the rearguard. Um, but again, that enhanced reputation, which effectively sees um Blenker's brigade grow to a division, it's probably the only ethnic division in US Army history, but that reputation, which so Blenker's brigade will go to become a division, which will become cornerstone of the 11th Corps, and of course the 11th Corps is on the flank at Chancellorsville, and the German troops would see their reputation heavily sullied by the right of the 11th Corps Chancellorsville. So, again, very much another mixed bag. The initial positive press is sullied in subsequent battles. Um, but the important point I want to impart is that while Bull Run is an American battle, obviously, it's also a European battle. It's a battle where many Europeans fought for their adoptive countries and their adoptive states. It's where they risked their lives for a multitude of reasons. But there are hundreds and thousands of them fighting in this battle. Many of them thought the causes for which they thought were worth risking their lives. Um, so uh perhaps we on this side of the Atlantic opt to pause and consider why it should be so important to them and therefore why important to us now. And I really appreciate the opportunity, Daz, to just really touch on their story with you today.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Yeah, well, I'd like to thank you for you know giving up your time to come and talk to me about this fascinating topic. Um, I remember when you gave the presentation at the Roundtable Conference straight away, I was like, this is definitely gonna have to be an episode somewhere down the uh you know in the future. So thank you so much for giving up your time, Ryan. Not at all, sir. And all that is left to say at this point, ladies and gentlemen, is chill.