The Deep Healing Project
The Wellness Brothers, Dr. Jake and Dr. Nick Hyde, talk about doctor stuff, or brother stuff, or sometimes both. Filled to the brim with humor, practical advice, and rich in-depth conversation, these brothers from opposite sides of the country connect on the topics that they truly love. Centered on holistic health, each podcast goes to the core of physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health and life.
The Deep Healing Project
The Art of Letting Go
The Hyde brothers delve into the life-changing wisdom of Dr. David R. Hawkins' book "Letting Go" and reveal why most people struggle with truly releasing attachments and emotional patterns.
• Understanding the difference between superficial personal development and deep transformation work
• Why using willpower to let go becomes counterproductive and keeps you stuck
• The pencil analogy - recognizing where you end and your attachments begin
• How resistance to emotions actually tightens your grip on them
• The power of self-compassion as the key to releasing our grip on attachments
• Differentiating between your true self and your ego-driven false identity
• Practical techniques for responding to triggers with acceptance rather than judgment
• Real-world examples of how letting go transforms relationships and daily experiences
If you're ready to take what you know and put it into practice on a whole other level, that is what we specialize in. Don't be afraid to reach out through the links wherever you're listening to this.
Hey everyone, welcome back to an exciting episode with the two cutest brothers.
Speaker 2:Self-proclaimed.
Speaker 1:Self-proclaimed. Oh yeah, we're back here. I'm Dr Nick Hyde. This is my brother, Dr Jake.
Speaker 2:Hyde, hey everybody, what's going on?
Speaker 1:We did have some rights to the Wellness Brothers for a bit and the Holistic Brothers, but that's tough content to keep man.
Speaker 2:So we're going with Cutest now. Yeah, that one's available for some reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless the Hanson Brothers beat us to it.
Speaker 2:Oh, the Jonas Brothers, probably yeah, the Jonas Brothers, take us to it. The Jonas brothers, probably yeah, the Jonas brothers take us to court. Well, nick, proud of you, it's good to see you this lovely morning. It's like five, your time Pacific, and we're finding time to meet. That's his dad life man. Gotta beat the kiddos away.
Speaker 1:It's nice to be like. This is my chunk and no one could take this away from me.
Speaker 2:I could do whatever I want with this time, until your boys figure out you're up to something in the morning and then they're like I don't want to miss out on that.
Speaker 1:Well, it's funny when I tell my oldest whatever I'm going to do the next morning, because he always wants to get the breakdown of the day as we go to bed, which is pretty funny, and I think most of the time if I have anything interesting going on early in the morning, not even that interesting. I think I was taking someone to the airport last week, but last night I was like I'm going to talk with Uncle Jake early in the morning. He's like can I come? I always my answer is always the same if you wake up on time, you can come and I think he really tries he's like I'm gonna do it all right.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe we get a guest cameo today.
Speaker 1:We'll see I don't think so that's not happening too early.
Speaker 2:No, my boy might make it in here. So, nick, I was thinking today we can answer a question that comes up a lot in the work that I do with my clients. So there's a life-changing book. This one is well-documented, a lot of influencers out there, thought leaders, they make their list of. You know, these are like the three books, or these are the five books that really changed my life. One that comes up a lot for people is letting go by david r hawkins. Dr david hawkins, our favorite doctor on the pod, and that's certainly on my list too, wouldn't you say?
Speaker 1:uh, it's, once you've read it and like really taking it in, it becomes the only real book that you need.
Speaker 2:Yeah so does that answer your question? Yeah, that'll be a blurb on the next like publication of it.
Speaker 1:It's the only real book you need, dr nick hide yeah, so put me on the back, I would be so pleased.
Speaker 2:Well, I highly recommend that to people and sometimes they'll read it and they'll be like so great book, but can you tell me how do you let go? I'm like, all right, well, the whole book's about that, but we can simplify it today, I think. What do you think? Easy peasy, all right.
Speaker 2:Now there's a couple traps that I recognize that people fall into when trying to do personal development work. So letting go would be personal development work. I think it's like really deep and profound development work. Some personal development work is like get up at 4.m and meditate, pray and journal for 30 minutes and then go to the gym and do your cold plunges and like some of that's like great. But this is like the deep, profound personal development work and it's nuanced and I would say you can't willpower your way to this type of work, right, Because it's not really linear either. So you can't just say here's my schedule and I'm going to better myself, like you can set your alarm for 430 and you can have your journal out and you could force yourself to sit down and meditate, right. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:This stuff you can't like willpower your way to do, and I think that's one of the things that gets people stuck. Another thing that gets people stuck is because a lot of people like why do people want to better themselves? I'll tell you me personally, like when I wanted to better myself, what I really was doing was, instead of saying I want to become a better person, it was like my ego wants people to think I'm a better person. All right. So that's like one of the first traps that I see people fall into is like you're wanting to better yourself egoically so you seem like a better person, so you could feel like safer in the world, Cause people are, like there goes Jake, a pretty good person. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so letting go is ultimately letting go of the false self, the ego, your attachments. And if you're using your ego to do letting go work, you're not going to do it. Ego to do letting go work, you're not gonna do it. So even just simply that desire to be a better person, like a, if you're operating out of desire, you're operating out of your ego. And so that's the first like stumbling block for a lot of people. It's like your ego can get you out of, say, like a fear or lack based model like I, I'm not, I'm not enough, I don't have enough.
Speaker 2:Fear is a pretty decent motivator. Like fear can get you up early in the morning to the gym, right, yeah, certainly worked for me. My being afraid of judgment, criticism, falling short of the mark, disappointing others, got me into a fairly productive let's say productive and ambitious place yeah, I think that most people would agree with that right so if you're doing that kind of system approach to letting go, you're going to get stuck because the ego, like letting go, the ego while being the ego is not.
Speaker 2:it's not going to work. And so here's yeah, here's the like picture that I give people. I usually do something like this, like I'm holding a pencil here, right in my hand, and when people think of letting, they think very simple terms of like, let go of this pencil that I'm holding right and I can, through my will, make a choice to let go of this pencil and I can just put it down right, so I can will my way to do that. And so, thinking in those terms, you're going to find yourself getting very stuck here because there's a few obstacles. One is the thing you're letting go of you think is you Okay, as we operate our whole lives? Not our whole lives but as the ego starts to develop, then you're operating as the ego and it's hard to differentiate you from not you. Does that make sense? So, instead of you saying, all right, jake, just let go of that pencil, it would be more like you saying, all right, jake, let go of your hand. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So now I'm looking at my hand.
Speaker 2:I'm like how do, how do I let go of my hand?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, this is an interesting way of doing an intro to it, because sometimes it doesn't feel like that and I think that that's kind of the starter course. But and probably people who are just trying to get more well-adjusted egos can't do the basic principles of letting go. But, as you're saying, like, this is not white belt letting go that we're talking about. This is kind of like, once you've hit a wall with it, what's going on? So, yes, ultimately we over-identify with the things in our life, including the body that we have, including just all the experiences that we've had, and we think that that's us, even the thoughts we think. Most people would say those are my thoughts, but really there's no indication that those are actually your thoughts. They're just happening Just like your heart's beating. Your mind is always thinking and that's its job and I shouldn't identify with the fact that. You know if I'm, it seems like any time I want to go into deep meditation, some song I hate from a long time ago comes up in my brain, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, your thoughts are essentially like relics of your past, so your thoughts are kind of programmed based on your experiences. You get thoughts as you acquire experiences. So, yeah, your thoughts are as much you as this pencil is me. This pencil is something that I picked up along the way. It's not something that's me, and your thoughts are very similar. You pick up your thoughts as you're experiencing life, right, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So when a thought pops in, it's because you had an experience in the past that kind of created that thought or downloaded that thought into you, and so now you own that program and, just recognizing that that is not who I am meaning, I can delete that thought entirely and I'm still me, maybe even more me, percentage wise, because it's like the same thing as identifying yourself as your experiences, which is best case scenario, for that is. That's a highly limiting way to see yourself, but people that have been through horrific experiences made me do that better. It's like understanding those horrible things that happened are not my identity. I'm not defined by those tragedies and that trauma, whereas when it's a lot easier to say I am those things because you want to own those experiences. But again, those aren't you. Those are experiences that you got to have for better or worse.
Speaker 1:But I do want to mention this because a lot of this is I want to get you know. Just spend a little more time on this, because the first thing that happens for most people in healing is the diagnosis right Most people go somewhere.
Speaker 1:Most people go somewhere. They get a diagnosis ways, maybe in therapy ways. They get their. They might have a psychological diagnosis, but they might just have like you have a mother wound issue and this happened or that happened or whatever, right. So it's like you get lumped on with this identity and that can be a great place to start, because now you have awareness of something to work on and work through. But, as we're saying, ultimately when you go into healing for that thing, eventually there has to be a letting go of that because it no longer fits. It's like, as long as I hold the mother wound, I'm always going to have a mother wound, you know. It's like, yeah, yeah, you have to at some point. If you want to have complete healing and resolution, you have to be able to completely let it go go of it, including the identity of it and everything wrapped around that, to basically be able to get on the other side and say I have no mother wound.
Speaker 2:That's what complete healing looks like yeah, it'd be like this transition from I am wounded to I experienced a wound to I am whole and complete.
Speaker 1:You know it's like. That's what to. I am whole and complete. You know it's like that's what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the whole path. It's understanding like this is something that I've experienced, that I'm holding on to, so you could call that an attachment. And so stepping into a truer identity of self is understanding that. That's an experience that I have. It's not part of who I am. It's part of my story certainly. It's not part of who I am. It's part of my story certainly, but it's not part of my identity, which means I can safely release this and still be me.
Speaker 2:So back to this pencil analogy a lot of healing. So you could say it starts with the diagnosis. Healing starts with recognizing that there's something to do, you might say, before the diagnosis. Like healing starts with the experience of suffering, realizing that healing can, or rather needs to happen. I'm suffering. It's like, okay, I'm in need of healing, and then you seek help and then you'll get a diagnosis. And now it's like, all right, I have this mother wound or I have like an attachment disorder or something that someone labeled you with, and so you're not healing the attachment disorder, right, because that doesn't need healing. You need healing and you're not a disorder. That's why you and I, as doctors, don't diagnose and treat diagnoses anymore, right, you and I work towards optimizing health any more right? You and I work towards optimizing health. We help create the conditions in which optimization and healing takes place. So, all right, back to this pencil. So instead of just saying, let's see, jake, let go of the pencil.
Speaker 2:A lot of healing starts with I recognize that I'm holding something that's not me. That is let go of all Right. So, getting better at recognizing where my hand, my actual hand, ends and this pencil begins, can I just get better at seeing that? That's a big step. If you can even do that, you're ahead of the game. You're ahead, ahead of like I don't know the percent, but a large percent of the, the population out there is. Just can I recognize there isn't me and I'm starting to see where I end and, like my, my attachments begin. So if you can do that, that's pretty. But then what do you do after that?
Speaker 2:Well, where a lot of people get stuck is then they're deciding like, okay, now I have this um ego attachment, so we'll pick, like a general attachments people have. It's like I have the shame attachment. I'm identifying myself through shame or say anger. So you might be in your healing work. I have an anger problem and now I want to let go of anger, or attachments to anger, rather, because nothing is wrong with experiencing anger, but an attachment to anger meaning I see myself through this lens. That's what can be let go of. All right, now here's people get stuck. It's like, all right, now I see the anger and I recognize that it's not me. Now I'm going to will myself to let go of it.
Speaker 2:And what a lot of people do is, when they recognize the anger experience happening, say, a trigger, they get triggered and now they're angry at their kids, or they're angry at your boss or your girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, wife, whatever they go, I do not want to be like this anymore. And where a lot of people in personal development work gets stuck is that what I would call normal reaction experiencing anger, and I don't want this in my life anymore. And so the book Letting Go to make it really simple is, instead of saying I don't want this anymore, you say I'm experiencing anger and I deeply and completely love, accept and forgive myself. Or, at the very least, if you can't get to loving, acceptance, be compassionate towards yourself as you're struggling through experiences. And so here's the image that I want everyone to have when you recognize this ego attachment, this false self, this wound, because, again, you're only triggered if you're holding a wound, right, it's like the analogy, for this is like if you went to a spa and got like a salt scrub or you did it at home or whatever. Like a salt scrub is exfoliating, it's healthy for your skin, it feels good, right. If you have a laceration, like if you have an open wound on your skin and you do a salt scrub, it'd be quite painful. It's not the salt, it's the wound. And so if you're triggered, that implies like an open wound.
Speaker 2:So say, you have this triggered experience. Now I'm angry, but I'm getting more conscious, I'm being able to observe myself better. So now I'm experiencing anger, it's very natural to go okay, I don't want this anymore in my life. But you being in resistance to that experience is essentially you squeezing your fist. You're tightening your grip on this attachment, like I don't want this anymore, and you're squeezing. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:And some people are like I'm doing this, letting go work. You're not doing it. If you're in desire, right, I desire to let go of anger. It's like you're in your ego now and you're not going to let go of your ego with your ego. So what Dr Hawkins teaches in this book is, if you can be compassionate towards yourself, like you recognize the ego attachment and you can now be in. Compassion meaning, like this, willingness to be present with yourself tenderly what that does is relaxes your grip. So, yeah, I'm still holding this pencil, but my grip is just relaxing. And then he says the letting go happens when you're not even paying attention. So you're relaxing your grip, you're in a moment of ego activation. You're choosing to be tender and present with yourself, which means you're getting out of your ego. Your grip starts to relax and this pencil slips out of my hands when I'm just going about my life because my grip is relaxed. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I have some two cents to that Because in my experience which is not arguable, because it's my experience, so no one can argue with me about this for me it I've always felt like I do the letting go technique. When I'm not letting go of, like you know, we're using anger, but I'm letting go of like the resistance that's the ultimate thing you're surrendering is resisting the healing and so, yeah, the compassion is felt by just being able to be with that thing and have it, not just have an okayness about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're not letting go of anger. That's again that's like the trap people fall into. You're letting go of anger, that's again that's like the trap people fall into. You're letting go of resisting the healing. And so you, being in a compassionate state, is you stepping out of resistance into, uh, let's call it a willingness or an acceptance. And so what that does over time is starts to shrink the ego, so it it becomes smaller, less of a force, so it becomes more let go a bowl, whereas being in resistance so putting your ego in opposition, energizes your ego. So one way to think about that is your ego essentially being born out of conflict, so it thrives in conflict. So if you put yourself in conflict with the ego program, your ego gets more energized, becomes bigger.
Speaker 2:So in a moment of anger, say you feel disrespected and it's like that's the trigger, because you you have like a disrespect attachment, so someone's disrespecting you, say your kids just aren't listening to you and you get mad, right, and then you want to like bark at them, you want to disrespect them, right, that's like this anger reflex. Uh, obviously, when you do that, it's easy to be like I don't, I hate that part of myself, I don't want to be like that, but if you make the ego the bad guy, your ego has work to do in that. So I'm identifying with disrespect. Your ego is like this is what we do when we feel disrespected, like this is what I'm here for.
Speaker 2:And what you're saying is, in that moment, by being compassionate towards yourself, putting yourself in acceptance, is like there's no work for the ego to do right now. Actually, the thing that I believe is happening disrespect isn't. I'm actually feeling accepted right now and so, just like a muscle that never gets used atrophies. That's the healing work here is allowing the ego to start to atrophy from disuse, because the trigger happens and you're, like your ego's, like I'm here for this, this is what I do, this is my job, let me handle this. And you're saying actually, no, I don't need you right now like don't need you right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I you know. Thank you, jake, for bringing up this topic and making it so clear for people. Um, I think something people don't really understand is that healing, progress and growth are completely unstoppable. Sure, it's an unstoppable force because you have this thing called your spirit. That goes on forever. It's energy and it's so powerful. It is so powerful and, uh, it's the thing that's animating you and you know, our brain gets really in the way of the power of that and a lot of that becomes, you know, it's just ego, right?
Speaker 1:What's? What is the ego? Anyways, it's, it's some conglomeration of all the survival instincts that we have and that we've learned and call it collective consciousness and whatever else. But it's these, these things that are an impetus for us to survive a lot of different circumstances. But it's really it's become very meta. Well, maybe it's always been very meta in the sense that it's really geared towards its own survival. The ego's. It's the most selfish aspect of of a person, so to speak, in the sense that the ego is not even my ego, is not about the survival of nick, it's about the survival of Nick's ego.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, because, yeah, your ego thinks that that's what you are. Yeah, so your ego thinks it's real, which is another hard part of letting go, and that's why they refer to things as ego deaths, because the healing definitely comes from a part of this derived sense of self fading into non-existence, becoming not real again. So that's the hard part about doing it too, and that's the thing about recognizing it, so I can recognize that I'm holding on to this pencil. One of the reasons you're going to be compassionate for yourself is you're holding this pencil because at some point in your life, based on your experiences and your, let's say, level of maturity and wisdom at the time you're developing survival programming, says this pencil is going to give me some security in life, and so letting it go is quite scary.
Speaker 2:It's almost like a security blanket where, as a little baby, actually feels security, maybe being wrapped up in a blanket, it's like this is giving me security. And then that child starts to grow and they're four and five and they clutch that blanket because they're like this makes me safer, this gives me this good feeling of security. And then that child starts to grow and they're four and five and they clutch that blanket because they're like. This makes me safer, this gives me this good feeling of security, and eventually they'll either sleep with that the rest of their life or they'll realize the security actually didn't come from this. It gave me a sense of it at one point, that's true, but now I can let go of this understanding that my security is not based on this tool in my life and your ego is that it's a set of tools for navigating through the stresses of your environment, particularly in adolescence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I think that that bears repeating, in maybe a slightly different way. I think we can all relate with this ego response. Maybe no one has had this except for me. I think people can relate with this.
Speaker 1:When you get close to an edge, you're in a high place and there's this first thought that's like what if I just went over the edge? What if I just fell over? What if I jumped over? It's like, oh yeah, just went over the edge. What if I just fell over? What if I jumped over? It's like, oh yeah, you're just standing there, right, and your ego tries to convince you that it's your fear that's holding you back from not going over the edge, right. I think that this is a great understanding to have because it applies to all ego instincts. So the ego is always saying it's like oh, it's because I, I made you anxious and afraid that you bought that nice insurance policy to keep your family, whatever you know, from going into ruin. And it's like I didn't need anxiety to do that, you know. It's like no, I don't need that, I don't need that.
Speaker 1:So when people are getting interrupted, hitting blockages in the letting go, it's really the ego stepping in and I find that it's usually another ego reaction that happens.
Speaker 1:So they're like I want to let go of this anger I'm feeling. And as the anger is coming up and this awareness of the anger comes up, now there's another ego response layer on top of it, and maybe it's fear and it's like I'm afraid of this feeling, like it's this feeling too much. Or maybe it's shame or guilt, and they're like wow, I've been such a bad angry person my whole life, or whatever. Or guilt, and they're like wow, I've been such a bad angry person my whole life, or whatever. Right, it's like. And then they're trying to just stay focused on the anger. But there's other emotions coming up, maybe emotions that you can't even you know. Maybe if you're not very practiced, you haven't, you don't have a capacity to name all these feelings you're feeling and they're just like, like all kinds of layers. I've discovered some of the most significant fear I've ever had in my life is not fear but shame. It's a feeling of shame.
Speaker 2:But maybe it's a fear of not being good enough.
Speaker 1:Well, right, it feels like fear, because I'm having anxiety and my heart's beating faster or whatever, and I think it's fear and I'm trying to let go of the fear. But it's not fear, it's shame. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, oh dude. Yeah, and that same thing can go for anger, right. It's like I'm really angry at that person, but it's really like I'm feeling so shameful and defensive.
Speaker 2:I'm feeling so defensive of self that it looks like anger, because I'm ready to cock someone you know, right in like defense of yourself or defense of your right to be here, to be part of the tribe yeah, you know, if you corner a bear, right it's gonna.
Speaker 1:You know it's like this how the ego can be if it's really cornered. And yeah, sometimes I find it's best not even to name the feeling. As long as you can feel it, you could heal it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I would say that that is true and that is what Hawkins teaches. I think early on in healing work it's okay to name it, just so you could say just recognize that there's something, there's a wound there that's in need of healing. So if you can name it, maybe you get better at recognizing that it's not you. But yeah, an advanced healing work is you don't name it at all, because naming it puts you into the scripts, puts you into the recording. So naming it might placebo yourself or more accurately, nocebo, right, nocebo being the inverse of the placebo.
Speaker 2:So nocebo meaning like, if you're expecting a negative outcome or you believe in a negative outcome, you're more likely to experience it. So if you do name it, you're like, oh, I'm experiencing shame. Then your nervous system, your subconscious, can go into oh, shame, this is, we know what to do with shame. And then you go into that spiral where it starts to affect your physiology. So in advanced healing work you don't need to name it, because naming it might put you into this program. It's autopilot where it just plays out. So yeah, in advanced healing work you don't have to say this is shame, you just recognize there's a feeling coming up and you can start being compassionate towards yourself and you start to shrink it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, just to give another description of that, for people who are trying to do the black belt, letting go stuff, I would say, as is the case with your body, you know, you might have like knee pain and I feel the feeling. Maybe it feels a little dull, a little stabby, whatever it feels right. If I'm like it's that osteoarthritis, I know it's bone on bone and now you're creating this image and making it something you didn't need to do. That right, you just feel. And so I've had this with some people.
Speaker 1:I actually just had this with a client. He came in and he had gotten let's see, he had just gotten like a CT scan MRI done on his low back, got an MRI done on his low back and he was in a lot of pain. I treated him, the pain was gone, right, no pain. Then he got his results of the MRI back back and the person went over it with him and he has really bad stenosis. Well, what happened? Within a couple days, all the pain came back and it got worse because they told him this is really severe they told him that like this is really severe.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised you're able to walk and and they said something like that, and within a week he wasn't able to walk. I can't even make this stuff up, this just happened. And so he came back in for a follow-up and I was like whoa, okay now, we have all this resistance, we have all this resistance. He was out of pain. We have all this resistance, we have all this resistance to doing we. He was out of pain, and so that was the question I asked him, cause he was like can you help this? And I and I said to him I was like why do you think the pain has anything to do with the stenosis?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that stenosis didn't just happen.
Speaker 1:He was out of pain recently with theosis already and it's like he couldn't quite register in his brain. But you know, I'm like I already know this guy's, he's just gonna go medical route. So I already know in my head I'm like I gotta drop a big spiritual mind bomb for you to wrestle with your whole life. You know, yeah, and so I was like you know, why do you think this? Why do you think any of your symptoms you have you have had anything to do with any of these diagnoses? You know some of my biggest releases in my life where I thought it was one thing, it ended up being nothing about that, um, and that's to get on a whole different topic.
Speaker 1:But you know, I've had certain things pain conditions. I had, you know, the shoulder. I separated the shoulder and I broke a couple ribs in rugby and I was feeling a ton of pain and someone did an energy contact you know this from best on my right, my other opposite arm, not even where the shoulder problem was, and all the pain went away. And so it's like you know and this is a good image this makes it easy for us to do letting go, because we've experienced this a lot over and over and over again. But I like to create this image for people, because when you're doing the letting go process and we're talking about this really in context of healing, you know on kind of an emotional level, um, but this applies to the body obviously is you? Yeah, again, you don't really have to name it, you just feel into it and and you know we're letting go of resistance.
Speaker 1:Resistance to what? Everything? Yeah, it's like I have resistance, because I think this is a named diagnosis and it's. You know, the people that I've known have this the rest of their lives and things just go from bad to worse. Well, that's resistance. Let go of that resistance. You know, it's just all resistance. And now I'm in a place of freedom. I've let go of the resistance. I'm on the other side. I'm in freedom. Those rules don't apply to me anymore In fact, they never did Except if I buy in freedom. Those rules don't apply to me anymore In fact, they never did Except if I buy into them.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, all right. So what we're often resisting is simply growth. So you grow when you learn, and so learning implies a change in belief systems. And so, like you said, your ego is not trying to get you, nick, to survive, your ego is trying to get it to survive. And so Dr Hawkins says your ego would walk you right off of a bridge to prove it's right, because it's not really there to survive, it's there to give you a sense of security and your ego thinks it serves as this prediction model for life. It's like all right, we know how it works, we can expect the dangers, expect threats, because we can recognize the patterns and we know, we have enough analysis, we know, like, where all the threats are and so when it's right.
Speaker 2:So you have a negative experience, but it's connected to an egoic belief system. You're like man. This this is really unfortunate for me, but your ego is like we told you, your ego is thrilled. So your ego doesn't want you to be happy, it wants to be right above anything else, because that's part of its connection to this sense of security. It's like am I a good predictor of the world? And so that's why I'll walk you right off a bridge to be right, because it wants to be right above anything else. So when you grow, so when you learn something and you grow and you evolve as a person, part of your ego had to die off in order for that to happen. So what you really are is resisting growth, because your ego is like if we're growing, then I'm shrinking and that's an ego death. Your ego thinks it's real, it doesn't want to die. So that's where a lot of the resistance is, and so another let's go ahead.
Speaker 1:uh, oh, you got another problem here, sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, the other problem with. Go ahead man.
Speaker 1:You go Well aren't we in a Canadian standoff here? No, please, jake, you go ahead All right.
Speaker 2:So making the ego the bad guy becomes a problematic situation, because now you put yourself under like threat and that's where you go live. So something that I find helpful is understanding your ego is not the bad guy, it's just a tool you don't need anymore. So your ego starts to form when you're you're very young I mean newborn even and you have no context really for for life, and you start to experience stresses and you don't know quite where to put them. So your ego starts to develop these programs in order to make life feel more predictable, and so what your ego actually does is create a sense of security. When you're young, it helps you navigate these stresses, and so you don't want to make it the bad guy. It's like, all right, you're an adult now, or you're a young adult maybe, and it's like you made it this far. Pretty good, good on you. It's like now you're starting to learn what tools you no longer need that aren't actually helping you create a life that feels peaceful and joyful and loving, because your ego is not going to get you there, but your ego can help you navigate, say, like the social stresses of elementary school. Or your ego can help you navigate through the stresses of, say, being in in an unhealthy household as a young child. So it does actually help you. But now you're an adult and those same programs aren't serving the life you're trying to create for yourself. That's all. So it's just an outdated tool and that makes it easier to put it down. So it's like if you're thinking about doing a house renovation project, the tools that are helpful early on might just be creating more harm than good later on. Right, so sledgehammer may be quite useful early on on this project, but now you're trying to like install a backsplash in your kitchen or you're trying to do like trim, like painting work, and you're still using a sledgehammer. You're like this is creating damage in my, in my project. It's like you're just you can put that sledgehammer down. It helped you at one point. It's not helping you anymore.
Speaker 2:And that's the other thing too, is we talk about letting go of the ego. I'm not likely to be egoless in this life. It's possible, but it's unlikely, it's pretty rare, yeah. So it's like I'm not trying to just completely let go of the ego. I'm trying to phase of my healing, recognize the tools that are the most obvious to me, that aren't helping me anymore, so I can put them down, and so I'm still going to be using my ego to navigate through my stresses, for the time being anyway, just which ones are? The obvious? Ones that are, let's say, outdated or are not useful anymore, and so like, here's an example uh, this happened a couple months ago, but I was going to a dinner party where I knew one person maybe two people, but there's a lot of strangers for me and my ego likes that, because my ego is insecure, but it's built tools, it's built programs for me to essentially extract value out of people.
Speaker 2:I deal with it. So, at a social setting, it's like, you know, I'm walking into this house. My ego is like all right, jake, I got it from here, this is what I do. I can charm, you know. I can charm people, I can impress people. I can use this event to feel good about myself, to feel accepted, to feel like I'm good enough to belong in the, in the community, to feel like I have value. And so for a lot of my life, probably part of why I like socializing is because when I do, I can. You know, I have enough egoic tools to get what I want out of that situation so I can leave, being like I am accepted okay, or I'm good enough so that's I wish my ego into the same school as yours.
Speaker 1:You have different ego programs, man.
Speaker 2:But like that's part of why maybe some people are more extroverted is because like, oh, I can use a social setting to get what I think I'm missing in life. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. So recognizing, like walking in here, recognizing my ego, is like excellent, jake, I'll take it from here, I can handle this party, you can just relax. Just recognizing the ego being activated. Just recognizing the ego being activated. And before I went in and started meeting people, I said actually, like I'm feeling fully accepted right now, I'm feeling perfectly good enough. Um, I don't need these people to achieve that feeling. State like I already have it and that's all that is.
Speaker 2:It's like that tool helped me a lot. I think it really helped me. You know, elementary school, middle school, high school is a really good tool for me. It made those environments, I would say, not stressful at all for me. However, that tool isn't helping me with the goals that I want right now, for example, to be a loving person. So if I'm using people in my environment to extract this sense of value, I'm not loving them, I'm using them. Even though on the surface it seems perfectly benevolent, it is. It's not love. And so recognizing that tool connecting to my lovableness and my acceptance before meeting anyone. I can then just be present with people and I can actually connect instead of trying to get something from them, because that's what your ego is always trying to do it's trying to gain something. So I don't need anything from this situation. So now I can be of loving service in this environment, and that is an entirely different experience for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to say something about that, cause I that is such a beautiful I mean. I mean I hate to, you know, toot our own horn here for a second, but like Two times.
Speaker 1:Nick two times. Yeah, there's a lot of good you guys could. There's a lot of wisdom in this podcast, because we've been working at what I believe is one of the all-time best tools for human nature here and this is some high-level stuff. So, as jake is saying you know you're talking about that ego wants. It, wants something, it wants some kind of gain One of the most powerful things I did for my close relationships I just feel like there's a blockage and this happened actually at the time.
Speaker 1:This happened in COVID, and there's a lot of judgment and criticism for who's doing what and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and not seeing people that I loved anymore and whatever All this kind of stuff was happening. And so, as Jake's saying, like he's entering a party, he's doing that. I just kind of did that for each individual that I was struggling with and I examined these relationships and I was like you know what? I am wanting something from this person and it's putting me in tension and at odds with this person. And the truth is, what are the chances that I'm ever going to get this thing that I want from them? Zero, like, maybe, maybe, like one time or whatever, right, but it's like, for instance, maybe I want to be acknowledged for something that I did that was difficult and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And are they going to give me that acknowledgement and be like you know what nick that one time you went through all that stuff that was awesome. I'm like will that be worth it if they say that no, it won't be Like, okay, cool, so now I have to move on. So I just went through these different relationships and I just tried to let go of any desire from any one of these people and the ego wants you to believe if you don't want anything from them, the relationship's over, right. But what I found is that I was able to enjoy these people for who they were and it was like, oh, I thought that this relationship was just going to, you know, tank. And then I went through that and it's like now, when that person's around me, I'm like I'm having so much fun with you and I'm enjoying listening and hearing you. And maybe did I ever even really listen to this person before and appreciate them for who they were? Maybe not on that level, you know who they were not. Maybe not on that level, you know. So, um, yeah, being aware of these ego traps, finding ways to be at peace and be okay with the feelings and just kind of move on and let go, extraordinarily powerful it.
Speaker 1:You know people think like if you let go of a your attachment to like food, for instance, that food is going to suck right like. You just think it's like oh I, I let go of all attachment to food and now I just eat like out of a can and it's just for sustenance or something like that. Out of a can and it's just for sustenance or something like that. It's like, no, as you let go of attachment, the plate is put before you and it's time to eat and you're now able to love whatever is in front of you. You're like wow, I've never tasted, tasted, this vegetable like this before. It tastes so good, like I could appreciate it for what it is. I'm not in this cravingness where I'm like it's not filet mignon, don't even bother right now you get to see the beauty in things really cool.
Speaker 1:Um thanks for sharing that nick I think it's time to start wrapping this up. I just want I think it probably would be helpful for people if we just went through one really simple beginning to end letting go of a thing, cool. So, in your words, jake, this was the first time someone was coming to you and was like I have this issue. Let's just start with anger, because that's what we were starting with before, and let's say they're angry at their kids, because I think that was an example that we used before.
Speaker 2:All right, so simple steps. I always say a lot of people skip this step. But I say, recognizing this opportunity for healing it's the first step, which is a lot different energy than recognizing that you were falling short of the mark, you're failing as a parent, right, that puts you in resistance, you're in judgment and criticism, so you're not going to heal. So if you recognize this is a healing opportunity, that's the first step. It's like, oh, I just snapped, I just made my kids feel bad, I just shamed my kids. It's easy to go in criticism there, but that's what you have to surrender and you say, okay, I'm in a healing moment. So if you can get get to gratitude for a healing opportunity, that's great. So I get to do some healing. Right, because the way I see it is like the file's been opened. The ego program I have access to this program so means I could heal.
Speaker 2:So recognize it, being grateful for an opportunity to heal and then feeling in your body, at the minimum, compassion for yourself, right, this willingness to be tender towards yourself as you're struggling. Even better would be loving acceptance. It's like, yeah, I didn't behave perfectly there, but I would have if I could have. Right, because I'm still limited by my programming. So I'm going to get out of resistance which would be the judgment, condemnation, shame, guilt into. Even though I'm experiencing this anger or these feelings right now, I deeply and completely love, accept and forgive myself. You try to feel that forgiveness in your body. You feel that acceptance and then you move on in gratitude for that healing moment.
Speaker 2:And then again, if you hurt someone, great opportunity to connect with them. You know forgiveness. If it's your kids, great opportunity to teach them about forgiveness. If it's just you, something that happened in your internal space, you know you can still heal that relationship with yourself too, with forgiveness. But recognize that that is an opportunity for healing. Get out of resistance. You can get out of resistance by compassion. Compassion becomes this fertilizer for your growth and then you trust that, as I'm nourishing myself, growth is the inevitability. I don't have to make myself grow. I don't have to. Will it? Just have to let go of the resisting. That's actually quite simple. That's actually quite simple yep, there you go.
Speaker 1:There you have it in the soulless way I put it in my brain ftf feel the feeling. Just keep my focus on the feeling, focus on the feeling. So it could be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go that's a great way to do the healing work. You can also work with professionals like nick and I. There's a lot of people out there that can help you go through this work very specifically, very efficiently when you work one-on-one with a practitioner. But you can heal yourself too. But if you want to work with nick and I, you can. You can go through the links. Um, however, you're listening to this, you can access us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're ready to take what you know and put it into practice on a whole other level. That is what we specialize in. Yeah, so don't be afraid to reach out.
Speaker 2:That'll do it, Nick. It was great seeing you All right.
Speaker 1:Peace everyone Until next time. Love you guys.