Kit Wisdom: navigating an automotive career journey driven by an internal need to remain challenged.

Kit is the Chief Operating Officer of Tusker, the UK's largest salary sacrifice scheme provider and part of the Lloyds Banking Group.

Kit has been with Tusker for almost five years and prior to joining he held a number of mobility and operational roles during a seven year tenure at Alphabet.

He began his automotive career with three years at Enterprise Rent-A-Car in a variety of roles that culminated in him becoming UK Implementation manager.

In our conversation we talk about his entry into the industry and his progress through it driven by his own internal need to maintain a level of challenge.

We talk about jobs he really wanted and one that he really didn't want but found he actually loved and Kit shares his reflections on some of the best leadership traits he's been fortunate to experience.

Kit is a very calm and considered automotive leader who has progressed from washing cars on the Enterprise Graduate programme to being COO of a well respected player in the UK industry. 

I am pleased to be able to introduce him to you in this episode and look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Reach out to Kit:

LinkedIn: Kit Wisdom

Thank you to our episode sponsors:

ASKE Consulting

Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

Aquilae

Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

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If you enjoy listening to our guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app. 

Episode recorded on 14 April, 2023

Transcript

Kit Wisdom: 0:00

With leadership, I think you need to have already a disposition to want to lead people. Yeah. And a disposition to lead people. I think it can be coached for sure. But I think some people will have it and some people won't.

Aquilae: 0:14

Welcome to Career-view Mirror the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy follows

Andy: 0:46

Hello, listeners, Andy here. As always, thank you for tuning in. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Kit Wisdom. Kit is the Chief Operating Officer of Tusker, The UK's largest salary sacrifice scheme provider. And now part of the Lloyds Banking Group. Kit has been with Tusker for almost five years and prior to joining he held a number of mobility and operational roles during a seven year tenure at Alphabet. He began his automotive career with three years at Enterprise Rent a Car and a variety of roles that culminated in him becoming UK implementation manager. In our conversation, we talk about his entry into the industry and his progress through it, driven by his own internal need to maintain a level of challenge. We talk about jobs he really wanted, and one that he really didn't want, but found he actually loved and Kit shares his reflections on some of the best leadership traits he's been fortunate to experience. Kit is a very calm and considered automotive leader who's progressed from washing cars on the Enterprise Graduate Programme, to being COO of a well respected player in the UK industry. I'm pleased to be able to introduce him to you in this episode, and look forward to hearing what resonates with you. Hello, Kit, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Kit Wisdom: 2:09

Hi, Andy. I am talking to you from the deep dark Surrey, in the south of the UK. We're pretty close to London yet away from it enough to be in the countryside.

Andy: 2:22

Sounds very good. I'd like if I may to start with where your journey began so tell me where were you born? And where did you grow up?

Kit Wisdom: 2:31

So I grew up close to Croydon, in the suburbs in Greater London. So always lived in this part of the UK, very urban sort of area, and a little town called Norbury, which is just north of Croydon.

Andy: 2:49

So let's go back to when you were very young then. Tell me a bit about your family. Did you have? Do you have brothers and sisters?

Kit Wisdom: 2:57

Yes, I've got brother and sister got a half brother and half sister who are older than me, actually, and quite a bit older than me so much so that I've got a nephew who is older than me, by a couple of months. So brothers and sisters, but they lived away from home. So I was really brought up in a way as an only child, but with that wider family network. Lots of uncles, aunts.

Andy: 3:21

So quite a big family and quite a lot of people around?

Kit Wisdom: 3:24

Yeah.

Andy: 3:26

And what did your Mum and Dad or do Mum and Dad do for jobs?

Kit Wisdom: 3:30

So my dad was a was in IT, was an IT contractor and I think really was involved from an early kind of stage in in IT development within companies. So he was a database administrator. It sounds really exciting. And my mom was a homemaker but she would run little businesses, particularly around refurbishing and selling antiques on.

Andy: 3:53

Okay, yeah. So a little bit of entrepreneurialism.

Kit Wisdom: 3:56

Yeah, exactly. I think for both of them in a way

Andy: 3:56

So comfortable with a bit of risk. because although my dad was in a very kind of corporate role. He was a contractor and he would have different contracts in different parts of the country. You go where the work goes.

Kit Wisdom: 4:10

Yeah, indeed. I'm not sure he was comfortable with it. But yeah, he definitely partook.

Andy: 4:16

And you as a student Kit, how were you at school?

Kit Wisdom: 4:20

I always wanted to get out and start working. I enjoyed my time at school, and in lots of extra curriculum sorts of stuff but was always keen to get out into the workplace. And really debated whether to even go to university, advice from lots of different family members and godparents and things like that to kind of say: Do I want to take that step to go to university? because I kind of had this burning ambition to get out there and to get on with life, if that makes sense.

Andy: 4:53

It absolutely makes sense. Any idea where that came from? Or did just come from within somehow?

Kit Wisdom: 4:58

I don't know. I think my grandparents always had really kind of strong work ethic, they would definitely do as, as my parents were, I find it difficult to sit still. So we're always doing stuff, whether we're doing stuff to the house, or whether we're doing stuff with the children, whether it's shorter term projects, or long term, longer term projects. I'm always kind of like, right, what's next? What can we? How can we make things better do things differently? So I think that kind of burned desire is still there today. It's not that I'm fidgety or, you know, like to have some downtime. It's important, I think, to have downtime, whether that's in the garden doing stuff again, but it's you know, it's important to have that mindfulness and that, that headspace. So yeah, relaxing is important sure, but it's maybe a different type of relaxing, it's not sat on a lounger or somewhere.

Andy: 5:48

It's active.

Kit Wisdom: 5:50

Yeah, indeed, yes, it is active.

Andy: 5:53

What sort of expectations were there on you, when you were growing up? Did you have a sense that certain things were expected of you?

Kit Wisdom: 6:03

Yeah, I think there was always an expectation to work hard, naturally, that things aren't given to you that you have to kind of work and strive for that. I definitely took that from my parents, I could see my father living away from home a little bit to provide for the family. They were always very conscious of their expenditure, always conscious of the future, having a right balanced approach. So always kind of hard working. I remember my dad said, yeah, as a contractor, you can spend all the money you earn, but you don't know whether you're going to get a contract in six months time. Yeah, so I think that's always been very important to one focus on getting on with something else achieving delivering something and I thnk that work ethic comes in, but it's also balanced with a, you know, that work may not always be there. So there's a level headedness, suppose about it and understanding how hard it is to achieve certain things.

Andy: 7:03

Does that stay with you today? Have you inherited that prudence, if you like?

Kit Wisdom: 7:10

Yeah, to some extent, most definitely. You kind of that, then becomes a foundation and a bedrock, I think prudence is possibly the wrong the wrong word. For me, it's a balance it's a balance of well, knowing how far you can push things, and keeping things in, in control.

Andy: 7:29

So when you did your research of family members about whether you should go to university, what was the feedback and guidance that you got?

Kit Wisdom: 7:38

That generally it was, the feedback was, 'Oh, I wish I'd gone to university, because in later life, in particular, I think it would have opened doors for me'. So there was a camp there. And then there was also another camp of, I think, some of the most successful people that I know, barely got out of secondary school, very entrepreneurial people. And you can see that disposition that they have, allows them to be entrepreneurial, allows them to be successful. And the entrepreneurial isn't always I think, in today's world, entrepreneurial can be very much, 'I've set this up now I'm going to go and set the next thing up'. So some of these people have set their own businesses up and run those businesses for 30 years, come 40 years, and been very successful out out of the back of it, but they may not have gone to further education, yet exceptionally successful. So I think I had quite a balance of feedback that came to me, I took the Okay, I'm gonna go to university because I think overall, it would be a good experience for me a rounding experience. And I went to university that wasn't actually too far away from home. It was a campus based university close to Windsor called Royal Holloway. And it was one of the top universities of the course that I was doing. It's kind of the third best rated University for geography in the country. And that was really what was kind of pulling me towards it was the campus based nature so I could be away from home yet, not dramatically, a long way away from home. And their kind of expertise in certain areas of geography that I was keen on.

Andy: 9:21

How did you decide what you were going to study?

Kit Wisdom: 9:23

It was what I enjoyed, and it is what I enjoy. I think it's very practical. It's very relevant to to our world and the environment in which we live. Yet elements of it were historical geography, some of the courses I took were around kind of Victorian deprivation in particular. So it wasn't always about the here and now it's very much about a broad range of topics, but to me very relevant, I can relate to them. I could I could understand them in a positive way. But I had no idea what that would then lead to to be frank. I recognise it was a course that wasn't going to take me into a particular career, unless I wanted to go into geology and be a geologist or be a teacher, perhaps to teach geography. That definitely wasn't the route for me. But I just knew that I enjoyed this particular topic, this is the best topic that I could focus on and engage with.

Andy: 10:15

And there's a lot of sense in picking something that you can engage with, gives you a good chance of getting a good result. And when you came to the end, how clear were your thoughts then on what you were going to do for your career?

Kit Wisdom: 10:28

They weren't terribly clear, I must say, I've, I've worked to some extent, outside of the course as well. So I had a weekend job and evening job as many students do, but I think that kind of work ethic carried on through.

Andy: 10:43

What were you doing just quickly out of interest?

Kit Wisdom: 10:45

I was working, for in the UK, there is a shop called Marks and Spencers. I was working in Marks and Spencers and then kind of worked my way up to kind of supervisor level for weekend cover primarily. But that was just to help to have a certain lifestyle, I suppose at university and and also goes to this point of this, not fidgeting but always needs to be doing something. So that led to actually led to me applying for a graduate scheme with Marks and Spencers and you think Ah great, you know, great organisation, we went up to London, we had a couple of days assessment centre and put you up in a hotel and all all great, lovely. I didn't get through. And that will I think was that was really challenging, because you're like, but this is the company I've engaged with for the last three or four years, I have progressed locally, you get loads of great feedback locally. But then you you don't want me.

Andy: 11:39

Did that come as a bit of a surprise then?

Kit Wisdom: 11:41

It was a little bit, I suppose it's more of a disappointment that comes to you primarily at the time. But then that led me to apply for other graduate schemes. And that led me to my first job, which I got and started before I'd even graduated.

Andy: 11:58

Okay, let's just before we get to there, Have you any idea why you didn't get the M&S graduate position?

Kit Wisdom: 12:06

I think I was just not the clearly I wasn't the particular fit that they were looking for. And that's okay. It's important to remember that I think sometimes when you get knocked back from opportunities, actually, you may not be the fit they're looking for. And I think in hindsight, they definitely weren't the fit that I was looking for.

Andy: 12:26

Did you change anything for the next opportunities that you went for?

Kit Wisdom: 12:32

I think if anything, it made me hungrier, it made me hungry to go and get something which has been kind of positive roller coaster ever since.

Andy: 12:42

So what was the one that you got that you started before you even graduated?

Kit Wisdom: 12:46

So I applied for the Enterprise rent a car graduate scheme, I don't even know how I came across it really, but I really engaged in the message that they put out that you could kind of you can come in, you could run one of their businesses after a period of time. And then there could be many other opportunities and roles that you could that you can move into. And that really sang to me as a really positive thing for me to engage my time in and engage my career with. Yeah, that was one of the buying sides from my side. Plus, they had a branch that was about a mile journey away from my parents house. So okay, this is a, this is a bonus also.

Andy: 13:25

Yes, a good place to start. And saw you get into the industry straight away that you're in now.

Kit Wisdom: 13:31

Exactly. And there are other graduate schemes that I applied for. And I think it's really difficult for graduates. You are one of many, and you really are trying to stand out. And I think that can be a challenge, particularly if you're in a degree or in a topic that doesn't necessarily have a natural career path. I just associated personally geography with, okay, you could be a teacher, or you could perhaps go and work in planning in a local council or local authority. So there's courses career paths, I'm not trying to be negative about Geography. Geography is great. I really enjoyed geography. But there wasn't necessarily in the general business, there wasn't necessarily a simple career path that I think you can step into. Whereas if you studied law, you're gonna go ahead and be a solicitor or maybe I simplify it.

Andy: 14:20

I understand the point that you're making some academic paths have a clearer career direction associated with them. And it sounds as though you could have been in retail management, had things landed differently. The fact that you're in automotive, it wasn't something you'd wanted to do since you were a boy, that opportunity came up and it fitted well for various reasons.

Kit Wisdom: 14:44

Yeah, I'd always been interested in cars. And my father had always taken me to a car auction to go and buy his next car. We would go we walk the lanes we would go and see the cars there was always some kind of connection with my grandfather was a black cabbie in London. So there was always this kind of thing going on with, with automotive in some particular way. And other parts of the family was involved in in a local VW dealership. So there was always this connection. So I suppose I naturally found my way without knowing it.

Andy: 15:20

Yeah, that's subliminal.

Kit Wisdom: 15:22

Yeah, into the industry and, but to some extent, it was tenuous, because it's car rental. So you know, it's not like you're remarketing a vehicle or selling a new vehicle, or even supporting that provision of that vehicle through dealership, it was maybe a step away from that around providing mobility for people,

Andy: 15:41

How was the reality then at Enterprise compared with the picture they painted that had attracted you to it in the first

Kit Wisdom: 15:47

At first, it was a challenge, the business was place? growing in the UK very, very quickly, had some big insurance contracts that they had had won. So it was just, I think there's a lot of disruption within the network, a lot of challenges around retaining people. So I was an incrop of the new recruits to help to manage some of this business. And it wasn't quite what it was built to be. That's in the first three or four months. But I think what's important is you don't make a knee jerk reaction, you kind of stick with it for a period of time, you've got to kind of let this bed down. Because those first three or four months, I was primarily driving people around cleaning cars, doing the very, very, very front end operational pieces that you wouldn't have necessarily expected or what was billed to you as part of the promotional piece. But quite quickly, there was a change in leadership. And some people that were like, No, I can buy into you as an individual as in buying into me, so that if you're, I think I can sponsor you, I think I can develop you in the right way. And it really went from strength to strength from that point onwards. So that was a real, I suppose of a first true example of where a strong leader or somebody with a vision comes in, wants to galvanise a team together, and wants to make a go at building a business, a go at making something of their career, and of the people around them. And that was really where it turned because you could have very easily said, I really don't want to be driving people backwards and forwards to a body shop every day, you know, that's all I am, I'm a glorified taxi. But that change in that structure that change locally, after about three or four months really meant that actually, we can make something of this.

Andy: 17:33

Yeah, were you still driving people to and from Body Shop?

Kit Wisdom: 17:37

A little bit yeah. You're exactly right, but not as much, then there's more of a focal point of right. Okay, where's the career going? How can we get you to the to the next level, and then in quite quick succession, ended up being promoted to an Assistant Branch Manager, and then to a Branch Manager. And this is all within 18 months of being with the organisation, and two branches that were in communities that were very different to the one that I grew up in, perhaps. So some different challenges and different leadership challenges that were given. So the overall experience in those first couple of years with enterprise was really, really positive. And really helped to set the groundwork for me, and the trajectory for my career.

Andy: 18:23

So at a quite an early age, you'd have had responsibility for a branch and for the people in that branch, we're talking early 20s still.

Kit Wisdom: 18:31

Yeah, 22 I was branch manager of their West Croydon location, running 250 cars, about 11 staff, you're responsible for your P&L, you're responsible for your profit and loss, okay, there are some corporate pieces that are managed for you cars are purchased for you and landed with you. But it's your responsibility to manage your utilisation your responsibly to manage how profitable these cars are going to be for you. In a way, it's like running a franchise without all of the upside of all of the risk associated with running that franchise, but it gave me the experience and the colour the white sheet of paper if you'd like to go and build something within a framework, so in a controlled way. And I think some of my experiences working with Marks and Spencers leading a team be it a localised team of colleagues from different demographics and different age groups really then supported also with leading the team at Enterprise.

Andy: 19:27

And how long did you do that for?

Kit Wisdom: 19:29

I was operationally in the branches about two and a half years, three years.

Andy: 19:35

And what happened next?

Kit Wisdom: 19:36

Then I suppose I was, don't think I really want to do this forever. I think some people have a disposition for it highly operational, sometimes a challenge to be as strategic as you want to be. So then I moved into an account management position. And it was actually one of the first I think the first account management position that Enterprise had had in the UK. It was kind of a new role that was created and focused primarily on their public sector contracts. So lots of central government, home office prison service, those sorts of large contracts to support the ongoing management of those relationships.

Andy: 20:14

So not on a site anymore? Travelling around visiting?

Kit Wisdom: 20:18

Exactly, yeah, still working from a site. But yeah, exactly engaging more from a commercial perspective towards enterprises, larger contracts, you got to understand Enterprise are very decentralised as a business, regional businesses, in effect, run so seven or eight regional businesses with Enterprise at that particular time in the UK. And the regional areas would be responsible for even national contracts, because that's where that head office was based. So we were London and the Southeast one of the biggest regions and do some of these contracts of course sit within that area. And the team simply needed a team to manage those. And that's where I kind of met one of my strongest leaders that I've engaged with a chap called Adrian Bewley, who was the group of corporate sales manager at the time, and needed somebody to help him to manage some of these larger contracts.

Andy: 21:07

Did you lose your team responsibility, your leadership responsibility, then when you took on that role?

Kit Wisdom: 21:12

Yeah, I did. So it was, that was then very much a standalone role and influencing teams on the ground as opposed to having direct responsibility for them.

Andy: 21:21

Was that something you had to think hard about when you did it? Or was it a clear? No, this is a good opportunity now?

Kit Wisdom: 21:26

It felt like a good opportunity to move. It was something I suppose I've been thinking about moving on from the organisation for some time, and this opportunity was presented for me, let's say.

Andy: 21:37

Right, saves you having to make a more drastic move. And what did you learn in that role?

Kit Wisdom: 21:44

I suppose that professionalised me a little bit more in terms of how to deal with corporate organisations how to manage and implement large contracts that have been agreed, agreed by other people. So how do you make some of the magic happen? That was agreed by somebody else? To some extent.

Andy: 22:01

Is that an enterprise phrase making the magic happen? Or is that a Kit one?

Kit Wisdom: 22:06

It's just a bit of a Kit phrase.

Andy: 22:09

Okay, and how did you get on with it?

Kit Wisdom: 22:10

It was great. Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and spent a good couple of years doing that and taking on more customers and more clients, and then engaged with the National Sales Team at Enterprise and actually then transitioned over to the National Sales Team as one of their first National Account Managers. So again, it's kind of, I think, a bit of a transition for Enterprise in terms of how they were managing their business a little bit. So we were leading the way, really, and making a new ground for them.

Andy: 22:39

So before we move on to that national sales position, what was it that Adrian Bewley did that was impressive?

Kit Wisdom: 22:46

He just really bought into you as an individual and wasn't afraid to give you feedback, didn't do it in a aggressive way, or trying to score points way or, you know, it was just honestly wanted the best for the business, and was really committed to the business and still is committed to the business. He's moved up the ranks within Enterprise, I think now to European role, you know, he made you feel like you were valued. He made you feel like, and the rest of his team, he would galvanise the team together, absolutely bind to you, give you the breadth and the ability to go and propose decisions to him or make proposals to in which you can then both decide on the right outcome, and then to implement them. So I really flourished under that, in a way and really bought into that. And that, I suppose, added another layer to the onion of my leadership, because I could see the way that he was influencing me, influencing others and helping to really kind of galvanise a really positive team.

Andy: 23:48

And did you adopt then some of his behaviours?

Kit Wisdom: 23:51

They've definitely seeped in, under the skin. And yeah, for sure, there'll be Adrian behaviours that I've picked up on. But with leadership, I think you need to have already a disposition to want to lead people. Yeah, and a disposition to lead people. I think it can be coached for sure. But I think some people will have it and some people won't. But people just don't want to lead. And that's fine. That's not a problem with that. I think, you know, as businesses you admire leaders, you want a leader at the front. Yeah, absolutely. And a leader within your particular areas, but not everybody wants to lead.

Andy: 24:29

It's reminded me of an expression someone told me years ago, which was something along the lines of every a lot of people want to be the leader. Not as many people want to do leader.

Kit Wisdom: 24:41

Yeah, I think that's a that's a really nice way to sum it up.

Andy: 24:46

So what we're seeing is clearly you were adding value and flourishing under Adrian Bewley's leadership, more opportunity comes along the business is changing the way it does things and opportunities come with that and you're seen as somebody to be developed? So did you put your hand up for that role? Did you have to go to a lot of effort? Or was were you tapped on the shoulder and said, this might be something good for you as a next step.

Kit Wisdom: 25:11

I think to some extent, I was just picking up more and more customers, and it was a natural move, sure, a role formally is opened, and yes, where you apply for the role and so on. But it was a bit of a natural progression to then move into that role into the national sales team. I think sometimes by doing the role by being, the role whether it was given to you or not, you can create that position.

Andy: 25:36

I love that I love that you brought that up. I love anything about ownership, anything about having a view, yeah, having a vision, using your imagination, working out what could be and then doing things without being asked without being told creating. Yeah, taking responsibility, making it as easy as possible for people to see you in a certain position. So they don't really have to imagine it. It's like when you say, you know, dress for the role that you want, not the one you've got, it's just makes it easier for the people who might be in a position to give you that role to see you in it. They think, oh, he looks the part. And he's he's already doing most of it. So let's give him the the role.

Kit Wisdom: 26:17

Sure. Yeah. So there's less of a risk there or

Andy: 26:18

And something you said about leaving the daily this, as you mentioned, that I was thinking, that is to some extent, what Adrian opened my eyes to or created an operational role was that sometimes you couldn't be as environment in which it was easy to be accountable and easy to own things. It wasn't a difficult or negative environment. I think there are some leaders who may say, Okay, well, you own this now, as if it's like a threat. Yeah, that wasn't definitely not what what Adrian will create, it was a positive ownership, and it kind of lead you towards it towards a natural disposition that perhaps was there anyway, just kind of fostered it. So I was thinking of as you were talking I was thinking, that Adrian accountability, ownership all into his kind of leadership style. strategic as you might like to have been. So that hints to me that you had ideas, you had things you wanted to have a go at, things you wanted to do a little bit differently, perhaps. So that was coming from within you, you're able to visualise different ways of doing things.

Kit Wisdom: 27:24

Absolutely agree. Yeah, yeah. It's more that leaders, good leaders will create the environment or endear the environment within you, or the other traits within you that are already there. They're sponsoring you in a way, or they give they're setting the environment up where you can do those things, and take the risk, because you know, you're not going to get told off for doing so. Yeah, and as a junior, as a relatively junior person at that time, you know, I think that will put people off, if the if it's not a safe environment or conducive environment to taking those risks. Why would you?

Andy: 28:01

Absolutely, completely agree Kit, terms about creating the environment, so that people can perform at a high level. And it sounds like because Adrian had demonstrated his individual care for you. So if he cared about you, and your development, the motivation, when he did give you feedback could be well received, because you knew what the intent was, you know, this is in my best interest. This guy's looking out for me, he wants me to do well. So I'm going to listen to this.

Kit Wisdom: 28:31

Exactly. It's constructive. It's coming from a positive place. Even if it's negative feedback, is constructive feedback, it's coming, it's coming from a good place. And then there's trust that's created by that between that partnership or between that relationship. And then with the trust, ultimately comes respect. So there's a couple of things going on, isn't there, but ultimately, it's around as a leader, you've got to open up and let people feel comfortable that they can have those sorts of conversations with you. And then what can I get their head bitten off or whatever? Sometimes they have to do to be bitten off, but at least you can do it in a constructive way.

Andy: 29:08

Can you think of a specific piece of feedback that he gave you something that you remember learning from him?

Kit Wisdom: 29:15

I think the one the one thing that we did quite early on was we would meet once a week, and we would literally have some clear objectives for each week, and they'd be broken down to some very simple things. I need x to be y by this point, and we would just have that regular dialogue, you know, he would give that to me as a task. I'd go away, get it done. I'd be bringing my own actions to that session. It would just become a yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. This is really in the early days, right. Perhaps it is not a very exciting answer, but it was more some of the basic principles that we established, which then allowed that environment to grow.

Andy: 29:56

You were clear on what you were supposed to be doing and how you were doing against it. So in those early days where you could easily get a little bit lost in any role at an early age, you were getting enough clarity on okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And you're getting feedback on this is how I'm doing against expectations, which is very helpful for enabling you to perform.

Kit Wisdom: 30:19

Yeah and I think it sounds very mundane, right? when I'm, when I'm saying I go, Oh, gosh, that's really boring. But it's so fundamental to what you do as a leader, or that relationship that you have. And I think it's too easy to forget it. Because it is perhaps a bit mundane. You can think I'm gonna jump that bit and go straight to the transformational stuff. No, that's, that's not going to work, you need to get the basics, right. Most definitely. And that also sounds really corny, just as I'm saying it, but you absolutely have to get those basic pieces, right, and drive that repetition. So it becomes second nature for that colleague to do. That was really the start of the relationship that we had. And that then led to the trust and then altering that to the respect and the ability just to do more and more.

Andy: 31:14

Yeah, so he was finding out what he could leave with you?

Kit Wisdom: 31:18

I think so i think so. That didn't just happen for a month, then not

Andy: 31:19

How where you are at what's his starting point? Where are we at with this guy? What's he capable of? How reliable is he? happen. That happened for a whole relationship, our whole working relationship. Right, but the tasks would have...

Kit Wisdom: 31:37

Been okay, still weekly one to ones for sure. And they wouldn't have been prescriptive tasks, they would have been tasks that I would have brought to the table, this is what I'm doing. But it just drives that I suppose for 20 odd something, it definitely drives that right behaviour. But I think for whatever age, it can drive the right behaviour.

Andy: 31:53

The fact is, if people don't know exactly what they're supposed to be doing, or how, especially if they don't know how they're doing, then after a while, they pause and start to spend more time wondering how they're doing and second guessing how they might be doing and just slow right down. Whereas if you're getting constant feedback that No, no, that's good, left a bit, right, a bit away you go, you can keep the pace up.

Kit Wisdom: 32:19

So with my teams, I like to have a weekly one to one, whether that's half an hour or 15 minutes, where are we what we're doing great. Staying in touch with people and communicating with your colleagues that you're working with is fundamental things change in business all the time. And I think it is important to your point around Ooh am I going in the right direction, or should I do that? And that drives anxiety right within people? And that actually locks people down and slows people down. Those basics are so fundamental. And the word basics is I think it's a disservice because you think, oh, it's simple.

Andy: 32:55

We call them fundamentals. Yeah. And you use the word fundamental.

Kit Wisdom: 33:00

I would agree that they are fundamentals and they need to be worked at all the time. Because it's too easy, I think, sometimes to let them go by the wayside because you're too busy doing something else. Yeah, you've got chess pieces on the board. Everybody needs to be working together as a team, so that ultimately deliver that end result.

Andy: 33:20

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsors. Could you use some additional experience resources, you can work alongside you and your team on a flexible basis to help you achieve your priorities. I started Aquilae in 2016. And since then, we've worked internationally with established automotive OEMs, EV startups, fintechs, and insurance companies to achieve their unique mobility goals. Aquilae team members are highly experienced senior leaders with complementary areas of expertise who've run businesses and divisions internationally in our industry. Because we've all had many years experience of operating in the industry ourselves. We don't just advise our clients on what to do. Instead, we tend to work alongside them delivering their specific projects, we're happy to develop strategy, and we're equally happy to then get involved delivering the plan. Mobility businesses are all about people, processes and technology. We leverage our Aquilae Academy for people development, and Aquilae Consulting for those wider business topics. To give you some examples of the sort of work we do through the Aquilae Academy, we work with CEOs and their first line to develop cohesive leadership teams. We create continuous learning environments for leadership development, we develop bespoke programmes to improve the performance of specific teams and we provide one to one coaching for high performing individuals. To give you some examples of the sort of work we do through Aquilae Consulting. We help create paperless digital end to end customer journeys. For direct to consumer finance and subscription models. We conduct strategic reviews. For example, one client asked us what's the best financial services structure for each market we operate in. We produce feasibility studies for new market entry, we advise on and support regulatory applications. We help design, implement and monitor regulatory compliance procedures. We're on tenders and vendor selection projects we conduct end to end operational reviews to improve effectiveness and efficiency. If you're looking for some help with people or business topics and you like the idea of having some additional very experienced resources, who can work flexibly alongside you, please get in touch with me for a conversation, you can email me directly at andy@aquilae.co.uk. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for Career-view Mirror. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on, ASKE was founded by Andrew Macmillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers from my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business. ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ask are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. Talk me through the rest of your time at Enterprise.

Kit Wisdom: 37:23

So from the National Account Manager side and then a role for an Implementation Manager came up. It's quite a quite a senior role within the Enterprise National Sales community. Absolutely went through a long kind of interview process, nailed it got that job. I did that job for about two and a half, three years. And then whilst doing that job, got involved in launching car sharing in the UK. And some of that had come from my previous roles were kind of carried it through a little bit, but launched a connected car. So you make a booking online and the booking goes to the car. We had our first car that I brought to the UK with the help of the colleagues in the US. I just got on did it found a supplier that could install the hardware, got the website set up with our first car sending bookings to it on Christmas Eve I think actually, and yet launched a scheme with a particular customer account. So in Woking, Woking Borough Council, and had our first kind of fleet of cars, small fleet, three cars, that is a fleet, I think three definitely constitutes a fleet. And that's grown subsequently into Enterprise Carshare. In the UK, which is something of a big thing, I think.

Andy: 38:44

Yeah, that's pretty cool thing to.

Kit Wisdom: 38:46

Yeah, claim to fame, I launched the first it was WeCar, it was called WeCar back then we launched the launch the first cars in the UK.

Andy: 38:54

And what year was that?

Kit Wisdom: 38:57

2009 2010.

Andy: 39:00

Right. And what happened after that?

Kit Wisdom: 39:03

Apart from setting up different large national contracts, be them for insurance companies or, or the leasing segment or large corporate clients. That was where my that was my final role at enterprise.

Andy: 39:17

You said sorry, just you nailed the implementation manager role after quite a lengthy interview process. Were there any roles that you went for in enterprise that you didn't get on the way to that one?

Kit Wisdom: 39:33

No, there was a role that I was going to go for as a Branch Manager in Bermondsey, which is just kind of the south bank of the Thames. And I was about to go for that. Well I went for that, and then all of a sudden, I was locally offered a job with an Enterprise for for one of the earlier Branch Manager days but know that there weren't any roles that I'd applied at Enterprise and and didn't get.

Andy: 39:59

Okay. So when it came to leave Enterprise, what was the catalyst for that? What were you thinking and what happened?

Kit Wisdom: 40:05

I think I was just getting a bit. What's next? You know, what's the next thing. Enterprise has always been great at giving me new challenges and new opportunities. I was there for seven years. And in that time, been a Branch Manager, Account Manager, a variety of different camp manager roles, and then kind of implementation, and the launch of the car sharing scheme. And I was kind of itching for something else. Maybe it was the age, maybe it was the just got married, I think just about to have our first child. And I gave a presentation to Paul Hollick and Matt Sutherland from Alphabet, they came in to the office and I was giving a presentation on on the car sharing scheme, which I was asked to give. So I gave the presentation, they're both looking at me and kind of an odd way from the other side of the room. And then a couple of days later, I got a phone call. And that was to discuss an opportunity to get Alphabet and a move or transition kind of was born out of born out of that combination of the desire to do something different. And of course, the opportunity in this a warm lead, if you like is where it came from.

Andy: 41:19

That's what I'm thinking what a great opportunity for both you and them. You to be on your feet doing what you do. And yes, there'd be I'm sure a certain amount of, say, anxiety, but you you're presenting, you're you're trying to win some business, I guess, or you're selling a proposition, but you're still, it's not quite the same as going for an interview. And you didn't have that in your mind at the same time they're looking at you and getting you to see you in action, in a very real, not a role play. This is a real scenario so that it kind of de-risks it from.

Kit Wisdom: 41:55

I was a bit grumpy actually giving the presentation.

Andy: 41:58

Were you?

Kit Wisdom: 41:59

I was sat in the room thinking why on earth are we Enterprise, why on earth would we want to offer one of our crown jewels, one of the newest things to this leasing company? You know, normally leasing companies are buying rental from us, I think this is like one of our newest things, newest products, and we've not even really launched it fully. So I was sat there, like, why am I doing this? And why are these guys so interested in and, you know, I don't want to give everything away. So you know. Yeah, so exactly right. It wasn't a traditional interview. And I was a little bit miffed at the time, I was a bit like, what's going on?. But obviously, I made some form of impression.

Andy: 42:50

So the time was right, you were thinking, what's next family circumstances changing? You'd had a good run at Enterprise and they had kept the variety there the progression? There it was, you're getting good value. If you're like, as someone who wants to get experience. Yeah, nevertheless, time come to change. And this just through going about your daily business, you you got approached to come and join the team? And was that an easy decision? Then how did that process go?

Kit Wisdom: 43:19

It was incredibly difficult. It was such a difficult decision. Like I really enjoyed my time at Enterprise, I worked my way up the chain, you know, going through the grades, getting to a senior position with Enterprise, and really valued my colleagues really enjoyed, you know, working with my colleagues really enjoyed the culture and the opportunities that Enterprise had given me. But I really kind of had this I want, but I want to do something else. And perhaps Enterprise isn't what isn't moving as quickly as me wanting to move on. So yeah, it was a real challenge. So I had to really get advice from my, my wife, a lot, and from friends and from family to kind of, you know, is this, this is the move that I want to want to make?

Andy: 44:06

What was your wife's advice?

Kit Wisdom: 44:08

She was very certain that I should leave and do something else.

Andy: 44:13

Right on what grounds?

Kit Wisdom: 44:16

I think perhaps she saw that I wasn't perhaps as happy as I had been. And I think I knew that I was really struggling with letting go. And I think deep down I knew that which is why of course I was entertaining the conversations in the first place.

Andy: 44:30

I think there's a couple of really great points I like there. The reason I dug into the wife question is because the number of times my wife has while she's going on as far as saying, Well, you need to do something I cannot put up with you being like you know, you need to get something else. The other is this realisation that with change. It's actually not about thoughts of taking on something new, that make it difficult. It's thoughts about letting go of stuff that we've got hold of tightly. It's more about, you know, I'm going to have to let go of all this, if I'm going to enjoy some of that.

Kit Wisdom: 45:18

That's right and I relish the new stuff, because I relish making it work. I relish achieving it. Yeah, I relish the challenge, not the fact that it's new and shiny. Yeah. And that and so the accountability bit comes in, the ownership bit comes in for me personally. But yeah, it was the letting go of the colleagues and the culture that you've grown up within, if you like, as it being a first role. So although it's the first company, seven years, different roles, slightly different cultures, but still within that framework. What's, Is there something you want to let go of you have really, in seven years worked your way up that particular pyramid if you like, so? Yeah, the letting go is you're absolutely right. That's the biggest piece.

Andy: 46:05

It's that familiarity that you have.

Kit Wisdom: 46:08

Yes, I think that definitely played a part of it. It wasn't that I didn't want the challenge, as I said I absolutely relish the challenge of something different and new. But I think it was an early phase of my career. And you kind of grown up as a professional person within that organisation within that culture. And there is a really strong culture in Enterprise, it's a meritocracy. What was then they really didn't recruit from outside, you had to go and join the operational branches and work your way up the ranks. So unless you were a legal colleague, or a trained accountant, they were really the only roles that you would you would go in, be recruited in from outside. So a number of the teams have people that have worked in the branches, the IT teams, the even the finance teams, to learn and understand the business.

Andy: 47:01

Yeah and it's a US business.

Kit Wisdom: 47:03

It's a privately owned US business, you kind of feel the the family feel and the the ownership piece there.

Andy: 47:11

And How then did you find the culture when you move to Alphabet, which was a German business versus an American business?

Kit Wisdom: 47:21

I think the Alphabet culture was great. It was it was a different take, it was a bit refreshing, in a way because it was perhaps it was something different, something new, the Alphabet, at that time was a smaller kind of submarine entity, if you like within within a much wider group. So had its own subculture had its own way of doing things. It's its own particular culture within again, within that framework of a wider group. So you have to readjust yourself and make new networks make new connections with people. And I was quite quickly, the role that I was coming into was both the role based in the UK, but it was working with an international team. So we were, we were launching car sharing for Alphabet. And that was working with colleagues from France and Germany, as a core initial team, and then they expanded to other markets. And I really, really enjoyed working with the different cultures working with the different colleagues from different marketplaces, if not only sometimes you are translating, in a way, in some of those workshops and in terms of how things are working, or how this should work, or what your target picture is going to be.

Andy: 48:40

So that was a new dimension for you working with those different international colleagues?

Kit Wisdom: 48:45

Yeah.

Andy: 48:45

And clearly leveraging the car sharing experience that you were bringing from Enterprise, were you quite confident about the value you were adding?

Kit Wisdom: 48:54

I was confident that I had some value to add. And I had a particular take, I'd kind of only been working on car sharing for a couple of years, and that it was only a small, it was kind of a sideline, if you like it wasn't my core job. My core job was something else. So it was something to keep me interested, if you like, within the Enterprise world. So I was conscious that yes, I had some knowledge to bring but I wasn't the expert necessarily, or the only expert in the particular matter. And at the time, car sharing was was very much an emerging product in the marketplace and nobody had done it in the particular way that Alphabet was doing it in terms of its leasing product for a corporate client.

Andy: 49:37

Right.

Kit Wisdom: 49:38

So that was definitely unique.

Andy: 49:41

Were there any sort of key learnings from that transition into a different organisation?

Kit Wisdom: 49:48

I think that it was a very positive experience. I thoroughly enjoyed working with international colleagues and it went on for a number of years and Key Learning? The thing that comes to mind is there's another world out there. Yeah, kind of been very much in this Enterprise world for a period of time. Like, wow, okay. Yes, there is a different way. But there are other ways of doing business. There's other ways of structuring organisations and other cultures that are out there, which are good to learn from and good to engage with. And to some extent it was a Come on, get on with it, which was great. So it's a slightly different felt like a different pace, if you like.

Andy: 50:33

So did you have any longer term plans at this stage?

Kit Wisdom: 50:38

I think at that particular stage of my career is around diversifying myself a little bit further, was around working for a bigger, perhaps more complicated organisation, which had a number of different products and different companies doing different things. Whereas I'd been very much in the car rental camp, nothing wrong with that at all. But you know, for me, I wanted to diversify myself out to learn new things really.

Andy: 51:06

Learn, diversify, increase your own value.

Kit Wisdom: 51:10

At the roots of it, yes. But I wanted to challenge myself. What's next sort of piece, so I didn't feel I could get that where I was. This was a, you could call it a distraction, if you like. But it was a it was something else to challenge myself with. And the Alphabets world and the BMW Group world allowed me to do that, you know, and again, I had a great boss in Paul Hollick for a period of time. And then Matt Sutherland for a much longer piece of time, who I created the confidence that they had in me, to then offer me different roles, and to do different things in my career at Alphabet. And I had a variety of different roles at Alphabet, that were topics that I would never have considered before. Things that I would, even of dreams we've been interested in. And sometimes those roles are the ones that are the most transformational, particularly if you can grab the bull by the horns and make a success out of them.

Andy: 52:18

So I'm picturing you now almost in a T shirt that says what next, on the front and your managers recognising okay, if we've got something new, why don't we give it to Kit, because he's not going to be fazed by it. And there's a good chance he'll get his head around it and work out a way to get it done.

Kit Wisdom: 52:37

That's the way I see myself now, whether they saw me that way. I don't know. But yeah, I think you're right. And if you ask the likes of Matt, he'd most probably say, Yeah, I knew this was a challenge. I knew this person was moving on. And we had a confidence in a safe pair of hands that could deliver this thing for us that we needed to be delivered.

Andy: 52:56

I was having a conversation with someone this morning about superstars and rock stars, which are a concept that I believe we're talking about a book called Radical Candor. And this idea that you've got rock stars who deliver for you, very liable, absolutely necessary in the business, and happy to stay doing certain things over a period of time. And then superstars who equally valuable, like to move on like to change roles regularly. And what's next, you know, what's the next thing? So it sounds like using that model, you were in the superstar mould of, you know, I've done this What what are you gonna give me next? And the you had the playground and the opportunities to do that in Alphabet and BMW. So I know you're not there now. So what happened was a case of what next again, I want to challenge myself again, we'll get more breadth, how did your next opportunity arise?

Kit Wisdom: 54:03

So it came out of a role that I really didn't want. So at Alphabet I stayed in the in the kind of mobility space that did the car sharing, ease launching AlphaCity, then launched an E mobility product called Alpha Electric and then moved into manage their rental proposition growing that successfully. And then a chap who was my peer, called Martin Gallop was looking after all the vehicle operations. So all the really exciting stuff like maintenance, tyres, or, you know, accident management and fines. And I look at his role and go, I really don't want to do that role. I respected Martin, so much knowledge, but I just thought that role, I just don't want to do that role. Martin was about to retire, or was coming up to retirement. And Matt said, Oh, I'd like you to do that role. And I was like I no, I mean, that is not no. It's like one of the biggest people areas that you've got topics that I'm not familiar with, or even interested in, really? Anyway, I got the role or took the role, Martin exit stage left to a happy retirement. And I never looked back. I absolutely loved it. I thoroughly enjoyed the role. I enjoyed the commerciality of the role, I enjoyed the managing different topics that are very, you know, although I'm familiar with them, of course, running rental fleets and managing rental vehicles, familiar with the toys, but I wasn't an expert in buying tires or an expert in, you know, servicing vehicles or fine management. But I loved it, I love the difference that it gave to me and the different topics I need to learn about quite quickly and become kind of an expert in quite quickly. And the scale of budgets and kind of commercial responsibility that you have, plus all of a sudden, 40 colleagues, 60 colleagues, 80 colleagues as we grow over time to manage and to and to lead. And I thoroughly enjoyed that.

Andy: 56:24

I love that as an example of how, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, if you like how we can't always know what our role is going to be like until

Kit Wisdom: 56:34

I was proven so wrong. Exactly. I like to think that I made the role look sexy, but it No, it was the role itself. It was yeah, you're exactly right. You cannot judge the book by its cover. It was so interesting. And Matt was entirely right. You know, he was like, Yeah, you will really enjoy this role. I was like no way though. The role that Martin does? No. But yeah, absolutely loved it. And a lot of what I do today incorporates those experiences and those learnings that I made. Now, it'd be about seven, seven years ago, I started making those learnings and experiences. And again, that was also an international community that you were a part of, that you would come together and you would share learnings with each other and challenge each other on different ways of doing things that's so valuable in a community like BMW, one marketplace, we'll do it one particular way and another marketplace to do it another particular way. But you'd have this very constructive challenge wasn't always constructive, you would have most times this really constructive challenge. And out of that will be born respect between two quite different colleagues that I'm very thankful for my experiences and learnings from the BMW Group.

Andy: 57:48

It sound like you got an enormous amount from that. And because of Matt Sutherland's, either his insight that you would actually enjoy this more than you think, or his persuasiveness to get you to do it anyway.

Kit Wisdom: 58:05

Most probably his desperation he needed somebody to do it. I don't know. But you're right. You are, all of the above.

Andy: 58:11

How long did you stay doing that?

Kit Wisdom: 58:14

About two and a half, three years, during that particular role as Alphabet about seven in total. And that role lead again to another warm lead if you like, into where I am today, which is Tusker.

Andy: 58:31

Tell me how that happened.

Kit Wisdom: 58:33

So one of the non exec directors at Tusker I was familiar with so a chap called Simon English and we had a chat and all of a sudden that chat turned into a oh there's an opportunity over here, do you think you would be interested? And it was a role that was quite different to what I was doing. But was ultimately Matt's role. Matt's role in a different organisation. Yeah an organisation that has a different culture owned by private equity, and not by a large international global organisation. And yeah, I took the leap, and I got the job.

Andy: 59:14

And how long ago was that?

Kit Wisdom: 59:16

Coming up, five years this August.

Andy: 59:19

And it's been quite a journey?

Kit Wisdom: 59:21

Yeah it has been has been a journey. Again, more learnings, learning topics such as remarketing, which again weren't necessarily an expertise area, purchasing of vehicles. So covering that whole kind of broad operational role.

Andy: 59:38

And what was it like working for or what is it like working? No hang on, what was it like working for a private equity company? Yeah, I can imagine it being quite a different dynamic.

Kit Wisdom: 59:44

Yeah because two months ago, we we successfully sold the business to Lloyds Banking Group. So I think working for private equity was really positive actually, there are points of constructive challenge, but we what private equity does, or in my experience, it gave us as a management team, the free rein to do what we needed to do to make the business successful. And I don't think in my career I've ever had that level of autonomy, let's say, in terms of a management team to go ahead and right, we need to do the following thing within the following amount of time. And that was very positive. Another positive learning. To what extent were you focused on the impact of your actions on the valuation of the business? Did that become a clearer focus? Yes, most definitely. Yeah, you're exactly right, you definitely see your impact onto that valuation. It's less corporate money, let's say, and more your money. Or you can directly see a an impact to the things that you do to the to the bottom line now that the business is complicated. There are many variables that go into making that bottom line, some of those variables go in three years prior or two years prior, right when you're setting a future residual value. So the cycle is can be quite lengthy. And you're not always able to, you might be owning things that were set some years in the past, but you still need to own them, and still need to try and find mitigating solutions for challenges that come up, or investments for future years that you know, are going to take some time to mature and some time to get permission, in my experience in particularly that we had allowed us to do that allowed us as a management team to kind of focus on products, specifically that we deliver and to really double down on it, if you like Tusker's livers is yes, it's leasing, that the nuances in salary sacrifice, leasing, which is different, and has a whole level of complexity towards it, that if it's not done correctly, won't be as successful as you'd want it to be. So there's some things that we have done as a management team in the last four years that are helping to fuel our success now.

Andy: 1:02:21

And think about how along the way you have diversified the onion has grown, if you like, with layers and layers of extra skills, extra industry expertise, subject matter expertise. We're looking for an American company working for a German company working for a British company, and private equity multinational conglomerate. Yeah. And you describe it very steadily, your delivery of it is very measured the experience you've had. Are you generally quite a measured calm, individual?

Kit Wisdom: 1:02:55

You picked up on that. Yeah. Yes, I like to be I think that's just my natural kind of disposition. It's not that I'm forcing anything. And think there have been some challenges in the past couple of years that I think tried all of us with the impact of the pandemic. But I think as a leader, it's really important to stay as measured as you possibly can, even in the face of challenges such as the pandemic, I think keeping a level head is really important. Sometimes. I think that's a detriment. Because I think sometimes people think well does he not not think thats serious. So that's not a topics. But yeah, it's definitely, definitely serious. I remember one of the meetings in the week before the lockdown. And the used market had basically stopped. So we're, you know, we stopped selling cars, because nobody wanted to buy them because it was absolutely on the cards that things were going to change quite quickly. And so I reported this to the board. And I think they all looked at me like, that's a problem, isn't it Kit? And I was like, Well, yes, it is. It is a problem that we will deal with it day by day. And we will ensure that we can liquidate those assets at the right way at the right point, if we're all in agreement to that. So I think sometimes it can be seen as a seen as a negative thing. But I think it's it's more positive than it is negative.

Andy: 1:04:28

Okay. Yeah, I understand that this idea that if you're not demonstrating emotion, do you really care?

Kit Wisdom: 1:04:34

Yeah. So I think, you know, emotional intelligence is really important. And how you talk to me, and how I talk to you can be interpreted in different ways. Right. So I just think that's just one of the interpretations that could come across. But I think for colleagues who aren't in the know or aren't as experienced as others may be or not was informed, being level headed and being calm is fundamental to them, because they'll just mirror your behaviour. Headless Chicken and other people will do so also.

Andy: 1:05:13

Yes. Kit I know that you are only a couple of months into new ownership by Lloyds Banking Group, I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask you what that's like, because that opens up, you know, lots of sensitivities. So maybe in a later conversation, we'll find out how that's going. But I certainly wish you all the best and all your colleagues at Tusker all the best in this next phase of the journey. And thank you very much indeed for joining me today and sharing your career journey and some of the many lessons that you've had along the way as you've grown into the leader that you are now.

Kit Wisdom: 1:05:49

Thank you, Andy its been a real pleasure to spend the time with you. And it's allowed me to remember some things and actually reflect on some things over my career. So yeah, really positive. Yeah, thank you for inviting me.

Andy: 1:06:02

You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy Follows. I hope you enjoyed hearing Kit's story as much as I did, and found some helpful points to reflect on. What next would be the question I associate with Kit after this conversation. He's been navigating a deliberate and measured career journey so far, a little bit of luck or maybe a subliminal interest in cars. So in choosing our industry over other graduate opportunities. Since then, he's delivered in role after role and taken opportunities as they've arisen. I appreciated his acknowledgement that letting go of what we have is the hardest part of a career move. I noticed how his innate desire to continue to challenge himself has ensured that he's maintained momentum throughout his journey. His career has seen him experience a US business a German OEM, a British salary sacrifice leasing specialist, and it will now give him experience within a large bank. If you'd like to reach out to Kit, you'll find his LinkedIn contact details in our show notes. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead, parent or mentor or a friend do you think might also benefit. Thanks for listening.