Pieter Demaeght: How a supportive family, a Growth Mindset and consistent hard work enable an international career in mobility.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Pieter Demaeght.

Pieter is director of mobility at the consultancy DDX, building products and services while serving global customers.

He has a rich international management background and specialises in automotive sales, financial services and customer loyalty.

Pieter's experience spans leading automotive digital transformation at DDX, roles in Sales, Marketing, Finance and Operations at BMW Group Financial Services, and transformation projects for international banks.

He also works as a mentor and coach for young professionals around the world, sharing his international network, experience and growth mindset.

Our conversation covers his challenging childhood dealing with a rare medical condition, his early consulting career, his international experiences with BMW and his recent move back into consulting and back to Europe where he has settled in Portugal.

Enjoy Pieter's story and I invite you as always to reach out and share what resonates with you.

Connect with Pieter on LinkedIn: Pieter Demaeght

Email: Pieter@ddxtransformation.com

Website: DDX

Thank you to our sponsors:

ASKE Consulting 
Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

Aquilae
Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

Episode Directory on Instagram @careerviewmirror  

If you enjoy listening to our guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app. 

Episode recorded on 22 November 2023.

Transcript

Pieter Demaeght: 0:00

They actually got me to go on stage with large karaoke sheets that I had written down on big pieces of paper to sing and to teach everybody to sing happy birthday in Dutch. But looking back at it now, I must have looked like a complete alien in the, because I had so much energy and nervousness and excitement coming into that meeting. They must have looked at me like an alien coming into their team. But luckily an alien with the right attitude.

Aquilae: 0:31

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows.

Andy Follows: 1:02

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful to our guests who generously joined me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers, listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Pieter Demaeght. Pieter is director of mobility at the consultancy DDX building products and services while serving global customers. He has a rich international management background and specialises in automotive sales, financial services and customer loyalty. Peter's experience spans leading automotive digital transformation at ddx roles in sales, marketing, finance and operations at BMW Group financial services and transformation projects for international banks. He also works as a mentor and coach for young professionals around the world sharing his international network experience and growth mindset. Our conversation covers his challenging childhood dealing with a rare medical condition, his early consulting career, his international experiences with BMW and his recent move back into consulting and back to Europe where he settled in Portugal. I enjoyed getting to know Pieter’s story and I invite you as always to reach out and share what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time, Hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted adviser to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. Contact me if you'd like to know more. Hello, Pieter, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Pieter Demaeght: 2:37

Hello, Andy. I’m coming to you today from beautiful Porto in Portugal.

Andy Follows: 2:42

Awesome. I don't think we've had a guest from Portugal before. I'm excited. This is a particularly interesting part of your journey for me, because they've you've set yourself up there relatively recently. So I'm looking forward to that part of the story. But as always, I'd like to start right at the beginning. So where were you born?

Pieter Demaeght: 3:00

I was actually born in Brussels in Belgium.

Andy Follows: 3:03

Tell me a little bit about your family situation. So do you have siblings? Where were you in their sort of pecking order of siblings and what did you see your mum and dad doing those sort of things.

Pieter Demaeght: 3:14

I was born in Brussels in Belgium. My mom and dad were the middle of class. My dad was a notary. My mom was a lawyer. When I was two years old, my brother and sister were born. They're actually twins. So we were a family with three children growing up and living in Brussels in Belgium.

Andy Follows: 3:30

So tell us a little about what was what was it like growing up there in Europe growing in Brussels?

Pieter Demaeght: 3:36

Yeah, the first years of my life. We lived in Brussels. So the capital of Belgium. It was it was nice to grow up. We had family was lots of love in the family. And actually my dad comes from a really large family. He has six brothers and sisters. And I was the first grandchild in that family. So there was also not only within our our little household, but also in the extended family. There was a lot of excitement. And there was a really nice situation to be in.

Andy Follows: 4:02

Yeah, I imagine you were a bit of a celebrity.

Pieter Demaeght: 4:05

I think they sometimes called me the little prince because older brothers or sisters would gather around the table to have a look at the new grandson. So yes, it was it was a good time. I guess it was a bit of a celebrity there.

Andy Follows: 4:19

Excellent. I know you had some challenges, though, when you were growing up. Do you want to tell us about those?

Pieter Demaeght: 4:26

Yeah, so I have an injury. So I was born and when I was one year old, I was diagnosed with a congenital pseudarthrosis is very medical term. And what it means is that my leg was broken. My right leg was broken and it wouldn't grow. It was a very rare condition. It's about one in 2 million that is diagnosed, but it meant that a lot of my childhood was in and out of hospitals in and out of wheelchairs as well, actually from one year old when when the diagnosis was made. Up until 12 years old, so really, my entire childhood had about a dozen of surgeries with this injury. And it also put quite a bit of stress on the family. As I already shared with you, my parents had twins as well. So not only three children under the age of two, but also then me as their oldest child, requiring a lot of attention and driving back and forth from hospitals, on a very regular basis was a painful, I think you forget pain. It's a memory that doesn't luckily, it doesn't last with you. But I'm sure there was a lot of that the treatment that they use for this specific injury was first tested on Russian prisoners. And then they decided to try it on the Belgian, two year old baby. So it wasn't usual. So there was it was definitely a lot of surgeries, a lot of treatment. And I think in a way, what is good about it is that my parents and my grandparents also because my grandma took a lot of care of me as well, when my mom was busy with the twins, they always framed it in a very positive way. So even when there was pain, even when there were challenges, they always focused on the positive parts of going to the hospital, when you get to the hospital and everything goes well, we'll go to the toy store, and you'll get a nice toy. So they were always very supportive and kept me positive throughout this whole experience. So even if there was pain, there was also a lot of support from them. That was a lot of love. And that's what I mainly remember how they helped me to get through these episodes in a very positive way. And also with a lot of love from my environment.

Andy Follows: 6:40

Excellent. And you said the treatment was originally tested on Russian prisoners, what was the treatment?

Pieter Demaeght: 6:46

Yeah, so as I mentioned, the leg wouldn't grow. And if you would not treat it, that's not very helpful for the rest of your life. If you have one leg that doesn't grow. So the treatment is and I don't want to go too much into details, they would break the leg again. So it's already broken, they break it in a second place. And then they will, they will stretch the leg like a couple of millimetres a day. And that leg, of course tries to grow together again, where it's fractured. And because the stretching, it grows much faster than it would normally grow. It's called an elixir of treatment. And it's also used, for example, to grow small people. That's one of the treatments that are available to grow limbs, for example, up to 10 or 20 centimetres. It looks like a little bit of a terminator. And if you see there's lots of iron pins going in and out of the leg and

Andy Follows: 7:34

okay, we're probably we’re haemorrhaging listeners now. If you're driving, don't listen to this bit. So it

Pieter Demaeght: 7:46

There was a lot of attention for it. It was very visible. People always asked like, what is this with your leg? And I think I've shared the story 10,000 times I've told people what is with my leg and what is funny, and these have a few alternative stories. So the best story that I have that I use when I'm with my children on the beach, because if I wear shorts, you can really see that something's up with the leg. It's a shark attack. And it really looks like a shark attack. And people the first time they will say no, it's not really a shark attack, but then I will say have a closer look. And 100% people who believe that it's a shark attack. So sometimes if we don't want to do the entire story that I just shared with you, we'll just stick with the shark attack.

Andy Follows: 8:30

Now in terms of recovery, in terms of then in living a normal childhood, if you like, where did you get to where you able to function with it?

Pieter Demaeght: 8:39

There was also a lot of normal childhood in between hospital visits and treatment periods. But yes, I think that's what also something my parents tried to do is make me have as much of a normal childhood as possible. So they were very supportive in the treatment periods. And in between if I had a chance because the injury was table. We also did normal things that that normal kids would do.

Andy Follows: 9:02

And what about your experience then of school? Because it's typically not great to stand out at school for any particular reason would be my generalisation. So what are some of your memories of school and being a student and getting involved in activities?

Pieter Demaeght: 9:19

Yeah, so when I was in school early on, again, the first 12 years, I was in school, but I was also out of school a lot, because there were extended periods of treatment. I didn't feel like I stood out. I wasn't bullied or anything. I think I got also a lot of support from the teachers and everybody saw that we had a challenge and that we took it well. I actually missed a lot of school as well, where my parents and grandparents did not did homeschooling, because it was sometimes difficult to go to school with the injury. So I think one lucky thing is that I didn't have more difficulties keeping up during that period in school, did a lot of learning, reading and writing myself. have never really struggled.

Andy Follows: 10:02

I'm always very interested in this period of my guests lives because these formative years, the challenges that we face, clearly show up in terms of, you know, this is where we're forged by some of these events, and they show up, what are the effects of them show up in our later behaviour, the paradigms that we have the behaviours and the results. So I'm always, perhaps I have above average curiosity to dive into what it was like, and you have the physical challenge that you had with your leg.

Pieter Demaeght: 10:35

Maybe on that one, I think it's because it was framed in such a positive way by my direct environment. Also, when kids at school or teachers would approach me about the injury, I naturally presented as something positive as well. Like I said, Look, this is what I have, it is my leg. But hey, look what I can do, and look how much progress we already made. Then next month, we're going to have another treatment, and then we're going to be even better than we are right now. So rather than seeing it as being worse than the baseline, I think it was always presented to me like how much improvement have we already made? And that's also when when people approached me in school, or when even kids tried to pick on me, I think I was always very confident like, look, we're doing something that is actually great. We're conquering this, and we're not weaker, or we're not worse than than other people. I think that's how I managed to deal with a lot of the situation. That's cool as well.

Andy Follows: 11:33

I think that's fascinating,

Pieter Demaeght: 11:35

Because of because of the support from my environment. I was always looking for the positive solution as well to challenges. For example, I can share your story where there was like this village run, where all the kids would have to run a kilometre as a race. And I was on crutches back then. And I did actually the run on crutches, which was very weird. Maybe for some people on the outside, like, why is this kid on crutches doing this run, if you're injured, you don't participate in the run, you can participate again next year. But since it was, for me, it was a long term thing. And I wondered just to see what I could do and participate like the other kids. I did the run on crutches with this with this extensive treatment thing on my leg, and actually got into the local newspaper. And I think it was quite proud of that as well, even though I was probably the last one to finish.

Andy Follows: 12:24

That story says it paints a picture of the kind of character you are and explains so much about you. So thank you for sharing that with us. We touched on the academic side and you finding things, fortunately being able to keep up and not overly challenged by that. So tell me a little bit about what point you were kind of picking up subjects that you liked getting a sense of direction, to what extent did you have a sense of the direction you wanted to go in by the time you left school? What were some of the choices you made and the decisions,

Pieter Demaeght: 12:59

I think something interesting to share. As well as that when I was out of school, in the earlier part of my life, I travelled a lot as well, mostly with my grandparents, they travelled a lot. My grandfather was a travelling businessman. And if I couldn't go to school anyway, and my parents were busy, they would often take me on a trip by car to Italy and Spain to go see his clients. And I think that's where I very early on, got a taste for seeing things outside of my own country. And also maybe something to share. When I was in the hospitals, I really liked to watch nature documentaries was one of the things that I would really enjoy if I couldn't get out of the hospital bed and my grandma and I used to watch National Geographic, the nature documentaries and a lot about the African animals as well. And she, at some point when things weren't looking that good, she made me a promise. And he said, Look, if one day you can really walk and this whole injuries is over, then we'll go to Africa together. And we'll go see the animals in real life. And when she made the promise, I'm not sure if she was serious. But when I was 12 years old, she kept her word. And we went to Africa to go on a three week safari to go see the animals. And yeah, it's always something that that stuck with me as well. And it's also again, gave me a taste for for seeing the world and going outside of of my own environment. I think that's something I got very early on as well.

Andy Follows: 14:30

Yeah, so what could on paper sound like a tragedy. You describe it in a very positive way as you said you always have and that comes across. And then in terms of academics, what direction were you heading in? What were you starting to appreciate and what thoughts how clear were you?

Pieter Demaeght: 14:49

so in high school I don't think again, I I struggled a lot I was quite easy to keep up and I was mainly enjoying my newfound freedom writing motorcycle around the town and really making friends and girlfriends for the first time. So high school was cruising through, I'd say and enjoying the freedom that that I had now being much more mobile. When it comes to academics, on our dinner tables, with my dad, being a notary, and my mom being a lawyer, it was clear what the main subject was. So there was a lot of talk about legal topics and law, obviously. So I always had in the back of my mind, I'm also going to study law, and I'm going to be a lawyer or a notary, it was never really a big question. And things naturally progressed in that direction of me completing high school with with good grades, and then going on to university to study law at the University of Leuven, one of the good universities in Belgium.

Andy Follows: 15:50

So you started off pursuing the law.

Pieter Demaeght: 15:53

I never really questioned it to be honest Andy. It came with the family and it interested me the subject interested me as well. And yeah, I started the career there. It's a five year study in Belgium, we then went to live in the city as university students do. But I wasn't a very diligent or a very good student, I don't think I really got bitten by the passion for law and also, maybe not enough challenge early on in the studies. So it was really about getting the grades completing the courses. When I look back at it now, I think it's a shame that I didn't get more out of that part of my studies. No, I'm not sure. What was the reason for that, that I wasn't more driving into studying and learning rather than just trying to get the grades and move on in my academic career.

Andy Follows: 16:43

I'm finding this fascinating because the phrase I would use is your heart wasn't in it. For some reason, your heart was not in the law. And we know because we've taken the trouble to find out about your early years, we know that you weren't lazy or that you didn't like a challenge. We know that you're determined the story of you running on crutches in the village race paints a picture of someone now this person is not just a lazy, apathetic person. So clearly, it's not enough to be determined and resilient. If your heart's not in the subject that you are there to study.

Pieter Demaeght: 17:23

I think that's exactly what it is. I don't think my heart was really in it. And I don't regret making the choice to study law, but my heart wasn't in it. So I just did the job and grind through it. And it was an interesting episode as well.

Andy Follows: 17:37

And then what happened after that when once you'd graduated?

Pieter Demaeght: 17:41

So after I graduated with a pass grade, so I think the grades kept going down. And I still graduated with a pass grade, but nothing to be proud of, to be honest, I actually got a really good opportunity to do the entrance test of a well respected international business school, they invited me to take the test was very challenging test, and few people would pass and actually passed. And I was really excited by that. So it was an International Management School in Belgium, they offered the one year course. And because I passed on, and then got a grant as well to complete the course. And this completely changed my perspective on studying. I really got bitten there. So I was proud, I think that I passed the entry level course. And then I also wanted to be a high performer in that group, because it was a very talented group with people from different backgrounds. So I really wanted

Andy Follows: 18:35

So this captured your imagination or it captured your passion, the rose to this one, maybe it was harder to get into you had a sense that it was challenging to get in and somehow you were it captured you Why was it different? Do you think? Is there something different about the direction it was going in that subject matter? As well as the people around you when you said they were impressive they were,

Pieter Demaeght: 19:00

I think what may be different is that there was also a part of creativity required. Whereas law is a lot of studying big volumes of legal information that you have to process and study. And I never had any difficulty this with that. But it didn't excite me so much. Whereas in the business school, we got use cases and business cases and group works, where you were really challenged, to think for yourself as well. And to come up with solutions. I think that's something that I missed in the last at least like it was more reproducing things that were really done before. Whereas in the business studies, you were faced with problems and you were challenged to come up with creative solutions. And some of the reasoning from the legal courses, breaking big problems into smaller problems and having a good structure for your reasoning. That was still very helpful. But the implications were much more creative and much more practical and business oriented. And I think that's what made it different. Maybe that little bit of cream activity coming in and problem solving coming in. Also a connection to the real world. So yeah, it was completely different really got bitten there got challenged.

Andy Follows: 20:09

So for whatever reason, your heart or for a range of reasons your heart really was in this.

Pieter Demaeght: 20:14

Yes, it was very exciting year, build a lot of network and connections as well actually graduated there with very good marks, and completely revitalised for a professional career in different direction. So it's amazing what what a year like this can do. If you compare me at the start just finishing my legal degree, which is not bad, but with quite low motivation to do something. And then one year later, after International Business course, with a diverse group, really ready to take on the world.

Andy Follows: 20:47

Brilliant. It just shows doesn't it the impact of the right environment, the right subject matter, the right people around you, you were the same person, but completely different experience completely different levels of motivation and discretionary effort that you'd have been putting in? Because this captured you this environment, this topic? Absolutely. I think there's such a lesson in that if we're looking at people, and they are, they seem to have lost their mojo, they don't seem to be really engaged in what they're doing, and what is it about environment that we can change to unleash some of that passion? Again?

Pieter Demaeght: 21:24

You're absolutely right. I want to give also credit there to my parents for giving me the chance to do the second course because for them, maybe they had me going into a legal career in their mind. But they gave me a chance they supported me again. And just like you said, I think it's also something a lesson that applies in business, where sometimes we see a person in our team that is struggling in the role. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not the right person for the team. But the environment, if we can make some changes to the environment. Maybe we can bring out the energy and the excitement and the talent that's there. So I think you're absolutely right.

Andy Follows: 22:01

Yeah, it helps us to think it's not all about the individual. A good chunk of it is factors in the system in the environment that we have a some control over. Let's address all of them before we we throw the baby out with the bathwater. As we say exactly. Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years and I can

Pieter Demaeght: 22:34

Yes. So then, the next chapter, I got a job think of no more fitting sponsor for Career-view Mirror. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent interview at the job fair. And I met one of the first really for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing inspirational leaders in my career, Belgian consultant named companies. All ASKE Consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and Ronny Cosijns, maybe a bit of background, we're in the time of perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers the financial crisis now the Lehman crisis. So he was working for my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription in capital markets for large international investment banks. business. ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy and to identify and bring onboard And he was looking for a junior person who could help him on suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the projects, digesting a lot of new information new financial people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a regulation around since the financial crisis, and apply that two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your in a business environment, so it was a really good match, I think business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew and with my legal background and experience in the business the team at hello@consulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback school, but I had zero experience in this industry. And at www.askeconsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt ASKE? You'll find what I appreciate about Ronny, he took a chance. He said, I these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. So you did this year like your attitude, I think you have some of the skills that are much more motivated and definitely in the groove and your hearts in it and tell us what happened at the end of that required for this challenge. You're also like a lot of them. then. But if we go together, we may be successful, and we may make it. And he took a chance on me and he really, he got my back, he gave me confidence. And he offered me to join him on a project. And my first day in the office, the first day of my professional career, was on an aeroplane from Brussels to Toronto to start on the project there. So quite unusual. I'd never been to North America before. And we embarked on a project together. So it was him and me a two man team to help a large bank in Canada with a transformation project. I said in the board rolling, please don't be mad at me that I shared a story I said in the board meeting with the bank, with a short introduction that I memorised from heart of what my experience was, we got accepted. And we started the project. And it went really well, actually. So there was a lot to learn.

Andy Follows: 26:20

It sounds like an apprenticeship, you had a really great opportunity there. Someone took a chance on you came obviously with some really good raw materials and the studies that you've done, and then you've got the opportunity to work alongside somebody who wanted you to succeed and, and you help them and they help you.

Pieter Demaeght: 26:41

Yeah, absolutely. And he had very high standards for himself and for the people around him. That's something that I still take with me until today. So you have to put the bar very high in the quality of the work that you do as a professional. That's something I learned. But it wasn't it wasn't always easy either. And so he also worked very, very hard. We were consultants, you know that industry. We were 11 days in Toronto, and then three days back in Brussels. We did that for almost a year. So it's also quite an exhausting rhythm. They're always flying back and forth with the jet lakes was very long days. Also working evenings and nights to deadlines. It was a great opportunity. But it was also a massive challenge and a lot to learn. But really happy that I took it that I got to learn from somebody like like him very early on in my career.

Andy Follows: 27:37

And how long did he do that for?

Pieter Demaeght: 27:39

So the Canada project was a little bit less than a year was with the Belgian company named Capco, the consultancy company. They have offices around the world. But the project was less than a year. I stayed with Capco after on on different other projects working with international banks. We were in Brussels with BNP Paribas, we were in Amsterdam with ABN AMRO. And then the next big project was also an interesting one was actually the merger between Deutsche Börse the exchange in Germany and New York Stock Exchange was a massive move in the financial markets industry. Actually, the moment that the merger was decided and planned. Deutsche Börse put a team of 50 consultants, a lot of them from my company back then. And Ronny again, was the project late in the basement of the Old Exchange building in Frankfurt as kind of a dark ops project, because the merger wasn't approved yet by the European Commission. So they were starting to prepare the merger operationally, process wise, with a team of 50 consultants in the basement of the old Stock Exchange building, not in their normal offices. We worked on that for six months with the team. And then actually the European Commission did not approve the merger. So they had to bin everything that we did.

Andy Follows: 29:08

Oh, wow. How did you feel about that?

Pieter Demaeght: 29:10

I was still quite junior at that point. So I didn't feel the I think the political significance and or the business impact there. And actually, they kept a very small number of people from the team. They kept about five consultants from the team of 50 people with Deutsche Börse to have some transfer of the knowledge. And I was one of the people that they that they kept. So then I moved from the basement of the old stock actually

Andy Follows: 29:36

They let you out of the basement.

Pieter Demaeght: 29:40

Exactly. They left me out of the basement into this very nice office building that they had in Frankfurt, of course, a big financial district in Europe, and I got a desk in the normal office building. And I stayed with Deutsche Börse for another 18 months so I it didn't feel like too much of a disruption for me, but I can imagine that but for the people working leading the project, it was very unexpected, and very disappointing. And there was also a lot of capital being burned in that basement.

Andy Follows: 30:09

Absolutely. I was trying to do some mental maths when you were describing it. Yeah, big investment. And what happened from there.

Pieter Demaeght: 30:18

So we're now about three years into my consulting career, I'm actually becoming a bit of an expert in this new financial services regulation postcrisis, working for large banks. But I'm not 100% convinced that this is what I want to do. For my entire career, maybe we come back to is my heart really there. And the I think, I got an amazing learning experience I learned from from smart people, I learned how to manage large scale projects at a very high level of quality. But the industry, I'm not 100% convinced. So I'm on the fence. And at that point, when I'm working in Frankfurt, I get a phone call from BMW Group in Belgium, they approached me for a international management trainee programme, they were looking for a candidate to represent the Belgian market. And the fact that I spoke German was a plus. And it was a financial services position. So my experience in the financial services industry was also a plus. I've always been a fan of the BMW brand. So that was a plus for sure. And I thought about the business. And this is at the time that BMW was launching the i3. So the first full electric cars were coming out. And I was following the industry. And I had two horses that I was watching in this race. One of them was BMW with the i3. And the other one was a very small American company was doing something in electric cars as well, which was Tesla. And I was betting on BMW winning this race with the strong brand and with the good vision and a big push for a certification. And I think at that point, they were actually maybe even ahead of Tesla with the products in the market. And we had a very strong brand supporting it. So I gave it some thought. The position also still had financial services. And I was it was my vision. And it still is my vision today, that large corporates, offering financial services for their customers, is an area where there is still growth to be expected. I think we've seen that with companies like Apple offering more and more financial services. I think it also companies like Tesla are doing that now. So this was, for me the best of both worlds, it gives me an opportunity to work with a strong brand and a strong product like BMW, but still stay close to where my experience was. And where I saw big opportunity, which is financial services.

Andy Follows: 32:56

I love that. First of all, you didn't know when you got into those consulting roles, how much you were going to like it, you didn't know whether your heart was going to be in it, you only find out by trying, and you threw yourself into it and then noticed okay, there's still there could be more we I'm not convinced this is it for the rest of my career. But then to be recognising Well, I don't want to throw everything I want to retain the bits of what I'm doing that I enjoy. And I do have an interest in and add some other components that might you know, ignite a spark might make it more interesting might appeal to a little bit more of me might capture my imagination. And that's what you could see with the cars. And I think you're absolutely right, the i3 and the i8 were fantastic examples of you know, just ingenious what was going on there with the carbon fibre bodies, and then the hybrid elements of the i8 was really, really cool. So and it's intriguing then that BMW in Belgium didn't have somebody in the business to put forward for the management programme. They decided they needed to find somebody and so they did a search and came across you.

Pieter Demaeght: 34:06

I've asked myself the question as well Andy so I think there was a bit of luck. Sometimes you need some luck in your career as well, because I wasn't actively approaching BMW. But I did see as you said, I did see those two trends and try to analyse what are my current strengths. I saw electrification as a big trend in the automotive industry. And I saw the Financial Services trend of corporates offering financial services to their customers. And I decided to go for those two. And then BMW reached out and it was a very good match with those two trends that I identified, which I think I've proven through until today, and I think the industry is still extremely relevant. But yes, it was interesting to know that BMW reached out, they actually initiated the discussion.

Andy Follows: 34:51

So tell us a bit about your experience. Then when you went on that programme.

Pieter Demaeght: 34:55

It was an incredible programme. It was an incredible opportunity. I'm really grateful that I got it. To give you an idea, we were a class of 60 trainees from 18 different countries around the world. Again, a very diverse group from all parts of the BMW Group business, from manufacturing, from sales from financial services from HR. So you had this group of 60, young, ambitious, talented individuals, all coming together to Munich at the same time to spend a six month assignment in various departments. But we would also meet each other for training, intercultural training, management, training, network activities. And we lived together also, we lived in something that you could see as a university dorm, small apartments that BMW provided to expats, and we all lived in the same building. So it was a very unique period, where I created a lot of connections that I carried through my career at BMW, both geographically connections, where you know, somebody in every country so that if there's a challenge, you can always reach out to somebody as a first starting point. And also, functionally, you know, somebody in every single segment of the group, so it wasn't a great way to start working with BMW, What year was this? That must be 2013, I think.

Andy Follows: 36:16

And was this across all of BMW or financial services?

Pieter Demaeght: 36:21

No, across all of BMW, so it was manufacturing, sales, engineering, HR, financial services, that were actually only three or four people from financial services in the group of 60. So was a very diverse group.

Andy Follows: 36:34

So some of your cohort would have been, as you say, all over the organisation, different departments coming from different countries, a brilliant starting point to have a network across the business.

Pieter Demaeght: 36:46

Absolutely. And I learned that BMW actually scaled it down, that was the high watermark for the programme 60 People from 18 different countries, there was also some turbulence, I'm not gonna go into the detail, but there was some turbulence during the programme. And I think afterwards, BMW scaled it down with fewer participants for each class. But we had this opportunity. And it's been a great asset throughout my career with BMW.

Andy Follows: 37:09

Excellent. And that was a six month programme.

Pieter Demaeght: 37:13

The programme in Munich was six months, it had also assignments in Belgium different assignments. So I started off in processing quality, learning about the operation side of the business. Then we had the Munich assignment. And then we had another assignment in Belgium in risk management. And then there was a final assignment in South Africa and South African market. So I went back to the African savanna to see the animals again, but this time, in a beautiful BMW 335, active hybrid. So we could do the safari trips, perfectly silent, and not to disturb the animals. So yes, a little bit full circle there. But learned a lot there as well, it was an assignment in the controlling department in BMW, South Africa, learned a lot working interculturally, but also about the challenges that they faced in their business there. That was the programme, but for different assignments in three different markets in different areas of the business. So you really get a fast start. And you understand financial services from the different angles.

Andy Follows: 38:11

And when you were in when you were in Belgium, and in South Africa, were you just the only person from the programme there?

Pieter Demaeght: 38:18

Yes. But that is a bit challenging, that can be challenging, because you have to find your place. But then you still have to be humble, you're just one of the team, and not feel like you're this special person who selected for this talent programme. That is, I think, not easy. And also if I run these kinds of programmes now or if I look at participants in these kinds of programmes, that's a very challenging balance to find, to balance the unique opportunity with staying grounded and staying connected to the team as well.

Andy Follows: 38:49

And how long did you spend in South Africa?

Pieter Demaeght: 38:51

Was also I think about six months. Excellent. Now, it sounds absolutely fabulous, a great way to learn so much. And to build your network, there comes a point then when you have to get a proper job, you have to knuckle down and get yourself a more long term position with the company. So what happened there? That's exactly what we do Andy knuckle down. So what the leadership team in Belgium I think did very well was to as my first assignment, throw me into the Credit Acceptance and credit underwriting team, which was extremely understaffed, had an incredibly bad reputation with the dealers. It was not an easy environment to work in. It was really going from the Leadership Programme into the front lines, having angry sales consultants on the phone, every single call every single day, having to feel that heat first work with our customers, and having to think of ways to turn that around because that was also one of the mandates that I got. Now you go in you feel the heat and let us know how you think this can be done in a different way. So that was a big change. But I think it was a very smart move from the leadership team in Belgium.

Andy Follows: 40:05

I agree. And with the benefit of hindsight, having spoken to so many of my guests now and those who a lot of them in senior positions in financial services in automotive financial services, a good proportion of them started in credit underwriting. And, and a good number of them also had to do collections as well. So they really got to learn about lending. If you've got to then go and get the money. If it's not coming in, then nothing seems to focus the mind quite like having to do that. And then here you are, right. Okay, Peter, now it's time to see what you're made of, in the credit application area, you've obviously already done some really tough gigs, I'm sure being in the basement, in the consulting firm, do you weren't feeling too special at that point. So

Pieter Demaeght: 40:54

I really liked what you identify there. And it is it is very true. So there has been this balance between opportunities being given, but then also, immediately after having to really roll up the sleeves and fight and work very hard to prove yourself from a privileged position to the basement of Deutsche Bursa, very long days, very long hours across the Atlantic Ocean. And the same with BMW from this programme, where you get to see the world and meet talented people around the world. Straight in for six months, again, very, very long hours with very unhappy customers and grinding it through there was not an easy period there. But we sailed the murky waters, and we came out on the other end. And we actually managed to turn a lot of the satisfaction with the deals around. So we managed to turn a lot of the customer satisfaction around, making small changes changing the way we worked, we recruited some some new people to the team as well. And we created the really good camaraderie in the acceptance team, putting customers first very basic principle, but that's actually what we did. With hard work, we managed to turn things around.

Andy Follows: 42:01

So how did you escape from this very challenging Credit Acceptance role.

Pieter Demaeght: 42:06

So again, an interesting turn of events. So the Credit Acceptance role was meant to be temporary. But I was expecting to have a career path in finance, because I was still the guy with the law degree, I still had most of my assignments in finance, I did financial markets as a consultant, but actually was the CEO in Belgium financial services at that point, Mike Dennett, who came up with an interesting idea. So they had a challenging region in Belgium, and they were looking for a new sales area manager. And for me, very unexpected, Mike wanted me to take that role to go into the field as a sales area manager to go visit dealers on a daily basis, learn more about the sales company business as well. So the sales side of BMW Group, and yeah, that's what I did, I took on that role for the largest region in Belgium, with, again, quite low, do satisfaction at that point, number of challenges ahead of it. But I took on the role and did that for the next three years.

Andy Follows: 43:10

Okay, so not on your radar at all that, how did it happen? What's the story when that was put to you? And you'd been imagining a carrying on in direction of finance, and all of a sudden, there's this sales role coming at you? Can you remember the conversation?

Pieter Demaeght: 43:27

Yes. So when the possibility was discussed, take on the role. I always thought I had sales somewhere in my genes. I've mentioned my grandfather, who was an international cattle trader.

Andy Follows: 43:39

Oh, we didn't know we didn't know what he did. you said he was international. And he was commercial. So

Pieter Demaeght: 43:46

So he was he was really a very professional businessman, and he traded in farm animals. But what I wanted to say is I felt like I had sales in my genes. And I also enjoyed whenever I had the chance to present the project as part of a consultancy assignment or as part of an assignment with BMW Group. I enjoy talking to people and convincing them of ideas, which I think part of that is what we do in sales, and especially in a sales area manager role. You want to get people inspired, and you want to convince people to sell your products.

Andy Follows: 44:22

Did you just accept it? How did it happen? Did Mike approach you and say, oh Pieter, this is what I want you to do? Or did, how was it put to you? And was it explained? What Why do they want you to do this?

Pieter Demaeght: 44:31

Yeah. So they did present it to me not much as a choice. But as a fact, like, this is what we want you to do next. Why you because we think you have skills that you haven't discovered yourself yet, and we want to give you a chance to discover them. And second, which I think was very right to expose me to the dealer network, and to bring me closer also to the sales company. Because in financial services, as you very well know, Andy the risk is that you're getting in through a tunnel vision, and you think about contracts more than cars. And as an area manager, I think you're much closer to the cars, then lots of other roles in financial services. That's how it was presented to me, I think it was a really good move, looking back at it as well, great. I also had to organise myself, so there wasn't too much background, they basically said, Look, these are your targets, we want you to increase penetration, we want you to increase customer satisfaction, increase overall volume, but how to do that there wasn't too much structure. So this is your region, these are your dealers, these are your targets, please organise yourself. And I was also, I think, the youngest sales area manager in Belgium at that point for a very large region. So there was a lot of eyes on what I was going to do as well. And I think then again, my strategy is always roll up your sleeves and do the hard work. So it was a lot of visits long days, I wanted to be present at the dealerships to show the sales consultants that we were a partner, and that if they had questions, I was reachable. My philosophy back then was as an area manager, you can call me anytime you want, I don't promise I pick up the phone, but I get back to you in 24 hours. And that was a complete shift for them where financial service had been a partner that was not reachable, not always open for conversation, because of various reasons. But for me, that was my first commitment to my partner's like I am reachable. And if you have a problem, because you're trying to sell a BMW, I will help you with the problem. So I will take it on personally. And I will try to find a solution personally. And that changed a lot that accountability of somebody in a position to make a difference for the sales consultants, actually taking up the case and sticking to the commitment as well. rolling up the sleeves, that changed a lot. And that's that's how I think we started to turn things around

Andy Follows: 46:58

The idea that you could make a difference that you were in a position where for these dealers, you could and for the individual salespeople who you're helping you could actually make their lives easier you could you could make this work for them, that must have been quite fulfilling, I imagine.

Pieter Demaeght: 47:18

Yes. And there was also a lot of friction to do that. But I think if you have good intentions, and they say, Look, I just want to help, we're all here for the same reason, we have the same goals. And let me do what I can. Sometimes you have to push back against other interests, or you have to push back against restrictions, resource limitations, but just showing that you have the same goal in mind, and that you're willing to help, it was rewarding, and also gave me a lot of trust from my partners. And I think that was something I learned in that role. That if you can really show that you're committed to helping somebody, you will get a lot of trust back as well. And that's that's a strong base to build on. There. It didn't mean we could always win. But that was better accepted. If your partners knew that you gave it your best you try it, you win some together and you lose some together, but you're always accountable. So you always share feedback. Also, if it doesn't work, you explain why then did this one not work? You explain as good as you can. And then you look at the next one together and roll up the sleeves again. So I think yeah,

Andy Follows: 48:20

yeah, you've built a reputation for yourself as someone who supports them, and can be trusted, and does want them to do well. And so when you come back and say sorry, we didn't make it this time. And these are the reasons why it's a lot easier to accept that. I think that was the key. Exactly. So yeah, I love the way the picture you're painting. And it's building up, we're seeing how you're getting all these different aspects, these different exposures, these different areas of the industry that you're getting exposed to and learning about, and you're honing your own skills, your own leadership skills, your own interpersonal skills, and you're building a reputation for yourself,

Pieter Demaeght: 48:59

I can very much what you say building your skills I can really recommend and it's not something that nobody said before. But taking a role as an area manager in the business like like ours, you have no direct leadership, nobody's reporting to you. But you have 200 salespeople that you work with. And if you don't lead them, you're not going to be successful. So you need to find ways to build trust and to work together and to align interests in different ways. And I think it's very valuable experience to get

Andy Follows: 49:29

Yeah, they have to follow your leadership because they want to, because it makes sense for them to do that. Not just because of some job title or rank.

Pieter Demaeght: 49:39

And I guess that's how it should always be as nice because it makes sense rather than because you're the one scoring them at the end of the year.

Andy Follows: 49:45

Yeah. Which is why it's a great grounding. So how long did you do that for and what came next?

Pieter Demaeght: 49:51

I was in the role, three or four years I don't know exactly, but a good time, good chunk of time to really get to know the response. abilities and also to get into a certain comfort zone in that role again, which I think is good that you take the time to go through the learning curve. And to find that place again, where you're getting more comfortable. So you can also invest in long term, you're not just firefighting anymore and overwhelmed by the day to day business. But you can also because he gets more comfortable, step back and do certain things for the long term. But yeah, I did that about three or four years, and was looking at the next step, because I'm still an ambitious young kid, and thinking what to do next. And Munich was firmly on my radar wanting to get out of Belgium again, and see if I could have a meaningful role in the BMW headquarters.

Andy Follows: 50:41

Right, lots of value to be had from a spell at the headquarters in any organisation to build a network and to get an understanding of the broader business. But something else came along, I think,

Pieter Demaeght: 50:53

yes, things took a different turn. I was interviewing for a few positions in Munich, and there were opportunities. But in the round of Christmas wishes, actually, I think networking is a key skill for any career. And as you know, and many of your guests have shares, or sending out Christmas wishes, and mentioning that I was in a transition from Belgium to Munich to one of my contacts, and Björn Antonsson came back, who was then working for BMW in Thailand, for financial services. And he started sending me emails with the challenges that he was facing in his new role. He was trying to launch an RV product, he had challenging relations with the NSC team. Customer loyalty was low, he needed to launch use car business and fleet business. So very typical topics for an emerging market, but also topics that I had been working on in Belgium as a sales area manager. And we started to have quite a lively email exchange. And he really triggered I think, again, is a sense of challenge in me like, this is not the usual pop. But it sounded like a big challenge, like, go do something different and really helped build the market. On the other side of the world.

Andy Follows: 52:08

Yeah, get you out into Asia, stay hands on, but with lots of additional dimensions, and yet still be able to use a lot of the experience that you've built up. So you're not making a complete change. You're developing, you're building on what you've already got.

Pieter Demaeght: 52:23

Yes. So it was an opportunity also to have a get an international experience. It was something I've been talking with my wife,

Andy Follows: 52:30

I was gonna say, What was your personal situation at this time?

Pieter Demaeght: 52:35

By this time, I'm married, we have no children. My wife has a really good career, also in Brussels working for the European institutions. So she's doing well, we're both doing well. But we had a shared understanding that we're not going to be in Belgium for our entire life. And we made the agreement, if one of us gets a really good opportunity, and we can both go abroad, then we will follow the other one.

Andy Follows: 53:02

Right. So you had made that you had already made that agreement prior to this.

Pieter Demaeght: 53:07

It wasn't written and signed off. But there was an understanding that this is something we both want. And let's see where we can take where we can go together.

Andy Follows: 53:16

I mean, that's great that you're having those conversations. What I've experienced is that hypothetical conversations are one thing. But when something's on the table, all of a sudden, it's a whole different ballgame. So but what stage in your emailing with Bjorn? Did you tell your wife about this and have the discussion

Pieter Demaeght: 53:40

quite early on And like you say, I do think hypothetical discussions about Germany are quite easy. It's easy to picture, or live there, not too far from what we're used to maybe a 10 hour car drive from our families. But then we were both eager. So I was sharing this, this opportunity. And I saw some fire in her eyes for going beyond Europe, and going beyond Germany. So she also got engaged very early on. And this really supported me and I'm grateful to her for supporting me early on to explore the opportunity. So I got extra energy to talk and to see what the opportunity would really was.

Andy Follows: 54:20

Right. And I know what happens next because I met you in time. I met you when I was working with Björn and his team probably around 2018 I think working with the leadership team. So you dotted the I's and cross the T's and decided to go

Pieter Demaeght: 54:45

I went for a week first. I was invited for a week to participate in a workshop. They made me work really hard actually for the first week was a workshop around sales and marketing. They already got a lot of my ideas. So that was a really good plan from their side But I went for a week I came back and we said, Okay, let's do it. Let's dive again, let's jump again into something that is professionally closer to what I know. I've been in financial services and automotive now. I knew Björn from Munich, so I had a connection there. But then culturally and from daily life, this was, I think, the biggest jump we have taken so far. And it proved also to be one of the biggest learning curves, in my personal life, like learning a completely different culture, moving from Europe to Southeast Asia, taking nothing for granted. I think it's something that as a person, it changes us significantly, and enriches us as well, both me and my wife. So yeah, not a big leap into the deep water. Yeah. And another example of someone believing in you, yes, 100%, you know, Björn, I would love to, you know, let's say a couple of words about what an innovator and inspiring leader Björn is, and he would talk about you very positively, before I met you, he was very pleased to have you on board. So someone else again, deciding that you would be a good fit, and he was right. But that doesn't mean that it's not a challenge, you still have to go through that personal transformation, don't you to become the guy, you were to now understanding how does this all work in Southeast Asia? Yes, and I think what I learned from Björn as well, because I think we'd learn from our if we can work with visionary leaders and with mentors, we, we learn different things. What I learned from Björn that I used throughout my career is giving confidence and having somebody's back, where Björn said, Look, you're gonna come here, it's gonna be a big challenge, you may fail, you may make mistakes, but make them no matter what happens. And I will have your back. If somebody comes to blame and say, why did this Belgian guy come to Thailand and decide to do things completely different, he will be there and I trusted him. And that gave me also the confidence to change things in the market, like Thailand, respectful for what was there, but also not being too careful not to change the status quo. And you need a leader who has your back. And it's something that I use with my team in Thailand as well. And that I use with my team now. I tell them, Look, whatever happens. I have your back. And if people come after you, we're going to step in, and I'm going to make sure that I will take the blow. I think that's that's something I really learned and take throughout my career from that experience.

Andy Follows: 57:38

Was there a time anything that happened that you can talk about where that was necessary for Björn to step in and have your back?

Pieter Demaeght: 57:47

Luckily, not too much. I think most of the things we did went well, there was some friction when you disturb organisation, and maybe you come in doing things the Western way, you do rattle some cages, but I don't think we made any big mistakes, or there weren't any big fuck ups where Björn had to step in. But just to paint you a picture how different things are. And I want to share maybe just a story about perspective. First, the short story, I'm not sure if you like it, BMW Group, Thailand, financial services, has a monthly birthday party, that there were business up there, but they also celebrate everybody's birthday, who had a birthday in that month. And the energy in that event was completely different from ours used in in Europe, where it was more of a formal event. And everybody just stayed as long as they had to. And then they went home or back to their desk to finish some work. Where this was really like a family get together. They invited me on the first one liberty, they invited me to present myself and if possible, and I'm not inventing this do a little performance. They actually got me to go on stage with large karaoke sheets that I have written down on big pieces of paper, to sing, and to teach everybody to sing happy birthday in Dutch. But looking back at it now, I must have looked like a complete alien in the because I had so much energy and nervousness and excitement coming into that meeting. They must have looked at me like an alien coming into their team. But luckily, an alien with the right attitude and think somebody who wanted to be supportive and they wanted to be part of the team and not just show them how things needed to be done. But the perspective there, if you look back, after being then in that organisation for three, four or five years, you become part of the team, but those first months, you really are a different person. And that's something that I look back at with all the warmth, but also with amazement, like how you change as a person coming into a new culture.

Andy Follows: 59:50

Yeah, so it was a growth journey for you. And you mentioned you made references to sort of bringing some of the methodologies from the west to Thailand because Business was a Western business and develop these things in other markets first and was now cascading them around to its other subsidiaries. What are some of the things you will keep from your time in Thailand, some behaviours, practices, mindsets that you hope you'll be able to, you know, you would send the other way you like.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:00:20

So although if I can pick up one, the main lesson I learned from working in Thailand, and hopefully something that your listeners can can use as well, and it is how to actively listen, but in a way that we don't, if there's a scale of active listening, I think in the West, we use 50% of the scale. So when we think we're really listening in a team meeting, we are still driving a lot of the conversation. And if you only use that part of the scale in the eastern setup, especially in a Thai culture, very respectful culture, you will capture very little of the input from the team. So active listening for me in the beginning really meant sitting in a room for sometimes five or 10 minutes, not really saying anything, and giving people the time to be silent as well. It's very hard to imagine that in a meeting room in Germany, where people actually take minutes to sit in silence to think about the challenge, or not just waiting for the boss to speak up and give their idea. I think if if the same situation is in the European context, after one minute, the boss will raise his hand and say he or she will say, okay, maybe we do it like this. And everybody says, Yes, let's go. And that would definitely be the case. In Thailand, if you step in after a moment of silence, and you said, I have possibly an idea, everybody will go that way. But if you can be quiet and really keep your ideas for yourself, then the really good ideas with local knowledge with local sensitivities, then the magic happens. That's something I learned.

Andy Follows: 1:01:57

How did you learn that? How did you learn because the temptation to fill the silence must have been strong? So how did you learn that?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:02:06

It's also in my, in my style to fill the silence, I know for myself, you have to know your strengths and weaknesses. So I want to do things and I want to come up with ideas. But I was gifted this feedback by my team. And I think when you build up relation, and there is trust again, so we're coming back to the trust topic. At a certain point, I said, Look, Pieter, what you actually have to do is give us more time and be quiet a little bit longer. And they really gave it to me like that as a present on a plate. But I don't think you would get it if you if you don't build the trust, you don't get that type of direct advice from your colleagues in that environment. If you have not established a trust.

Andy Follows: 1:02:47

I love that. And it also reminds me of an exercise I love to do with teams where it's phrased from the manager. So if I want to get the best out of you, what do I need to stop, start and keep doing? So you might have said to your team, you know, if I want to get the best out of you, what do I need to stop, start and keep doing? And without doing that? They told you look, Pieter, you need to give us more time. If you want to get the best out of us as your team, you need to give us more time in these situations to actually think and then come up with ideas and solutions. So great example, lovely story.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:03:25

That's exactly what it was Andy. I think you framed that really well, that's exactly what it was, I needed to stop thinking that I needed to help them with my ideas. And I needed to start being quiet,

Andy Follows: 1:03:35

so valuable. And I totally agree they had to care enough about you and succeeding with you. To let you in on this. You had to create an environment where they were comfortable to say, Pieter, please could you just give us a bit more time. And that way, we'll get better results. And so you created that, and then you benefited from it. And that's wonderful for anyone going into a new culture or a new team to try and build up trust so that people will tell you how to get the best out of them.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:04:07

I can only recommend that people who have not had this experience, tried to explore that side of the scale of listening and see how how far you can go into your own discomfort by staying quiet a little bit longer and see what comes up even with team members with clients. But even in the personal relationship as Westerners we don't dare to go to a large part of the scale

Andy Follows: 1:04:31

No. Excellent. So did you say you spent 3,4,5 years in Thailand? How long were you there?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:04:39

nearly five years working on all these challenges that we had set out? Realising a lot of as well. In the first year we did launch the RV product. We completely changed the dealer bonuses so we did fundamentally changed the way that the business worked with good results. I think that was a journey together with the sales comp In Thailand, from a one man show, when I was initially doing business development and working on all of these topics, I also managed to start building a team with local talent, something that I really appreciated people who were in the company that we work with in different ways, we recruit a lot of local talent as well. And over the almost five year period, really build out a big team in sales and marketing, launch a lot of new innovations as well using messaging apps like lioness very popular in Thailand, launching that as I think one of the first markets in BMW Group, to launch a dedicated channel for BMW on the messaging app. So we really managed to change a lot, and Thailand is far enough away from Munich, so that you can actually change things and you're not being followed up or steer too closely. So it was a really good experience on building teams and growing the business and developing the business.

Andy Follows: 1:06:00

And what was happening on the personal side, that's always fascinating how people are living their whole lives, not just their professional career. But what's happening in your personal life. During these years.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:06:11

The climate must have done us very well, because we very quickly got two children, we got a first girl three years into the assignment. And then almost two years later, the second girl came. So we settled really well, we also wanted to integrate, we didn't necessarily have a timeline to leave again, we didn't feel like we're expats. On a limited duration contract, I had an open ended contract in Thailand. So we really settled we both learned the language as well, my wife and I went to classes to learn Thai, which is not an easy one, but it enriches the experience so much. And we really enjoyed our time in Thailand. And we were blessed getting to help the children there.

Andy Follows: 1:06:54

Love to hear that. So it was through the work that you were doing in Thailand that you became connected with DDX, who you're with now I understand.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:07:05

Yes, actually met Gary Davis was the founder of DDX. He presented at the BMW conference, he presented digital transformation. And he really showed our team, the bigger BMW Thailand team, where there were opportunities to do things smarter, better, faster, more efficiently. By leveraging new technology. This is something that my team especially really hooked on to seeing how they could do things different than they had for the last 10 years. And being a smaller market, we could sometimes move a little bit faster, as I mentioned already. So we try to find opportunities to use technology to do things better. And that was initiated, I think, with this session that we had with DDX at a conference,

Andy Follows: 1:07:57

and what sort of things give me an example of a project that you might work on now, though,

Pieter Demaeght: 1:08:03

it's also a really basic thing. So in Thailand, there wasn't really any quotation tool. So a lot of the quotes were still being made in Excel sheets, or F and ice, were using their own templates. And instead of waiting for a central tool to be rolled out, we actually built with the help of ddx, we built a very lean quotation tool that the sales consultants could use the f&i managers could use. And all of a sudden, they liked it more because it was more efficient. They always had accurate data, they had the right campaigns, they didn't make any mistakes. So our users liked it a lot. And we as a headquarter, we went from zero transparency on what calls were being made to full transparency. We had a dashboard and we could see exactly if we launched a new campaign, who was using it? How are the conversions? How many contracts are we signing in the new campaign, and these kind of projects we managed to do in very short timeframe. So from initial idea to implementation in six months, and then continue to iterate to make to make the tool better.

Andy Follows: 1:09:08

So you could move quickly, and you could see very positive results from the innovations that you put in? Yes, they were well received, as you can see the impact on the business positive impact on the business? What was it that attracted you to actually move to join DDX? What was it about the business that attracted you?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:09:30

So again, I've always had an a gene, I think for entrepreneurship. The thing that I enjoyed most throughout my career is actually solving problems, looking at the problem and bringing a solution, creating value as well. I'm a doer, I'm not impatient, but I like doing things and seeing the results of things we do. That's something that that I got from working with ddx at BMW and that I wanted to give back to other to other clients as well from My experience, like how do you identify a problem. And instead of waiting 24 months, as we were sometimes used to, with big projects, to doing all the requirements and different scenarios, let's just put the prototype in the market, get the first feedback, three months after our initial idea, if it works is great, we build on it. And if if it doesn't work, then we maybe need to pivot. And if it really doesn't work, then maybe we need to have a different idea. And that kind of consulting services helping to create value of much faster and also much more efficiently than some of the organisations in our industry are used to, is what really attracted me.

Andy Follows: 1:10:43

It was that ability to get some things done. Being a doer, you're a doer and you you have the background at a deep background, with very professional consulting services. So you can do the thinking and the high level strategic thinking quickly before you start doing so you're not randomly doing, you're doing the right things. And you also have all this experience that you've developed on the ground in the field, whether it's in Credit Acceptance in the early days, or whether it's out in the field, working with dealers, and so on. So there's a real coming together of your skills and your appetite. And then seeing this business and thinking actually, this could be a method for me too, or a way for me to go and give back to some clients and to do some of the work I love doing. change things. Scratch that entrepreneurial itch, exactly. Innovate,

Pieter Demaeght: 1:11:39

exactly change things, really create, value, and innovate. Something else that I really like that I was attracted to. And these I've seen throughout my career, how big of an influence culture is. So if you get the team in the right mindset, where they really want to help each other and go through the fire for each other, how much that is a differentiator between being successful or not. And this project now working with ddx, actually, I can be a real part of shaping the culture, we are building this company from scratch. And we have very strong focus on shared values. We want people to be respectful to each other, to learn to make mistakes, some of the things that I mentioned, to network as well, we want to invest also in the society where where we work. So ddx also as an academy, in Bangkok, where we train people in coding and programming and project management. So being able to shape a culture now and to have an organisation that I work in, where if I'm not 100% Happy, I can actually have an impact on that as well. I think that's also something that really attracted me and proof my recipe now that I've learned over the years in real life. That's that's an amazing challenge.

Andy Follows: 1:13:00

So did it feel like the right time and the right move when the opportunity arose? And who approached who

Pieter Demaeght: 1:13:05

It was coming out of joint conversation? I think like good ideas do on long bicycle rights in Bangkok, actually, it's unbelievable. I don't think anybody ever showed you that they were doing bicycle rights in Bangkok. But it happened during the COVID. So there were no cars on the road in Bangkok, everything was closed. And in order to do to get some workouts we actually went on bicycles throughout the entire city, there were no car so it was safe for once. And during these long, long bicycle rides, this idea materialised. DDX was an existing business with talented people, but they wanted to grow in mobility and automotive. And they also wanted to come to Europe. And by that time, me and my wife, being away from the family with COVID, in a very strict lockdown in Thailand, we were also open to be a bit closer to the family in Europe. So that was also a good coincidence and an opportunity to help DDX build a presence in this part of the world. And we took on the assignment again,

Andy Follows: 1:14:05

So it meant another big move not not only a career move, but a big move geographically. And tell me why you chose Portugal?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:14:15

That's a good question. I think if this isn't an application of business principles in personal life, I think we try to think from first principle where is a good place for us to raise the family. And we looked at all kinds of elements, quality of healthcare, schooling environment, proximity to the family, close, but not too close. And we made a matrix This really sounds very business nerdy, we made a matrix we scored both me and my wife, we scored different options on the matrix. Portugal came out on top. And then it's funny how I sound here like a consultant. We just tried the proof of concept. We moved here into an Airbnb, and we've stayed since and that's how simple that decision was,

Andy Follows: 1:15:01

I love it and so, When did you come back to Portugal? Or when did you come to Portugal,

Pieter Demaeght: 1:15:05

we moved end of 2021, we spent a little bit of time with the family in Belgium to really catch up. We went straight from tropical Thailand into Christmas, dark Europe. But it was great to be so close to everybody. Because the lockdown was very hard. We didn't see a lot of the family for two years. So we we filled up the tanks with love in Belgium. And then our journey continued to Portugal, like four or five months after.

Andy Follows: 1:15:33

And so you've been there now, a couple of years almost. And from a personal point of view settling in well,

Pieter Demaeght: 1:15:41

absolutely, I have a really good balance. I think it's key as you progress in your career that you find always balances between stress and periods of relative relaxation, that you also find the balance of work and family life. And I think that's something we managed to do here. There's a lot of work, obviously, building a new business, building the trust, again, from partners that you've worked with in the past, but also from new clients. As all of your listeners will know, it's a long game. But we're here as well to play play the long game, we have a good basis in Portugal. And within the UK, sometimes there is fierce storms and murky oceans. But sometimes we sail smooth. And I think the key is to have a solid moral compass as well and to stay true to the course. And that's what we're doing.

Andy Follows: 1:16:30

And if people want to get in touch with you, Pieter, how should they do that?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:16:35

LinkedIn is definitely a good place to reach out. As I'm doing all of my work remotely. I live also that philosophy. I enjoy meeting people and talking over over lunch or coffee or dinner. But I think also, an important part of our business is now remote. And I actually enjoy a platform like LinkedIn for meeting people, professionals across the world and interacting with them. So definitely check out my page there, I share my observations and news and updates on the automotive industry at large on technology as well. That's definitely a good place to connect.

Andy Follows: 1:17:10

I'll put a link to your LinkedIn in there, we'll also put the details of DDX and your email in there in case people want to reach out directly to talk or just learn more about the business, you operate internationally, lots of different areas, your particular focus on mobility and automotive auto finance. So we'll share that happily.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:17:31

So our niche really is where we want to be strong is automotive sales and marketing, helping clients with innovative digital solutions to improve their customer experience. It sounds very marketing, and the but in reality, it is small improvements to existing businesses, working with experts who have been in the markets and have done the work like myself, but we have we have a network and we partner up where specific skills are required. I'm happy we can really make a difference for clients. And people can reach out if they want to have a conversation and see how we can possibly help them as well.

Andy Follows: 1:18:07

Very good. And is there anything I haven't asked you? That means I've missed an opportunity for a golden nugget or a story?

Pieter Demaeght: 1:18:13

I'm doing a bit of mentoring and leadership and coaching as well. We haven't talked about that much.

Andy Follows: 1:18:19

Okay, tell me a little bit about that.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:18:22

So as it's clear, I think through my story is that working with the right leaders can be a key game changer in your career, learning from people who are really good at something. And I try to share also with young professionals across the world that I came across in my career, or even people that I connect with online, and we've ever met each other. But I also enjoy helping young professionals develop themselves, and giving them practical advice about the challenges they face in their business, in their day to day lives, and how to be grounded professionals, and to keep to keep growing in our industry. It's something that I really, really enjoy, and that I plan to continue doing and get tremendous value from that. And I enjoy helping helping other

Andy Follows: 1:19:14

Wonderful, close to my heart. And I think in this people grow as well. conversation, you've shared some very inspiring stories that will help our listeners with some of their own thoughts around moves to make and perhaps what mindset to take into certain situations. And you've just lifted the curtain behind how you've navigated it and I love that my guest share and like thank you very much for sharing your story today. I've thoroughly enjoyed getting to know more about you and feeling more connected as a result. So thank you, Peter.

Pieter Demaeght: 1:19:48

Thank you Andy for the opportunity to share. It's been it's been a great experience bringing back some of the stories and I hope you enjoyed it and hopefully some of your guests enjoy it as well.

Andy Follows: 1:20:01

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience and where you find yourself right now, you'll have your own takeaways from Pieter’s story, some elements that stood out for me were that he had a challenging childhood, but one that was always looked at positively the natural progression into law, but his heart not being in it. And in finding more passion, studying business, a great initiation to consulting with a mentor, Ronny, a sense that this was still not all there was and there could be more him getting the opportunity to join BMW on the management programme, and the repeating sequence of getting an opportunity working really hard. And then growing into the next role. His having a great family relationship alongside all this. So a very supporting family background as a child and now a good partnership with his wife and the fire lighting up in her eyes at the idea of venturing further than Munich, and to Southeast Asia. And now the well thought out approach to moving to Portugal to raise their family in Europe. I feel privileged to share Pieter’s experiences and learnings with you. If you'd like to connect with Pieter, we'll put his contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Pieter for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests’ life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening.