Steve Siebold: When ability, coachability, commitment, curiosity and luck combine to turn a professional athlete into a sales growth expert, top 1% speaker and personal development revolutionary.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Steve Siebold.

Since 1997, Steve Siebold, CSP, CFEd has helped Fortune 100 companies increase sales by $1.3 billion USD through his flagship training program, Mental Toughness University.

Siebold has delivered $16 million in keynote speeches at National and International Conventions for companies such as Johnson & Johnson, Ingersoll-Rand, Caterpillar, Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, Toyota, Chrysler-Fiat, Transamerica and hundreds of others.

His 12 books have sold over 1.6 million copies, including the #1 selling book of 2020 on Personal Finance, How Money Works, with co-author Tom Mathews. Siebold’s books have been translated into 7 languages.

He’s a former professional tennis player and national coach. His sports clients include Andre Agassi, the Boston Celtics, Miami Marlins and Ohio State Buckeyes.

As the CEO of Siebold Success Network, Steve oversees a team of 118 inside and outside salespeople, which gives him unique insights on how to build a mentally tough sales team.

Steve’s work has been featured on every major television network in the United States and Canada, and his interviews and articles have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Forbes, USA Today and hundreds of other publications around the world.

As a professional speaker, Steve ranks among the top 1% of income earners worldwide. He is the former chairman of the National Speakers Association’s Million-Dollar Speaker Group.

In our conversation, we talk about what Steve learned from his professional tennis career and how that helped him as an entrepreneur, the value of coaches and mentors (particularly if we are able to follow their guidance with commitment), how it's easier to commit if what we are committing to is genuinely the right thing for us, the role that luck has played in his success and how he and his wife and business partner Dawn are now intent on giving back and giving others a hand up in various ways including the International Personal Development Association whose mission is to reduce human suffering around the world through personal development. 

I first got to know about Steve in 2010 and I've followed his work ever since. I'm delighted that he joined me to create this episode and I'm thrilled to share his insights with you.

Connect with Steve on LinkedIn: Steve Siebold
Speaker Steve Siebold
International Personal Development Association
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Episode recorded on 4 January 2024.

Transcript

Steve Siebold: 0:00

Yeah, I think you got it, you got to realise why you're asking yourself why you're willing to direct all this mental energy into one thing. I mean, how much do you really care about this. And I think that if you're so in love with what you're doing, whether it's competition, or it's building a business or being a parent, or whatever it is, then you can accept the drain the mental drain the energy drain it takes to focus on one thing, exclusive of all others for a certain period of time. It takes an incredible amount of energy to do that and focus and it's not that easy, because shiny object syndrome is, you know, one of the things that that happens to all of us you see something else and you go over and start chasing something else. I think it's much more difficult to focus on one thing with all that mental power, ignoring everything else. So I think you have to start out with is this really worth it? Is it worth this kind of energy?

Aquilae: 0:48

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy Follows: 1:20

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously join me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career today of Steve Siebold. Since 1997, Steve Siebold has helped fortune 100 companies increase sales by 1.3 billion US dollars through his flagship training programme, mental toughness University. Seybold has delivered $16 million in keynote speeches at national and international conventions for companies such as Johnson and Johnson, Ingersoll, Rand, Caterpillar, Merck, GlaxoSmithKline, Toyota, Chrysler, Fayette, trans America, and hundreds of others. His 12 books have sold over 1.6 million copies, including the number one selling book of 2020 on personal finance how money works with co author Tom Matthews. seaboards books have been translated into seven languages. He's a former professional tennis player and national coach. His sports clients include Andre Agassi, the Boston Celtics, Miami Marlins and Ohio State Buckeyes. As the CEO of Seybold Success Network, Steve oversees a team of 118 inside and outside salespeople, which gives him unique insights on how to build a mentally tough sales team. Steve's work has been featured on every major television network in the United States and Canada. And his interviews and articles have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, fortune, Forbes, USA Today and hundreds of other publications around the world. As a professional speaker, Steve ranks among the top 1% of income earners worldwide. He's the former chairman of the National Speakers Association's million dollar speaker group. In our conversation, we talk about what Steve learned from his professional tennis career, and how that helped him as an entrepreneur, the value of coaches and mentors, particularly if we're able to follow their guidance with commitment, how it's easier to commit, if what we're committing to is genuinely the right thing for us, the role that luck has played in his success, and how he and his wife and business partner dawn, and now intent on giving back and giving others a hand up in various ways, including the International Personal Development Association, whose mission is to reduce human suffering around the world through personal development, and you'll find links to that in the show notes to this episode. I first got to know about Steve in 2010. And I've followed his work ever since I'm delighted that he joined me to create this episode, and I'm thrilled to share his insights with you. Hello, Steve, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Steve Siebold: 4:22

Atlanta, Georgia.

Andy Follows: 4:24

Thank you so much for joining me. I'm very excited for this conversation. My listeners will find out in due course what an impact you've had on me. And we'll talk about one particular programme where I met you and how that what that did for me, but first of all, as with all my guests, I'd like to find out please, where were you born? And let's talk a little bit about your childhood.

Steve Siebold: 4:43

I was born in Chicago in the early 60s and grew up in the Midwest in the US.

Andy Follows: 4:49

And what were your parents doing? Always ask I want to know what my guests what roles they had, you know, what jobs did they have sight of when they were growing up? What sort of influences so what did your parents MST

Steve Siebold: 5:00

My mom was a stay at home mother and my dad was my whole family. My whole extended family outside of me. I think I'm one of the only people I know I'm one of the only people that my whole extended family that's not in the in the mechanisation, industrial mechanisation business our family's been in that for over 100 years and so all over the all over the country and in the US. And so as I was the only one that really didn't get involved with that, but but that's what my dad did. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 5:27

Okay. Well, you've had, it seems to me a very deliberate, very intentional, it certainly looks like a very intentional, unique career yourself. So I'm looking forward to exploring that. First, though. Do you have brothers and sisters? I do have three brothers. And where do you fit in the pecking order?

Steve Siebold: 5:45

And the youngest and the baby? Okay.

Andy Follows: 5:48

So sometimes the parents have got it all out the system. By the time that sort of third one comes along, and you have a different experience of being a child. Was that the case for you?

Steve Siebold: 5:56

Yeah, yeah, i can't i They're all my closest brother is six years older. So I kind of grew up mostly on my own in terms of siblings, which is a unique experience itself. So

Andy Follows: 6:06

And how was school for you? How would your teachers have described you, Steve?

Steve Siebold: 6:11

Oh, that's interesting question. I've never gotten on an interview before, probably not engaged. For the most part until college. Yeah, I was mostly focused on practising tennis since I was six years old, I travelled around the country, and then eventually in different parts of the world and training to be a professional tennis player. So I was pretty much focused on that. Not as much school as I probably should have been. Right?

Andy Follows: 6:34

And how did you come where your siblings into tennis? Were your parents into tennis? Or how did you get into tennis at such an early age?

Steve Siebold: 6:41

Yeah, there were all kinds of casual club tennis players and, and that's how I learned it and just kind of just came very easily to me, and I really enjoyed it. So that's how I got started with it.

Andy Follows: 6:50

And to what extent and so you say you were focused on that at school? To what extent do you think having that in your very early years to the level that you did, I mean, just say a little bit about the level you got to and the standard of tennis that you were playing and the amount of discipline required, etc? Just say a little bit about that. And then I'll follow up with my question.

Steve Siebold: 7:09

Yeah, I got I wanted to be obviously a top player in the world, but I only made it to the top 500 in the world, which was hard to it's difficult back then it was difficult to make a living at the top 500. So I eventually realised that, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't going to happen for me, but it really did. It really shaped. You know, whatever success I've had over the years, and it really helped shape me because like you say, the discipline of you know, getting up early in the morning and working out and running and training, and then going to school, and then after school training, and pretty much my entire childhood. So you don't live a normal childhood. That way as as someone trying to be a professional athlete, it's sort of a it's a different kind of a child. It's not bad. It's just different. And it's it really revolves around a lot of structure and discipline, and training and exhaustion, and travelling and those kinds of things. But it was really a great experience for me.

Andy Follows: 8:00

Yeah. And so from what age to what age was tennis, the priority for you,

Steve Siebold: 8:06

from 6, 6 years old at 22. I retired when I was 22.

Andy Follows: 8:09

So a significant proportion of time focused on that. And I have the sense that that discipline that focus that mental toughness, which of course mental toughness University has been a big part of your career, obviously. So do you feel looking back? Clearly, you've gained a lot from those years. Are there? Is there anything you think you might have missed out on?

Steve Siebold: 8:33

I suppose a little bit I used to, you know, when I was little kid, I used to see the kids right in there back in the day, you know, they ride their bikes around the neighbourhood kids kids did more stuff, more things outside, I think back in those days, but yeah, all the kids that neighbour to be playing, I used to always think to myself, what an easy life. I mean, you just ride the bike around, play around play in the rain planter, the spring player, go in the pool, if there's a pool in the neighbourhood, you know, that kind of thing. And I always felt like it was so they had such an easy life. And I was training all the time. Looking back, I really don't think I missed anything. But when I was a kid, I thought I certainly thought I was

Andy Follows: 9:02

Yeah, so looking back, nothing that it's too big a loss. What about though that time when you're 22 years old, and you're coming to the conclusion that you've made it to the top 500. But that's not enough to make a living out of this. So everything you've been focused on in six years old, you're now coming to some kind of conclusion that you need to do something different. Is there a story around that? Did you do you remember what that was like and how you made that decision?

Steve Siebold: 9:29

Yeah, I was sitting at Nick Bollettieri Tennis Academy in Florida. And we're I was living in still training and I met Andre Agassi, who was a brand new pro player and a little bit younger than me. And I watched him I watched him practice for about an hour and I was talking to his coach at that time was again and Nick voluntary, and I loved watching him practice and I thought I'll just, you know, he was he was ranked lower than me at that time. He was ranked 618 in the world and I was I was just under 500 and I just beaten the guy who was 512 more accurately. And so I thought I'm ranked ahead of him tactically, and there's no way I'll ever have that kind of talent. And it really was the thing that that was the part of the event that that got me thinking, I'm just a step away from it. But, you know, I'm never going to be quite at that level that he was, of course, then, you know, a couple years later, he was one of the top players in the world. And I was on the coaching team working with him. But yeah, that was sort of a wake up call of watching him practice.

Andy Follows: 10:23

And was that it was a bit of a blow, did you go home after that lunch after that day with you sort of in your boots? Or, you know, how did you process it,

Steve Siebold: 10:33

I kind of always knew I was, you know, the top players like that. They're just a step ahead. And it's a, it's a very subtle, small step. But it's the difference between being good at something and being great at it. You know, I was very good at it in tennis, but great is like another level. And typically, the people that really know the difference are the players, some of the top coaches do, but usually they're former players. That's why but it you have to really be in it, I think, to realise you're missing just a little bit, the timings not quite as fast, your feet aren't quite as fast, just a little bit of difference makes all the difference in the world. And I really knew that before. But it's hard to say at the training that long, it's hard to face it. But you know, I kind of knew that along the way, in the last, you know, five or six years before that.

Andy Follows: 11:19

Yeah, I can imagine you'd be picking up clues along the way. And then that Agassi moment, yeah, brought it front and centre, that there's a gap here that, you know, with the best will in the world and all the effort, you're not going to be able to bridge. So what did you choose to do? Do you have any other lines of inquiry? And were you thinking what your backup plan would be? Or was this an okay, right, I need to think of something else now.

Steve Siebold: 11:43

Yeah, I always wanted to be in business for myself, I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So I thought about that. But I had no real marketable skills, unfortunately. And so that wasn't good. But so I went into the thing that, you know, I was invited to be a coach at the voluntary Academy under Agassi and a guy named Jim Courier, who at that time was number one in the world. And so I had some some opportunities there. And, and that was good. And then so I went into coaching for the next eight years, I coached high level amateur players, and then, and then professional players as well, like magazine courier working on the teams with them. And then and then started doing Mental Toughness Training, the psychology of performance, which was kind of a new discipline, back professional discipline back in those days, and started working with Olympic swimmers and all kinds of different athletes, high level athletes and the psychology of performance and, and that's what I ended up eventually taking a corporate America. So I was very lucky, the way it worked out. Really,

Andy Follows: 12:36

It all makes sense that looking back, you can see how you've managed to achieve what you've achieved, because there's the red line, if you like, through being good at something is different from being able to coach it, though. So when you join the coaching team, had you already done lots of coaching at that age and found that you had an affinity for that as well? Or was there a did you have to sort of learn about being a coach after you've been a great player?

Steve Siebold: 13:01

Yeah, no, I've never been a coach. But I've been coach since I was six years old. And I was very lucky because back then, in those days, where I grew up in Chicago, they that was a powerhouse in the whole world. It was a powerhouse. I mean, literally back then, not quite as much today. But back in those days in Chicago was probably, you know, the fifth or sixth, you know, biggest city for tennis, junior tennis players in the in the world, which was pretty amazing, just, you know, pure luck on my part, just to be part of that. So I had really top coaches. And so I so my coaching experience really wasn't so much coaching, but just being coached for so many years and this specific thing, you know, tennis, that I felt like I had, that that's where most of the coaches really learn, you know, but when you're coaching at that level, you're coaching subtleties. You know, when people used to ask me, you know, what do you say to a guy like Andre Agassi as a coach, and I said to one of the newspapers back then I said very little, and then they laughed. I said, No, I'm actually serious that when you're coaching a professional athlete, which of course I did, much later, with teams and professional sports teams, and everything, you're in coaching subtleties tiny little things that only a trained eye can really see. Because these athletes are so outstanding. They don't need the basics. The basics are there, obviously. So you're just looking for subtlety. So it's just, it's just having sort of an eagle eye for little differences, that usually someone that's been in that sport at some high level at a decent level would only be able to pick out.

Andy Follows: 14:23

So you'd have the experience being coached. As you said, the talent you're talking about. They don't need an awful lot. They just need someone who can actually spot the helpful points to make one thing when I was reflecting before this conversation, Steve, on your trajectory, if you like and how it fits together and how the party set out on has potentially helped you. Along the way. One of the thoughts that I had was that you were exposed to coaching from a very early age. And I know you talk about mentors as well, which we'll come on to but I don't know you are prepared. I read your acceptance of the value of coaching must have been instilled in you. And do you think that's contributed to your openness and your ability to find coaches or mentors throughout your career and to benefit from that?

Steve Siebold: 15:15

Oh, without a doubt, I mean, you realise the importance of a great coach. I mean, again, same thing difference in a good coach and a great coach, at least in my experience, is just night and day, I mean, someone that really knows what they're doing, where you can open up and just be, you know, vulnerable and just accepting of their advice and their and their, their guidance. You know, it's just, there's just no way to put a price tag on it. And it's invaluable. So yeah, I think so I was used to being coached. So I was coachable, because that's all I knew I was six years old. When I started. I was travelling when I was seven. So you know, I was a little kid. And I was always used to a coach being there guiding me along the way. And I realised about I mean, I didn't know I was realising the value of it, obviously, as a kid. And then as I became a coach, I saw not so much with athletes, that's different, because they're, again, they're used to being coached. But people that in business, I realised were not a lot of times were not coachable. I thought, Well, they probably they're not because they don't realise the value because they don't have the experience of it. And it kind of shocked me, because I thought, how could you not take mentorship and coaching? When someone's there to guide you along the way, as long as they know what they're doing? It's just, I don't know, most people realise what that's worth.

Andy Follows: 16:19

Yeah. And then there was a psychology, you mentioned the psychology that you you need picked up. So what was going through your mind, you said early on that you had always wanted to be an entrepreneur, but you didn't have the necessary, I guess, the capabilities when you first you know, 22, he didn't have the capabilities for that. So that logical thing was get into the thing you did have some capability for whilst you were doing that coaching with those individuals on sports teams, were you already thinking about how you were going to become an entrepreneur? Or were you just pretty much focused on what you were doing?

Steve Siebold: 16:56

Yeah, I was thinking, Oh, I was definitely thinking about entrepreneurship. Because I, you know, I, I'd seen our family businesses thrive and that type of thing. So I knew that, you know, that was a good thing, if you could tap into something you really understood and build a business around it. And I really was always into the psychology of performance. Because some days I would really be locked in mentally. And I could see I could feel and see the difference and see the difference in my results as a tennis player. And then other days, I would just let up. And I didn't have that mental toughness. And I saw the difference with the gap. And I thought, wow, why is there a gap? Why Why can't I close the gap? I mean, what is it that I'm missing? Because I saw the power of it when it was when I was mentally tough. And a lot of times I was and then just other times, I would just let down. I couldn't exactly figure it out. So I was fascinated with it. From the beginning. I thought I can't be the only person thinking this there's got to be other people that wonder what is what what tools do you need? What psychological tools do you need to have that consistent mental toughness, like some people do? And so I really wanted to build something around that from day one, because that's really the life the only thing I really had lived, you know, besides playing tennis.

Andy Follows: 18:02

Yeah. So it sounds like you recognise if you could decode this surely, I'm not the only person who's experiencing this. If I can decode this and teach it, then I'm going to be solving a problem there. I should have asked you I missed I obviously missed it. Your your family. They were business owners, then they were entrepreneurs. So it when they were in the mechanism, you know, the mechanisation industry, they weren't just working in it, they were owning it and demonstrating some of that entrepreneurialism, is that right?

Steve Siebold: 18:31

Yeah, some of them were working for other parts of the family, most of the family working for family there were some outside companies a bunch of companies to this day, same thing. So I saw I saw the employee side I think as a kid and then I saw also the, the, you know, the owner side, which is a whole nother thing, which is obviously that comes with a lot of responsibility and, you know, financial risks and those types of things. But, but I like to I like to control. I think that's really what it came down to. It was never about making a tonne of money or anything like that. Oh, that's always a great thing. But it was more about just controlling my life. Because I had always done that with tennis. I always felt like I was in control. I don't know exactly that explain that. But then I always it always appealed to me, I guess. And I thought, well, if I could run my own business, then I could be in control of my life. And that's what I really wanted.

Andy Follows: 19:15

Okay, that piqued my interest when you said you're not sure how to explain how you felt you're in control with the tennis if you could explain it why you say you're not sure how to explain it. Why is that? What are you thinking around that?

Steve Siebold: 19:28

Well, you know, like most sports, especially sports where there's no team it's very democratic. You know, you win or lose based on your own efforts and your own psychology and your own everything. And so you're in control of it. There's no coaching and tennis when you play competitively you can't coach during the match you can coach afterwards and coach before but even though it's done in the pros, a lot of times illegally it's not legal. So you learn to live and die on your own you when you when you do something you play great. The press loves you. Everybody loves you. You think that oh, you're a genius. You're fantastic athlete and you You just just got lucky, maybe in one. And then sometimes you just get a bad braking and lose just by a little bit in your bum and you're terrible. And then you sort of lock yourself or I did anyway, sort of locked myself in a room as a kid, my room, and I think, okay, I go over the match, and especially when I lost the cars, and I go over and figure out all the different things I did, but win or lose, I always felt like I'm in control of this. I mean, this is not outs, these are not outside influences as much besides my opponent, but I'm in control of how I process this, I'm in control of how I play this, and how I go forward with it with the winner of the loss. And I really, I really love that feeling, I still love it to this day of that I don't need the outside world as influence for my life, I can control it and let them in, if I want them, block them. If I don't want,

Andy Follows: 20:45

I love it

Steve Siebold: 20:45

strange mentality, probably, you know,

Andy Follows: 20:47

well, yeah but it all makes sense to it's another contributing factor to who you are, and what you've what you're able to do. So you have the discipline of being from six to 20, to an athlete, elite sports person, you have this responsibility, you you took ownership for your own performance, day in day out, it was nobody else's responsibility. So that really is very valuable as well. And you have this total acceptance that you're going to have a coach, or you're going to have people helping you you can't do this alone, you're going to be learning from others. As you pointed out, some of the business people you've come across, haven't had that they haven't realised that they can get that help. So this is all what makes a lot of sense. I took us down a couple of side tracks you were just about to explain are starting to explain how you identified this. Some days you had the mental toughness, some days you didn't, surely you weren't the only one, if you could decode this, that could be really valuable. So is that a good place to go now and just talk a bit more about how you did that?

Steve Siebold: 21:55

Sure. Yeah. I mean, it's always fascinating. I mean, we're you know, and a lot of times coaches will take on your, you're so dialled in, you're so mentally tough, you know, some days and other days, you just let down. And it wasn't like I didn't want to win, it was just a lack of focus. And what I found was, it was just, it was where what I eventually after years, after I retired of studying, it was just taking the mental energy that is required. As an athlete, you know, especially when you're exhausted physically, to keep that level of mental energy focused on the task at hand, pointing and point out for hours, sometimes at a time. That's not that easy to do. And so sometimes I would let that mental energy drift over thinking about maybe it was my girlfriend at the time, or, you know, something else, whatever, whatever it was, but it wasn't the match in terms of the mental energy and intensity of the mental energy that I had before. And I would let it drift a little bit. And I learned how to bring that back. Unfortunately, I was retired by then. And then I started but so it was too late for me as a player, but I was able to coach a lot of people and a lot of professional sports teams over the years and, and then you know, corporate salespeople and all that kind of thing, where to direct your mental energy toward the performance exclusively or as close to that as they possibly could. So that was kind of my, my discovery, it took me about four or five years to figure it out. Right?

Andy Follows: 23:11

Is there a tip you could give an example of for helping people keep that focus?

Steve Siebold: 23:16

Yeah, I think you gotta you have to realise why you're asking yourself why you're willing to direct all this mental energy into one thing? I mean, how much do you really care about this. And I think that if you're so in love with what you're doing, whether it's competition, or it's building a business, or being a parent, or whatever it is, then you can accept the drain the mental drain the energy drain it takes to focus on one thing, exclusive of all others for a certain period of time, it takes an incredible amount of energy to do that, and focus. And it's not that easy, because shiny object syndrome is, you know, one of the things that that happens to all of us, you see something else, and you go over and start chasing something else, I think it's much more difficult to focus on one thing with all that mental power, ignoring everything else. So I think you have to start out with is this really worth it? Is it worth this kind of energy? And when you start there, and I think if the answer is yes, well, then then it's not that difficult. But the answer is, well, I'm not really sure, then it's, it's not so easy.

Andy Follows: 24:12

Yeah. So sounds like a large part of it is actually picking the right thing to focus on.

Steve Siebold: 24:15

Let me cut you off at I just just wrote one thing. I mean, just as a parallel, I think, and I don't know how you feel about this, but like, I've been married for a lot. Like, you know, Dawn and I have been married for 40 years this year. And so if people have asked over the years, you know, it seems to be more of a rare thing as time goes on. And people get married and from different reasons. But over the years, I'd say maybe 15 or 20 years into being married people who have no idea. What's the secret? You know, and I'd say, I don't know the secret of marriage necessarily. I'm not that bright. I mean, I don't know what that is. But I would say if there's any secret whatsoever, it's marrying the right person. And if you have to guess like, I've had people call me and say what do you think about her? What do you my friends? What do you think about her over the year? And I'd say if you have to ask me that question. Shouldn't you should not get married, because you are not 100%. When I met dawn, I knew that was who I was going to marry. And I'm not It's not saying it like a bragging thing. I just knew that that was the person I wanted to be with. And I've never changed that thought in 40 years. I mean, obviously, we've had ups and downs like everybody, but it's either fully right and you know, it's or you don't, it's in my mind, it's a zero sum equation. And when you have that kind of certainty, then you don't mind directing your mental energy or your physical energy or your life as a married partner to someone you know, because you have you have that certainty. And I think that's, it's a parallel, but I think it's, it's, it's, it's a true parallel.

Andy Follows: 25:37

It's an excellent one. Well, I'm so glad you shared that. And I was going to ask you about Dawn anyway. So it's great that we've, you've brought her into the conversation, but I love that idea. And I agree with you that, you know, I know our parents will have told us, you know, it's marriage is something you have to work out. It's not love is a doing word, it's a verb. It's not, you know, something that just happens magically. But I agree, it helps an awful lot. If you start with the right person, if you're 40, there's a lot of luck involved in finding the right person. So I'm thrilled for you and Dawn that you have, and I'm married, coming up 30 years this year, with my wife. We've been together for 35 years. So I share that experience. And I love her to bits. And we also work together like you and Dawn work together. So how's that ever? You've worked together for a long time haven't yet.

Steve Siebold: 26:31

Yeah, we, we, we've worked together now for I guess about 25 years, we worked together. I mean, really, we've been together since we were 19 years old. So it's been forever. But in terms of building companies, we started Bill we hired Bill Gove and I, my late business partner, we hired Dawn full time in 1999. I think it was and and then she she started telling us what to do ever since and we just, we just I just do what she tells me to do based on the idea that and then everything's fine if I do that, because she's smarter than I am anyways. I just got to follow along and, you know, do what I'm told.

Andy Follows: 27:06

You'd be foolish not to. So marvellous. So going back and you mentioned Bill Gove, we'll come back to Bill Gove because uh, definitely want to talk about that. Four or five years it took you to work out what the focus piece and the Mental Toughness piece. And so what did you do with that? When did you move into corporate America? You're taking it to corporate America? And is how did that happen?

Steve Siebold: 27:28

Yeah, I started I started working with really, you know, top tennis players than than other athletes and other sports. And I wasn't making much money doing it, but I was having some pretty good success. And then I got an offer to work with Pete Sampras, who at that time was number one of the world and I saw the I wasn't going to make very much money and he didn't want to pay too much. But, but I had an offer to do that. And I saw that professional athletes, you could work with them. But it was hard to make a living beyond, you know, a decent living. So I decided to jump out briefly into the medical mechanisation business and I started a company actually, I had been around it my whole life. So I knew something about it. It's never an expert at it. But that was my whole family. You know, every every family gathering since the time I was a little kid talked about that. And I worked there in the summer, sometimes with the jobs and that type of thing. So we started up a mechanisation business and it took off. And we did very well with it. And I just didn't I didn't like it. I liked the business. I didn't like the people so much. Not so much not liking the people, but I just didn't it just wasn't my group, you know. And so that's when I found out I had all this money suddenly that I never had before. And we're living in a penthouse apartment on the ocean in Fort Lauderdale. And I'm miserable. And I'm thinking that's interesting, because I always thought, well, all these these people with all this money, I mean, they got it made, right. And my friends are always saying you went from making$40,000 a year to all this money. And it was very in a very short period of time. And we had some good luck on it. And there's a lot of money involved in that in that business. And I was miserable. I hated it. I just hated my life. It wasn't about the money, you can't buy your I learned that lesson that you know, there was you couldn't you can't buy your happiness. That's just a ridiculous premise that I really didn't understand until that time. So I got out of that pretty quickly cost me a lot of money to get out. But that was probably the smartest thing I ever did in my life.

Andy Follows: 29:14

What did you do then after that?

Steve Siebold: 29:17

Yeah, then I jumped out and went back into coaching because I didn't really know what to do. And then and then I was playing in a little garage band in Florida just for fun. I'm a hack guitar player, but I was playing this little band and a guy actually came up to me during the break. And he said, and I know you already know what you do with these athletes locally. And I've heard you know about the great work you do and everything. And he said, just as you know, as an older guy, and he said I don't wanna hurt your feelings. He says, But no one's ever going to pay you to play that guitar or sing, you know, and I said no, I know that,

Andy Follows: 29:47

That's unnecessary.

Steve Siebold: 29:50

During the break, I got to play another two hours, you know? Well, he was right of course because we were just kind of having fun with it. But he said what you ought to do is put that guitar down and pick up that microphone. Instead of singing, you start talking to audiences and corporations about what you're doing with these athletes in the sports teams. He goes, because it's extraordinary, he said, but no one knows who you are. And that's probably why you're more of a local guy than someone on a on a world stage or a national stage or whatnot. He said, Yeah, you ought to start speaking about it. Public speaking, which I hated. You know, I thought I'd say a word. Last thing I want to do is go be a public speaker, great front and make a fool out of myself. But I started looking into it. And that's kind of how I started going down that road. And that was changed my life. It was a lucky break.

Andy Follows: 30:32

And who was the guy and just just

Steve Siebold: 30:35

the guy at the party, just some guy. I don't know who he was. I never saw him before. Since.

Andy Follows: 30:39

Okay, wow. If this was if this was a movie, that's an interesting scene where he drops in and just leaves you with that message.

Steve Siebold: 30:47

He must have been a friend of a friend. Yeah. And I think that's probably why he was comfortable saying it. So yeah, it was interesting.

Andy Follows: 30:52

But you listened, you listened?

Steve Siebold: 30:54

Well, it made sense, because I thought, well, you know, I know the things that I'm doing are working yet. I'm not really I'm just sort of doing this locally. And I was sort of struggling financially, of course with it. And I thought, well, that really makes sense. I wonder if corporate salespeople you know, or business people are like athletes, because I just really didn't know, I didn't know any other worlds really, at that point, then people that were striving to be professional athletes. That's what I did my whole life. So I didn't really know anything. And I really did think naively, that most people have this discipline in this, you know, I just felt like everyone was like that, because everyone that I was around as a child, and as a young adult, was like that. They're all going to be pros at some at some sport. And so I thought everyone was kind of like that mentally. Well, I learned obviously, that's not even close to true. But it took me a while to get there. So

Andy Follows: 31:42

yeah, but another great example of how we we obviously believe for our own experience, so we learn from our own experience. And until we've been in seeing what's happening elsewhere, how could we possibly know how other people are thinking and behaving? Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in Executive Search, Resourcing Solutions and Talent Management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I’ve known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client-side experience which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was in 2004 when he helped me hire Regional Managers for my leasing sales team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy and identify and bring on board suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long-term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a 2-year performance guarantee which means they have‘skin in the game’ when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew and the team at hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk . ASKE is spelt A S K E You’ll find these contact details in the shownotes for this episode. Ok, let’s get back to our episode. So what did you take with this information with this idea? What did you do? What do you do with it?

Steve Siebold: 34:01

Yeah, I started looking into public speaking and what he was saying in companies and I thought well, salespeople might be up my alley in terms of maybe they're kind of like the professional athletes in the business world, which is not true either. But I thought well, that's probably as close as I could possibly get. And I started talking to people and and started seeking out training and public speaking and and that's when I stumbled across a gentleman named John Spannuth who told me about Bill Gove and the Bill Gove speech workshop and who Bill Gove was and I'd never heard of Bill Gove and but I heard of a lot of us students. And this John Spannuth, who was a mentor of mine said, you know, this is this is someone who can take you into this world at the at the international level, and teach you what it takes. And I thought that's what I need. I need a coach. So as you said earlier, you know, I knew the value of coaching and mentorship and I thought that's what I need. I don't know what I'm doing. I mean, I just don't know what I don't know. I'm coachable because I've always been coachable style I've ever known. And so I finally eventually it'll that next year so found Bill Gove and that course went to his workshop. I've changed my life completely.

Andy Follows: 35:01

Yeah, so I'm guessing a lot of listeners won't have heard of Bill Gove. So say a little bit about who he was and what he did.

Steve Siebold: 35:08

Yeah. So Bill Gove well, he was born in 1912. And he was a top salesman for 3M back in the days when scotch tape was just being invented. And he didn't invent scotch tape. There was an engineer at 3M that did that. But he popularised it in the United States. And then eventually, of course, it went around the world. But that was his big claim to fame. And so in 1953, he was, he was named the in the United States, the number one salesman in America. And he gave a speech about it, in front of about 14,000 people in Chicago, and he became the speaker that all these companies wanted, were asking him to go speak about his success as a salesperson. So he became one of the top speakers in the United States. At that point, almost overnight, it happened very quickly. And then people started asking him, he went full time in that business. And people started asking, Hey, I'd like to do what you do. And he started this programme he called the workshop. And it was just a little workshop with three or four people, maybe 10 people, and these executives would come in and they wanted to do Les Brown, be up fee paid speaker like Bill. And so he told them, he said, here's what I'm doing. I love it, you know, this is what you want. But here's what it is. And he kind of laid out his system. And that became eventually became known as the bill Gulf speech workshop, which trained, you know, to this day is trained, you know, the more successful speakers in the world than any other programme, you could probably put every programme in it commercially combined is never trained, that many top speakers but so that's where that whole thing came from. But that's he became known as the father of professional speaking because of all the people he trained through that little workshop that continues today.

Andy Follows: 36:39

So he decoded what he did, had he learned it from someone else or had he just created this.

Steve Siebold: 36:45

Yeah, he followed a guy named Dr. Kenneth McFarland, who at that time was in the United States was the top professional speaker. And Bill also Bill Gove also was a person that really understood mentorship, he was a great baseball player, not like pro level, but semi pro, he played in the semi pro league, they had won in the, in the United States, I had one. For years, where the semi pro players are just a little bit below, the pros would travel and they would stay in people's homes, and they'd put them up because they didn't make a lot of money. But he travelled like that for several years. And so he knew the value of coaching. So he sought out this Kenneth McFarland, who they used to call the dean of American speakers, and he used to follow him around, and the President of three, because Bill was, you know, a big shot and three, and he told him, he said, he goes, You should follow Him until He just follow him to his speeches and see what he's doing. And Bill used to show up everywhere, and, you know, he'd be in the audience and Kenneth McFarlane would say, You're stalking me, you know, and Bill said, You got to coach me, you got to mentor me, I, this is what I want to do. And Dr. McFarland said, you know, I am, thank you. I'm flattered. I don't coach speakers, but thank you for recognising me and all that. And the Bill finally just persisted until he acquiesced and then the story is that of course, he became Bill groves coach, and then and then for 30 years after that the top two speakers in the United States at least were Dr. Kenneth MacFarland and his student Bill Gove. That's quite a story.

Andy Follows: 38:07

It's quite a story. And one I know you've told many times before, so thanks for sharing it again. For my listeners benefit now. And that's how I met so a friend of mine, I was in Singapore, I was working in Singapore. And friends wives got to know me a little bit and she said, Andy, I think you should do the Bill Gove speech workshop, I think this is something you'd really love to do. And I thought about it. And I started, I Googled you and I listened to some stuff, and I was getting emails from you. And eventually the time came, we moved to New Zealand and I saw that you were running a programme in Australia in Sydney in November 2010, the stars aligned and I thought, Okay, well, I'll jump on a plane from New Zealand, I'll go to Sydney, and I'll do the programme. And it was phenomenal. It was absolutely amazing. And I wrote in my journal, at the end of that, you know, what an experience it was a revelatory experience where the word I used, you know, Steve and Dawn had put on this programme, and it was was incredible. So I was so excited by and I have remembered, I like to think so many elements of it. And it's been, yes, so useful, so useful in so many, so many situations. So thank you again for that. And if anyone's listening is now curious. You are still running the programme, aren't you? It's still something you can do.

Steve Siebold: 39:29

Yeah, during COVID We switched it to, of course there were no live events. So we switched into an online course so people can go to if they want to go to speechworkshop.com They can take the online course. It's all done and we did it in the television studio during COVID. We put the whole thing out there and so they can do it right now. We're not running a live courses. We're just we just had the online course.

Andy Follows: 39:49

Yeah, so highly recommend that listeners and I also met a friend I made a friend on those three days Dr. Peter Dry, who's in St. Louis, now Missouri. He was in Australia at the time became a really close friend. So I got that to take away from the programme as well. How old were you, Steve, when you heard about Bill Gove, and when sort of, you know, started pursuing this line,

Steve Siebold: 40:13

I was 32 when I met him, and he was 85. And so he had this big, big age gap, but we just, you know, when I went to his workshop, we just kind of hit it was I was a one on one workshop. And we just hit it off. He just sort of, I don't know what it was just you know, sometimes you hit it off with people and you have the same value system, same sense of humour. He was a really funny guy. And we just laughed, you know, for three days going back and forth. And just sort of kindred spirits, I guess, in a way and so that was very lucky, though. The age gap was huge. We were just perfect business partners, this perfect of a business partnership. You know, I've most perfect one I've ever had just amazing. Just a lot of luck, as you say, you know?

Andy Follows: 40:53

Yeah And that mentoring that so it was John, do you say John standeth was the guy who's got Spannuth Spannuth Spannuth

Steve Siebold: 41:01

Yeah, he was my mentor that is known Bill Gove gone to the Bill Gove speech workshop years before. And he was a very big player in the in the swimming industry International. He ran the US United States water fitness association for years. And he I just happen to have I opened up my little office down the hall from his and he's a very friendly guy. And he came over one day and he said, you know, what are you doing? I said, Well, I'm trying to be a speaker and mental toughness, talk about mental toughness. And he said, he said, Well, speaker, have you ever heard of this? He just was, you know, a guy that was an office down the hall. I mean, yeah. How lucky can you get? I mean, like you said, if it's a movie, and of course they they have brochures about how he was approached me years ago about making a movie out of it. And because it is such a it's such a one of those lucky stories. He just came down. It's, you know, what do you do? And I told him, he said, Well, you oughta you ever build Govan? I said, No. And he goes, Well, he's trained more professional speakers. In any one of the world. They said, Well, who was some of his students? And he told me, and of course, people like Zig Ziglar, and Bob Proctor and all these big names. And I said, You got I'd never heard of him, though. He said, Well, you know, I'll introduce you sometime. And then I met and then he did he, we had lunch together. And that was when I went to the workshop. And I mean, it was just blind luck. I mean, you just can't get any luckier than that. You know, I'm a struggling speaker, making no money. And the next day, I'm connected to one of the biggest people that ever did it, the father of the industry, and he's guiding me step by step down the path. I mean, how lucky can you get?

Andy Follows: 42:22

It's phenomenal. I love it. And I love that you acknowledge the luck that one of my guests, he had this little formula for his success. He said, its reputation, network and luck. And those, you know, to hear you acknowledge that luck is great. So there you were. And I'm thinking also, you'd already you accepting you had a mentor, you'd been in your late 20s already having a mentor and accepting that, that was going to help. And then great opportunity meet Bill. How long did it take for things to take off? And did that? Were you still mental toughness was your topic but Bill's model and approach was the way to communicate it was that what was happening?

Steve Siebold: 43:03

Yeah, I went to the workshop, he said, Well, give me your speech, you know, that was trying to promote and I'd given ones a cut one speech for $500 or not, I'm sorry,$250. I take it back now. 500. The first one was 250. And I given a few speeches like that. And that that's it. I was struggling, I was going nowhere with it. So he said, well give me the speech. So I gave him the mental toughness, speech. And he said, that's really unique. He's I played semi pro baseball, he told me his story. He goes, what you're saying is, that's really like, I understand what you're saying. It's really good. It's different. I've never heard of it like that. You as you want to really be more like a college professor. Have you thought about that? And I said, I don't even know what I learned in college. I'm not to this day. I don't even know what I learned. I don't even know why I went to college. He said, Well, what the way you're delivering the speech, Steve, he said, the content is great. But you're more like a teacher like a professor. He said, They don't pay for that. And professional speaking you have to be an entertainer. I said, I don't want to be an entertainer I that was never in plays or anything like that was always an athlete. That's not interesting to me at all. It goes well, that's the only way you're really going to get paid is if you can make this entertaining. As a keynote speaker, you have to make this entertain, so I don't even know how to do it. He goes well, I do know how to do it. And if that's what you wanna if you want to pursue this at this level paid speaking, he said, that's what you're gonna need to do. And I can teach it to you so but otherwise, he said, you're better off teaching at a college or something. He said, because you'll you won't make it because I'll save you, you know, years of struggle, you just won't happen. And so that's that was the sort of a defining moment for me, because I believed every word he said, because that guy was he if nothing else, he was the most honest person. I mean, he was just an honest, nice guy, you know, who would tell you the truth, whether you liked it or not, and a great coach as well. Luckily, I listen to him and I just started following everything he told me to do.

Andy Follows: 44:39

So that penny drop moment, if you like, was that to be a keynote speaker to get this revenues that you were looking for? You need to be an entertainer, not a teacher.

Steve Siebold: 44:49

Absolutely. That was the key thing. I mean, well, I give you an idea of just to put it numbers just to make it an easy way to judge it, I guess, or measure it. The year before the first year I was in the As I lost about $50,000, just trying to figure it out, go into seminars, go to National Speakers Association go to all these different places where, you know, I didn't know anything. So I think these people know what they're talking about. It turns out a lot of don't know what they're talking about, almost no one does in this business, except the top people typically. And it's a very small group of people around the world. But I didn't know any of that, then I thought all these people that tried to be speakers know what they were doing, and they and they don't. So I'm running around spending money, I got to office expenses, you know, all this, you know, I'm married, obviously, at this time, for a long time. I've been married for 10 years at that time. So we're not doing well financially and in Dawn's having to pick up the slack for me, and I'm feeling terrible about that. And I just lost $10 million, which at that time was a lot more than it is now even, you know, and so because I walked away from the mechanisation business, I had to give up my shares, which were worth about$10 million. And so I'm just feeling pretty bad. But then when he started guiding me, the next year, that very next year, going for $50,000, loss to$182,000, in revenue in one year. And just following what he told me to do, that was it. That's all I did was do everything he told me to do. And I went from minus 50, to 182, which to me was unbelievable, you know, really.

Andy Follows: 46:11

It's incredible. The bit it's making me think about is our belief systems. So you had this ability, you trusted him, you could see this guy knows what he's doing. You had the ability to get out of your own way, if you like, get out of your head and just copy what he told you to do and accept that. And I just wonder how much that is a fact that people struggle with to believe that they can make that kind of a change to believe that because someone else can earn that kind of money, I can earn that kind of money. Is it? Is that something you've come across?

Steve Siebold: 46:43

Yes, I agree with you. 100%. I think that that if you find the right mentor, then you've got to you've got to be completely vulnerable. Give yourself up to that mentor. And if you don't believe him, then don't follow him. But if you go, I think most people go halfway or a lot of people maybe I shouldn't say most, but I think a lot of people least in my experience go halfway they kind of they're half in and half out. And I guess just luckily because I'd had that coaching as a kid, I had been told that from the time I was six years old, you follow the coach, if the coach tells you to jump in the lake, you jump in the lake. I mean, it's almost to that point where and then I had someone say that to me actually the speaker's meeting, when I was bragging about Bill COVID, a Florida speakers meeting, and someone's actually stood up in the group about 100 people Bill was not there. And they said, Yeah, I was told oh, great. Bill go was in the beginning. After I went to the workshop. I hadn't made any money. But I told him how great it was. And someone said, Geez, if Bill Gove told you to jump in the lake, would you jump in the lake right in front of all these people? I said, You bet your ass I would. That's exactly what I said. I said, he's my coach. Of course I would. And they looked at me like I was nuts. No thought, of course, he's your coach, of course, I would jump with a guy tells me to mow his lawn and mow his lawn. I mean, you're either in or you're not at that level, to be a professional, you know, I think you have to have that kind of commitment to the coach. And if you don't believe in the coach and don't follow the coach, but it's all or nothing, going halfway or going nine tenths of the way is a formula for failure.

Andy Follows: 48:02

I think that's an incredible segment, the focus you had that you from six years old, you'd been trained to be single mindedly focused on one thing and to accept the word of your coach and to do their bidding, how that prepared you, then for when you had the good fortune to be paired up with Bill, you were ready when you to be programmed with the success formula, if you like for speaking perfectly,

Steve Siebold: 48:32

I was totally ready. I mean, I was on fire because I'd lost all that money. I was mad at myself about not walking away because I was miserable. But I was mad that I had this fine. And I felt bad for Dawn because she had you know, she was struggling as well financially, obviously, as I was. And so I kind of put her in that spot because I was so miserable with the business so that I felt bad about that. And then you know, the tennis thing not working out and I thought okay, here's my shot. You know, I'm a man of limited talent. And so I knew I only had a few things I could do well, then following a coach was certainly one of them. You know, Bill said to me, he said, Look, he goes, I said what do I need to do? Bill we talked to each other like we were both former athletes, which we were and he really understood the athlete mentality and I love that about him and so we could really communicate it might sound funny, but we could communicate on that level. I said, Bill, we're both athletes tell me what to do. He goes you want a straight or you want you know, and I bill just like athletes, coaches and in sports give it to you straight especially at the pro level. He said, If you do what you're doing, you'll never make it. There's just no way you might get lucky make a few bucks but you'll never be that successful. He said I if you do exactly what I tell you. He says in five years all these speakers you told me they're your heroes. You'll pass them like they're standing still. He said at least financially. He said I can snap my fingers and put you on a path. I can't do it for you. But I can put you on a path like no one else in the world can he goes I would never say this in a workshop. He was not a you know he this was not his style. He would never see him do this publicly. And that's why I really appreciate it. did it to me just because I gave it to him because I asked him as a as a friend as, as an athlete, former athlete, he said, If you do what I tell you to do in five years, you'll you'll, you'll never work another day in your life because I mean, you're gonna work as a speaker, but real work. You never have to worry about that again, you're never gonna have to pick up another tennis racket or anything like that. He said, so it's up to you what you want to do. I said, I've been tell him, You got my baby, tell me what to do. He said, Okay, let's go to work. And five years later, I was, you know, it was in seven figures. It was unbelievable. Like, like a movie. Like, like he said, I would be everything he said. And he worked. I mean, literally everything the guy would tell me to do work. I mean, it just he just knew what he was doing. He did it. He done it for 50 years on a world stage. He travelled all over the world, 22 times around the world. He did tours over his career, and he trained all these big people. And he just knew what he was doing. He was just very competent.

Andy Follows: 50:47

And he found in you someone who is prepared to follow and take the action. And have you done the same thing. I think you have done the same thing with others, haven't you?

Steve Siebold: 50:56

Yeah, it's been very difficult to find, you know, honestly, I mean, I want to make sure I say this right away. But it's very difficult. At least it has been for me to find people, that kind of commitment. I've gotten a lot of people with nine tenths commandments, 810 commandments. No one ever followed me like I followed Bill Gove. I'm not saying that like as a bragging, like, I'm better than anybody else. I just was locked in because I was coached. And I knew how to be coached. And it's one of the things I was good at. But you know, to your point I, I have a few there were a few that there have been a few that have done seriously well, that I privately coach, but finding that commitment, someone that would do anything that he told me to do, and I really did, you know, but again, I think it's not so much a credit to me as it is knowing the value of coaching. And I knew that 100% It wasn't even close. I knew I had great coaches, not local people. I'm talking about people that were the best among the best in the world. So I knew the difference between a good coach and a great coach. I knew he was a great coach. And then of course, it didn't hurt that. You know, the day after I went into business with Bill Goldberg got a call from one of my heroes, a speaker that I thought was one of the great speakers who I got to know eventually later, Bob Proctor, who said he loved Bob called me one day, the day after I went to business with Bill because Bill had called him and told him about he goes, who's this kid? What's his name? He's a tennis player, you're gonna run a business with this kid. He's 32. And Bill said, Yeah, and so they had a conversation. So Bob calls me the next day, but of course, didn't know me from Adam, except for Bill. And he called and said, You are the luckiest speaker in the world. That's exactly the first thing. And they said, Oh, what do you what do you mean? He goes, Do you know the opportunity you are sitting on? You've got the 85 year old father of professional speaking and I just got off the phone with him yesterday. He thinks you hung the moon. He's I don't know who you are, or what you've done or whatever he goes, but he thinks you're the greatest thing since sliced bread, which means you have the chance of a lifetime. He goes, he is the most knowledgeable speaker in the world. He goes he was my coach back in 1968. It changed my life. He told me his story. And he said, you know he's got this guy's got IOU scattered all over the world. He goes, if you're smart, you're the man that's going to cash them in. And and so he gave me all this advice. And he intended to do that. I mean, jeez, up till two weeks before he died, you know, Bob Proctor, which is just a couple of years ago. He was a great friend, of course, over the years. And we travelled and spoke with him all over and but it made my point going back to it and he was just said I was so sure that if I followed him, the things that he said were going to happen were going to happen. I wasn't questioning it. I didn't I didn't take breaks in the belief process. I just because I knew the value of coaching. And I believed everything he said, and it just turned out that he was right.

Andy Follows: 53:32

Yeah, and I'm also noticing you also were in a situation where, as you say, you theoretically lost $10 million, you'd walked away from something you had, I'm gonna suggest you had something to prove that you had something to catch back up that you'd given away, you'd been a little bit. I don't know what word you would describe whether it's self indulgent to say I don't want to do this business. I don't like this business. I deserve to be doing something I enjoy more than there. So you've got all that to make up for. And you wanted to support Dawn and not be as you know, bringing her down financially. So there was also some other contributing factors, but primarily this acceptance of coaching and a fantastic mentor in Bill Gove. So five years you're in seven figures doing speaking, you're now got major clients in corporate America. That's what was happening

Steve Siebold: 54:27

exactly Just by and again this is coming from a guy that never had a job like I never had a job in a company like how do you know how to go into a Johnson and Johnson or Procter and Gamble or anywhere and even you know how it is even know how to behave? Because I mean, you don't even know the culture and how they work and how they think and how they interact with you. Like you know, there's a thing about especially big corporations as you know, but I didn't know that because I'd never been there. Well Bill told me so here's how they here's how they are now you're you're used to the world of professional sports, you know, and you've had experience in the mechanisation industry which is you know, mill rights and iron worker He said, Well, there's some people like that he goes, but this is very different than either one of those things. You know, he Bill Grove grew up in Maine by the shipyard. So he knew what that was like, what that mentality was like, and he knew professional sports. But that was like, he said, corporate America is a very different thing. You know, it's a very different culture. He said, so he was coached me on how to go into these companies. And then some of his students like Larry Wilson, who was the main one taught me how to sell them. And I mean, I just had the guidance, you know, all the way through the just step by step. So if I get any credit whatsoever, the only credit I really deserve, it's just sticking to following the path that they put me on, but I certainly didn't create the path. They did. I mean, I just follow that. I mean, any dummy can do that.

Andy Follows: 55:40

You're very self deprecating Steve, you also committed, you gave the 100%. That was it.

Steve Siebold: 55:46

That's all I really had to do. That's when people would ask me what I you know, when it really started, you know, I started doing better financially as a speaker, I go to national speakers meetings, they'd say, What are you doing? I'd say I follow Bill Gove, and they'll come up. It's got to be you know, you're being too humble. It's got to be more than that. But you know, I'm like, I'm just telling you, I'm following the guide. When I say I'm following. I'm following all the way. 100%? There's no question. I don't question him. Okay. When Bob Proctor called me, because he became my coach in the public market. I didn't question Bob Proctor. Bob said, do this. I did it. And when Larry Wilson called in the corporate market, who was the biggest corporate speaker to this day of all time in the United States, he had billions of dollars in sales. I didn't question him. I said, That's it. I said, that's all and that was, that was really true. It wasn't really, you know, I wasn't being, you know, modest or anything. And but people said, Oh, I had to be more than that. I said, No, you just have to commit to someone who really knows what they're doing, and then follow the yellow brick road. That's all I really did.

Andy Follows: 56:38

Yeah, it did. 100% interesting that you mentioned the corporate market, and I don't did use the retail or consumed. What word did you use for that? Because it seems to me that there are people in the corporate world who won't have heard of Bob Proctor, they won't have heard of Zig Ziglar necessarily. You managed to traverse both. You've got a foot in both camps or you've succeeded in both.

Steve Siebold: 56:59

Yeah, well, I had that. Again, I had the mentorship it's the only way I mean, I have a topic the Mental Toughness topic relates to both the public market we call on the speaking business, but a lot of people probably wouldn't know it. So when someone comes to a seminar or workshop or a programme, they pay their own money. We say, Well, whoever pays the bill defines the market. So somebody like you came to the workshop, like I did. So you paid probably paid for your ticket like I did. And so what we would consider that a public market programme workshop, whereas the corporate market is the corporation pays the bill for the speaker. Bottom line. So Larry Wilson was well known in corporate where a guy like Bob Proctor, nobody knew in corporate, you know, no one knew who he was because he was a public market. Speaker, they get held seminars where Larry Wilson owned a company started a company in the 60s, called Wilson learning who is still to this day, one of the biggest training companies in the world. He doesn't own it anymore. He passed a long time ago, but he sold the company 40 years ago, but it's still one of the biggest trading companies in the world. So Incorporated, I just did a call with Berkshire Hathaway the other day, and I'm semi retired now. And I they follow the Wilson, Larry Wilson programmes still, you know, and he's been gone for years, they sold the 40 years ago. So I had those guys directing me in those markets, because they were built golf students, and they always felt like Bob and Larry both felt like, without Bill, they told me many times without Bill Gove, they wouldn't have the careers they had. So they felt like they were by helping me coach me. They were giving back to Bill. So talk about luck. I get, right. I mean, I'm like a leprechaun at some point. You know, I mean, I got these guys, and they're guiding me in the world class performers. And they have the all the success. And they're just saying, here's exactly what you do step by step. And those two markets are very, very different markets. They are, they are, they have to be treated completely differently. And those guys were, I would say, you know, obviously two of the best that ever did it.

Andy Follows: 58:45

Yeah, they're completely different. And the common denominator is having experts having the best in each of those fields mentor in you, and you actually listening to them and committing to what they tell you. So you'd have been writing? You'd have been writing already writing your material for your workshop, Steve, and your keynotes. When did the first book start coming out? What was the transition there? Or tell me a little bit about that?

Steve Siebold: 59:12

Yeah, I've been writing. That's the one thing I really enjoyed doing. I just entered contests as a little kid between, you know, resting in between training and as in the tennis players to write a lot and it's writing always came easy to me. So I use standard contests, little short story contest when I was a little kid when I was eight, 910 years old. And so I was like to write. So I was working what Larry Wilson had trained me how to go into corporate as I mentioned, so probably four or five years into it, he said it'd be a good time for you to do a book. And I was wanting to write anyway because again, I love writing. And he said you ought to put all this mental toughness stuff in a book. So long story short, I wrote a book called the 177 mental toughness secrets of the world class, which to this day, sold over a million copies over the course of the years. So I've been very fortunate with that. That book has been the foundation of my entire business for the last 25 years, which is just, again, another lucky break. For me, it just happened to hit the right way. And it's in 10 languages or whatever it is. And

Andy Follows: 1:00:05

it's still thorough, though. Steve, you didn't throw it together? It's damn. That's a lot. There's a lot of page by page. There's a lot of content. It's there's a lot of there's references and stuff. Resources. There's, you put a lot into it.

Steve Siebold: 1:00:20

Yeah, yeah, I did, you know, but again, at the same time, I appreciate that, Andy, but it was a lot of work and really did work hard on it. But again, you know, you're standing on the shoulders of giants, your shin, it's an old cliche, I know. But it really is true. All these people in the developed all these, all these world class philosophies and strategies and that type of thing. I piggyback, like every one in personal development, I piggybacked on them put my own spin on it, of course, but the information has been there, it's just a different way to look at it, of course, the old wine in new bottles, as they say. And so, so I was very fortunate that book came out. And then I've written 11 books since then. And we've been had some good fortune with that.

Andy Follows: 1:01:00

Yeah so there's also the fact that you liked you know, we talked about doing things you like doing, we've just learned that you liked writing from an early age, you actually voluntarily entered short story competitions, and how important would stories become, to your professional speaking, success, highly important. So that comes together, as another piece that makes so much sense helps to make so much sense of who you are, and what you've done. You said that 177 secrets that has underpinned your business the whole time, that's in a sold over a million copies. So clearly, although I don't know if you make money out of selling books these days, but is it more, you know, how has that supported you? Is it the brand? Is it the credibility? What would you say about that?

Steve Siebold: 1:01:52

Yeah, it helped a lot with credibility, to have it to Excel, you know, working with so many big companies and stuff. So it's great to have a book. And that's it, Larry thought it would be it'd be great because I already was in seven figures as a speaker consultant, with with these big companies, with the sales teams, and doing turnarounds and that type of thing. So it helps with credibility, even though I was doing a while, but it kind of encapsulated everything I was, I was working within the company. So I was able to take almost all the concepts that I was working with, and put them into one under one umbrella, which is the 177 book. And then also it started to pick up, you know, a few years later, we started to get a lot of television interviews. And, you know, I've probably done you know, three or 4000 interviews over the years about that book over the period of 20 years. So that was that I started getting on a lot of state a lot of shows and around the world. You know, like in London, I've been on the BBC so many times and you know, the in the States, of course, here, mostly in Australia and all over the place. And so that helped the book helped as my point is that without the book, I probably wouldn't have gotten on those shows and whatnot. And that helped me with with raising my fees and companies as a speaker and consultant. And so it really, it really helped me a lot frankly.

Andy Follows: 1:03:00

So how has it evolved since then? I doubt the answer to this is yes. But has it been some kind of smooth constantly upward trajectory of getting bigger speaking fees, writing more books, having more profile finding easier to get business? or have there been some ups and downs along the way?

Steve Siebold: 1:03:16

Oh, yeah, definitely lots of ups and downs. I mean, probably more being my fault than anything else, just because, you know, it is I'm gonna like, at least from my experience, you know, like when I went into the mechanisation business, I realised that you know, no matter how much money at least for me, how was making it was it just was very hollow to me, I think at least again, I just my experience, from having no money or very little money to having more than you need, it just seemed like Well, that's about as easy as it can get. That's about as good as life as you can get. Well, then I realised, well, it's not because you run out of buying things, or at least I did very quickly. And so now I got this fancy car and got a fancy place. And so then what do you do now now you're left with the stuff, which means nothing, except that you don't have to worry about it, which is turns out to me is the most valuable thing as he just taught us to think of us as the only valuable thing or most valuable thing about money, having money in my opinion, just that you don't have to worry about it anymore. Because if you think it's going to sustain you any thing beyond that, I think for most of us have probably wouldn't be true. So point of is going back to it as I just started once I was successful financially, then in the business, I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and some of them were profitable. And some of them were not, you know, I wrote a book called Sex politics and religion, how delusional thinking is destroying America, and I've got it somewhere in my library here. But you know, like three people bought that book and one of them was my mother and she returned it for a full refund, you know, that kind of thing. But I it's my favourite book I've ever written down the 12 books, but it's like I indulge myself like for two years and Dawn told me Dawn's like this book is not going to sell Steve it's not our market, you know, and then just being stubborn I just wanted it wasn't about selling I just wanted to do it because I could afford to do it. And that was good because it probably God knows how much it cost me and fans and all the rest of it. I've offended a lot of people probably but so I probably the times I had downside cycles were most likely my own fault, because I indulge myself in things that were not commercially viable. But I don't honestly any at this point in my life, I don't regret it. I really enjoyed the process. And I was very lucky to be able to get through it. But I don't regret we do it the same way over again, honestly,

Andy Follows: 1:05:17

you do not come across as someone who's steeped in regret, Steve at all. So what I'm wondering then, because there's so many things, I'd like to ask you, one, you've interviewed a lot of people yourself, haven't you? Because you talk a lot about having interviewed many, many hundreds, if not 1000s of successful people? When did you start doing that? You talked about standing on the shoulders of giants. So you've distilled all this information from talking to people? What gave you the idea to do that? And what are some of your takeaways?

Steve Siebold: 1:05:48

Yeah, that was a totally non commercial idea. So the story is, is that you know, I grew up playing tennis scars that we talked about. And a lot of kids that grew up on the National Junior Tennis circuit, like I did are rich kids really rich kids. Now, I was not rich. We were middle class family, from Chicago. But even in Chicago, there were a lot of really rich kids. And I said, I grew up around those kids. I travelled from all over the country in some other countries and that kind of thing. And they had tennis courts in their backyard, or they had mansions and they had, you know, did you go to some of our literally showing up at tournaments and limousines? I mean, it was not that many butts up. And the others probably could have saw, I saw these rich people. And I kept thinking, so why is it that some people have so much money and so much wealth and other people don't? We didn't struggle as a family, or at least I didn't feel that way as a kid. But we certainly weren't rich at any at any level. So I became fascinated with that. So in 1984, my sophomore year of college, I thought, you know, it's like the coaching thing. I thought, why don't I go ask rich people why they got rich. And then maybe that'll guide me in my in college, because I was kind of didn't know why I was in college. I just couldn't figure it out. Except for playing tennis. I played a really good tennis school. And so that was it. And so I started asking people do you know anybody that's like a rich entrepreneur owns a business. And a guy told me I met this kid on campus. He said, My uncle is a self made millionaire. And he lives in in Louisiana. And maybe I could you could interview him. And I said, Oh, that'd be great. And so he got me this interview with this guy. And he was the nicest guy in the world. He told me all these things. And I took all these notes. He said, Well, what are you doing this for? I said, I just want to learn why you're rich. And I'm not bottom line. I mean, I just don't understand why so few people have money, and other people do like you. And I said, Do you have any other friends that I can interview that are rich? And he said, All my friends are rich. And I thought, okay, there's another lesson. He said, That is a lesson. He introduced me to someone who introduced me to someone. And to this day, I've interviewed 13 129 people, these are face to face interviews, every one of them, no phone calls, no zoom. There was no Internet back then, obviously. And a few years ago, the Wall Street Journal wrote that this was the biggest study of Self Made Millionaires ever done. I don't know if that's true or not, but they said it the Wall Street Journal, so I guess I'll accept it. But it's certainly one of them. And and so I just kept doing it. And I kept asking these people, what is it that and they kept referring me to other people that were wealthy entrepreneurs. And so I interviewed now it's been over, over 300 of them are now or were billionaires, and the rest of them are self made. multimillionaires are millionaires, a small business, big business, lots of different backgrounds. But I wrote a book about it in 2010, called how rich people think which did really well. And yeah, so that became another part of my programme, just because I was just curious, but it wasn't supposed to be a commercial venture just ended up it ended up that way.

Andy Follows: 1:08:28

So how rich people think that's going to share some of the what you've learned from these, all of these interviews is distilled into that book.

Steve Siebold: 1:08:35

Exactly.Yeah. So what did they because that's what people I was doing an interview. Matter of fact, it was probably with the Wall Street Journal. And I think about they said, You ought to write a book about this, because I never thought about writing a book about it because I was steeped in the Mental Toughness doing the turnarounds in corporate, you know, corporations. And they said, but I used to talk about it in speeches, because I had all this experience with these one on one, you know, I haven't had no so I know so many rich people. It's ridiculous. I mean, people that really have a lot of money. And so, you know, they said, you really ought to put in a book and so I thought, yeah, okay. Yeah. And I did, and then the book took off and went all over the world. And so a lot of copies. So, but yeah, we do again, another lucky break. Really, frankly, you know, luck has played a pretty strong role in my life. Andy

Andy Follows: 1:09:15

yeah, yeah, there's some like I get it. There's some like, there's also some really good ideas and some good execution, some good discipline. And I'm a big fan of like a big believer that luck is important as well. I'm not discounting the luck, but I'm also recognising the your contribution to the luck happening. I'm really encouraged because I obviously had a perception of you as someone who was clearly very disciplined, very focused on being an entrepreneur would throw you know, really work hard at writing your books, very thorough pieces of work, showing up day after day after day on this journey that you're on. What I'm getting out of this conversation is an additional dimension, because I didn't know you about your history with the business where you left the mechanisation business because you weren't getting what you wanted out of out of it. And what I'm hearing now is, my listeners will have picked up I'm on my own mission is about enabling fulfilling performance. And fulfilling performance is when we get to use as much of our talent, intelligence, creativity and capability as possible. When that grows continuously. And we get a sense of fulfilment from what we're doing. So we're actually at the end of whatever work or activities we've pursued. We feel energised and able to then be a great partner, parent and human being. So it's saying we can have high performance we can achieve the outcomes that we set for ourselves. And we can get a great sense of fulfilment from it that makes us a decent human being. So it sounds to me that you found that not in mechanisation, but in speaking in coaching mental toughness. Is that fair? Would you say you've been experiencing? You know, you are getting a sense of purpose out of what you were doing and finding fulfilment in it as well?

Steve Siebold: 1:11:04

Oh, no question. No question. I think it'd be really difficult to dedicate yourself to something that if you didn't get the fulfilment because the money is, you know, the great, I think money is great in the beginning, because you think okay, now I don't have to worry so much about, you know, where my next meal is coming from. But, you know, in terms of the Sustainable work, I mean, I think if it's not fulfilling, forget it, the money is never going to make the difference for you. I don't think anyway, it didn't for me. So yeah, the fulfilment has been tremendous.

Andy Follows: 1:11:31

And I see you, as someone who's a fan of critical thinking, you write and talk about critical thinking, we're in a time where we seem to be getting more and more polarised, we get exposed to information that is, comes from anywhere doesn't have to be fact checked. There's a lot of emotion in the conversation in the discourse between humans. Is there something you'd like to see? Or do you have any advice or thoughts on how we could actually help ourselves a little bit going forward as things get even more complex?

Steve Siebold: 1:12:03

Yeah, I've got like, probably a pretty the world I'm very concerned about, you know, the state of discourse and the sex politics, religion book, I kind of put myself out there because that was the book I promised myself I would write when I could afford to lose fans. You know, I really did sounds twisted. I know. And I did. Dawn reminds me quite a bit, you know, you're very successful losing 1000s and 1000s of fans and followers, you know, because I started espousing opinions. And it turns out that my fan base didn't care about what I thought about these things, or didn't like what I had to say. But you know, like, right now, in the States, I'm getting in a lot of trouble for talking about Trump. Because, you know, we're going into our election year or now we're in our election year. I've known Trump for 25 years. Personally, he was a client of mine for 15 of ours for 15 years. I lived six miles from his house from Mar a Lago, you know, where he lives in Palm Beach. And so I know I have a lot of stories, a lot of back stories about Trump and so there's a lot of people that you know, it's pretty crazy. And I bring this up, because I don't think it's just a US problem. I think it's a problem and international problem because people don't realise how dangerous this guy is. I don't think that a lot of the people in the United States don't realise how dangerous I I've known this guy for years. I know this guy when there's no microphones around he is way worse than people think he could literally destroy democracy around the world so I'm saying this in the press not a tonne, but Dawn has like It's like got duct tape over my mouth at night stop talking about this now you're killing our fan base whatever but I you know I'm at the point where it's not that I don't care but I think if you have any voice whatsoever not that I'm some you know giant figure or anything like that. But if you have any voice I think whatsoever even if you have a social media account with six followers, I think now is the time if you believe in these things to stand up because this is not going to end well if it goes the wrong way for democracy you know, not politics but so point is not to go too far into that but but that's kind of where I'm in trouble now with a lot of people I'm getting hate mail already. I'll have death threats by the end of the year probably I'm used to that when I speak out about some of these things. But you know, at some point it's not it's not about being popular to me it's about saying if there's any if you have any voice again, whatsoever, big smaller in between, I think if you believe in something like that's this dangerous, people don't realise the danger I think we're in and again, I think it reverberates around the world because the US is a is it has a big presence of rich countries, a lot of people etc, etc. There's a lot of influence on democracy here. And this guy is out to destroy, he's out to just gratify his own ego. He lives in a very, he has an inferiority complex and I almost could not explain to you as someone who is studied psychology for 40 years. I've known a lot of people inferiority complexes but never won that big. And this is one on one experience I have with him. This is not something I read in a magazine or saw on TV. You know, he is a very, very dangerous person and so so I'm speaking out about that and getting in trouble for that now Andy, so I have a new thing to get in trouble about not If that is what it is,

Andy Follows: 1:15:03

I can see Dawn shaking her head. Oh, yeah. Yeah, thanks for speaking out about that. What one thing could we do with all your knowledge about critical thinking that could just slow this down or, you know, because we know people get very wedded to their ideas, it becomes, you know, their identity is tied up in whatever political beliefs they have. Unfortunately, it's becoming more and more people identify with their politics personally. So how you're not expecting to be able to change people's opinion. Overnight, the more you argue against things, the more entrenched their beliefs become. So how could you call a timeout and say that do this one thing before you go deeper into your beliefs? Is there is this tip that you could recommend?

Steve Siebold: 1:15:52

Yeah, I think employ critical thinking. I mean, I think it goes into, you know, like the political situation, it goes into anything, it goes into global warming, I think it goes in anything. That's, that's really why I wrote that book, just to say, I'm not saying something's right or wrong. I mean, I'm not smarter than anybody else. But let's look at evidence. Let's look at the data. Let's look at proof. You know, if you're gonna say there's an afterlife, then prove to me someone's gone in the afterlife and come back and explain it to me, you know, and that's fine. If you want to believe in something that has no proof. But when it affects millions and millions of people, there should be some proof before making decisions. So I would just ask people to look at the evidence. You know, if you're gonna say something happened, like here, with the election being stolen, well, then prove it. Well, obviously couldn't prove it, he made it up. That's what Trump does. So know if it's stolen, then prove? Well, he tried to prove it. Well, obviously. I mean, I knew he'd made it up before. I mean, that was he's so easy to figure out. It's ridiculous. But a lot of people don't see it that way, because they don't know him. And they don't know he does things like that. I don't know how they don't know by now, but they don't. So look at proof, I would say in anything, just look at evidence and take the emotion out, which is what critical thinking is it's looking at greater criteria devoid of emotion. So you take your emotion out, you take your feelings out, and you just say, Where's the evidence to support this particular thesis or idea, whatever it is. And if you do that, you've got a whole different world. Unfortunately, I think most people live in an emotional state of mind, and they go on feelings and and that's got us in this place that we're in in the world, which is a very, very dangerous, I think it's a very dangerous place to hold the whole worlds. And I think the whole world is on fire. And because there are, most people operate out of emotion instead of logic. And it's, it's it's difficult to get them to do that.

Andy Follows: 1:17:34

You said that 13 years ago, that humans make decisions based on emotions. And I made a note of that as well at the time. So it's incredible. I think you're absolutely right, you make it sound pretty simple. I think it is pretty simple when you put it like that. But you also explained that the reality is that a lot of people aren't in a position to exercise that kind of judgement, that kind of critical thinking. Last couple of years, you set up the Professional Development Association and you change your LinkedIn strapline now says reducing human suffering through personal development. And to me following your career from outside, it seemed like there was a little bit of a shift towards really giving back. And if that happened to you, I saw you initially as a very focus, we're going to build businesses, we're entrepreneurs, we're going to be very successful speakers, we can train other speakers going to write these best selling books. And then in the last couple of years, I've noticed what I thought was a bit of a shift towards, okay, we really need to do as much good as we possibly can. Is that have I picked up right on that? Is that how it's been for you?

Steve Siebold: 1:18:44

Absolutely. I mean, you know, just with all the luck, you know, we've experienced and had business and you know, in life and all that they're, you know, I've taken a look at the world, I guess, like everybody else does at some point in their life, you know, almost 60 years old, and you start looking at things and saying, geez, I've been so fortunate, I've been so lucky. I've had such great mentors, I've had all these things, and in a world that's, you know, struggling and suffering, I mean, it's time to give back whatever we can possibly do. Well, I don't have all the money in the world or anything like that, like some billionaire, anything like that. But I do know something about the personal development industry, because that's the industry you've been a part of for so long, and had a lot of luck with again, and what if we could we could band all these hundreds of millions of people effectively together around the world? That's the big goal and saying, let's take personal development called personal development 2.0 1.0 was focused on us to get us help us become successful all of us and it's collectively and then 2.0 is let's give it back let's let's help other people, let's create gestures, let's create programmes to help people that are really suffering to no fault of their own. They were just born at the wrong time born in the wrong country born without resources, they're living under a dictatorship, you know, whatever the situation and there's no end to the suffering that goes on obviously, any as you know, you In the world, and I'm not saying we can necessarily change the whole world, but we can certainly do whatever we can. And I want to spend the rest of my life, you know, giving back as much as we can banding this this group of as monstrous group of people that we call personal development, you know, together, and people that believe in things like this and say, let's give back on the grandest of scales that we possibly can, and see if we can make a difference and helps alleviate some of the suffering that goes on all over the world.

Andy Follows: 1:20:25

So if people want to follow this, if they want to get involved, it's IPDAR dot O R G .org. Is that?

Steve Siebold: 1:20:32

Yes, yeah, it's international Personal Development Association, and revolutionise er, so it's IP dar.org, and then go on the site and join, it's all for free. We're funding everything financially. And this is all free. There's no, there's no cost anybody and we're putting initiatives together, we're building an app right now. And we're gonna start doing media all over the world, television, radio, print all that media Internet, and start to promote this idea that, hey, it's time for those of us that have been fortunate enough to have all these, you know, just had good fortune to give back to so many people that that had just had bad breaks no fault of their own, you know, just just a tough existence, what can we do to help those people? And then of course, as a result, we're going as the givers, we're gonna, all of us are going to be, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna get that feeling of giving back. So it's not completely altruistic in that sense. But that's, that's the idea. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 1:21:24

Excellent. I applaud that. So I'm picking up a few common thoughts around the conversation that we've had, you've interviewed so many people, you've interviewed many more people than I have, you have been someone who I feel I was lucky to have met. It was by good fortune that Mary Barrett said, Andy, you need to go and do the Bill Gove speech workshop. And that's how I had the good fortune to meet you, and Dawn, and really, it was a revelatory experience. For me, it was very impactful. I really appreciate it. So you've been a, you know, a celebrity in my in my mind, and I'm absolutely proud to have you joined me. What have I not asked you, Steve? I'm not sure how, you know, I'm sure I've asked you things that you've answered 1000s of times, and it's maybe not been super exciting. So is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have done? that you think would have unlocked something original for you?

Steve Siebold: 1:22:23

No, I think you're a great interviewer. Andy a great interviewer, for sure, for sure. It's not the it's not the easiest thing to do. You're very thorough, but I think you know, the, the one message that and I, I'm guessing you would probably agree with this as for everyone's own mental health, well being, you know, psychological satisfaction and fulfilment, consider how you can give back to other people, it doesn't have to be money, of course, because most of us don't have, you know, a tonne of money. But we can give back in other ways where it's helping someone carry their groceries out to a car that's overwhelmed, they got two kids, you know, they're dragging along into the car, something like that, or whatever it is, you know, whatever, in any in every small way, big way, whatever you can possibly do, consider how you can give back to other people and see how it makes you feel. Because I think that that would that could literally change the collective consciousness of the world, both for the giver and the receiver. And that's kind of where I want to spend the rest of my life. I said, and so I just want people to consider that. Because even in the middle, as you said, of that, you know, grinding time over just building businesses and making money and trying to do turnarounds and big companies and employing people all over the world and all that kind of stuff and all that fun. So it was all fun. But you know, at some point, it's I think it's time to turn our focus as opposed to just on ourselves, which I did for a long time. It's focused on our success, and then turn to other people and say, Hey, let's see if we can give some of this back. Because certainly, without there being born in the right place at the right time with the right connections with the right mentorship. This doesn't happen. I mean, come on. I'm just, uh, you know, I just a lot of it was just pure luck of the draw. So okay, great. I think we're because of that we're, you know, I don't want to say you have to do it. But I mean, the almost, I almost feel like, you know, it's just something we have to give back. And we've been so fortunate as you have and I have and other people have what listen to this. We just we just something we have to do. And then we get the benefit, of course of of the feeling what that comes with giving to people that that need the help.

Andy Follows: 1:24:25

Wonderful, great passage to end with. I think Steve safe. Thank you again, so much for joining me. It's been an absolute highlight of my CAREER-VIEW MIRROR career so far, to have someone who I admire and who I learned a lot from joining me for this conversation. I also would say that when you were grinding away and doing the work, you were providing value, and you weren't giving back to the people I came away from my experience feeling that I had really taken a lot away from it. I didn't feel I'd been sold something I felt I'd been really given something if you like In return so yeah incredible to have a career where you've done that you've added so much value to people through your work and through your speaking and through your books and if people want to see you speak you have a great little clip of you speaking on on the Steve Siebold dotnet site so people can see you in action and we'll put a link to that as well in the in the show notes just so people can see what you were looking like on stage in front of these big huge sales teams and with their specially with the antlers as I'll leave as a little teaser the antlers and the red nose would be What was he talking about? Have a look go on their listeners and have a have a look at Steve talking about Wall Street and antlers and red noses. So anyway, thank you so much for joining me it's been an absolute pleasure to reconnect.

Steve Siebold: 1:25:48

I appreciate it. And as you know I'm big fan of yours and your show and appreciate the invitation the opportunity to talk.

Andy Follows: 1:25:58

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience where you find yourself right now and your personal goals. You'll have your own takeaways from Steve's story. Some elements that stood out for me were the significant role that tennis played in his life as a player from the age of six to 22. And then as a coach, and how much he was shaped by the discipline and commitment required to be an elite athlete and the relationship he had with coaches and mentors. I loved hearing how he liked to write stories when he was younger, knowing what a big part storytelling has played in his career as a speaker and writer over time realising that no matter how hard he tried, Andre Agassi had something additional that he would not be able to compete with. Reflecting on his own performance and noticing that some days he lacked mental toughness and focus, recognising that if he could solve that for others there'd be value in that having the curiosity to begin interviewing rich people whilst at university and over the following 40 years and that turning into what the Wall Street Journal describes as the largest study of its kind, learning from his early success in the mechanisation business that money wasn't enough, and how important it is to find the right thing for you. If you're going to be able to focus and commit consistently to whatever it is, how a suggestion from an almost stranger to get into speaking same often a life changing path and how lucky he was to not only find out about a meet Bill Gove, but having become his mentor and business partner, and then his early interest in writing being allowed to flourish not only as a professional speaker, but as the author of 12 books. Finally, how like many successful people he and his wife and business partner Dawn are intent on giving back and giving others a hand up, not least through the International Personal Development Association. I'm proud to have shared Steve's experiences and learnings with you. If you'd like to connect with Steve, we'll put his contact details in the show notes to this episode, along with links to the international Personal Development Association, and one or two other links that are relevant to Steve's story. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Steve for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the Career-view Mirror team without whom we would not be able to share our guests' life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening