Adam Harley: Bringing his broad commercial automotive experience to a fresh challenge, growing a leasing business and empowering his people.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Adam Harley.

Adam is Sales Director for the Leasing division of Santander Consumer UK. He joined to help the business grow market share, volume and capability in the leasing sector.  Santander is the 8th largest leasing company in the UK and has bold aspirations.

Prior to joining Santander, Adam spent 18 years with BMW Group where he was fortunate to work in all three of the UK sales operations - Alphabet, BMW UK and BMW Financial Services.

He's very much a family man. Work has to balance with home life and he needs more than a little bit of fun while he's at work.   

In our conversation we talk about the influence of his older brother and how that led to his first role in real estate. Adam shares how he later identified a desire to move into a larger corporate environment, ideally in automotive. He couldn't just walk directly into that world but he worked out some steps he could take to make that happen.

He also reminded me how it was a call from me almost 20 years ago that led to him enjoying a successful 18 year career at BMW. Finally we talk about how in spite of BMW being such a great company he eventually felt the need to take on a fresh challenge and how he set about finding and securing that.

I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Connect with Adam on LinkedIn: Adam Harley

Thank you to our sponsors:
ASKE Consulting
Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

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Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

Episode Directory on Instagram @careerviewmirror 

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Episode recorded on 6 February, 2024.

Transcript

Adam Harley: 0:00

Dealer principals and franchise directors are saying, well hang on, you want me to recruit a local business salesperson that might do 100 cars in a good year, but it might take three or four months to get the first order. Why would I do that? Where's the payback?

Aquilae Academy: 0:16

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy Follows: 0:48

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously join me to create these episodes, so that we can celebrate their careers, listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Adam Harley. Adam’s Sales Director for the leasing division of Santander Consumer UK. He joined to help the business grow market share volume and capability in the leasing sector. Santander is the eighth largest leasing company in the UK and has bold aspirations. Prior to joining Santander, Adam spent 18 years with BMW Group where he was fortunate to work in all three of the UK sales operations, Alphabet, BMW, UK and BMW Financial Services. He's very much a family man work has to balance with home life, and he needs more than a little bit of fun while he's at work. In our conversation, we talked about the influence of his older brother and how that led to his first role in real estate. Adam shares how he later identified a desire to move into a larger corporate environment, ideally in automotive. He couldn't just walk directly into that world, but he worked out some steps he could take to make that happen. He also reminded me how it was a call from me almost 20 years ago, that led to him enjoying a successful 18 year career at BMW. Finally we talk about how in spite of BMW being such a great company, he eventually felt the need to take on a fresh challenge and how he set about finding and securing that. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time. Hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted advisor to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. Contact me if you'd like to know more. Hello Adam, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Adam Harley: 2:44

Hi, Andy. Great to be here. Yeah, I'm at home in Wiltshire in southwest England.

Andy Follows: 2:52

Lovely and whereabouts we that's I always start where were you born? Tell us about that. And where did you grow up?

Adam Harley: 2:58

Well, as my wife reminds me, often, I actually haven't lived more than about 50 miles from where I was born. So I was born in Chippenham, which is literally 10 miles away from where I'm sitting now. And I've never really moved very far from there.

Andy Follows: 3:14

Right So let's talk a bit if we may, about your childhood of your brothers and sisters.

Adam Harley: 3:20

Yes, yeah. I have a younger sister. She's two and a half years younger, and a brother who's five years older than me.

Andy Follows: 3:28

Okay, so you were the middle kid. So your brother had done some of the hard yards getting your parents up to speed before?

Adam Harley: 3:35

Yes, yeah, absolutely. made life a little bit easier for me. My sister, of course, got all the all the advantages, and I played the middle card child a lot, right?

Andy Follows: 3:46

I'm not sure how that might have shown up, but we'll find out if it has made any difference to you as we go forward. And what did you see what sort of jobs did you see people doing? What were your mum and dad doing when you were growing up?

Adam Harley: 3:58

It was quite interesting, really. My father was an electrical engineer. And when I was young as income sub 10 primary school age, he was often out of the country working on projects abroad, he would be in Nigeria quite a lot which he always came back with these mad tales of just chaos and disorganisation everywhere having to fight for plane seats because they overbooked it and all of these things going on. We had some great visitors from Nigeria, come and stay at the house. And he went through a series, a series of jobs, some good some not so good board and ran a couple of his own businesses. But I think my abiding memory of my father's career has, he always worked really hard to make sure we had a nice place to live and food on the table and that was quite often quite hard for him. I think he didn't have in the in the latter stages of his career. It was more challenging for him than when I was a young kid. But I think he had a good job, maybe didn't make the best career move. And then always sort of felt like he was sort of battling to, to get back to where he wanted to be. So that's really interesting, quite interesting to observe that as I was growing up, actually,

Andy Follows: 5:24

yeah, I'm fascinated by the concept of trajectories. And it sounds like he was on a certain trajectory early in his career. And then he made a decision that ended up with hindsight making things more challenging for him. Yeah, latterly. And he had that sense of wanting to playing catch up. If you'd like to try and get get back.

Adam Harley: 5:49

Yes. Yeah, I think so. You know, my mother was a teacher. And she, I think, when I was growing up, she was sort of part time, and then gave up and did a few other bits. And they they then retired and went off to France for 12 years. So yeah, so so he was, you know, so then my father did did many things, things that he had no idea about, but actually did, too. Well. Yes. So quite quite a varied and colourful career moving. And

Andy Follows: 6:19

let's talk about school, Adam, if we can, what would your How would your teachers how would your teachers have described you? Here?

Adam Harley: 6:26

Well, they often did describe me as I think lively, chatty, and cliche, could try harder. And that you could kind of copy and paste that for probably a lot of my school reports, right the way through secondary school.

Andy Follows: 6:43

And with hindsight, do you acknowledge that?

Adam Harley: 6:46

Oh, yeah, honestly, I was an I think probably my worst period was sixth form, where I just determined that to be a place where I'd have fun and hang out with my mates and drive my car into school and do stupid things in my car and a car park leading to being asked to come back two days later, and that sort of thing. But yeah, I should have applied myself more at school, I think is how I probably summarise it.

Andy Follows: 7:13

So did you start to pick up things that you were interested in at school subject wise, or get a sense of the direction you wanted to go into?

Adam Harley: 7:23

I always loved cars, I was always what you now describe as petrol head. So I always, you know, I hadn't from being a young kid that I wanted to be a car designer. But I didn't have the technical skills that became evident for that. But I always loved cars. So in my mind, I always thought, I'd love to do something with cars. But I mentioned my brother is five years older than me, he had gone into a state agency. And I looked to him and he had his company car, still terribly exciting at the time. And I thought, You know what, I wouldn't mind a slice of that. Being five years old, you know, I have this I've looked at my brother and think he's doing so well. I could aspire to be like him. And actually remember this quite well. And it was his brother's wedding. And his the MD, of the state agency that he worked for was there. And this guy said to me at the reception, no doubt after too many glasses of champagne. Well, if you ever want a job, just give me a ring and come and join the company. So 16 year old me at the time thinking, wow, that's fantastic. I think I'll do that. Because my brother has XR three, I think at the time and I'm thinking I'd like a slice of that. And that probably subconsciously did for me in terms of my focus towards a levels and any aspirations that if I'm honest, my parents had of me going to university. And I thought I'm just going follow my brother's footsteps, which I did. Okay, so that's where I went from school.

Andy Follows: 8:59

But how old were you then? 18? You've done your A levels?

Adam Harley: 9:03

Well, actually, Andy, I was 17 Because believe it or not having just told you when I told you, I went up to secondary school a year early. My birthday is late September. So I was a youngest kid in secondary school. You know what I wasn't some sort of genius or anything like that. But so I think I got the job. When I was 17. I think the two weeks working at this estate agents at 17. And love it as a trainee negotiator on 4000 pounds basic salary, I remember at the time, they would give you a suit loan interest free. So you can actually get yourself a nice double breasted Prince of Wales check suits, because that was absolutely the thing to be wearing. And that was the that was the first start. I suppose my career in sales really taught me a lot, I'd say.

Andy Follows: 9:53

Yeah, so how long did you do that for?

Adam Harley: 9:55

You late 80s until 1994 or, okay. It was quite a tough time, the late 80s, the town I was working with in South wheelchair. You know, it wasn't the smartest of towns, I won't say the name for fear of offending anyone. But there was an awful lot of repossession going on at the time. So actually, it was there were some quite tragic circumstances which I perhaps didn't realise were quite as tragic, as I do now reflecting, of having to go in and be there with Bayless to take possession. But I'll tell you what, Andy, it was a great job for learning, resilience and tenacity. You know, I would sit there till eight o'clock at night, multiple nights a week, phoning people from lists of names that had perhaps said they might be interested in moving, trying to get them to view scruffy, old repossessed houses, in a high interest rate economy. And it was it was pretty hard going. But you just had to be relentless. And that tenacity paid off.

Andy Follows: 11:05

Yeah, I was going to ask you what Had you taken away? Because there's one thing looking at your brother who's five years old, and he's got a nice suit and a nice car, and he seems to be doing well. And then you actually arrive, and you've got to do the work. And so I was wondering what was the reality like compared with your 16 year old vision of what this was going to be like?

Adam Harley: 11:25

Reality was tough. You know, I think I think in my mind, I'd be going to sort of country estates, and doing viewings, and which I did eventually, sort of move on to dealing with nicer houses and nicer areas. But the reality was, you know, showing people around lots of lots of very nice houses, fighting for sales, fighting to get people and fighting to get people a mortgage. And lots of time spent on the phone keeping sales together. It was a it was a cutthroat environment. And if you didn't do your numbers, you didn't last, I had colleagues that would come and go, you know, I managed to kind of stick it out. I did have a really great manager, a guy called James Benjamin, not aware he is now. But he was always he had this sort of quite a language approach to things. But underneath that, he was a really shrewd operator. And again, I probably didn't realise as much at the time, but he schooled me in the ways of starting to you know how to build relationships with people. He was very good at doing that. And I think I learned a lot about building some rapport and relationship with people.

Andy Follows: 12:32

I can see how that would really have helped you in your career. And also the fact that you had sat at your desk till eight o'clock at night making those calls and yeah, striving to find opportunities. So what brought that to an end? And what did you go and do next?

Adam Harley: 12:48

Well, I you know, I really enjoyed it. But I, I think I wanted a slice of corporate life. So Well, I live in in Swindon, and you'll recognise it from old leasing days, but years ago, and this is mid 90s Phh, who's now our Val had a corporate relocation business. And nobody really knew that there's everyone up H H for fuel cards and vehicle management services. But there was a small bit on the side that dealt with moving people around the world all locally. So I got myself a job as a salesperson dealing with corporate relocation services. So it was a it was a bit of a neat segue from a state agency because it was sitting with houses and moving people around. And it got me into that corporate environment. But I had half an hour at that point thinking Hang on Trojan horse, I couldn't get into this company, maybe do a year or two, build up some currency, and then move into the part of the business that I'm really interested in, which is vehicle management, then everything to do with cars.

Andy Follows: 13:55

Okay. Do you remember what it was that made you think I want to get into corporate?

Adam Harley: 14:00

Yeah, if I think back I think it was it felt very provincial, which was, I was, you know, talked earlier about, I was born in chippenham, a wheelchair. I live in Barnsbury which is 10 miles away. I was working in little market towns around Wiltshire and I think I thought will corporate okay the officers in Swindon, but it might just expose me to a slightly different world. Everything is very familiar doing what I was doing. So

Andy Follows: 14:29

the bright lights of Swindon Is that Is that what we're talking about

Adam Harley: 14:33

bright lights of windmill Hill Business Park was calling. I didn't even have to go on the motorway to get there. And it was seen as a whole new world

Andy Follows: 14:41

It’s the hero's journey, the hero's journey. Yep. You have to leave your village. Go on a quest. Like

Adam Harley: 14:48

Yes. It was exactly that. And I think I thought I'd just like to go and see what this is about. Let me see what it's like working for a bit. In a big company where everyone works in the same place,

Andy Follows: 15:02

yeah, no, that's great. And so did you have your plan worked out that you spent a little bit of time on the relocation piece? And then got to move into into Phh? Their vehicle side?

Adam Harley: 15:13

Yes. Yeah, the relocation bit was quite good, fine. I worked with a couple of who I thought we're pretty ancient, but we're probably only in their early 40s, at the time, upon a grizzled old salespeople who were nice guys, and we had a, we had a really nice little team going on there. But then I, you know, I saw this opportunity, there's an account manager role on the on the fleet side. And that was a different, that was a differently that was suddenly loads of people everywhere. There was a sales manager there who, if you pictured sales manager, this person would be exactly that loud, huge pinstripe suit, noisy, a little brash, but I loved it. And I thrived in that environment, being in that environment with all the cars around and all of this and sales meetings and targets and numbers on the board and commission. And I thought, yeah, this is definitely where I'm born to be. That's how I felt at the time.

Andy Follows: 16:14

Excellent. And you'd stepped is what I love about these conversations is, so you've described the situation that you were in there, you'd already had years of sales targets and years of being in that environment and having to hit numbers. So that wasn't daunting for you. That was, as you say, this is where I'm meant to be. Exactly. So tell us about the progression through there.

Adam Harley: 16:39

So I was there. So it must have been, I think, 1996, something like that, when I moved into the fleet side. And I moved into a sort of an SME account management thinks in relatively junior role at the time. But I think relatively quickly, some got the rose tinted spectacles on, I moved into large fleets, and was dealing with some big fleet customers, and, you know, real exposure to proper traditional fleet managers. And I really, really enjoyed that side of things. And I probably did that for, you know, another another two or three years. And then I think probably I got the break that set me on the path that I've probably been on since because I got a job internally for a part of the business that had been acquired by Phh. It was called key fleets. And it was a business that was based up in the Midlands in balsall common, and it was really a sort of an SME Contract Hire operation, which had regional offices, mostly Midlands and North based. And we effectively set up what was going to be the Southern Regional Office, and I became the manager of that Southern Regional Office makes me sound like something from the office. I wasn't the assistant to the within that I had salespeople and some field salespeople, I had internal salespeople, a couple of admin people. And that felt like as actual I was running my own sales division, reporting into great guy, Vincent Sinclair, who you may well know AVI is very much in in the industry. He was a good mentor to me, actually, because that was a business that was really entrepreneurial, within a large corporate organisation. And we carried on running it that way for as long as we were able to

Andy Follows: 18:35

That is such a good opportunity if you get into something that small, but it's got the support of something big, but it's small and has some autonomy and can still be agile and entrepreneurial that and you had your own team, your own business division there to own and to develop, it was all on me. It sounds like a really good Yeah, sounds like a really good opportunity.

Adam Harley: 18:58

It was it was really good. There's nowhere to hide. But I have to say I thrived on that. And it was where I started to learn what sort of leader I would be. And and if I'm honest, I didn't, I didn't set out thinking this is the type of leader I want to be as really, really honest, it just sort of started to happen. And it took me a little while to understand what my, what my style was, and what my values were. But they became evident over that time. And I've reflected on this quite a lot since when I'd be much more conscious of my my leadership style. But that's where the seeds really started to grow in that role.

Andy Follows: 19:43

This may or may not work, but what I'd like to do is because you've recently in the last 12 months or so take in a new role a new business which we will come to in due course so I don't really want to talk sure I don't really want to get there yet and spoil that bit. But as a way of asking The question, what would the people you've met? who you've become responsible for leading in the last 12? Months? How would you like them to describe your leadership style?

Adam Harley: 20:12

Yeah, so that's, that's a really good question. How I'd like them to describe it is, I believe very firmly in empowerment. I give people the environment, I can't be in the detail. And if there's any of my old BMW team listening to this, there'll be laughing. Absolutely. But I'm not detail oriented, particularly my ice, my job is create the environment, empower the team, and then allow them to develop themselves to be successful to find their ways, but I will coach and try and give them some tools, in a little bit of inspiration to help them to get there. So I think my my new team at Santander, I hope that they would say, Adam has come in, and has started to create the environments that we can be successful in, and where I have a little bit more empowerment, to make things happen, and start to create and shape the future.

Andy Follows: 21:20

Excellent. And I hope some of them will listen to this as a way to find out more about their boss, if you like. And if they don't feel that they can come and talk to you.

Adam Harley: 21:30

Yes, absolutely. Yes, yeah.

Andy Follows: 21:33

So let's go back to where we were. So you were running this business? Now? What what happened? And where did that go?

Adam Harley: 21:40

Well, this is where you come into my career, Andy, because at that point, that's when I moved to Alphabet. So yes, you know, you had very much had a hand in the direction of my career because I, I then I can't remember in my mind, I like to think that I got a call about the job at Alphabet. I don't think I don't remember actually applying for one. But I keep it in my favour. But either way, I remember actually going going for a job at Alphabet for a sales manager role. I didn't get that job. But I remember you phoned me a little while after, and said, Look, we liked you. And we'd like you to come and do this job, which was leading another team, and that I'm not sure if you remember this, but you called me up after I think I'd been interviewed. And I thought about I thought yeah, I'll come and join you.

Andy Follows: 22:36

Oh, wow. No, I don't know. It's interesting, because I'd

Adam Harley: 22:37

Do you remember? forgotten that detail. And I was reflecting on the head of this conversation. And one thought I had was, it was quite a threat to me when you arrived. For a while I was the only manager. That's right. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 22:55

And then the team expanded. And all of a sudden, I had other managers coming in. And so one of my observations, reflections about that time was I probably did feel quite threatened to have the likes of you and others coming in. And I'm delighted to hear that I was involved in actually phoning you and yeah, you know, asking you to come and join us because that makes me feel better about the whole situation. So

Adam Harley: 23:25

or you thought that actually I wasn't much, of a threat and you'd encourage me to join

Andy Follows: 23:32

If I was that Machiavellian, but I dont think I am.

Adam Harley: 23:37

Either way, I joined.

Andy Follows: 23:41

Okay, so that's how you got Yeah, good. Love it. Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in Executive Search, Resourcing Solutions and Talent Management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I’ve known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client-side experience which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was in 2004 when he helped me hire Regional Managers for my leasing sales team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy and identify and bring on board suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long-term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a 2-year performance guarantee which means they have‘skin in the game’ when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew and the team at hello@askeconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.askeconsulting.co.uk . ASKE is spelt A S K E You’ll find these contact details in the shownotes for this episode.

Adam Harley: 25:38

So that that was the start of an 18 year stretch Ok, let’s get back to our episode. at BMW Group. And I consider myself you know, a leasing person through and through by that point I'd done seven or eight years at PHH Arval as they became. And Alphabet was an opportunity to really shape the business you'll remember this yourself. It was a growing business. It was almost the naughty child or naughty sibling of BMW UK. And it was it felt entrepreneurial. I really think that you know you Richard Schooling was a was a great guy leading that business. And I remember joining that. And it was hard work, but it was an awful lot of fun. Yeah. And that was another thing that I insist on is actually having fun. Wherever I'm working if I possibly can extract fun whilst working hard, doing a good job. And we have plenty of that at Alphabet didn't we?

Andy Follows: 26:44

We did and I think the transferable piece out of it is if you can find yourself in a situation where you are, as I mentioned just earlier, as you said, a small organisation that's got some good backing around it, but has some autonomy. And you're building something and you've got empowerment, that's what we had. And that can be the best fun. You have in a corporate I think, you know, the uncertainty is dialled down by the backing you've got. But the there's still the uncertainty of yeah, we've got to make this work. And we have to work hard to do it. Yeah, yeah.

Adam Harley: 27:20

So I'm gonna being there. It was a kind of the SME team. And it was leading that team growing and leading that team. And it was some really kind of young, inexperienced guys that were the internal sales team. And I enjoyed seeing those guys develop, and go from people on the phone to people out in the field knocking on doors, I really, I really enjoyed that. And I then moved into working closer with the sales company with BMW UK, and developing the alphabet proposition that supported the sale of BMWs, and minis into local businesses, BMW corporate finance, and that, you know, my love of cars. I love that because I was getting closer and closer to the car sales company. And let's face it, BMW is a very cool brand to get close to if you're into your cars. And yeah, so I did, I think that's my second job at alphabet, working with them. And then I actually jumped into the sales company to run that programme from the sales company side. And that was a very, very different animal to get into deadly into an OEM national sales company very different than being in the sort of naughty, the naughty sibling. But that was, again, another another set of learnings. Exposure to the dealer network, which I really enjoyed. Working with dealers is just great fun. And when we put some great programmes together and trying to persuade retail oriented auto dealers, to recruit people dedicated to the pursuit of knocking on doors locally, was a pretty tough sale Actually, both internally and externally. Dealers are generally used to getting quick sales rather than corporate with much longer lead times. Took a while. But that was a ultimately a really satisfying career choice to grow something from nothing, that she did a couple of 100 cars, I think when I left that job, we were doing eight or 10,000 BMWs and a couple of 1000 minis a year through that channel. So it's pretty exciting for me.

Andy Follows: 29:32

And there's a couple of things that I'd like to just go back to your pick up on. So one is that sales lead time. So depending on where you are in your career and deciding what direction to go in recognising that okay, there are certain jobs where you get the sale the same day, potentially or in the next few days. And there are some where it can take two or three years to get the tail and you have to kind of decide what sort of a person are you they don't necessarily appeal to the same type of vendor vitual No, that's true. And the other is this understanding that in your the field that you're in, there are going to be different you used the word stakeholders before, and how helpful it is when you're on your journey to get exposure and experience working with different ones. So you were working with the leasing company, but you were also then working with the manufacturer, the OEM, you were working with the dealer network, and these are all the players in the ecosystem that you're in. And if you can move around, and get good experience with them, that's gonna stand you in good stead in the long run. And sometimes it's good idea to do what one of my guests called an investment move where you move sideways at the same level. Or sometimes even people take a step down just because they know it's going to get them another it's going to open up another part of the ecosystem to them. So

Adam Harley: 30:52

That’s a that's a good point, Andy, and I might come back to that as we go through because that's that there's a learning from that and a lesson to myself that I took from that sort of sideways move piece, but we'll come back to that. But yes, your your comments on stakeholders, that was so true for that job for BMW UK, I was having to engage people in BMW UK about the merits of corporates. And actually it was slow growth, small volumes, compared to big fleet and retail dealer principles. And franchise directors are saying, well, hang on, you want me to recruit a local business salesperson that might do 100 cars in a good year. But it might take three or four months to get the first order? Why would I do that? Where's the payback? So I spend an awful lot of time on petrol visiting people and going through my trusty slide deck about how you earn, it's not just the money you'd make selling the car, but these cars are local, or the after sales income, and had all these great stats about actually, it wasn't just worth this, it was worth this plus that plus that plus that. And retention, you keep the customer, they'll refer you all of this stuff. And the message did get through. And you know, and we tweaked the things that we ran some great incentives, which took me all over the world, which is awesome. So that was a really good learning opportunity for me an ounce or stakeholder management piece, how to get the right people on board, and the impact that can have on your success, the success of your part of the business, there was critical and I'll tell you the other thing I learned in that time, and a guy that I worked for, is being in total command of your numbers, knowing where you are at any point. And knowing what you're doing what you're going to do in that month in that quarter. And leaving no room for ambiguity. And that that was this guy was absolutely, really super focused, as you might be know, he was kind of head of the corporate team. And that also made me just be at the top of my game in terms of right, this is what I'm going to do. There were others that were perhaps not quite so sharp. And I thought I don't want to be I don't want to be that person that doesn't know quite where they're going to be. Or is well, I might do this. If it depends on this that and the other.

Andy Follows: 33:21

I'm guessing what was happening there is this is somebody who would ask you, without warning, where are you at where you're going to be by the end of the month, and they don't have to do it too many times before it's affecting your behaviour. And even when they're not there. You've got their voice ringing in your ears saying where am I at? Where am I going to be by the end of the month? And if you get that right in the beginning, then you don't have to be on people's back.

Adam Harley: 33:48

I think it's just you instilling that, you know that this? What are the most important things we need to know we need to understand we need to influence and we need to deliver on? I think if you understand that, and if you explain that and demonstrate why that's important to the people you're working with, then they buy into it. And then they also they're thinking, well, I've got to make sure I know exactly what's going on here. Because that's one of the most critical things. And OEM, one of his key things is what are you gonna do that month, that quarter that year. And this can go down to the wire, as most people won't grow homes or the test. You can be there at five o'clock on the last day of the month trying to get those last registrations in. And if you don't know where that's going to come from, you're going to be at a disadvantage. So yeah, that became apparent pretty early on in my in my career in sales company.

Andy Follows: 34:43

Yeah. And I love it. It's a great example of one of our four fundamentals that I talk about a lot, which is how clear are you about what you're supposed to be doing and how you're doing against those expectations. And that is a prime example and Have one of the things you need to have nailed down. 100%. Excellent. We've covered quite a lot of ground there. We've covered from joining alphabet in early 2000s. To Yes, your trajectory through BMW corporate finance, which was still within alphabet. And then earlier on to the BMW UK side. Yeah. You talked about alphabet being the naughty sibling, if you like, which is perhaps Yeah, I think it's lovely terminology. People might be thinking, What do you mean, a naughty sibling it's an incredibly polished corporate entity. It was fledgling, I guess, it

Adam Harley: 35:33

was yes, yeah, we were able to be a little bit, I'm not going to use the word Maverick, I'll tone it down and say entrepreneurial. But we had a bit of latitude, I think. And, you know, I suppose we didn't have the established behaviours, that a car manufacturer that have been in the UK for decades, how'd, and which also had a set of behaviours that you kind of had to adhere to, in that business. And then, so that was a negative to the BMW, okay, at all. But it just, you know, as alphabet, you know, we were new, we were growing, we had to try different things.

Andy Follows: 36:11

And our customers didn't come to us, you had to go out and find them. So it was a different type of business, really.

Adam Harley: 36:17

And that, in itself is a really interesting point. Because you're right, we had to go and find customers go out into the big wide world, we have to go up against the established leasing companies, as a company that had a reputation for just really doing BMWs and minis and say, Actually, no, we can do everything. And then we had to balance that between the w's expectations that we would do lots of BMWs and minis. But, you know, in that group, it was one of the few parts of the group that had to go and persuade people had total freedom of choice over who they used, and what they bought, ie, the company running a car fleet. And it was the same and I moved into running the leasing team, and BMW leasing companies, then they, nobody was forcing them to buy BMWs, their customers told them what they wanted to buy. And so we could, we didn't have the levers that we could pull quite as much. So it was critically important that you build relationship. And I built what, and it's a value I hold dear now, and I insist on in people that I work with, is integrity, that you have to operate with integrity, if you operate with integrity, you build that level of trust with stakeholders that then perhaps become more like partners, because they see that cya benefits. And that amount was something that developed a lot while I was in the leasing role. And I think actually, we have is one of the things is a bit self indulgent. But the things I'm really proud of is, you know, we were industry and peer recognised is probably the best leasing team, in the business. With the team, I had them were absolutely top of their game. And we and we have those relationships with the leasing companies at the time.

Andy Follows: 38:12

Yeah, so interesting using some of the other values, you know, staying true to your values, instilling those in your team using the skills that you've developed throughout your journey, and just applying it in a new environment. And it was adjacent, you know, the sales companies adjacent to the leasing company that you're part of, but it was sufficiently different as well, because of the maturity, the culture that as you say, both very professional from day one and alphabet, a very professional environment to be in. So what about moving on it? Have we covered things that you wanted to say in terms of

Adam Harley: 38:49

there was a, again, reflecting in preparation for this, Andy, I was thinking that towards the end of my 18 years at BMW, I started to get itchy feet, and also the sense that I wasn't really progressing. I was doing a good job. I did the leasing job for almost six years, because I loved it so much. And as I said, I had just an awesome team and everything was just, you know, going up probably about as well as it could. But I knew it was time for a move. And actually, you know, I was asked to move in, right in the midst of COVID into part of the financial services business. And I made that move because it kind of squared a circle. I've worked in the leasing company. I'd worked in the sales company, I thought right I go work in the financial services company I retail and it was it was Alphera which is the multi make brand a bit like the alphabet that you know Alphera Was the alphabet to retail finance. I enjoyed that role and I learned an awful lot. Great people again, but it cemented for me honest that I felt I needed to move out of the group. At that point, it was a sideways move. And you mentioned a sideways move. And I'd done two or three. And I was at that point, I thought hang on a moment to advance my career to reach my goals. This isn't happening in BMW. So I had to make that tough decision, because it's such an awesome company to say, What do I do here, Adam, you know, don't just keep this resentment, slightly building thinking, Well, why didn't I get that opportunity, go and make the opportunity and make a change. And as my friend, Jamie running, Jamie, for listening, he wants to hold me and it's not too inappropriate, Andy, but he told me once to grow a set of balls, and do something about it. And it was at the time when there was some opportunities in the pot. And it was it was one of the things honestly, that made me think, right, okay. Don't settle for where you are. Just because it's comfortable.

Andy Follows: 41:05

Is it’s really interesting because we hear about uncomfortable disillusioned. It's very hard when you're very comfortable. When you're very well looked after, when you're in a really good position. And you can see, if I do nothing, I will have, you know, jobs to the end of my working life. There'll be good jobs, there'll be great, Benefits.

Adam Harley: 41:31

Yeah,

Andy Follows: 41:32

that'd be I'll be surrounded by wonderful people. But that's not enough.

Adam Harley: 41:36

And you're so you're so right. You know, the last role I had I was, was heading up the broker team I was head of Rolls Royce financial services, really good jobs. We were writing a lot of volume a year again a great team, but it wasn't enough. And I went through those exact thoughts. You know, I mean, you know, I'm 53. And thinking, well, I could, I can ride this out at this level, until I retire and be pretty comfortable. But I thought I need to listen to that niggle, that is no come on Adam you got more more in you. There's more to be done. But it is pushing yourself out of that and thinking right? But you but what it does make you think like Andy is that level of comfort and security, you need to move for the right role. So the one thing I was determined not to do was just to move. And those opportunities, as we all know, they come up and you think, Well, what do I really gain from that? What am I going to learn? Even down to the, you know, the basics of Well, is it financially in my interest, and you know, all of those things have to align. So maybe really thinking about doing it. But it took me a while to get there. And if I'm really honest, I think it took me probably a couple of years longer than it should have done to come to that realisation.

Andy Follows: 42:51

I think that the two years is that's what happens when it's comfortable. It really is hard to break away from something that hasn't really got any flaws with it other than this little niggle this little voice that you've got saying, Yeah, you should be doing something different,

Adam Harley: 43:07

I think for balance, and it's also All right, to be there. And to think actually genuine, I'm quite happy here. If you are, I think some people, there's almost an innate, you know, within people say, well, I should keep striving to move forward. I should do that I should progress. But you know, it's actually okay to not do that if you're comfortable not doing it. And I've had conversations with people in my team that have been around to say, Don't worry, don't be sitting there thinking, well, I should think of something else I need to go and do. If you love what you do, and you love where you are, and you don't have that voice in your head. Then enjoy it, accept it and be happy where you are.

Andy Follows: 43:52

Yeah, that's a very good point. If you're happy, that's the end goal. You're winning.

Adam Harley: 43:57

I've seen people we all have people move thinking, it's gonna be great. It's the next best thing. And then suddenly your work life balance goes out of the window. When you really question Why did I do this? Yeah. And you know, the grass suddenly isn't greener, you're miserable. That extra few 1000 A year you're earning suddenly pales into insignificance compared to how you're feeling your personal relationships, your home life. And that was always something that's been really important to me is keeping that balance to be there for my family, to be able to be at home most of the week, not all of the week. And that's that's influenced my decisions as I've gone through life, probably one of the reasons we've stayed living in the vicinity of where we are right now.

Andy Follows: 44:49

So you said it probably took you a couple of years to kind of make the decision once you you realised you need to do some but it was still two years in the making. How did it actually happen?

Adam Harley: 45:01

So I went through a period of what do I want to do? And where would I like to go and start to think about where that might be. And it's an insert? Well, it's not that interesting. It's vaguely interesting. But you know, I've always considered myself a leasing person. So that is where my, my passion is, where my knowledge is, where my network is. But at the time, I really was looking at making the moves. I was in the retail financial services business of BM done. And I decided to speculatively drop a note to commercial director at Santander, who was a big operator in the retail finance space, who also had had a couple of forays into the leasing world. And actually was was quite a big operator, but in my view, had vast amounts of capability. And from a genuinely speculative email to say, Hi, I'm Adam Harley. I've done this, I've done that. I think I could offer you a lot. A few weeks later, that develops into, can we have a team's call, and jumped on that call. And the Deputy CEO is on that call. And the ICO is quite serious. This seems to be a bit more than a, you know, kind of have 30 minute intro call. And they talk to me about the aspirations to develop the leasing proposition, which is all public knowledge. And they were looking at creating and developing the sales capability wasn't quite there yet. But could we keep in touch. And it took quite a long time. I think that was the early summer that happened. And I started the following January, March rather. So it took a long time, but it was literally me sitting down thinking, who are the players in this market? What opportunities might there be? Where could I make a difference? And Andy, that was what I wanted to do, I wanted to have some influence in the direction that an organisation might take and have something I'm not going to be bold as to say, you know, a legacy, I don't I'm not talking about that. But I wanted to perhaps make my mark on something. And it was an opportunity that they I can use my years of experience from a knowledge of working for a leasing company, working for a captive lease co working for an OEM, actually also working in retail, finance, all of those things together, I think, in this industry, quite powerful, and relatively rare. And I thought that could bring value to this business guy obviously believed it and offered me a job. And here I am almost a year later, doing that job for Santander, which I love. And it is everything I wanted.

Andy Follows: 48:02

Excellent. I'm going to ask you perhaps a little bit more about that in a moment. First of all, I want to thank you for sharing that because that is exactly what I encourage people to do is do the reflection have the level of self awareness to know what what you're looking for, and then treat the market as a market and think, Okay, well, where can I go and sell my value? Who's going to be interested in what I bring? And who's going to see the value in it, and then approach them? So you're not just responding to an opportunity that comes up on LinkedIn or something? You're thinking? No, these are the sorts of organisations where I would have the most value and where I'm, I like their culture, and I think I could fit of us, and then start reaching out to them. And it's a great example. And often in these conversations people, they say, well, oh, yeah, and I got approached by and then, you know, I'd already known this person for years, and they asked me, and so this is a nice little twist where you didn't you know, that wasn't what happened here. It was more proactive from your point of view, and there's nothing wrong I've got it's it's it's wonderful how people's careers generally go the ones I talked to, but now I like this dimension where you've reached out

Adam Harley: 49:23

I was fortunate Andy because I didn't I didn't kind of scattergun the market. So to your point, you know, it was I'll email and that you know, I wasn't particularly expecting anything other than Thanks. Good to hear from you. Yeah, well, you know, nothing going on at the moment that will blow your mind kind of thing, that polite response. So to get that response, I mean, you know, I know Right Place Right Time and all of that. But it is absolutely worth doing I'd say to anybody if you if you know your market, and again to your point, if you know your value Yeah, absolutely, I would encourage people to do that thing. Where can I fit in? Why can I make a difference? Rather than waiting for something to crop up? Or just going and doing something very similar to what you're doing now, just somewhere else, you know, think about what you're gonna get and what they're gonna get. And if those two things align, then that's a pretty good match.

Andy Follows: 50:22

Yeah, know your value Know your worth. And it's incredibly helpful for someone, a hiring manager to meet someone who actually knows themselves and knows what their strengths are, and knows what they're looking for knows where they can the work they want to be doing and how, you know, this fits with what I did before. And this is why I know I'm going to be good at it. You know, oh, great, okay, I don't have to figure all that out. You've done the hard yards of figuring it all out for me. And I can decide then whether I think you're going to fit and whether whether I agree with you or not. So yeah, good stuff. And to what extent if any, does the opportunity at Santander mirror resemble the early years of Alphabet?

Adam Harley: 51:05

I would say there's less latitude. We're a regulated environment where a bank, so there's a lot of unnecessary regulatory and compliance related content subject matter, to navigate your way around to find a solution that meets those requirements, that is providing the right customer outcomes, and keeping us on the right side of the regulator. Even in an unregulated space. Those ways of dealing with customers, whether they are business or personal customers, kind of permeates exactly how we deal with everybody. So we don't have a different rule set, essentially, for dealing with one type of customer. If it's right over here, it's kind of right over there. So there was more to get through to get things to happen. But the nice thing is we have not quite a clean sheet of paper, it's an F n 10. leasing company. You know, there's there's a big fleet there already, there's the existing operation. But the growth potential, and the ability to, to make a difference and create a great leasing business is just huge. And we have the brand, huge brand name, sitting behind us the resources locally, and at HQ level, all the ingredients are there. I'm not saying it's going to be easy. But it's a really exciting journey to go on. And it's quite early on in that journey. But I can see the progress so far. And the things we're doing. And I'm excited for the future.

Andy Follows: 52:49

And has that voice gone quiet now that one that wanted you to do something else?

Adam Harley: 52:54

Yeah. Yes, very much. You know what they say be careful what you wish for, but know this. I'm very happy. I'm being intellectually challenged. And that was something I'd been missing. If I'm honest, and BMW Group , it was a little bit too easy,

Andy Follows: 53:11

because you knew it. So well.

Adam Harley: 53:13

Yes And yes. And no, I think I had good teams. And I think, you know, I'm, I'm good at setting things up to operate in the right way, setting up the environment. So I walked into roles that in businesses that were established and took things over. This is different, because although the business is established, generating and increasing the capability, growing the volume and the value we derive, that's got to be done. So, yes, I think it's, it's not easy. It's the challenge that I wanted. But it's within my capability and skill set to do. So I don't feel overwhelmed by it, which is also

Andy Follows: 53:56

Yeah, there, you've got that balance between a positive. a level of challenge that keeps you stimulated and get you into a state of flow, without going into overwhelm without the challenge exceeding your capability where you get too overwhelmed. So another perfect example of that concept. So good. Is there anything I haven't asked you, Adam, that means I've missed out on something?

Adam Harley: 54:19

I don't think so. Andy, I think you know, that we've drawn out a few bits. You know, I've been very fortunate to work with some great people. And so one of the things that I would say in this, again, this may be a little self indulgent, but it's a reflection on the individuals, more than me, I believe that, you know, I take genuinely take a lot of pride in seeing the development of the people that I've worked with, to be really accurate. They don't work for me in my team, because they've gone on and quite a few of these people have gone on to do bigger and better things. And I've always Try to Well, I have spent a lot of time in coaching people in my style. I'm not, you know, a formal coaching, training, but just trying to develop people, let me put it that way into being the best version of them that they can be helping them find, where are they good, where are their strengths. And it's not to say that's the same as mine, or that they should operate the same way I did. But I really, I really, genuinely enjoy seeing those people develop and moving on in their careers and finding their place where they're, they're in flow, and it's within their capability, but that their career is progressing through. And that's, that's probably something I'd like to add. And as I won't name them, but there are lots of people from back in the alphabet day, that were doing some really great jobs now, my last team at BMW that, you know, they're all progressing into more senior roles. And I'd like to think I had a bit of a hand in that, but the main work comes from them. And, you know, I applaud them for having that open mindset to really listen and understand and think, right, come with me on the journey, but finding themselves, what will drive them?

Andy Follows: 56:15

Great, I'm glad you had the opportunity to share that. And as you're saying that I'm thinking of members of your current team potentially listening to this thinking, okay, so if they hadn't already picked up on that, you know, they can have a one to one with you and say, Hey, Adam, you know how you said, that, who really care about this? And can I tell you what I'm hoping some of my aspirations are and what I'm looking to do, and, you know, can you help me on my journey to get there and know that they're going to find a receptive hearing from you?

Adam Harley: 56:46

Very much. Yeah, it's this sounds, again, a bit of a cliche, but I really mean this Andy, it's a, it's a team journey. You know, I certainly, you know, there's so much that I could not do, I might be able to create the environment and influence it at a level. But in terms of, you know, the people doing the real work, you know, you can't do it on your own. So I think if those people know, know the value and know that you're there, and that you're open to help me develop, then yeah, I welcome those conversations. And if I'm not proactively having them, then people should come and speak to me.

Andy Follows: 57:23

Yeah, and some people might not realise quite how much you are comfortable with that and genuine about it. So having that underlined is helpful. And the way I explain that is, I want people in my team who are really engaged and are able to connect the work that they're doing now with their own personal purpose, so that they'll get the best out of the opportunity. And we as a team will get the best out of them, and the organisation will get the best out of them. So it really is a win win. And that's why the, you know, I mentioned the the four fundamentals, another of them is about purpose, and it's about how much does it mean to you? What you're doing, you know, how much is your heart in this, because that's going to be one of the factors that really determines the level of performance, sometimes for it to mean something, we help make the connection between the journey they're gonna go on the longer term journey, and this what is this bringing, how they're able to play to their strengths in this role and develop and grow. So I don't mind that you're not planning on doing this forever. What I want is the best out of you right now. And I know I can get the best out of you right now. If you can see how this tracks with your future aspirations. So I think it's yes, it's okay to have those

Adam Harley: 58:47

that makes total sense Yeah.

Andy Follows: 58:49

Thank you very much, Adam. It's been a real pleasure to talk to you. And I don't think we've been too self indulgent in terms of going down memory lane. And there's a lot more we could talk about. We'll do that separately. But thank you so much for joining me and sharing.

Adam Harley: 59:07

Not at all, I really enjoyed it. And as others of your guests have mentioned it. It's great to actually get down your sort of career memory lane. And think about, you know, the people who've influenced you and what you've learned some, perhaps what bits of information you might be able to impart. So I really enjoyed. Thanks for Thanks for having me.

Andy Follows: 59:30

You're very welcome. Bye bye for now.

Adam Harley: 59:33

Cheers, bye.

Andy Follows: 59:39

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me. Andy Follows depending on your unique life experience, where you find yourself right now and your personal goals. You'll have your own takeaways from Adam's story. Some elements that stood out for me were the early influence, seeing his father working hard, and then seeing his brother doing well how an off the cuff remark at a wedding may have affected his approach to A levels knowing that he had a job lined up to go to that he was happy about. That remark and his brother's influence led to a first job in estate agency. After a few years, him starting to think about going further afield and exposing himself to a more corporate organisation. Recognising that a move into , PHH's relocation business was adjacent to his experience and would give him a foot in the door of the organisation that then putting him in a good position to get into their vehicle leasing business, and then a call from me of all people saying we'd like him to come and join us at Alphabet. That was the beginning of an 18 year stint with BMW that allowed him to get further leasing and leadership experience as well as resulting in roles in what we would call the sales company BMW UK, BMW Financial Services, and in multimake retail financial services with Alphera. And recognising that no matter how comfortable he was, he started to get itchy feet and felt the need to take on a fresh challenge. The way he approached that being mindful that it had to be the right thing that he went to identifying Santander as a potential brand he'd like to work for where he could bring his expertise to bear to help grow the leasing business, and reaching out to the commercial director which started the ball rolling. If you'd like to connect with Adam, we'll put his contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Adam for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the Career-view Mirror team without whom we'd not be able to share our guests life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening.