Sylvia Scherer: The trailblazer's companion who leverages deep connection to coach leaders and businesses through transformation.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Sylvia Scherer. 

Sylvia is a certified Business Coach who accompanies organisations and leaders in times of transformation.

Before founding her own business, she worked over a decade as a sustainability leader for the BMW Group, including 3 years as Head of Strategy and Internal Communication in China.

Sylvia is determined to transform the business world through coaching. She focuses on deep individual development of visionary and pioneering personalities, supporting them in being mature leaders and in moving our world forward together.

In our conversation we discuss her childhood efforts to create some financial independence and the sense that there was more for her outside of her village. Sylvia shares how her desire to fit in affected both her performance at school and her choice of people to hang out with, which may surprise you. We talk about her career journey including her time in China and her reintegration back into Munich where she co-founded the Connected Culture Club. And Sylvia explains the work that she is doing now working with pioneers.

I met Sylvia over 10 years ago and I feel I really got to know her a lot more and connect during our conversation. I'm pleased to give you the opportunity to get to know her too and I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Connect with Sylvia:
LinkedIn: Sylvia Scherer
Email: sylvia@sylviascherer.com
Website: Sylvia Scherer

Thank you to our sponsors:
ASKE Consulting
Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

Aquilae
Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

Release the handbrake! - The Fulfilling Performance Hub

Episode Directory on Instagram @careerviewmirror 

If you enjoy listening to our guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app. 

Episode recorded on 21 February, 2024.

Transcript

Sylvia Scherer: 0:00

So I had, I was in contact with HR to get the final contract done. And I thought, I'm going to be very bold. So I went to HR, and I was negotiating, and she said, We can do that amount more, but nothing else. And that was in hindsight, stupid for me to give in. Because I should have negotiated more. I learned a lot as a woman. Negotiate more. Always, if you think that's fine, it's not fine. It must be more.

Aquilae: 0:32

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows.

Andy Follows: 1:04

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously join me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers, listen to their stories, and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Sylvia Scherer. Sylvia is a certified business coach who accompanies organisations and leaders in times of transformation. before founding her own business, she worked over a decade as a sustainability leader for the BMW Group, including three years as head of strategy and internal communication in China. Sylvia is determined to transform the business world through coaching. She focuses on deep individual development of visionary and pioneering personalities supporting them in being mature leaders and in moving our world forward together. In our conversation, we discuss her childhood efforts to create some financial independence, and the sense that there was more for her outside of her village. Sylvia shares how her desire to fit in affected both her performance at school and her choice of people to hang out with which may surprise you. We talk about her career journey, including her time in China and her reintegration back into Munich, where she co founded the Connected Culture Club. And Sylvia explains the work that she's doing now working with pioneers. I met Sylvia over 10 years ago, and I feel I really got to know her a lot more and connect during our conversation. I'm pleased to give you the opportunity to get to know her too. And I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time. Hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted adviser to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance check out Release the Handbrake! The Fulfilling Performance Hub on substack. We'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. Hello, Sylvia. And welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

Sylvia Scherer: 3:05

Good morning Andy, I'm in Munich, Sunny Munich in Germany.

Andy Follows: 3:10

Thank you so much for joining me. I've been looking forward to speaking to you for quite some time. As with all my guests, I'd like to start by asking you about where your journey began. Where were you born?

Sylvia Scherer: 3:21

I was born in a small village in Western Germany. 500 people living there, very tiny. And that's probably also had a huge impact on me as a person.

Andy Follows: 3:34

What's it called?

Sylvia Scherer: 3:36

It's called Hotzbach, which is called it should be like Wood River.

Andy Follows: 3:40

Right. And how has it had such a huge impact on you,

Sylvia Scherer: 3:44

because I was a girl with big dreams, but born into a tiny village and somehow had to adapt to that, which probably could mean and we're going deep already. Which probably meant for me that I didn't really feel belonging as a child.

Andy Follows: 4:03

That's fascinating. And you're already making me think of other guests that I've had who've had a similar experience. I think it's really interesting this idea that you could be born into a place and feel that it's not home or it's not right for you. So tell us a little bit about that time when you were growing up please about your family. Do you have brothers and s isters?

Sylvia Scherer: 4:23

Yes, two brothers.

Andy Follows: 4:25

And where do you sit in their rankings if you like, cronologically, Im not asking you to rate the family

Sylvia Scherer: 4:34

My brothers are actually 15 and 13 years older. So I asked my father one day was I an accident? And he said no, because in Germany accident means [german] and he said no you were [german], which is a fortune or like a happy incident. So he twisted that one. Yeah, of course. Then at home, my brothers nearly left the house already or moved out of the house or the home and I went was like, feeling like an only child, really. One of them I think went to civil service when he was 18. So I was three. And the other one, I remember one scene when he was learning, I think, for the German [german] for school, and I knocked on his door. And I said, Can you play with me? And he said, No, I have, I don't have any time. And it seems now to have had a huge impact on me, because I remember that being, you know, pushed away, and having no one to play with. Because obviously, when you're 15, or 17, you don't want to play with with your little sister.

Andy Follows: 5:35

So everyone listening can just pay attention to that, that stuck with you being rejected at that time. I still remember the scene. I know exactly how I was standing And we know we, we remember things that have a high emotional impact. They're the ones that stay in our memory. Thanks for sharing that. And what about Mum and Dad? What did you see your parents doing? I always ask this question. Because I'm curious what we don't get to see many careers, we get to see the careers that are visible that the ones that are in the public domain, if you like, but when people go off there. into offices, and so on, we have no clue what they're doing when we're children. So what did you have sight of what were mum and dad doing?

Sylvia Scherer: 6:12

I guess I was born into a rather unnatural family because my mother worked at the time. My mother was already 39 When I was born, so she was born in 1938, before the war, and for women at that time, it wasn't usual, it wasn't common that women worked. And she was pushing to be independent, financially, also. So that's what I grew up with. And it was rather weird for me going into the world and seeing that a lot of women at that time, didn't work at all, and stayed at home. So especially also, when we come to our company, BMW where we met, a lot of men told me that their wives don't work. And for me, that was a totally different world. I grew up with a mother, totally independent. She was she was like, very dominant in the house. So yeah, I think that had a huge impact on me.

Andy Follows: 7:12

Yeah I think it's a great example of how our experience informs what we believe, especially in those early years informs what we believe the normal is. And

Sylvia Scherer: 7:22

And also, I think it had a huge impact on me as a personality. Because as my mother was very dominant, or like at least clear with what she wants and what she didn't want, I thought that's normal to express your opinion. And I found out during my work life or even in school, that that's not always how it's lived in the world. So maybe sometimes you You better be quiet. And my mother was not that kind

Andy Follows: 7:49

She sounds like she was quite a role model. Okay, and what about your father

Sylvia Scherer: 8:02

Maybe I should mention, my mother was a nurse. So she was employed, and my father had his own business, in the insurance business. So also my way of growing up was different because as my mother worked, even in shifts, but she still worked. So the main part of time I was with my father, he took me with him to clients to his tours. So I grew up rather being with my father and my mother, which was also not usual at that time.

Andy Follows: 8:32

No. And to have had exposure to his work as well would be valuable.

Sylvia Scherer: 8:37

And there's, there's also as you say that, I don't know if you remember that, but when we worked together, I didn't like shaking people's hands. And that was because I grew up I grew up with my father going to all his clients, and as a little girl I had to give every like in Germany, it was usual to give people when you greet them, the hand shaking hands. I didn't like that at all as a child, because they were like for like strange people to me, Why should I give them my hand? And that that had an impact. So even today in business life, I don't like shaking hands.

Andy Follows: 9:12

so I'm just thinking COVID was a great time for you

Sylvia Scherer: 9:18

people now I tried to get out of that shaking hands because I said, I'm now used to the COVID time so let's let's skip this.

Andy Follows: 9:26

The unknown benefits of COVID Lovely. Do you know where your mum got her personality or whatever you'd like to however you'd like to describe it that made her sort of so independent and want to be independent?

Sylvia Scherer: 9:39

I think my my grandma, as far as I know, the brother, the two brothers of my grandma, were killed in the war. So my grandma had to take over the family business. And she had didn't have a chance to say no. And her husband and my grandpa was a teacher, and he was away a lot. have the time, because he, as I understood, he taught in a different town. So my grandma also had to be very independent and pave her path through life. So I guess my mother saw that she was the oldest,

Andy Follows: 10:14

that makes sense. And tell us about school please, what would you like as a student? How would your teachers have described you?

Sylvia Scherer: 10:21

Well it's funny, because one and a half weeks ago, I visited my primary school teacher after 35 years, and saw her again. And she remembered, I asked her about how I was as a as a child, it's really funny that you asked that, I guess, feeling no belonging. Before school, even before primary school, I went a bit quieter as compared to the my natural personality. And when I went to school, I was I probably was the quiet child. And I had her in fourth grade when I was like, 9 10 ish. And she was the one who encouraged me to be different, to not hide anything. My father taught me writing and, you know, calculating and all this stuff way before I went to school, so I was, I was bored in school, at primary school. And she used that and gave me like, really difficult tasks and sat me in the back of the class. At the time, as a child, that's not really good, because the other children don't like that. But I was like, I felt really great, because there were all these, you know, numbers, and I could play around and writing and she gave me all these tasks. And that was, she was one of the people, I would say, had a huge impact on my life. Because she saw, she allowed me to be different. And I asked her that I spent two hours with her two weeks ago. And it was really a great conversation. She is around 90 year now. And I thanked her for that. And she was a really great teacher.

Andy Follows: 11:58

That's wonderful. And wonderful that you got the opportunity to go back and thank her. So a little bit bored in primary school, you were so fortunate to have this woman who cared about you and found ways to stretch you and invested in you. How did that progress through your later school years? How did you get on,

Sylvia Scherer: 12:17

I guess, at the time when I was nine or 10, I, until then I had a best friend from childhood, like we were born two months apart. But then her parents got divorced. And she moved out of the village. So I was left with rather nothing. We changed school, she went to another school, I went to Gymnasium, which is high school. Now I don't know the English word. And my mother told me once that I came home in fifth grade after a few months and said, I'm not going to write any good grades anymore, because I don't get any friends. Because children can be really cruel. I didn't have to do much effort in you know, learning at the time. Now I have to, but then it flowed a bit. It was easy for me to learn and to get along. But then I, I watched my certificates. I don't know what[German] is in English. But I watched my grades in these years from whatever 10 to 18. And they are horrible, like the worst grades. And I wasn't a stupid child. But I somehow and my mother told me that once I thought maybe I did that really on purpose. I wrote bad grades to not be the intelligent kid. It sounds a bit awkward. But you know what I mean?

Andy Follows: 13:37

Absolutely. And the phrase it brings to mind from my coach training was, how is that serving you? And it was potentially serving you. Because we always do this, there's always a reason why we do things and we're potentially serving you by making you stand out less making you more popular

Sylvia Scherer: 13:55

and fit in.

Andy Follows: 13:57

Yeah, because we want to fit in. When you were coming up towards the end of your school days, how clear were you about what you wanted to do next? I

Sylvia Scherer: 14:07

I guess I have to go a few years back because I

Andy Follows: 14:07

in what way? remember that around 14 or 15. I already said I'm gonna study

Sylvia Scherer: 14:25

because you know, when you go to corporates, economics, because somehow my brothers went to university. Of course, like that was the way like that was the path. I didn't question that so and also what I probably should mention, because we talked about fitting in, and from around 14 I was like a horrible child in like running away from home. Like I was in every club. I was on every party I went at the time they were you know the techno scene, even when when I was 16 to the Berlin Love or when you go into the business life, and you have these experience from a very different world, from very different parade at the time with some weird no not Well friends, but people. And you see, you know, all the people in suits, and costumes, and elegantly dressed people, I had also this still different people. And my mother and my father must, you different world. And I thought, the world is not always like one way. There's a lot of different circles in this world, or at know that there must have been really worried because I was least in my world. And I was always trying to find like the connection, what can we learn from those circles. And trying to fit in a certain French circle. And I went like sometimes I had the impression that some people, especially in the corporate world, they as they don't know, other circles, or they don't know, different people. They make their crazy. I don't know why, but it was at the time that I, I was at decisions, of course, based on their experience, but I think we need more experience with different people and different every party, because I just wanted to belong somewhere. I'm circles to make better decisions for everyone. And but that's, you know, going very deep here. I don't know if you know, Hells Angels, the motorcycle, you know, that they really criminal? still happy that I did that. But it was a crazy time. And that You know, I went to parties with them. I was in totally different circles. And because I just wanted to know, who are those had an impact also on my future. That's why I mentioned it people? Even in a in an early age, I wouldn't do that now. But at the time, you don't think about it.

Andy Follows: 17:00

Just my mouth is wide open. Because I know corporate, I've met you as corporate Sylvia. I know a lot of people from BMW will listen to this.

Sylvia Scherer: 17:11

I've never talked about it.

Andy Follows: 17:14

There'll be probably one or two other people thinking, wow, Sylvia used to be a biker chick. So I'm gonna frame that

Sylvia Scherer: 17:25

You know that I had a motorcycle, I shared one with my ex boyfriend. I even had the clothes, and I have pictures, I won't show

Andy Follows: 17:35

one day. Absolutely fascinating. And we talked already earlier in this conversation about the influence that your mother had on you, someone you were in close proximity to. And you thought that was the way to behave, because she was your best reference point, if you like for being a woman and a mother, in the same way that people who find themselves in a corporate role that haven't experienced other environments, will automatically think that the people they met through school and university and their parents of their friends, those are the normal people. And that's how you behave. And they won't have exposure to all these different people who are out there with different thinking and perspectives, which is what we're trying so hard now to do with diversity and inclusion, isn't it to recognise that there's all these other perspectives that we're missing out on? So really interesting. So they're all Wow, you were not quite the student that I might have imagined. And you're living this rather wild life and escaping, trying to fit in, but also escaping at the same time I'm getting is what's going on?

Sylvia Scherer: 18:36

Yeah, let me think about that. I guess I wanted to escape the village life. And you know, the circle I was somehow born in. And I tried to fit in with people who were totally different, who were like crazy with whom I can feel more than being in a small village, which is not to, you know, to be the to accuse the village. In itself. It's rather that the environment for me thinking back wasn't probably the environment I dreamt of as a child.

Andy Follows: 19:11

No it's fascinating. You could sense that there was more without having seen more.

Sylvia Scherer: 19:16

I read a lot. I remember my mother, my mother once got a membership of a book club, because she had to buy a lot of books for me. And I wanted all these, you know, adventurous books. And I read them like I spent weeks reading, I had my own little, this wasn't even in my room. I had a mattress in a different room, but it's a really small room. And that was my reading place. So where no one can find me,

Andy Follows: 19:45

that makes sense. So that's where you were getting your exposure to there was something else. There's more more than what's in the village and I'm curious, I want to go and find out.

Sylvia Scherer: 19:55

Definitely, because at the time what we should consider there wasn't much television And there was no internet. So books were my escape.

Andy Follows: 20:05

And you mentioned economics. So where did that fit in that idea of I'll go and study economics.

Sylvia Scherer: 20:13

I think also, as we didn't have internet at the time, there wasn't much choice. Because as my parents didn't study, they were like normal workers. So I didn't have much choice. There was law, there was economics, there was medicine, there was architecture, and there was maybe five or six opportunities to go to university. I didn't know much more. So economics seemed reasonable, because that at least was the basis for everything else. And it left a lot of room for choice afterwards.

Andy Follows: 20:46

Did you have to leave home to study?

Sylvia Scherer: 20:49

Yeah, I spent two years doing an apprenticeship close to home like three kilometres. I stayed with my parents, because I wanted to do something practical before before studying. I don't know where that came from. But I, I was working when I, I think I was nine years old. When I started selling scissors in our village, just remembering that I knocked on every door in the maybe 100 houses. Maybe I should have been a salesman. Maybe that came from my mother. I wanted to be financially independent. So I started earning money. Way ahead of everyone else. I didn't use paper distribution. I worked in a cafe, I worked in a bakery. I like I did every job, because I wanted to go and be financially independent. And even my parents would have paid. It wasn't that we didn't have any money. But I wanted to have my own money.

Andy Follows: 21:44

Wow. I've got to ask why scissors.

Sylvia Scherer: 21:47

I don't know. I still have that. I could keep one scissor. I still have it. It's perfectly working. It was 20 d mark at the time. And it was a really luxury scissor. And I sold a lot of them. In that moment, it was just really funny. I don't know how I got maybe my father introduced that to me. I don't know. And my surname Scherer. Scherer is scissor in Germany, so it's kind of weird. Anyway, it's a story.

Andy Follows: 22:18

It's a perfect story. And what I love as well, I feel like you're remembering this for the first time in a while. Yes. Watching your face, as this is happening is an absolute joy.

Sylvia Scherer: 22:29

Yeah, we're jumping back and forth currently. But

Andy Follows: 22:36

yeah, I love it. From Sylvia Scherer nine year old scissor sales girl to biker chick, and then we'll get

Sylvia Scherer: 22:45

oh my god. My career is ruined.

Andy Follows: 22:48

no, no, it's all development. And as you say, you used it when you were in your corporate life to say, Hey, guys, there are other perspectives out there. There are other people. And another word you use, which I'm going to go back, sorry, you're gonna go back you said costume. They're there in their suits and their costumes. And I don't know whether that was just a literal translation.

Sylvia Scherer: 23:06

It was but somehow as you mentioned it, isn't it.

Andy Follows: 23:10

I love that word. I'm gonna use that word now for it because I often talk about in my academy teams, you can leave your suit of armour, you can leave your corporate mask at the door, but costume just says it or you can leave your costume.

Sylvia Scherer: 23:22

That's so funny. I remember one story with my I was in a consultancy after after university for five years. And I had a boss at the time who rated my way of dressing bad in the yearly evaluation. And he said I am not adequately dressed. And I asked him because I was dressing in like normal not jeans, but normal stuff, trousers and blouses. But he and I asked him What should I wear every day. And he said every day a costume, which is the German costume is the German word for female suit with a skirt. And this costume is sort of like as you as you mentioned it it's so fitting because for me it was a costume. Yeah, I didn't feel at all being dressed in a suit.

Andy Follows: 24:12

So not fitting in again.

Sylvia Scherer: 24:14

Exactly.

Andy Follows: 24:16

So you went to university you did two years apprenticeship was that purely because I know some of my guests in Germany it's a wonderful system you can do an apprenticeship while you can study while you start your career really, you know whether that's in a bank or or somewhere else so when was your apprenticeship separate? Were you doing something entirely sort of self contained? What was that what was the apprenticeship?

Sylvia Scherer: 24:36

It was in[German] it's called in Germany. It was in a company who produced champagne bottle closures out of plastics. And I started there and I was lucky because one of my colleagues got pregnant after a few months. And when she left the company, I took over her job which was the head of export in my apprenticeship after like eight or nine months, so I had a huge responsibility then. Yeah. And that made me grow. Because I had to travel with with the owner of the company, it was like 50 employees there who like France and to customers and see how they got along with with our products. It was like it was really a great time.

Andy Follows: 25:20

Amazing, pretty young age.

Sylvia Scherer: 25:23

I was 19 20.

Andy Follows: 25:25

But you had been on business trips with your father before?

Sylvia Scherer: 25:28

Yes. But not, you know, not out of the country

Andy Follows: 25:31

But international. Excellent. And so you did that two years. And then as it was planned as was expected, you went to university and you studied economics, how was your time at university?

Sylvia Scherer: 25:42

different, I guess I um, I still have one of my best friends from university time. It was Mannheim University. And Mannheim was or is really famous for economics. And of course, that meant that a lot of economics people were studying there. And it was a different world. Because at the time there were, you know, this polo shirt, and Ralph Lauren, and all these things, which I thought was again, really weird. It was a, again, another circle of people. I loved it. In the first years, I had my then boyfriend at home. So I spent the weekends not at university, but you know, in on the countryside again, which I probably wouldn't do now. But yeah, it was a different time. And after three years or so I started living more in Mannheim, being on parties more, being with new friends more. And that opened up new doors,

Andy Follows: 26:40

doors that we should go through or doors that just in a general sense,

Sylvia Scherer: 26:44

it wasn't er, it was a normal university party. So it seems like I'm a party girl but I, I was lucky because with these people there, they were all really great people in terms of yeah, let's learn, let's develop ourselves, let's grow together. So I guess that was also a time where I saw you can go out on a Thursday evening and party with the people. And still these people will get up in the next morning and grow themselves in learning and in doing something for university. So I guess it was a mixed a good mix of different worlds.

Andy Follows: 27:24

Yeah, that's really helpful, I think, to recognise the impact that the people around us our friendship group has. And we've heard with you the example of how you let your grades, perhaps deliberately slide at school to fit in with the group around you. And now you have an opportunity to have fun and also grow and work develop yourself.

Sylvia Scherer: 27:44

That's an interesting perspective. Thank you for that, because I never saw it like this. Because as a coach, and I stress a lot, the social circle you are in, it makes a huge difference, if not the most difference of it all. It's so important who you surround yourself with. Imagine like I always mentioned that drastic example, if you grow up with the Dalai Lama, or Vladimir Putin, you will be a different person. So that's really important that the earliest possible in your life you choose or like, at least you are aware of your surrounding circle and how that impacts you.

Andy Follows: 28:28

Yeah, I love that. So a good time at university still able to party but with some people who really were passionate about the subject as well, I wanted to develop themselves and grow. So you were supporting each other to perform at a high level. That's one of my sorry, you just reminded me of one of the key questions in my model is how is the behaviour of the people around you at work and at home supporting you to perform at a high level. And that speaks to this this idea that you mentioned,

Sylvia Scherer: 28:57

it's funny you say that when you say perform at a high level I also would add to be the real you.

Andy Follows: 29:03

Absolutely. And I have a very specific definition of performing at a high level, which I won't go into right now. Because my listeners will be their eyes to the ceiling, the eye rolling, not Fulfilling Performance again, but I'll share it with you seperately.

Sylvia Scherer: 29:22

Sounds interesting, let's let's talk about it.

Andy Follows: 29:24

OK well, oh go on if I must. It's all about us using all of our talent, intelligence, creativity and capability. And it's about us getting energised and fulfilled from the work that we do so that at the end of doing our work, we're actually not drained and exhausted, but wer'e able to go home and be a great partner, parent and human being it's a very holistic and yeah, that's that's the purpose. So,

Sylvia Scherer: 29:49

you know, that reminds me of that wonderful sentence from Khalil Gibran who said work is love made visible

Andy Follows: 29:58

Beautiful. I'd haven't heard that I love it. Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae When we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers for my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at Hello@ASKEconsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at WWW.ASKEconsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode. Then coming towards the end of university and getting into your first career position, you've obviously had your apprenticeship but your first sort of Post University Career position. What's the story there? How did that happen?

Sylvia Scherer: 32:11

As usual, I'm going to throw in one sequence of my life because at the end of studies, before writing my diploma thesis, I decided I'm going on a world trip. And I spent three months in most of the time in Australia and New Zealand, but also in Singapore, Hong Kong, and a bit of Asia. And that was life changing as well because that's again, another circle. You know, the backpacker community people from all around the world, I travelled a few weeks with three people from one of them from Wales, one of them from Scotland, one of them from Israel. And it was the greatest time because you had totally different topics to talk about. Being in an in other cultures and being exposed to even more cultures travelling around. That changed a lot for me because I saw, okay, the world's really big. And I have now the power to choose myself, where to go how to live my life and be also myself. And that is why I also say to a lot of young people go on travels. I know it's really a different topic today with all the you know, co2 discussions and sustainability discussions. I understand that but I think being exposed to different cultures makes you more open to each other and we need more openness. We come to that a bit later. And then when I came back, I wrote my diploma thesis. Or before that time going to Australia I had an internship at BMW. My mother told me I only wrote one application to BMW because I love cars. My car at home and in the countryside was my way to freedom. So I'm still I love cars. Till today. My car is my everything. So yeah, I had an internship at BMW. I had a female, not boss, but somehow who took care of me at the time. I remember like first or second day she said to me, you need to know one thing you go in for the next six months, you will go to lunch every day with a different person. Don't spend too much time in one circle. Get yourself exposed to the most people you can imagine. And that was really as you know, the company that was really helpful because I had a huge network

Andy Follows: 34:45

that's valuable for anyone listening particularly anyone in BMW who doesn't know that, or who's been told it and doesn't get it.

Sylvia Scherer: 34:52

Well you have it somehow you have to be the personality. I was used to that because of my father. Getting along with a lot of different people. but that was really a valuable asset still, throughout the whole time at BMW, because it's totally different if you had lunch already with a person if he knows, or she knows who you are, and then you just can call them and say, Okay, can we do that that way? Or can we can we have this decision that way? Or can can we discuss this? It's so much easier when you know, people, instead of like going, you know, like calling or writing an email to someone? Can we meet and get to know each other?

Andy Follows: 35:29

Yeah, you've already done it. You've done the groundwork, and then you can get things done. Very good. So that was before you went travelling?

Sylvia Scherer: 35:38

Yes. Then I went travelling. Then I wrote wrote the diploma thesis. And then I went five years into a consultancy, also working with the client BMW.

Andy Follows: 35:50

Okay, but not directly into BMW. And how did you find being in a consultancy,

Sylvia Scherer: 35:57

besides the dress code, I loved it. That was a really great time, the consultancy, when I joined was around eight people. And during my time there in five years, we grew the company to like, I think 80 people. And being in the journey for such a growth or such like growing a company at an early stage of the career had a huge impact on me. Because at the beginning, you have to do a lot of things. I wasn't only consulting clients I did. I was also head of marketing with a huge title. But but there was only me doing marketing. I was involved in so many topics, growing up that company, very different from joining a corporate afterwards.

Andy Follows: 36:45

Yeah, I can imagine that's a really good opportunity for your growth. Yes, peer development, exposure to lots of different areas.

Sylvia Scherer: 36:55

And also, like when I remember the founder of the consultancy, he was a great guy, because he was an entrepreneur. And he tried things he gave me responsibility, like he said, Go out and do what you think must be done. That's a huge trust he gave me and I could create a lot of things with him or in that company.

Andy Follows: 37:20

I'm loving this, I got so many, I want to introduce you to so many people that you're bringing back all these other conversations I've had. So I'm thinking how good a fit is this that the girl who wanted to be independent, finds herself with a founder in a small organisation who is happy to give her autonomy. This is a perfect fit for you in your early years.

Sylvia Scherer: 37:45

And as I as you say, that, somehow was the case a lot of times in my life, because also with the apprenticeship, I was lucky that my colleague went pregnant, and left the company and I had all of a sudden this huge responsibility. And the same in the consultancy, I think a lot of things in life are luck. There's a lot of luck in between, and then you have to be there, you have to use that opportunity.

Andy Follows: 38:12

Yeah, you have to be there and take the opportunity. But luck comes up as well. And I think it's great when we recognise the role it plays, it's good for our egos to recognise the luck that's involved

Sylvia Scherer: 38:24

exactly, there's too much ego in this world. But that's another topic.

Andy Follows: 38:29

So you said it was then slightly different a bit of a contrast when you went from the consultancy, or that particular business which had been growing fast. And you'd been a key player in that and enjoying the autonomy and the responsibility to then being in a larger corporate. So how did that transition happen? And what was your decision making process for getting into the large corporate,

Sylvia Scherer: 38:53

I was really happy in the consultancy. And I was never a corporate person. As you can imagine. It wasn't my dream to work in a corporate there. It's not that corporate is bad. It just wasn't in my mind so much. And then I had a partner at the time, who said to be employed in a corporate which has has its opportunities as well. So somehow this decision was based not only on my own, but also in this partnership, which on looking what I loved most parts of working with BMW with with all the opportunities but besides from look, being BMW and I wouldn't base my choices, job wise, too much on a partnership in the early years, at the time, we didn't we went together a long time. So yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is you need to find out what you really want and discuss it then with your partner. And maybe you that's an iterative process, but you're partner shouldn't have, you know, 80% of the choice making there.

Andy Follows: 40:04

Okay, I think that's, I love that point about some work only we can do. We cannot outsource some of this, some of this thinking and reflection hard yards of working out who we are and what we want.

Sylvia Scherer: 40:21

He probably wouldn't. If you asked him now, he probably wouldn't see it that way. But for me, it was. Yeah, I probably tried to keep that partnership alive. And yeah,

Andy Follows: 40:33

yeah. So you, you did it for slightly different reasons than you would do. Now. But and that's, we do what we do at the time, it's just for me the point that there's some work that just we have to do on ourselves. And until we've done it, we won't have the clarity, and we won't be able to make the best decisions.

Sylvia Scherer: 40:54

And it's important when you talk of clarity, because that's one of my focus topics, clarity, not only for one job, but clarity, in terms of what is really important for me in my life. Where do I want to go? What do I want to say when I'm 77? All these things? I wish today, I wished I knew that long before I really did, and would have made some choices easier and probably different. But well, don't look back too much. doesn't help at all.

Andy Follows: 41:27

So there was some external influence your partner at the time influenced your decision to join BMW? And how did you get the actual position? And what was the position? What were you doing?

Sylvia Scherer: 41:40

I was working at the time as a consultant for BMW Financial Services. And the boss of the department came to me I remember that is so funny, because she wrote me an email and said, Can we talk the next day or like in a couple of days, and I said to my partner, oh, my gosh, you know, troubling myself inside. Oh, my gosh, she wants to talk to me. Maybe I'm not good enough, you know, impostor. times 10.

Andy Follows: 42:07

I'm nodding, totally empathise with that.

Sylvia Scherer: 42:10

It's horrible. You know the funny thing is my partner at the time was the most, you know, he was very convinced of himself. So for him in his mind, and his world that was like, this is going to be a huge opportunity. She's gonna offer you a job. Like, he knew, like he was on the total different spectrums. And I Yeah, and she offered me the job then. And yeah, I changed very quickly. I was very direct with the founder of the consultancy, which I got along very well with. And I said to him, she wants me to be there in two weeks time. And I had like three months notice for like, leaving the consultancy. And he looked at me and said, Okay, if that's your way, that's your way, I'm not going to be in the way. And he was really great. And I like within two weeks time I changed my job.

Andy Follows: 43:03

Wow, that's very supportive of him. Did he try to dissuade you or did he

Sylvia Scherer: 43:09

not? He was so supportive, we are still in contact. We he was so supportive, as a person, to me, at least I don't know how he wants to others. He had an entrepreneurial spirit. He wanted people to thrive, at least how I saw him. I don't know what others say. I learned a lot from him.

Andy Follows: 43:27

I like the sound of him. Would you like to name him?

Sylvia Scherer: 43:30

Ego Bonachichz. He was from Croatia.

Andy Follows: 43:35

Okay, we like to celebrate good leadership. Yes, on this show. So we like to name those people who've helped and demonstrated it.

Sylvia Scherer: 43:43

And my my primary school teacher was Elizabeth Schultz. And she probably won't hear that.

Andy Follows: 43:50

Okay, so you made the transition very quickly from the consulting company. Two weeks later, you find yourself in BMW with people you already were working with.

Sylvia Scherer: 44:00

I changed in the department where I was a consultant before.

Andy Follows: 44:04

Okay, so there was some consistency. There, you're building on some existing relationships? Can you remember what it was like that first when you went from being the consultant coming in to all of a sudden being part of the machine?

Sylvia Scherer: 44:17

So I had, I was in contact with HR to get the final contract done. And I thought, I'm going to be very bold. So I went to HR, and I was negotiating, and she said, We can do that amount more, but nothing else. And that was on hindsight, stupid for me to give in. Because I should have negotiated more. I learned a lot as a woman, negotiate more. Always, if you think that's fine, it's not fine. It must be more.

Andy Follows: 44:49

Okay, that's really interesting and valuable for other people. So how would you have approached that now because it's all I think we often underestimate how much we have to hold each other's hands between telling someone what the concept is. Negotiate more. And okay, what does that mean? What does that look like? So how would you do it now,

Sylvia Scherer: 45:11

I was a total different person. And because I also had a different mindset to money, for me money today is something you can create with, you can create positive in this world at the time, money was something it wasn't really important to me. And looking back, I would have thought beforehand what is actually my value here, you have to have an inner value, which is not negotiable. And as they asked me, and I didn't even consider it beforehand, I would value myself differently. If we talked about imposter. It's not good. It's because on hindsight, you will always think, oh, gosh, I should have negotiated more, I sold myself under value. And that doesn't give a good feeling not to you and and also has an impact on your performance. That's why I say also, when I work with entrepreneurs today, make a realistic salary to your employees. If people compare if they find out whatever, and they feel undervalued or underpaid, it's not good for anyone.

Andy Follows: 46:13

So it starts with mindset

Sylvia Scherer: 46:15

,yes, and your own value. Obviously,an employer will not give you much like too much. He will rather calculate it down. So you must know, every one of us must know what he's worth. Like, what what his value or her value is Right? Looking back at 20 or 25 years. It's a cliche, but men normally are better in that than women. I have a lot of female friends who are like, yeah, it's still fine. It's about the topic. It's not about me. It's not no, it's about you, because it's your life.

Andy Follows: 46:47

It's really interesting. It's very hard to sell ourselves. And in that job conversation, you are selling yourself. But you're having a negotiation with an organisation which has a system which has guidelines, it has spreadsheets, it has things it can use to support its arguments, if you like that are harder somehow and less personal than your situation. So it's a difficult one. And I don't think I mean, BMW is not unusual in behaving like that. So I don't think we're, we're doing them a disservice when we mentioned that, yeah, that you had a tough negotiation, or you had a fairly straightforward negotiation as far as what the salary was going to be or the package.

Sylvia Scherer: 47:28

Yeah, and I guess also it like, if your self worth is solid, then you can reach a lot more, you can achieve a lot more then playing the imposter. That's really important. Looking back. And still today, I there's a lot of young people around me, and I always tell them, you know, you have to know what you yourself are worth yourself because you have only one life. And it's hard.

Andy Follows: 47:54

So true. And again, that requires a little bit of effort from the individual, only the individual can do that work. Yes. So how long were you at BMW

Sylvia Scherer: 48:04

11 years?

Andy Follows: 48:05

So you had the salary negotiation? You accepted that and you started in the department that you were familiar with consulting to? How was it being on the other side? What did you gain from being on the inside? And what did you perhaps lose?

Sylvia Scherer: 48:21

That's a good question. Because obviously, it depends on the people you work with. It could have been totally different if I was in another department. I didn't have much time to think about that, really, because I think after six or seven months already Kirk, who you know, was the CEO at BMW Financial Services, China at the time. I knew him from a former project where I was a consultant. And he was in Germany. He asked me for lunch lunch. And he said, Sylvia, I've got this job open in China as the head of strategy. Would you want to come? And I said, I said straightforward. No. Funny, you have to ask him how he remembers that. But he was very persistent. He said, You are the perfect person for the job. Also trust. He had a lot of trust in us because I had never done something like that. I always said to him, let me let me think another two weeks. And after like six weeks, he called and he said Sylvia it's now enough time thinking, you have to make a decision.

Andy Follows: 49:32

I can hear him saying that

Sylvia Scherer: 49:33

And because he was this quiet person. And he's really solid in his decisions, which I learned from him. But I was like, I was totally overwhelmed. And then I made the decision. And very quickly, I think after one year or so one and a half years, I joined BMW Financial Services China in Beijing.

Andy Follows: 49:53

so after six weeks of deliberating, he calls you again. And he says OK enough thinking time Sylvia

Sylvia Scherer: 50:00

Yeah, make a decision.

Andy Follows: 50:03

And so what was it about that that flipped you to say Yeah, okay, I'm coming.

Sylvia Scherer: 50:08

I think pressure, because if I don't make a choice now it's done. Yeah, I had travelled a lot in Asia before in the years before. And I said ok well China might not be so much different. And then I make the decision. And I went to a friend of mine who I travelled with a lot in China, in Asia, and she said, Oh, my gosh, China is so different than any other Asian country. And I was, Oh, my God, I made the decision. Now I have to go. Yeah. And it was one of the best times of my life.

Andy Follows: 50:40

In what ways? I mean, you're well out of the village by now. You're well out of the village,

Sylvia Scherer: 50:46

like, how many inhabitants are in Beijing is like 10 million or so? Basically, probably because I had the chance in a corporate to build something new. Because there was no strategy department, I was somehow the head of strategy, whatever that meant, because there were no people. And like, literally, Kirk said to me, here, you've got budget, get yourself some employees, do what you think is necessary. And I had, you know, the consultant, Adrian worked with us for the strategy development. And we had the best time like the Chinese people asked so much, you know, we get that done. There is no like hesitating, there's no like it doesn't work. It works. As a German, I said, there, a lot of times I said, this is not going to work. This is never going to work. No, we can't get that through. And it worked. Everything, like everything we did. It was a crazy time. Obviously, at the time, China was different. It was a growing market. Having the responsibility for strategy at that time was huge for me, like being able to creatively create something in a corporate was great. You don't have that chance a lot of times in your life.

Andy Follows: 52:02

No. And similar to your early years in the consultancy, where you had more freedom, more autonomy on a next scale, you know, the next level? Because obviously the size of the opportunity,

Sylvia Scherer: 52:13

it's funny through talking with you I see the red line, or how do you say like the [German] in German,

Andy Follows: 52:18

we say red line, there's a red line, and I look for the red. I love the red line in these conversations. And I'm delighted that you're spotting it

Sylvia Scherer: 52:27

You know, what we probably need to emphasise is that if people trust you, and if you trust people, there's so much more possible. Like, where would I have gotten if Ego didn't trust me if Kirk didn't trust me, even in the in the apprenticeship, if my boss[Name] that's his name, didn't trust, like they all had a trust that I would work out fine. Like I, I would create something out of the their trust in me. And that's important. And I try to give that back to people I work with. Because I see a lot of potential so much potential and people and we don't use it. And we need people to encourage and to empower other people and to be role models. Yeah, yeah, coming back to China, I was, I remember maybe maybe one sentence, because so these little things you remember from those times, as Kirk said to me, we're gonna have an introduction of the whole strategy to all people, most like 150 at the time at BMW Financial Services, China, and you're gonna organise the event and you know, guide or lead through that event, meaning also I have to, I had to speak today when I am on stages, talking to people. But at the time, I didn't, I didn't have experience in anything like talking to so many people in one room. And I remember talking to Adrian, I said, How to how do I do that? Like, how should I stand in front of all these people? And what should I say? He gave me some advice. And it wasn't, you know, I stood in front of the all these people. And I was totally overwhelmed. I wasn't probably good at the time. But it was a huge learning because you have to make the steps you have to get out of your comfort zone. Probably everyone says that. But you know that it's really important to get out of your comfort zone, because that's the Learning Zone. And all of a sudden, you know, the Chinese colleagues after that event came to me and said, Sylvia, we have this huge all employees event with 2000 people in the audience. And we want you as a host because I was the quota. I was like, We need a Western woman because they had like a Chinese woman, a western man and a Chinese man and they were looking for western woman. So I don't know if they asked me because of my competence, but rather than being a Western woman, although it was a chance, it was an opportunity. So I that event also to I entered something in me because when I stood in front of the 2000 people, I looked in the audience and I had so much joy in them having the joy of their life because it was a great funny event with a lot of singing and performance from the Chinese colleagues. And I remember that moment so vividly, because that's when I thought, I want to be a person who brings joy to other people, to make them feel more. And this event also had a lot of impact going, like for my next steps, so

Andy Follows: 55:33

that 2000 person event How did that then have an impact on what happened next,

Sylvia Scherer: 55:39

I have to make this circle again, back to my childhood, because when I was very little, maybe around four or five, I loved Michael Jackson. And I performed the moonwalk on the terrace of my parents house for the neighbours. And somehow that I hid that part of me as a performer or like stage person, because it somehow wasn't appreciated, I felt it wasn't appreciated. So being on that stage, and somehow performing, although I was only the host, I was not a you know, a dancer or singer at the time. But being the host being onstage looking into the audience and feeling this joy for a lot of people. And this is emotions in a lot of people. I said, Maybe I should go on stage more. Not because of me, it's all a bit of you know, every one of us has ego, but bringing more emotions to people. It's not always about joy. It's about letting, people feel. And that's what I also do today with when I'm on stage doing a keynote. It's all about emotions. In one way or the other. It's not always joy, it also sometimes reflecting on sad parts. Because I think that emotions play a big part in the business world as well. We come from a time where emotions have to be hidden. And they are never hidden. They sneak in. And they come out very badly. If they have been forced to be caged in, you can't cage your emotions they will come out one way or the other. That's a that's a huge jump. No.

Andy Follows: 57:09

It's marvellous. And I love how that time on stage with all those people and the performers and seeing that the audience experiencing feelings and you having the space at the time, somehow having enough control over yourself in the situation to notice hang on a minute, these people are really enjoying, they're getting good feelings from this and then that unlocking something from your five year old self that you had compartmentalise it, okay, we're not going to use that going forward, because this isn't doesn't seem to be appreciated. But then it finally being unlocking and a little bit more of you being able to come to the party.

Sylvia Scherer: 57:47

Definitely. I was remembering something else. Sometimes when I tell the story. It's a bit weird, because it's not about bragging. It's somehow it had an impact on me. Because when I was working with Kirk and the strategy department, the head of China came to me from whole China. And he said he's got a project, he wants to be done like a huge project overall for China. I can't mention the details. But it was like a board project. Even the German like the BMW board was looking at that. And that's again, that's funny. It's again, trust. I didn't even know him. Well. And he had heard that I probably did good work. So he came and I said at that time, I said, Okay, I'm going to do that. And I had this huge project with 35 people in my as, like doing the project, I was the head of the whole project. And there were also sub project leads, which are more like which were on a higher level than me in the BMW terms. And I had to guide these people towards this whole project goal. And one time, it was a Saturday, I was asked in to give the project status to the German board. It was Ian and guess it was [name] at the time. That was the first time I met those people. I remember sitting in front of that meeting room. There was a lot of other topics covered as well. During that day. When I was asked in, I presented them the status of the project. And then I was finished and [name] said to me, great work. That's the only thing he said and I that's how I think really, it's not about bragging I said, I have a great team. We are a great team here. And I think what he told me afterwards, that was a great sentence because it wasn't about me. I wouldn't be able to do this stuff without them because I was just just but the project lead and I like that was a moment also for me because I thought that's great people. There's like when you get together and and you can create much more than you can alone. Yeah, there was a great experience because well when Do you have that then in front of the board of a corporate, you can have an experience like that

Andy Follows: 1:00:06

Incredible. And such a vivid memory for you and learning, the key learning moment that would serve you or will continue to serve you going forward.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:00:17

I think also one sentence to that community or that being an A team, coming back to me as a child, belonging gives you so much power. If you belong to a team, if you belong to a community, there's so much more power in yourself compared to when you're alone.

Andy Follows: 1:00:37

Is that do you think we met in China?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:00:40

Yes.

Andy Follows: 1:00:40

Do you think that was the first time that we met, I know, we did meet in China, but I wasn't sure if that was the first time.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:00:46

You know, when that was, um, it comes back to the trust thing. That's when Alan who knew me for through Kirk, Alan asked me to facilitate the two CEO conferences in Hong Kong and Malaysia. And I flew in and I facilitated your conferences. That's why I met all the CEOs from Asia, which was like a great exposure.

Andy Follows: 1:01:08

And then there was a separate time, because I came on my own in January 2014, on my way to Munich

Sylvia Scherer: 1:01:15

That was also life changing, because you were giving us a training on authentic leadership. I probably wasn't even really invited. But I said, to whoever I want to participate with, because that sounds great. Because that was something I was missing. Because a lot of people have the masks on in business, had their masks on at the time, is not about BMW, it's about it in general in the business world. So I wanted to take part, I remember that, and it was eye opening to me how you talked about authentic leadership? I still have, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, I still have the documents. I took them. I stole them.

Andy Follows: 1:01:58

What more could I ask for?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:02:02

It was so great, because I felt understood. I felt that my way of seeing the world being more authentic, is shared by you. And that was that made the difference? But that's not the I was not alone. With my view of the world. There was all of a sudden, someone who talked about a thing where I said, Yes, cool, I'm not stupid.

Andy Follows: 1:02:27

Or we're both stupid. But you said just now it's about belonging. At least you weren't alone

Sylvia Scherer: 1:02:38

Well, it's rather be together stupid.

Andy Follows: 1:02:43

So that's wonderful to hear. And it was a very important part in my journey, which I have shared a little bit about it on one of my episodes. So let's go then from there, to. Did you just run to the end of your term in China? Was there something drawing you back? What was the reason to go

Sylvia Scherer: 1:03:01

I think I postponed a few times. I spent back? the three years in total. And I went back. Yeah. And that was that was really a change, going from everything is possible China, to we haven't done it that way. German bureaucracy, we have always done it like I asked for a job in sustainability, because obviously China wasn't very sustainable at the times. So I thought if I stay in corporate, I want to do something for in terms of sustainability. And luckily, as a corporate BMW was able to offer in a job in sustainability strategy. [name] I had an interview with [name] who was then head of strategy at the time. It was an interesting conversation, which I'm not going to dive into. What you can learn from him is really firm and his what he says. And he's really clear, and I appreciate that very much. And he gave me the opportunity. He gave his yes to my then boss. At the head of sustainability strategy. He was her boss. And he wanted to get to know me because he wanted he wanted to see every person who was employed at the time. He wanted to have a word in the employment of team members. And there was there was a great meeting within 45 minutes, I will always remember he remember so I wrote him when I left BMW. I wrote him an email especially and he wrote me like a few sentences that he quite remembered. So there's always things you can say about people, but I appreciate it. A lot talking to him. Because you when you see the CEO of a company like he was then not CEO, but he's now very clear, very firm in decisions. I learned from him that you have to make decisions and you have to decide.

Andy Follows: 1:04:53

So that's come up a couple of times, because you also mentioned Kirk, was very decisive. I know you started the Culture Movement. what point did you decide to do that? And it all makes a lot of sense. Having heard what we've heard so far, is that something to talk about now?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:05:10

Sure. Because it that, again changed a lot. Because when I came back from China where I had all the responsibility that was possible from from Kirk and his successor, I came back to a very bureaucratic corporate headquarters. I remember going into the office of my boss, and she said to me, Miss Scherer, I've got a 17 Euro invoice here from you for petrol. Could you explain? it's not about, you know, being bad or talking bad about her. I felt very controlled all of a sudden, where I had responsibility for, let's call it like huge numbers in China. And that was it was in January 2015, I remember quite vividly, and I went back to my desks. And that's that was the start of a journey where I thought, this is really crazy. Yeah, and I tried to fit in, somehow, but I couldn't anymore. There was no way after having seen how things work, can work and China, I obviously wasn't able to fit in a corporate headquarters way, which has a good and a bad side. So after a few months, I looked around for people belonging, to see if there are others as stupid as I am. In thinking we can think we can do things differently. And luckily, I met a colleague of mine [name] after a few lunches and coffees, and he said, he's he makes these internal keynotes about culture and transformation. I said, culture, corporate culture what's that, because I came from strategy, I wasn't an HR person. So we talked a bit. And then I remember sitting in the cafeteria of the of the BMW headquarters, the four cylinder, and we were getting really quiet. We were whispering because we we had we were afraid that anyone could hear us because we were thinking like, we were talking about change this, this culture, maybe how does that how can we do that. And we felt like I felt like a spy at the time. But we obviously we had a great goal, because we wanted to make the company successful. So yeah, we had this vision to create or like CO create this transformation together with you know, the, the official people. And we found it a movement, which is which was called Connected Culture Club, where a connected community team, we wanted to bring together people who want to create the culture

Andy Follows: 1:07:41

Wonderful. And you must have had some support for of the company. And all of a sudden, there were like, 50 people in a working team, and then three and a half 1000 on the enterprise social network following us and supporting our vision. And there was a like, I think four years movement within the within BMW and also other corporates, asking for keynotes from us or asking to work with us. Yeah. And it was a great time was even in the press. And there was so like, someone mentioned us in a book about culture. We had the BMW Museum, having within their sustainability exhibition, one area only for the Connected Culture Club. Now, when you when you think back there wasn't like we had a huge event where we showed a movie, which was called the Quiet Revolution, about you know, transformation, we had two times 500 People in the BMW Fitz. Building. And it was like people, we I have a video of interviews after the event where people said how, what an impact it made on them. I think together, we created something that. To be able to get those venues, get that space in the really great, because it moved people. There were emotions involved I'd say that. museum, show those movies, how were you getting the level of support you would need to progress? Something as entrepreneurial and impactful as that?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:09:17

It's funny you say that? Because it reminds me of the lunch dates I did when I was an intern. I used the network somehow, I guess, because I knew a lot of people and a lot of people I grew up with at BMW made their way to like higher positions with budget and stuff. So yeah, we got venues, we got budget. And I was lucky that Mr [name] at the time board member [name] was a great person as well. He was kind of like a mentor to me. I had several one on ones with him in his office where I could be like I was really honest to him at the time. so funny because you think I have to tell these guys how it really is. And probably he doesn't know. And I came with all, you know, these, these feelings I had about the company and about the culture. And I was like totally enthusiastic. And he looked, he just looked at me said, I know, I was so frustrated because he also he was one of the great people who wanted to support the transformation. Before he went on, He's now retired, or you probably, you know, something different. But for BMW at the time he retired and, and he was kind of I saw him as a mentor. And having these great people in these positions is of course, helpful.

Andy Follows: 1:10:46

This is phenomenal Sylvia, you're dropping so many wonderful topics, the mentoring, the networking, the fact that Oh, wow, so those those lunches that you had that, I know, you said you did it, but I really am not going to do that I don't see the value in it, and then all of a sudden, boom, you are able to start a movement within the organisation. And partially that was because you had a network. So if you needed a why, for networking, for having lunches with different people, then here's a really big why for doing that. Yes. Wonderful. And then the mentoring, you know, we've talked about how important it is to get the support of people around you and your circle of friends and mentors are so important, as well. And we've heard firsthand. Now you've had a very good mentor, senior level board member is

Sylvia Scherer: 1:11:43

like, the funny thing is that started in China, when he saw me during that presentation I did where I lead the product. It's also luck is not about one person, it's about being on the right spot to the right time. And using the opportunity, yes, and and that's also, I try when I work with customers, or coaches and that point, I want to make them visible just this morning before we started our podcast, I had one former client and she said she is asked to deliver a keynote in an event. And I said, I come and join, and I make photos. And we're going to present that on LinkedIn. Because there's so that she's not a LinkedIn person. Or like in any way she she just does great work. And she doesn't. For me, she doesn't talk enough about it. So like making people visible, important.

Andy Follows: 1:12:37

Yeah, she just does great work. And it's not enough. These days, you have to have content, and distribution. Yes. And if you're not getting the distribution, it doesn't matter how good your content is. So honestly, as you're describing your situation, when you came back to the headquarters from China, there's an aspect of you, which has been unlocked, it was unlocked at an early age. And it was definitely unlocked when you were in the consultancy. And in China, where you had autonomy, you had people trusting you, and you were rewarding that trust you were doing everything you could to live up to that trust, which is what happens with the right people, if you trust them, they will do their utmost to deserve your trust and to pay you back if you like. So you had unlocked this side or this aspect of you. And then you came back into a much more controlling environment, which corporate headquarters typically are. And you came up with a way to deal with this and to seek ways to make life better for everyone. And what will be a something I could do Connected Culture Club was amazing. So why did you leave? When did you run out of wanting to stay? Or what was the story behind you leaving and doing what you're doing now?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:13:57

As it just described what I was talking about, there's one thing probably which needs to be mentioned. Of course, there were a lot of troubling times for me, also, me being not very good to people around me at BMW, not many, but there were several people, I would treat this conversations or these these encounters differently today. And at the time, I wasn't that clear about myself. With today's knowledge, I would communicate more I would be very open very honest, very real, to let them decide if they want to follow. I was kind of rebelish at the time. Because what I didn't understand is that they saw the world differently. And there is no good or bad way to see the world. It was a different way of seeing the world. What I didn't do is explain them my vision of the world, which could lead to a better outcome for both of us or for like all of us. That's a big learning. I somehow wasn't honest all the time, or at least I didn't talk about it because I thought it was clear. I wanted to mention that because I stepped on the feet of some people, especially in higher positions, because I probably was behaving in a way I wouldn't behave today. Not bad, but just not being really honest.

Andy Follows: 1:15:21

So not as, let us just explore this, if we may. So not intentionally, badly, maybe not communicating as much as you would recognise now as necessary, in order to bring people with you.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:15:35

Yeah, I'm coming back to also like communicating things. Normally, I'm a very visionary person, I have big goals, and I want to, you know, achieve a lot for this world. At the time, I thought my visions are the visions, like, not in an arrogant way, just as I saw the world, and it was for me clear that we want to transform a company. And that's why we have to do our stuff. And we have to, like, get a lot of people on board. And that wasn't probably the vision that others had. And you have to get people on board by talking to them and listening, especially listening to other people and asking them what how they, how their vision is, and then find a common or like a mutual way. I didn't do that enough. I didn't communicate enough,

Andy Follows: 1:16:29

because of course, yours was not a top down vision, your your vision had emerged from within the organisation, and you were trying to attract followers from within the organisation without a mandate, really, without a position in the hierarchy, and so much harder job. And your vision was coming into conflict with other visions, presumably not just the top down vision, but also other visions that people had, who might have had similar ambition in the in the most sort of positive way of that, you know, positive ambitions for the company and for how things could be, and you are conflicting with some of those. And it sounds like you were quite forceful about this maybe or single minded about the vision. And now with hindsight, because we keep growing, hopefully, we keep growing, you can recognise ah no I could have been clever about that I could have listened more

Sylvia Scherer: 1:17:25

And what you find is that the people in the highest position being the board members, they have, they don't have so much trouble with it. Because in general, they most probably have a same vision because they want to progress the company. It's more about the, like the people in between the middle management people, not to like blame them, but they have probably also different aspects, which are important to them as a person. And you need all of the people you did I thought, okay, if the board members are happy, then we get that through. And it's, it was shocking to me, to be honest, that only because the board members wanted something that it doesn't mean that you will be successful. Because the company is not always top down. There are people who have different views and they must be heard.

Andy Follows: 1:18:22

What an incredible learning opportunity for you, I'm sure painful and came with its frustrations and sad times.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:18:30

That's why I left.

Andy Follows: 1:18:32

Okay, so talk me through that decision.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:18:35

Yeah, I guess that that would be another podcast, but make it short. 2020 was not only the year of the pandemic, but also for me personally very disturbing. Yeah. Because like when you have your life and pillars, let's say you know, friends, family, job, money, etc. And nearly all of the pillars crashed. Because my mother died that year. My friends weren't there like my friends at the time weren't there that much as I hope to. I lost a lot of money with the wire card scandal to be frank here. The job wasn't perfectly fitting because of all the problems that I just mentioned. The only thing I had left was my health, mentally and physically. And as everyone and then the pandemic gave me, personally a huge opportunity because the world went quiet. I went a year on a sabbatical, just did my thing. I left nearly every social surrounding I went in to the mountains a lot, thought felt whatever progress hopefully grew and decided to like give my life a transformation because like, I was always about transformation. So I thought I might just transform myself or my life as well. So I decided to leave. I made a video from the day I signed the resignation from the parking lot At the BMW, four cylinder, I, when you watch some maybe when I'm 70, I'm going to share this video. It's literally the how you think of these moments, because there was like a tear in one eye and the happy eye on the other side of the face. I knew this is now going to change a lot. Because I went through, I was self employed since 2018 As a coach, but that meant now, like leaving the show, like leaving the secure employment.

Andy Follows: 1:20:30

Wow. So do you made that video for yourself? Yes.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:20:35

Because when I'm 77, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch all these photos and videos.

Andy Follows: 1:20:39

It sounds like it illustrates the complexity of these decisions,

Sylvia Scherer: 1:20:45

It's a hard decision. That's why I can understand so many people who struggled with make decisions. Because it took me one year of being alone. I know what I'm talking about, been there done that.

Andy Follows: 1:21:01

I love it. And I love the fact that we had that six week story of Kirk saying you need to make a decision and this decision thing comes up. Yeah, decisions.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:21:13

I read a quote from a famous person the other day, and it says decisions can be either reversible, or non reversible. And you have to decide which kind of decision it is, then you think about it long or you think about it short. But don't take too much time on thinking about decisions just make one. I learned that also from the pandemic, because they had to decide very quickly,

Andy Follows: 1:21:35

and very interesting. So you're in the carpark, you've taken the video, you've got a tear in one eye and a smile on the other side and a sense of relief. And you've already set up your coaching business a couple of years before, but now you've left the security behind what happened, then how did you build up and how was it for you, once you were on your own?

Sylvia Scherer: 1:22:00

I like it, it's still the time, one of the times of my life because I'm free. I'm feeling free. Of course, obviously, I'm still in a system or several systems. But for me, it went always up, I grew my business very solidly. I'm not the person who like six figure salary within three months coaching is not my way of doing I want a solid business who has an impact, a positive impact on the world. Currently, I'm not aiming to have employees. Also maybe my sense of independence or freedom. But I want to I want to be useful. Somehow. Yeah, and I'm really happy with finding clients who value that and I work with incredible people because I you know, my in German, my slogan is [Germen} which literally translated companion for pioneers. And it rhymes perfectly in German. And working with people who go new ways who want to move something in this world towards the better together. I have a community and people around me which are doing great things. And I value that every appreciated every time. And from totally different areas, mostly from business. But now I currently have a an artist. And I'm looking at the politics in Germany, currently, I'm thinking maybe I should go and do coaching for politicians. There's a lot to do

Andy Follows: 1:23:41

a lot to do. So people who are pioneering people who are seeking to visionary want to create a transformation that's going to make the world a better place in some way, then you want to be their companion you You're there to support them on their journey and bring all of your your coaching skills and also your life experience, which we've heard so much about in the conversation, which we can see. So I can see it's so relevant to you, it would be so helpful, the things you've managed to achieve. And how would you like people to contact you? If having heard this, they're interested and they think, Oh, I could really I'd love to work with Sylvia.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:24:24

Just write me. I guess you put my email.

Andy Follows: 1:24:27

I will put your email address. We'll put your website we'll put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes to this episode, but the invitation is there listeners to contact Sylvia if you'd like to have a conversation about potentially,

Sylvia Scherer: 1:24:40

I'm very active on LinkedIn. We've got I think now three or 13,000 followers. I offer also 17 minutes one on one deep dive. And most of the times the person goes already out with some ideas and the link is on my website and also on my

Andy Follows: 1:25:00

So very easy step to take listeners to secure yourself a private conversation with Sylvia. So I hope people will take you up on that. It's been an absolute pleasure. So is there anything I haven't asked you, that means I might have missed out on yet another golden nugget.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:25:22

My vision

Andy Follows: 1:25:24

tell me your vision,

Sylvia Scherer: 1:25:25

I was just thinking. Because obviously as I do a lot of work with clients around values and vision as I just found out that one of my three values in life, which is realness, clarity, and community community is also my vision. My vision is a world where people work together to create this world a better place people coming together and do something for others. That's a huge thing for me. Belonging, coming back to the very beginning,

Andy Follows: 1:26:00

which is what I don't want to say anything else because that was a mic drop ending. Thank you so much. It's been, it's been an absolute treat.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:26:07

Thank you so much.

Andy Follows: 1:26:08

I get to know you better and two hours than in all the previous years that we've known each other. So thank you for joining me and sharing so openly.

Sylvia Scherer: 1:26:18

Thank you for the most wonderful questions.

Andy Follows: 1:26:26

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience, where you find yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Sylvia's story. Some elements that stood out for me were the image of Sylvia going door to door selling scissors as a little girl and her desire to be financially independent from an early age. Her feeling like there was more outside the village for her her desire to fit in causing her to allow her grades to slip, and leading to her hanging out with Hells Angels having an early interest in cars because her car represented a way out of the village, her apprenticeship in the champagne closures business and making international trips with the owner because the head of export went on maternity leave her autonomy at the consulting firm and the trust that was placed in her her decision to join BMW influenced by her partner at the time, Kirk Cordill inviting her to come to China and her again finding herself in a fast moving environment with the autonomy to make things happen. Moving back to Munich, and having to reintegrate into a more bureaucratic environment, establishing the Connected Culture Club, and recognising with hindsight how she could have better handled relationships with others who had conflicting visions, finally deciding to leave the complexity of emotions around that decision. Now growing her business to help pioneers who are looking to lead transformation for the good of others. If you'd like to connect with Sylvia, we'll put her contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone who lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Sylvia for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team, without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests' life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening