Michael Kreeft: Travelling the globe, leveraging his experience in automotive sales and financial services companies, navigating cultures and learning languages.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Michael Kreeft.

Michael recently retired from BMW after 37.5 years with the brand. He lived his first 32 years in the Netherlands, then started his international career with BMW in Germany and worked and lived over 22 years with BMW outside of the Netherlands That time was made up of 6.5 years in Germany, two stints of 4 years each in the UK, 4.5 years in France and 3 years in Japan.

He gained experience as CEO in the Netherlands and in France with BMW Financial Services as CFO for BMW's National sales companies in the Netherlands, UK and Japan and as a Financial manager in BMW Plant Oxford in the UK.

Michael loved his international experience and speaking languages to the extent that he is now fluent in Dutch, English, French and German as well as having a basic level of Spanish and Japanese.

He is currently ‘between jobs’ and enjoying spending his free time with family and being granddad. In due course he plans to set up his own company and become active as a coach, consultant, interim CFO and Non Executive Director.

In our conversation we talk about the de-integration of Rover Group from BMW, Brexit preparation, organising and hosting the European Soccer tournament for BMW FS employees in the Netherlands, moving to Japan during Covid and you'll hear a story that may cause you to quickly enrol on a first aid course.

My path had crossed with Michael's a few times during my time at BMW and I am delighted to have now had this opportunity for a deeper dive into his life and career story and to be able to share it here. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

Connect with Michael
LinkedIn: Michael Kreeft

Thank you to our sponsors:

ASKE Consulting
Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

Aquilae
Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk
Release the handbrake! - The Fulfilling Performance Hub

Episode Directory on Instagram @careerviewmirror 


If you enjoy listening to our guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app. 

Episode recorded on 11 March, 2024.

Transcript

Michael Kreeft: 0:00

There are people who go into an expat role. But generally it will take you like six months, maybe 12 months before you understand the country and the role and everything in detail. And then they work one year on improving things. And then the third year they are busy finding a new position. That's not who I am. And that's not what I ever wanted to be.

Aquilae Academy: 0:26

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy Follows: 0:58

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously joined me to create these episodes, so that we can celebrate their careers, listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Michael Kreeft. Michael recently retired from BMW after 37 and a half years with the brand. He lived his first 32 years in the Netherlands and started his international career with BMW in Germany and worked and lived over 22 years with BMW outside of the Netherlands. That time was made up of six and a half years in Germany, two stints of four years each in the UK, four and a half years in France and three years in Japan. He gained experience as CEO in the Netherlands and in France with BMW Financial Services as CFO for BMW national sales companies in the Netherlands, UK and Japan. And as a financial manager in BMW plant Oxford in the UK. Michael loved his international experience and speaking languages to the extent that he's now fluent in Dutch, English, French and German, as well as having a basic level of Spanish and Japanese. He's currently between jobs and enjoying spending his free time with family and being Grandad. In due course he plans to set up his own company and become active as a coach, consultant, interim CFO and non Executive Director. In our conversation we talk about the deintegration of Rover Group from BMW, Brexit preparations, organising and hosting the European soccer tournament for BMW Financial Services employees in the Netherlands, moving to Japan during COVID. And you'll hear a story that may cause you to quickly enrol on a first aid course. My path had crossed with Michael's a few times during my time at BMW, and I'm delighted to have now had this opportunity for a deeper dive into his life and career story and to be able to share it here. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time Hello, I'm Andy Follows I'm a trusted adviser to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance check out Release the Handbrake, the Fulfilling Performance Hub on Substack. We'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. Hello, Michael and welcome and where are you coming to us from today?

Michael Kreeft: 3:24

Hi Andy, well, I'm calling from [name] in the Netherlands. That's a very tiny village in between the Hague and Amsterdam.

Andy Follows: 3:34

Well, thank you very much for joining me, I'm sure we'll hear that you have been on your travels. That's correct. You've been away for some time before coming back to the Netherlands. But as with all my guests, I'd like to start with the very beginning of your journey. Where were you born?

Michael Kreeft: 3:48

Born in the Netherlands as well in a town called [name]

Andy Follows: 3:54

OK and I always like to explore I find it fascinating. And I've said a number of times we don't get to choose where we're born or the families were born into. So the hand that we're dealt, so to speak. Tell me that about your family when you were growing up? What did your mom and dad do, for example? And did you have brothers and sisters?

Michael Kreeft: 4:13

My family's not that big. So I have two elder brothers. One is five years older than I am and the other one is six years older than I am. Mom and Dad were coming from you could say, simple families where my dad, funnily enough, had an education to become a priest. But luckily for me, that didn't happen because otherwise I would not have been born in this world. But yeah, when he finished his education, he he kind of decided that, you know, going out in the world and going to Africa to convert people there was not what he really wanted to do. And He then joined the Dutch army for a couple of years. And after that started a career in real estate, and that's where he did his work all his life. My mom comes from a family of 10 people, so quite 10 siblings, so big, big farming family. Wow, she is 95 years old and still has a sister of 96 year old alive. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, my dad sadly away, passed away in 2016 92 years old. And he was, he was a very well educated person. Of course, he's spoke a couple of languages. Latin naturally, because of the the education as a priest, but also French, English, a little bit of German. So I think maybe that's where, what gave me also some good genes to learn languages. And we're sure we're going to talk about that later on.

Andy Follows: 6:08

Well the genes I was thinking with your both your parents living to a ripe old age that that's good genetically suggests good genes for you. And your your future. I'm also curious because to go from thinking you might be a priest to joining the army is that's quite a shift, was, the Army a national service type thing was that

Michael Kreeft: 6:29

Well it was just after the after the Second Second World War. And you know, that the education as a priest was basically mostly paid for. And when he decided not to conclude in that direction, his father who was in the in the Navy kind of decided, okay, well, then, you know, you need to do something to earn your own money. And this might be a route for you. So that's, that's, I think, then how we how he got into it. But again, then after this, two years to three years in the Army decided that, yeah, going back to normal civil job would be more the thing for him.

Andy Follows: 7:13

Right. So when you knew him, he was working in real estate.

Michael Kreeft: 7:17

Yeah, yeah. Always. Again, funny. Funny. No, there, we never, he never bought his own house. So which I think is quite surprising. And probably one of the few real estate agents that that never owned his own house.

Andy Follows: 7:32

Yeah. It's fascinating. Did he have strong reason for that? Or was it

Michael Kreeft: 7:37

I think, my father was not really a big risk taker. So, you know, having having debts was financial debts was not really big in his family, and also not big in my mom's family. And, yeah, I've had to, as I said, I have two brothers, and one of the brothers unfortunately, got polio when he was only six months old. So they had to spend a lot of time and money, also for his health and training and cetera. So I think that was that was their main focus, you know, raising a family that where everybody was able to achieve the things that that they wanted to do and not so much focused on, you know, buying a house and maybe making making money out of that was not, not not their career

Andy Follows: 8:26

Not the priority. And what about your mom? Did she work or she homemaker?

Michael Kreeft: 8:33

She was what they now call, I think, at[name] a traditional housewife. Now, she always took care of us as a family. That was always lovely, you know, to, you know, to come home after school and your mom's there and making your cup of tea and maybe some sandwiches and things like that. So yeah.

Andy Follows: 8:56

Excellent. So let's talk about school if we can Michael, what how would your teachers have described you?

Michael Kreeft: 9:05

I was always the, I think, probably a very, very polite student, well behaved, very concentrating on things and not not the party boy in the class, for sure. Okay, it's changed over the years a little bit, but especially when my first I would say Grammar School was quite quite I had my nursery school was with the nuns. So they're also quite strict. And I think you know, these kinds of things, like they kind of stick to you. So

Andy Follows: 9:39

yeah, so talking about things sticking to you what, what sort of behaviours were you demonstrating there? Or what did you pick up from the nuns for example, or from that school environment that you think you've carried with you?

Michael Kreeft: 9:52

I think respect for people for older people, respect for people who hold certain functions, whether that's the doctors, policemen, people who you know work in to serve other people, I've always had a high respect for them and always treated these persons as well with respect.

Andy Follows: 10:19

Right. So we know you were not a troublemaker at school, you're a polite young man. And in terms of the subjects that you studied there, when did you start to find areas that you were more interested in? Or did you find areas you are more interested over time?

Michael Kreeft: 10:38

Yeah, I think when I was like 12 13 years old, I started developing an interest in in languages. So of course, in that time, grammar school, you only learned Dutch. And then when you went further on in the education, English, German, French, were kind of mandatory subjects. I always liked history and geography. Not so much the mathematics, but that was also something that Yeah, after some time, I found numbers also, much more interesting. But I think, yeah, I would say pretty basic education, where, you know, which would offer you a lot of a lot of opportunities, I didn't really have a career view of things that I wanted to do, there was one thing that I knew that I didn't want to do. And that was the same thing as my dad, because he had as real estate agents, quite a lot of work. Also, in the evenings, lots of people come calling completely different times, of course, where you know, you have to visit the office or call people, because nothing happened online at that time. So people had to work in a completely different way. And I had a very good relationship and still have with my mom, that's really good relationship with my parents and also with my brothers. But I thought that sometimes it wasn't a bit pity that my dad was working so hard in the evenings, and maybe, you know, something that I did myself then later on, so and

Andy Follows: 12:17

so you did fall into that, even though you

Michael Kreeft: 12:21

Yeah I think I think I fell in some traps that, you know, the beginning of your career, you think I'm never going to do that. And then sometimes things go a completely different way. I think there's positions or times when you don't, you don't really see it, but then only when you look back. Or, you know, you have someone that tells you then you start realising. Oh, yeah, they should have done maybe something differently.

Andy Follows: 12:45

Yeah. With the benefit of hindsight yes, absolutely. So quite a general an interest in languages, history. So the art subjects not not really leaning towards maths in those earlier days. As you were coming towards the end of school, what sort of thoughts were you having about career?

Michael Kreeft: 13:05

Nothing, nothing really, in particular, what I did want it to do, I liked economics. So I went to a bachelor education for business economics. And that really, really started appealing to me and to see more into a career of management and business business economics. And that's also where I think I personally changed a little bit from being maybe what other people would say. very dull person to a more having more fun during during education, going out enjoying more to go to sports activities or sport matches and yeah, I think it was a different different phase in my in my life.

Andy Follows: 13:52

So some different aspects coming in to play

Michael Kreeft: 13:56

Definitely. Some would say you're finally finally growing up, but

Andy Follows: 14:02

no, that's fair. That's fair. You're not the first guest to blossom. Once they got out it, did you leave home to go to university?

Michael Kreeft: 14:11

No at the beginning of stay stayed at home, it was quite difficult to find a space and I didn't didn't have a job at that time. So so now I studied, I still lived at home but study then at The Hague University.

Andy Follows: 14:26

And then when you came out of university, what were your options and how did you go about finding your first role?

Michael Kreeft: 14:32

there was still in that time, the the obligation to go and do and fulfil your military duties. And normally, you know that when you have two brothers two older brothers, the third one didn't have to do that. But with my second brother having this disability from polio, I had to join the army and honestly, it was it was a good time as well. I really, really liked the 14 month that I spent in the army got a career little bit of a career education to become a sergeant and worked in the in the in the financial admin part.

Andy Follows: 15:14

First steps into the finance department. Are there any things that you remember from your time in the army that have stayed with you behaviours you picked up then or ideas.

Michael Kreeft: 15:28

I think I developed even further interest in sports, because, you know, you had to really liked it, like physical part that we had in the army to really become to become fit the exercises, the marches, really was something that I liked and I also like the camaraderie, you know, the the working together with people trying to achieve the same goals. Yeah, that really also was stick to me.

Andy Follows: 15:55

And then after you finish that period in the army, what happened next?

Michael Kreeft: 16:00

Yeah, well, there was an opportunity, or I saw an advertisement from from KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, looking for people to start a career with them, and with a kind of a trainee programme for almost two years. And I applied for that. And I was lucky enough to get into into the programme.

Andy Follows: 16:24

So a graduate recruitment programme.

Michael Kreeft: 16:27

Yeah. And really, you know, with a lot of opportunities, lots of insights, giving you different roles, different jobs. Yeah, it was not that far away. I mean, KLM, at that time, was the head office has always been in near Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. But they had a bigger admin department and for passengers and freight in The Hague, that also happened to be in [place], which was still where I lived, so quite convenient, and gave me again, my first steps into the real business world. Now,

Andy Follows: 17:02

I'm sure KLM when they were selecting people for that programme, were hoping they would stay with them and build a career. I know, that didn't happen for you. So what, what made you leave there?

Michael Kreeft: 17:13

You know, it was a great programme to see inside of KLM. And to learn a lot about the airline industry. I think one of the best things that have happened to me was that, that I met my wife there, she was working in the same department. But when I moved from [place] to the head office in Amsterdam I also noticed that in KLM, they had kind of a, say, different career plans from depending on the kind of education you had. I said, Why, and I don't want to have my education, decide over my career plan, I want to be, you know, the person that decides myself. And I wanted to do a master Master study, in my own time next to my job. And the KLM didn't facilitate it. So that was, for me, the reason that I suppose you know, if you're not facilitating that, I'm going to look for a company that will facilitate that. And then again, just by coincidence, so a an advertisement from BMW, and went for the interview, had a really good connection with the person and joined BMW in 1986.

Andy Follows: 18:26

Right. So quite a substantial career then was about to commence when you joined BMW,

Michael Kreeft: 18:34

of course, you don't know that when you just start with a company I was it was just over two and a half years with KLM. And BMW in 1986, had just been taken over from BMW AG, the private importer had just sold his business to BMW, the office was still in the centre of the Hague. And of course, BMW in that time, was only selling threes five, six and seven series so completely, yeah, of course, motorcycles and boat engines not to forget. But yeah, completely different company than, than what it is, is today.

Andy Follows: 19:10

So you've had a, as we say, a very long and fruitful international career with BMW. If you think back, what are some of the key points for you the key moments, the key stories, if you like, Michael from during your journey? I

Michael Kreeft: 19:26

I think Andy, I think it starts, you know, getting into the company and the feeling that you get with it and the connection that you have with the people that work there. And then, you know, having spent a couple of years with BMW in the Netherlands, we moved into a new head office in [place], which, funnily enough was only less than two kilometres away from where I was born. So it felt like coming home, it's really funny. The first let's say, 32 years of my life I was living like maybe a circle of 10 kilometres away from where I was born. And in 1992, that that all changed when I decided to go to Munich with my family and, and that time then took it.

Andy Follows: 20:12

Yeah, let's talk about that. So that was you had been working in the company for a few years in the Netherlands? How did you get the opportunity to go to Munich? Were you pushing for that? Or was that presented to you? How did that happen?

Michael Kreeft: 20:24

Well, the thing that I said before I wanted to do this master Education, Business Economics. I did. And I got this opportunity with BMW, so that the evening studies and finished that and you know, by doing that specific education, people in Munich also noticed that and thought that person might be, yeah, might be someone maybe to get in closer to head office. And let's now let's see how it works. BMW didn't have an international department at that time. The HR persons didn't really know what to do with this strange guy that came from the Netherlands. And, you know, you had to find your own house and everything and sort everything out. And BMW was not an international company at that time. 1992. The two languages that were spoken were German and Bavarian.

Andy Follows: 21:24

And did you already speak some German though, because you'd done languages?

Michael Kreeft: 21:27

Yeah, my German was pretty, pretty good. I think from 14 15 years old, I got into windsurfing. And one of the best wind surfing magazines was a German magazine. So I read that every month. And on Dutch television, you have the programmes, most of the time in the original language, with subtitles, which also helps to develop your language. And as I always said, you know, during my school time, I also did six years of German. So I think after one week of getting some private language training, they said, well, there's not so much more we can we can teach you. You're ready to go. Excellent.

Andy Follows: 22:11

And did you were you married at this point?

Michael Kreeft: 22:13

Yeah, I forgot to mention that. My first marriage was with BMW in 1986. My second marriage was with my wife at 1987. That's her words. Okay.

Andy Follows: 22:29

Okay. How did your wife appreciate moving to Munich? Was she on board? Was that a difficult?

Michael Kreeft: 22:34

Yes she was on board. But she was. It was only going to be for three years. And not a day longer. How wrong can you be?

Andy Follows: 22:46

That's a very good point. We don't know what's going to happen. And we just make these decisions. We went to Singapore. And now remember thinking or we said to our friends and family, we're going for two years. And eight years later, we came back from New Zealand. Yeah, you don't know. So that sounds a good move. But it's just the two of you. No children at that.

Michael Kreeft: 23:08

no. The children were born in 1998. We had our daughter Melissa in 1999 also. So yeah, we moved the four of us with almost two year old. And three and a half year old, we moved to Munich. And I'd been there a couple of times. We knew some people living close to BMW. So that was that's a your first the first contact that you have. And, yeah, we found an apartment close to BMW in a old Olympic Village, close to the four cylinder.

Andy Follows: 23:46

And what are your main memories from that period?

Michael Kreeft: 23:51

Well, first of all, I think you know, being close to the four cylinder building, you start realising when you call BMW in Munich. There are many, many doors open, because there's so many. It's the heart of the company and so many people live there. We really really enjoyed the time there, you get into the first time we stepped out of living in a foreign country. I spoke language very well. My wife also spoke it and learned it quite good. The children it took them like six, nine months before they were speaking German. Yeah, we found so many families and friends. In that time, it was really really enjoyable. And also the work was the house was close to the to the office. So no long travel times. And that made it really convenient to combine work and a private life. For me, it was like I said, it was like a three years journey. But then, you know, after three years, we were asked, you know, do you want to stay here? And do you want to have a local contract? And we consider that in quite quickly decided, yeah, that's, that's fine. We could really see ourselves settled down in Munich. And in Germany, it was really a fantastic place. It was close to the mountains. I love skiing. So I went skiing, my wife learned to ski, summer holidays, in Italy, and the Munich for us, really big city, and fantastic to live in with great qualities as well.

Andy Follows: 25:33

That sounds very good. You didn't stay there the whole time, though. So that those very strong reasons for extending your contract or going onto a local contract staying in the city, in Germany but we know that didnt last forever so what caused you to move out

Michael Kreeft: 25:49

Yeah, well, after I would say, five, six years being in Munich, you know little bit about how the head office works. But I think I can I can say I'm, I'm more of a market person. So there's, at some point in time, when you know, you you start seeing the politics that sometimes happen in head office and you think, do I really want to be a part of that? Do I want to work in a market and be much closer to also the products of the company. Working in consolidation department in Munich, it didn't really matter, you know, if you would be selling fridges or televisions or or cars, the connection with the brand, of course, was there. But the connection with the products was less. And that was, I think something that really appealed to me, over my years with BMW is, you know, being close to the people that are in the market, and sell or sell the products and being closer to the dealers and the customers.

Andy Follows: 26:54

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for CAREER-VIEW MIRROR. They're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers from my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business, ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at Hello@ASKEConsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at WWW.ASKEConsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode.

Michael Kreeft: 28:50

So I decided I asked for an opportunity to go abroad. We even went for a look at see to Sao Paulo in Brazil. But at the same time BMW had already acquired Rover Group in 1994. And in 1998, things in Rover Group started to become a little bit more dark and more difficult financially. And I was responsible within the consolidation department for Rover Group. So yeah one and one is two and they decided jointly we jointly decided it would be a better move to go to the UK and work with Rover Group at that time in Birmingham.

Andy Follows: 29:32

Were you part of the turnaround team then?

Michael Kreeft: 29:35

I'm not even sure we did the turn around but

Andy Follows: 29:38

Might it have been optimistical. I just remember because I realised I joined Rover in 97 and was there till 99 And I remember going to at least one meeting in Birmingham where there were German colleagues or colleagues from the headquarters rather had come over on a turnaround team and

Michael Kreeft: 29:59

I was really working with Rover Group as an expat for BMW, working in Birmingham in the accounts department, you could say that I knew this, there was plenty of planes coming from Munich loaded with German people arriving Monday morning, flying back on Friday afternoon. Now we were happily enjoying living in the UK, I can tell you, and at the meantime, of course, working hard to turn it around, but I think we all know that it was too much. And at the end, it didn't work out. But I was then also, at the end of 99, working with colleagues from Munich to do an impairment for Rover Group, and that kind of gave an indication of where this investment unfortunately, was going.

Andy Follows: 30:49

So it's quite a long time ago. Now, with hindsight, is it a safe place to go to ask you, what do you think some of the issues were, why it didn't work out?

Michael Kreeft: 30:59

I can give you my opinion. But, of course, it's just me, you know, different people with different opinions on it. I think there were cultural issues between Rover Group and BMW that were quite hard to bridge. But I think there are many people who are no longer in the Rover, with Rover Group, you know, they had seen more companies coming in or you know, being taken over, telling them how to do things and to change things, and maybe not always believing it was the right thing to do. I think in BMW, there were different beliefs as well, they were projects to develop a new SUV, the x five, which has become one of the best vehicles in the industry. And you can imagine that, you know, the people that will work in Landrover will say, Well, you know, why? Why does BMW want to develop an off road vehicle when we've already got the best off road vehicles in the world. So I think these topics may not have been addressed with everyone that is at that time, I think, at the end of the day, the companies were too much culturally apart. And also from a development point, BMW, really focusing on technology, innovation quality. And unfortunately, some of the products that we build in the UK, they don't stand up to that.

Andy Follows: 32:22

So interesting times you, you had the job of bringing things together, and then separating them.

Michael Kreeft: 32:30

Yes, yeah. Because when when BMW then decided to sell Rover Group. There were many colleagues that decided to jump on the plane and leave the country as quickly as possible. And I was one of the persons said, No, I think it's going to be a very interesting period. And I think I want to be part of that. So we stayed in the UK. And yeah, we had to do the whole the investment of Rover Group and more than 20 years ago, but Rover Group when it was broken up. The parts were sold to Ford Land Rover, parts were kept with BMW MINI and parts stayed with a consortium in the UK. So it was a it was an extremely complicated process. And you can imagine, you know, we were, we had like 80 90 Colleagues, I believe in the new accounts department. And, you know, when the decision was taken, you had to say, Okay, where do you want to work? Do you want to be with Landrover? Do you want to be with Rover? Or do you want to be with BMW, and people then had to make kind of a decision of where is my future? For me it was, it was easy, because for me, it was BMW, but for some of the UK colleagues, it was more of a difficult decision.

Andy Follows: 33:48

I've had guests Dan Balmer was one of my earlier guests and he was in engineering at the same time he was faced with the same choice Do you want to go to BMW or stay with Rover or? And yeah, it very interesting times. And by this point in your career, Michael, were you very happy with your numbers? You were happy in the in the finance area? And was this feeling like the right place?

Michael Kreeft: 34:12

Yeah I was. You know, controlling accounting was kind of where I wanted where I wanted to be. And with the with the breakup of Rover Group, I got the also the opportunity to set up the accounts department in plant Oxford, Oxford is now the home of Mini, but at that time, it was the home of Rover 75. MINI was produced in Birmingham, but BMW decided to keep Mini and to give away or sell the Rover business. So that was production lines had to be moved from one plant to the other. And when I arrived in Oxford, there was no accounts department so I had to set up meetings with agencies and try to find people that wanted to do the accounts in Oxford plant and after a week I found enough people that we thought okay, this might be become a good team. We then all worked the next three months in Birmingham trying to, you know, have a smooth handover. And then we all move back to Oxford and set it

Andy Follows: 35:19

Wow, the very beginning of the MINI journey, up there. the new MINI the current. Absolutely, yeah, the current MINI. Excellent. And what came from what came after that Michael?

Michael Kreeft: 35:31

I think it was an interesting theory. Because you know, there is no textbook, there is no education that prepares you for something like that. And I think that's been a fantastic learning curve. For me personally, you know, suddenly, we had trucks and trailers that were on our books, and I had no ideas about trucks and trailers, and nobody about leases. But then suddenly, we had to sell them. We had assets, and we had liabilities on the books, we all had to sort out. And together with with KPMG, and with the with the team that I had, that time in Oxford, we really managed to clean up the business. And it was extremely interesting was also challenging for having a work life balance. Because my day is basically started at seven, getting in the car, driving up from Oxford, where I live to Birmingham, and driving driving home at 9 10 in the evening, so it was not the best family time. And my wife made it very clear to me. And I think that was also the right thing to do. At some point in time to kind of keep you need someone to put a mirror into your face and say, Okay, look in this. This is really what you want to do. Is this really what you want to become,

Andy Follows: 36:40

especially after you decided you didn't want having watched your father work in the evening, but that wasn't what you were signing up for.

Michael Kreeft: 36:50

That was exactly this. So I just went into that into that same trap, but it was, you know, it was good. We had a I think in the summer of 2000. We took a really good family holiday went three weeks to the States. So some of the people in BMW said no, you can't go on holiday, we haven't finished the the deinvestment of Rover Group in the accounts. And I said, you know, it doesn't really matter because I need to go on holiday. I feel that my battery is empty. And I need to I need to recharge my battery. And yeah, we had a we had really three fantastic weeks of holiday in the US.

Andy Follows: 37:27

And you came back and the world was still spinning.

Michael Kreeft: 37:31

The world was still spinning, everything was still there. That's also learning. You know, some people think they can never go on holiday. You can and you should.

Andy Follows: 37:39

Yeah, just thinking how incredible that must have been quite a lot going on a big task a blank sheet of paper, no team shifting production from Birmingham to Oxford, a brand new product, deinvestment from Rover selling bits of the business to Land Rover and Ford. Lots to keep you interested. Yeah. A bit too busy on occasion. But fortunately, your wife was there to say, Hang on, Michael, is this what you really want? Yeah, very good.

Michael Kreeft: 38:07

I think we know we, we finished setting up the accounts in Oxford. And then that was four years in the UK. And then it kind of was within BMW. The question comes, you know what's next, because expats, normally three to five years in the same job. And then and then you move on. At that time, I got the opportunity to go back to the Netherlands and become the CFO in where I started. So we said yeah, that's a fantastic opportunity. We you know its for the children great because they haven't lived in really consciously in the Netherlands. So it's good for them to go back to go to the Dutch education system, learn a little bit about about the language and also see much more of of the family. So that was a a good a good decision. And again, a market for market position. So yeah, staying in the market definitely was what I wanted to do. It

Andy Follows: 39:09

sounded like a great opportunity. It's going back home, it's good for the children. It's in a market. How was the reality?

Michael Kreeft: 39:16

I think we had it was one of the one of the best periods that I had in my career with BMW. The Dutch MSC is a very interesting company because you have everything and as a CFO, you have the possibility to really learn the whole and see the whole business. And I think this is in the smaller, smaller entity that's possible, you know, these bigger entities that that are working later on. Sometimes you don't have the opportunity to see and get to know everybody because the organisation is so big but in an organisation of the it could really have again, this this personal contact with people and we had a great management team and I'm still friends with with people that were in that management team. And that was going back to the roots, you could say, but also, for the family, you know, living then in the Netherlands, we then bought the house that I'm still sitting in today, it gave us an opportunity to found a little bit of our home ground and also a base that we believe it was also good for the children to have a couple of years where they you know, they don't have to say every year goodbye to friends, which that is a part of, you know, moving around as an expat for your your kids, if they go to an international school. There's always new, new kids coming, kids going. And for them, sometimes it's hard. And it's sometimes also sad, and you don't always think about it when you do it. But you know, when your kids get older for them sometimes to be also becomes a little bit more difficult to have that every year again. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 40:57

So you there's a lot of advantages to being back in your home country, in a good position in the organisation, and you've picked up I'm sure some very good experience in the UK in manufacturing and lots of different areas of the business you'd have learned about. And your profile was presumably good as well, you are getting I imagine good recognition for the work that you are doing and the the effort you're putting in.

Michael Kreeft: 41:24

I think, especially in the UK, and Absolutely. especially during the times with with Rover Group, and you know, sorting things out. There were many people that I think appreciated, you know, the fact first fact, you stayed out, you helped sorting things out. After that, as well, you know, how do you develop the business, and it gave me the opportunity to go back to the to the Netherlands. And then in that position again, as a CFO, you have more contact again, with people in in head office. And that also helped me further on during my career. And I think it's always good that you know, when you you've lived in a certain country, and afterwards people say, oh, you know, I still want to, you know, wanted you to come back and that I did have that question one point in time, from the UK that the MSc in the UK, wanted to have me as a CFO, it didn't happen at that time, because I continued my career in the Netherlands, but it did happen then later on.

Andy Follows: 42:25

Yeah, as we'll we'll find out. I think it's a really interesting point, Michael, that there are projects that people want to get on, that may be glamorous, and look like they're going to be good for your career. And there are projects that may be look a little bit less attractive, a little bit messier, maybe they're not the most exciting, you know, they're not the bright new thing. However, if you do those, well, if you get involved, there can be a lot of benefit, a lot of personal growth, also recognition from people that know you prepared to do not just the very attractive opportunities, but

Michael Kreeft: 42:59

I mean, I think you know this as well, but there's always now everybody wants to become a CFO of the US, because it's it's a nice stepping stone into something else or, you know, become a CEO in South Africa, because it's a great was a great stepping stone for people within BMW Group, but I've never really in my career looked for certain positions. I always find you know, it's about you know, doing your job in the right way, making sure you, you speak, of course, you need to keep your network alive, and you need to speak to the right people. But, you know, the right opportunity will come will come its way, that's how I tackled it. Now, there's a people who have chosen different ways. I've never really was the one that wanted to be constantly talking to people about new opportunities, I want to my job well, and made sure that you know, you do what's best for the company. And you know, you work hard, you play hard, and, you know, try to find the good work life balance. That was also one of the things I learned and changed on a personal level in 2009, when I was in the Netherlands and I just moved from the national sales company to financial services. Yeah, my wife out of the blue had a cardiac arrest and fell fell down in the bathroom and I had to resuscitate her. And yeah, of course, luckily also the medical services came and she was taken to hospital operated on and came by after three days of being in a coma and completely recovered and, you know, that's one of the also you talk about you know, points in your life that really make you that's that was also definitely one point in our lives where you Then we saw, okay, there's there's more than just work. You know, there's a life, there's a family, there's people you love, and you need to take time for them to because things can really go completely different than where you planned.

Andy Follows: 45:12

Yeah. And it can change in a heartbeat, as they say, Wow, that's incredible and such a good outcome from what could have was a very high chance that there wouldn't be a good outcome from that. Yeah,

Michael Kreeft: 45:26

I think it's like 5% that normally out of hospital cardiac arrest, come out of it. And yeah, I think I was lucky enough that, that we had done one of these trainings, and I was able to help my wife. And it's, of course, it's not, you don't realise it when you do it. There was a lot of friends that after this happened to us that and also took similar training, because she don't You don't know. And that's the you don't always get the signals. That you're not okay. It can certainly happen. And it still happens to people. And it's good if, if some someone is there than to help you and save your life.

Andy Follows: 46:10

Incredible story Michael to have experienced and the percentage that you mentioned, I came across that only fairly recently. And so I'm glad you you said that I didn't want to bring it up, because it just adds more drama. But when you know how few people can be resuscitated. Even in hospital, it's less than 20%. Only on television, do people get resuscitated and off they go. So you saying also that you transferred then into financial services. So you've been in manufacturing, you've been in the sales company, and now you move, you had moved into financial services in the Netherlands and for a better lifestyle, better work life balance.

Michael Kreeft: 46:57

opportunity to do something else? And it was it was, I have to say financial services have been Yeah, it's completely different business. And I think the people in the industry know it, and other people will not but you know, the NSC, the sales company business is all about, you know, achieving your monthly targets. And financial services, you get your profit over your three, four or five years contract. So it's all about, you know, what kind of risks do you want to take with your customers with the cars with the residual values. So it's a completely different business model. And though not a lot of people realise when they switch from one side to the other as we sometimes say the business. But it was, again, fantastic opportunity. Great team in the Netherlands. And and also gave me the opportunity to organise one of the I would say highlights of my career, and it's just the international financial services soccer tournament in the moment.

Andy Follows: 48:05

Yes, a highlight indeed. And I just want to go back, because there's one thing I didn't pick up on, which I meant to which I'm sure will get a lot of BMW, colleagues and friends listening to your episode. And I think it's really good your description of not always chasing the next job, not having so much of your focus on what am I going to do next. But actually having a great career, you know, doing a good job in the role that you're in and concentrating on adding value, you do have to have some eye on what you're going to do next to make sure you keep the network going, as you say, but there also needs to be some focus on getting the job done. Done. Wow.

Michael Kreeft: 48:47

And I think that's the you know, the problem Absolutely. probably is too harsh. But I think there are people who go into an expat role. But generally it will take you like six months, maybe 12 months before you understand the country and the role and everything in detail. And then they work one year on improving things. And then the third year, they are busy finding a new position. And that's not who I am. And that's not who I ever wanted to be, you know, when I came in, I never thought about okay, when does this position gonna end when is my contract gonna end? I want to do the best job and I want to do it in the best way. And make sure that you know, when you when you leave, things are better than before.

Andy Follows: 49:35

Very good. Let's go I interrupted. You were just talking about the international football tournament. So is there other learnings from that where they're obviously a very enjoyable and colourful event and a great way of bringing the colleagues together, but was there more to it than that? Was there benefits that you saw from that?

Michael Kreeft: 49:55

Well for me personally, yeah, maybe because I think you know, your work to organise an event For 500 people in the Netherlands and that was basically my fault, because German colleague who was the CEO in France, at the time, had a task to organise this. But he came up with a budget. And I said, Well, you know, I can do it for half of the full amount. And of course, that's the best way of them getting it pushed into your, into your direction. But it was time when BMW had to make changes in the organisation and financial services, what kind of structure that we need in Europe. And it was a little bit of uncertainty in the European organisations. And that gave us also the opportunity then to put some organise something that will, again, bring people together again, great, a great atmosphere of camaraderie of creating friendships over the borders, which is also so important, I think, in these times. But you know, getting to know people from different different cultures and getting together in an environment where, yeah, we would compete, quite fanatically. And of course, nobody wants to lose. You know, soccer came from a different country. But it also gave me the opportunity to have a good party on Friday evening and Saturday evening, and, and people talked about it for a very long time. And for me, personally, you know, people saw that I organised this and I had great help with fantastic team in the Netherlands, organising this event, because you never do it on your own. It's teamwork. Tha t's also what I strongly believe in, you can maybe give some guidance, but at the end of the day, you need to do it as a team. Otherwise, you're not successful. Yet that then kind of set me up maybe for a further step in my career, and you know, growing into the higher management of BMW.

Andy Follows: 51:52

So it was you think the fact that you leant in, if you like, and offered to take that on and ran it, and it was clearly a culturally, a highly positive engagement that that contributed to you being seen as a more rounded or an individual with the potential for the highest levels of management?

Michael Kreeft: 52:13

I think it had an impact. Yeah, I'm not saying that's the only thing because that would be really sad, if that would be the only thing? No, it was, I think, you know, you because you do something completely different. And people people see that, and they see how you how you act in it. And that's also why I was during my career, I challenge people to go out of their comfort zone, and to move from one function into another. Because if you stay in your comfort zone, it becomes sometimes difficult to see what people can do even more and even better. And I think even for your own sake, you know, just challenging yourselves, you know, whether it's in your personal life, whether it's doing sports, it gives you the opportunity to find your own borders, and suddenly you discover you can do more than what you expected.

Andy Follows: 53:03

Yeah I absolutely didn't think that was the only reason you were picked for higher management . However, I wanted to shine a light on it to illustrate that you can't just be good at your job. So on the one hand, you can't be good at your job, you've created an event, or you've helped deliver an event that has altered the mood of the people in a difficult time. It's an out of the box, it's trying things different. And that whole event would have had repercussions on the mood of the people, the connections between people cross border, there'll be relationships still going today that were established on the Friday night and the Saturday night football tournament that will have facilitated project decisions actions cross border ever since. So it's recognising there's a bit more to it than just doing the job or doing the job includes doing some big cultural projects or

Michael Kreeft: 54:07

I think, you know, in many organisations, BMW is no different. You can't do it on your own. You need to have these collections to have the connections internationally or up and down in your organisation and what better opportunity, you know, to wear a jersey and and to play together and have fun together. You know, I remember when we had a couple of years because we have just shortly after that tournament, I was then asked to take over the CEO position of financial services in France. And I remember that two years later on, we went to Italy and we have a soccer tournament in Italy and you're putting them totally honest, a French jersey and you have to be part of that team. But you know, it helps the whole integration also in the organisation and I went to France I didn't speak any French that was one of the languages I had to learn. But you know, at the moment, you you put yourself on the, you know, in the same in the same shoes, the same jersey, and you're out on the pitch you're one of the guys and you all cheer for the same goal. And of course, that helps so much more than, you know, whatever the next, the next weeks you you meet the people in the office, that also takes away the barriers that they can come to you and they will come to them. And they're not afraid anymore of speaking to you.

Andy Follows: 55:29

No, you've shown up as a human being you've shown up authentically, you've put on the blue jersey, allez les bleu. And you've made yourself more approachable, and more, more human. And that's what I tell you know, my guests as well, when you come on CAREER-VIEW MIRROR and you tell your story. People who are working for you are in your teams and your organization's get to hear things about you that they wouldn't otherwise most likely have heard. And all of a sudden they understand you, you become more approachable, they have a hook, they can come and talk to you about so it's along the same line. So you move from being managing director in the Netherlands of financial services to then be managing director in France had to learn the language. How was it you know, cultural differences going from

Michael Kreeft: 56:23

In the Netherlands you know, any dealer visit. First of all, distance wise, I could do a visit like four or 5 dealers in a day, you would go there and you want to have a cup of coffee, you would have a cookie, you come very quickly to the topic you discuss, then you get in your car, you go to the next one. It's not possible in France, the president of the company of financial services is coming. So the dealer welcomes you, you know, he shows you around, he shows us all operation introduces you to this main important people in his organisation. The gates are closed for lunch, as they still do in France in many, many locations. You go to his favourite restaurant, you get good foods, you get one glass of good wine, and then you go back into the office. And then you discuss business, completely different way of doing things. So it's a great, great experience been really great experience, you know, we, we didn't go on a lot of holidays in, in France for no particular reason. But we just didn't do it. And you know, then when you learn the language, and you're able to communicate with the people, and you start visiting, you know people are personally dealers are proud, they're proud of the business they've created, proud of what they what they are the position they have in their local communities. And I think it's always good, you know, to get out of your ivory tower, and to visit them and to give them recognition for what they what they have achieved, what they've built, and also to have done a good discussion and listen to their input. But I never went to dealer visits to tell them how to do their business. What I wanted to know is what can we do better. And I think that is, you know, helped me a lot and helped us in France specifically a lot to grow the business because we we went there and we listened to what the dealers wanted and then made changes in our processes and tools. And that gave us a an advantage over the competition.

Andy Follows: 58:29

Very good advice, because the dealers know their business much better than the market, even the market or the the headquarters. They know they know what's happening on the ground. So from France, you then went back into the sales side of the company. It is quite interesting the way you I'm not sure how common it is for people to swap sides, as you said earlier to swap sides backwards and forwards who asked you to go to the UK or did you ask to go back? What was the story?

Michael Kreeft: 58:59

Well, initially, the plan after spent four years in France was to continue in financial services back in Munich, and to become responsible for strategy for financial services. But there was a something in the UK that happened and there was a Brexit vote and within the BMW Group Management and even up in the in the board, they wanted someone to go to the UK because my predecessor decided to leave the company and they wanted a CFO that knew the country had experience with the British and here I was. I'd done my job in Rover Group worked round Oxford. So I was suddenly one of the candidates for the CFO position in the UK.

Andy Follows: 59:46

You had experience of dismantling things and seperating them

Michael Kreeft: 59:53

and I wasn't I wasn't sure because you know life in financial services sometimes maybe little bit easier and quieter than normally on the sales side, but then again, you know, you need to know, your team and I had an interview with the CEO of the UK. And there was a, I would say, direct connection with him. And I think, you know, it's always important that there's a click with people that really helps you working together. And creating a great team and Graham, I had that and yeah, I was happy then to join him in the UK, and he was happy enough to have me as a CFO.

Andy Follows: 1:00:35

So you found yourself back in the UK?

Michael Kreeft: 1:00:37

Yeah, I was back in the UK. Yeah, but a different area. Of course, the first time we lived four years in Oxford, the kids went to school in Abingdon. Work in the beginning was was Birmingham, and then it was Warwick, and then it was became Oxford. Now, of course, the head office of BMW had moved to Farnborough. So we were living much closer to to London, first in Walton on Thames, and then and then Cobham

Andy Follows: 1:01:07

And again, you you spent a reasonable length of time in the UK on that project? It wasn't a quick in and out.

Michael Kreeft: 1:01:13

Yeah, that was again, four years. I mean, first of all, I think Brexit took a little bit longer to sort out for the for the politicians. That helped me, because we didn't move any more with our children. And when we went to France, or the UK, it was it was just the two of us and, and our dogs. Yeah, we love the country. It's got a lot of history, it's green. Culturally, I think there's a connection between the Dutch and the Brits, and the humour is on the, the jokes are a little bit on the on the same, same level. So this was easy, easy living there.

Andy Follows: 1:01:54

And how about going from being the Managing Director, you'd been the managing director in France, you'd been the managing director in the Netherlands before that in financial services to then being the CFO, in the sales company was that I consider it did you give that a second thought? Or were you quite happy to once you've met Graham Grieve? Well,

Michael Kreeft: 1:02:16

once once I've met Graham, that was for me, there was no doubt that this will work. First, you know, when you first they offer the job, you think, Oh, is that really what I want to do? Do I want to go back into the CFO position again? Because it is different than being the Managing Director, CEO. But I thought I thought it was, as I said, it's the connection with the team, then the challenges that you have in your role. And also, you know, just living in the UK was was a little bit easier for my wife because she's fantastic on languages. But yeah, English just a little bit more natural than French. So for her it was also really nice to go back there. Although we you know we have friends everywhere we have friends still in Germany? I'm sure you do. UK, in France, and even in Japan. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 1:03:05

So talking of Japan, that was the last roll you did in the Group

Michael Kreeft: 1:03:09

that was the cherry on the cake, as we will say. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 1:03:12

Tell me about the transition. How did that come about?

Michael Kreeft: 1:03:16

2020 COVID, there wasn't a lot of international travel going on. So I was asked for this position at the end of 2019 when everybody thought we could still move around in the world. But COVID came and suddenly all the borders were closed, and we'd never been in Japan, we've never been in Tokyo. So we really didn't have any idea what to what to expect for us a little bit difficult was the fact that it was getting further away from our children. And at that time already one grandchild. So that was for us a little bit of a consideration. Do we really want to do it? But then we also spoke to friends who had lived there several times. And they were all so enthusiastic about Japan, the culture of the country that convinced us and we said, okay, yeah, that's Let's go. Let's do that. And then we just had to wait. We just had to wait until the country opened up. It happened in October 2020. We had a very short period of time. So then we quickly moved from the UK to the Netherlands moved all our furniture and stuff to the Netherlands and then got on a plane, two suitcases each and flew to Tokyo.

Andy Follows: 1:04:38

So were you enrolled officially in Japan for months before you actually were able to?

Michael Kreeft: 1:04:43

No I flew over in November and then started officially in December. Okay, yeah, but it was a very interesting, you know, handover with my predecessor because of course everything you know by teams and on the phone and we know each other We never physically met in Japan.

Andy Follows: 1:05:03

So you arrived, your friends and colleagues had said great things about the country and how we must have been, again, another culture shock, though, when you first arrived, or maybe not a shock, but certainly a very different culture from the UK or France or Netherlands,

Michael Kreeft: 1:05:20

a shock is not so wrong, I think you have this thing issue, are you really someone that likes to communicate with people, you know, French, German, English, and then you're in Japan don't speak Japanese can't read what's written on the signs, oh, this is gonna be different. I didn't one of the things I immediately signed, okay, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take Japanese lessons, I managed to learn some basic skills about the language, okay, I can basically communicating in Japanese, not great. But I can have a conversation without constantly having an interpreter on your side. Because that is, the difficult thing of doing business with dealers in Japan is that most of the dealers don't speak English. And if you don't speak Japanese, and basically always have a person sitting next to you. And the conversation is constantly you're saying it in your language, it's translated, the other person responds in his language translated, a lot is lost in translation. So that was completely different than my experience in France, in the UK, in the Netherlands. But I think what was also different, of course, is that at a time, when you start, everybody was wearing face masks. So come into the office, face masks mandatory, so you see dark eyes, you see dark hair, and face masks, and I think it took me weeks and months to get to know who was in the organisation. Because many people were also still working working at home. So generally, not five days a week in the office. So it was really hard getting to recognise people to get to learn their names. That was a really challenging start. But the good thing about COVID time in Japan, was that there were no tourists. And for a country that millions of tourists every year, now having the opportunity then to go to Kyoto, and visit the temples without really, nobody has that place to place yourself. And you know, everywhere we went, and of course, we don't look Japanese, people will ask you, Oh, where are you from? Why are you here? in a very polite way. But it gave us a fantastic opportunity to discover Japan in the first year. And we said, you know, if this is going to be a last my last position within within BMW, because of the [name] contract, we knew that, you know, 63 was going to be my ending date. So they said, Okay, we're gonna enjoy this as much as possible. enjoying Japan is not easy. It's easy. If you're there on holiday, it's not easy. If you work in Japan, Japan is hard work. Really, it's long days, not only because the Japanese work longer hours, but also because you have this time difference with the head office. So by the time your day is almost like four o'clock, five o'clock, your colleagues in Munich woke up they have had their first meeting. And then it continues for a couple of hours again. So you could leave the office and you know, have no emails in your inbox. And you woke up the next day, and you had like 50 emails in your inbox. And so it was, it was 24/7 on honestly, that was even more important. And you need to, you know, take time off, you know, national holidays or weekends and go out and discover this stuff. Japan In Japan is a fantastic, fantastic country. Culture, the whole combination of innovation, modern things combined with the traditions. It's fantastic. Great food. Lovely people, difficult language. But yeah, we really enjoyed it.

Andy Follows: 1:09:31

Excellent. I'm sure it was absolutely fascinating. What about now then Michael so you've came to the end of your last assignment there. What have you got in

Michael Kreeft: 1:09:44

So I closed my laptop on the 31st of December store? and then said, okay, you know, I'm gonna take two, three months basically off to kind of wind down, find a different rhythm. Do a lot of things in and around The house, but then started my own company. And that's still that's the plan. So yeah, the first two months flew out flew by. So really it was over before I knew it. Still do a little bit things in and around the house, but I'm mostly finished my own place. So now it's the children that are raising their hands and saying, dad can you do that. Can you please help a little bit here, and there? We're seeing a lot more of the grandkids and a lot more of other other family. Yeah, so the next thing is to start up my own company and be active in consulting, non executive directorships, maybe interim CFO, but I'm not going to do full time, nine to eight, five days, six days a week. Job again, maybe only if it is an interim, interim CFO might be something to do. There's still a travel book that I need to make about about Japan, I've got more than 6000 photos taken. So that's, that's one of the things restarted learning Spanish because we've got a pl ace in, in Spain. So I need to get my Spanish up in order again. And yeah, I'm enjoying enjoying life. And I think that's, that's so important. And, you know, I went back to BMW in in January, because I didn't have the opportunity to properly say goodbye to all the colleagues that I that I knew from head office, because I kept on working in Japan until the end. But I did want to say goodbye on a put in the proper way, you know, you need to do that after 37 years with the company, you can't just leave. So I did that. And then came back. And then on the Saturday, my wife organised a surprise party for me. And that was, you know, a colleague that I started working with in BMW on the same day in in the Netherlands, was there there were people there from financial services period in the Netherlands, people that came over from the UK Graham Grieve was there [name] Park Lane was there, colleagues and management team from the Netherlands. It was fantastic. And that really, you know, it shows you now that a lot of appreciation from the people that I work with. My son in law had to organise the BMW, BMW hood. So people have written messages on it. So and I'm finding it, having discussions still with my wife what the best place is to hang this. The hood of the BMW in she doesn't think the living room was the right place in the bedroom, but we'll come to an agreement. And but you know, it was it was fantastic. My kids were there. My wife was there, the colleagues and friends that I've worked with over the over the years. And I think that's, you know, looking back at that, you know, that's just you look in the mirror and think Well, it's, it's been a fantastic time. But yeah, I'm only 63 years old or young. So there's still more to come.

Andy Follows: 1:13:18

Marvellous. That's sounds a wonderful, very fitting end to your BMW days, that party that gathering and shows the depth of friendship and connection that you've made with colleagues over the years. What a wonderful event. And you said, looking in the mirror, I mean, that's what we've been doing CAREER-VIEW MIRROR, we've been looking back over your career. Thank you very much, Michael, for sharing your journey. Is there anything I haven't asked you that you think, Oh, we might have missed out on a golden nugget from your days? Or have we covered it all?

Michael Kreeft: 1:13:51

I think we've covered most things. Andy, and I really want to thank you for the opportunity of having me in this very popular podcast and of yours. And I remember the first time when we when we met after your BMW career in London, and you were setting up this company, and it was really starting starting to grow your your business. And I really admired you for doing that. So I hope that I can have like similar success tha you had

Andy Follows: 1:14:23

I'm sure you will. And I wish you all the best. And if there's anything I can do to help, then don't hesitate. It's been an absolute pleasure having this conversation with you. I'm glad we've caught you just within a couple of months of you finishing your BMW career so we could get it while it's fresh, if you like and encapsulate that first phase before you go on to your second phase with your business and we'll put links in the show notes to this episode. We'll put your LinkedIn details in there. So if people are listening and thinking, Oh, wow, we can have access to Michael we might be able to get some help from Michael. We might be able to bring him onto our board we might be able to get him in And as an interim CFO, then they can reach out to you and, and ask you about that. So thank you very much.

Michael Kreeft: 1:15:06

Thank you very much.

Andy Follows: 1:15:12

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience where you find yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Michael's story. Some elements that stood out for me were, he'd seen his father working long hours and decided that real estate wasn't for him. It was because he wanted to continue his studies that he decided not to stay with KLM but joined BMW, and that will turn out to lead to a 37 year career with the brand, this decision to stay and handle the very interesting tasks associated with deinvesting in Rover, that he fell into the trap of working late and his wife holding up the mirror to say, is this what you want? The remarkable story of his wife's emergency medical situation, his first aid, and her ultimate full recovery, which is a reminder to us all to make sure we know the basics of first aid, the cultural differences between BMW and Rover and between working in the Netherlands and France or Japan. The benefits of initiatives like the European soccer tournament for forging relationships and building networks across borders, his preference for longer assignments and not being in a rush to find the next opportunity as soon as he'd completed the first couple of years in a market. The description of that wonderful surprise party that marked the end of his BMW career, and how that brought together people going back to his very first day in the business. What a fitting way to acknowledge the personal side of Michael's career journey. If you'd like to connect with Michael, we'll put his contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guest stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with somebody you lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who you think would also enjoy listening? Thank you to Michael for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the Career-view Mirror team without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests' life and career stories. And above all, thank you to you for listening