Jodie Monaghan: an inspiring leader who thrives on responsibility who's navigating a successful automotive career fuelled by curiosity, ambition and an appetite for learning.

In this episode we are celebrating the career to date of Jodie Monaghan.

Jodie is Customer Experience Director at Tusker. Tusker is an award winning car leasing company, the largest salary sacrifice scheme provider in the UK and now part of Lloyds Banking Group.

Jodie joined Tusker in 2015 as Head of Academy, where she was responsible for training and developing their people.

Prior to joining Tusker, Jodie spent over ten years at Alphabet in a variety of roles.

In our conversation Jodie reveals how two teachers took her to one side and helped her to get back on track, how her interest in becoming a forensic scientist was derailed by an accident and how she fortunately found an alternative outlet for her strengths and curiosity in an office environment.

Jodie shares how she learned about leadership during her career journey and how increasing levels of responsibility fuelled her ambition causing her to volunteer for projects that represented an investment in her development and increased the breadth of her experience across the business.

I first worked with Jodie 20 years ago. She is a wonderful colleague to have on your team and I am delighted to have this opportunity to share her life and career story. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you.

If you're listening for the first time, hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted advisor to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, check out: Release the handbrake! - The Fulfilling Performance Hub on Substack.

Connect with Jodie
LinkedIn: Jodie Monaghan

Thank you to our sponsors:
ASKE Consulting
Email: hello@askeconsulting.co.uk

Aquilae
Email: cvm@aquilae.co.uk

Episode Directory on Instagram @careerviewmirror 

If you enjoy listening to our guests career stories, please follow CAREER-VIEW MIRROR in your podcast app. 

Episode recorded on 18 March, 2024.

Transcript

Jodie Monaghan: 0:00

I love not really knowing and then seeking to understand and really trying not to assume things. I think that's my big thing I've really learned quite a lot you can assume something can be really, really wrong. But actually, if you're not, then you can just open this whole world and just Information and opinions and alternative solutions can come at you and you can be really informed by the end of a journey if you are just curious.

Aquilae: 0:28

Welcome to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers to share insights to help you with your own journey. Here's your host, Andy Follows

Andy Follows: 0:42

Hello, listeners, Andy here. Thank you for tuning in. We appreciate that you do. We're also very grateful for our guests who generously joined me to create these episodes so that we can celebrate their careers listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. In this episode, we're celebrating the career to date of Jodie Monahan. Jodie is Customer Experience Director at Tusker. Tusker is an award winning car leasing company, the largest salary sacrifice scheme provider in the UK, and now part of Lloyds Banking Group. Jodie joined Tusker in 2015 as head of Academy where she was responsible for training and developing their people. Prior to joining Tusker, Jodie spent over 10 years at Alphabet in a variety of roles. In our conversation, Jodie reveals how two teachers took her to one side and helped her to get back on track, how her interest in becoming a forensic scientist was derailed by an accident, and how she fortunately found an alternative outlet for her strengths and curiosity in an office environment. Jodie shares how she learned about leadership during her career journey, and how increasing levels of responsibility fueled her ambition, causing her to volunteer for projects that represented an investment in her development and increased the breadth of her experience across the business. I first worked with Jodie 20 years ago. She's a wonderful colleague to have on your team and I'm delighted to have this opportunity to share her life and career story. I look forward to hearing what resonates with you. If you're listening for the first time, hello, I'm Andy Follows. I'm a trusted adviser to senior leaders in the automotive industry. I work alongside them and their teams to enable Fulfilling Performance. If you'd like to know more about Fulfilling Performance, check out Release the Handbrake, the Fulfilling Performance Hub on Substack. We'll put a link in the show notes to this episode. Hello, Jodie, and welcome. And where are you coming to us from today?

Jodie Monaghan: 2:54

Hi, Andy. I'm in my office in Maidenhead. I grew up in Marlow, which is maybe a couple of miles away. didn't get very far. I do like this area. It's lovely. It's close enough to the M4 and the M40. and train stations and things to get in and out of London.

Andy Follows: 3:12

Thank you very much for joining me. And as I asked all of my guests, where did your journey start? Where

Jodie Monaghan: 3:17

I born in High Wycombe in something called the were you born? Shrubbery which was a very small maternity unit, where my mum and dad met in High Wycombe and then moved to Marlow when I was very little.

Andy Follows: 3:31

Right Marlow's a lovely place to grow up then so you've mentioned mum and dad. So whilst they're in the conversation, what jobs did you see them doing when you were growing up?

Jodie Monaghan: 3:42

So my mum brought me and my sisters up two younger sisters, she brought us up and was at home with us. And when my youngest sister was old enough and at school, my mum worked in the playgroup at the school, and then went on to be a teaching assistant in a local school so that she could still be there for us around summer holidays and pieces. My dad worked for Whitbread, he was a chauffeur there for one of the MDs. So yeah, both worked very, very hard in their respective worlds to look after us, which was their work ethic, actually, for both of them really influenced me and my sisters. So yeah, it was a good a good upbringing in that regard.

Andy Follows: 4:23

Yeah. So and you're already you can tell that you took something from them in terms of their work ethic that's rubbed off on you.

Jodie Monaghan: 4:31

Yes, indeed.

Andy Follows: 4:33

So a little chat about school, then how would your teachers have described you?

Jodie Monaghan: 4:42

In my younger years, I would probably say a bit of a distraction, and maybe a little bit of the fool, a nice one, but a distracting influence, I would say. And it wasn't until maybe I took my options in secondary school. And I found a couple of teachers that just really, really believed in me and had one of those really frank conversations and said, I know, you can do this, if you apply yourself. And it sort of changed everything, they called me out a bit. They gave me some responsibilities that they said, it's up to you what you do with this, but you can be a prefect. And you can do this. And one of my other teachers spotted something in me and said that they would do some lessons before school if I wanted to. But it was up to me if I wanted to take them up on it. And that sort of changed everything. So in my second half of secondary school, I became a little bit more focused and had a little bit more confidence. But before then I was, yeah, probably not the best person to teach, I wouldn't think

Andy Follows: 5:47

any idea why you might have been inclined towards being a little bit distracting and disruptive in that first half?

Jodie Monaghan: 5:57

Oh I'm pretty certain it was because I failed my 12 plus. And I was maybe one of two people that failed that in my primary school, we still had to 12 plus in in Marlow, and I went to a primary school that was, I think it was the best school in the area at the time. And I'd been moved there because the school I had started at, I was left handed, and they didn't teach me to write. So my mom moved me out and put me in this better school. And yeah, unfortunately, I didn't pass my 12 Plus, and it really threw me. And I've got feedback that maybe I wouldn't do well at grammar school and things like that, because of my personality. And I think I just played up to that, because I thought, Well, I'm not good enough for grammar school, I'm just going to play around and play up to what people think of me. So I'm pretty certain without having anyone confirm that. That's why I was like that school in secondary school. But it's an excellent school for a secondary school, I got 10 GCSEs. In the end, I started my AS levels before I went into sixth form. So it was it was actually perfect for me, but maybe took me a couple of years to work that out.

Andy Follows: 7:06

So took you a couple of years. And it sounds like a little bit of an intervention from a couple of teachers that helped you recalibrate your approach.

Jodie Monaghan: 7:16

Yeah it really did. And I'll never forget them really it was I can almost feel like I can remember the moment and I sort of had this awakening and and then I actually really started enjoying school and learning and and seeing what impact I could have on myself if you put a bit of effort in. I'm very, very grateful to them very grateful.

Andy Follows: 7:39

And it sounds like you had been adopting a persona based on that exam result at 12 Plus, that wasn't really you. But that was one you decided to wear if you like, and they helped you to revert to what you authentically were, which was curious and actually wanting to do well.

Jodie Monaghan: 8:02

Yeah I think so too. I think I'm always, you know, quite jolly by default. But you can put that energy into something really positive rather than destructive, which I think is what happened. I don't try and fit a box as such, and I used those bits of strengths, you know, you focus on what your strengths are. And I've always believed in that. And I think that's the first time I noticed that, that they saw my strengths and were focusing on that. I didn't identify that as happening at the time. But that's when you think and you look back, right, I see you see something that you're good at, you focus on it, you get good results, you put the effort in and actually you can put in a lot less effort to do something that you're naturally good at or you enjoy and you can get really great results from it. And you can it's a really positive experience. And I think that's my personal first experience of strength based life. And I've seen it in work now and did quite a lot of stuff with like Gallup Strength Finders, and I knew immediately I loved it. And I was like, right, this is the science behind it. This is what happened. I love it.

Andy Follows: 9:12

Excellent. And I'm sure anyone who knows you who's listening would see you as someone who, gosh, if anyone shows up 100% authentically and fills their whole self if you like, then you would fit that criteria. So So you got good results because you had this change of attitude, if you like leaned in, got good results. And when did you start to identify subjects or a direction that you wanted to go in? Was that at school did you start to find a way a path that you wanted to follow?

Jodie Monaghan: 9:50

I did, it didn't happen. I wanted to be a forensic scientist. That's what I really wanted to do. I absolutely loved sciences and went to Henley College and really focused on biology. But I had an accident and I was 17. I got a shunt in my vertebrae in my spine. And it just took me out of education at that point. So it really derailed my plans. And it just changed a lot. So I ended up kind of taking a bit of a job in an office, which I never thought I would do. It wasn't really the plan. But actually, you can apply lots of things in whatever you end up doing. And I knew I had to work and I wanted to work and I wanted to earn my own money. So I was very proud of doing that, even though it wasn't the plan. And then just yeah, just thankfully, I think I've had some really great people that I've worked with, and I've enjoyed the work that I've done.

Andy Follows: 10:44

So when you were pulled out of education, if you like and realise that you your path to become a forensic scientist was cut off, what was the first job that you got that

Jodie Monaghan: 10:56

I worked in a stationery shop on a Saturday in Marlow High Street, and it was like the hub of everything, everyone went in there for every everything, stationery supplies, office supplies, as a little news agents at the front, and it was very, very social. And from there, I went and worked in the office upstairs and kind of did the back office pieces and learnt lots of different things stock taking and doing some things for the p&l. And it was really nice that they let me sort of transition from the Saturday girl and then go into the office from a Monday to Friday. So that was my proper first job. And I remember getting paid in a brown envelope on a Friday. And I think it's about 100 pounds or 108 pounds or something, which just seems bonkers. But it was perfect for me at that age.

Andy Follows: 11:44

So if you think about the path that you're on, now, Jodie, does that feel like the path began in that stationary shop? Or is there a point where you think actually know that the trajectory or the path that I'm on now really started at a certain point?

Jodie Monaghan: 11:58

No I wouldn't say that was it, I would say I got a taste for office work in that regard. But actually, I My first job was in Lex Vehicle Leasing or Lex Vehicle Partners, actually, they were based in Marlow. And I could walk there. And that's my first proper job. And that was mind blowing. Because it was massive, there was probably six or seven people in the stationers but this at Lex it was a proper organisation. And I had to learn processes. And I had to learn hierarchies and customers and all of that. So that was that was where my career really started. And my career has never left the industry since then. So

Andy Follows: 12:36

Well we'll go into that I'm just noticing that you still, you had to learn that there was other ways to use your strength than forensic science. And now that you've embraced strengths as a concept, and the the Gallup Strengths Finder, looking back, it's probably helpful to you can see that now. So what was it about being a forensic scientist that appealed? And how were you able to use your strengths in an office environment that you can now look back and see ah it was Yes, I understand why I was able to do that.

Jodie Monaghan: 13:12

Curiosity, I think probably more than anything I love, not really knowing, and then seeking to understand and really trying not to assume things, I think that's my big thing, I've really learned quite a lot, you can assume something can be really, really wrong. But actually, if you're not, then you can just open this whole world. And just information and opinions and alternative solutions can come at you. And you can be really informed by the end of the journey, if you are just curious. And I think that is something that was a part of my DNA, I guess that would have worked in both worlds.

Andy Follows: 13:51

Yeah, great example. So it would obviously be very helpful for a forensic scientist to be curious and open minded and not make assumptions. And you've discovered that that actually plays out really well in an office environment as well

Jodie Monaghan: 14:04

It really does. Yeah, it does, especially with what I probably lent myself to the people and culture side of office life. So when you when you're trying to build relationships and get the best out of people, I think that's where it really plays to its strength.

Andy Follows: 14:21

And when you got that first job then at Lex, how did you get that job?

Jodie Monaghan: 14:25

I canvassed all of the Marlow businesses with a handwritten CV and I popped it I went into there's an industrial site called Globe Park and where they were based, and I went, I just went down to all of them and put my CV through and was lucky enough to get a an interview.

Andy Follows: 14:44

So was the handwritten was that a marketing approach? Because there were photocopiers and you're not that old. There were photocopies there were printers. So was that a personal touch that you were

Jodie Monaghan: 14:58

It was. Maybe not quite as Mmm, I don't think it's quite as thought through as I wish it might have been, but I wanted to use different colour pens. So at that point that was my way of doing it. And I say CV I mean that's probably clutching a little bit, it was a little bit more about give me a chance to do something. I've worked in a stationers.

Andy Follows: 15:18

So, talk us through your early period at Lex them.

Jodie Monaghan: 15:24

So my first job was in Lex Vehicle Partners so the broker part of Lex and it was a quite a small team. And I felt a little bit like we were the poor relative to Lex Vehicle Leasing. They were just a much bigger beast. And we were upstairs in a little corner. But very well respected by the end of understanding how we fit in with the business and things like that just because we were small. And I felt like we were this small poor relative. And I guess we were in some respects, but it was a really lovely environment. And you could move around, it's very open office, so you moved around all the other departments and marketing were upstairs as well and tele marketing. And yeah, it was really good. I never really ventured down to Lex Vehicle Leasing until I went for a job downstairs and then went into the crazy world of downstairs, which was very intimidating.

Andy Follows: 16:18

Okay, we'll come to that in short order. What I'm noticing, though, is that benefit of being in a smaller team within a larger organisation. So you tend to get more exposure more to do you've got a broader role. And then also a little bit of curiosity and having other departments around you that if you're a social outgoing person, like you are there, I imagine you were and curious, you were finding out how all the parts fitted together. Yeah.

Jodie Monaghan: 16:48

And it was I think, Lex Vehicle Partners in particular, you did, you knew everybody that did everything, and you understood what they did. So the people in the next bank, and there were people based in Manchester, you were talking all of the time, because every every bit that you did touched somebody else, because it was that much smaller. So you really did get a grasp really quickly in there. Probably more than I ever I ever did really and Lex because you knew every single person, you knew what every single person did, and you were able to because of the scale of it.

Andy Follows: 17:19

So what made you want to go downstairs to Lex Vehicle Leasing

Jodie Monaghan: 17:23

An opportunity presented itself to start with, and it just felt like the next step. So it was I was order processing. And then the next role was to be a sales Exec. So it just felt like the next step up. So it's quite exciting as well as a little bit intimidating. But yeah, yeah, so that's the right thing to do to even at that age, I think I was 19 to progress, you sort of saw where the next step was, and that was definitely it.

Andy Follows: 17:53

So you said that you wanted to earn your own money quite early in the story. And it sounds like you had some ambition. You wanted to be independent, and you'd seen the work ethic of your parents. So does that feel like something you were born with? That ambition?

Jodie Monaghan: 18:10

Not born with. I think I was

Andy Follows: 18:13

something you learned

Jodie Monaghan: 18:14

Influenced and moulded. If you know if we wanted to go on holiday, you know, I'd see my mum saving money in the summer holiday, she would take us away and she'd she had a little pot actually that she had put money in and it would be like the holiday fund money that didn't come massively easily to us. So everything sort of had a bit of a value. And I think that's probably what influenced me so much with money that you had to work hard to earn it to enjoy it. It wasn't just a given that you would get anything you wanted very easily. You had to make a plan and we did little chores and things to earn money that you know you could do it. Many a time I remember in the summer holidays, taking a bucket and going and knocking on neighbours doors and saying can we wash your car and it was great fun. But where I lived, it was on an estate. And everybody knew everybody and really celebrated sort of like playing outside and everyone knew everyone's neighbours. You could run in each other's houses and all things like that. So you'd knock on the door and can I clean your car? And they'd be like, Yeah, of course. So then you'd earn a couple of pounds. And then you could go and spend it on what you wanted. So I've always sort of had that if you wanted to do something you had to work hard to earn it

Andy Follows: 19:27

So you were prepared to put yourself get out of your comfort zone go to the area of the business that was a bit daunting because you recognised it was a step up. And how did it work out? How did you were now going to be a sales executive?

Jodie Monaghan: 19:39

Yes, I wish I probably would have known now a few bits are at that point because I wish I'd have asked a lot of questions then when I started but I felt I probably should know a little bit more. Because I'd worked upstairs for a year. I felt like I should know what was going on downstairs. But there was two entirely different businesses. And I didn't ask some questions about quoting and rate books for a much longer time than I should have. And had, I've just asked those questions earlier, I think I would have felt a lot more comfortable, a lot more competent. It came in the end, but I made it more difficult for myself, instead of just saying, I don't know, Can someone explain? But of course you do you learn from all of those things, don't you? So I've never never shy to ask a question if I don't know the answer now.

Andy Follows: 20:24

Yes, so you've did you feel that if I've got this job I should know the answer to this? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Very common, and very unhelpful.

Jodie Monaghan: 20:37

It really is, I think, how I could have been a lot more effective, which is probably all my bosses wanted. And had, I have just asked the question, instead of pretending and trying to take a really long time to do something I could have done a lot quicker. And yes, it was definitely a learning for me when I reflected on that time.

Andy Follows: 20:56

That's a great point, lesson for all of us. So what strengths were you playing to in the sales exec role?

Jodie Monaghan: 21:03

So this was probably my first proper exposure to external relationships. So I had dedicated accounts that I looked after. So I was I supported an account manager and his accounts, I would look after so like their day to day contact. And it wasn't until I built, you know, understood what rapport was, and built relationships. And then you can have these really honest conversations, but you can actually ask these questions about where is it you're trying to get to? What is it you really want? You know, and you couldn't do that unless you had built these relationships. So at first, I was all polite, and I just, you know, do whatever is asked, Oh, yep, sure I can do that, then when you get to quoting is like, what is it you need? Then I can try and help you. And I can probably help you in a much better way, if I understand what the goal is, rather than just saying, yes. But that took a good few months to build those relationships up with these external contacts that I had. It's just a lot of it was over the phone at that point. But yeah, so relationships for me, then I kind of knew the value or learnt to see what the value was of relationships.

Andy Follows: 22:09

Yeah, I can imagine you being exceptionally good. Well I don't need to imagine, I've seen you do it. Makes a lot of sense. And how long did you do that for?

Jodie Monaghan: 22:21

I was there in total for nearly five years, I think. And then I just got this bug I needed to go travelling. And just I don't know if this is good advice. So maybe don't take this as good advice, but this is what I did.

Andy Follows: 22:35

Let me take a moment to tell you about our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by ASKE Consulting who are experts in executive search, resourcing solutions and talent management across all sectors of the automotive industry in the UK and Europe. I've known them for almost 20 years, and I can think of no more fitting sponsor for Career-view Mirror, they're the business we go to at Aquilae when we're looking for talent for our clients and for projects that we're working on. ASKE was founded by Andrew McMillan, whose own automotive career includes board level positions with car brands and leasing companies. All ASKE consultants have extensive client side experience, which means they bring valuable insight and perspective for both their employer and candidate customers. My earliest experience of working with Andrew was back in 2004, when he helped me hire regional managers from my leasing Sales Team at Alphabet. More recently, when Aquilae was helping a US client to establish a car subscription business. ASKE Consulting was alongside us helping us to develop our people strategy, and to identify and bring onboard suitable talent. Clients we've referred to ASKE have had an equally positive experience. Andrew and the team at ASKE are genuinely interested in the long term outcomes for you and the people they place with you. They even offer the reassurance of a two year performance guarantee, which means they have skin in the game when working with you. If you're keen to secure the most talented and high potential people to accelerate your business and gain competitive advantage, do get in touch with them and let them know I sent you. You can email Andrew the team at hello@ASKEConsulting.co.uk or check out their website for more details and more client feedback at www.ASKEConsulting.co.uk. ASKE is spelt A S K E. You'll find these contact details in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let's get back to our episode.

Jodie Monaghan: 24:31

I walked down to Marlow High Street in my lunch hour and I went and got a loan from the bank and I came back in and said I'm going travelling. So it's just a really spontaneous sort of decision. I knew someone that was had been planning it for a long time and I thought I want to do this and if I don't do it now, I'm probably not going to so I did and I loved it.

Andy Follows: 24:57

And where did you go?

Jodie Monaghan: 24:58

I did Australia which I just thought was amazing. And then I did Thailand and got stuck there. I didn't get stuck there. I chose to get stuck there. I overstayed my visa and all sorts, which was a disaster, but sorted that out, thankfully, was allowed to leave the country. But that was it was brilliant. I lived with a family over there totally embraced the way of life. And yeah, I just absolutely loved it.

Andy Follows: 25:25

What age were you then?

Jodie Monaghan: 25:27

23 24? Yes. So

Andy Follows: 25:31

And how long were you away for?

Jodie Monaghan: 25:32

Seven months.

Andy Follows: 25:34

Right. Did you set out for seven months? Or did you think I'm just gonna go? What were your thoughts?

Jodie Monaghan: 25:39

I had an intention of being out a lot longer. And I wanted to do South America. So that's still on my bucket list really to go on some nice holidays there. But my nan got ill. And we're all a very close family. So I wanted to come back. My family was uming and ahring, do they tell me do they? But they did. And I'm really delighted they did because I got to spend some last weeks with my nan and yeah, you know, it was an open ended trip and that it kind of made sense to do that. So no regrets there.

Andy Follows: 26:09

And then what happened job wise, when you came back?

Jodie Monaghan: 26:12

I didn't want to work. I was like, right, I'm going to travel. I'm going to travel. I had dreadlocks and all sorts of when I came back, I really embraced the traveller, life. But a friend of mine that worked at Lex had got a job at Alphabet. And said, I think you should think about coming and working here. It's really lovely vibe. I think you'd really enjoy it, you know a little bit about the industry. And I thought okay, yeah, I'll do that. And thankfully, Leslie Brookman decided to employ me.

Andy Follows: 26:43

And what happened to the dreadlocks,

Jodie Monaghan: 26:45

they came off, my granddad did not approve of them whatsoever. And my mom was like what's happened to your gorgeous curly hair. So thankfully, I've got such a huge head of hair, taking them out, didn't ruin my hair too much. It took a little bit of recovery. But

Andy Follows: 27:05

we've got all the details on this programme. So you joined Alphabet. Tell us a little bit about your journey through Alphabet.

Jodie Monaghan: 27:16

So I joined alphabet in the Customer Services teams. And again, it was part of a bigger organisation. And we were in Europa house at the time and just a quite small, I think maybe there were about 40 people when I joined. But again, it was lovely, because it was you could see it all right from when you walked through the door, and you could see up to like, there were some filing cabinet drawers, floor to ceiling. And that was our little area. And you knew as you walked through what everybody did, you said good morning to everybody. Everyone said good morning back. And it was yet another small but part of something large, did customer services for a while had a couple of key accounts and again was really nice to build relationships with the account management team and the customer contacts, then moved into a sales exec role, again, started doing some quoting, and then had an opportunity to be a team leader. And that was my first real step into people management. And I mean, for me, the hardest transition I've done in my whole career, going from within the team to being the team leader, I felt like an imposter. You didn't want to do certain things with people that you used to work with. And suddenly you've got this new appreciation of, oh, you need to actually manage these things. So if people are sick, or if they're late, or if they're not answering phone calls, there's an impact that I'm now responsible for making sure that they can do or that I'm managing. So when you're you're asking these questions, I had this sort of epiphany of, oh, that's why they need to know or that's that's how this works. So that's how that feels. And I had no idea that that's what you had to go through as a kind of team leader. Whilst balancing the I used to work with you. And now I'm asking you these things. So yeah, that was, I would say still, to this day, the hardest thing I did from moving roles.

Andy Follows: 29:20

So big, a big step up. And very interesting the stuff that we just not aware of until we're aware of it.

Jodie Monaghan: 29:28

Yeah, absolutely no, no appreciation for it whatsoever. In actual fact, probably. I was thinking, you know, do these things really matter? Like, why did you know team leaders always ask these questions or want to know this or have to report on X, Y and Zed? Of course, I was just doing the stuff. And then suddenly, I'm now responsible for reporting some data or so you need to know for different things and I just never appreciated it. So

Andy Follows: 29:55

Did that mean that you explained it to people why You were asking?

Jodie Monaghan: 30:01

Yeah, you had to, I think that was the thing that got the buy in. That's exactly what it was, you don't know, what you don't know. So I think the only way I can get everybody to help me is if they understand why I actually need it. Which then means you're having to have those conversations and then flexing your style. Again, there's something else that I've learned a little bit more of now, but didn't realise at the time to try and get the best out of everybody or get them to do what you wanted. You had to sort of speak to one person in this way and get them to understand it by having this conversation and then somebody else this way. I didn't know what I was doing it at the time by doing that, but I look back. And that was probably the first time I really started to flex my style, to get the best out of other people or get the best reaction or build those relationships.

Andy Follows: 30:51

And once you'd stepped up into this role, and you'd got over that initial difficulty, how did it go for

Jodie Monaghan: 30:57

I loved it. I knew that was what I wanted to you? do after that. So I knew I could get some really good things out of people. And it kind of flummoxed me actually, because now I had this team. And it was working really well. And I could have these really great conversations with people. And I was thinking, I don't know that this sounds a bit conceited now, doesn't it? But not, maybe not everybody does that. And I was just I was loving it. So I was sort of thinking, this is definitely what I should be doing.

Andy Follows: 31:30

Yeah, maybe I'm quite good at this. Yeah. We've talked about strengths a number of times already in this conversation, and you were in a good place you were able to play to your communication strengths, your people strengths.

Jodie Monaghan: 31:45

Absolutely. Yeah.

Andy Follows: 31:46

I'm thinking how wonderful it is that at that point, you were recognising. I'm in the right place. This is what I want to be doing. How did that affect your approach to it?

Jodie Monaghan: 31:56

I really wanted to make it work. I really wanted this to be my opportunity. And then and then that's when I think I became ambitious. I knew I wanted the manager role after that. Not straightaway, you know, I wanted to get good at what I was doing. But as soon as I really felt Yeah, this is what I'm good at. I thought I know what I want next. So you're always I am, I'm always playing for that next opportunity. So there wasn't a role. At that point, no one was leaving, no one was even indicating they were going to, but I knew I wanted it. And if it came up, I wanted to be the person that was in that position to be the right person. So that was my drive from then on. I just wanted to be recognised as she's the best person for that, whenever it comes, it can be quite unrewarding, a little bit if you want something and you're not really sure it's possible. But you kind of know you're creating the opportunity. So it kind of gives you a bit of energy to keep on even though it's not presented itself yet. You do know eventually that will come. Or you hope it will.

Andy Follows: 33:00

Yeah. One of their contributing factors to Fulfilling Performance is one of the questions we ask is how much does it mean to you what you're doing? And it sounds like it really meant you'd got it all figured out that this was meaningful work for you.

Jodie Monaghan: 33:19

Yeah, I think I knew I wasn't necessarily the best at some bits of the job. Not the team leader role. But like the team that I was looking at, you could see when you're looking after group of people, you can see that person is brilliant at that that person is brilliant at that. And you know, I just felt I can create the best team. And it doesn't mean mean, you have to be the best person at all of this stuff. But my role here is sort of like helping grow that and make the most out of it all. So then I started worrying less about what I couldn't do. And just focus on what I could. So

Andy Follows: 33:54

You recognised you had a job to do that wasn't what the team members were doing. Yeah, that's again, another really valuable lesson. Because it stops you interfering in what they're doing.

Jodie Monaghan: 34:08

Absolutely. And they get the recognition they want out of their strength for being brilliant at what they're doing. And you've just suddenly got this dynamic. It's almost kind of getting rid of the competition, the unhealthy competition anyway, that you're really good at that you're really good at that. Together we could do this. So I just Yeah, I loved all of that. I just think it was brilliant. And you can do little projects or focus on something and you can say, right, you want to do that and someone feels like they're winning, don't they? I can I can get to do this project. I am really enjoying and I love that's brilliant. Love it. You just you can watch someone can't you just flourish and bloom.

Andy Follows: 34:51

You can if you set yourself up in the way that you did. So I'm picturing now you've recognised that there isn't a role necessarily available, there isn't an opportunity. So the best thing for you to do is to build a really strong team and practice being a good leader of that team and not compete with the members in the team, but rather notice their strengths and create opportunities for them to play to their strengths and grow. All sounds absolutely wonderful, Jodie, so what happened? What opportunities were you able to create for yourself or what came up?

Jodie Monaghan: 35:27

It didn't actually for quite a while, but it did mean I could get really good at my job. Well in my eyes, let everyone else make comment on that. But I did it meant I was really able to become confident, which I think was probably, although I was really striving to I would have liked to have been a manager, you know, two years into the role. It took a lot longer. But I think I learned a lot. I had experiences there. And then I had again some really great people that I worked with. And I remember being taken on a prospect meeting. So it's slightly outside of what I did. So I looked after the customer service team. And this was just to go in and talk a little bit about some of the processes we did out of my comfort zone wasn't really what I thought my strength was. But I just had this belief. And it was Bernadette McGuire said, you're the best person for this. And she really built me up before I went in, I just want you to talk about what you know how you do it, what value adds kind of set me up it and I thought, oh, yeah, I can do that. And then in the meeting, I was so able to answer everything that I got asked. So it was a it was a very good first meeting in that regard. I didn't I wasn't asked anything challenging, or something that I didn't want to answer. Then I thought, oh, there's other things I can do here that can add value and can grow my experience of the business or add value to other areas that I didn't quite think of before. And then when my manager did move on, I went for the job and went through an interview process and felt very vulnerable, and then got the manager role. But I knew everything I had learned that these kinds of add ons or kind of ancillary roles that I took on, that weren't necessarily my primary role really helped me through that process to what I hope meant I was the right person for the job.

Andy Follows: 37:18

Congratulations. Then what you've made me think about is often I come across people who and it's, it's it's one of the sort of unfairnesses, I mean, life is unfair. But people think that if I do a good job and keep my head down, the organisation will reward me they'll notice my strengths, they'll give me the right opportunities, what's your view on?

Jodie Monaghan: 37:46

I mean, there's definitely a little bit of that you absolutely. But you've got to put yourself out there. And it's only when you do those little things. And they can be little or they can be quite huge in your world, you've got to put yourself out there, as long as it's not within the realms of damaging, but do things that make you a bit uncomfortable if you're supported, or you've got somebody that might be able to help you a little bit, put yourself out of your hand up ask for it. I don't believe that people would let you necessarily trip up, if they you know, could see that happening. I had an opportunity to do something that somebody believed in me and gave me a bit of encouragement. But I never would have done that had I have just stayed in my lane. I also think sometimes that those types of things, people think, oh, it's not my job, I don't think I should be doing that. And I think that can keep you I don't know the word is, but you wouldn't look outside of your world, then, would you and it's only when you get those additional experiences. And I think when I was at Alphabet, what I think was really good is it was encouraged to not just move upwards, but move sideways as well. And when you think about breadth of knowledge, it's amazing what you can use in different areas of the business because of what you've done somewhere else. So that all of that is just exposure, you're increasing what you can learn, you're more invested in things you understand things better, I guess it plays into the curiosity bit, doesn't it but you don't have to be an expert or know everything. But I really do believe you should put yourself out there. And again, not to not to damage yourself, but put yourself out there within just outside of your comfort zone. take little steps and then you never know what opportunity might come from that.

Andy Follows: 39:27

And for you, it was eventually the manager position. You'd wanted it you'd work towards it. You'd have liked it sooner when you got it you were well experienced. How was the reality of that role?

Jodie Monaghan: 39:41

I mean, there is no way I could have done that before I did. So I might have wanted it earlier but once I started doing it, it was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be. I still absolutely loved it and I still love being responsible for all of the teams But the responsibility then changed. So where I thought I was, I knew all about responsibility for my team, it was really safe. And I really knew my remit. And suddenly it was a much bigger remit, but then it had impact on a lot of other areas. So suddenly, I was speaking with the finance manager, and I just didn't really I saw finance, but I didn't have anything to do with them. I let them get on with what they did. And suddenly, we were impacting finance. And I needed to understand how that was happening. And all of a sudden, all these other responsibilities were coming in I, again, I hadn't quite appreciated till I was in that role,

Andy Follows: 40:38

which you can laugh about now? Yeah. So it's helpful sometimes, isn't it when the organisation takes charge of the timing? Yeah. Because we don't know what we don't know.

Jodie Monaghan: 40:49

And I think you do need to respect the fact that No. people can see that. I think being keen and making sure people know what you want to do is a really great thing. But yeah, I think probably a few people could see maybe I wasn't quite ready until I was, which is really good.

Andy Follows: 40:59

Yeah that is good. And, yeah, I think it's important to be to show you're keen, if people don't know you're keen, then they're not going to include you necessarily in their thoughts, their decision making.

Jodie Monaghan: 41:17

Absolutely. I think that all of the time, I don't think I've ever seen anybody go for an interview. And, you know, unfortunately not be successful at that time. And it not be a good thing for them. Suddenly, they're being talked about, did you know that they were interested in this? No, I had no idea. And now you can see that they are and then you think as well, you want to invest in them. And if there is something that maybe they weren't quite good enough at or don't have enough experience in suddenly you say, well, let's invest in that then. And it's really, really good for them in that regard. So I think yeah, even when you can, you might think at the time that you're disappointed in not being successful. I think it can create lots of other opportunities anyway, which might even be better in the long run.

Andy Follows: 41:59

Yes, super point. So you got the manager position, and it was harder than you thought it was going to be. But you were ready enough to be able to navigate these new responsibilities, much broader responsibilities, different departments you have to deal with. And how long did you stay in that position? And are there any sort of notable moments from that phase of your career that you want to share?

Jodie Monaghan: 42:22

I think that was the first time I felt senior. I

Andy Follows: 42:24

What sort of things were you learning Jodie felt very proud of that. So that up'd my, what I didn't know what it was level of wanting to do a good job, I kind of I could feel a real step change in responsibility and wanting to do a good job. And then I wanted to learn more, that I found quite difficult, because I felt like I should again, know everything, because I was a bit more senior. But there are absolutely things I would never have had exposure to or no experience of. So why would I have known those things? So to put myself out there and learn things, I kind of forgot as well how hard it was to learn, and how exhausting that was, but did that and I learned probably the most I ever learned as a Customer Service Manager, and then went into purchasing. in that role?

Jodie Monaghan: 43:17

The importance of doing things properly, is probably the biggest thing. So the effort, we would look at agreements and things and we had conditional formatting and dynamic kind of if statements, if and if and if and if you didn't do them right, the impact of what would happen to some somebody in their experiences with us. But that took months, there was quite a few of us that worked on these and updating them and making sure that there were the right pieces of legislation in there or anything to do with a particular scheme or how that had been set up. And it did take months. But once it was done, it just made everything run really, really smoothly. But I just I didn't know at the time, like it was worth all of the effort until afterwards, and doing things like that, and knowing that you're responsible. And really there was a team of us that were doing that. No one had told us we had to do that was just the right thing to do. So it took somebody and you know us to make sure we were doing the right thing, which definitely wasn't the easiest thing. So that's probably what I learnt there. And then then I went into purchasing, I was the purchasing manager. And that was again, the broadness kind of sidestep, I took a lot of learnings from customer services into purchasing and then expanded relationships and negotiations. And again, the impact of the role was quite big. We were looking at you know, getting new terms for new model releases and trying to get the best we could out of the relationships we had with the OEMs I loved that role, was absolutely brilliant. It played into the social played into really externships and it was quite process driven as well. And I was, this is the first time as far as really, really lucky to do process reviews, and redefine how we did some things. I restructured the department. And that was just brilliant eyes, I was able to kind of go in with a fresh pair of eyes, customer services, obviously, I've gone up through the ranks. So I was just I just did what we always did. And it worked really well. But going into purchasing, I had a new vision and was able to bring that to life. And I love that piece of the role. And I did that for a couple of years. And then within the same organisation did a change role. After that. We were moving campus. So putting all of the BMW Group companies together. So it's a really big cultural piece, you had to take everybody on a journey, you had to do it in a way that was really considered. And it just gave me exposure to another side of corporate world, people culture, the influence of if you get things right. And right isn't necessarily right for everybody. But it's you've got to be clear in what you're doing, have conviction in your actions, and take people on a journey with you. And if you do that, it can be really monumental. I thought that was a wonderful role. And that's where I moved in, left there and went to Tusker after that took all of those learnings and went to Tusker

Andy Follows: 46:20

Yeah, so before we follow you to Tusker, I'm just thinking in terms of that big transformation that you were involved with. It took me back to your very first team leader realisation that I need to explain to people why we're doing this,

Jodie Monaghan: 46:38

absolutely, then I think I was probably still a bit of a people pleaser. And actually, you can't please

Andy Follows: 46:42

And did you follow through did you go through the everybody all the time. So you have to be really authentic in what you're doing and what your actions are, and have to be, I'm doing this because of this. And it's going to add this value. Because people are uncomfortable with change, even really good positive change, or as you see it, positive change is can be uncomfortable for some people. So you really have to flex and take people on a journey with you. And you could only do that. I think if you're saying I'm being really authentic here, and this is the reason why I'm doing this, and this is what I believe in. So people can see they don't always have to agree, but they can see what you believe in because it makes sense then, that was again, difficult. For me. We did a programme called What Moves You? to try and help people. And I think that this is just brilliant. Why wouldn't anyone just be so excited about this? But of course, there's so many other things and so many other elements. And people were personally saying, How does this impact me? What does this mean for me? I'm really quite comfortable in what I do and comfortable is really important. So I was like, oh, okay, and again, had to sit there and explain or make sure people were informed communicate really well listen really well. So yeah, so I learned a lot from that again, which is brilliant, because I was in a role I loved and I was still learning. So that was exciting. move yourself?

Jodie Monaghan: 48:12

I just about got everyone to Farnborough and as everyone went to Farnborough. That's when I I was like, that's a nice clean break. So I spent a lot of time in hardhats and getting Farnborough to where it was for me, I didn't actually sit at a desk there.

Andy Follows: 48:29

So what was the reason for moving? How did that come about?

Jodie Monaghan: 48:32

So I knew a couple of people from the industry. You know, it's a big industry but it's actually quite small when you look at the relationships and things you have and Tusker were really interesting to me because they were small. And I knew a lot of people, we'd worked a little bit with them. I really liked the culture and that they weren't the biggest, they weren't the best. And I thought, I think I can go there and make a difference. So there was an element of from my personal ambitions that I wanted to make a difference. I want to be that person that makes a difference. And within something as big as what Alphabet was then or the BMW Group, I thought I did make a bit of a difference, but I knew I could make more somewhere else. So that's why I did that.

Andy Follows: 49:17

And did you go looking for that? Or did that find you?

Jodie Monaghan: 49:21

I didn't go looking for it. But I think just because of how I was I was always speaking with people always meeting up. We were at industry events, Alphabet and Tusker worked together, and I'd always be up for going to their offices and things like that. So I don't know that necessarily they were looking for me but because we'd come across each other a lot. We were you know, I knew a couple of people that worked there. And I guess there was an opportunity and would I be interested

Andy Follows: 49:52

And what was the opportunity?

Jodie Monaghan: 49:54

To create the Academy, which was their learning and development programme, I guess Well, let's say it didn't exist at the time, but it was just about how do you get you the best out of our people. And there was a blank canvas. And it was just up to me what I wanted to do. And I thought, this really, really sounds exciting. So that is what I joined Tusker to go and do

Andy Follows: 50:16

And how did you set about it?

Jodie Monaghan: 50:18

So, met everybody in the business and tried to collect as much information from them as I possibly could about what they did. And it was too much this kind of not, I had this idea of a knowledge repository. And it was it was madness. So it was much bigger than I thought it was going to be. And then partnered with a learning management system and kind of created a gamified platform for knowledge and learning and, and things like that. So it was it's brilliant, fun. And we kind of turned learning into if you could put knowledge in, and then you could get knowledge out. So it just kept on building. So all of the specialists or SMEs, they put everything in and other people learnt from it. They learned from things that other people were doing, we did interactive overviews and unorthodox ways of learning. It was yeah, it's brilliant. So it's very creative, really engaging. And yes, it was a huge success.

Andy Follows: 51:14

It sounds like you made learning a normal part of everyday life. Yeah, an expectation.

Jodie Monaghan: 51:22

It was and it was there was a little bit of competition. And what I really really found was very, very invested in so the directors at Tusker really believed in investing in their people. So that takes a lot of time to do learning development, and you've got jobs to do. And sometimes that can cause a bit of conflict. But this was fully invested in so you had time every day to do something. We had light bites, we had longer training sessions. So you could do something nearly every day. So it did become part of the DNA, of what we did. And learning was looked at as a really, really good thing. The more you know, the more you feel invested in, the more you develop, the better you can be at your job, the happier you'll be, the better our customers will feel. So it just became this organism really within within the business, which is just wonderful.

Andy Follows: 52:13

Or is that still a vibrant part of the culture now? That sounds very, very positive, and a great

Jodie Monaghan: 52:16

Yeah, it's changed quite a lot now. But contribution to the business. So you did that for a while. What yeah, so we've still got we've got dedicated Academy space, we've got dedicated roles, I don't do it anymore, but handed was your What did you do after that? over the baton. And it's brilliant. So we've got two long serving people actually kind of put their hands up said I would really love to be doing something like this. And they put their own flavour on things. And it's really authentic. And they've seen gaps and kind of focused on those bits. It's very different, but still very, it's brilliant. So it's a focus on new starters. And then existing staff as well. So you can sort of get the blend of which I think works really well. I went back to customer services, not my intention at all, but Kit came in to the business as the ops director, and I'd worked with him at Alphabet and the old Head of Customer Services have moved over to commercial and there was an opportunity there. And I had a conversation with Kit. And I thought, yeah, I remember Kit. I liked working with him, I think I can work well for him. Can I change a few bits though, that was kind of my negotiation with that. And he was very, very supportive and said, yes, it's your world. Yeah, just if you come and do that and make a success of it, I fully support you.

Andy Follows: 53:37

What did you see that you wanted to change,

Jodie Monaghan: 53:39

there was a really front and back office structure to customer services. I didn't like customer services, either I thought customer services sounded old fashioned or like a factory or something. So I wanted it to be customer experience. So I was allowed to change the name, I changed the structure so that every specialist team was also customer facing. So the experts were talking to the end user, because what used to happen if you'd have admin teams that would do the calculations or do the work, do the process. And then someone else would speak to them, which meant they weren't. It was either at its very best, a little bit inefficient. And maybe at its worst, you weren't talking to the person that knew everything about it. So very, very quickly, we changed that. And then you've got people that are really engaged in delivering a great service because of the great work that they're doing. And they get recognised for the great work they're doing directly with the person they're doing it for they get to ask all the right questions, again, talking to someone about what is what are you trying to achieve? I can deliver that for you. So that was quite a big change, which I think has and still is there today that I think worked really, really well for us. So I was really excited to be allowed to go in and do that. And the team's all responded really well to it. And then it's kind of grown this continual improvement culture within the team. So some of the team leaders and the managers came up with what we call, like our improvement log, and everyone just puts their ideas and how they think they can bring these things to life. And not everything works. We do look into absolutely everything. And people just constantly look for ways to make things better. And it's small, and it's agile. So you can do that. I mean, Tusker's got a lot bigger actually now, and obviously, we're part of something much bigger. But we are able to, if it's a good idea, to go and do it. And that's a really healthy way for people to strive to keep making things better, because they can see it happen.

Andy Follows: 55:41

Absolutely, they're getting very motivated, it makes it meaningful. So you took that step back into customer service, rebranded it as customer experience made some fundamental changes to the structure so that customers were talking directly to the most knowledgeable person, so they were getting a much better experience. And those individuals were getting the rewards of being able to help people and knowing that the good work they were doing was providing value. Sounds really good. And where are you at now Jodie, is that where you're?

Jodie Monaghan: 56:13

I think so I think I was very, very lucky and honoured to be promoted within my own world last year to customer experience director, that was personally probably my greatest achievement in my career. And now, I've put in place some things that I think really helped with customer satisfaction. And I've got a team that looks after our more challenging situations. And they now do a lot of analysis on root cause and trends. And again, it's taken a lot of effort to kind of collect the data and put the things in place so that we can actually have as much data as we do. But now we can feed back into the business to say, we've identified something, and we can help make it better. So our resolutions team, I'm sure they won't mind me saying this. But if they would have come over to someone's desk, maybe 18 months ago, you'd hear a groan, or know what's happened, what's gone wrong. And now if they come over, they're really well received. Because I say, look, we've seen X, Y, and Zed, I think we can help at least facilitate some ideas or some ways of making things better, or improving things, which then people see happening, and they get the benefit from it. So it's a much a much healthier and much more positive experience. But that's really, really created a lovely culture. And that's what I'm really excited about at the moment. And we're really focusing on customer satisfaction and continual improvement.

Andy Follows: 57:37

I'm loving this story. We started talking about strengths. And you said when you got that first team role I think it was, you said, I'm in the right place, yes, is what I want to be doing. And you've gone from strength to strength, if you like, you've put yourself out of your comfort zone, you've taken on extra responsibilities, you've looked for opportunities, you've stepped up when the opportunities arose. And you stayed in an environment or you've created a much larger environment for yourself where you can still love what you're doing and be effective at it. Is there anything I haven't asked you Jodie that means I've missed something from your journey?

Jodie Monaghan: 58:17

not that you haven't asked me. But one of the things I did within customer experience, I think I mentioned this earlier on. But I did some I did a few things that I don't mean this in a rude way. But I didn't get recognised for but I did it because it was the right thing to do. And I was sort of creating the next opportunity. So I took on our purchasing team. So I have orders and deliveries. Now that I didn't really need to do, but I could see the value in it. And I could see what I could create everyone was driver facing again. So a lot of purchasing departments would be back office functions, or they'd be processing orders. But these in this world, we talk to drivers, and we encourage that, so took that on. And I did that for a while. And I think that's helped me as well. Because that kind of grew things for me, I got exposure again, to a world that I was familiar with. I knew I could add value and I knew that I could take responsibility for so it was just more about playing into that I guess that maybe I did that with a long term view that hopefully that would result in something good that on a personal level didn't maybe bring that straight away. In actual fact, I took on more responsibility for something you know, so it actually was a bit more difficult at the beginning but now it's part of my world and I love it and I can influence it and it's it's part of something and part of customer experience. And yes, so that things like that, I think a great

Andy Follows: 59:39

Great example. So you saw saw these things not as extra work. Yes, extra responsibility, but not a burden, but extra opportunity. I can go there I can learn about that. I can add that string to my bow I can influence it. And if you would that perspective on it. Yeah, it seems more I can investment than a.

Jodie Monaghan: 1:00:01

That's, that's that's the best word for it. I think it was an investment. Exactly.

Andy Follows: 1:00:06

Thank you so much, Jodie, it's been an absolute pleasure as I knew it would be to sit and hear your story. Thanks for sharing it with us, so many helpful insights that you you know, some epiphanies you had yourself on the journey that you shared that other people can benefit from. So highly appreciated. Thank you.

Jodie Monaghan: 1:00:27

Well, thank you very much. It's a joy speaking to you as well.

Andy Follows: 1:00:34

You've been listening to CAREER-VIEW MIRROR with me, Andy Follows. Depending on your unique life experience, where you find yourself right now and your personal goals, you'll have your own takeaways from Jodie's story. Some elements that stood out for me were her picking up a strong work ethic from her parents and appreciating the value of money from an early age along with her having a desire for independence, the realisation that she was playing up to a persona that wasn't really her when she failed the 12 plus exam, until two teachers took her to one side and told her what they believed she was capable of if she chose to lean in. Her early interest to be a forensic scientist and to leverage her curiosity in that domain. But an accident pulled her out of education. How fortunately, Jodie discovered that she could find another outlet for her strengths and was able to thrive in an office environment. Her learnings when she stepped up to Team Leader beginning to understand the reasons behind some requests and the need to explain why she was asking things of her team. Her enjoying the responsibility and developing an increasing sense of ambition, putting her hand up for projects that represented an investment in her development and increased the breadth of her experience across the business. Realising that she most likely secured the manager role at a good time and may have struggled had it come much earlier. Being able to look on the purchasing department with fresh eyes and propose structural improvements, using her experience to great effect in the transformation project setting up the BMW campus in Farnborough and then choosing to join Tusker to create the Academy and instil a culture of continuous learning before moving back into customer experience and ultimately being promoted to director. If you'd like to connect with Jodie, we'll put her contact details in the show notes to this episode. If you enjoy listening to my guests' stories, please could you do me a favour and share an episode with someone who lead parent or mentor or perhaps a friend of yours who think would also enjoy listening. Thank you to Jodie for joining me for our conversation. Thank you to our sponsors for this episode, ASKE Consulting and Aquilae and thank you to the CAREER-VIEW MIRROR team, without whom we wouldn't be able to share our guests life and career stores. And above all, thank you to you for listening