David Bowles

David is a highly experienced automotive finance professional and a wonderful human being.

 He started work straight from school in a branch of the Midland Bank which is now part of HSBC before finding his way into automotive with Ford Credit. He rose up through the ranks at Ford Credit from trainee Zone Manager to Regional Director in Europe amassing valuable experience on the way.

After taking early retirement he spent a spell managing his local golf club before heading over to Qatar to set up an auto-finance company 

 Having done that, he came back to the UK to set up Tesla Financial Services UK and its shared services operations centre in Amsterdam.

 From there, he went on to complete consulting projects with a start up bank and Ricoh.

 He is now a member of the team at Aquilae the international auto finance consultancy where he has worked on Projects for Fair, the Californian car subscription business, and where he is currently helping an electric bus and van start up prepare to offer financial services to their customers.

David is a wonderful colleague to work with. He is genuinely humble. He understands the automotive finance business inside out and despite his decades of experience he gets genuinely excited by new challenges and relishes finding better ways of doing what we do.

I am delighted to share David's career journey with you. I hope you enjoy it and I look forward to hearing from you.

 Why not follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror where you can comment on the specific episodes that you have enjoyed.

To help you navigate the content we've separated it into chapters which work on Apple Podcasts and certain other streaming platforms.

 This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae.

 Aquilae provides Expertise as a Service to Automotive Finance and mobility businesses internationally.

We are a team of highly experienced professionals with diverse and complementary knowledge, skills, experience and professional networks that we have gained over years working successfully in automotive finance, internationally.

If you're looking to set up a captive finance company for your EV start-up or review and improve systems and processes in your existing business, or you would like to have me as your team coach, email me andy@aquilae.co.uk and let's start a conversation!

 If you enjoyed this podcast please take a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps us grow.

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Episode recorded on 17 May 2021

Transcript

David Bowles: 0:00

"When you've done with the sandwiches and giving out beers, exactly what else would you do?" and I thought to myself, Oh my God, this isn't going very well is it?

Andy: 0:12

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry. Looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host, Andy Follows David Bowles, listeners. David is a highly experienced automotive finance professional and a wonderful human being. He started work straight from school in a branch of the Midland Bank, which is now part of HSBC. before finding his way into automotive with Ford credit, he rose up through the ranks of Ford credit from zone manager to regional director in Europe amassing valuable experience on the way. After taking early retirement, he spent a spell managing his local Golf Club before heading over to Qatar to set up an auto finance company there. Having done that, he came back to the UK to set up Tesla Financial Services UK and its Shared Services operation Centre in Amsterdam. From there he went on to complete consulting projects with a startup bank and Ricoh. He's now a member of the team at Aquilae, the International Auto Finance consultancy where he's worked on projects for Fair the Californian car subscription business, and where he's currently helping an electric bus and van startup prepare to offer financial services to their customers. David is a wonderful colleague to work with. He is genuinely humble. He understands the automotive finance business inside out. And despite his decades of experience, he gets genuinely excited by new challenges and relishes finding better ways of doing what we do. I'm delighted to share David's career journey with you. I hope you enjoy it and I look forward to hearing from you.

Aquilae Academy: 2:09

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. at the academy we turn Individual Development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own Academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide as their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the Academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy: 2:55

Hello, David, and welcome and where are you coming to us from today?

David Bowles: 3:00

Hi, Andy. Great to join you today. I'm in Epping Forest, Theydon Mount that's in the county of Essex, England.

Andy: 3:10

Lovely. Thank you very much. So it's it's north and east of London, would you say?

David Bowles: 3:16

Yeah, that's about right. Yes. And it's wet.

Andy: 3:19

It's wet. Yeah, that won't surprise anybody. I'm sure after all, it is nearly summer. But where did it start for you, David, because I know you weren't born in Essex. So where were you born?

David Bowles: 3:31

Now I wasn't born in Essex. I'm very, very proud to be born in God's own land, which most people understand that is Yorkshire and I was in West Yorkshire. So I was born in Ilkley. And for those people who know the song "Ilkley Moor Baht'at", that means Ilkley Moor without the hat. And yes, I was I was actually born in a convalescent home on the on the moors in Ilkley. So a great a great start to life. And, and that's where basically I grew up for the first 18 years.

Andy: 4:05

Wonderful. And for listeners outside of the UK, Yorkshire is a very special place, isn't it? And I think if if the people of Yorkshire they're very, very proud, and if if they could sort of separate themselves from the rest of the country and be a country in their own right, they'd probably be quite happy with with that is my impression.

David Bowles: 4:27

Well, I won't comment. Actually, I don't want to get into dialogue right at the very beginning, but what I would say is that when the Olympics were held in the UK, and the UK, won their most gold medals ever, I think the Yorkshire content of those gold medal was the highest and actually they won more than some countries combined. So yes.

Andy: 4:49

So that bruises somebody was counting somebody was so you spent 18 years in, in that part of world and tell me a little bit about your family, please. David, what was their family situation? Did you have brothers and sisters growing up? Yeah,

David Bowles: 5:07

well, I am very proud of their car. They're absolutely fantastic family life. So I had a great number dad. My mom was basically retired looking after the kids. My dad was worked in the carpet trade. And in those days it was it was a really it was really buzzy. And he had a fantastic life, travelling the country. And I have a younger brother and two older sisters, all who were living in Italy at the time, obviously. And they've subsequently moved out my one sister lives in Darby. The other sister lives in Beijing. So my brother's stayed true. So he's just outside he'll kiddos in in adding them so

Andy: 5:47

yeah, family ambassador.

David Bowles: 5:49

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Andy: 5:51

Very good. So for children, you were the third and had a had a lovely upbringing. And tell us about school. What was the school situation?

David Bowles: 6:03

school so we went to a comprehensive school, we all went to the same school. Absolutely love school. And for all the wrong reasons, really. So I love I love the sport. I love the rugby. I love the cricket, played for elite, rugby and cricket. So that was that was great joining in with the community there. But unfortunately, I wasn't quite talented enough to to get to the point where I could do both the studying and qualifications and do the sports I think the sport took took preference. And as a result, whilst thoroughly enjoying my school life, I didn't come out to school. With the best of qualifications, I think I scraped for our levels, which it was quite funny actually. Because when it was oh level time, my parents had absolutely no idea the results were out nor do they actually asked me what I got. On the day. I picked up the results that I often and I often laugh with my wife Caroline now is that how times have changed because we've got two daughters now and we'll cover that later, I'm sure. But you know leading up to the exams and then on the day of the exams, it seems completely different. We knew exactly what was happening my parents were totally oblivious, they will just they will just happy that we're enjoying ourselves.

Andy: 7:20

That's That's wonderful. So very supportive. Without being at all intrusive.

David Bowles: 7:24

Our debt, definitely I mean that their version of success was that we did get into trouble and we got home and went to bed.

Andy: 7:33

So just before we move on, talk a little bit about the sport, how long did you carry on the rugby for

David Bowles: 7:39

so I lived, I lived to play properly up until I was about 2526 and then moved or got married and then move about five or six miles away actually to a place called guiseley but continued to play rugby and cricket for free during that period. And when I moved out of play actually away from guys down to the Wakefield Samuel continued rugby there and I think for those people who have done a lot of travelling, whether it's just within your own country or outside, I think the best way to make friends is by joining clubs. You know, I see a lot of people who get very lonely and go back to where they started because they haven't settled and I think that's because they don't always make the effort but we made the effort to join the clubs and you know, join the social life and my wife the kids have been part of that social life as well they made friends with me so it's great when you go to a new place you're making friends together we've and we've kept those friends wherever we've been with with friends which is great. So yeah sports sports really important and now you know obviously a bit old for the for the rugby but played playing golf now. So clubs out and retired. But I've actually one claim to fame actually. So when I was actually deal gay also played a bit of golf in the junior section. And my claim to fame is that I actually was in the junior section with Colin Montgomerie. So he was a member there was calling so Wow, yeah,

Andy: 9:09

yeah. That's pretty impressive.

David Bowles: 9:12

As somebody who I when I was when we moved down to say, and boys actually I joined the golf club there. And I had to go for an interview and they said, you know, what, have you played golf before I said, The I was a junior member Ilkley and they said, Oh, isn't Colin Montgomerie a member than us? Yeah, he was he said, Well, how come your golf isn't as good as Collins? And I said, Well, I went to develop a personality. Because Colin Montgomery is renowned for being a bit grumpy.

Andy: 9:38

Okay, Thanks, David. So going back to school that did was that did you leave school after I levels? David or what happened after that? because that'd be about age 16 that you do your own levels and

David Bowles: 9:50

yeah, 16 1617 Yeah. And now I didn't leave school. Actually, I didn't want to do a levels. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. So I actually went to college and it was part of college part school. And they said, doing a levels of Diploma in Business Studies. So that helped me to do other other topics really other subjects. So we did economics, we did economic geography, history, statistics, etc, which, which is quite interesting, actually. And I think at that point, I'd realised that I really needed to sort of do a little bit of studying and try and get some qualification. So that, that, that that did help. But, you know, a lot of it was interesting, a lot of my friends were automatically going off to university, or we're doing a levels to go off to university, but the university never really appealed to me that much. So, you know, missed out on University. But, you know, as we'll see, as we go through this, this chart, it didn't actually come to to bite me in the bone, which is something that I'm really, really proud of, actually, because I had this little chip on my shoulder about people who would with degrees and people who have gone and, you know, going to graduate schemes, etc. Because, you know, so many people said to me, oh, you won't get on without, without a degree. So I'm proof that it can work if you if you get your head down and work hard. with a, with a bit of luck, I might add with a bit of luck.

Andy: 11:14

Well, I think luck applies to to all of us. And certainly, well, we'll see that as we go through your career journey. What was it then David, you said you started and not your words, but focus a little bit more on the academic side, once you were done your own levels? What was changed your mind making you think you perhaps ought to do something a bit more there?

David Bowles: 11:38

Well, I think I think there's a time in your life, when you actually think that you're either you've had a good, good time, and what you're going to do next, so I had no idea what I wanted to do. So, but I but I did realise that I'd have to have some qualifications, or at least, you know, prove to myself that I could do a little bit better than I had at school, recognising that my next step, if I didn't go to university would actually be going for some form of job. So it was a realisation that, you know, two years time, I'm going to go out there. You know, I, I think one of the things that my dad especially did was that he didn't give us handouts. So you know, whilst we were at school, we were working in a local hotel or a pub to, to earn money, etc. He wasn't one for you know, for giving pocket money or anything he said to you, if you want to go spend it, then go and earn it. So on that on that premise, we realised that if we didn't if we didn't get a job, then we would, we wouldn't be going out. So and I think that was a great way to grow when you when you're part of, you know, a family of four kids. And I don't think my dad and a fortune in the carpet trade because probably because he had such a good time. But yeah, so you realise that you you've got to make, you've got to make your own way. So I think it was it was growing up and realising that really,

Andy: 12:51

right. And then so that was a two year course. And you finished it at? Yeah. And as you started to get some ideas about what you wanted to do yet. Oh, no,

David Bowles: 13:03

no, I wasn't, I still wasn't 100%. So I guess I took the easy route, really. So I actually went to work for middle of bank only because it was seen as a good job. It was seen as a good career. You know, it was it was a well run organisation. And as a first job, I think it would give me the disciplines that I wanted, really so I won't say I went in there with with guns blazing, I sort of drifted into middle and bank and as a means of getting gainfully employed. So yeah, so that's why I started really,

Andy: 13:41

and what what were your first impressions, then when you stepped into the world of work?

David Bowles: 13:47

middle of bank dreadful, absolutely dreadful. It was so rigid and structured. I mean, you you went in, I remember I started on remittances. And I used to go out on a Monday morning, and you'd wait an hour for the first lot of checks to come in, then you'd put them all into alphabetical order and add them all up. And at the end of the day, he thought, oh my goodness, thank god the days Oh, and then you come in and do it the next day. But I mean, that's it's a good discipline to start with. And it's great that you get some structure. But I think I soon realised that. Yeah, and I worked in the bank for five years, actually. But I think I soon realised that, you know, I would have to sort of mature of it because it wasn't, it wasn't what I expected. But what you expect what is your first job, but it was a great, it was a great opportunity. It was great to learn things and, and looking back, I think spending five years there gave me the opportunity to to understand what I really wanted what I want and just as important what I didn't want. And, you know, I work myself up through the bank, I when I left the bank, I was I was head cashier at one of the local branches which means that you know, you're, you're taking in the money you're running the tills you're ordering the money through the, through the central bank, etc. So it was, it was a great, great time made some good friends there understood, you know the importance of having processes in place that he controls in place and making sure that, you know, you keep things safe in terms of money, etc. So it was, it was a very good opportunity to, to learn the ropes and 18. You know, I'm probably two years ahead of most people who would have gone to university. So I think that those two years were well spent, I think, the better well spent working for me then probably going to university. And having a good life, I wish I'd had the previous 18 years

Andy: 15:44

already done new partying, or some of it. But so you said you started to work out what you liked, and what you didn't like, what sort of things were you discovering their joy during that during that time, then

David Bowles: 15:57

I think I think I think one of the things that I knew that I did like was the fact that you're working with a team, that you're all part of the same team, because even when I was on remittances, you know, if I didn't, if I didn't get them to balance at the end of the day, then the whole branch stayed behind to find out where the arrow was not until you found the arrow then need to go home. So we were all, you know, the teamwork was was was something that I really enjoyed it and also meeting people when I was actually on the counter, you know, you'd meet people, it's opportunity to talk to people and you know, just just understand, you know, what these people were going through what was important to them, how you could help them. And then in terms of and then in terms of dislike, as I said, the structure was such that, although there was a career path with a bank, it was more like, you're in some dead man shoes that you didn't move on until somebody retired or somebody left so it wasn't as if you have a career laid out to you. It wasn't the carrot wasn't there that says if you do this, you can get to there. And I think that was one thing that I found a bit stifling really was that the opportunities weren't there. And and you know, that may sound a bit silly when you're already just starting a job. But I am a great believer that, you know, you'll get on in life and you'll get on in your job if, if you like what you're doing. And you feel that there's an incentive there. And I didn't always feel that that was the case in the bank. It appealed to a lot of people because you've got the security there, you know, what you're doing each day, but I think I think the variety piece was missing from me really. And so that's, that's, that's why the that

Andy: 17:38

that was the drawback for the bank. And so let me just keep keep an eye on the geography Where were you?

David Bowles: 17:46

I was still now I was still around, you know, the Oakley ockley area. So it was a market town. So I worked in that branch and in bramhope, near to Yorkshire Cricket Club. That's where there was a sub branch. I ran that for a while, but it was all within the 50 miles of the elk area. So

Andy: 18:04

yeah, yeah, cuz I know you've travelled a lot and so it's nice to keep an eye on on the journey as well. The physical journey. So after those five years, David with Midland Bank, what did Midland Bank become? But what's Midland Bank?

David Bowles: 18:19

HSBC? So, middle and down Clydesdale have and they were purchased by HSBC. Yeah, yeah.

Andy: 18:26

And so after those five years, what happened next? And how did that come about?

David Bowles: 18:34

Our big, I made a very reckless move, actually, which is not likely actually. But sometimes I'm normally quite constantly doing what I do. But I got a little bit I got a little bit bored with with the bank really, as I guess you might understand with what I've just said. And I got lured into the insurance industry where I was offered an opportunity to go and start selling insurance very nicely. And looking back I think it was just a way to get out of the bank to be quite honest. So I went on a I went on a two month course on on insurance selling etc. And then I'll never forget that the day that we started for real we're in their office and will give me a telephone book and get it right off you go and I thought oh my god, what have I done here? So I think that lasted for about three or four months. And then I said no, this is this isn't for me, because you know, it's incredibly difficult. I have a great deal of respect for these people who do cold calling who actually just have it for a living because it is so hard just picking up the phone or even going to see somebody that you don't know has any interest in the product that you're selling. So I just found it. So deflating demoralising, so yeah, I gave that up but you know he got he got me out of it got me out of the bank. Everybody said I was crazy. You know there's a new getting a really good job blah, blah, blah, but and I had given up a really good job. Just a job that wasn't for me. So yeah, so that's, that's what happened next. And then I actually was given the opportunity to buy a friend actually, who said, you know, do do fancy, do something different. And I said, Yeah, definitely. And so I went to join a company called beneficial trust, which was an American company. And they were selling retail loans. And also doing that retail loans, that in shop financing really, where you can find us a video or a TV and with finance, etc, and also doing personal loans and secured lending. So I joined that company and joined at the Leeds branch where I did my training went to new customers to do some training. And I think that was that I really, really enjoyed that, that. That new challenge for a number of reasons. First, firstly, because I was backing part of a team, a small team, but also as my first introduction, really to being incentivized for doing a good job. So by that, I mean that, you know, the branch was set targets. And if you hit those targets, then you could, you know, you could get rewards, whether it was some wine vouchers or, you know, shop vouchers, etc. And that just that just appealed to me if you could, if you could work, you know, towards targets and work hard, and you're rewarded for that. I just, I just found that really encouraging. And, yes, I work for beneficial just for five years, I had the opportunity to get promoted. After about a third year, I went on a management course, I've been up in Newcastle where they assess your ability to run an office. So that was two weeks hard graft where effectively you just take the office over for two weeks, and, and run it as if it's your branch. And I'll never as an aside, I'll never forget the feedback actually from from the guy after I'd done the second week, and he took me out for dinner with his wife. And he said, Dr. David, I'm pleased to say that you've you've passed the test and that we think you're ready to run the branch is not as great. He said, but if you if you run the branch, like you have this two weeks, in your new branch, you drive everybody potty because you're sick and tired of me saying, Have you done this? Have you done this and following up follow up, that it's just one of those things, it's just that when you when you when you ask somebody to do it, you know, you've got to make sure that they do it. And that also, but I think that's part of learning, you know, the management skills that you you delegate something, you then you, you know, you you expect somebody to do it, but I think where I've gone wrong was that I expect him to do it. But then I was following up to check that they had done it and have done it and had done it. And I think he said you'll drive them. They'll be a mutiny he said on Thursday, but that was the run out. But that was really good feedback because it was you know, are still relatively young, you know, 2526 when I was still young, it was my first exposure to junior management really, which which was great. So and then and then I think about three months three, four months later I was I was given the opportunity to run the Sheffield branch so I was living in Wakefield by then playing rugby at sandal sandal Rotary Club and went down to run the Sheffield branch which was which was great for him. That was That was my first real experience of leadership because it was only a small branch. I think we had about five or six people there have a system branch manager and some some blocks everything but now it's a great experience.

Andy: 23:39

I'm absolutely fascinated because I know you well enough, David and and that follow up that I love it. I that's one of the things I admire so much and where you compliment me when we work together and we've worked together on some fascinating projects. And so that was I'm fascinated to hear that was something that you had from a very early age then there's just that simple. If you say you're gonna do something, then yeah, have you done it? Have you done it yet? Have you done it yet? And having no you know, no problem asking people Well, have you done it and and i i think it's a wonderful trait to have. Did you have it as a child? Or was it something that you thought now I'm a manager? I need to to do this I was at the you were very responsible yourself and you always used to do what you said you were going to do so as soon as you were delegating you expected people to behave the same. Can you work out where it came from?

David Bowles: 24:43

I'm I'm not sure where it came from where there because I'm not sure it necessarily came from my mum and dad because I don't think they were particularly organised but I've just I've just always been a good organiser. You know, I've I've always been able to To do things in an orderly fashion, I like to do things in orderly fashion I hate, you know, waste in terms of having to go back and do something again. But you know, even even even today at my daughter's getting married in, in August this year, she was meant to get married last year, but it was postponed because of the COVID. But you know, she she got really cross with me last week, because I've got everybody's name on the Excel spreadsheet. And I told her who I hadn't had replies from yet she's, you know, they're coming. But they have not replied, yeah. until they've officially replied to me, they Oh my god, so and then within the space of about 10 minutes and think 13 of her friends or replied Mr. Bowles here have I've been told, I must tell you, I'm coming. But, but to me until they've actually told you, they're coming, they're not coming on. And that's just one example. But it's it's extreme. But now that I've, you know, when I've organised things, I've always done it to the nth degree to the, to the fact that, you know, as soon as we're about to start, and I'm just going through this one more time, this is what we I don't know, this, I just, I feel much more confident in things going well, if if I'm confident in myself that it's gonna work. And that confidence is borne out by the fact that people tell me how it's going to run based on what I've told them. And once I've done that, and it starts, I'm fine, I can relax. But I'm, I know some people who just, you know, turn up and expect it to happen. And when it doesn't happen, they wonder what's gone wrong. I just I'm not that type of person. I would, I would, why worry until the until it's over? And then I'll then I'll sit back. And, you know, enjoy what's happened?

Andy: 26:38

I think it's, it works very well. It works very well. And so you, I think where I took us back we were in Sheffield, you Sheffield. Yeah, you were running the branch? there. So how long were you doing that for? Or what's the what's to share about that?

David Bowles: 27:00

I think probably about, I was running it for two or three years. And and again, it was it was great experience really, really good, good experience, because they had this, this method of reporting, and I won't forget it. It's called the r1, which was report one. And so each branch had its own specific report. So like, you've got your receivables and your income and everything and your insurance Commission's can because you could sell insurance products as well, if you're doing a secured loan or family gap insurance or something like that. So you actually have a report that tells you how your particular branch was doing. So that for me, again, was was was great, because it fitted in perfectly with my, you know, the thesis of wanting to know exactly what's going on. Because, you know, as soon as the month had finished, I print my report off to see what it told me because I would expect to me now I've set some targets and I want to try and hit those targets. So having the r1 was brilliant, because you know, it doesn't lie tells you where the You've done well not. And again, going back to what I was saying about, you know, having the opportunity to work towards targets and everything, you know, there was those 54 branches in the UK, I think so you know, and they had manager of the month as well. So that was great something to to go for. And they had an annual conference every year where they would take us to some luxurious place and present the guys with the prizes. I was lucky enough to win that twice. Actually, in the three years I was I was branch manager and never forget going to somewhere in Worcestershire think and Lance Percival who at the time was quite a big name. He was quite a tall guy. And he was on the telly and everything he actually presented the prizes I'll never forget it was the first first real prize I've gotten you know, I tell everybody about it now known as nobody's any idea or lunch personally. So for those those of you who are listening to this Google loves personal but yeah,

Andy: 28:53

ringing of a bear with me, but I'm,

David Bowles: 28:57

yeah, he was. He was a nice guy. But but but you know, it's interesting as well, because join the days that I was working at beneficial. Living in Wakefield and travelling down to Sheffield, I have a good friend who, who our first guy I met at the Robert Glover, I'm remembering well, Steve, Steve lacquered his name was and we went to training and he introduced me and and then took me under his arm. And you know, we went for a beer at the weekends and things like that. And he was he was actually working for Wakefield council at the time. And he you know, he couldn't believe that I was working these long hours because, you know, I was travelling down there work and he had a great life at the counter anything. But I think that's what I had at the middle of bank. And it's interesting because Steve's done full circle out because he left the council went on his own. And I think he really likes the fact that he can set his own targets and, you know, make a little bit more money and getting rewarded for hard work. So what I really liked about benefical was that, you know, the hard work could be rewarded in, you know, in incentives. And I think that's, that's the difference between the public and the private sector. I think that's what I really, really enjoyed. Yeah, yeah.

Andy: 30:03

So fitted your personality fitted how you like to be clear targets, this is what I've got to do. You've got the ability to work hard and achieve those targets and you get instant feedback from the r1. How are you doing? Yeah, and and some rewards and incentives to motivate it to make it make it fun. And, yeah, sounds like it fitted you really well. And so what brought that to an end and David, that's

David Bowles: 30:33

Well, again, it Sheffield was into in terms of branch sizes, check. It was quite, quite a big branch. But as I said, there was you know, it wasn't less than 10 people in the office went when I was leaving. And and I just wanted a new challenge. And, you know, I wanted to perhaps go somewhere where the opportunities were greater. So Sheffield, although beneficial, was an American company that you haven't any opportunities to sort of go abroad. Although at this point, I have to say that I was still very much focused on Yorkshire. I was still in Yorkshire albeit hours now in South Yorkshire working as opposed to West Yorkshire. But, you know, I never underestimate the fact how, you know, kina was to stay in Yorkshire, I never thought I'd move out of Yorkshire last I know, that sounds really, really parochial. But when you, when you sort of growing up, you've lived in a village and, or our small town, and you know, you play the sport there. And you know, a lot of people and it's nice when you go in a pub, and you know, you know, somebody's there, you know, moving out of your truck, I didn't think I'd ever do it to be honest. So it was, it was, it was, it was interesting to see what would come next. But you know, and I hadn't even thought about moving out of England, or the UK, let alone moving out of Yorkshire now, but I wanted to, I wanted a different challenge, I wanted the opportunity to go and work another, perhaps a large organisation that had more opportunities, because really branch managers was the limit to where I'd go, the next step was regional manager, which was there's only two of them in the country. So yes, it was limited opportunities. And I just, I felt that I got a good grounding at beneficial with the training programmes that they offered, he was really, really good. You know, I, I guess I'd started to understand the importance of processes. I learned that in middle end, and now Middle America now, you know, that had been backed by the processes in in beneficial as well. And also, we'd have the opportunity to to see the whole aspects of the business. So whereas with the bank, you probably just focus on one particular area, when your branch manager, you, you know, you've gotten the sales, you've got the selling the load, you've got to going out to shops to try and get them to advertise your products in terms of ability to finance their products, with your, with your with your with your money. And then also you need to collect it. So that was my first real introduction to underwriting that you soon know you get your decision wrong. Because if you lend the money and they don't pay you, then you've made a bad decision.

Andy: 33:09

So instant feedback. Again,

David Bowles: 33:11

it is but it but it's great, because, you know, I think, you know, sometimes you can go to some organisations where it's not joined up at all, you've got the salespeople who have no comprehension of what's going on at the back end. And I think if you understand how the two come together, you know, that you won't be able to offer, you know, good rates if you're if you did delinquencies really, really high. So and I think that was a really, really good understanding of God, the importance of being connected, both from an underwriting perspective and, and collections and delinquency perspective. So, you know, not only did you lend them money, but if it went bad, you actually had to go and collect it and repossess it as well. So that that was great, I was really, really good introduction to what I would call, you know, the whole company, as opposed to just an element to it.

Andy: 34:02

Yeah, and I've just got to say, I mean, that's another thing I really appreciate about working with you is that in depth knowledge you have of the detail from beginning to end of the process and the understanding of how it all fits together, as well as an absolute passion for improving it, streamlining it, making it up to date, and a vision for how you would like to that to be and we can talk about that later when we talk about creating, you know, seamless paperless digital customer journeys, but what I've noticed already, David is that there was an ambition there, right from starting at medlem. Bank, there was you were finding, you know, you notice that you are only going to be able to get on if if somebody left or or or retired. And you realise that wasn't going to be enough for you. So there seems to have been an inbuilt ambition because it doesn't sound like there's much pressure from you. Parents at all. They were very, as we said, not not intrusive at all, as long as you were happy and, and back home on time, it's all good. So yeah, you're ambitious, then you certainly were ambitious.

David Bowles: 35:16

Ambitious? I'm not sure. I'm not sure I was that ambitious actually. And I know that that may that may sound a bit funny, actually. But I think two things that springs to mind, actually, that are saying this to my daughters really, is that I think, first of all, the most important thing about work is that you enjoy it, you have to enjoy it, because it's, it's, you know, it's so it's, it's plays such a major part in your life, that if you're not happy at work, then you, you're probably not happy at home. So I think that, you know, being happy in your work is most important. And for me, being happy at work, which I was, meant that I, I worked hard, and I was able to develop myself, but but also, you know, deliver good results. And whether that's whether that then drives ambition, and I'm not quite sure because I it wasn't as if I'd actually got this this objective in mind that says, I want to be, you know, the CFO of a large PLC, I've never even thought, you know, beneficial never even thought about the house just thinking about the next opportunity. And the and the reason why I'd left beneficial wasn't because I was unhappy, I was very, very happy. But my enjoyment was coming in was was starting to dwindle a bit in so much that I'd reached the level that I thought I could get to that company. And our starting to get a little bit frustrated, still enjoying it, but getting frustrated in so much that he was now becoming more routine. I was doing the same things every day, I proved myself. And I just wanted the next challenge. And that challenge for me, isn't dressed up as ambition is more of enjoyment, enjoyment of work, so so that I might,

Andy: 37:12

yeah, so it wasn't as if you had us I set on a particular job title in the future, it was more, you always put in 100% and worked hard. And then naturally, you'd start to feel less challenged after a while and that would seem less enjoyable. So you'd seek more enjoyment fresh challenge.

David Bowles: 37:33

Exactly, exactly.

Andy: 37:35

That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. And if you couldn't see that, if you couldn't see an outlet for that, or an opportunity for that in the organisation, then it It caused you to then think, Oh, I need to move elsewhere to find that

David Bowles: 37:47

way. Yeah. And it's also interesting that just another couple of points, which, you know, again, some people listening will will will understand, or some people probably will disagree. But I'm also a believer that you don't ask to get promoted, you earn the opportunity to get promoted, and you're offered the opportunity of new job, you don't go and ask or demand that I'm maybe a little bit naive, but I think that if you work hard, then you'll get recognised. And you'll be given those opportunities. And that's the way I worked. And coupled with that is I've never ever asked for a pay rise. Never. Again, naively, some may say, I've always been of the opinion, coupled with what I've just mentioned there is that if you're doing a good job, then you'll get rewarded for it. And that has worked. And that's worked for me. You know, I hear people say, you know what, I'm going into work tomorrow to say they voted give me a pay rise, I'm leaving. Well, my response to them is okay, well just be prepared to leave, you know, don't Don't, don't do something that you that you can't then follow through. So yeah, I just think those that that that's, that's just the way I am, you know, maybe a little bit of old fashioned but I believe that if you work hard, the new you'll get noticed and you'll get rewarded. And up until the point that I've worked with beneficial that had been the case. But that was the reason I left the bank because I didn't think that was the case because I thought you could you work hard there but you know, you you've got to you've got you've got your pay there. You remember the union you get you 2% every year and everybody got the same. So there wasn't, you know, some people who who were off sick, you know, and got the same money as Yeah, I was never off sick. I was really proud of my sickness record. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Andy: 39:34

So it was, yeah, you you wanted an environment that would allow you to work hard and tackle those challenges and succeed and be rewarded. Yeah. But you say did that beneficial that started to you couldn't see the future opportunities.

David Bowles: 39:54

Well now because as I said, you don't ask you don't ask to get promoted, you know to get off with it. When I went to see the Regional Manager I remember it vividly it was us based in in Darby. In Darby, and I'd run the app is set to covanta jaccuzi. And and when I arrived is I know what you've come to tell me, because you've already run the sector to check it out as well. Yeah, why don't all come here and you're not here? And he said, Do you know leave? Is it? And I said, Yeah. And he says, I'm not going to change your mind. Mr. said, No, you're not. And the end, he didn't even try because, you know, there were I, you know, I wasn't ready, there were people more qualified for me to do the regional manager's job. And I didn't want the post to be, you know, invented for me. So yeah, so it wasn't that I was, didn't enjoy it, I just felt that I got to the point where it wasn't going to get any easier in terms of enjoyment, or any better in terms of enjoyment, so that the time would come to sort of move on. And, and I hear he understood that he understood that it was, you know, there were limited opportunities. Some people were very happy to keep the branch manager post and, you know, take along on a day to day basis, but I just wanted something different. So that's Yeah, that's why I made the change.

Andy: 41:03

And had you already found the next thing then, before you before he left or

David Bowles: 41:09

Oh, no, I'd let my listen from the insurance days, I realise that you You must you need, you need to know what you're going into next, rather than just go blindly into an insurance job with a telephone book. So yeah, so I joined I probably made the best decision of my life actually, I went and joined for to credit. And I was I was very, very lucky, very, very lucky because there was a guy who I played, played rugby with Russell. He was he was a cell manager with for credit at the Leeds branch. And he said, we've got a vacancy, you know, do you fancy coming along? And, and I and I did I went along and met the branch met the assistant branch manager, I think, is Barry Barry shires, lovely guy, great guy Simpson, similar personality to myself. He was great, really, really friendly, great team player. And I had an interview and, and then I got the opportunity to go down to Brentwood and and be grilled by by the Regional Director there. Yeah.

Andy: 42:13

How old? Were you, David, when you stepped into automotive?

David Bowles: 42:17

2027 I think was 27. Yeah, about that round about 27. Yeah, yeah. But it was it was funny. And I know when we started before we started, you say I've got the opportunity to come back and tell you if I've said something that I shouldn't say something so but but I'm sure he's not going to be listening to this because I'll never ever forget the interview at Brentwood. So he was he and Ian Haynes was his name. And he, you know, talk to you very, very posh public school boy and everything and clearly looked at my CV and saw my four oh levels and my diploma in business studies and, and he was asking me a question, and I explained how I've been in a sales situation. And then I'll never forget him saying that when you're done with the savages giving out beer. That's exactly what else would you do? I thought it was Oh, my God. This isn't going very well, is it? But anyway, I managed to Well, actually, I think I had some good supporters. When I'd have made it up in Leeds and they fought for me. I think so I don't think he was entirely 100%. Behind my employment, but But anyway, I got the job as a trainee zone manager with with Ford credit. Yeah.

Andy: 43:31

Wonderful. And what what area were you? Was that still in there in Yorkshire that

David Bowles: 43:37

yeah, that? Yeah, that was that was in the Leeds branch. So I was I was covering the the Leeds area and North Yorkshire. Yeah. So.

Andy: 43:44

So how was that? What was that giving you that you didn't have before? What was the attraction of that? David?

David Bowles: 43:51

a number of things, actually. So first of all, I think there was 16 branches in the UK at the time, of which Leeds was probably top third or fourth, obviously, as big areas Leeds. And I think we I think we had some of those 3940 people in the office. So you're part of a much, much bigger team. So it was that was really, really good. So you know, you got that that team that team spirit again. Secondly, I was actually out really exposed to sales. So working with the territories were split up into into sort of five or six territories so that I think there's about four or 5% managers, and you had a number of dealers that you looked after. So I've never worked with dealers never specifically work with automatic before. But you were able to, you know, learn the products and then you actually worked really, really closely with the dealers and what was what was really really good about full credit and I look back now and I will never say a bad word against the kids for credit is absolutely fantastic company to work for. But their their training was just second to none and They never put you in a position whereby you wouldn't be able to perform unless you just were useless. incapable. But, you know, by that, I mean that before you went out to the dealers that they put you through a process whereby, you know, that introduced selling techniques, you know, how to approach people how to sell, you know, successful negotiation, all those sorts of things. So, in the first three or four years that I was with, for credit, a number of courses, I went on, I think, you know, 1012 courses, it was unbelievable, the, the training that they gave you, and, and again, the team spirit was just great, everybody was there to help each other. And working with the dealers, you know, you've worked with them most of your life as well on the you get the opportunity to, to actually, you know, fight for the business. And I think that what I really enjoyed was, I think you had the opportunity to, to demonstrate your personality and your personality, that personality really came out to the fore. So you could have a laugh and a joke with them. And I think in those early days, before the big PLCs took over, you know, there's a lot of the smaller dealerships and The Mamas and papas, and if you've got on really well with me now and up, occasionally add a little lunch with them and bought them a beer that support you. And, and I think that was, that was another way of actually sort of winning the business, it wasn't just about, you know, selling the best rate or the best package it was, if they liked you, they would work with you on that. And I just, I just really, really enjoyed that the opportunity to be able to bring your personality to perform. And I think this goes back to what I was saying, right at the very beginning, when I was at school, you know, I probably developed the personality too, too strongly. Whereas I perhaps I should have focused more on the on the qualifications over this, this is working for me. So it's, you know, I made some great friends in in the in the area, the Leeds area was, it was great. And what was interesting actually was I was a trainee at the time. And I said a bit earlier that, you know, I never asked for a pay rise or never asked for a promotion. And I remember going in to see the branch manager at full credit after about 15 or 16 months. And he said we made a dreadful mistake, David, you you you're still a trainee, his own manager, and your that normally only last six months I saw after now I didn't realise this. And so you know, we're going to, we're going to give you a 12% pay rise and we apologise profusely and I thought well, you know, again, they've they've noticed you there you've done a good job they've looked into they rewarded you and that that just you know, not that I've lost the faith because I haven't even realised but i think you know me well enough that one of the things that that really infuriates people is that I paid no attention to people's grade, you know, if I'm a farmer, Senior Manager, and I'm talking to a client, I'll talk to them exactly the same way. And people you know, they will often say to me, just, you know, who do not know who I am, I said, well, who are you? You know, it's not a title is not important to me. But But I know, you know, I know that some people title really is important. I had discussions where it lasted an hour and a half about what their job title should be. And I'm thinking, Well, you know, why? Why are you so bothered about your job title, and some people really are, but I'm not that type of person.

Andy: 48:11

You are very humble. There's a lot of talk about humility. These days, a lot of people are being humbled by things on LinkedIn, which I find quite amusing. But you are. the humblest person I think I've met and worked with, you genuinely do not pay any attention to any of those titles and that ego stuff. And it's, it's absolutely true. So I'm wondering, though, so we've talked on these conversations before about the importance of relationships and your relationships with the dealers, it really is, there's only so much you can do by yourself. And if you really want to succeed, you need to be good at building strong, interdependent relationships with other people, whether that's your customers, your team, your other stakeholders. So I can imagine you building fantastic relations with your dealers because of your personality and your humility and just the genuine gentleman that you are. But also by then you'd had quite a few years of understanding processes. So I imagined the some of that playing its part was it in terms of the value that you brought to them, and how to deal with fraud credit and how to process the business and was some of that helpful.

David Bowles: 49:32

So I'm going to show you my chip on my shoulder now about people who have degrees and everything. So I actually think one of the benefits that I had of coming in as a as a trainee zone manager is I actually also got to do the nitty gritty stuff. So I was on collections. I was on proposals underwriting side, I did all that stuff as well for six, seven months, which was great because you just understood all processes like Do you understand how to go back to what are saying you you understood that if you made a bad credit decision, then you will come to bite you in the bum? Because you'll have to go correct it. But working with I mean, there's predominantly female environment in the office, actually, you know, they'll female underwriters and collectors, it's just the way the offices work, I think. But, you know, working with those guys, you know, it was great because you understood you had to be part of the team. Because you know, many times when you're out in the field, you say, Have you lost the other brother? Can you? Can you purchase me three or four contracts? Because he's on his bonus depends on it. And you know, and, and this is much being getting on with the people in the branches, we're getting all the dealers because you have to make those relationships. And I think if you're able to get on with the people, you work with that any call in the favour? Yeah, I think that's where it comes before your personality. So yeah, so So in terms of the processes it I've learned, the importance of being quite structured at middle and bankcard I've had the exposure of the r1 are beneficial, where you are judged on results, but also exposure to underwriting and collections etc. And I had the opportunity at full credit to do that. And it's it's is really, really invaluable, because there's so many times when somebody will ask you something so basic, and you can answer it and other people who haven't had that wouldn't be able to answer it. And I think this is probably when away, I probably was had an advantage other people who come in with degrees, because they were coming in at more perhaps a little bit more senior position. So coming in and given a specific role as opposed to doing everything at the bottom and working your way up. And, and when I and I will talk about for quite a bit more detail. But when I look back at for credit, you know, 20 odd years, I think the reason why I was able to move along the ladder up the ladder was the fact that I'd had that grounding. And every job that I had done, I just learned more and more and more until you get to the point where you probably know pretty much and you know, you and you'll be in a meeting and somebody will say, Well, how do you know that? And I said, Well, I just do I just? I don't know, I just do. But it's it's but you know, for Craig we're really, really good on processes, they they have a process for everything. I mean, some sometimes up to any processes, but they were very, very process oriented. And that was important. Because, you know, we it was it was a national organisation you had to be you know, you have to work in it in a similar fashion throughout the country, not throughout the world. Really, we were pretty consistent in our processes. As you all know, working for BMW. We were you know, we were pretty process oriented. But yeah, in answer to your question, a long winded answer, yeah, that's the purchases were important in those days. And, and I just

Andy: 52:48

imagine you'd have added a lot of value, David, so you come in to visit your dealer, partner. And not only are you great to get along with, but you know, the answers to the questions. And you you can add value genuine value in terms of understanding the business that you're representing.

David Bowles: 53:04

Yeah, yeah,

Andy: 53:05

that's a good use of their time, good use of their time. And you're well trained, so you can help them do more business, you can help them to sell more, and it's good business. It's not the sort of business that you then going to where you know, it's going to go to Lincoln.

David Bowles: 53:18

Yeah, yeah, hopefully. So,

Andy: 53:21

yeah, it sounds like a good a good grounding for that. So eventually, after was 18 months, they realised to take you off the trainee. Put you where you should be. And then what happened?

David Bowles: 53:35

Well, it hadn't gotten very damaged. Because I, you know, the fact that, you know, if somebody else would be there, they might have been horrified the fact that you've got tradie by the tail I didn't even know I had by the title. So. So then, the next the next stage of my development was you had to walk. In those days, we had the finance, finance and insurance team as well. So you had two people in the office who will be working closely with the dealer account managers, who would actually provide the reports as to how they're doing so they actually promote the the f&i and for those people who are familiar with the with f&i, is it seen as sort of a fifth profit centre, so it's not specific to sort of parts or service, but it's an opportunity for dealers to sort of sort of add the icing on the cake and make money out of selling finance. So f&i, you're specifically, you know, training the dealers, finance

Andy: 54:24

and insurance. Yeah.

David Bowles: 54:26

And you were actually, you'd go into the dealerships, and you'd actually run programmes where you'd actually train them how to sell specific products, how you'd look at their sales processes and develop then you'd have sort of conferences every sort of, you know, six months we'd put put all the business managers in the in the area together. And that was great because you you really were able then to actually help the dealers to improve their bottom line because it's competitive world you know, you don't a lot, not a lot of people realise that you don't actually make that much money. Selling new cars. They follow make more money selling used cars and f&i. In those days, you probably was their most profitable source of income. I say, then because now the FCA sort of crowd on top a bit and, and and become a bit more, it's become a bit more restricted as to how you can earn your income on f&i. But yeah, so that was great. And I go back to you know, organisational skills room. That was, that was great for me again, because I had a number of dealers who I was looking forward looking after. And you know, at the end of every month, you'd produce reports and go out and visit all these dealers, etc. So again, if you weren't organised, you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't succeed. So yeah, I love that element and being able to sit down with a dealer and go through his report as to what his target was, because you'd set the dealer a target at the beginning of the year, you break that down into a monthly target based on how many vehicles have sold. And, you know, it's great, you take great delight as they will you to down in that area. But you've got three here and you Well, we have some fun, but at the end of the day, we were all in it together, we were helping the dealer to to to to earn more money. So again, love, love that element of the camaraderie. No. And also we you know, we devised the league table. So you'd have the dealer's all in you know, 18 years old and 111 League there and never, never forget the the advice that I got from one of the guys who's running the Polo was in days gone by cola was a big group in in Yorkshire. I think they were taking their car and took them over in the end. somebody bought them out one of the big PLCs and the guy said to me said he said where are where am I in the league? This today? day? That's your third great, great as one wouldn't want to be top? No, no, no, no, no. When you're when you're top, they focus on you. And all they do is want to know how you do it. This third is fine. I'm just out of the limelight. And I just thought I was so funny to raise Kenny this guy's very happy just to sit in third and be out of the limelight, but they are always competitiveness. But it was uh, honestly, the automotive changed so much over the over the last 20 years. As I've said a few times now the big PLCs have come in and The Mamas and papas have gone. So it's not that it sounds like you know, all our yesterday's it's not as it used to be, you're still still good fun, but it was great fun back in those days. And again, I think this hopefully is coming over to listeners is that I just loved it. And I absolutely loved the job. And and again, you know, 18 months, sort of promoted to f&i specialists, again, rewarding for doing your job. And after that, I took out my sort of first management position albeit sort of reasonably, not not a senior position, I went over to Manchester, which this was a monumental move for me. I mean, I was moving out of Yorkshire into Lancashire, it couldn't have been a worst through

Andy: 58:02

just making me think of the dark side and yeah, you know,

David Bowles: 58:06

so anyway, yeah. So but I made the, I can't believe I've done it. But yeah, of course, it was, it was it wasn't, it wasn't a hard decision, it was promotion. So I became the system branch manager at Manchester. So I gave yet I was there for two or three years, and had the opportunity to run their, their collections and administration departments or big, big branch again. And, again, it was an opportunity to, to use all the skills that you learn before and and you're looking at the processes. And what was great about this, this is gonna sound really stupid, isn't it, but what was great about running that department was was that everything was done on the system. So I didn't need to go and ask them, if they'd done it, I could actually check on the system, see if they'd done it. So, you know, I'll be able to see what the delinquency was on a daily rate and how many people have at cleared their queues and everything, it was just great, being able to do that so many a time and spend an extra hour in the office, just checking where everybody was. So you know, and, and that, but again, that's important just to make sure that you're up to date. Because, you know, you know, when you get to sort of August time or marching used to be August registration date, if you fell behind in some areas, it could take a long, long time to catch up. So just having the understanding of ability to actually go and go and check where you are and understand where you are not just being told that we're up to date, because, you know, some people didn't like you to hear bad news. And therefore, they've been able to actually prove to yourself that you're up to date or where you are in the cycle is really, really important. And that's, again, I think that's so important as those people who are successful in business or are successful leaders or run good operations, we'll we'll always have some checks and balances in place to make sure that what you've been told actually is the case.

Andy: 59:56

So far, what I'm hearing David is you're just incredibly well suited for path that you you found yourself on because you, you, you're organised, you are motivated by having clear expectations, clear targets, you really liked to have the data coming back to you to feedback. How are we doing against this? You had the, the confidence to, you know, to, to ask people, where is it? Have you done it yet? And it was important enough for you to push through any sort of sensitivity around like, just let's get this done. love being in teams can build relationships. So you sound as though you're definitely in the right place. And

David Bowles: 1:00:40

yeah, I think I was but and I know this, this might come as a surprise, but I'm not the most confident of people. And sometimes I do worry. And that's probably that's a weakness, I think I do worry a bit. I worry that if something goes wrong, that, you know why why is he gone wrong? Why Why couldn't we have stopped that and I think that's something that I, I learned to helps put to the back of my mind as as as as I went through law as I as I progress, but even now, I still don't like it when things go wrong. And I probably go into too much detail as to what happened and why it went wrong. So I think that is a that is a little bit of a weakness really, I probably shouldn't do that because things do go wrong. And the most important things I've learned is that something goes wrong is not to blame somebody for it, but just understand why it went wrong and learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again. But yeah, I yeah. You know, I remember doing presentations in the Leeds Leeds office and one of the managers there saying, you know, that was great, great presentation, David, or how come you're not nervous, really wasn't nervous, you know, the next day, the previous night, I was rehearsing it. And you know, I've got all my slides and lists that now that I like to, you know, know what's coming next. So yeah, I just, I remember one of the courses that I went on, I'll never forget it, you know, the failure to prepare is preparing to fail. And that was one of the effective selling courses I went on with four grand never, never, ever forgotten that with, you know, bringing those little cards that as promoters, which I'm going to do at the wedding, I use it. I use it in all it's not just work. It's everything. I just think you know, some of the things that you learn you can you can bring into life with you into real life as well. Yeah,

Andy: 1:02:27

absolutely. So you've just mentioned the wedding. So say a little bit about that, because that your daughter's getting married? Yeah.

David Bowles: 1:02:34

Yes, she's getting married this year. Yes, it was meant to be last year. So she, obviously because of the pandemic that that was cancelled. So she decided to go out and buy a house and you've done it the other way around now to house and then wedding but yes, he's getting married this year. So she's, she, she went to went to uni qualified as a teacher. And she's on her third year of teaching now loves it and bought a house in order not not five, six miles from from where we are near epi. So yeah, she's she's on the ladder. And and she's, she's moving forward. She's, she's a she's a character, hollywood at that. Okay,

Andy: 1:03:10

and you'll be giving a speech there, and you're going to prepare for it with the usual discipline that you have. And I think what it sounds like is yes, you you worry about a lot of things don't go wrong. Because when you're around David, which is another reason I love working on teams with you, is, you know, a lot of things don't go wrong, because you've actually put some attention into thinking what might happen and preparing it and you still, you know, if we never go into a call together without having done some preparation, do we and that's usually different by you, you know, tapping me on the shoulder and saying, should we just have you know, you know, let's have 30 minutes before we do this? And I'll think yes, good idea, David.

David Bowles: 1:03:55

Yeah, I'd like to think that you shouldn't, you shouldn't go into meetings. And there shouldn't be too many surprises. If you've worked well as a team and you've worked well together, then you should be pretty well briefed. And it's not a question of catching somebody out. I think it catches somebody's eyes, it shows a weakness, not a strength, I think that if you if you come over as a team, and you know, you come over working closely together, and understanding whatever product or whatever you are, you're presenting, I just think that's really important. And there's some people have a different approach. I think some people want to be in the limelight and want to be the person to be seen as the person driving it. And I think there are times when that's important, but you know, I'm quite happy just to get my head down and, you know, contribute and be part of that contribution. And I think, you know, there are there are different types of people in the organisation. So, I think if I look back on, on on my full credit days, I think one of the, one of the regrets I probably have is that I probably wasn't as forthright as I could have been, I was happy to, you know, be seen as part of the team. And, you know, when even when I sat on the executive committee, I would offer my opinions. But, you know, I wouldn't stand there banging their desk and saying we should do it this way, whereas other people did. And, and I think probably, if I'd have done that, what I've would have achieved a little bit more Not, not from a personal perspective, but what would my thoughts or ideas have, perhaps been better accepted and progress? But yeah, I'm not I'm not not saying that's a criticism. But I think, you know, looking back up, probably, perhaps could have been a little bit more forceful in in presenting myself,

Andy: 1:05:41

see some of the things you do, David, some of the things you describe, to me seem very confident. And now so, you know, keep asking people have they done something? To me, I get a bit nervous about that. Because I just feel it's a little bit awkward. And that's why I love it when you do it, because I don't have to do it. And I know it's gonna happen. And we'll sit, we'll sit in meetings together, and somebody will be across the table. And they'll say, you'll say, when can you do but that by, and they'll give you a date, and I'll be smiling inside thinking, or you don't know what's covering that up, but I'll be so happy because I'm really thinking they're going to be held to that, you know, but, and I think of that as something that it takes extreme confidence to be able to, you know, just keep asking the What have you done it? Have you done it. And what I'm hearing though, is it's more perhaps driven not from extreme confidence, but more from the fact that you're very focused on not messing up and a bit concerned, maybe over concerned about mistakes. And it's actually that that gives you the power to keep asking people who are grownups, we're talking, you know, people, we're dealing with the serious grownups and you're not afraid to go and ask them. So where is it? Then you said it will be here today? Where is it? Have you done it yet? And so it's interesting, but no, I love it, please don't change there. And what happened, because you did it to me for quite a while as well, it is quite a quick, a quick learner, he didn't take me long to realise that and this must work for a lot of people as well. But if David's the guy that, you know, if you've given him a deadline, he's gonna come and ask you, so you, you know, just to avoid the pain, do it.

David Bowles: 1:07:33

Yeah, and it is got has actually got another do with confidence. Actually, it just, it's just the fact that, you know, you've only so many hours in a day that you can work to and you don't want to be, you know, again, I'm a great believer, if you can do all the work in five hours, and then don't work the six hour, you know, I'm not one that I have to stay there until the boss leaves and then I can leave, you know, you leave when when you've got your work done. But it's not really a confidence thing. It's just, it's just the best use of time. And there's nothing worse than going to a meeting. And then coming back the next month, and you review the minutes and the deliverables. And you find out nobody's done anything because there'll be new when you have to be done by and you just wasted so much time. So it's born out of you know, born out into Calla t Well, yeah, yeah, it's born out of being in a position where nothing gets done, and everyone gets frustrated. So if you're gonna go to a meeting, and you're gonna, you know, agreed to do something by by a day, then let's do it by the day. And if you don't do it by the day, then you shouldn't be held accountable for it. And

Andy: 1:08:41

yes, holding people accountable. That's a game changer. There must be meetings across the land across the world happening, where people just aren't being held accountable. And that's something you're very good, I think it's a really good way to put it, you're good at holding people accountable. And the reason I fixate on this topic and have probably gone into it is because I'm too worried about hurting people's feelings. So it's not a question of you being particularly confident. It's more I'm, I'm more Yeah, I'm not strong enough, or could be stronger, certainly in worrying a little bit less about whether I'm going to hurt someone's feelings. If they've told me they're going to do something, then they should have done it. So

David Bowles: 1:09:24

I'd much rather have a discussion when we're committing to something and doing now then not of doing something and then lose, you know, losing my temper or getting cross because nobody's done something and, and there's a misunderstanding of when it was all meant to happen by and and and I think that, you know, I've worked with people when you go to meetings, and they get very demoralised and very frustrated if they go to a meeting and you're discussing that exactly the same things as you did the previous two or three meetings that you've had. So I think, to get get the most of it. So that's, that's, that's how I describe it and it's nothing to do with confidence. It's just making sure that we move Thought and that that's the best for everybody. Yes, it does put a little bit of pressure on the individual, but then again, don't commit to something that that that you can't deliver on. And many times I will say to people a show that's, that's achievable, or don't say it for us just to hear it, is that achieve? And if? And if it's not given the opportunity, and that's, you know, that's that's just common sense, isn't it? Well, yeah.

Andy: 1:10:24

And you do ask them, you don't impose these deadlines. You ask people when they can do it by and then as you say, you ask them, if you're not sure, you say, Are you sure? At which point I'm smiling, thinking you better be sure to speak now forever hold your peace. But know it works really well. And accountability is a great thing. So and I think can really move the needle for a lot of teams. And a lot of businesses if there was a little bit more of that if they had one of you in every team? David? one too many? That would be absolutely, yeah, move everyone forward a bit. So I think you Was it brandsma, branch manager or assistant branch manager in Manchester, when we left the we sort of left the track to talk about this topic. And that was then not with not sort of out in the field with the dealers as his own manager now, but actually in the operations and making sure it all functions for the for the dealers and the customers. Yeah, I think that's where we left it.

David Bowles: 1:11:26

Yeah. Yeah. So

Andy: 1:11:27

let's pick it up from there. And yeah,

David Bowles: 1:11:29

so I, again, all previous experiences, all relevant because you now you now in the branch, and yeah, you have the opportunity to make sure that you're collecting on all the business that you've written. And then as I said earlier, I think there's 16 branches in the UK. And then for credit, decided to, to optimise the the UK organisation and they actually closed all the offices and centralised into into the service entrance and told them so I was lucky enough to be asked to go and start that process of bringing all the branches in. And, and as they close, you take them over. So I was along with a colleague in charge of the customer services area. So we started to basically bring the bring the offices in one by one. And at the end of that process, it was I think was a two year process, we've actually closed all 16 branches. And you know, something like 750,000 contracts were being administered out of the one area which was sent all of them. So that was really, really interesting. And it was interesting, but really, really tough because we gave all the people in full credit the opportunity to come with us Damson Tobin's, but obviously, some people didn't didn't want to relocate. And probably only it was only the load, it was only local bunches really, that took up the offer a few people from the from the northern branches came in, but we probably have a maximum of 20% of staff come with us. So we were having to recruit new people. So every sort of four or five weeks, we'll be bringing in sort of eight new people into the area that are being trained and you know, it, no matter how good you training is, there's no way that you can teach everybody something in eight weeks. And there was many a time when I get absolutely no work done in a day because people just keep coming asking this, this, this this to me, I knew that you'd actually, you know, wait until everyone go home. So you go get some work done. But that was that was really, really tough. Those were tough times. They're really, really well. But yeah, we achieved it. It was again, it was a learning experience. And probably in my time at that for credit, that was probably the least the least enjoyable time for for all the right reasons. You know, it was positive, but it was just really, really tough. And you know what it's like when you when you've got a completely new team and you've got the dealers who were previously worked with the branches. Well, what I used to deal with Cindy in the branch, you know, in your head, while Cindy is not here, we're not in the branch anymore now and you know, just didn't used to be like this. Well, your process that you know, you know, and it's like, it's absolutely dealers, dealers don't don't care about, you know, the mistakes or the challenges they have, they just want things done, which is quite right. We have to do it. But

Andy: 1:14:11

yeah, challenging time. Yeah. And so what came after that?

David Bowles: 1:14:17

My first my first forage abroad so I I've had I've had one interview to become a regional manager for Ford credit and the sales and have been have been successful and I remember the interview because I use the wrong word. I remember distinctly saying, you know, why do you want this job desperate for this job? I really I'm just the guy. And the feedback. I remember he was It was great. I think he was one of the CD guys interviewing me I think in his in his in his feedback to me said I think we need to give this guy some interviewing techniques because he's just too honest and he's dead. In his own words. He was desperate for the job. I just wanted to get out of the service centre. But it was in a way, in a way it was, it was good news, because then there was an opportunity arose in in the northern European office in Amsterdam, where it was a regional operation specialist. And they, originally the spec was specific to go and help a couple of locations that were struggling with their collections. So I'm in music to my ears, because I'd already helped to write the collections manual for the UK. So I went out and relocated to Amsterdam, took my wife and my daughter with me. And I was the regional press specialists for six countries. And that was a that was absolutely great fun. And, you know, one of the reasons I thoroughly enjoyed it not, obviously, the obvious reason was you're in Amsterdam, and what a city What a great city. And the opportunity to work abroad for a company that you've been with for a number of years, is that you, you can actually help the locations with your knowledge, you understand the processes, the systems, how the dealers work, and you're actually able to go out into the dealers and sign to the branches and work with them and help them and I think, you know, the feedback we used to get for our team was that we really were helping them we, because there's a lot of time, you know, you know, when you work for BMW, there's the central office, they don't understand. Well, I think the fact that one of the reasons one of the decisions that Regional Director made at the time was he took the reason office, Steve out of the out of Brentwood, and put them into Amsterdam. And so already we were one removed from central office, but we worked really closely with the with the with the branches. And that was a great, great couple of years, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but you putting together all your experiences that that you've learned and then then natural progression was was which was great news was that I was then promoted to branch manager run in the Netherlands. So I was actually country director for the Netherlands based in Amsterdam. So that was another another great another great opportunity, which, you know, gave you similar to beneficial, really, you had your own reports, you have the whole the whole shebang, you had the collections, you have the risk, you have the underwriting, you had the process controls, you had wholesale, you know, you're working for the Ford sales company, and talking them working very closely with the Ford MD there. So that was just just great. And I think what I remember talking, you know, like these big organisations, one of the benefits of these is they are great on processes, but they also have all structures in place. So Ford had a what's called a PDC, a personal development committee. And I actually, you know, when I got to my next position, which was Regional Director, I was actually a member of the PDC. And I look back, and I had a conversation with the chairman of the PTC at the time, nice day when he looked back on your career, your progression is almost perfect in terms of the jobs that you've done. And, you know, I'm saying, well, you're just lucky. And I think that they had actually planned it, which was, which is great. So I'd sort of gone from the bottom and just work my way through, you know, slowly and to the point where, you know, my end position when I left for work for credit was I probably got to, you know, one of the top 10 senior positions in full credit Europe, which is, which is great.

Andy: 1:18:15

Yeah, and I'm just, you know, listening to Dave, when he said, You became country director in the Netherlands, I'm thinking by then you would have had such a strong understanding of every aspect of the business, and you'd already been in the Netherlands for a couple of years, it sounded like in the operation side, so even the country, you know that it wasn't a country at that point, you were bringing all your experience, then into that role, you are well prepared would have been well prepared for that.

David Bowles: 1:18:43

Yeah. And the nice thing about the progression piece was that as you progressed into new roles, you've got the opportunity to sit on other committees as well. So I actually have the opportunity to sit on the system steering committee. So you know, you know what it's like when you when you work for a big organisation, everybody's fighting for resource, so we actually had a committee that prioritise what you would work on. So again, you got the opportunity to see how the business cases were, were built up, you know, what the, what the financial side of it was, what the impact on the operations were, and you actually had to understand that, you know, what systems work was required, how much work was involved. So, again, that was something I had done previously. So a great opportunity. So again, I would encourage anybody who gets the opportunity to sit on these committees is just take the opportunity, sometimes, you know, it is a bit of extra work and it takes you out of your normal role, but it does give you the opportunity to learn other things about the organisation and prioritising the work, you know, you could sometimes have three or four projects competing for exactly the same resource. So it is important to to make sure that you you understand the importance and sometimes the decision we're taking purely on the fact that you have to be compliant, you know, so we need this for the Bank of England or something like that. So it wasn't it was a sort of a no brainer, but Yeah, and so as you progress you get you've got the option to sit on these committees and, and sitting on a personal development committee was also was great because you had the opportunity to help shape other people's careers as well. And and that's really fulfilling when you know, you can, you know, sit back four or five years later and you seem somebody who you've started on there, you know that they're on their ladder. And and they progress how you hope they will progress. So yeah.

Andy: 1:20:26

And so, did you go directly from being country director for the Netherlands into the regional director?

David Bowles: 1:20:33

Now? No, I didn't actually. And this was an important part of my life actually, because I think for the first time, I've had to really put the family first I've got my second daughter was born in Amsterdam, which is great. So she's the one who's getting married. But my wife's my wife's mother was really really poorly. So we we made the decision to come home and I'll never forget to go to talk to my boss at the time and he said, This must be a really really difficult decision for us and it's not actually it's not because you know, at some point your family comes first isn't it and when it when it's health, when it's happiness, then you know, there was a no brainer for me your family must come first. So so we cut the Netherlands project shorts, I was only probably doing it for about 15 months. And then I came back into into another role which was sort of looking after the the non Fortran so at that point for the look to purchase land rover, Jaguar, Volvo, and we were looking at we were doing we call it non fraud. It was not particularly not particularly aspiring to the other brand. Yeah, it was it was all the non blue

Andy: 1:21:44

was a the premier Auto Group.

David Bowles: 1:21:46

Yeah. Amelie Premier, premier automotive. So Volvo landro. In Jaguar, yeah. And we actually bought the the UK bought the, the portfolio from, from BMW at the time the Land Rover portfolio. So that was another big project. So I did that for a couple of years. And then got my, my last promotion with Ford, which, which was to regional director of the Central European sales organisation in world markets, which was, and I'll never forget, I'll never forget, going to the guy who I was replaced a guy called john Coffey, who was a previous branch manager at Leeds, who I work for absolutely great guy, I learned so much from him. Very, very well respected within the organisation and respected by myself. And you know, always he always helped me and gave me some, some words of wisdom. And I'll never forget the first day that I went down to see him for sort of a handout and I said, I'm not sure I can do this job as a dad, of course, you can't David, tell, don't worry about it course you can. And about after talking to him for five minutes, the phone rang. And it was a it was a branch manager in Switzerland. And he said, I won't tell you the name of the group. He said, Bob Law Group has just just gone bust. And it's the largest largest dealer group in Switzerland, largest dealer groups probably represent about 25% of foreign sales. And he said, Well, I'll put you on today. And he'll tell you, he'll tell you what to do. So he put the phone on to me. And I just said to him, I said, Okay, I said, well, first thing you need to do is you need to stop check on all the all these dealerships to check all the cars that they need to reconcile against you wholesale, after about 10 minutes. Go home to jobs. And Joe, is that if you just report to David now on progress, that's fine. And he put the phone down. And he says they are told you. And you know, and it's just all up training. And I go back to what I said right at the very beginning for coding never put you in a position that they didn't think that you could do. You know, there's obviously some learning and development there. But I'll never forget that that first day with john when he said course you can do it because I was really, really nervous. And you're questioning whether you can do it. So it's it was a top top job in

Andy: 1:23:54

Ford. Yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. And how long did you do that for

David Bowles: 1:23:58

seven years, my longest? my longest role. So I, I looked after the new Northern European operation and Central Europe, that world markets we looked after Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, all the locations that haven't got Nash and got full credit operations, there are national sales comes we look after the importers, so absolutely love the job and got the opportunity to to go to so many places, meet so many people, you know, laugh with Caroline, you know, you sometimes see these notes that five passed on Facebook and something so tick the countries that you have visited and I get to get some something like 58 it's not it's not as sexy as you think. Because sometimes you were, you know, Europe at five o'clock in the morning to go to the airport and you arrive there 11 and you know, you go out for dinner, five, six o'clock, get home at eight in Europe. And so yeah, but unbelievable. I had the opportunity to meet so many different people from different nationalities, different cultures. I had to I laughed because I remember the first meeting I had, I think was somebody in Turkey. And if I didn't know what that what they've said I'd talk slowly but more louder. And he said just don't seem this way, isn't it? Don't talk. Don't talk so loud. Davis. Sorry. I learned how to learn how to deal with the people. So, so this guy was never going to go out of Yorkshire is now all over the place. So yeah, it was that move from Yorkshire to Manchester was the big move. For me. Everything else came naturally.

Andy: 1:25:29

Yeah. Free wheeling after that. Excellent.

David Bowles: 1:25:34

But, but but in summary, you know, that, that that role as regional director, you know, so you've got the local, you've got the branch managers reporting to you, it really was a culmination of everything that had gone before all the experience that you'd learn, because, again, you know, at the end of every month, you'd have a review of their financial performance would have a conference call, you know, the second Friday of every month, where we will talk to the locations go through the results. Now they'd have a budget, and all that stuff and collections, you'd cover everything. And, and it was great, because I think the location managers appreciated as well, because it meant that he kept them on their toes as well. So those people who perhaps weren't that good at follow up where we're learning the the importance of follow up, because if you didn't know the answer, then you'd have to go and find it. So but that that was, that was seven fantastic years. It was It was great. And who would have thought, you know, a guy was four oh, levels and no degree, I've actually got to regional director. So yeah,

Andy: 1:26:36

I think it's a wonderful story. And I'm smiling, because I know that it isn't over yet. There's there's some really exciting stuff still to come. And I think it's fair to say you left Ford credit before they would actually ideally have liked you too.

David Bowles: 1:26:53

Yeah, yeah. So I, apart from probably marriage, and leaving Yorkshire is probably the biggest decision of my life, actually, because I would just spoke about it earlier, Ford bought land rover, Jaguar, and Volvo. And we incorporated that into our operations. And we grown quite big. And then we decided for got into trouble. And we decided to offload them divest them. And the Ford credit was going through was going to go through a massive restructuring operation. And I, for the first time, Ford always run a programme for early retirement, that was commonplace, really, but forgetting never had never done it in the time, I'd been working for credit, which was 20 odd years. And they offered an early retirement package. And you had to be 50 by June the 30th. And I was 50. On June on April 28. So I, I, I just I thought long and hard about it. And I thought you know what, I absolutely love this job. And what would be depressing was if I didn't keep this job, and I was restructured, and I did something that I didn't like, because he was going to change, it was definitely going to change. And I thought to myself, well, I've got the opportunity to take the retirement packet well, so you could apply for it. I wasn't, I wasn't guaranteed I get it at this point. So I I applied for it. And no names mentioned. But I think the guy at the time who I reported to didn't didn't necessarily talk to me a couple of weeks. Not upsetting. But what have I done? You know that we laughed about it afterwards? And yes, I I took early retirement. Yeah. And biggest, probably one of the biggest decisions in my life. So I'd left the company that I work for and loved every minute of my time, then it was a big moves. I took early retirement,

Andy: 1:28:40

and you were very young then just 50 just 50 Yeah, yeah. And how did it pan out? Then when you were when you left? Was it? Did you have a plan? Or

David Bowles: 1:28:50

was it a disaster? Because I actually thought I could live off of a pension. I couldn't. So clearly, my financial planning is not very good. So obviously, I could I could draw a small pension. So I did that. But so I actually, I became a manager at the local golf club and club captain at the same time, which was great. So I was able to organise my own events as a club manager for for my captaincy, which is great. I knew it all would run well. And then and then

Andy: 1:29:22

how do you handicap fare during this period?

David Bowles: 1:29:25

I came down. Well as club captain, you get a lot of events. I was actually paid for playing golf. I was always professional. So because I was club manager at the time, so but and then I'll never ever forget it, Andy. So the Olympics was on and it was Do you remember super Saturday? Now? I

Andy: 1:29:45

don't.

David Bowles: 1:29:46

The Olympic super Saturday. That's when Rutherford won the long jump and heptathlon. Jessica Janice one one and right. And anyway, we want all the gold medal in the space of about five hours. I think we won about Mo Farah was Running. Anyway, that morning, I got a call from a headhunter who's looking for somebody to help them set up a financial services operation in Qatar. And I thought, yeah, score score so interested, you know. And I thought nothing of it. And about two weeks later, they said, right, I'm setting up an interview for you. And I thought, Oh, my God is being serious. So, yeah, so that was the next chapter I, I was taken out to Qatar. And I spent just over two years working in Qatar city and the financial services operation there were there, they'd already selected the systems provider, my, my role basically, was to help them get the processes of burning, get the underwriting and receive or systems working, getting making sure we were purchasing all the contracts, etc, getting the collection sorted, it's all stuff I've done previously, which is great. And unfortunately, whilst I was there, there was a big fraud that happened in the location manager at the time was released to this duty, so I ended up running Qatar as well. So two fantastic years out there. I mean, it's Doha. It's just a great place. It was my university, it's my wife said to me, it's the university life that I never had. So because my daughter at the time was doing her own levels, so she couldn't come out, they used to come out, they came out about, you know, five or six times a year, they loved it, because it was when it was cold here in the UK, it was love. It was warm out there. But after two years, I was told it was time to come home, you've had the two years at university. Now you've done what you could have done when you're 80. So psycho, and that's, and that's, and that's how we met. So that's how you and I met that's we had a guy who would introduce the system in Qatar was, was a friend of George Bauer, who was you, as you know, was your ex boss in BMW financial services. He contacted me and it's like to Jewish to Andy Follows. And with the two of you think about working for Tesla and setting up for Tesla financial services. So I think you can take over.

Andy: 1:31:56

Well, I'm more than happy to let my guests talk, David, but yes, we had a cold and we I had the George asked me the same thing. You know, will you connect with David, please. And we got on a Skype. I was sitting in New Zealand and you were sitting in Qatar, and I can't remember the time difference. But I think one of us was on a gin and tonic,

David Bowles: 1:32:18

tonic and swimming trunks.

Andy: 1:32:21

Yeah, you have to lie like, in this day and age of people carefully curating their zoom backdrop, you add an inflatable air bed behind you, I think it was yellow, bright orange, or yellow sorrowing on your balcony. And I was sitting, sitting there with my g&t. And we just both looked at each other. And what do we think? Yeah, what's the What do you make of this? Is this is this worth doing? And so I'll let you carry on because it's your episode, not mine.

David Bowles: 1:32:54

Now, well, obviously says that. So we came back. And I won't dwell too much on that, on the Tesla experience. What I would what I would say there's that bit, you know, you compare tests to for credit, and there's like chalk and cheese, you know, where, as we've mentioned, as I've gone through this, you talked about process and structure, Test Lab, no process, no structure. And you could say, Well, that's because it was a new startup company, but I actually think that was the ethos that was encouraged by Ilan really, and whilst you know, he is such an incredibly successful person that was runner, you know, made tremendous strides in the Evie. arena. There's also so much waste, I think that that we experienced, which, you know, could have been saved. Have there been a little bit of structure, but that's that, but But anyway, again, to to Goodyear to test them, and

Andy: 1:33:47

it was mainly testing, we're talking about 2015 and 2016.

David Bowles: 1:33:51

Yeah, yeah. So two years in Qatar left left for credit, 2009 18 months with the golf club, Captain See, and then Qatar for a couple of years. And then Tesla. Yeah. So we did what we were asked to do, we launched the finance, we got regulated by the by the Financial Conduct Authority, right in, in in in really quick time. I think we did it within about six months, which was anywhere between six months and 12 months was a normal, we got it back home six months. And we launched the financial services, we got systems up and running. We had a back office centralised in Amsterdam that was looking after the German operation as well. And our our vision was to to go you know, throughout Europe, integrating financial services through the Amsterdam office, but unfortunately, it was cut short priorities changed the model three came along and monies were put to, quite rightly to develop the model three as opposed to develop a large balance sheets. So we we tested went back to dealing with partners as opposed to putting the business on their own books and then we decided to decide to go separate ways but again, Good experience great working with a completely different set of teammates all very, very young or very bright or very ambitious. I don't think any of them ever slept, I think they were on Lucozade or die or Red Bull or something. But they were very, very energetic team, great, great set of people, all different characters. But again, another experience. And then after Tesla,

Andy: 1:35:26

just before we go on from Tesla, David, because I think people be interested. I mean, one of the things I found that you were still enjoying. Certainly one aspect of the job I know you enjoyed was having this blank sheet of paper. And I was impressed that you had a vision for this was an opportunity, you saw it all that process experience, you had all that customer experience that we've just been hearing about, this was going to be your opportunity to design something from scratch for the UK market. And then your that would would take advantage of, you know, the digitalization. And so just say a little bit about what you were thinking now and what you what you built? Yeah.

David Bowles: 1:36:09

So yeah, I mean, obviously, the the market had, had moved very, very quickly in terms of digitalization, in terms of what you were able to do online. And, and one of the things that I think we wanted to try to achieve was that we would give the customers a seamless experience in so much that they Tesla didn't have any dealership. So the starting point was that the customer would open an account with Tesla, they called it my Tesla, and that they would design their car, and then they would be ready to order their car. So if you already got somebody who's going online and creating an account, then it makes sense to then not take them out of a digital world, and put them into a paper world that keep them in that digital world. So what we the aim really was to try to get them to fill in a finance application online, by giving as little information is possible, but enabling you to get as much information as possible to make a quick decision. So we work very closely with with the Tesla. It teams which were great. I mean, they were fantastic on the software, they really, really were good. And we work very closely with the credit bureaus. So we set up some, some new partnerships with two of the big credit bureaus in the UK. And we designed the process whereby when the customer had ordered his car, He then said, Well, you know how you're going to purchase this car. And if it was cash, then that went down one route. And if it was finance, then it came to test the financial services. So we were the true captive, and they would fill in an application online, and then they would just hit the submit button. And within a hopefully a couple of minutes, that would come back as a as an approved, which would then send the customer the message it was approved, and send them a pre contractor second, as it was called peak contact information telling what the contract was. And that basically was it was all done within within two or three minutes. And it was seamless. And Funny enough, actually, the the criticisms we got in the early days was they didn't know that they applied for credit. It was it was that it was that it was it was an easy. And we I think we only asked for the address or two addresses in five years and date of birth and the copy of the driver's licence scan. And then we use all the technology with the credit bureaus to do the rest. So it was it was great. It was something that I would always I always wanted to try and do. It was nothing revolutionary in the in the, in the auto industry. I think a lot of companies were doing that in terms of digital signatures as well. But it's just something that we were able to design from scratch and do it worked really, really well. So we were able to keep everything online. And generally the the feedback was really, really positive. And you could say actually, that we really were part of our own downfall, really, because if we were successful, we we were buying a lot of business and the cars were sort of four times the value of yesterday, you know, 100,000 80,000 so when you've got you know, 120 contracts going on a month, the balance sheets soon soon started to ramp up. So yeah, so great to be given that opportunity to to work on that and digitalize that piece.

Andy: 1:39:22

Yeah, it was it was successful. And it was good to having, as you said the customers were starting their journey online. Anyway. So you had that benefit, but then just keeping them online throughout the whole process to the extent that they didn't even realise they didn't feel a thing as it were truly was seamless and painless. But it grew very fast and penetration rates increased rapidly. And we introduced PCP which hadn't previously been available on Tesla's until we started the captive. There was a there's a way you could do it by taking out a long loan and having a buyback and it was a sort of Have a do it yourself version that the team had cleverly put together, but we introduced real PCP. And I remember you explaining to me the phrase then about the the dog biscuits. David, where did that? Where did that come from? Oh,

David Bowles: 1:40:16

I have an old. One of the old directors of for credit he used to have this saying was, you know, give them what they wanted the dog wants dog biscuits, give them dog biscuits. And, you know, the people were crying out PCP. They wanted a low monthly payment with the opportunity of a buyback. So that was it. Nothing more complicated than give them dog biscuits.

Andy: 1:40:37

That was what we agreed on that very early on, amongst a lot of things we agreed on. But that was Yeah, we need to do PCP and if they want dog biscuits, give them dog biscuits. And we were proven right in the in the take. It wasn't it was very successful, as you say possibly to successful in that way. We're competing for funds with the acquisition of Solar City. Tesla just spent about three and a half billion, I think acquiring Solar City, they're ramping up model three, they were building the Giga factory in Nevada to build all the batteries. And we had that meeting in Oxford Street with Ilan, where he made it very clear that we weren't going to be putting money into the captive for quite some time. Yeah, foreseeable future. And that's when you and I both realise that, well, we've done what we were hired to do, we built it, but probably time to do the next thing.

David Bowles: 1:41:30

I have to say there actually, I mentioned earlier that one of our reps with with full credit was that perhaps I wasn't as forceful as I could have been, or I didn't get my view over in a in a more direct way. And I was actually true to myself that when I left for credit, I had the time to reflect on that, that in my next assignments, which was guitar and then test that I decided that I would be more fossil sites, I think I got to the stage with my boss in the US there that I probably lost his confidence, and he'd lost my confidence to be honest. And you know, I was true to myself, I was being a bit more for possible. So I think to be fair, I think I would have gone anyway. We weren't really getting on too well. And it wasn't a particularly enjoyable experience for either of us, really. So yeah,

Andy: 1:42:18

fair enough. So that brings us towards the end of 2016. And having built the the Tesla financial services business in the UK, and the shared services in Amsterdam, which of course even going to Amsterdam, we now know would not have been new for you that was your old stomping ground and very comfortable to go there and help build the shelves, shared services, shared services operation there to help the captive in Germany and then potentially other markets. What happened then after after Tesla for you, David, so

David Bowles: 1:42:55

I decided just to try and go my own release, I I decided to go do some consulting and with some help from yourself, I got my first my first gig. So I worked for a new startup bank up in the middle of where I worked there for were only meant to be for three months, but I think I worked for them for nearly a year which was great, good fun. Again, they were focusing on on process controls and making that the process that the design fit the system or vice versa. So I did that for a year. And then also worked for some consulting work for Ricoh Capital, which was centralising their credit risk departments. And automating it which was great because the experience of Tesla and working with the financials in the credit bureaus came to came to the fore. So yeah, so that was my first foray into inconstant into consultancy but I wouldn't say that I was a natural or a sort of a normal consultant because I'm not the type of person who sort of you know goes there tells them where they need to improve and then walks away then comes back six months diamonds is how is it was not very good, you need me to come in again. I'm actually more of the person who gets involved with it so I was actually helping them to design and redesign the processes and sort of actively get involved in in making it work which I personally got far more enjoyment out of because I wanted to be part of the of the of the problem part of the process improvement as opposed to just sit sitting from afar and then giving views and I think that was a appreciated because you actually got some skin in the game then and I remember negotiating one of one of my payments on the basis that just you know we're not gonna agree on what you pay me so pay me what you want to pay me or I think you can pay me and then we'll we'll agree on a bonus and if I deliver was what we said pay me that and they paid me with absolutely no problem at all. So and I think That, you know that that works well. So I wouldn't say it was a sort of a normal consultancy, it was a far more involvement. And then, and then we're nearly up to date, really, the Ricoh piece came to an end. And I sort of bought it to an end because I thought I'd done as much as I could do and handed it back to the business. And then as you know, we teamed up then to do some work with with Georg Bauer at at Fair, which was, again, great opportunity. And I won't go into it in too much detail, it was the opportunity to perhaps look at financing news vehicles on an app. And it was more about owner, it was more more about subscription than ownership. And we did you know, we did the initial survey, to understand whether there was a demand in the UK, which we believe there was. And unfortunately, it didn't, it didn't actually move to actually going live, we were a fair way down the route. But some thing's happened in the US with with Fair and SoftBank, which stopped us from from progressing that so we're up to date now. And it's great that you have I've joined the Aquilae. Group, the company managed by yourself found in great working with, with people we've worked in the past, Chris Stears, Ian Dewsnap, Amanda, all and all great people. So it's great to be part of the Aquilae brand. And as you know, we've we've got some other work that we're working on with an automotive companies just establish itself in the UK of bringing some electric vehicles and buses. So that brings us that brings us totally up to date. So that's the that's the story.

Andy: 1:46:42

And what a remarkable story it is, and very well told. Thank you, David. And yeah, I think the way you described your approach to consulting, I think that has really become the way in Aquilae. We approach it, isn't it where we're not so much consultants, expertise as a service is the way we've started to describe it that really, we've got a team of highly experienced people with years of operational experience in the industry, having run departments and businesses across the world, and set up businesses across the world for people like Ford credit for BMW for Tesla. And we bring that expertise as a team. And we're available on a flexible basis. So if you want to buy some hours from the Aquilae team, and present your your challenge to us, we can draw on the experience of the whole team to give you the best support that we can and we will roll our sleeves up and we'll do it with you alongside you, we won't just give you a slide deck telling you what we think you should do, we will expect that we're going to be involved delivering it, as well. So it's sort of blend between consulting and contracting, more flexible than contracting more hands on than consulting. And it works really well and we have fun doing it. And as David mentioned, we've got some some great talent on the team as well as ourselves. So really, really great to have this opportunity. David, thank you very much.

David Bowles: 1:48:14

I'm just gonna say one other thing, actually. But I guess there's one thing I've learned from yourself Andy and and also other people within the Aquilae Group, which which anybody who's listening to this, I would really, really encourage them to take up because I wasn't particularly good at that. And now we've got the likes of LinkedIn, and Facebook and every and networking. And I know you're really, really strong on networking. And I know that when I look back on my Ford Credit opportunities, and I mentioned that sometimes I had this bee in my bonnet about, you know, graduate trainees and things like that. But you know, some of the jobs that I got at Ford Credit or getting into Ford Credit I was recommended from a good friend, and that's how I got on the ladder. And then some of the work that we've got, with Aquilae, or some of the consulting jobs I've had as been through recommendations and through networking. So you know, for all those people who are starting out, all those people are thinking of making changes all those people who you know, don't know where their next role is gonna be. I just think that networking is so important. And I'll end by just saying one thing that, you know, I've always been keen never to, to burn my bridges and sometimes hold my counsel. If I don't necessarily like or agree with somebody, I'll we'll we'll just pass on good terms, because you never know where you might pop up and meet them again and goodness me over the last sort of 30 years as many people who popped up again in different roles now for thank God, I didn't tell him what to do then. But I think the one thing that I've learned over the last couple, two, three years is is with all the advent of social media, that networking is just it's just so important. That's it and then thank you for the opportunity was great.

Andy: 1:49:48

You're very welcome. Thank you, David. And I look forward to our next conversation very soon.

David Bowles: 1:49:55

And the edits

Andy: 1:49:57

bye bye bye You've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy Follows. I hope you enjoyed David's story and found some helpful points to reflect on for your own journey or for the journeys of people you lead, parent or mentor. To me, David's story is a great example of someone starting in broadly the right place, immersing themselves in the learning that's available, and seeking out the adjacent challenge, once they've mastered the current one. By the adjacent challenge. I mean, the one that's a step up and brings fresh learning, but also leverages the experience that we've already developed. David's progress to a senior position within Ford Credit in Europe. It wasn't driven by ambition to hold a particular role. It was more about mastering a role seeking more challenge and progressing that way. And each time he took with him deep learning that would be relevant to his next position, meaning that he was he was working from solid foundations. We have these conversations to celebrate my guests careers, to listen to their stories, and to learn from their experiences. And I'm genuinely interested in what resonated with you. If you have any comments or feedback for us. If you have any questions or if David's insights have helped you in any way, please let us know by leaving a review. Your feedback helps us grow. You can leave a review on Apple podcasts or you can find the episode on our Instagram @careerviewmirror and comment there. Emma in Brisbane, Australia said "It's great to understand individuals journeys, and some of the key learnings picked up along the way. Very relatable." Thank you, Emma, and Moonbeam Mike in the United Kingdom said "Really enjoyed the casual nature of the discussion of the discussions, but also able to glean some great insights into career and life decision making." Thank you Moonbeam, Mike, and thank you to all of you for sharing your feedback. Thanks also to our producer Hannah, who puts in many hours to bring these episodes to you each week. To be among the first to know about upcoming guests. Follow us on Instagram @careerviewmirror. If you know people who would benefit from hearing these stories, please show them how to find us. If you'd like to have flexible access to some additional automotive finance talent to help you develop and implement your strategy, check out our Expertise as a Service offering from Aquilae Aquilae provides you with the support of automotive finance experts on a flexible basis. And the Aquilae Academy helps automotive finance businesses gain a competitive advantage by developing cohesive internal networks across markets, functions and levels. Thank you for listening