Peter Jackson

Peter is Senior Manager, Commercial Learning and Development at Rivian. Prior to joining Rivian he was resonsible for Learning, Community Education & Growth Operations at Airbnb. He started his career at Tesla as a Delivery Experience Specialist before moving into training and then Learning and Development. During his seven years at Tesla he spent time in Los Angeles, Oslo, Amsterdam, Fremont and Hong Kong.

In our conversation, we talk about his early ambition to be an actor and how he found a different direction, the impact that international assignments had on his mind and his relationship with his partner, the satisfaction that comes from bringing all your prior experience to bear in a role and the legacy of Tesla and its gift to all future Electric vehicle brands.

It was a huge pleasure to spend time getting to know Peter's story and I hope you enjoy hearing it and meeting him in this episode. As always, we love hearing what thoughts it stimulates for you, so please let us know.

 You can reach Peter at: 

 peterthomasjackson@gmail.com

 www.linkedin.com/in/peterthomasjackson/

 This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. 

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Episode recorded on  28 July 2021

Transcript

Peter Jackson: 0:00

I just kind of have reflected on that. The last several years that I'm like, make your life the story that could be on a stage someday.

Andy: 0:11

Welcome to Career-view Mirror, the automotive podcast that goes behind the scenes with key players in the industry looking back over their careers so far, sharing insights to help you with your own journey. I'm your host, Andy Follows. Peter Jackson listeners, Peter is Senior Manager Commercial Learning and Development at Rivian. Prior to joining Rivian, he was responsible for learning community education and growth operations at Airbnb. He started his career at Tesla as a delivery experience specialist before moving into training and then learning and development. During his seven years at Tesla, he spent time in Los Angeles, Oslo, Amsterdam, Fremont and Hong Kong. In our conversation, we talked about his early ambition to be an actor, and how he found a different direction, the impact that international assignments had on his mind and on his relationship with his partner, the satisfaction that comes from bringing all your prior experience to bear in a role and the legacy of Tesla and his gift to all future electric vehicle brands. It was a huge pleasure to spend time getting to know Peters story, and I hope you enjoy hearing it and meeting him in this episode. As always, we love hearing what thoughts it stimulates for you. So please let us know.

Aquilae Academy: 1:44

This episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by the Aquilae Academy. at the academy we turn Individual Development into a team sport. We bring together small groups of leaders from non competing organisations to form their very own Academy team. We build strong connection between team members and create a great environment for sharing and learning. We introduce the team to content that can help them tackle their current challenges. And we hold them accountable to take the actions that they decide at their priorities. We say we hold our team members feet to the fire of their best intentions. We do this internationally with teams across the world. If you'd like to learn more about the Academy, go to www.aquilae.co.uk.

Andy: 2:31

Hello, Peter, and welcome and where are you coming to us from today?

Peter Jackson: 2:35

Hey, Andy, I'm calling in from Orange County. It's about an hour south of Los Angeles in Southern California.

Andy: 2:42

Beautiful, beautiful. And where did your journey start? Where did you grow up?

Peter Jackson: 2:48

funnily enough, I grew up about 20 minutes from where I'm calling in from right now. So I grew up in Newport Beach, Costa Mesa, in Orange County, Southern California spent the first 20 years of my life there. So it's a bit of a homecoming actually to be back in Orange County after many years away.

Andy: 3:08

Yeah, I know you've travelled and I look forward to hearing where you've been. And it's lovely that you're back there now. So tell us a little bit about when you were growing up. Tell us a little bit about your family situation. Brothers and sisters, that sort of thing.

Peter Jackson: 3:22

Yeah, I reflect on having a pretty idyllic childhood, I feel really lucky. grew up with my mom and dad, older brother and younger sister just kind of like a kind of a poster of the nuclear family, I guess you could say, and, you know, grew up in a really sweet neighbourhood, in this beach town where all the kids in our neighbourhood just really kind of trusted each other and rode bikes all around and kind of rode bikes to school together and went down to the beach and did all kinds of athletics. So it just felt like this really great neighbourhood to grow up in. You know, I just remember it so fondly feeling like it was such a safe and happy place to grow up. And I was really close with my siblings, my brother James and sister Katie. We went on, you know, really memorable family vacations together, most of which were road trips and the southwestern United States, but also periodically would go to Hawaii, which is a five hour flight from Southern California. So I have really fond memories of special family vacations together too. And it wasn't until you know, everyone started going to college, that we all kind of split up and started charting our own paths to different places. But funnily enough, my brother, sister and I all ended up in the San Francisco Bay Area at some point or another where we overlapped and so That was a that brought a really special chapter of our family life as well, just transitioning from childhood into adulthood, kind of like the kids leaving the nest, but all kind of ending up in a similar place.

Andy: 5:14

It's too cute. It's too cute feeder, it's lovely. It's the sort of the childhood you're describing is what we were being shown. As I was growing up, you know, on TV, there ain't any shows from California, that would have been, what we were being shown is you will play so well together in the sunshine and, and all getting on really well. And well, one of my guests introduced this word visibility few episodes ago. And in terms of the jobs that you had visibility of back growing up. So what were your parents doing? And tell us a little bit about that, please?

Peter Jackson: 5:56

Yeah, my parents both worked in healthcare. My dad worked in supply chain management and got into consulting. And my mom kind of wore a couple of different hats. But the ones that I really remember were, you know, she was she was really a dietitian, and a nutritionist kind of worked in public health programming. She had a master's in public health and a master's in Business Administration. So one of the jobs that she had was she ran, you know, kind of this new diabetes Centre at Hoag hospital, and a well known Hospital in Newport Beach. And so they were both, they were both in the health care space. And I think a lot of that kind of shaped, particularly on my mom's side, when she was a stay at home mother with us for about 10 to 15 years. I think a lot of her kind of background kind of shaped a lot of the way that she raised us, she was very cerebral, and just smart. You know. And so I think a lot of the way that we were raised was kind of based on a lot of her reading and a lot of her research and just wanting us to have as healthy kind of well rounded upbringings as we possibly could. So those were the the jobs that I remembered them having, that I was exposed to at the youngest age.

Andy: 7:15

So it sounds like he was very intentional about the parenting and what sort of acts and you've touched on really expectations around having a good childhood and having a wholesome beneficial childhood. What were their expectations beyond that, or was it was that mainly the idea?

Peter Jackson: 7:33

expectations from my parents? You mean? Oh, yeah, I would say, you know, the thing that was really sweet is I feel like my parents, they recognise from a young age that I was, you know, unique, like, I was a little gay kid trying to figure myself out. And I think that they, they really encouraged me to explore all of these different parts of me. So like, I had a lot of friends that, you know, they chose soccer, or they chose baseball or football. And that was it. Like they had this singular, you know, kind of passion or interest that they they pursued for a long period of time. And I feel like my parents kind of nurtured me to explore all of my different interests. So I never really stuck with one thing for too long. And so I tried baseball, I tried soccer, I did tennis, I did cross country. I even did fencing, like sword fighting at one point, like I really did try everything. And so I think that kind of shaped early on, like this life philosophy of, I want to experience as many things as possible. And it you know, it wasn't just in sports, you know, it was also the arts, it was singing, it was theatre, it was student government, that I started, you know, tutoring as like my first job when I was like, 12 years old. I had like a best friend who was struggling in math and his mom said, hail, I'll, I'll get I'll buy you a comic book. I'll take you both to the comic book store every week and buy you a comic book of choice if if you help tutor, your friend. And so anyway, I think that my parents really encouraged me to try a bunch of different things, to kind of see what my what my passions were,

Andy: 9:17

thus bringing back a lot of memories for me. Peter added similar in the sense of trying so many different things I did fencing, not for No way.

Peter Jackson: 9:29

Yeah, it wasn't particularly good at it.

Unknown: 9:31

Well, that was why I wasn't particularly good at many things, which is why I kept writing. I did ice skating for a while I did horse riding. I did rugby, swimming,

Peter Jackson: 9:43

water polo. Yeah, all of it.

Andy: 9:46

Yeah. So that was making me smile a lot to hear you talk about that list and as a student and how was he obviously reasonably good at math so better than your friend at maths I was there. How was school for you? How were you as a student,

Peter Jackson: 10:04

I loved school, I, I really thrived in that environment. And I was really involved. Like I was in clubs. I was vice president of ASB my senior year of high school. I was in plays, I was in athletics. I loved my studies, I tried to get in as many AP advanced classes as I could. I loved it. I just remember really fondly all of my school experiences. And it's kind of tough when you hear other people say, like, Oh, I really struggled in high school or middle school. And I was like, gosh, really, like am I the weirdo who just totally loved school. And I guess I was like, I was really academic and just loved how exposed I was to so many different things, and just kind of pursued everything that I could just completely filled my plate with as much as I could get my hands on. And just I remember just having a blast every step of the way.

Andy: 11:06

Now as a sound pretty ideal. And can I ask them so you said you your parents recognise you are unique. You're this little gay kid growing up, and how was that at school was that i mean is that you've told us it was wonderful. And I like to think that we're getting more and more kind of accepting. As I get older, I'm witnessing society getting more accepting, was it already accepting in your environment when you were growing up, which obviously is a lot more recent for you than it was for me, because you're younger, so we're not talking that long ago. But however,

Peter Jackson: 11:41

yeah, it was, um, it was definitely tough. I do remember, you know, I had slurs thrown at me kind of, every once in a while, and I don't I honestly don't even know what it was necessarily. But I, for some, some reason, I felt a lot more resilient than maybe I had any reason to just being as young and kind of immature as I was, I feel like I should have took those things harder. But I just kind of chalk it all up to my parents, and how they just made me feel like I could do anything. And I could kind of withstand anything that came my way. Like, I think it was hard, of course, you know, just like any kid I wanted to be. I wanted to be accepted. And I wanted to be in the in crowd and I didn't want to feel like a strange outsider. I think in hindsight, there could have been some subconscious drive there to get involved with as many things as I could to kind of Stoke this sense of belonging in a lot of different groups. So I didn't feel like this kind of outsider. Because, you know, Orange County is a, I don't I don't think it was the most accepting place to be. But I really don't have too many outstanding memories of feeling like really bullied and victimised in a way that kind of really knocked me on my butt. Yeah, that's, that's at least how I remember it.

Andy: 13:10

Well, I was gonna say, I wonder if, because because it sounds like you had a really high level of acceptance at home, too. So in terms of giving you confidence and sense of being Okay, and then I think it's difficult to then measure, isn't it? Because so many of us, like, you know, did lots of different things wanting to fit in, did lots of different activities, it's difficult to say how much of that could be related to do anything. Really, it's, you haven't got a control group, if you like to raise your again, so. And when you are going through school, when did you start to develop ideas of what you might like to do after school, what you might like to study or you know, what direction you wanted to go in?

Peter Jackson: 13:55

Yeah, that's a great question. I later in high school, I became very certain that I wanted to become a professional actor, and that I wanted to study theatre and I wanted to go into entertainment. Like I was so so set on that. And I really feel like one of the biggest kind of passion What should I even call it like, one of the biggest obstacles that I think I like first experienced was not getting into my college of choice if that shows you how silver spoon in my upbringing was, but I was so certain that I wanted to study theatre and be an actor. And I remember my parents being like, just apply to colleges with a general major so you can get into your school of choice. You've got fabulous grades, you've got an amazing resume, you could kind of get into any school you want. And I remember being so hard headed. I was like, I don't want to get into any school that I want. Like I want to get in as a theatre major. I want to be To actor. And so, you know, by applying into kind of drama degrees, you have that whole supplemental part of the application to audition. And you have to get into not only the university, but their theatre and performing arts department. And so I remember really wanting to go to UCLA, my dad and mom both went there, my dad's father went there, it was like something I'd always set my sights on. And when I didn't get into their acting programme, I was devastated. Like, that was what I really, really wanted. And so I was really questioning like an AI a bad actor, like should I not go into acting very dramatic, of course, not follow that passion of mine. But I ended up going to a smaller private university in Orange County called Chapman, where I did get accepted as a theatre major. And so I decided to go there, because that was also close to LA and it was going to be in my mind my path into the entertainment industry.

Andy: 16:06

So my daughter is pursuing that path. And she also produces that podcast, she edits our podcast, so I'm just hoping I asked the right questions. So I get you got into as a theatre major at a smaller school, near la just sound like I'm thinking geographically. If you want to be an actor, it's a good good part of the world to be in, you might think. And I'm also thinking that your sense of rejection that first time you got rejected by UCLA, well, rejection is something you've really got to get used to, if you want to pursue that acting. Yeah, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. So what happened then where you got to the to do the, to the school to as a theatre major? I know you're not an actor now. So I'm sure something has has changed along the way. But how was it at first and tell us what happened?

Peter Jackson: 17:10

Yeah, it's a great question. Um, that kind of first semester of college was kind of, in my reflection, a big kind of turning point in my life. I loved being a theatre major. But one of the one of the things that I just started feeling like my life was off track, I was still living at home because this was a spy university, I was living at home and commuting, like the 3040 minutes to this university. So I wasn't having the kind of on campus, feeling like a young, independent adult living away from home for the first time, that whole college fantasy that I in so many people have, when you you go away to school, that's the kind of experience you want to have. And so I think that I, I felt like not only was I, you know, still living at home, but I was also in a much smaller University than I pictured myself being. So there was something about kind of like, the expectations and the drive that I had for myself. That was different from where I was, I was like this, this isn't the dream that I had. This isn't, you know, what, what I hoped my experience was going to look like. And so by the end of that semester, I'd really started kind of experiencing depression and anxiety. I had it before. And to me that was kind of a symptom of something's wrong, like I'm not in the right place, and I need to make some kind of adjustment to alter the course or trajectory of my life. And so after that semester, I actually, I actually dropped out of Chapman. And I started going to a local community college, where I set my sights on. This just shows how persistent I was, I wanted to go to UCLA. So I, I went to Orange Coast College, big community college in Orange County, to kind of figure out what what was I doing, like taking stock of Hey, this, this isn't really going the way I hoped it would. So kind of continue doing my general education at OCC still taking theatre classes and you know, screen writing classes and still kind of having that at least partial focus on the arts, but really trying to redirect myself to a larger public university that I could move away, to go to to kind of finish my college experience.

Andy: 19:50

It's fascinating how we create we imagine the way we envision how it's going to be and we create this trajectory for us. So maybe some of that is influenced a lot by what we've seen what we've had visibility of, you know, to help us create that picture. And then if we drift away from the thing we've imagined, we want to do something about it. And I'm wondering, then, so you wanted to be an actor or you thought you wanted to be an actor, more than anything. However, that wasn't enough, because I'm sure you were acting at this small school. It was it was. It was also the context within which you were being an actor. Wasn't meeting your vision of how you were going to be at this stage in your life, you know, how you are going to be showing up what you're going to be doing, where you're going to be, how many people are going to be around you what the location will all this stuff was kind of mad. It's not quite at a it's a bit, Adeline. Right? So yeah, that's it. So it was more the whole picture, the whole environment you were looking to create for yourself. And acting was just a part of a part of that. So you've moved away, got yourself into a different environment, still had some acting going on some classes, but presumably less than you would have been doing? Had you stayed at the original school? Yes, that's right. And then you started trying to address some of the other bits of the picture. Right, right. make them look right, according? Yeah. Okay, so tell us a bit more than about it. Take us a bit further, please, Peter, with what was how that evolved?

Peter Jackson: 21:32

Yeah, so I ended up changing my major at community college, I, you know, kind of continued exploring a lot of different subjects I was interested in. And I really started focusing in on a psychology major, and taking a lot of literature classes. And so the way I kind of reflect on it is it felt kind of like a natural progression of someone who was really passionate about storytelling. Like, in a way I felt like theatre and psychology and literature. It's all about people in stories and what makes them tick, and what are their motives? And how do they live their lives. And so I think they all felt really related. But, you know, psychology felt like something that I could major in and really kind of take up a tonne of classes and love the sort of, kind of like art and science to it. And so that that is how I eventually applied to transfer out of community college. And I did end up getting accepted to UCLA and I ever Yeah, it was, it was so great. I remember getting that acceptance letter and like crying with my mom, because they my parents knew it was something that I wanted so badly. And so it felt like this course correction of kind of getting back on track to what my dream and what my plans were. But I think that those two years of really struggling to figure out who I was and what I was doing and where I was going, that was a really formative experience. And I'm really glad that that happened. Because I have no idea where I would be if I got straight into UCLA the first time around and I didn't appreciate or didn't experience that hardship of you know, not just not just getting everything that I wanted right off the bat. So I'm I'm glad that that struggle was there because I still think in a way it it kind of shapes a lot more of who I am today. I think I'm a better person today. Because I struggled so hard those couple of years.

Andy: 23:37

You had to work it out. And I love the example that you've shared where you've worked out that there's you were looking at acting as a way to be involved in certain things and activity that would give you I guess, certain things and then you discovered that there were other areas of life and work and study that will perhaps give you the same things but you just haven't come across them before or hadn't made the connection. And I just think that's a really useful discovery that what is it what's the core thing about you know, acting in that case in your case, what was it and Okay, maybe it was the the storytelling or the understanding people or whatever it was that you were engaging with when you were acting? singling that distilling it down to that is the bit that I really like and that's available in other shapes and sizes. Sorry, I'm going off on so because I just think I always encouraging people to work out what it is you love doing what activities do you love doing not what job title or what idea in yourself you love but what activities Do you really love doing and then Why is that? And where does that activity exist in different departments of the organisation maybe or in different roles, different jobs, different companies, different, all sorts of places, you might be able to find that you can still do that. Right? But so that you just gave me an exciting example of how you did that. So thank you. And so we sort of had the idea of being an actor by now dropped away, or were you still going to classes and auditions and things.

Peter Jackson: 25:32

So I, I wasn't auditioning, I didn't, I didn't actually perform in any plays in my college years, but I did continue exploring, acting and performing because it was still very much this passion of mine and my heart. So I was in a all male, acapella group at UCLA, I took some I think I took a screenwriting class there, I took an improv class in Hollywood, while we were, you know, I was living in LA, and even kind of, in my Later career years, I found opportunities to take an acting class, when I when I found one, or when I was feeling that sort of yearning and that draw to feeling like an artist again, and having that kind of creative outlet. I'm a little bummed to say that over the course of my career, that's kind of like fallen away a little bit. But I feel like it very much shows up in my day to day work in a way that I feel like I'm kind of, I'm keeping that passion alive, even it's if it's in a very different form, than I originally thought it might be like, I'm not on a stage in a Shakespearean play. But I'm, you know, facilitating like a training for a large class or some learning and development workshop.

Andy: 27:00

Yeah. And you you, you wanted to flex that muscle, so you would keep finding opportunities to do it. And now maybe you're flexing that muscle still in different in a different way, or a different environment, but still getting to do that. So what happened towards the end of your studies, then we you started to think about career paths, then how did that play out?

Peter Jackson: 27:25

Yeah. So when I, when I wrapped up at UCLA, I, I was graduating with a BA degree in psychology, I thought that I wanted to pursue maybe a masters or a PhD, that like a higher level degree to continue a career in kind of the clinical psychology direction. But, you know, again, fate kind of had different plans. I feel like you know, the the study that I was working in at UCLA is called the UCLA families in health study. I was I was trying to get a job in that study. But they didn't have like open research associate positions at that time. And so I wasn't able to kind of continue down that path. And so I started looking at just other jobs. And you know, around that time, I think it was like 2011, early 2012, it wasn't really a great job market. And I really struggled to to find to find it. My first job out of college, I ended up moving home, I think it was for about five months, trying to find out what my next step was going to be. And I started Setting my sights on the tech industry in Northern California, as an opportunity, again, to kind of move away from my hometown and experience something different, that I hadn't before. And I thought that tech would be, again, this interesting balance of art and science of, you know, trying to find some role that might be in like user experience research or design, or customer service, kind of focused on people, but also, you know, learning about some of the science and the business side of that, that I didn't know anything about. So of course, as a fresh out of college person I had no experience to stand on. So I really struggled to find, find my footing. And funnily enough, I had this random connection with a friend who was a recruiter at this very little known company at the time, called Tesla Motors. And it was this little electric vehicle startup, I didn't really know anything about it. And I'll never forget, you know, those initial conversations that I had with this recruiter Brandon, because it felt like it was just about to become this really exciting. thing. And I didn't know why. But I felt super drawn to it. And I wanted to jump on board, I loved the idea of sustainability and getting into a organisation that had a bigger mission that was trying to make a big impact on the world. And the first opportunity that presented itself to me was this role called a delivery specialist that would actually, you know, take these new Tesla vehicles and deliver them directly to customers homes, you know, facilitate this really special educational experience about this new product. For many folks that was their first time driving an electric vehicle or owning one. And so it was all about teaching them how this was a different lifestyle, how this was a great product, and really being a brand representative, like how do I be kind of an ambassador for this brand and get people really excited about being an early adopter of really new technology. So funnily enough, you know, so many folks that I met over my time at Tesla really tried hard to get in there, and they wanted to be a part of it. And I just kind of accidentally fell into it. Like it was the one place that would actually give me a job.

Andy: 31:22

I can see why he said fate, fate had other ideas. Yeah. And so tell us a little bit about those early years. How long did you spend at Tesla.

Peter Jackson: 31:33

So I was at Tesla for seven years, my first year and a half was in that delivery specialist role. Like I said, I was trying to get up to the San Francisco Bay Area. But when I went up there did a couple months of training and helping figure out what this delivery programme was going to look like. And they said, you know, we really need you back in LA. And I was like, okay, shoot, like, I really hoped I would be in the Bay Area. But if that's where you're telling me I need to be then let's do it. So I moved to LA, and was responsible for delivering customer vehicles as far north as Santa Barbara, as far south as San Diego, and even did a couple deliveries as far east as Las Vegas and as far west as Hawaii. So it was a pretty big region to manage. And, you know, one of the really fun benefits of those first couple of years there was by being based in LA, I got to do a lot of deliveries to cool actors and, you know, really idols of mine, in the kind of greater Los Angeles area. And so that was like a funny thread of like my kind of actor artist background, peeking its head up again, in my first job out of college, getting to deliver cars to these cool famous people's homes that you know, I loved them. I saw them in movies, I listened to their albums. And that that was a really neat, really neat time.

Andy: 33:04

Here's the most exciting customer for you. And Peter that you delivered to

Peter Jackson: 33:09

it was definitely Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman is like one of my more kind of well known delivery stories with a bunch of friends that worked at the company with me, that was a really memorable experience.

Andy: 33:22

I'm sure it was sure it was. And so that was your so your first role was delivery specialist delivering the cars wanting to get up to San Francisco Bay Area. But Tesla Ross you to go back to LA there's a lot of that I experienced in Tesla as well. We need you over here. And people willingly would just go and we'll perhaps talk a little bit about the the culture of Tesla seven years is a good chunk of time and what year would you have started there?

Peter Jackson: 33:56

That was May of 2012.

Andy: 33:59

Right? So probably was that early days of Model S deliveries that model?

Peter Jackson: 34:05

Yeah, the decyl Model S started deliveries in June actually. So I was joining right before the Model S launch. And I think we only delivered 2500 before the end of that year if my memory serves me correctly. And so we were joining getting ready to deliver those vehicles to customers. So it was it really was early days. I think I was employee number 1800. And by the time I left the company, it was something like 40 45,000 so it it really transformed over those short seven years.

Andy: 34:39

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go back because I think I might get told off otherwise by if no other listeners then at least my daughter is there more to say about Morgan Freeman.

Peter Jackson: 34:53

Just that he was really sweet and very patient with this young kid who knew Really was stumbling, to give him like the best experience I could. I mean, the funniest part of the whole story was that these were literally like the first 40 cars that had been produced. And so it had all kinds of quirks and glitches and challenges. But um, that it was not the ideal delivery experience. Let's put it that way. And so why the story is so memorable is because I had to put on this whole sing and dance to try and make sure the experience for him went great, even though you know, kind of the early early product that he got was was not in its best form. So yeah, it was it was a really memorable experience, to say the least.

Andy: 35:42

I'm glad he was Wait, I think everybody out all the listeners will be. That's what we hoped we hoped Morgan Freeman would be sweet in real, right. And I'm thinking that's some slight, you know, you're getting to use some of your skills, I'm sure you had some kind of a script that you informally working through when you did your handovers and your deliveries, and definitely you're acting as an ambassador. So putting on the right impression to everyone. So a little bit of your your former passion, being able to be deployed in the role, and people don't tend to stay in roles, long time. And I'm sure when the business was growing from 1800 people, as you say, to 45,000 people over the seven years that you were there, the need for you to move jobs and grow very quickly and take on more responsibility would have been quite high. So how did how what happened after delivery specialist? What was the next opportunity?

Peter Jackson: 36:43

Yeah, so just by nature of when I happened to join, and the fact that I was one of three of these roles, the delivery specialists that were hired, there were a tonne of opportunities to help train new delivery team members that were being hired. And so everybody would be flown into Palo Alto to be trained. And they would draw from the folks who were out in the field to help train those folks and kind of bring that field experience to their kind of onboarding. And so I just sort of naturally gravitated toward that, because I loved being a student, I loved the whole teacher student, kind of dynamic. And so I wanted to get involved in training. And that was really when I made the switch into a, like, learning and development career path was when after that year and a half, you know, the the team leadership and saying, Hey, we're looking to our European expansion. And we need someone who has kind of been through this kind of process before, who can help ensure our European launch goes more smoothly. And so it was that summer actually 2013 that I went to Norway for a few months to help launch our European operations, and really support from a training perspective, how do our operations work? How do we use our systems? How do we onboard new employees into this team and introduce them to our, you know, company mission and our history, our story, our culture? And then of course, the customer experience angle of it? How do we deliver vehicles and what is our sort of service philosophy for making this a really special experience for the community. So after a few months in Norway, really kind of testing this idea of helping train and support the European launch, there was actually an opportunity to formalise that training role and have it be based in Amsterdam, where our headquarters for the emia business was going to be. And so I actually relocated with my partner to Amsterdam, where we lived for about two years, to really focus on not just training, that growing delivery organisation, but the whole customer facing organisation, our new network of retail stores and service centres and other folks joining headquarters to kind of give them a great orientation and onboarding, teach them about our products, the Tesla customer journey and our approach to service. It was really a blast, not just from a professional side, but personally I you know, I've never travelled to Europe before. My family heritage is largely Norwegian and kind of men, Northern European. So it was really special to get to go out there and kind of travel to that part of the world for the first time. And

Andy: 39:46

when this opportunity came up to go to Norway, Peter, how was this then fitting with your vision, your trajectory that how you imagined your life was gonna be Is it starting to feel like oh, yeah, this is more like how I imagined that this is getting closer, or was this just to, you know, like, Whoa, I didn't think this this is completely fresh.

Peter Jackson: 40:11

It's a it's a good question I, I think it just kind of presented this, and presented itself is this really unique and amazing opportunity that I thought, when am I ever getting going to get an opportunity like this again, and I just seized it, I jumped at it, probably without thinking about it all too much. And again, I think that kind of comes out a little bit of this early, or this life philosophy that started taking shape early in my life of just, I want to experience as many things as I possibly can. And I don't, I don't think I ever pictured myself kind of moving abroad or living abroad. And so when that opportunity came up, I just thought, wow, I don't think I ever pictured something like this happening. And so that it felt very special. And so I thought this means something, I've got to follow this and see where it takes me. And, you know, when I think back on kind of my experiences with acting, I think there was there was this thrill of kind of into another person's shoes or another world and experiencing something different. And so in a way, I almost feel like even though I stopped kind of acting, in the theatre, it's almost like I tried to create, I tried to make my own life, that story, like I tried to make my life that really interesting story. That was really thrilling and exciting to live, which is like, I'm gonna, I'm going to move to Europe, if I get an opportunity to do so I'm going to move to Asia, if I can create the opportunity to do so. In I don't, I don't know if that makes any sense. But I just kind of have reflected on that. The last several years that I'm like, make your life the story that could be on a stage someday.

Andy: 42:08

I love it. I love it. You decided, right? For the next x years, I'm gonna play Peter Jackson. It's gonna be a hell of a roll. And, yeah, it's it's brilliant way to look at it. And I was already thinking, you know, there's a number of ways you could have had the journey you've had with Tesla, you could have been an engineer, you could have been, you know, software engineer, you could have been, you know, something else, you know, mechanical engineer, or whatever it is, you could have been finance you could have done, there's different things, but it seems like the absolutely most fitting one for you, where you could, you could, you know, would be the learning and development where you can retain, take on new information, have the confidence and the desire to share it with others have the presence to stand at the front of the room. And I'm not saying just, you know, for my daughter's benefit, she's going to be listening. And I'm not suggesting that actors and presenters are the same thing. I know that but what I'm just pointing out is that, you know, you're using that confidence, that ability to be up in front of people to to then ride, right, that amazing growth wave within within Tesla. And as new opportunities came, and new people needed to be on boarded and trained and developed and taught how things work, then yeah, it's I really love it. And then the fact that you thought, hang on, I'm just going to, I'm not going to stand in someone else says shoes, who's a great character in a play. I've got my own shoes, and I'm going to write my own story, my own play, and it's going to be it's going to be an amazing one. So yeah, I'm, I'm sold. I'm buying a ticket to the Peter Jackson show. Right and I'm in danger then I've completely losing track because I'm getting overexcited. So you've got to Amsterdam. Now you're you're in the European headquarters, which is where I think we did meet once. I think you were visiting there. I don't think you at the time base there, but I might be wrong. But it was Annie Waechter, who introduced as Annie's Episode One of she was my go to person. I'm doing a podcast the person who is going to launch this is Annie wept, because she's absolutely wonderful, wonderful. Great story. And then she said, Andy, you've got I said, Who Annie, who else should I talk to? And she said, Well, you've got to have Peter. And and then it was only after I think we first spoke that I thought I had no idea We've met before and I was able to go back in my in my diary fortunate because my memory is not great, but my journal is very reliable. And we say that we have meetings and I remember meeting you face to face in Amsterdam. So that's where you were you were in the in the office near the i x arena, outside the town centre, and fully fully in our learning and development role that and that's right. And happy doing it. Yeah.

Peter Jackson: 45:31

Oh, absolutely loved it. Yeah, I think it's just such an exciting time to be at the company, just everything that we were doing and experiencing kind of felt that sounds cheesy, but just kind of tinge to with a little bit of magic, like everyone felt like we were doing something really special and important. And that was just intoxicating. Like, I just feel so grateful to have ever had that opportunity at all to feel like the work that I was doing was not only a blast, and I got to grow and meet some of the most wonderful people that are still a part of my life and made a huge impact on me. But to feel like that work was really recognised and a big and public way, as you know, making a meaningful difference in the world, like what feels better than that. So that that was it was really a special professional experience, being out there and getting to train all these new people and welcome them to this really exciting company with a really neat mission. So professionally, it was great. And I think, personally, for me, it was it was transformative. You know, growing up in Orange County, and going to college in LA, like my world was kind of small, like I had only really, you know, lived in Southern California for 22 years, 23 years. And so when I found myself living abroad in this city with really a rich history, and you know, some buildings that had dates on them that predated the founding of the United States, like it was, it just felt like I was a storybook or a history book. And it was it was just, it really changed the way I think that I've thought about what was possible in my life. Because, you know, it felt like this really bold and terrifying leap to make when I was moving for the first time, it just felt like oh my gosh, that I can't think of anything crazier, bigger to do. And then when I found myself on the other side, it was like, Oh, my God, I'm, I'm living on the other side of the world. And I like I can do this, like

Andy: 47:42

I owe and nothing awful is happening.

Peter Jackson: 47:45

Yeah, totally. It's like I'm surviving. I'm figuring it out from figuring things out. But yeah, it just kind of unlocked this whole new level of what is possible in your life, things that you want to accomplish or experience.

Andy: 48:01

And if that isn't an advert, if the last couple of minutes view talking about coming out of Orange County, which is a very desirable place to be very exciting place to be, yeah, but your last couple of minutes of just talking about what it did for you to travel and come to Europe and is I hope, got some people excited and thinking of broadening their horizons to I would like to talk a little bit if we may, Peter, about the mission, this idea of mission at Tesla, I was lucky enough, I only spent two years they're not seven, like you. But what one thing I was lucky, I felt very lucky was to experience what it's like in a culture, which is truly mission driven, where people are, you know, very much focused on that and genuinely believe that they understand why they're there, and why they are doing the jobs that they're doing and how it's contributing in a meaningful way to something greater than themselves. And to experience that to live through it. For two years was, you know, it really made an impact on me. And you said earlier about, you know, your Mo, onboarding people and explaining the mission. And I'm just wanted to ask you how many, you know what proportion of people who your onboarding already knew the mission when they got there?

Peter Jackson: 49:27

I would have to say in the beginning, it wasn't many, you know, but a Tesla just radically transformed over the course of those seven years. And I think that, you know, in the later years, a lot of people came in knowing what we were trying to do and they were drawn to the company because of that mission. So I think that it kind of changed over time. But that was a big, it was a big responsibility on the learning and development team shoulders that everyone needs to come Through onboarding, having a very clear understanding of what we're here to do, what that needs to look like and how we're going to do it.

Andy: 50:09

Yeah. So I joined a little bit later than you 2015 2016 were my two years. And I would say in the UK, by then what struck me was how it seemed that people joined because of the mission, they, they didn't learn the mission once they got there, which was, you know, might be very typical in a corporate organisation. But they had, they'd heard about the mission, somehow. And they had stopped whatever they were doing, whether they were, there was a mixture of people, you know, they could have been working in an apple store, they could have been personal trainer, they could have been plumber didn't matter what they put down their tools, a bit like that seen in their first Encounters of the Third Kind, which may be too old for you, but where the guy gets fixated on this building this shape, so they put down their tools, and they just came to Tesla, and they knocked on the door. And they tried to knock on the door for 18 months or two years, or however long it took before someone would let them in. Yeah, right. So you're nodding, you're nodding. So you're, you're agreeing with me. And I think I work with clients, and I want them to really grasp the power of that as a contributor to your overall performance. Yeah, I believe there are four fundamental contributors to performance. And one of them is this sense of purpose and understanding why and having a mission that's bigger than ourselves to tap into. And that was it was witnessing at a Tesla that really drove that home to me as if you don't have this in your business, you're missing out, you will know you're not be performing to the same level. And the way Tesla has been able to do what it's done, is by tapping into that sense of purpose, and what it means is possible. Sorry, I'm talking way too much. But people will give everything the level of discretionary effort you get Oh, from from people. Yeah, huge.

Peter Jackson: 52:07

Oh, couldn't agree more. I mean, that, you know, it was funny, because as you know, I did lead our global orientation team for a while there. And it never ceases to amaze and inspire me what groups of people and individuals were capable of doing. When you build though full heartedly in what you were doing. Like the mission was everything. It truly was everything. And I think that it made everyone feel this sense of not only purpose, but just this, like urgency and this commitment that your contribution matters. And if we don't, you know, perform well, it's not like you get a kind of shoddy performance review. Like it wasn't about that it was like, we're not making the impact on the world that we need to be making. Because at that time, it felt like we were the only ones really doing it in a serious way. So I think, you know, without, without that really clear focus on what we were trying to do and why it mattered. I really don't think we would have been able to accomplish the amazing things that we did are the things that Tesla's continuing to accomplish. I couldn't agree more.

Andy: 53:23

How long were you in Amsterdam? for Peter?

Peter Jackson: 53:27

So I think it was exactly 18 months. I think if you looked at a bunch of different kinds of trips and short term assignments around that it was around two years, but we lived there for a year and a half.

Andy: 53:41

And your partner was with you.

Peter Jackson: 53:43

Yes, yeah. He He moved over with me. He worked in a amazing little Mexican food restaurant called Los Polonius in kind of a centre of Amsterdam while we lived there.

Andy: 53:55

I'm sure that some of my listeners of x Tesla will know it will know. Yes, so it's good. And how as I always ask ours, when people do international moves, I always ask how was the conversation with your partner, when you talked about going to Amsterdam, or Norway, first of all, did he go to Norway as well,

Peter Jackson: 54:15

he came to Norway, for part of it. Norway was always going to be kind of a shorter term project is about three, four months. So he came out for a couple of weeks of that, which was really special. Amsterdam was a different conversation, because we were we were planning on moving there with an open end date. Like we didn't know when we were going to come back. And I remember that conversation being a little scary because I didn't I wasn't sure he wanted to do that. He was like, Yeah, I'd love to visit but I don't know what that means for my career and my aspirations. And so I remember breaking down to him and being like, I don't want to go without you like I need I need to go. I need us to go together. Like I don't want to. I don't want you to stay behind like I want us to Stay together and keep working on this. So I think that he, you know, eventually came around and we moved there together. And oh my gosh, are we glad we did like, we still reflect on that being, you know, one of the best experiences of our life and our love story,

Andy: 55:16

it's one thing to go, isn't it when you're the protagonist in this, you know, you're the male lead in this particular scene? You're, you're the guy that's been asked to go by Tesla. And you're drinking the Tesla Kool Aid and, you know, absolutely on the mission. And Evans it's bold and courageous and scary for you know, for him, it's like, Yeah, but I'm not getting all the God all the benefits that only that you're getting. So but yeah, it's great that with hindsight, you both recognise it was a cool thing to do. And you've just, you know, reminded me the shortness of, you know, assignments, if you like, or people staying, you know, typically in a corporate organisation, if they move you to another country, you can expect to get two or three years before you get disrupted. Again. So 18 months, what happened after 18 months in Amsterdam.

Peter Jackson: 56:14

So after 18 months, we were starting to expand into Asia Pacific. And so the role that I was in at that time was kind of transitioning from focusing on learning and development for the delivery organisation in Europe, to now, including Asia Pacific, and kind of just globally, how do we train new employees and existing employees in the global delivery organisation? So we actually moved back to the San Francisco Bay Area, for the first time, really, to be there for a couple of years, and be in a bit more of a global role. As we continued our international expansion.

Andy: 56:59

Okay. And then I know you end up you do end up in Asia Pacific, didn't you say was that was that after the spell in San Francisco? It was Yeah,

Peter Jackson: 57:09

so there, there was a big organisational kind of restructuring, I believe in about a cache, I think it was 2016. And the restructuring was this integration of the delivery organisation into the retail sales organisation like that was all going to be one large group. And so when we did that, we also changed our learning and development organisational structure to map to that. So we integrated the delivery training organisation into the retail sales training group. So it wasn't until the end of that integration that I really realised I was facilitating myself out of a job. And so I found myself, Oh, crap. So what do I do now. And I remember talking to my boss at the time, and he's, you know, I was a little lost, I didn't know where I saw myself in this kind of new picture. And I remember my boss at the time saying, Well, you know, the next frontier for Tesla is really the expansion into China, and APAC. And I immediately said, I want to be there. If that if there's an opportunity where I can be there to do what I felt like I had been doing for Gosh, what, four, four years or so at that point, I was kind of like this missionary, and kind of going around the world, teaching people about the Tesla mission in the work, we were doing an onboarding them in the company, whatever role they were in, but really specifically focusing on customer facing folks. And if APAC was the next kind of wave of expansion, I thought, who better than me to kind of come out and spread the good word and connect them into the global Tesla community so that, you know, funnily enough, Evan and I leapt at that opportunity faster than we did. Amsterdam, having had that Amsterdam experience, and the Hong Kong, you know, way around actually was a lot harder. Turns out living in Hong Kong, it's very different than living in Amsterdam. But it was a wonderful experience in very different ways. Much, much more challenging, in ways that we we really couldn't have foreseen until we got there.

Andy: 59:30

Let's go there in a moment. And I love how you are basing your decision on whether to go there on the experience you'd had in Amsterdam, which of course was logical, but apparently not that helpful, because it got you there, but maybe not as relevant as he thought it might be. But just before we leave San Francisco, perhaps say a little about working in their headquarters. Were you in there were you at Fremont or in new Yep,

Peter Jackson: 1:00:00

in Fremont, the factory kind of South in the East Bay Area of the San Francisco Bay. It was really neat working out of Fremont, the, you know that that global headquarters really felt like the heart of the global company that just kind of pumped its blood through this really complex circulatory system around the world. And so there was really a sense of excitement that came from being in the centre of it all. in a funny way, I, I don't know if I really felt like I belonged there. In the same way that I felt like I belonged in some of these kind of international headquarters, I feel like a lot of people that I've talked to working in, maybe specifically US based global companies, you're in a bit of a different, you're in a different culture or a different team, when you're kind of, you know, you're separate from the mothership, you're in the Europe headquarters, or you're in the APAC headquarters. And so there's a lot of challenges and kind of differences in the experiences working in those offices, compared to working in the global headquarters, there's a little bit of a sense of like, Oh, they don't understand us as well here. They don't know the differences in our culture, or the way our countries work. And I don't know if this is like part of my experience being like a gay or a queer person, but I kind of liked that experience of feeling like the other person, like I wasn't in the global HQ, but I was with a group of people that sort of felt like misfits and a big global company. So I really, like enjoyed being in Fremont. But I think I really more so enjoyed being kind of the represent, like the ambassador, are the representative of Fremont, in the offices in other parts of the world. I don't quite know how to reflect on it other than it just felt it felt it felt more special, like you felt like a bigger fish in a small pond, rather than in this big headquarters of all these big important people. I was like, I don't really know if this is, this is where I belong, at least right now.

Andy: 1:02:14

Yeah, completely understand that. And there's a when you're in a market, or perhaps even a regional headquarters, European headquarters or Asian headquarters? Yeah, there's a sense that you're in this together, you've got a small like, there's usually a smaller number of people there. Yeah. And you do understand your situation better than the headquarters seems to. And so you bond over that. And you can usually see a bit closer to the action in terms of seeing the impact that you're having on the customers, you're delivering the vehicles and so it can feel more alive. And yeah, quite a few people say they prefer being in the market.

Peter Jackson: 1:03:04

That's a great point. And I do distinctly remember that was one of the things I missed when I was in Fremont and kind of leading a global team, I felt more distant from the business and the impact that we were having. And so I really longed for a return to that closeness of really seeing your handprint that you put on something or on someone's experience like really being able to impact what was happening on the front lines. And I think that was part of what inspired the move to Hong Kong was wanting to be in a place where the impact could be felt and seen.

Andy: 1:03:47

Yeah, yeah. So you said getting to Hong Kong was not quite what you expected or is more challenging than you thought it was going to be? Tell us a little bit about that? Well, so

Peter Jackson: 1:03:58

I remember my first, my first opportunity to travel to a packet started happening when I was still living in Amsterdam. I think I got a couple work trips to Hong Kong and Beijing. And I remember the very first time I was in Hong Kong, I distinctly remember chatting with some local team members there and I was like, I'm in love with the city like I'm going to live here someday. I don't know how the heck I'm going to do it. But I'm gonna live here someday, because this place is fascinating. This whole idea of where the East Meets the West, this kind of global financial centre in Southeast Asia, it was like nothing I'd ever experienced before. And I got that opera when I got the opportunity to move out there. We we made sure it had kind of like a start and an end date on it with the possibility of renewing it at the end because we didn't quite know exactly what the opportunity was going to be just yet. But it was like hey, Pete's got all this experience with Tesla and helping support new market launches. Let's just get him out to Asia and have him focus on the countries outside of China and just kind of, kind of see, see what happens. And when we moved there, the biggest challenges were one that there was so much work to do, like, Tesla had changed a lot between 2012 and 2017. It had grown up in America and Europe, in particular, in many ways, in Asia was kind of because it was the next frontier, it was, it was a start up again, like it was very much getting on its feet. And so I think, I don't know if I fully appreciate it, before moving out there, like that was part of the reason. But I remember being there and being like, you know, the country directors of Hong Kong and Taiwan and Korea and Japan and Australia, New Zealand, every one of them was like, my market is the number one priority for Tesla's APEC business. And I need you here doing this, that and the other. And so at first, it felt really intoxicating and excited to be needed to be like, we need you here to help us like I thrived in that kind of position where there was a lot of help that I could provide. But I think I really, for the first time, probably overdid it, where I think I was travelling, probably for 80% of the time that we were in Hong Kong. And while that was very, very exciting to be going to all of these new countries that I'd never been to before. On the personal side, it was crushing on my relationship, because Evan found himself alone in a foreign country with me always gone working. And he actually wasn't able to find a job in Hong Kong the same way that he was able to in Amsterdam. And a big part of that was because we're a same sex couple. And the kinds of benefits that were available to us in Hong Kong were totally different than in Amsterdam. And so that was also something that we didn't fully understand or appreciate going into it. And that that that was really tough. Like it we we both reflect on Hong Kong as being a great cultural mind expanding growth experience for the two of us, but not because it was all sunshine and butterflies, because it actually broke us down and made us rebuild, essentially the way that we kind of related to each other and made decisions together and built the kind of work life balance or harmony that we needed to be a strong couple and just have a healthier relationship with work.

Andy: 1:07:56

Did you manage to turn it around during the time you're in Hong Kong? Or was it just a really tough time for Evan throughout?

Peter Jackson: 1:08:04

It was a really tough time, mostly near the end, I would say, you know, the beginning was really exciting when everything was new. But about halfway in, it was like, Okay, this is this is a lot like this is really different. This is a very different place to live a very different culture. Being abroad. And not having a job or a sense of purpose each day is totally different than when you've got a place to go and a community that you're a part of, I think in very different but also similar ways. Both Evan and I felt extremely isolated. Over the course of that year, I don't even know how many flights I was on, or how many nights I spent in a hotel in a foreign city. But, you know, at the end of the day, I had something to show up to each day. And I had work that I could do to kind of channel my energy and myself into. And he was, you know, alone in a giant city without a job. So it was really hard. And and I don't think we really kind of grappled with all of the fallout of that. until after we moved home. We moved back to Oakland in the San Francisco Bay area to just kind of take stock of where we at. How did this go? What do we need to do from here to kind of just focus more on each other and focus more on just kind of our life outside of work. And it was really that year that I decided I think it's actually time to move on from Tesla.

Andy: 1:09:41

There's so much in there, Peter, I mean, Tesla's not a place that leaves a lot of space for work life balance, where it certainly wasn't. I'm not sure how much it might have changed, but as right i think it's kind of harsh but fascinating that, you know, a little while ago, I was extolling the merit have purpose and we were talking about how incredible it is what you can achieve when you're bought into a mission and you've got that sense of purpose. And then there's this rather brutal experiment with Evan, where we're saying, okay, you just sit there without a purpose for a year in a in a strange city. And oh, my goodness, guess what, it's really hard and painful and yeah, a brutal thing to do to someone, but something that you don't realise till afterwards, and you're looking back, you're back in Oakland and sort of deconstructing what happened and thinking, how can we make? You know, we don't do it quite like that. Yeah. So really, really, really interesting. And thanks for for sharing that. So how you decided to move you thought, right, I've probably ready to move on.

Peter Jackson: 1:10:52

Yeah. Yeah, the just to comment on that there really was kind of a dark side of it. There were a lot of are a lot of other stories that I became aware of folks who had similar experiences as me where you just kind of overdid it like you were so committed, and so bought in so obsessed with the work, that you really let a lot of other things just kind of fall by the wayside. And so I think, when everything kind of blew up at the end of Hong Kong, we realised that we needed to do a serious recalibration of our relationship and our life. It there, there was a recognition Even then, in 2018, moving back home that it was like, we need to start exploring, like, where do we go from here. And I think it was then that we had this heart to heart about, I don't know, if Tesla's the like, this was an amazing place to be in our 20s, I don't know if this is the same place that I need to be as we start talking about starting a family and kind of looking to this next chapter of our life together. And that was when that was when we started planting the seeds of where we wanted to go. So I didn't leave Tesla until actually the spring of 2019. But that that year, back in California was kind of getting back on our feet, sort of licking our wounds a little bit reestablishing our relationship, but also my relationship with work. And just getting that more under control. And I think, in early 2019, that was when there was this opportunity to join Airbnb. It it's funny putting myself back in my shoes at that time, because for anyone who has that Tesla between 2018 and 2019, that was a really hard moment in time for the business scaling up model three, like it just it was really grinding in a very difficult metamorphosis that a lot of people didn't make it through. And I think Airbnb to me, felt like just the antithesis of Tesla, where, you know, they, they have a really inspiring mission to have, you know, creating a world where anyone can belong anywhere, like I loved that idea, but it just felt so much lighter. Like it, Tesla kind of had this dark side to it, where it was like, the world is a dirty, bad place. And we've got to save everyone. And you know, that felt good. But, you know, you got to a point where you're like, ah, like, it's really hard trying to save the world, like, what the heck are we doing here? Like, we're all grinding ourselves into dust trying to quote unquote, save the world. And so I think going to Airbnb, and, you know, thinking about hospitality and travel and global culture, and opening your homes up to each other, like it just couldn't have felt softer compared to what we were doing at Tesla. And so I think it really appealed to a lot of the things that I had grown to love over my career chapter at Tesla, customer service, community education, hospitality, culture, travel, so that that is really what called to me. And, you know, I don't think it's an accident that my experience there was kind of cut short, like I was only there for a year and a half. And I think part of it is because I realised once I was in the door, as much as I loved my experience there for what it was. I really did miss that sense of purpose and meaning that came from, you know, working in the sustainability space. And I think that that realisation is a big part of what brought me to rivian Was that, you know, Tesla wasn't this like flash in the pan where I, you know, that was the only time I was going to work in a sustainability kind of Evie company. There was a lot that I learned and got out of that experience that I wanted to carry forward. In my career like an Airbnb I found so many. I found so many of my experiences and the lessons that I had learned, were just kind of on a shelf gathering dust and I couldn't, I couldn't leverage them to deliver more impact or have more meaning in my work at Airbnb, and transitioning into rivian. Another incredibly exciting Evie, startup. All of that experience is relevant, every last thing, not just the things that we did, but the things that we didn't do the things we got wrong, the things that, you know, in hindsight, we should have totally done a different way. And so I feel, I feel like Airbnb was kind of the pause and the brake, and the nice soft cushion that I needed it to be to figure out what is the next chapter of my career going to look like? And I feel fully activated at rivian. Again, where everything that I've accumulated over the course of my career so far, I can apply that here and I can help this company with another inspiring mission be successful.

Andy: 1:16:29

How good does it feel when you're using as much as what you've got to bring in a role? That is it comes out in often in these conversations, people will switch into a role. And often they're, you know, that they're using as much as possible of what they've ever done before. Plus, there's something new, you know, there's an element of growth, there's an element of challenge, there's a percentage, which is uncharted territory for them. And that's just perfect. And it makes sense, therefore, that the opposite of that is if you find yourself in a role, like you had an Airbnb, which was a delightful breath of fresh air and just the break you needed, so ironic that air b&b was like a holiday for 18 for you, but then you gradually realised oh my goodness, I've got all this knowledge, skill experience all this capability that's on the shelf, as you put it, and that becomes our becomes almost like a nagging burden that potential Yeah, anything I can't sit it is wrong to sit here and not use this. And yeah, it's I hadn't looked hadn't. we've, we've talked about it from the direction of Okay, so yeah, and I got this job. And it was great because it used all of these my skills, going back to almost the day I left University, and I was touching it, but I haven't looked at it from the point of view of what happens if you find yourself in a role where you're not using enough of what you've done, and what you've got, how frustrating that is So, okay, so, so rivian is, is using everything that you've, you've learned so far.

Peter Jackson: 1:18:14

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's gonna be it's just, there's a lot of Evie startups out there. And I definitely kind of thought about a lot of them as possible next steps that I can take. But there was always something about rivian when it kind of came out onto the scene in 2018. That really grabbed my heart. I was like, that is an exciting, that's an exciting place. They're doing something different. And I think what it was for me is that what what Rhydian is doing is truly additive. There are not other Evie companies or other big auto companies out there that are doing what's what rivian is doing. And that's what I think is truly going to push forward. The electrification of transportation is all of these different companies that are doing different things, not kind of competing for similar pieces of the pie, but actually taking on more of the pie to get more and more segments of the auto industry electrified. So reviens all about, you know, large pickup trucks and large SUVs, which obviously in the US are a huge market. And so and they're also heavily probably the most heavily polluting vehicles in the auto industry. So out of all of the vehicles that really need to go electric, those are kind of the top two big pickup trucks and big SUVs. So I'm really excited for the potential for rivia n to have an outsized impact on accelerating the electrification revolution but also What's neat is we're on the b2b side, making sure that these transportation vans, or sorry, delivery vans are becoming electrified. So we've got this partnership with Amazon, to build 100,000 Electric delivery vans for them for their last mile delivery efforts. So these are really new parts of this electrification story, that rivian is going to be the first to market and a couple of ways to bring some really compelling products that will electrify these important, heavily polluting segments of the industry.

Andy: 1:20:34

You say that these so articulate, Pater, and the way you deliver the story is wonderful. And I'm glad you said a little bit about what rivian does, because I'm just sometimes have a laugh, telling people that when I even when I joined Tesla, which was some years after you, I had to explain what Tesla was after saying, you know, I work for Tesla electric car company in California. And I'm imagining that for some, even for some listeners who are interested in automotive their rivian still going to, you know, some will be wondering what is it really and so it's large trucks, large SUVs, big pickup trucks is a beautiful beach theme behind you. Obviously listeners can't see this. But your background is this wonderful beach scene with a beautiful blue pickup rivian pickup on the beach there looks fantastic. So that is what Caribbean's doing and Arabian vehicles available already Are you still waiting to launch.

Peter Jackson: 1:21:30

So they are, they are available for pre order. Now, deliveries are beginning this fall. So we are just months away from the beginning of our r1 t pickup truck deliveries and the r1 s STD deliveries. And like you can see in the picture, they are amazing products. And I just can't wait to start seeing them out on the road. Because I really think they are going to capture the imagination of a whole new population of people that maybe haven't gone electric yet, because they have a preference for certain body styles. And this could be the whole a whole new wave of people going electric that haven't gone before. So before the end of the year, we'll start seeing them on the streets in the US. And next year. I think we're still waiting to announce kind of when our European deliveries will officially. But it'll be in the next year. A couple years.

Andy: 1:22:25

Yeah, it's I share your excitement for that. And what role are you doing now, Peter,

Peter Jackson: 1:22:32

so I lead a commercial learning and development team. Very similar to work that I did at Tesla, which was, you know, focusing on people in our retail stores, our call centre customer engagement centre, our delivery teams, folks that are staffing events, and partnering really closely with our service learning and development team to make sure all of their front of house customer facing folks are getting the same kind of training support that all customer facing teams receive. So that's that's the work that my team is focused on now. So it's all about, again, creating these Brandon's that are if any customer is interacting with one of them at any point in their purchase or ownership journey, they will feel like that as a rivian person. And they spoke the rivian language, they had consistent messaging or understanding of our stories and our products, and also a alignment around a customer service philosophy that really led to a unique and human and warm purchase and ownership experience.

Andy: 1:23:46

What came into my mind as you were describing, that you're painting, that picture of what you're looking for, to create was the word showbusiness. And it made me think of then Disney and you know, when you go to Disney is all about the customer experience. But everyone is a cast member. And when you you know, you go backstage, you know, that's what they call it when you're not in Main Street, or whatever. And so I'm just I love to connect back to your original personal trajectory or mission and how you're curating show business here for for an A customer experience through your team. And I'm wondering, if or when rivian goes to APAC? Are you going?

Peter Jackson: 1:24:33

Oh, gosh, that's such a good question. Um, I don't I don't know about APEC. So if we have a headquarters in Australia, I actually think that could be an amazing place to live. We also have adopted our first son late last year and so we're thinking about, you know, not just what would be a good experience for me and my husband, but what would be a good experience for him growing up for a year or several years and another country. So I think Australia would be cool. I definitely fantasise about, you know, maybe Shanghai and Mainland China or maybe Japan to be determined, we'll see if an opportunity even presents itself. But I think we would definitely without question lunch it an opportunity to go back to Europe, if we could to help support reviens expansion into Europe. So definitely on Europe, maybe on a pack, I think the conditions would have to be right.

Andy: 1:25:30

Well, certainly Australia, they like their use, as they call the pickups. So I see there being a big market there. And so talking about the culture at rivian. And we talked a little bit about the, the all encompassing culture at Tesla, if you like, how does it compare? At Rovio

Peter Jackson: 1:25:58

is the most significant difference that I can pinpoint is, I'm just going to say what feels really best in it, it just feels more human. Like, there was something about Tesla that felt it felt, you know, in the beginning, it was this really warm, tight community, it very well could be the size of the company, too. So I'm definitely conscious of that. But I think that, you know, there was there's so much focus on technology, and the product and automation and manufacturing, like these really, you know, not really like these warm human things to focus on. And what's really beautiful about rivian is it's kind of the opposite of that, like, it is still a real high tech state of the art product. But the way that we talk about them is, you know, not not all the technical specifications. And this is why it's the fastest and the best in this way. Like, yeah, that's part of how we can talk about it. But a big part of the focus is really on, you know, how do we? How do we create more sustainable ways for humans to enjoy the planet? You know, the mission is to keep the world adventurous forever. And how do we electrify these, you know, pickup trucks or SUVs or bands or, you know, whatever the whole product lineup is going to look like that facilitates, you know, like, going camping, or driving out into the wilderness to go on a hike, or, you know, just cars that are much more focused on utility, and the kinds of experiences that they could enable you to have. So there's just more focus on what you do with the products and the community and the benefits that come from it. So it's really rich with storytelling. And I think you see that on the inside of the company as well, the way that we relate to each other and communicate and even collaborate, there just feels like there's more focus on the individual and the people and the culture and the team. So that that is the biggest difference right now. I'm also very aware that we're in an early stage of the company's development, and cultures change, cultures evolved, like over my seven years at Tesla, my gosh, it felt like at least five different companies over the course of my time there. So I, I'm aware that rivian will change too. But I think what's different is, I feel like the the leader, the executive leadership team, is much more conscious and focused on building and nurturing the culture and preserving it through the growth and change that the company is about to go through. And so I think that to me, is one of my big takeaways from Tesla's culture starts at the top, you know, our learning and development team could do everything that we could to try and create the healthiest culture that we could build vibrant culture that we could, but if there was a, if there wasn't alignment at the highest levels of the business, then you know, you were going to be swimming upstream. And so that was one of the key things that led me to want to move on to is I was like, well, I want to I want to be in a place where I'm swimming with the current. And I'm not trying to fight a battle by myself that, you know, is not in alignment with the business leaders. And so I think at rivian, because the leaders are so focused on nurturing and preserving the culture that we have here. I feel confident that even when the company grows and changes and evolves, while the culture will grow and evolve and change with it, I know that we'll be really intentional about kind of carving the path for how that culture changes so that it's done. So in a thoughtful, intentional and constructive way,

Andy: 1:30:06

that sounds very encouraging Peter, and there's a lot of things in in, in that piece just going back, I can remember, you know, talking, first of all about how companies grow and develop. And I can remember it used to make me smile, say 2016. When Tesla was still, as far as I was concerned, a relatively young company, but people in the UK would be complaining is getting way too corporate. It's not Yeah, it's not what it used to be, I'm getting mad. It's like, it used to be so much fun. And now, you know, people want you to fill in forms and, you know, actually explain what you're doing. Which must have really been very boring after years of just doing what you want to do. But also, I remember asking Ilan, once you know, what his thoughts on leadership development work, because I came to taser already, I didn't need a purpose if I had a purpose. So I was getting to find it. It was about nurturing people and, and improving performance by growing people. And I was really passionate about it. And I was excited by the Tesla mission. And I thought, How exciting and I was excited by what was happening in the industry. And I thought, No, this would be a really cool place to be. But then I was a little frustrated to not be able to bring my whole self we had that conversation about I was leaving a hell of a lot on the shelf. So my previous role, I'd been travelling around Asia Pacific delivering leadership development programmes, as well as running a market and I was leaving all that on the shelf. And that was probably what I was trying to break through when we met was, I was trying to find ways that I could bring some of that to to to the business as well and failing. But I remember asking Ilan, what he thought about leadership development, he just said, I simply just reflect on what you did today and do it better tomorrow. Well, what about you know any any books or methodologies or ways because I do you read a lot of books, you know, he's always reading up on stuff we eat, learn himself how to build rockets. So what about Yes, or no, it's all a waste of time. He said, always the time, you know, those people who, you know, couldn't do it. So they write books sort of thing. So I was a bit disheartened when that happens to her. But really interesting, but I also think that the culture at Tesla was was probably pretty brutal. Not at not an unfair word to use, but it was also trying to survive and right thing that I felt about it was, it's sick, its future was by no means a short. Can we agree. And that creates a sense of prioritisation, focus, urgency that you get, because you don't know if you're going to be here tomorrow. And I wonder whether because Tesla's kind of battled through? Does rivian does Lou said do these other brands need to have that same, you know, has Tesla burst through a wall now and you know, all their traditional OEMs have finally seen the light and started to although they say they're, you know, leading the way, but, you know, so yeah, but you know, let's not go there. But they're all on board now. So is it are you gonna be able to review it doesn't need to maybe be as brutal and ruthless and, you know, dog eat dog as, as others might think.

Peter Jackson: 1:33:27

Oh, I completely agree. I think all Evie startups from here forward can have an easier path to success. Because Tesla has kicked down that door, it doesn't mean that their success is assured either, right? Like I think we're already seeing a handful of folks kind of flailing or failing to start new businesses go figure starting a new car company is really hard to do. And so I I couldn't agree more. You know, Tesla, often times felt like every single quarter, we were fighting for our life. And that sounds really intense to say, but you're right. Like we didn't know if the company was going to fold one quarter after the next and that really shapes the culture in a really intense way over time. And so I think like you can even just look at rivian reviens raised 10 and a half billion dollars over the last few years since it unveiled its r1 T and r1 s flagship vehicles at the LA Auto Show, and then a half billion dollars, like, I don't know, all of Tesla's financial situation, but I'm pretty sure we weren't being infused with cash in that amount in our earliest stages of development. And so I think that you know, with a smoother start, hopefully that'll be helpful for us. But not even on that end. I'm also talking about like the public at large. People are so much more aware of electric vehicles. And really recognise them as viable alternatives to their gasoline cars today because of Tesla. And I think that that is also going to make the adoption of new electric vehicles by rivian or sitter whoever that much better even some of these other like, you know, big auto companies like the Ford F 150. Lightning. I don't think an F 150. Evie would be as successful today, or sorry, would it be as successful before Tesla, as it will be today as a result of Tesla, making a lot of people believe that he V's can be great and good alternatives. So I think that it in many ways that maybe we don't even fully grasp. I think Tesla, Tesla's truly revolutionise the way that the world thinks about e V's and what they can be. So I think everything coming forward from here will in some way, have a little bit easier have a go at success because Tesla did a lot of the heavy lifting.

Andy: 1:36:08

If it hadn't been for Tesla, I'd argue or an identical something else that did exactly the same thing. The Ford F 150. v wouldn't exist. They no one would have bothered. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So that's how I see it. Give me the mission. Again, I love the mission to keep the world adventuring forever.

Peter Jackson: 1:36:31

Just not the world adventurous, forever adventurous forever.

Andy: 1:36:34

And there's so much in that. I mean, the forever is beautiful. One word that means you know us going out having fun with our lifestyle vehicles isn't at the expense of the planet. Yeah, let's do one thing. Let's do it and be able to do it forever. I love that and, and the adventurous spirit is all about as you said, these are lifestyle because this is focused on

Peter Jackson: 1:36:59

people being able to do the things they they love doing. And it's the difference between save the planet and love the planet. And I for me, the love the planet peace it like it's just an important part of the mission is like explore it, love it, protect it. That's that's part of why you want to go electric, like I love that that's built in into reviens mission.

Andy: 1:37:31

It certainly softer isn't Yeah, and there aren't as many casualties. I think, save the bat. And I can sort of reconcile this that. You know, Ian's got amazing vision that Okay, we're going to save the planet. And in case we don't save the planet, we're going to colonise other planets. So that's our backup plan is will colonise Mars. And if you're doing that, you know there was a you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs that there was a sense that okay, on the one hand, we just have to make this work. And we don't know if we're going to be in business next quarter. So right, yeah, pressure. And also the some people are gonna we're gonna be some casualties. Some people get, but it's okay, we're doing this for humanity, we have about the whole of humanity, not the employees we've got right now. That's, you know, right. That's Yeah, one way I can reconcile some of that. So your that's where you are now at rivia. And we're up to present day. Peter, is there anything else you wanted to share? I don't think so.

Peter Jackson: 1:38:47

I think that's a good taking stock of kind of where, where I've been so far, and obviously made all kinds of mistakes along the way and learned a lot of lessons. And I'm excited to see what the rivian chapter has in store, I think it's going to be very exciting. And as much of a roller coaster is helping kind of build Tesla. And who knows what comes after that. So I guess we'll just have to see,

Andy: 1:39:17

I can think of there must be few people on the planet better place than you to do what you're doing at rivia. And given the unique experience that you've had at Tesla already. It's been an absolute pleasure, Peter to talk with you. I think the fact that we have spoken for so long when you are compared to some of my guests who have 3040 year careers, demonstrates how much I've been interested in the topics that you've been sharing with us. So if people want to get in touch with you, how would you prefer them to do that?

Peter Jackson: 1:39:54

Oh, sure. Yeah. Gosh, thank you so much, Andy. This has been a blast. If You want, you can email me at Peter Thomas jackson@gmail.com. Or you can reach out to me on linkedin.com slash in slash Peter Thomas Jackson, I'd be more than happy to take any questions or comments.

Andy: 1:40:15

Thank you very much. And we'll put those links in our show notes so that people can can find them and access you easily. So, once again, it's been an absolute pleasure and a privilege. I realise We've met before, it's been wonderful to get to know you much, much better over the last couple of hours. So thanks very much, and I look forward to staying connected.

Peter Jackson: 1:40:36

Thank you so much, Andy. Likewise,

Andy: 1:40:43

you've been listening to Career-view Mirror with me, Andy Follows. I hope you enjoyed Peters story and found some helpful points to reflect on my daughter's on actor at the early stage of her career. And so I was intrigued by that side of Peters journey, especially as he grew up near Hollywood. I mean, imagine the opportunity, you might think you'd have at least being in that place, you know, being in that location. But then I was also interested in how he changed direction and he found his voice via an alternative route. I loved hearing about how Peters upbringing in such a nurturing family seemed to have given him resilience, so that any unkindness at school didn't seem to bother him too much, and he still thoroughly enjoyed himself. Having spent time at Tesla, myself, I was curious to discuss the incredible experience of working in a mission driven business, but also the potential for that level of intensity to come. With a dark side, I did feel for his partner Evan being stuck in Hong Kong when Peter was away for 80% of the time. And this can be the reality when you're travelling following a partner, but you're not allowed to work yourself. I enjoyed hearing about the vision of rivian to keep the world adventurous forever, and reflecting on the different world that new Evie manufacturers are entering as a result of Tesla. Managing to break through this episode of Career-view Mirror is brought to you by Aquilae. Aquilae exists to close the gap between actual performance and available performance in the mobility industry internationally. What do we mean by actual performance and available performance? Every individual, every team, every organisation has a level of performance that is available to them right now, and typically a lower level of performance that they're actually experiencing. We call the gap between the two the underperformance gap. Our Aquilae performance model recognises the four fundamental contributors to performance and helps you identify how to get closer to your available performance and close that underperformance gap. We publish these episodes, primarily to celebrate my guests careers, but also to listen to their stories and learn from their experiences. I love doing it. I love having the conversations. I love connecting with my guests. And I love sharing their stories with you. And I love it even more when you tell us what thoughts it brings up for you. So please do keep feeding back to us. If you've got any comments, you can put them on Apple podcasts, or you can go to our Instagram at Career-view Mirror and write a comment on the episode there. If you're an Android person, then pod chaser is where you can also comment. Thanks very much to everyone who's given us feedback so far. Thanks also to Hannah, our produ er. If you want to know who's coming next best thing to do fo low us on Instagram at Care r-view Mirror and we post a co ple of days before the epi ode, a little bit of detail on ho our next guest is going to be. If you're listening to th se and you're enjoying them, nd you think there's other peo le who might benefit from them, erhaps people who are in the i dustry or who would like to jo n some of the companies that my guests come from, then pleas share these stories with th m. And let's get the learning ou there as widely as possible. Thanks very much for lis