April is OT Month - Check out our OT Month Digital Course Sale! harkla.co/otmonth
Sale ends April 30, 2023
Today’s episode is a LIVE call with a 2-1 mentoring client! The family provide us with details ahead of time, scheduled the session, and we jumped right into a brainstorming session!
If you found this episode helpful, let us know!
Make sure to check out all of our links below!
We’d love to answer your questions on the podcast! Fill out this form -> https://harkla.typeform.com/to/ItWxQNP3
Looking for more in-depth help? Sign up for 2-on-1 Mentoring With Us!!
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products & child development courses.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
Links
All Things Sensory Podcast Instagram
Harkla YouTube Channel
Harkla Website - Shop Sensory Products!
Harkla Instagram
April is OT Month - Check out our OT Month Digital Course Sale! harkla.co/otmonth
Sale ends April 30, 2023
Today’s episode is a LIVE call with a 2-1 mentoring client! The family provide us with details ahead of time, scheduled the session, and we jumped right into a brainstorming session!
If you found this episode helpful, let us know!
Make sure to check out all of our links below!
We’d love to answer your questions on the podcast! Fill out this form -> https://harkla.typeform.com/to/ItWxQNP3
Looking for more in-depth help? Sign up for 2-on-1 Mentoring With Us!!
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products & child development courses.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
Links
All Things Sensory Podcast Instagram
Harkla YouTube Channel
Harkla Website - Shop Sensory Products!
Harkla Instagram
The goal is that with a lot of these activities, since you do homeschool, you can incorporate all of these just during their routines during sensory breaks. And, ideally, help all of them simultaneously.
CJ:That is my goal. And yeah, trying to pick those activities and and now I've been able to see, okay, you only need to do it maybe three times, and you need to do it like 20 times. And then I'm still gonna have to pull you away because you don't want to stop.
Rachel:I'm Rachel.
Jessica:And I'm Jessica. And this is All Things Sensory by Harkla.
Rachel:We are both certified occupational therapy assistants and together with Harkla. We are on a mission to empower parents, therapists, and educators to help raise confident and strong children of all abilities.
Jessica:On this podcast, we chat about all things sensory, diving into special needs occupational therapy, parenting, self care, overall health and wellness and so much more.
Rachel:We're here to provide raw, honest and fun strategies, ideas and information for parents, therapists and educators as well as other professionals to implement into daily life.
Jessica:Thank you so much for joining us. We have something really cool to offer you today. It is April and April is OT month. And in celebration of OT month, we're bundling some of our favorite digital products together and giving them to you for a discount. We're gonna call this the OT digital bundle because the digital courses that we've bundled together for April, will just help you become a better therapist.
Rachel:They're not only beneficial for therapists, but because we are celebrating OT month, which is occupational therapy, we are giving our primitive reflex course our sensory diet course as well as our three skills courses, which include gross motor skills, fine motor skills, and visual motor skills. And so you're gonna get all five of those courses, which is a $220 value for only $149, which is basically 50% off.
Jessica:Almost a 50% off discount for five courses. Just kind of a quick rundown if you're not familiar with our digital products. Our primitive reflex course, we teach you how to identify routine primitive reflexes, as well as provide you the specific exercises to help integrate primitive reflexes. So it's great for therapists or parents who are learning more about primitive reflexes. Our sensory diet digital course teaches you how to identify sensory preferences, how to meet the sensory threshold, and how to put different sensory strategies together in order to help your child feel regulated in order to get through their day. So another great one for therapists to help them better understand how to help their clients. And then like Rachel said, our three skills courses, the three skills courses are very activity based. So our fine motor skills course gives you a ton of new therapeutic activities to work on fine motor skills. Same with the gross motor and the visual motor courses. So those three are really awesome. If you are looking for more treatment ideas.
Rachel:You can take advantage of this sale, this bundle, this fabulous discount we are sharing through the end of the month. So if you're listening to this after April, so sorry, you know, but you missed out, maybe next year, I just want you to know that we appreciate you listening to our podcast, we appreciate the consistent support. And you know, so just a little way of saying thank you and go OT.
Jessica:Yes, exactly. The link to take advantage of this bundle is going to be in the show notes but the link is harkla.co/ot month.
Rachel:Again that's Harkla.co/otmonth.
Jessica:Okay, now we can jump into the episode.
Rachel:Okay, enjoy. Hey there, welcome back to another episode. We're so happy that you have taken time out of your busy schedule to listen to Jess and I just pitter patter all day long, for like an hour, but thank you for being here. I'm Rachel.
Jessica:I'm Jessica. Today we are sharing a two on one mentoring session with you. We got to chat with CJ she is the mother of four. She homeschools her children and she has gone through several of our Digital courses, specifically the sensory diet digital course, in order to find strategies to help all of her children. She's crushing it. She has a background in, I think she said child education and music. And we chatted with her for a 45 minute mentoring session, and just thought that there was so much good information in it that we wanted to share it with everyone. And now that's that's what we're going to do.
Rachel:Hopefully, there's a takeaway for everyone. Hopefully, it's enlightening of you know, how these mentoring sessions go. If you're on the fence, if you're considering meeting with us, you know, maybe this will help give you that clarity of like, Yes, this is what I need, or you know what, this isn't what I need. So if it's something you want to pursue, we'll put the link to sign up in our show notes. So you can check that out. But let's get started and listen to our conversation.
CJ:Hello, how are you?
Rachel:Good. How are you? Can you can you see us? We can't see you.
CJ:Oh, no, hold on.
Rachel:Oh, oh, there we go!
CJ:Awesome. All right. Let me close this. Okay.
Jessica:And we are recording this. This conversation, this video chat. So, okay. will actually send you the recording afterwards. So you have it.
CJ:Alright. Sounds good. Awesome.
Rachel:How are you? I'm Rachel.
CJ:CJ? Well, Carolyn is my first name. I go by CJ. So. Yeah.
Jessica:You and I have been emailing back and forth a couple of times. Right?
CJ:Yes. Thank you so much. Very helpful.
Jessica:Well, I saw that you signed up for the mentoring and I thought that it was you so cool. And you're in the sensory diet digital course as well.
CJ:Yes, I finished that.
Jessica:How'd that go?
CJ:Good. It was really, really helpful. And we started implementing things throughout the day and trying different things. And honestly, it it helped me so I sent you my original checklists for everybody sensory, all their sensory needs. And it's helped me kind of fine tune what their, their actual needs are a little bit more. You know, just as an example, you know, Mariah was kind of a tricky one, because she had five and each on two of them, tactile and vestibular. But actually, when we started doing the activities, she's like, Oh, I'm so dizzy. Oh, I don't want to do that. And that she's getting silly and rolling around on the floor. So I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna change yours to over responsive for now. So it's been really helpful to just to see, and without me even prompting them, they've kind of picked up on things and start expressing that, hey, I really want some time in the swing mom, or hey, can I can we can we do the hoppy balls for a little bit? We don't have a trampoline. We use hoppy balls, you know, that like handles and hop everywhere? And, you know, they'll they'll start asking, Hey, I really need some gum. Can I go get some gum? That helps me focus.
Jessica:It's amazing.
Rachel:Oh my gosh, yeah. Well, to see that.
CJ:Definitely. It's encouraging to me. And then I can actually making my job easier. Most of them, I should say, the guy that we're focusing on a little guy that we're focusing on today, I'm just like, Oh, my goodness child. So the other three, are making my job a little easier, because they just they're falling right into all the cues you guys mentioned, and giving me more to put down in my notes and kind of alter things and try different things. So yeah.
Jessica:Well, kudos to you for doing all the work to get them on that path. Because without you doing all those different things, they wouldn't be able to do that, you know, so you're facilitating all of that and helping them create that independence and that confidence, and that's just amazing.
CJ:Thank you. Yeah, I think when I reached out to you at first I just in that spot that you guys mentioned, I'm just I'm so overwhelmed. I'm like, I this is a lot and it's great and I can see great things in our future. I don't know what to do, or what to focus on how to get started. It's just taking that first step and like, just it doesn't have to be perfect. Like you said, that was totally me. You were too I could do was like it just just take a step and then another step and just go with it.
Rachel:Well, we are so happy to hear that. Let's jump into chatting about your littlest.
CJ:Jeremy. Yes.
Jessica:Okay, and he's four. So your top three struggles that looked like potty training, as well as interoception, which those kind of go hand in hand. And then some different activities to help with the auditory and tactile over sensitivities.
CJ:Yes, and especially because the things to work on, those are often kind of my I'm tactile and vestibular over responsive. So what I'm trying to work with them on the tactile stuff and all the options like shaving cream, no, no, no, no, I don't want to touch it. So just trying to figure out like, different things, because, you know, I kind of need to work on some things, too. And this has been helpful for me to see an auditory sorry, I meant auditory, tactile and auditory, over responsive. And so I'm getting overwhelmed, because I, you know, all my triggers are going off, and, but I'm trying to stay in that great space to help them.
Rachel:It's not easy, it really isn't easy. So a few things that I was first thinking of, really, with these sensitivities, we want to try to work from the inside out. So we want to find the root cause the root challenge sounds like there's a lot of history going on. So if we can find out, internally, let's address what's going on. A few of our favorite programs, the listening program by advanced brain technologies, and then the safe and sound protocol. And they're, they're two separate programs. But I honestly feel like they could be really beneficial for the whole family.
CJ:Yeah, I don't I don't want Sorry to interrupt. No, you're fine. It's you guys. And I forgot. So, um, advanced brain technologies. I've had some wonderful chats with Mandy. Yes, and so I now our system shipped out on Tuesday. And I started the provider course on Tuesday, and I'm going to be the family's provider. And then beyond that, we'll see where that takes me. But we're excited. We got the essentials package. So we were going to do the spectrum and in time. And we got the drum. So very excited. My background is in music, undergrad is in piano performance. And my master's is in mental health counseling. So I'm really excited.
Rachel:I was I was gonna say because I remember in your form, you'd mentioned that he was you know, tapping his feet in in be with the rhythm at like eight months old and like in pitch and I was like, that's really observant to notice that but that makes sense.
CJ:Yes, a very musical family. Like Logan, that's his special interests. And so he plays violin, guitar, piano and drums. And we'll see what happens with with Jeremy. Right now I just tactically I can't get his hands to open up or do anything with the piano or the violin. But he has his violin is over under our piano. It's name is cute, baby. So a 1/32 sighs violin. So he's a little bit tactically and auditorily like the violin, really. The higher pitches are kind of bothering him and he is still struggling to kind of curve his fingers and put them down on the, you know, in some of that age, but some of it is is him he just he can't try for very long. We're working on it.
Jessica:I had a couple of thoughts since you have the listening program and you're going to be doing that. That would be a great one to use during those like tactile activities, or any of those activities where he struggles and is overstimulated, you can use the listening program before and during those activities. That'll be helpful. The other thought that I had, since you mentioned his hands, was the palmar grasp reflex. And oftentimes what we'll see as a child with a retained palmar grasp reflex has major big tactile sensitivities, they struggle with fine motor skills, because what it's doing is it's not allowing his hands to work right, that reflex is inhibiting him to be able to control his movements and his reactions with his hands. So, that would be something that I would want you to maybe identify and see if he has that reflex retained, and then some activities to do for that.
CJ:Okay, and I did also do the primitive reflexes course, but I didn't really reach out as much with that one. I put you guys on on YouTube on the TV. And I was like, let's we're all going to work on these together, guys. So actually, yeah, I did write in on my oldest, he was the one not able to do Superman. But that, yeah, that was a few months ago. But he can now at least get his his head up and one leg at a time. So he's making some progress. But I'm Jeremy, when I did the palmer grasp reflex, he can do it. But he's a little shaky, like, you know, but it seems like he he's doing it. It's just, yeah, I don't know. But when it comes time to actually touching, like, he'll play with playdough a little bit, but he doesn't like anything gooey on his hands or water, soap and water, washing his hands. He doesn't like to do that. If he gets wet he thinks he's dirty. He's contaminated. And goes into a fit. And he won't let me near him if if I'm wet.
Rachel:What does bath time look like?
CJ:What is bath time is? Yeah, he likes bath time. As long as he's in control, and we're not washing his hair. He doesn't like to tip his head back. He he just wants to be in the water and play. He doesn't really like the actual bathing.
Jessica:Like get on his hands unless it's like in the bath.
CJ:Yeah, the soap. I don't he just really doesn't seem to like we use, everybody's got so many allergies around here. So I make my own foaming soap with Dr. Bronner's, essential oils and stuff. So he he does like to wash his toys and he likes to wash him but when it comes time to wash hands, I don't know. It's It's very strange. But he the last time the biggest issue is always been washing his hair and face, which is headed back.
Rachel:It sounds like you mentioned something about the Moro reflex. Was that him who you said he couldn't do his starfish?
CJ:Yes, he does... for the starfish... his favorite is the egg. He likes rocking egg. But he can't hold his own head up for very long. And he can't help wobble to the side. So he wants me to rock him. And with the starfish, it's kind of like I sit behind him and I'm manipulating his arms. And then try to help him with his legs, but it's kind of like one arm will go, one arm will go, the head still back, he's crossing his leg, tuck your chin, okay. It's like one piece at a time.
Jessica:It's a hard exercise the starfish is definitely a challenging exercise.
Rachel:Have you ever tried putting a camera up so he can see or taking a video or doing it in front of a mirror?
CJ:Not yet. I've been telling him and that's another thing he doesn't like doing pictures and videos. So I've been kind of telling him and then I want to get a mirror down where we where we do our most of our exercises. Because I think he would do that a little easier. But yeah, I've kind of been talking it up a little bit like hey, I want to take a video of you I actually was going to try to send you guys a video of his egg and starfish finish but didn't happen.
Rachel:What about going backwards. Do is have a therapy ball or like a yoga ball?
CJ:Yes.
Rachel:Could he go backwards over the therapy ball?
CJ:He does, he's kind of like I don't know. You know he he'll let me hold on to him and do it. Because he is kind of a thrill seeker so I think that part appeals to him. Like, oh, I'm on a crazy ride but um but He doesn't really care for it.
Jessica:Yeah, it's that leaning back, same as within the bath tub. So that would be one to do every day, if possible, laying upside down the therapy ball grabbing toys from the floor and sitting up and throwing to a target. Maybe like build a tower with cups or blocks. And when he lays back, he grabs a ball and he sits up and he throws it and tries to knock it down, that can be motivating.
CJ:Oh, he was yeah, he would like that.
Rachel:Another one of our favorites to work on that head tipping back that vestibular input is we like taking a pipe cleaner, and attaching it like to the like the door handle here behind me sitting underneath it, and then taking beads or something that he can manipulate to being his head back, and like doing something with that pipe cleaner putting a bead on, or you know, something that's motivating to him. But he's still like getting that head to tip back. And it's a little bit more functional or even hanging a string in the room. And he has to sit underneath it and tip it, look up to like clip something on with a clothes pin. So he's not necessarily focusing on that vestibular, tipping his head back. He's focused more on like, you know, hanging up the clothes or hanging up the sticker and he's still incorporating that movement during play. Sometimes that can be beneficial to
CJ:Okay, good.
Jessica:We'll send videos of these as well. So you can see them. Yeah, maybe even he could watch them and say yeah, let's try what they're doing in the video.
Rachel:We're also going to send you a document too, with all of our notes and recommendations sent too.
CJ:Good deal. Yes. Okay. I was like, I just want to be able to listen and not worry about this.
Rachel:Yeah, we've got you covered.
Jessica:I had another thought for the starfish. Do you guys have maybe ankle weights or wrist weights?
CJ:We actually just bought some kind of funny. The compressions swing, so we we have that, but we have a drop ceiling. And they're all glued together, so we can't hang it. And so we have a stand and I just want it to be even more secure. So I actually bought them for that. But you know, we can Velcro and use for other things.
Jessica:What you could do is put a weight on his right arm and a weight on his right leg, when he's doing list starfish to help him know which arm and leg to use simultaneously. Just make sure that when you're doing it, you also switch the weights to the left arm and left leg to do it as well so you're getting the weight on both sides during the exercise, if that makes sense.
CJ:Yeah, those that's great.
Jessica:That could be helpful.
CJ:Oh, cool. I'm glad I bought those. I just recently did it because it worries me when they get a little too crazy. The bars start to lift up a little on the stand. And so no, we don't want that. I tried, man, that is that is my thing. If there's a problem, I'm going to try anything to figure it out.
Rachel:Okay, so a few other things that we were thinking. There's a program called astronaut training, which provides visual, auditory and vestibular stimulation simultaneously. And we like to take some of those preparatory activities and turn them into functional tasks to stimulate that vestibular system and you know, desensitize while also providing a lot of that input that maybe he seeks. And so one of them we call over-unders. And so it's taking an object and going up over our head again, with that, taping the head back, passing the ball or grabbing it, and then going down under the legs and passing it so doing that rhythm a couple of times. And another one is twisting side to side. So passing a ball back and forth, giving that rotary vestibular input, and then another one we call from the program, it's called robot zapping. And so you take your fingers and you're reaching across your body and someone is either behind the child, you know, having him touch the same finger in different planes, so up and down and sideways, or you can put stickers on the wall behind him. So if he's standing against the wall here and you have like different stickers up and down the wall and you have you say a touch the Pokemon sticker and you have to like he has to reach and find it and go across his body. It's a great visual vestibular activity as well. And those would be fun to include.
CJ:Awesome. Yeah, that sounds fun. I think other kids, different kids.
Rachel:The goal is that with a lot of these activities, since you do homeschool, you can incorporate all of these just during their routines during sensory breaks. And, ideally, help all of them simultaneously.
CJ:That is my goal. And yeah, trying to pick those activities and now I've been able to see, okay, you only need to do it maybe three times, and you need to do it like 20 times. And then I'm still gonna have to pull you away, because you don't want to stop.
Rachel:Definitely make sure that you are following those vestibular activities with that proprioceptive input or that heavy work. So doing animal walks, doing chair push ups, or wall push ups, deep squeezes, any type of compression or stretching to the joints and muscles will help to kind of organize that input a little bit more.
CJ:Awesome. And I guess that well, with Jeremy, it's always I can't seem to reach his threshold, I just feel like I'm giving, we're doing, doing, doing, going, going going. And he's just still not... I can barely redirect him to the proprioceptive. Like he loves that stuff. But, he just wants to keep going. And then I tried to redirect and we'll go to another activity. But like, I still haven't found his threshold. Like I think I'm working. We've gotten a pretty good handle on the other three. But yeah, he is just the Energizer Bunny.
Rachel:So my first thought is to use a visual schedule, so a sensory diet, and we'll give you some examples will send some follow up examples that you can do, but incorporating a visual will be helpful so he can see. First we're going to do over unders, then we're going to ride on the scooter board, then we're going to swing or whatever it is. So we can see that, then we're going to include those start and stop. So we're going to do 10 medicine ball slams, and then we're going to swing for 10 times back and forth. And we're going to repeat that. So that way he has that intense input, but it has that organized start and stop. That's a really key critical part of meeting the threshold. It is to be completed multiple times during the same, you know, medicine ball, slams, swing and do that, that sequence three times in a row, and then check in and stop. And we can chat about this too a little bit more. But using like an emotional regulation program, like the zones of regulation, that would be really helpful. So we can check in and stop and look and say, okay, I'm still in the yellow zone, I need a little bit more input, or I'm in the green zone now and I feel good. So being able to stop and check in can be really helpful again with that interoception that we'll talk about later as well.
CJ:Good deal. Yeah, the podcast I guess last week, I'm losing track of time, but about the the boy that just kept on going like that, that definitely helped me but you know, having a number of times to do something, and trying to communicate that with him that definitely where I'm at.
Rachel:Yes, those visual schedules are helpful.
Jessica:And I think he's four. So is he learning how to count and understanding how that works. He can even keep track on say, like a piece of paper or a whiteboard. And you can draw maybe some checkboxes and say we're gonna do our, you know, our routine or obstacle course routine four times. So you have four checkboxes, and each time he goes through, he marks it off, so he's even having more control over the situation, to mark it off each time until he gets through four of them.
CJ:Okay, yeah, that's great. He loves the dry erase board.
Rachel:Should we chat about potty training?
CJ:Yes. My fourth child, and I've gotten all this now.
Rachel:You got all this experience, and he's the one giving you a run for the money. So first things first, it sounds like he's struggling to process that interoceptive input. So he's not recognizing when he's wet, when he has to go to the bathroom. If he's recognizing it. It sounds like it's at the last minute, right?
CJ:Yeah, or afterwards and he'll come and whisper to me that that he needs a change.
Rachel:Okay, and he's in diapers. So he's recognized those wet but he's in diapers. Right?
CJ:Right. And well we do try without diapers. He will just hold it. I mean, the he went almost 10 hours holding it. And I finally was like, okay, this is not healthy, I can't do this and put the diaper back on and we had like two full diapers before bedtime. He had been holding it. So yeah, he's a tricky one. Nothing seems to motivate I mean, even Minecraft, he, unfortunately, we didn't start any of the older kids until about six on devices but because, you know, fourth child and he's watching big brothers. His oldest brother's special interest is Minecraft. And so it's part of the family. So nothing, I can say, well, you know, if you just sit on the potty then you can have X minutes on your tablet. Or if you'll sit on the potty, just sit on it. And you'll have a Reese's. No. Like, there's sticker charts. No way. Like nothing? Nothing.
Jessica:Now it's like a routine for him to be like, nope, I don't want to I'm gonna keep that control. I don't want to do that.
CJ:Exactly. And he acts almost terrified when I even suggest I mean, we put his special potty, we've removed it out of the bathroom and put in the room and like I can work your way back to the bathroom. Even I don't care where your party is. Put it in your safe area. I don't whatever. No, they still won't sit on it, won't do anything.
Rachel:So one thing that is helpful for improving interoceptive awareness, toilet training, is to provide intense vestibular input before going to sit on the toilet. So maybe we could swing... he enjoys swinging fast, right?
CJ:Right.
Rachel:Does he enjoy spinning?
CJ:Yes.
Rachel:Okay, so maybe set the timer for one minute swing really hard, really hard. And then we're gonna go sit on the potty potty for 30 seconds. And then we're going to swing again for a minute. I'm curious if that type of incentive would help him or if providing that input before would help him realize that he has to go and then blowing bubbles on the toilet was another thought that I have to help relax those muscles to let him go to the bathroom.
CJ:Okay, like kind of a little bubble mountain that I could hold in front of him?
Rachel:Mountain or even just like a bubble wand. Or a whistle. Like a fun whistle could be fun for him to blow, he could pick out a whistle.
Jessica:And the trick with that is gonna be to make sure that those items are only for when he's sitting on the toilet, right. So sometimes, I've had families in the past who will have like a little box, a little toy box that has special toys or books or like bubbles and whistles that can only be opened when the child is sitting on the toilet, whether they're going or not. They're sitting on the toilet, they get to use those items. Once they're done sitting on the toilet however long it is they put the box the toy box away. So those toys are special for just that specific thing.
CJ:Okay, yeah, that's good.
Jessica:That could be something to try as well. And maybe even if he can choose which items are for that.
Rachel:Take him to the store and have him pick out his potty box. And just make sure to reiterate, these are our toys that we're going to play with on the potty if you're ready to play with them, that's great. Let's go sit on the toilet. You know, how long would you like to sit for? Like any way of giving him control that you can. How long would you like to sit for? What toy would you like to play with? What would you like to do afterwards? Because it sounds like he does want that control. And that's like what Jessica mentioned, that's kind of the last thing that he's holding on to like, I'm gonna hold it, I don't have to go if I don't need to. I've got the control.
Jessica:I liked Rachel's idea of like, including the swinging, the preferred swinging for a certain amount of time and then sitting on the toilet for a certain amount of time and repeating that almost as like a sensory diet obstacle course. That includes what he loves to do and is helpful for his sensory system. And then including a very short amount of time with the nonpreferred which is sitting on the toilet. So we want to keep it like short and sweet. So even like swinging and spinning for maybe just 30 seconds and then he sits on the toilet for 10 seconds while he blows a whistle and then he goes back to the swing something like that, that you would repeat on a daily basis as part of the daily routine, just to get him more comfortable with sitting on the toilet and doing those blowing activities, which can help promote him actually using the toilet.
CJ:Yeah, definitely because and he used to sit on it. And I tried to think back has there been anything negative that happened to, you know, make it less appealing or something that even I wouldn't have considered to be traumatic or so to speak, but maybe he did. And I can't come up with anything. The only thing that, um, I think it was in one of the podcasts, maybe about for some kids, there's a big fear of, you know, the poop coming out, is actually part of his body coming out. We had one conversation one day when he wasn't in tears and was willing to talk to me about it. Usually, if I just bring it up. He's gone. He starts the meltdown already, just to talk about it. But he had, I said, it's no, no, just hold on, buddy. I have a question. Are you afraid of it? And we just talked about do you know what poop is? And he actually did say that part of my body coming out and that scares me.
Rachel:Have you read the book From Chewing to Pooing?
CJ:No, but I do remember you mentioned it.
Rachel:That might be something for him to read. Because it kind of outlines the process.
CJ:I was trying to remember the name of the book. And I had made it back to you know, every every time mommy picks up her phone to do something productive. Mommy, mommy, mommy, I need this.
Rachel:That book might be helpful. I also am curious to if he could sit on the toilet with his diaper on when he has to poop. So that way he's sitting, feeling and then we can slowly maybe work off the diaper. And maybe we can just like he's not sitting on a regular toilet, right? It's like a like a toddler potty. So then maybe we could put the diaper in the toilet. And he could poop on on the diaper. So maybe we can like slowly take really small steps. If he's able to identify he has to poop. We can sit on the toilet, start by just sitting on the toilet with his diaper on, then unstrap it and have it you know, help him hold it on. And then just like put it in the toilet, and then maybe kind of move that sequence that way.
CJ:That makes it's not like when I was saying trying to just get him to sit on it. That's what I meant. Even with his diaper and pants on. I've gone back that far. But yeah, I hadn't thought about. Yeah, trying to get I've been trying to catch him when he's about to poop, you know? Because he will, I think sometimes he knows or what he says is it just starts coming out when I'm running or when I'm playing. And then he'll go to a private area, like behind the chair to finish. So he seems to just, it's catching him off guard maybe trying to catch up when he is about to and to get out. I mean, I would love to be able to do that. Just hard to.
Jessica:Um, yeah. And even like, what if he does go poo in his diaper, having him help with the process of like, taking the diaper off and putting the poo from the diaper into the toilet and flushing it down? To wipe as well?
CJ:Okay.
Jessica:is he afraid of the toilet flushing? Have you noticed any fear around that?
CJ:No, unless we are out like he's comfortable with our toilets, but really loud flushing automatic toilets bother.
Jessica:Yeah I don't blame him, those are loud. Combined with his dislike of even just washing his hands. You know, it can kind of combine with that because it's like, well, we wash our hands after we go to the bathroom. So he doesn't want to go to the bathroom because he doesn't want to wash his hands. So they're very connected there.
Rachel:I wonder if like a like a I don't know if you use this. You said you use essential oils but like I use the on guard like hand sanitizing spray. I'm wondering if like he could use that after he washes his hands at or after he goes to the bathroom. As like a you know, middle ground of finding that balance of Okay, after we go to the bathroom. We're not going to wash our hands. We're going to use this new spray. And Yes, he has a have a grapefruit spray that I keep in my purse and we use it at church and other places. So he's good about that one. Okay, good. So he'll tolerate that. Another thought that I had was vibration. So I'm thinking about like a like a vibrating massager or like the HoMedics vibrating ball. We love those ones. But maybe letting him use that all over his body, maybe letting him try on his tummy.
CJ:Yeah, we have a vibrator. And yeah, I was trying to incorporate that as part of his bedtime routine. Um, and that worked for a little while. But yeah, he does like to put it all over his body. And I have noticed it's kind of funny, but when I let him have it, he does his tummy. But he also does his bottom. Yeah. You know.
Rachel:They're figuring it out.
CJ:So I'm like he'll, he'll put it behind him and on his bottom and on his head. Yeah, he's even tried his head a couple times on my Hey, give that let me turn that down. Because you've got it.
Jessica:If he likes that you can incorporate that into like that routine of like swinging, sitting on the toilet and blowing bubbles and then vibration, or even using the vibration while he's sitting on the toilet.
CJ:Okay. The goal
Rachel:The goal with that is to just increase his overall awareness. And, you know, we want him to be more aware of when he has to go the bathroom and that that vibration is so powerful. It's similar to the vestibular input, it really increases that awareness of what's going on, how do I feel? How do my insides feel? I mean, I'm sure you've used it like on your own arm or whatnot, and your hands like, can you just hold it? And then when you're done, you can just feel your hands like still tingling, right? And you can feel them so much better. And what we don't want him to get in the habit of is to is to hold his bowel movements. And that's when we can see a lot of challenges. And so if we can provide that input, so that way he's feeling okay, this is what's going on, this is what I need to do. Hopefully that would help.
CJ:Yeah, definitely. And Gabriel is the oldest he that was his thing, he would hold his poo as a control until he was four and a half. But we found out that he was having, he doesn't need to have dairy. And so once we got that figured he was holding it because he was afraid because it hurt.
Rachel:Or constipated.
CJ:But at least he was potty trained enough. And the rest of it since about, you know, two and a half years or three. So this is my first time, this intense amount of control for every bit of it. Yeah. So I'm thankful. And I'm hoping to avoid having the problems with too, but at least it's not painful for him. Not that I can tell.
Jessica:Those strategies would be helpful. You said you went through the primitive reflex course? Did you look at Jeremy's spinal galant reflex?
CJ:Yes, as far as it seems to be pretty well integrated now or retain now. Bhe likes it when I'm touching him to give him that feedback of where he is. And what he's doing. Does that if I if I let go of him, sometimes he's a little bit, you know, off of what he needs to be doing. I mean, not on all of like, like, for example, with cat cow. I mean, it's not the same, but like, he'll rock back and forth a little bit for his cat cow. If I'm not, if I'm not touching him to give him that kind of tactile feedback. Yeah, but he can do this Superman. And then sort of with banana, but he usually chooses to do egg instead.
Jessica:Do you guys have any weighted items weighted vest weighted lap pad weighted blanket?
CJ:Just the weighted blanket so far. I'm thinking, I want to get more.
Jessica:Yeah, the weighted vest I was thinking might be something to try with Jeremy. Just because it provides him that feedback. And the weighted compression vest provides not just the weight, but also the compression. So it gives him a lot of feedback that can be calming for his nervous system, but also will help him kind of understand better where he's at.
CJ:Yeah, that's a good day and you know, plus too, you know, I don't require him to do you know, he's not really doing as much school as the other three, but he's often around in the background and I just say that seem to play quietly. So I mean, but just the idea of helping him to settle down or to know that this is a time where we need to be stil, trying to work in in that direction.
Rachel:And definitely making sure that you are trying to meet that threshold before putting the weighted vest on him or before having them sit down and focus. That will be helpful too. Because we don't want to use the weighted items to like, try to just calm them down, we want to make sure that we're meeting that threshold first. And then we're using those tools.
CJ:Yes, definitely. Which is kind of what's been going on this last week, since I've really worked on the sensory guidances. How much do you need? So because I just feel like, you know, the other three are kind of done. And he could go on for hours. That's how I feel. But I think part of that is my kind of control. Because we've got to do this, this and this and this today. And I'm still over here trying to do your 20 times long, you know, you want to spin in the swing 20 times, and you want to do this, and you want to do that. And so yeah, I think that takes us kind of back to trying to get a stop and start and teach him how many of each thing. But still trying to figure out where that threshold is for him is hard.
Rachel:It does take a lot of trial and error. Unfortunately, there's no, you know, 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there, you're gonna be good.
CJ:That'd be nice. But I have actually been doing more with him than the other three in terms of trying to work in his sensory diet. More in during the day, the nighttime when we've got pretty good, I think that's helping. But yeah, just for in between subjects or when he needs to do something. But I think to just knowing his personality and the anxiety and the sameness and routine that he wants. Maybe just knowing the exact number and time and sequence and where things are going to be, you know, we use a school schedule as it is, I can even put that into his column, I have all four of them on the schedule, and they're color coded by their favorite color, and it goes down and tells them in blocks of 20 minutes what we're doing 20/30 depending on what it is, and I could even put some of his blocks in there be it could be his sensory diet.
Jessica:Yeah, that'll help provide him some structure for sure. Hey, we're gonna do this five times.
CJ:And then knowing that it's gonna come back again maybe would help.
Jessica:Yeah, that he gets to do it again after he does.
Rachel:Another thought that I would love to incorporate are obstacle courses. I'm sure you've heard us chat about obstacle courses. But that would never be a good way to do activities for all the kiddos, setting up the activities working on the Praxis and then using that kind of as a sensory diet as well going through it two or three or four times depending on how many how many times they need.
CJ:Yes, um, so far, we've gotten to do that a couple times in the back yard, we have a pretty big backyard and have those like interlocking floor mats. And we put like, okay, when you get to the red mat, you're gonna do this. And the blue mat is this and I'm getting them and we have a swing set. So we can kind of incorporate that with the treehouse and slide and the swings. And so yeah, that it's we've had pretty good success with that the oldest is kind of an avoider and doesn't want to do any of the things. And when he gets to the mat, he kind of half does them. And so that's it. I could have done one of these two things for each of the four kids, but I was like, I'm just gonna pick Jeremy, but he's another interesting one. But he's also almost 12 and heading into a lovely teenage.
Jessica:He's the perfect age where maybe he could start building the obstacle courses and putting in the things he wants.
CJ:Yeah, um, he would even like it if I somehow like let that be part of he likes to come up with Minecraft scenarios and games outside or create the game that everybody's gonna play. So he might enjoy helping me set that up. And then he could decide what's each activity really is in his Minecraft imaginary scenario.
Jessica:Okay, today, it's your turn to build the obstacle course for everyone. Tomorrow, it's your turn to build the obstacle course for everyone. So then they each get a turn, and they all participate in each other's obstacle courses.
CJ:Yeah, that's a good idea.
Rachel:From our sensory diet course that you took, we have the sensory sticks, that would actually be a great way to use that to set up an obstacle course. Have them pick five sticks, and then set the activities up. That way, it's not so vast, it's a little bit more structured. And that way, you're making sure that they are getting that sensory input. That's really helpful for them, too.
CJ:Definitely, out of all the ideas you gave that one was kind of my favorite. So I want to incorporate this. Yeah, we've got a patio with a bench for around most of it. And like just hitting the sticks there. And they can draw out the ones that we're going to do and it'll be fun. Or inside too for rainy days. That's why I got the hoppy balls.
Jessica:Those are so fun. I love those.
CJ:They had a trampoline but that broke. The net got a hole in it, and scared me to death. So we took a break from trampolines. But these are working.
Jessica:Awesome. Well, is there anything else you can think of? Um, we're gonna send you all of our recommendations, like Rachel said. But if you have anything else?
CJ:Um, I don't think so. This, that's been really helpful, I think just trying to
Jessica:Not yet anyways. figure out yeah, just how to help him with the interoceptive struggles and how to help them be more aware is there any other things that I can do to help teach him you know, even with hot and cold, you know, still trying to get he's getting confused with that, and then just not understanding what's happening in his body. And emotionally, you know, that one I feel more like I can work with but how to teach these body awareness things. That's so mind blowing. I think the zones of regulation would be a good one, because that helps teach the emotional piece combined with different acts sensory activities. And that will really help him understand how his body feels in certain situations. And then the hot and cold one, I was thinking maybe during bath time, like what maybe he is helping fill up the bath, and he can control the temperature and he has to feel like oh, that's, that's too hot, I need to add more cold or Oh, that's too cold, I need to add more hearts. That could be okay, too. I mean, however, often he's taking a bath, maybe almost daily, he could be practicing that identifying if it's too hot or cold.
CJ:Okay, so it's really, you know, just drawing attention to it for him or with him. And then just repeating that more frequently.
Jessica:Yeah, yeah, and a combination of all the different things.
Rachel:Even like sensory bins with, you know, doing like a stem activity and putting warm water in like a little bin and then grabbing ice cubes and then putting them in and noticing what happens when the warm water touches the ice. And, you know, just play activities that incorporate warm and cold textures, having them put his feet in the water having an you know, maybe you have one bucket with warm water, one bucket with cold water and you have one foot in each different bucket, you have one hand in each bucket, and then you switch and really just working on, you know, multi-sensory processing, incorporating music during that activity, incorporating maybe a metronome activity, so he's clapping while his feet are in the two different buckets of water. And he's saying hot, cold, cold, hot, and just anything to just bring that awareness can be really helpful. It sounds almost too simple. You know?
CJ:Yeah, it does, but, but I think I've really started to kind of understand how to put different things together and just doing that makes such a difference.
Rachel:You can also do like some tactile stimulation. You can use either your breath or you can use like your hands. You could use a brush or a washcloth and just like, rub all over his body, let him rub all over his body, use your hands just try to provide a lot of tactile stimulation to his entire body could be helpful as well.
CJ:Awesome. Yeah, definitely. He loves that stuff.
Jessica:So some good ideas, you're done some awesome things
Rachel:We are very impressed.
CJ:Thank you. Yeah, I'm just trying to help meet everybody's needs. I mean, I love the fact that we homeschool so that I can, you know, it's each of the kids would be in a completely different spot if it wasn't for, you know, if they were in public school and trying to navigate all this. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. It's so helpful.
Rachel:We'll be in touch and we'll send over everything within the next couple of days. Okay?
CJ:Awesome. Thanks so much. Good to talk to you guys and meet you. We'll see you later
Jessica:Like Rachel said in the beginning, if a two on one mentoring session with us is something that you think you would find beneficial, we will put the link in the show notes. So you can sign up for that. We just really love these conversations because we get to brainstorm and come up with hopefully new ideas that will help whoever we're talking to. And we mainly do these with parents, but we can also do them with therapists or teachers or anyone who works with children.
Rachel:Yeah, there's really not much left for me to say, Jess you really just hit the ball out of the park. So yeah, I like I said, I just love these. I love these mentoring sessions. I just feel so inspired after them and during them and just just being able to provide just a few extra strategies. So we're glad that you all listened. And hopefully you enjoyed.
Jessica:If you found this episode helpful, make sure to leave a review on iTunes or Spotify. Send this episode to someone else who you think might benefit. And with that we're out here.
Rachel:Okay, bye. Thank you so much for listening to all things sensory by Harkla.
Jessica:If you want more information on anything mentioned in the show, head over to harkla.co/podcast to get the show notes.
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Jessica:We are so excited to work together to help create competent kids all over the world. While we make every effort to share correct information, we're still learning.
Rachel:We will double check all of our facts but realize that medicine is a constantly changing science and art.
Jessica:One doctor or therapist may have a different way of doing things from another.
Rachel:We are simply presenting our views and opinions on how to address common sensory challenges health related difficulties, and what we have found to be beneficial that will be as evidence based as possible.
Jessica:By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or your child.
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Jessica:This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast. Thanks so much for listening