#258 - Functional Neurology for Kids with Dr. Conner Bor

Dr. Conner Bor was born and raised in Voorhees, New Jersey. He completed his undergraduate degree in Health & Exercise Science at The College of New Jersey and went on to earn his Doctorate of Chiropractic at Palmer College of Chiropractic. While at Palmer, Dr. Bor received many academic honors and was awarded the prestigious Clinical Excellence award upon graduation. 

Growing up, Dr. Bor’s passion for helping others was fueled by having two uncles who are chiropractors. While competing in both high school and college athletics, Dr. Bor relied heavily on chiropractic care to recover from injuries and maintain peak condition. Dr. Bor found his calling early on and earned his undergraduate degree early so he could begin his journey as a chiropractor. 

Early on in chiropractic school, Dr. Bor discovered his passion for neurology and began his post-graduate training while still in school. Dr. Bor completed over 500 hours in training the field of Functional Neurology and was the President of the Functional Neurology club while in school. He went on to receive a Diplomate in Chiropractic Neurology through the American Chiropractic Neurology Board. Dr. Bor is also fellowship trained in the management of childhood developmental disorders through the International Association of Functional Neurology. In an effort to provide this information to as many as possible, Dr. Bor developed a comprehensive online course that teaches both parents and other healthcare practitioners how to apply the concepts of neuroplasticity and nutrition. This course has helped children with developmental delays from around the world maximize their neurologic potential and reach their goals.

https://www.thriveneurodevelopment.com/

https://neuroactivecenter.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.connerbor/

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Transcript

Dr Conner Bor: 0:00

But the simple way to describe what we do is we're trying to find weak areas of the brain and the nervous system, and figure out strategies that help make those areas of the brain stronger. So that ties in all of the sensory modalities, all the primitive reflexes, but then also dives into things like diet, supplementation, lifestyle, exercise, so it's figuring out different strategies to help make the brain function at a higher level. And the better a brain is functioning, the better environment the brains in, the better that it's going to perform. So it's more of a paradigm to addressing neurologic health.

Jessica Hill: 0:44

I'm Rachel and I'm Jessica. And this is All Things Sensory by Harkla.

Rachel Harrington: 0:48

We are both certified occupational therapy assistants and together with Harkla, we are on a mission to empower parents, therapists and educators to help raise confident and strong children of all abilities.

Jessica Hill: 1:00

On this podcast, we chat about all things sensory, diving into special needs, occupational therapy, parenting, self care, overall health and wellness and so much more.

Rachel Harrington: 1:10

We're here to provide raw, honest and fun strategies, ideas and information for parents, therapists and educators, as well as other professionals to implement into daily life.

Jessica Hill: 1:21

Thank you so much for joining us.

Rachel Harrington: 1:28

Hey, everyone, welcome back to All Things Sensory, we're so happy to have you today. We have an exciting interview with a professional that we found on Instagram. Dr. Conner Bor was born and raised in New Jersey and he completed his undergraduate degree in Health and Science in the College of New Jersey, and went on to earn his doctorate of chiropractic at Palmer College of Chiropractic. Early on in chiropractic school, Dr. Bor discovered his passion for neurology and began his postgraduate training while still in school. He completed over 500 hours in the training of the field of functional neurology and was the president of the functional neurology club while in school. He had so many helpful pieces of information and shared a lot of functional tools that he uses with his clients. All kiddos with different abilities, mostly kiddos with different abilities. And so we're excited to share this interview with you. So let's go ahead and get started and meet Dr. Conner. So Dr. Conner, we are so excited to have you here with us today. How are you?

Dr Conner Bor: 2:34

I am doing phenomenal. How are you guys? I'm super excited. I've been waiting for this for what a? Probably a month and a half, two months. I saw it on my calendar the start of this week. I'm like, awesome. Let's do this.

Jessica Hill: 2:50

We start all of our interviews with five secret questions. So we're gonna do that really quick.

Dr Conner Bor: 2:56

Okay, let's do it.

Jessica Hill: 2:58

The first question, do you think that a hot dog is a sandwich?

Dr Conner Bor: 3:03

By definition? Yes, because it's a meat between two pieces of bread.

Rachel Harrington: 3:09

Okay, are you going with the definition? So you're like, Yep, it is.

Dr Conner Bor: 3:15

I think it's semantics. But yes, I'll say hotdog is a sandwich.

Rachel Harrington: 3:22

We get deep here? Okay. What is your favorite beverage?

Dr Conner Bor: 3:28

You guys gonna hate me for this one. But the water was the lamest answer of all time, but I don't drink soda.

Rachel Harrington: 3:38

Do you drink alcohol at all?

Dr Conner Bor: 3:41

If we want to talk alcohol, I would probably say let's go with Coors Light. Like a nice Coors Light. Actually, Kona Big Wave.

Rachel Harrington: 3:57

That's Those are good. Yeah,

Unknown: 3:59

They don't have a much here in Arizona. But in Florida, they were all over the place. So let's change my answer. Kona Big Waves.

Rachel Harrington: 4:06

Have you had the Cali creamin beers?

Dr Conner Bor: 4:09

I haven't.

Rachel Harrington: 4:10

Okay, those are good too. They're just like kind of vanilla. It's like a vanilla beer. It's really good.

Dr Conner Bor: 4:19

Okay. No, I haven't heard of it.

Jessica Hill: 4:26

Okay, next question. Would you rather always be too hot or always be too cold?

Dr Conner Bor: 4:32

So originally, I'm from New Jersey, where it's pretty cold. Then I moved out to Florida for three four years. Then I moved out here to Arizona so it's a pretty easy answer with that one. I'd rather be too hot than too cold.

Rachel Harrington: 4:50

Okay. What is your love language?

Dr Conner Bor: 4:55

Wow, we're really getting into this. I would say what is physical touch, gift giving... I don't even know they are. Being being nice to me. That's what I like. Nice. time is caring and a mutual giving.

Jessica Hill: 5:23

Okay. All right, there you go. Last one. Let's move forward. What's your sensory quirk?

Dr Conner Bor: 5:32

My sensory quirk? I'm actually doing it right now. I always put all things in my hands. I'm a fidgeter. You guys are exposing me on here, too.

Rachel Harrington: 5:46

I know we always say now that everyone knows your deepest, darkest secrets. Tell us what you do, why you do it, all those things.

Dr Conner Bor: 5:54

Yeah, so my name is Dr. Conner Bor. I'm a board certified chiropractic neurologists here in hot Phoenix, Arizona. Growing up, I've always known I wanted to go down the chiropractic route. My two uncles that are chiropractors, and they're both phenomenal at what they do and I played all high school athletics, college athletics, and they and they kept me in shape throughout. Yeah, so I actually graduated undergrad a little bit early and started up chiropractic school when I was 23. Yeah, I think 23. So I started a little bit early, I always thought I wanted to go down that route. I've always worked with kids. So all throughout college all throughout high school I've always helped with after school activities, and I've gone on a couple of mission trips, worked with kids. So early on in my chiropractic journey, I got exposed to some pretty cool stuff, especially in the developmental realm. And it fit within the chiropractic paradigm of finding the root cause and not just going after the symptoms, but figuring out more from a foundational standpoint, what's going on. So early on, I got into this whole world of functional neurology after listening to some speakers and I actually finished up my postgrad while I was still in chiropractic school, and soon after graduating chiropractic school, I was able to sit for my for my neuro board and moved out here to Phoenix and worked with a another world renowned person in the functional neurology field. And his name is Dr. Trevor Berry. And I learned a whole lot from him. He's a he's a pretty well known name, especially in the in the laserworld, Functional Neurology world, and I was his associate for a year and a half and opened up my own place in September 2021. And, yeah, here we are.

Jessica Hill: 7:56

Awesome. So what is functional neurology?

Dr Conner Bor: 8:00

Yes, so it's a great question, because if you Google it, you'll find a little handful of different definitions. And I get messages on Instagram all the time with how do I become a functional neurologist, and it is a little bit confusing. I'll be the first to say it, where there's not a technical school to become a functional neurologist. There's trainings that go into it. But Functional Neurology born itself, it's a paradigm. So a lot of chiropractors do practice Functional Neurology just because it works pretty pretty synergistically with our paradigm of again, finding the root cause, fixing from a foundational standpoint, but there are a handful of occupational therapists, speech therapists, physical therapists out there who technically practice functional neurology. Now, in the last couple of years here, the term Functional Neurology has been getting thrown out a lot more where somebody takes a weekend class and calls himself a functional neurologist. And that is a little bit scary. So it is important to get the proper certifications, the proper credentials, like in our world, we had the 350 hours that go into it. And then you have a board exam after to be a chiropractic/functional neurologist. So we're protected by a board and everything. And I always tell people, if you're going to find a functional neurologist, make sure you're going to somebody that has the proper training behind it. But the simple way to describe what we do is we're trying to find weak areas of the brain and the nervous system, and figure out strategies that help make those areas of the brain stronger. So that ties in all of the sensory modalities, all the primitive reflexes, but then also dives into things like diet, supplementation, lifestyle, exercise, so it's figuring out different strategies to help make the brain function at a higher level and the better brain is functioning, the better environment the brains in the better that it's going to perform. So it's more of a paradigm to addressing neurologic health. And we're a little bit different in the comparisons like a medical neurologists were there, more so looking at the black and whites of the nervous system, where they want to make sure there's no tumor, there's no stroke happening. There's no demyelinating disease, whatever it may be. But they're not looking at the actual "function of the nervous system". So we're trained in the same neurologic examinations. And we're able to spot if there is something serious going on. And that's when we make our referrals to medical neurologist. But there's plenty of times where someone can have a normal neurologic exam, they have a normal MRI, but they have a whole slew of neurologic issues going on. And that's where we fit in where we're looking at the brain in much more color, if you would, by the functionalities of all the different areas. So what we may call positive, maybe not that significant to other people in the medical world, but we're looking at the little nuances in the actual function, whether it be the cerebellum, the parietal, lobe, brainstem, whatever it may be.

Jessica Hill: 11:24

So do you do brain imaging or brain scans when you're working with clients.

Dr Conner Bor: 11:30

So at our old office, and I'm actually moving offices here in a week or so, I was looking at getting QEEG within there. And that gives us more of an objective way of looking at the brain. Unfortunately, with a lot of the kids, excuse me that we work with, it is challenging to get a proper QEEG on a lot of kids, especially with some of the younger kids that we work with. Because a lot of the normative data start at around five, six years old, and we work with some kids older, but a lot of kids younger as well, where you're still able to do it. But it's hard. And if you're working with an autistic child, it may be very hard to get a proper reading without all the artifacts. So we're still figuring out the best path to go down with that. But we rely more so on our subjective history and our neurologic exam. Because at the end of the day, a lot of children that we work with, are going to have a completely clean MRI, completely clean EEG. That's why we kind of like to QEEG because it's a little bit more functional in nature. But I'd much rather get my findings from a physical and a history compared to imaging. And all of the little things. I guess for examples with this, if somebody has certain sensory cravings, we know that's probably gonna be related up to things like the parietal lobe, if people are clumsy, that could be related to the parietal lobe as well. If somebody has poor handwriting that could be related to some reflexes or the cerebellum. So imaging is good, but we rely on other things to dive a little bit deeper into it.

Rachel Harrington: 13:09

Yeah, I feel like that's so true. You know, they have a normal brain scan, but like, functionally, they're struggling. And I think that's, that's what we always try to find to like, how is this impacting their ability to get through their daily activities? And by doing a in person test and getting their history that tells you almost more than trying to get an actual scan?

Dr Conner Bor: 13:30

Yep, absolutely.

Rachel Harrington: 13:32

So who can benefit from seeing a functional neurologist? Like, what type of clients do you see?

Dr Conner Bor: 13:38

So that that could go? I'll answer that in two different ways. So first of people that could benefit from it, I would say just about anybody in theory can benefit from it. There are some people that I've worked with in the past and at the old office I worked at that were people that are completely quote unquote, normal, they have no nothing really going on. But they're very high level people like high CEOs, high athletes that want to get themselves to the next level. And doing this kind of brain work helps them get even if it's 1% better back in, get them to say if it's a professional athlete, 1% better is signing your next contract, it's hitting five more home run, or whatever it may be. But more commonly, we work with people with dizziness, concussion, migraines, dysautonomia that's been very very prevalent after the whole, everything that's going on with COVID. That's kind of like the long COVID. Here at my practice, I almost exclusively work with children, I would say 50% have a diagnosis of autism, then I would say At 40% have some sort of brain injury, cerebral palsy associated with it. And then 10% Different rare genetic disorders. And then usually we have like one or two adults that we take on at a time. But we're primarily working with kids. And again, with our with what we do, our whole goal that I tell I tell parents is, of course, we're trying to work with symptoms, but what my job is take a step back, and let's figure out strategies to make the nervous system stronger. And we know that there's a lot of things that we can do with, I guess we'll just stick with kids here. There's a lot of things we could do from a sensory motor integration standpoint, with all the great work that OT, PT, all you guys do. There's a lot of great work we could do with diet and nutrition, there's a lot of great work that we could do with all the modalities that we have. And at the end of the day, the cases that we work with are pretty complex cases. So it is a synergistic effort of coming from multiple different approaches. And the more that we're able to collaborate with other people and work hand in hand with other professionals, like occupational therapists who we work with just about every single one of our patients, were able to see some of our really good outcomes when we all come together as a team, because at the end of the day, what we work with is hard and everyone has what they're good at, and you can't know everything. So the more pieces of the puzzle you're able to put together, the more favorable outcomes you're able to give.

Jessica Hill: 16:35

Before we talk about all the technology you have and different modalities use. I'm curious about what kind of your sessions with your clients look like? And how many times per week do you see clients? And do you provide certain things for the families to do at home for carryover?

Dr Conner Bor: 16:54

Yes, so we usually start out with 12 visits, again, I'm going to kind of generalize here with something called neuroplasticity, 12 visits gives us some time to be able to start making change, some kids knock it out of the park within 12 visits, typically we start with twice a week for the six weeks for those 12 visits. And my goal for that initial go at it is to make change for the better is to get the ball rolling in the right direction. I do that because there's a lot of audibles that have to happen with someone's whole care plan. And we figure out what the next best plan of action is after those 12 visits without committing someone to a year of care. Because at the end of the day, I mean, I help a lot of people, I don't help every single person I see. And that's just the reality of the situation. And I always tell parents, if somebody's guaranteeing results, you run for the hills, because at the end of the day, you can't guarantee anything. Someone could have a very good track record. But yeah, you can't you can't guarantee everything. So those 12 visits gives us enough time to make sure that we're the right fit for the child and the child and the parents to feel confident in what we're doing. So at the conclusion of 12 visits, we either continue going with care, we either go back and change from say twice a week to once a week. Or we say okay, you're gonna come in, we're going to continue with all the dietary stuff, we're going to see you once a month, whatever it may be, and everyone's a little bit different. Or we figure out if someone's not responding as favorably we go and reassess and kind of figure out what the next best plan of action would be. Whether it's changing everything we're doing with us or finding another professional, that's, that's better suited. But yeah, throughout throughout those 12 sessions, we, we start out with modulating some of the basics of diet, we work through some of the basics of supplementation, we run all sorts of labs, but a lot of times we know a lot of patterns that we see with kids. So a lot of times we don't start by ordering 1000s of dollars of labs until it's necessary. And that's later down the road. But yeah, and then we do some of our primitive reflex exercises, all that fun stuff. And then you can't forget about decreasing video game time, getting your kid outside and go into play. Don't eat McDonald's for every meal. Sometimes the basics are the are the most important.

Rachel Harrington: 19:37

So share with our listeners, modalities that you use in your practice.

Dr Conner Bor: 19:42

Yeah, so we have a lot of fun toys here. I guess the biggest one that people see from social media is the laser. And I always tell people, if there's one thing I wouldn't want to practice without, besides my hands hands down, it's the laser. And again, I always have to preface this when I, when I do things like this, with all laser isn't created the same. So just because you see me using laser in my videos doesn't mean that go to your chiropractor or physical therapist down the road and start shining that laser at your kid's head because that is far from what you should do. So there's certain frequencies or certain powers behind lasers and we use a laser that has all of the research behind it. It's the"cold laser", so it doesn't produce any heat. A lot of the big lasers, they're like, go up from 15 to 25 watts. And they're they're more like a thermal based reaction where ours produces no heat. So we're able to have over certain parts of the head, and know that we're creating more of that chemical reaction without having that without heating tissue up, because especially, we don't want to do that over the head, especially over a kid's head. And then the other side of it is more of like the LED panels that you see on Amazon. And those are a little bit different in the fact that it's not like a true laser. So I use a laser called... that's the brand. So they have 21 FDA clearances, and it all of their research they use LED as their placebo, such as kind of shows the differences between the efficacy of something you get on Amazon versus a super high powered laser versus a laser that fits all the primers that you want to use over over somebody's head. But yeah, the simple way to explain how laser works is our cells have certain receptors on there that take in certain wavelengths of light, the same way that plants grow from sunlight. through photosynthesis, our cells are able to able to produce energy from certain wavelengths of light. So the most basic way to explain it is if we shine a laser over a certain area of the brain, it gives that area of the brain more energy to do what it has to do. So the better that the cerebellum is working, the more motor coordination there's going to be. So if I do cerebellar based exercises and have the laser right over the cerebellum, we know that that's going to become that much more efficient of a therapy. And even having the laser over in itself is a good therapy, because you're giving more energy, you're giving more ATP to that area of the nervous system that needs to just function at a little bit higher level. It also has huge properties with inflammation with blood flow, with it almost works as an antioxidant, where I always tell people, if there is a supplement that could do everything that a laser would do, every single person would be taking it. And that's something that we incorporate with just about every single patient that we see, because what we're trying to do is make the brain stronger. So if we stack the laser on top of that, that just expedites the whole process. And we're able to use it over certain parts of like the neck for vagal nerve stimulation, which is that like, rest and digest part of your nervous system, we're able to use it over the stomach. A lot of kids have chronic GI issues that helps a lot with that. And one thing we forget about in our offerings, we're not doing it that much. But it works great over muscle, whether it be pain, whether it be nerve issue with your trigeminal neuralgia, it all works just phenomenally with that. So it's a very powerful, but also a very versatile tool too. So that's one of the mainstays within our clinic that we have. It's almost like an episode of Star Wars here, just lasers being shot all over the

Jessica Hill: 23:44

I have a question about the laser the, too. Is it place. similar to red light therapy, we see those red light panels...

Dr Conner Bor: 23:53

That's what I was talking about was like the LED. So when we have our laser, I don't have one here. But it's a coherent beam almost. So if I shine my laser at the wall, you would just see two lines going up and down. So that, without going into too much detail, the more condensed the line is, it's a different wavelength into the body compared to the scatter that had was led where if you put up one of those red light pounds in a room, it will light the whole entire room up. So it's just a little bit different with the properties behind it. And there's definitely benefit to red light therapy, but it's just you can't really put true laser therapy with the red light panels. They're both red lights, but the properties of how they work and the efficacy of how they work are just going to be a little bit different.

Rachel Harrington: 24:45

Okay, I have a follow up question. Have you used the laser on yourself?

Dr Conner Bor: 24:50

I use it three days a week, the past four years.

Rachel Harrington: 24:53

How does it feel? What do you notice?

Dr Conner Bor: 24:56

So with the laser that we have, again this is a non thermal, you don't you don't feel anything

Rachel Harrington: 25:01

like what what do you notice like because you were talking about putting it over the cerebellum, and then the motor coordination improved.

Dr Conner Bor: 25:08

So for me, so for me, I so we have a bunch of our handheld lasers that we do in conjunction with the therapies that we use. But we also have a big, it looks like a robot where you kind of just lay under. So that's what, that's what I use. So during my lunches, I'll go and I'll just lay underneath there. And for me, I always feel a lot more mental clarity. If I ever have like a headache, if I ever have any brain fog, I'll go under there, and I'll feel great. But there's actually a lot of research as well around the neuro protective properties behind laser. So essentially, I'm using it to keep my brain as healthy as possible. Even if I don't feel like a new person every time I stand up from it, I know the immense benefits that is having on my brain for for future. And that doesn't even dive into the older population where it ties into things with their fibrillary tangles and Alzheimer's and helps break down some of those non beneficial things that happens to the brain. So yeah, I mean, I'm gonna laser my head the rest of my life. You know, I might, right like, and who knows, I'm just testing out to see when I get superpowers. When I start flying, I'll put a case study out there and this amount of time before you start flying. Yeah, but now there's just so many neuroprotective properties behind it, where if you know all of the research behind it, you're almost ignorant to not use it.

Rachel Harrington: 26:50

That's a little bit about primitive reflexes and using laser therapy.

Dr Conner Bor: 26:57

Yes, so when we're doing a lot of our primitive reflex integration work, we do a lot of something called co-activations. So essentially, what that means is we have the laser over the area of the brain or nervous system that we're working on. So we know that a lot of the reflexes live in the brainstem. There's some connection with the postural reflexes and the top down inhibition of them. But we know a lot of them are living in different areas of the brainstem. So for example, if we're working on the Moro reflex, we know that that was in the mesencephalon. So what we're able to do is we're able to put a laser over that part of the brainstem prior to doing the reflex exercises. So the more energy that part of the brainstem has, the better it could then integrate that reflex. So if we're working on, I don't know, the ATN, or again, we'll have the laser over the cerebellum, the brainstem, as we're doing all of our head turning as we're doing all of our all of our movements. So it works in tandem well.

Rachel Harrington: 28:07

Have you read the symphony of reflexes?

Dr Conner Bor: 28:11

No

Rachel Harrington: 28:13

Because I think that in that book, she talks about, like, quantum laser therapy.

Dr Conner Bor: 28:19

Yeah, so QRI. So that's another form that's, that's led based, again, LEDs still has healing properties. But I know that there's a lot of people doing cranial nerve work, I guess they call it, where they have the the laser right over the brainstem while they're testing different cranial nerves. And I don't personally do that. But I know people that are doing really well with it and have gotten good results from it. And at the end of the day, if someone gets good results with something, I'm not going to knock it as long as it's safe, and it's not doing any harm.

Rachel Harrington: 28:52

We'd heard of laser therapy for primitive reflexes. Some people do that. And it's just not we've just never been trained in that before. So it's just, you're someone who's having success with it.

Dr Conner Bor: 29:02

Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of big pushes in the laser world. So the laser that we use, they completed a whole clinical trial passed all the IRB's, right now is in the works of getting an FDA approval for transcranial use. And this study was done on autistic children. And it absolutely knocked it out of the park. So the initial trial was eight weeks, and they ran the aberrant behavior checklist and they saw improvements across the board. They did a six month follow up and a year follow up and it did really, really well. So that is in the works. And once that gets full FDA clearance, it'll be the first transcranial clearance by the FDA for a laser so it takes a while it's probably been close to two years already and it's just moving through the process but once that gets cleared it's going to, in my opinion, change the way health care really is used and integrating that and more of the mains, in more of like the traditional therapies, whether it be physical therapy, or even a pediatrician, you know. So that's the ultimate goal with that is getting the research done, proving the efficacy, proving the safety and at the end of the day proving the results. And that's why I hang my hat with our konia because they're the only laser company doing that. And that's the only way the field is going to continue progressing. Yeah. I love that. I

Rachel Harrington: 30:31

love that. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so we talk about primitive reflexes a lot. We're very passionate about primitive reflexes. So tell us a little bit more about how you work on primitive reflexes with your clients, kind of what your treatments look like with your kiddos.

Dr Conner Bor: 30:46

Yes, so primitive reflexes is a piece of the puzzle for us. We're doing a lot of things on top of primitive reflexes, but we do preventive reflexes just because we know how important they are and how big of a role they play. But yeah, so we'll start our sessions, we do a lot of something called vagal. Nerve Stimulation, which activates the brainstem kind of calms the nervous system down. And we get into a lot of our sensory motor therapies that are targeted to different parts of the brain. So say we're trying to work on the right brain, we could do things like vibration on the left side of the body, or smell on the right nostril, sound in the left ear, whatever it may be. But from our sensory standpoint, we're always figuring what the central consequence of that therapy is going to be. And I think that's another reason we're a little bit different. Because we're always, or in my head always thinking, how does this exercise affect the brain? Yeah, and then we do a lot of our primitive reflex work. A lot of what we do, I don't want to call it the basics, but we're doing a lot of the core reflex integration exercises, whether it be lizard, snow angels, cannon balls, starfishes, all of the mainstays. They work, though. I always see all these reflex courses pop up, and they look really cool. And there's a lot of ways to do things. But if it's not broke, don't fix it. And we have good success doing it with the way that we do it. So yeah, we're doing a lot of those exercises. But a lot of the work that we're doing also is tying into the prefrontal activation. And one thing that we know is, the better the top down regulation is the more reflexes are going to get inhibited as well. And that's why you see a 75 year old with Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, you see the reflexes come out, who knows, maybe they have a developmental delay, but it's more so the brain not being able to turn off the reflexes. So a lot of the work that we're doing just from the brain based applications, is indirectly having an effect on integrating the reflexes as well, because, man, if we have somebody whose prefrontal activation is super poor, super impulsive, super irritable, a lot of emotional dysregulation, we know that we're going to have to work on the brain as well to work on those reflexes, because ultimately, that way, front part of the brain is going to have a big roll on pressing the turn, turning him off, essentially. So he's working from the bottom up of all of our reflex exercises, but also the top down of turning everything off.

Jessica Hill: 33:31

Where, where did you get your training in primitive reflex integration?

Dr Conner Bor: 33:35

So a lot of it came from Dr. Robert Melillo. Yeah, so he's kind of the founder, I guess you could say what we do. Um, so he's a functional neurologist. I have hundreds of hours trainings under his paradigm. And so I learned a lot from him. There is also another occupational therapist, Sonia Story. Yeah, so I've done some of her stuff. And she has a lot of really good work with rhythmic movement and reflexes. So yeah, I would say from a from a reflex standpoint, I would say it's a combination of Dr. Moelleux and Sonia and some of her stuff.

Jessica Hill: 34:17

Yeah, we had her on the podcast a long time ago.

Dr Conner Bor: 34:21

Okay. Yeah. I took whatever courses and man it was awesome. It was great.

Rachel Harrington: 34:29

Cool. Tell us some of the like success stories and things that you're you're seeing with them too.

Dr Conner Bor: 34:36

Yeah. So autism, the more you learn about autism, the more complex you learn that it is. And there's a lot of foundational things that you can do to help, but again, the more you learn about it, the more individualistic it has to be. The thing with working with autism is it has to be a multimodal approach, there is a lot of really good research out there. The issue with a lot of the research is the implementation of that research. And that's where we have to get pretty creative of ways to to work with that, there's a lot of isolated interventions that you can do. But the more I think this goes back to what we're talking about before, the more we're able to combine different thought processes, the way we're able to combine more modalities and different approaches for autism really the better results that we're having. So we have to work through the whole inflammatory component, because we know that there is a huge component of autism that is related to inflammation. And that's where it's going to tie in all of our gut work, all of our supplementation, all of our dietary changes, cutting out some of the super inflammatory foods, and the immune reactive foods, the biggest with research with gluten and dairy and soy, yeast. So that is a huge part of it. We also know that we have to work through the immune system as well, a lot of the research that's coming out with autism is that it's more of a autoimmune based condition than anything. So we have to modulate the immune system. And we have to run our basic blood labs, we have to make sure that our micronutrients are where they are right to make sure vitamin D levels are the way that they are, because that's all going to have an effect on the on the immune system. And just what the neurophysiology of what autism is, because we know that there's something called glial cell priming, which is inflammation, and it almost perpetuates itself. And we have to get to what the what the root cause of that is. And that's why a lot of people are having great success with all of the gut brain axis and why that's such a huge thing in the autism community, because it plays such a big role. So the next step of that is, okay, you figured out the gut, you figured out inflammatory triggers, you figured out the immune system, let's say the next step, and let's figure out what's going on with the nervous system. Because you could do all the greatest thorough work, all the greatest rehab in the world that you could do, but if you're not addressing the other side of it, you can still make gains, but it's going to be a lot slower. And those gains going to be aren't going to be as efficient because the nervous system isn't in an environment where it can readily accept change, if you will. So working on your reflexes working in all the sensory integration, working on whatever disconnect there may be in the brain. I know Dr. Boyle talks about that a lot of the right brain left brain disconnect. A lot of that has a lot of really good merit behind it. But yeah, and working through almost like a from a developmental blueprint. So getting your reflexes squared away, your postural reflexes, your proprioceptive input, your vestibular input, your eye movements, your autonomic regulation, so getting somebody out of the sympathetic, parasympathetic overload. So yeah, there's there's a lot of moving parts with it. And we found a lot of our best success with autism when we're able to plug a lot of those pieces together. So we've had children go from nonverbal to verbal, we've gone from meltdowns to no meltdowns, we've gone from no interaction to interaction, better emotional regulation, kind of so on and so forth. Yeah. And the way that we do that, in my wholehearted opinion, is by having that integrative approach with it.

Jessica Hill: 38:45

Yeah, you have to address everything.

Dr Conner Bor: 38:46

Yeah. And again, it's hard. There's a lot to it. But it's just, again, with all of the research that I know behind autism, I feel as if I don't address some of those things, I'm missing a big piece of the puzzle. And that's the last thing we want to do. Because again, if you ever skipped over a piece of the puzzle, you'll go through everything else. And you'll realize that one thing you skipped over is the most important thing. So for me, it's figuring out and again, I don't want to overwhelm parents and overwhelm people by any means. But it's a matter of figuring out the best way to implement it. And that implementation is going to look a little bit different for everybody, and where they're at and where the parents are at too. Because it's easy for me to say, Do this, do this, do this, do this, but they go uhhhh we can't do all that. That's way too hard. And I get it. There's a lot that goes into it. And in cases like that, which are most of them, we just figure out the best game plan for for that child and that family.

Rachel Harrington: 39:48

Okay, tell us a little bit about Thrive Neurodevelopment

Dr Conner Bor: 39:52

Yes, so Thrive. Believe it or not, I started this during COVID. I put together the whole I call it the four step brain training course, which goes into the basics of getting started for what a developing brain needs. So it goes into everything from reflexes to some of the basics with diet and nutrition. It goes over a basic assessment of how to see what areas of the brain are strong, and what areas of brain are lacking. And then how to do certain interventions to just activate those parts of the nervous system. So it started with that got that whole course squared away. Some things happened on the back end, I opened my practice, I kind of put that on the on the backburner. Here, probably six, eight months ago, I decided to give it another go. I never even watched it the first time, but I just had all the videos ready to go. So I knew that would work well for a lot of people. But I knew there had to be more with it. So we created a whole online, I guess you could say it's a program because there's a lot of different pieces to it. So you have the whole course associated with it, that we have our library that we're going to continue to update with certain things that relate to overall neurodevelopment. So talking about different strategies with supplementation, talking about different strategies, with reflexes talking about different strategies with I don't know... sleep strategies and relating it all back to mindful applications of activating the nervous system. Then within there, we have a q&a in a Facebook group. And I'll start to just make sure that people are that people that are going through it can feel as confident as possible. But yeah, I mean, the main reason I wanted to start that is because we have a lot of people reaching out about what we do. And that's a good way to have some sort of adaptation about what we're doing in our office. And yeah, if there's another piece of the puzzle that fits in for somebody that's looking to continue to introduce strategies for their child. Awesome. And that's what it's been proven to be work really, really well with, because we have a lot of people that come in from out of town, but we have a lot of people that just can't travel here to Arizona. So this really is the best alternative for people that are looking to start introducing some of the work that we're doing into their overall therapeutic journey into the therapeutic plan.

Jessica Hill: 42:25

So is it designed for for therapists also use it to help their client?

Dr Conner Bor: 42:32

Yes. So it's designed for parents. We do have some therapists within there, it doesn't really go into the deep science behind it. And there's people that are using some of the information in there and integrating that into their practice. We have another thing in the works, that's going to be a little bit more geared towards therapists, that has a little bit more of the science behind it a little bit more of the professional terminology, if you would, but yeah, this one is more so designed for parents looking to help their kids.

Jessica Hill: 43:06

We will link that in the show notes so that any of our listeners who want to learn more, check it out.

Dr Conner Bor: 43:14

Yeah, awesome. And I know that you guys do something similar. And I was looking through and it looks looks awesome. And again, the more that we're able to get this information out to people that maybe wouldn't have access to this information, otherwise, all for the better. Because at the end of the day, the more kids we're able to help the better.

Jessica Hill: 43:36

It's really cool to reach people all the way across the world.

Dr Conner Bor: 43:40

Absolutely. And with the trajectory of what neuro development is, this stuff is going to, unfortunately, be needed more and more. And that's, again, it's unfortunate, but it's just the way that our world is our world isn't designed to help nerve development. Our world is, is it doesn't do much benefit of what kids need to grow and develop and thrive in the best way possible. And again, it's scary and this is a whole different topic of conversation, but with technology and AI and all this new stuff coming out. Yeah, it's a little frightening what future generations and what neurodevelopment may look like without proper guidance and changes in in what we're doing.

Jessica Hill: 44:33

What would you say is challenged with what you do?

Dr Conner Bor: 44:39

The biggest challenge of what I do I would say I guess always been so is the biggest struggle that I have or that parents have?

Jessica Hill: 44:56

Both

Dr Conner Bor: 44:58

So the biggest struggle that parents have definitely is implementation. That's hard for a lot of families. Because like I said, there's there's so much good research out there with so many different things. But I mean, even with some of the reflex exercises, I get a call saying, I can't I can't do any of these, it's impossible for me to do. And, again, that's, that is a challenging part of being a pediatric therapist. And that just kind of comes with what we do. And we're just limited by our own creativity of figuring out different things that families can do to help integrate this stuff a little bit easier. And, yeah, I would say that's, I guess, altogether, probably the biggest challenge, because everybody's a little bit different, everyone's gonna need that little modification. Compared to me working with adult, I can say, Do three sets of 10 of this, do this three times a day. And again, some adults aren't the most compliant, but at least you're able, if they want to do it, they're able to do it. Where sometimes, when working with a child, there's something that I know is going to be so so important, but it's just very challenging for us to implement, you know, whether it be a reflex, whether it be cutting out a certain food, whether it be taking a certain supplement. Yeah, I would say is probably the biggest challenge. How about you guys? What do you guys think? That's a good question.

Jessica Hill: 46:26

No, that's absolutely the biggest challenge that I face when working with clients is figuring out how the families can add more things into their routine to make it more efficient, or

Dr Conner Bor: 46:43

yes, no, I get that in the I know, I sound a broken record at this point with the laser. But for some of our kids that we have a lot of have a lot of challenges doing therapy, we start a handful of kids by just doing laser in itself. I mean, if you go to my office, there's times you'll see me putting a laser chasing a kid around the office trying to pull it apart in his head. And a lot of times, that's a good starting point to them feeling more comfortable to just getting some sort of activation. And a lot of times they come down a little bit after we start doing some interventions like that. And we have we even have like a rental a laser rental program here where parents would come in, they could rent the laser for a week, we come up with a whole home plan. And again, if they're if they're not able to do anything's just doing laser in itself, because again, you don't feel it. You don't hear it, you don't do anything. That's a good way that we can activate the system without completely upsetting a child if they're not ready for it.

Jessica Hill: 47:42

I need to rent the laser. Can I rent the laser?

Dr Conner Bor: 47:46

Oh, yeah, come on. You guys gotta come down.

Rachel Harrington: 47:55

If you can leave our audience with just one piece of advice, anything, any nuggets, any take home advice, what would it be?

Dr Conner Bor: 48:04

I would say, we live in a world that can heal. Let's let's go back this way. 3040 years ago, the primary input that our brains head was proprioceptive vestibular, I will say sensory. Our world has shifted to a decrease of that proprioceptive and vestibular input, and an increase of visual and auditory input. Our brains grow and develop and thrive based off of that vestibular and proprioceptive input. And that visual and auditory input doesn't nearly activate the brain as much as the other stuff does. And that's where remembering the roots of a normal developing brain comes back to getting outside, playing on a playground, running around tripping, falling and getting back up. All of that stuff is just is what is what the brain needs. I mean, think about a baby. If a baby said, what do you do, you hold it, you give it proprioceptive input, your rocket vestibular input, what you don't do is put a I guess you can put a light up to a kid's head and they'll come down. That's a different pathway. But that's not what a brain needs. And that's why I don't know if you're working with someone something like ADHD, or really any developmental disorder. I always tell people our goal is to activate the brain so it can inhibit itself. So you activate the brain still going to keep it and regulate itself. And the best way to do that is by the better input to our to our brains and that comes from some of the bigger stuff like sensory input from proprioceptive input. The stimulant I put in is not from Putting a kid in front of a TV and sitting in front of the Xbox for three hours. So yeah, let your kids be kids, whatever run around, why don't get 30?

Jessica Hill: 50:09

We're almost at a time but it just made me think of this study that I heard about about preschoolers who the parents used screens like a tablet, and would give their child a tablet to watch when the child was upset. And then they went to preschool. And they had no self regulation skills, because every time you were upset, they were provided with a screen, they were provided that visual and auditory input versus using that proprioception and vestibular sensory input to help their nervous system learn how to regulate and it's just it's so...

Dr Conner Bor: 50:47

100%.

Rachel Harrington: 50:49

Yeah, we could probably talk for another three hours. There's just so... it's so fascinating.

Dr Conner Bor: 50:55

Now, this is important. Yeah. And it's it is very much it's needed at the end of the day. And there's, I think, a need for more pediatric therapists that take more of this integrative approach and foundational approach and yeah, yep, that's 1% of times.

Rachel Harrington: 51:16

That's why That's why we're here. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

Dr Conner Bor: 51:23

No, thank you guys. This was this was fun. And I'm glad everyone now knows if a hot dog the final verdict of a hot dog.

Rachel Harrington: 51:30

We'll let you know when this episode launches and all the things here to hop on. But this was so perfect. Yeah. No, thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. Yeah,

Jessica Hill: 51:40

I'm looking forward to renting the laser.

Rachel Harrington: 51:42

I'm looking forward to our field trip next time.

Dr Conner Bor: 51:58

Cool, guys. Thanks so much.

Jessica Hill: 52:02

That was a really great conversation. And we will link all of his information in the shownotes, including his Instagram, his website, his course that he created for parents and caregivers. And we highly, highly recommend following him and learning more from him.

Rachel Harrington: 52:22

If you haven't already left us a review on iTunes or Spotify. Go ahead and do so. And we just look forward to hearing your feedback. And we are excited to get this information out there in the world.

Jessica Hill: 52:36

Okay, that's it. We'll see you next time.

Rachel Harrington: 52:38

Okay, bye. Thank you so much for listening to All Things Sensory by Harkla.

Jessica Hill: 52:45

If you want more information on anything mentioned in the show, head over to Harkla.co/podcast to get the show notes.

Rachel Harrington: 52:53

If you have any follow up questions, the best place to ask those is in the comments on the show notes or message us on our Instagram account, which is at heart club, underscore family or at all things sensory podcast, if you just search Harkla, you'll find us there.

Jessica Hill: 53:09

Like we mentioned before our podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla whether it's for one of our digital courses or one of our sensory swings, the discount code sensory, we'll get you 10% off. That's s e n s o r y.

Rachel Harrington: 53:27

Head to Harkla.co/sensory to use that discount code right now.

Jessica Hill: 53:33

We are so excited to work together to help create competent kids all over the world. While we make every effort to share correct information, we're still learning.

Rachel Harrington: 53:42

We will double check all of our facts but realize that medicine is a constantly changing science and art.

Jessica Hill: 53:48

One doctor or therapist may have a different way of doing things from another.

Rachel Harrington: 53:51

We are simply presenting our views and opinions on how to address common sensory challenges health related difficulties, and what we have found to be beneficial that will be as evidence based as possible.

Jessica Hill: 54:03

By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or your child.

Rachel Harrington: 54:12

Consult your child's pediatrician or therapist for any medical issues that he or she may be having.

Jessica Hill: 54:17

This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast.

Rachel Harrington: 54:22

Thanks so much for listening