Tara Phillips is a speech/language pathologist and has run her own communication based classroom for 25 years. She was at the early elementary level for the first part of her career, and at the early childhood level for the last 10 years.
Tara earned her bachelor’s and master’s degrees in Communicative Disorders at the University of Wisconsin-River Falls. Her minor was in Early Childhood Education. After working exclusively with autistic children at the elementary level for several years, she went on to obtain an Autism Certificate from Hamline University in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Check out Tara’s Podcast
Tara’s Instagram
Tara’s Facebook
https://autismlittlelearners.com
www.autismlittlelearners.com/visuals
We’d love to answer your questions on the podcast! Fill out this form -> https://harkla.typeform.com/to/ItWxQNP3
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products, & child development courses.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
Links
All Things Sensory Podcast Instagram
Harkla Website
Harkla YouTube
Harkla Instagram
Tara Phillips is a speech/language pathologist and has run her own communication based classroom for 25 years. She was at the early elementary level for the first part of her career, and at the early childhood level for the last 10 years.
Tara earned her bachelor’s and master’s degrees in Communicative Disorders at the University of Wisconsin-River Falls. Her minor was in Early Childhood Education. After working exclusively with autistic children at the elementary level for several years, she went on to obtain an Autism Certificate from Hamline University in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Check out Tara’s Podcast
Tara’s Instagram
Tara’s Facebook
https://autismlittlelearners.com
www.autismlittlelearners.com/visuals
We’d love to answer your questions on the podcast! Fill out this form -> https://harkla.typeform.com/to/ItWxQNP3
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products, & child development courses.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
Links
All Things Sensory Podcast Instagram
Harkla Website
Harkla YouTube
Harkla Instagram
So I think just starting with like small routines when do you need the visual schedule the most, or taking the pressure off of a visual schedule and have some pre made sequences on a ring for certain times of day, usually transition. So go into the car, getting dressed, taking a bath, brushing teeth, all of those kinds of things. That is something that for parents that feel overwhelmed or just don't even know where to start having a ring they can just pull off the wall and use for those things.
Rachel:I'm Rachel.
Jessica:And I'm Jessica. And this is All Things Sensory by Harkla.
Rachel:We are both certified occupational therapy assistants and together with Harkla, we are on a mission to empower parents, therapists and educators to help raise confident and strong children of all abilities.
Jessica:On this podcast, we chat about all things sensory, diving into special needs, occupational therapy, parenting, self care, overall health and wellness and so much more.
Rachel:We're here to provide raw, honest and fun strategies, ideas and information for parents, therapists and educators as well as other professionals to implement into daily life.
Jessica:Thank you so much for joining us.
Rachel:Hey, everyone, welcome back to All Things Sensory. We have a very exciting interview today for you. Her name is Tara and she's a speech language pathologist and she specializes in early education, autism and a lot of visual schedules as well, which we are obsessed with.
Jessica:Yes, so Tara is an SLP, who has been teaching young autistic children for over two decades. She had the unique position of running her own communication based classroom and team teaching with a special education teacher. She started Autism Little Learners in March of 2019, about six weeks after she lost her dad to leukemia. Her dad was one of her favorite people in the whole world and he was her biggest fan. The grief was so deep and so raw after he died, that Tara needed something to distract her mind from the pain. Prior to that she had been thinking about starting a store on Teachers Pay Teachers. This is because she was already making so many of her own materials for her classroom and it can be so difficult to find good resources that are at the right level for the children, especially for her three and four year old autistic children. So she figured that she couldn't be the only one having this issue. So she started creating resources and activities for educators and parents of young autistic children. She is a wealth of information. Our interview with her was just like, tip after tip after tip. She was amazing. And you whether you're a parent or a therapist, educator, you are going to find so much value from this conversation.
Rachel:We hope you enjoy it as much as we do. So let's go ahead and meet Tara. Hello, Tara, how are you today?
Tara Phillips:I'm so good. How are you two?
Rachel:We're good. Welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to have you. We have a couple of secret questions for you before we get started.
Tara Phillips:Okay.
Jessica:First question, what is your favorite board game?
Tara Phillips:Oh, I don't know if this is considered a board game. But we discovered maybe five years ago the game shut the box.
Rachel:Oh.
Tara Phillips:You have dice and you have a little numbers that you put down. It's super fun. You have to check it out,
Jessica:Is it? It sounds like Yahtzee.
Tara Phillips:Kind of a little bit.
Rachel:Good deal. I love new games. I love games. So I'm excited to try that one. Next question. If you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Tara Phillips:Gosh, that's a really hard one. I'm a pizza fanatic. So I think I'd have to go with pizza.
Rachel:Classic. Love that.
Jessica:And you can have so many different kinds of pizza. So it would work.
Tara Phillips:Right? That's true.
Jessica:Who is someone you consider to be a role model?
Tara Phillips:Aww, actually my dad, he passed away in 2019 and that is why I started my business: Autism Little Learners. The grief was really bad. He was always like my biggest cheerleader and he would have absolutely loved to see how far this business has come. And just in the midst of that grief, I needed something to distract me and I've been thinking about all the materials that I would make for my classroom. I had been wanting to try Teachers Pay Teachers, but after he died, I just needed a focus other than myself. So that's getting started.
Rachel:Oh, he would be so proud. I love that. This like completely opposite direction. So would you rather go on a ferris wheel for an hour or a tilt awhirl for five minutes.
Tara Phillips:Ferris wheel for sure. I have thrown up after being on a tilt awhirl after I had my kids.
Jessica:Oooh.
Tara Phillips:Like something changed. I couldn't I can't spin anymore.
Jessica:Yes.
Rachel:Oh man
Tara Phillips:I can do heights. I can do heights but I can not spin.
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:All right, kind of going off on that. What is your sensory quirk?
Tara Phillips:Oh, I think my husband would definitely say the biggest one is my sound sensitivities. If I put a piece of bread in the toaster, and I know it's there and it pops, I jump. So you can't walk in the room without scaring me. It's bad.
Rachel:Oh, interesting. Has it always been that way or?
Tara Phillips:It has not always been that way. It's been evolving over the last several years. So I don't know.
Rachel:I do have some ideas that we can chat about at the end. Okay, now that everyone knows your deepest, darkest secrets, why don't you tell us and our listeners who you are, what you do, why you do it, all the beautiful things?
Tara Phillips:Okay, I'm Tara. I'm a speech language pathologist. But I'm minored in early childhood education and so I've always had this interest in kind of the whole child beyond just looking at communication language. And when you're at early childhood, it's so everything goes together. What's the job of the speech therapist? What's the job of the special education teacher? Kind of overlaps a lot. So at early childhood, you become the jack of all trades. So I've been doing early childhood, specifically working in that preschool, three to five year old age for 10 years and before that, I was at the elementary level. And throughout all of it, I've had the unique position where I've been able to run my own classroom. So instead of seeing kids for speech times, I have a classroom that's communication based, and I've worked with autistic kids,
Jessica:Only autistic kids or was it a mix?
Tara Phillips:Not only, yeah.
Rachel:All the kids in class, at the same time?
Tara Phillips:Yeah, a self contained class, typically. Although we have found a lot of ways to get some integration in when it's right for a student. But yeah, so I would be the case manager for kind of like a special education teacher. So I'm managing paras. I'm managing the flow of the classroom, and the visual schedules and all of that, and it really gives such a great opportunity to focus on the communication throughout the day, and make sure it's implemented into everything.
Rachel:Okay, I do have some questions. I just feel like this is a very novel way of a speech therapist working in the school setting. Right?
Tara Phillips:Right, totally.
Rachel:Okay. So you said you manage paras? So does each child come to the classroom with their own para?
Tara Phillips:No. So it was a little bit different at the elementary level versus early childhood. So let's just focus on the last 10 years at early childhood, because the way that this classroom was set up, when I took that job, was so unique, and so awesome for the kids that I wish they would do it in more places. So I had my own classroom, or have my own classroom, and the special education teacher has her classroom right next to mine. So we look at it as if we're team teaching and let's say we have 12 students, then right when the kids come in the morning, six will go with her, six will go with me. And then halfway through the day, halfway through the morning, we switch sides. But it's really important for us to communicate. So their visual schedules, everything looks the same. We run our classrooms the same, but they get that time really focused with all of the language and communication activities. On my side, we'd call it my side, her side, but then we can service all the kids instead of having two classrooms with special education teachers, and speech goes into those classrooms, right? So you eliminate an entire staff member. So and then we just split the case management, and it works when you have the right combination of people. It works so smooth, and then we each have two paras.
Jessica:Okay.
Rachel:Okay.
Jessica:How does a child get into your classroom versus say the regular classroom?
Tara Phillips:Yeah, I think most of the time our students are young, they're just three or maybe coming out of the Birth to Three program. So sometimes we're assessing them and then sometimes they've already been evaluated and given the educational label from the Birth to Three team. But It really it's the team decision with the parent going, Okay, how much support do they need? And so if kids need higher support, or would benefit from more days of class during the week, right,? So a typical three year old preschool classroom is only two, half days a week. Where my class could offer four half days a week. So if we think especially at that younger age that those early threes, if that boost could really help them, that's when we kind of would go with that classroom.
Jessica:Is it something that student would come in, come to your classroom, and then halfway through the year, almost like transition out of your classroom? Or would they stay there for the whole year?
Tara Phillips:They could. Typically the kids that I get in our classroom, need a little more time. But it has happened where mid year, maybe we transition them out, if it's just really glaring, like, Okay, this is not their least restrictive environment anymore. They need an integrated setting. So we could do it anytime we want. But we really look at that kind of that end of that three year old year and go, Okay, now has their least restrictive environment changed? What's best for them and their support that's needed has that changed? And we have that discussion with the parents.
Rachel:Love that.
Jessica:That sounds really cool. So my aunt is a special education teacher and she does something similar, where she takes the young children who aren't ready to go into like the general classroom, because they need more help with handwriting and daily life skills. And so she works with them throughout the year with the goal of them integrating into the regular classroom.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, that sounds really similar. I think we call it the CIP classroom. So it's communication interaction program. So kids wouldn't necessarily have to have the autism label. But it's typically what we have for that classroom. Because we do structured teaching, integrating sensory throughout the day and really looking at AAC and how the kids can communicate.
Rachel:So you keep mentioning visual schedules, and I think it will, like a big part of your business that you created has to do with visual. So let's talk a little bit about that, creating visuals, and tell us about your business too.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, my business came out of a need and it was, once I was at that early childhood level, I would download something from teachers that looked awesome and perfect for my class. And then I'd print it and be like, Oh, no, it's like, a little bit too high or just not quite, it's not at that just right level for these young three year olds that are coming in that have the high support needs and they're working on some of those very beginner skills. And they need it to be really engaging, and bright and colorful and I just thought, I'm already modifying everything. I'm already creating my own stuff. I'm just going to do it to help other people too, because I can't be the only one that can find stuff for this that's really engaging and fun for this level.
Rachel:Okay, so you create visual schedules. Talk about the benefits that you've seen using these visual tools with your kiddos.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, so in addition to doing creating, like activities for matching or other skills, visual schedules has become my jam. Because I've done it for so many years. You guys when I was student teaching, that was the first time I saw a visual schedule, and she had us take Polaroid pictures of us and everything, put Velcro on the back, and that was the schedule because there was no like, Boardmaker there was no internet. Because it was probably when I student taught I think 1997. So.
Rachel:We have come a long ways.
Tara Phillips:Yes, we've come. Everything is so much more accessible now for teachers and I like to make it cute and accessible. So that's what I've done with the visual schedules and I have an entire course about implementing visual schedules, because there's so much that comes with it from choosing the type of pictures. Is it a cartoon type? Is it a real picture? Are you going to use an object schedule? And then I get a lot of questions about the length of the schedule, because I think people think you see the examples of visual schedules and you think, oh, I need to have it encompass their whole day. And when kids are just starting out, people have said, Tara, thank you for giving me permission to have one picture on the schedule. Because at first kids just need to understand like what that picture represents and if you have several, it can be overwhelming, or it can be like a choice board. Oh, I'll take that because they don't understand the sequence yet. So that is one of the things that through trainings, I like to address all of those little things and just give people permission to start simple.
Jessica:That's what we have encountered as well is when you're creating a visual schedule of some sort, whether it's for a routine, or a sensory diet, you just start with one. Don't try to incorporate a visual schedule into the morning, afternoon and evening routine all at once, when you've never even used one before. Pick one, and start with three pictures on the visual schedule that one day just to start.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, that's exactly it and the same thing, like you said, goes for the sensory aspect. So that is probably one of my most requested items is anything having to do with self regulation and part of that is teaching co-regulation and what that means, and then helping them with visuals. Maybe start to build that bridge to self
Rachel:Absolutely. I always say simplicity is the highest form regulation and one of the most well received resources I created was is the calming kit. And it's simple for three year olds, and four year olds, because we just start with like an I feel I need. And it might like you said have two choices, right? And so we might model we would model it first and look at that coal regulation side. Oh, gosh, it looks like you might feel sad, and model the picture and then what do you need? And we can it could simply at preschool, sometimes a drink of water, or a goldfish cracker or a matchbox car. Holding a matchbox car can be all we need to switch it, but then we're modeling that language. So it doesn't it's simple is better. of elegance It's so easy to overwhelm these children, especially when you're teaching and I love that you mentioned modeling it. I think that's the number one way that we like to teach these kiddos is. This is how I feel and this is the tool I'm going to use to help my body feel calm and organized. And then teaching them you're feeling frustrated. What strategy can you use and giving them that choice to pick. So I love that you go in depth and teach people how to do exactly that.
Tara Phillips:Well, yeah, and part of the teaching of that in you probably know, very well is when you have young autistic children that are at that preschool level, following a one step direction might not be there yet and so finding activities that can encourage things like deep breathing. So I teach people, okay, they might not, they're probably not going to understand when you say take a deep breath. So you model it, of course, but then also have activities like you make a little pretend flower, sniff and then you blow and I do it with yarn. So then the yarn kind of looks or, or a pinwheel, right? Bubbles, like things that naturally help little ones take deep breaths, but then I add the visual to it so that we can start to link it right into their memory.
Rachel:Yeah,
Jessica:it's so funny, because when you mentioned the I feel, I need as a visual, I wrote that down with the names of a couple of clients that I work with that I'm like, I need to have that in the clinic this week, because they would benefit so much from that. So thank you for sharing that idea.
Tara Phillips:I'll send you my calming kit, because I really leaned on OTs that I work with to look at that after. I know what OTs have taught me and that I've implemented for 25 years in the classroom, but I always want to make sure that did I say it quite right? Did I represent that right? So I had some friends look over it. So I'd love your eyes, too, if there's anything I should be adding.
Jessica:That's amazing and I feel the same way too. I love that collaboration piece with SLPs in the clinic of like, Hey, I have this kiddo who's really struggling to understand this and this, how would you best communicate that with them? And how do I help them develop the language for that? So I love that collaboration so much.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, and the two are so intertwined: language and sensory. I think of a student that I had for a couple years. He went off to kindergarten this year and he was just my little
Jessica:Absolutely. buddy and he was one that everyone would be like, Oh, he's hard, you know, behaviors. He had a kind of a quick trigger to melt down if something didn't go his way or if it was different and for some reason we have those kids where I have a really good connection with him. And someone else might have that really good natural connection with someone else and you play with that because it's important we all connect better with different people. So he was my guy and he would come in and he
Tara Phillips:And that could probably carry over into other loves dinosaurs. and I think the old school way of thinking was, okay, you got to work for the dinosaur. You need to do this and then you can have this. And if I do us a first then it's more of like a schedule, like a sequence versus a, you got to do this to get this. But he would come in I know, he loves dinosaurs, and it was like, let's start his day off good. We're gonna start with dinosaurs. But I would show him the picture of dinosaur. So if he came in, and I wasn't there, he'd be like running around the room, starting to melt down, and they're like, guessing, okay, does he want this? Does he want this? So eventually, I had a picture of dinosaur just up on a cabinet. He understood what it meant, knew where it was, and he could take it and go give it to anybody. And it was so beautiful, because he could communicate it to anyone. It was super simple, because it was one picture and then his day started off great. And we worked in the communication, and then that helped his regulation. environments as well, if he wanted a snack, or if you wanted a hug, or like a toy or something, he could see that picture and give it to a caregiver. And something so simple as a picture of a dinosaur, like, catapulted his learning and his communication. Yeah, I one of the things that I created early on was, it's called the visual support starter set and it just has some of those visuals that are the best that I have found that have worked over several years, right? That I can use with lots of different students that have different support needs, and use them in the classroom as the basics. If I'm going to teach my paraprofessionals anything, I'm going to teach them how to use these. So it's things like an all done bucket, visual schedule, and one of them is the wait mat. And this story was about the same little boy. So he's three, he's pretty much nonspeaking. So most people around that, well, I don't think he's going to understand a wait mat, right? So it's a simple sheet of paper with two hands on it like this and it says, Wait. And so I came up with it to teach kids. You don't have to be all done with those transition objects or those security items that you hold. I'm sure you too, have seen lots of kids that hold lots of stuff, right?
Rachel:Yeah.
Tara Phillips:Yeah. So he had his dinosaurs, but then it prevented him from doing some of the activities that we had, especially if it involved fine motor. And so this weight mat, I introduced it to him, he has no way of really letting me know that he understands it. But we just keep practicing it little by little every day. And so I would take the dinosaurs and say, okay, they're gonna sit on the wait mat, and I just have them on there for just a few seconds and be like, okay, there you go. So just start with really small increments of time. The thing he needed to do is trust that I was going to give it back because our kids are so used to us, adults, taking their favorite things, because they're in the way or they think that they shouldn't be holding them. So over time, this was probably fall when I started, by April, you guys, he went over to a little work area where you have a little table and chairs to work with me and the little wait mat was up on the windowsill. He goes over there, pulls it down on the table himself and puts his things on it. Oh, like I'm ready and like, we didn't teach that other than just continuing to model and have these little bits of time expanded. And it took till April. But now look in the future if people keep using i what a valuable skill that is.
Jessica:That is so cool.
Tara Phillips:And self-regulation too because he's not getting all upset because we're taking his things. And my point is if he can learn it being three nonspeaking, quick to dysregulate, I think most kids can learn it then.
Rachel:I liked that you mentioned you started it in fall and by April, he had it figured out. It was not an overnight thing and I feel like so many families and parents and sometimes therapists to think that if it doesn't work the first week that you try it, it's not going to work, and that is just not that's just not how it works. Like it takes that consistency and that patience and that practice and that role playing and the modeling in order for those concepts for neurodiverse kiddos, for neurotypical kiddos. Like it takes that repetition at practice to really get it.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, yeah. And the great thing is I've been teaching about it for a couple years now and parents and educators, the best thing is when I get a message or an email that says, Oh my gosh, the wait map worked. He's putting all this stuff to the side and he trusts that we're gonna give it back and he gets it. It's such a great alternative to a power struggle.
Rachel:Oh, yeah.
Jessica:Because those never work.
Tara Phillips:Never and then they erode the relationship. So yeah.
Jessica:And that's so important that trust that you mentioned, because our kiddos need to trust us, in order to feel safe to have that self regulation to be able to learn new skills. And we talked about that of building rapport with the child, with the family, so that they know us and we know them. And there's that trust, and that relationship that's being built, because that's where we'll see success happen.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, I agree. For me relationship first. Like, that's the basis of everything and regulation, and relationship. Those two are like the foundation and at the beginning of every school year, I always tell my paras, we're going to work on relationship first. So doesn't mean we don't do anything else. But we need to keep that in mind as we're doing our activities. If something's going downhill. Let's switch something up. Let's figure it out so that we can keep building a positive relationship.
Rachel:Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna throw you on the spot a little bit here for a minute.
Tara Phillips:Okay.
Rachel:I loved your idea of the wait mat. Do you have any ideas for like a sharing mat for siblings and like getting two young siblings not to rip the toys out of each other's hands?
Jessica:I feel like you're dealing with this right now and that's why you are asking.
Rachel:Definitely not. I know people who are.
Tara Phillips:That is a huge one sharing is so hard for any kid and then you add, you know, neurodiversity, or autism into it, it makes it more difficult. But I don't have a sharing map. But I have a little bit of a tip from the genius special education teacher that I worked with for 10 years, we team taught together, and then she retired last July. So it's been sad. But anyway, she had a great way to do it. She would do it not started in the middle of the play area with lots of toys, right? It would be more at a table or somewhere that's a little more controlled, with not a whole bunch of stuff out, and she would have some toys and a visual. And it said it was just basically, I give you a toy. You give me a toy and so it's a trade.
Rachel:Yep.
Tara Phillips:You don't trade their most valuable item, you'd have other ones that maybe they don't care as much about. So I might have a yellow Lego and you have a blue one. And we're gonna say, Okay, I give you a toy, you give me a toy. And you just start with the trade. Simply.
Rachel:Simple trade.
Tara Phillips:Yes. Then you can move on from there, but start with the trade.
Rachel:So good. So good.
Jessica:You're gonna try it?
Rachel:Ah, we've tried it. But not in the therapeutic setting. In more of like, wow, don't rip the toy out of his hand. We need to practice it not in the moment. We need to step away from that moment and practice it more.
Jessica:Yeah,
Rachel:I know. Exactly.
Tara Phillips:I think Terry would say like, Terry's the teacher, special ed teacher, I think she would say like, teach it when they're stable. Everything in their world, they're super regulated. Teach it then many times, so then maybe they can access it, in those times of stress.
Rachel:Always so great and so kind when they're happy and then that's their favorite toy.
Tara Phillips:I know. Well, that's what I teach the strategies from the common kid to is like, we don't and I feel I need. We need to have happy on there too and you could say, oh, you feel happy. What do you want? And then it's kind of like, Oh, cool. You get to hold a Matchbox car now? Okay. Because if we only bring those things in, when kids are dysregulated really well, that they're not going to want to participate in them.
Rachel:It's almost like it's a punishment instead of a tool.
Jessica:It's good to teach those moments when they're happy too. Like, yeah, I feel happy right now. So that's a good point that you make. I had a question. What are some tips that you would give parents for starting using a visual schedule for say, like a daily routine, but the parents have told you, I'm a perfectionist. I have trouble starting something like this because it doesn't feel perfect. I feel like the pictures aren't right. How would you help them to just get started and let go of that perfectionism?
Tara Phillips:I think it feels really overwhelming for parents to go, Oh my gosh, a visual schedule? I need to have something for every part of the day, and home is home. And so I think a lot of times teachers will say, Oh, they won't use a visual schedule at home, or they won't use this at home. And it's like, okay, that's fine. We'll just keep doing what we're doing and when and if they're ready, someday, we will help them do it. But for the parents that are willing to do it, but maybe overwhelmed, or like you said, perfectionistic, they want to make it just perfect. I would help them identify like certain routines or times of day that it feels more manageable. So not start out like, we're going to do a visual schedule for all day, every transition, like that is way too much. So let's start at bedtime, right? Or I had one family over the pandemic that I was working with online and she said, Oh, my gosh, he won't let me comb his hair and it must have been important to her. Right? So I was like, Okay, how could we make this visual, and this isn't exactly a visual schedule, but a visual support. So I got a picture of a child with the hair getting combed and we just I velcroed on numbers like one through five. And so I said, Okay, I coached her on the next call, I'm going to send this to you in the mail and you can just do like, Okay, we're gonna do two combs and it worked. And then she just increased the numbers. And then within two weeks, I think he was just letting her comb as many times. Yeah. So I think just starting with like, small routines. When do you need the visual schedule the most, or taking the pressure off of a visual schedule and have some pre-made sequences on a ring for certain times of day, usually transition. So go into the car, getting dressed, taking a bath, brushing teeth, all of those kinds of things. That is something that for parents that feel overwhelmed or just don't even know where to start. Having a ring, they can just pull off the wall and use for those things.
Jessica:And it's already there for them.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a sequence. So there's no velcroing. It's just start with sequences for daily routines, and then they're good.
Rachel:Wow, you've given us so many ideas.
Jessica:I know. We haven't even asked you for any tips except those last two questions. You've already given us a couple of things.
Rachel:Let's talk a little bit about what advice you'd give parents of autistic children, whether it's around visual schedules or not. What's your advice for our parents here?
Tara Phillips:I would tell them to keep it simple. That's been our theme throughout this interview today. But keep it simple. Do not add a bunch of pressure to yourself and I also tell them with anything, go with their gut, whether it's a certain type of therapy, or a therapist or anything,. What to implement, what not to go with your gut, you know, your child the best, and the things that are going to work for them. And if you're not sure, go with your gut feeling on it.
Jessica:Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel:I like that.
Jessica:I feel like I already know what you're gonna say for this question. But we'll ask it anyways, just in case. What advice would you give to fellow therapists when working with autistic children?
Tara Phillips:Well, I would for sure, say use visual supports.
Jessica:Yes.
Tara Phillips:But more is not better. Less is more with visual supports. Because you want something that's going to become a predictable routine, and that your support staff is going to also use so that it becomes predictable for kids. So that's why that visual support starter set that I mentioned, that has the wait mat and a visual schedule, the all done bucket, there's a whole bunch of stuff in it. That one is great, because you can implement one thing at a time and develop systems and routines. So I think that would be my advice for staff, coworker, special educators is to allow yourself to start small, and get some of those predictable routines in.
Rachel:I love that start small. Yes.
Jessica:I just had a question popped into my head. Another one. What are some of the differences pros and cons between using an AAC device versus some sort of physical velcro visual schedule or the you know picture card visual supports?
Tara Phillips:I think with that it's really dependent on the school you work in or wherever you are, what's available, right? So, I think robust AAC is more and more showing us that it's the best way to go. At any age, you don't need prerequisite skills. But there are some schools that don't have that available. So core boards are being used more. I kinda like a combination of core and fringe. So that you can get real specific. So if my student is saying eat. We might have a meltdown if I can't find that specific thing that they want. So having those kind of fringe pages I grew, not grew up, not when I was young, but grew up as an educator using textbooks, because that's what we used and we're taught in the very regimented way. But I think a lot of us in the classroom never used it in that strict way, because you don't have to on one to do it and implement it. So I think we've always been more flexible with it. So I think a combination of all those things.I'm working on a product that people can take a pecs type book, but implement it with more core and fringe and working out the tweaks on that for people that don't have access to AAC, even though it's becoming more affordable. Some schools just don't have access to that, and some families don't. So you definitely want to have a backup somehow on paper.
Rachel:Yeah. Okay, I had another question come up. You mentioned this at the beginning. But I just want to dive a little bit deeper into it. You mentioned identifying which type of visuals to use with a child. So cartoon images, real images, modified images, could you give us a little bit on how you identify which one?
Tara Phillips:Yeah, I start mainly with a cartoon type image, just because if most kids can understand that, it's the easiest, and most time efficient to be able to make and have the pieces extras there to be able to swap out. So when I make visual schedules for my three year olds, I'll start with used to be Boardmaker, but now I created my own visual schedules resource that has cuter pictures. They're just they show what we're getting at better, they're a little more concrete instead of abstract.
Rachel:Is there a name for them? Do you have a name?
Tara Phillips:The type of images?
Rachel:Yeah, like your little, your little images? Is there a name for them that we can like search?
Jessica:Oh, I just so, it's the visual schedules for special education resource and then the little pictures I use in it are clipart that I've purchased. So I'm really picky. If it's morning meeting, I want it to look like morning meeting or circle time and so I have a main visual schedule resource and then I have many schedules for speech therapy, OT, gym, class, and art class. So that you can create many schedules within some of those different activities with pictures that pertain to that subject that aren't too abstract, right? So I've had luck with most of my students over the years do understand this kind of symbol. Now, if they don't, then, if I have one student who doesn't understand that, then I would think, okay, maybe we should use a real picture. So maybe the real picture of the sensory room, they see it, and they're like, I know what that is, and they're trying to give it to me all day long. So then I know they've got that. So eventually, that student might be able to go back to more of the cartoon type pictures. But if they don't understand the real picture, then I would think, okay, how could we do an object schedule of some type. So then I think about, you could have a miniature so you can have a little dollhouse chair to represent group time or something. But the best ones I found have been if it's a piece of the activity on the schedule, because it gives them a thing they need to do with it. So let's say I want to have them come to the certain table to work with an adult, then maybe I always start with the same puzzle and I have that puzzle piece on their schedule, or I give it to them and then they get this predictable routine. Like oh, she gives me this. I need to go over here and put it in. Then they know what happens after. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when you have a little one, and you give them you show them the diaper, and they're like, oh, and they'll come to the bathroom. So if it's an object that could be part of an activity, that would be awesome.
Rachel:I love that.
Jessica:Yes, that makes sense.
Tara Phillips:Does that help?
Rachel:We've done we call them tactile schedules, but we generally do them for kiddos who have visual impairments. But it's the I like the idea of giving them a piece of the activity that they need to complete. I love that, especially for our autistic kiddos, who like like things to be done and like things to be done a certain way. They're like, Okay, let me go do it. Let me go put the puzzle piece where it needs to go. Let me go put the pen in the maze, or whatever it is.
Tara Phillips:It would be like you're doing this certain activity and that's all you do. But it could be the thing, predictable, like, this table always has this shape sorter and I know I have to go put the circle in. And then you finish that and then present a different activity.
Jessica:Yeah, they know what the expectation is. So they're not anxious, and they're not going to melt down because they know exactly what to do.
Tara Phillips:Yeah. And the purpose of the visual schedule is to get to a location, right? Like within an activity, you could break it down more with some visual steps. But really, visual schedules are all about transitioning to the next thing and often it's a location.
Jessica:Yeah, yeah, I always like to talk about, like, as adults, pretty much every single adult that I know uses a calendar of some sort. Whether it's a calendar, on their phone, on the wall, the regular book type calendar planner, we pretty much all use them and so it makes sense to teach our kids how to use a calendar or a schedule of some sort, to organize their day and organize their routine. And so often our kiddos can't project themselves into the future, just because they don't have that skill. And so that's what that provides them.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, it can really reduce anxiety and really help with transitions and understanding. And I know a lot of times people ask me, because they know I'm the visual schedule person is, when do we get rid of them? When do we fade them out? And I had heard this somewhere and it still rings true, as soon as you are ready to throw out your shopping list, your Google Calendar, your to do list, your date book.
Rachel:Yeah.
Tara Phillips:Then you can fade it.
Rachel:I love that never.
Jessica:Never.
Tara Phillips:Never I rely on so many lists. My husband makes fun of me. But guess who doesn't forget anything?
Rachel:Yes.
Jessica:I'm the same way. I use the calendar on my phone. I have one on the wall at home. I have a planner. I have a grocery list. And I'm writing stuff all over the place on sticky notes all the time. Like, yeah,
Rachel:it's so helpful for the executive functioning aspect too to have that. Exactly, exactly. So kiddos., most kiddos, especially autistic kiddos are going to struggle to some degree with those executive functioning skills. So if we can have the visuals, check, check that off the box.
Tara Phillips:Yep and instead of fading it out, as they get to know more how to use it, think how can we transform this into more of a to do list right? or a calendar. So over time they learn how to write. Okay, let's see if we can make it more into a list and then more into a day planner. So I like to get people thinking along those lines versus fading out.
Jessica:I love that. Yeah. And I have had families tell me that, oh, yeah, we used a visual schedule when we first started therapy, but then they were doing so well. So we stopped using it and a year and a half later, we're here and we're struggling to start this new routine. This new school routine and I'm like, Well, gotta get that visual schedule back.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, it's kids learn their routine, especially our little autistic kiddos. That's awesome when they learn the routine and so there's certain aspects of the day where, let's say I'm going to do group time. I turn off the light before we start and for some kids, that becomes the natural cue. And so I always tell my paras, like we're not going to make if they come and sit down at group, we're not going to make them go back and check their schedule. But if we have another kid coming over with their group time picture, we might just kind of be sure to be like oh group and model it reinforced that so maybe that child sees it. But man, they're doing this transition on a natural cue, like that's what we want out of it. So I think it gets hard and confusing when kids start to really understand their schedule within a certain place or activity. So OT, they go there, they know their routine. So how do we make sure we still have it up just in case and to keep them in the loop on referencing it alittle bit.
Jessica:But yeah, then you can just change and modify the visual schedule as needed. I like that.
Rachel:Yeah,
Jessica:So good. Cool.
Rachel:Well, Tara, I honestly think that we could probably chat with you all day and pick your brain. We might have to have you on again and talk about your business. And before we started recording, you mentioned that you were about ready to do your business full time. And so I really want to chat about that, because I feel like there's a lot of people who are probably in similar situations or are hoping to be. So we'll probably have to have you back on and share that story. But before we let you go, How can parents find you, work with you, download all of your amazing visuals and materials.
Tara Phillips:I would say first, whether you're an educator or a parent, go to www.autismlittlelearners.com/visuals, because that you're going to get that free visual support starter set with the wait mat and all my favorite things. And it's a gift from me to you and you can just take it and hit the ground running. Other than that, I'm autism little learners on Facebook, Instagram, all the social places, and my website is also autismlittlelearners.com.
Jessica:Perfect, and everything will be linked in the show notes. So everyone who wants to check it out can just go and click on exactly what they need.
Tara Phillips:Awesome. And I started a podcast this year. So I've been doing that since February.
Rachel:Amazing. And that's autism little learners as well. Right?
Tara Phillips:Yeah. Yeah. So I would love to have you two on at some point when you have time.
Jessica:Yes. Absolutely.
Rachel:Oh, well, thank you so much, Tara. This was so fun. You are so knowledgeable and you are like, seriously such an eloquent speaker. I could just listen to you all day.
Tara Phillips:Well, thank you and that is a big compliment.
Rachel:You are a speech therapist so I'd expect nothing less. I'm just kidding.
Tara Phillips:I sent my husband Tiktok the other day, and it was the woman was like, hysterically laughing. And he's looking, the guy's looking kind of like depressed and it says like, when your wife corrects every word, you say that's wrong. And I was like, this is us. This is us.
Jessica:Oh no.
Rachel:It's out of love. It's all out of love.
Tara Phillips:Yeah. Yeah, I was just like, she's a speech language pathologist. I can't say anything right. We laugh about it.
Rachel:Well, thank you so much.
Tara Phillips:Yeah, it was great to talk to you.
Rachel:Thanks, Tara. We'll be in touch soon. Okay?
Tara Phillips:Okay. Bye. Bye.
Rachel:Bye. So like we mentioned, Tara is absolutely amazing. We will have to have her back on because I definitely want to hear more of her journey to that like, therapist, entrepreneurialism. But I am a nerd about that sort of stuff and she's just, she's fantastic and so kind and so sweet.
Jessica:Yes, this was amazing. I already have things that I'm going to be implementing with some of my clients in the clinic that I got from her. So that's so cool that she just she had so much.
Rachel:She had so much and she gave us all those freebies, make sure that you go to her website and download the freebies. Download her kids, we'll put it in the show notes. So that way you have it.
Jessica:Yep, everything about her. All of her links are going to be there. Make sure that you go follow her on Instagram and let her know that you found her on the podcast. Make sure you go listen to her podcast and if you enjoyed this episode, let us know. Send us a message, screenshot this and tag us on social media, leave us a review on iTunes and Spotify, and that we'll let's go.
Rachel:Okay, have a great week. Thank you so much for listening to All Things Sensory by Harkla.
Jessica:If you want more information on anything mentioned in the show, head over to Harkla.co/podcast to get the shownotes.
Rachel:If you have any follow up questions, the best place to ask those is in the comments on the show notes or message us on our Instagram account which is at Harkla_family or at all things sensory podcast. If you just search Harkla, you'll find us there.
Jessica:Like we mentioned before our podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla. Whether it's for one of our digital courses or one of our sensory swings, the discount code sensory will get you 10% off.
Rachel:Head to Harkla.co/sensory to use that discount code right now.
Jessica:We are so excited to work together to help create confident kids all over the world. While we make every effort to share correct information we're still learning.
Rachel:We will double check all of our facts but realize that medicine is a constantly changing science and art.
Jessica:One doctor or therapist may have a different way of doing things from another.
Rachel:We are simply presenting our views and opinions on how to address common sensory challenges, health related difficulties, and what we have found to be beneficial that will be as evidence based as possible.
Jessica:By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or your child.
Rachel:Consult your child's pediatrician or therapist for any medical issues that he or she may be having.
Jessica:This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast.
Rachel:Thanks so much for listening