Welcome to episode 138! This episode is sponsored by Harkla Co. Learn more about why we LOVE this company HERE! Use the Code: “sensory” for a 10% discount on everything in their shop!
This week’s episode is an incredible conversation with Whitney Sarnowski. Whitney spent the first few years after graduating with her undergraduate degree - in special educations and a minor in primary education - teaching children with Autism. In her third year of teaching, she decided to pursue her ME.D with the end goal of becoming a BCBA. Whitney then gave birth to her son (now 3 years old) who was diagnosed with ASD.
Whitney now uses her education and training to empower and educate parents on the fundamentals of early intervention and behavior principles. ABA can be a very controversial therapy and Whitney works very hard to break down the misconceptions and fears surrounding ABA, in order to help children and families feel safe and confident when accessing ABA for their child.
Be sure to check out the links on our blog at
Welcome to episode 138! This episode is sponsored by Harkla Co. Learn more about why we LOVE this company HERE! Use the Code: “sensory” for a 10% discount on everything in their shop!
This week’s episode is an incredible conversation with Whitney Sarnowski. Whitney spent the first few years after graduating with her undergraduate degree - in special educations and a minor in primary education - teaching children with Autism. In her third year of teaching, she decided to pursue her ME.D with the end goal of becoming a BCBA. Whitney then gave birth to her son (now 3 years old) who was diagnosed with ASD.
Whitney now uses her education and training to empower and educate parents on the fundamentals of early intervention and behavior principles. ABA can be a very controversial therapy and Whitney works very hard to break down the misconceptions and fears surrounding ABA, in order to help children and families feel safe and confident when accessing ABA for their child.
Be sure to check out the links on our blog at
Welcome to the sensory project show with Rachel and Jessica. We're here to share all things sensory, occupational therapy, parenting, self care and overall health and wellness from a therapists perspective, providing raw, honest, fun ideas and strategies for parents and families to implement into daily life. Thank you so much for joining us. Today's episode is sponsored by Harkla, a company that makes high quality products for everyday use. This includes sensory and therapy equipment, and products as well as supplements. The owners Casey and Amelia are local to Boise, which makes this even cooler for us since they're local to us.
Jessica:Harkla is a company on a mission, they donate 1% of each month's sales to the University of Washington Autism Center, which funds cutting edge research and sponsored scholarships for children with autism to attend a summer camp.
Rachel:Stay tuned to hear more later in the episode as well as to get a special discount.
Jessica:Okay, let's get started.
Rachel:Hey, guys, welcome back to the sensory project show you're listening to Rachel and Jessica and today is episode 138.
Jessica:And we're coming at you with an interview today. We are interviewing our friend Whitney, and we are gonna talk all about ABA.
Rachel:Yes, if you aren't familiar with ABA, if you are familiar with it, and you want to learn a little bit more about it, then tune in, but we asked her all of the burning questions that we had about it. So we're not super familiar with ABA here in Idaho and with our current practice. So this was a great episode for us to learn a lot about ABA.
Jessica:And we know that there are some conflicting opinions about ABA services. So we just asked that you go into this episode with an open mind and just listen and take it all in. Let it marinate, and then you know, then keep going.
Rachel:Alright, you guys, let's meet Whitney. Hi, Whitney, how are you today?
Whitney:I'm good. How are you?
Rachel:So good.
Jessica:We're so good. We're excited to talk to you and before we jump into all of our, you know, our topic of the day, we have five secret questions that we need to ask you first.
Whitney:Oh gosh, okay, go for it.
Jessica:The first question is, what is one word that others use to describe you?
Whitney:Kind.
Rachel:I like it. That's a good one. It's a good way to be thought of. Number two, would you rather walk over event and have your skirt fly up in front of a large crowd or fart during a quiet moment at Christmas dinner?
Whitney:Fart.
Rachel:Oh Yeah!
Whitney:Oh, yeah, I raising a boy. I mean, we talked about farts all the time.
Jessica:That is so true All right. If you could travel anywhere, with cost not being an issue, where would you go?
Whitney:Oh, man. Well, like, lately, I've been wanting to go to Virgin Islands, which I know isn't like super crazy. But that would be with my husband. Just us, no kids.
Jessica:Yes.
Rachel:That's important. Yes, I agree on that one. Number four. Do you make your bed every day?
Whitney:I did at the start of quarantine. But I've lost it.
Jessica:I feel like you have a pretty good reason not to make your bed every day. It's a lot of work to get around right now. Right?
Whitney:It is. And since we made a move transition to Colorado from Tennessee, over the summer, and our little boy has ended up now transitioning and sleeping with us. And so it's like our room is just a mess. So why bother?
Rachel:Dude, I feel you there. I feel like you make your bed and then it's messy again. You know?
Whitney:Yeah. He's such a sensory seeker. Our bed is his trampoline. So not that we don't have a trampoline we do. But he just prefers the bed because he can crash into everything. And, and so even if I made it, it would just look disastrous.
Rachel:So why bother?
Jessica:My son does the exact same thing where he loves to jump on my bed.
Whitney:Yeah. And then he like crashed. I mean, he's just such a bit like and then he crashes into the pillows and he's like twirling, jumping in the air.
Rachel:I love it.
Jessica:Yep. How old is he?
Whitney:He's turned three in August. The end August.
Rachel:Oh my gosh. So fun.
Jessica:All right, last question. This one's our favorite. What is your sensory quirk?
Whitney:Oh gosh, mine, huh? I'd have to think about that.
Rachel:I know, focus so much on the kids and then we realized that we, as adults, have our own things.
Whitney:You know, I really get bothered by lights. Lighting.
Rachel:Oh.
Whitney:Yeah. Like I always find myself turning down lights, especially in the kitchen. We're in a rental house right now until we find our permanent house and the lighting like I can't deal with. I know they're better for the environment, but I cannot deal with LED lights. Like there's just something about them. Like I have to do the old school like soft tone lights.
Rachel:How do you deal with fluorescent lights?
Whitney:Yeah, no, I would get terrible headaches when I was a teacher and so I actually like selfishly got some of the covers for the lights. But then they weren't fire safe. So when the fire department came through, they made me take them all down because they were flammable.
Jessica:I wouldn't even think of that.
Rachel:Yeah, heard of the Erland syndrome, with the different colored glasses? That could be something for you to look into.
Whitney:Okay.
Rachel:So now that we all know your deepest, darkest secrets, who you are, what you do, why you do it, how you do it, all those things.
Whitney:What I do so right now, I'm just a stay at home mom and I not just I am a stay at home mom. We have a second one on the way due very, very soon. And before I had our son, I was an autism teacher. So I taught kiddos on all sides of the spectrum, my very first year teaching, it was more kiddos who are verbal and working on academic skills. They were included. A lot of times they would come to my classroom just for like that one on one intervention support, whether it be social skills or you know, just needing help academically in an area. And then I transitioned to a different school, and really found my passion with kiddos with higher needs, who are nonverbal, working on life skills. And I did that for a few years. And then I had my son. And during my I think it was third year of teaching, I decided to pursue my master's degree in special ed and applied behavior analysis, ABA. And then once I graduated, I was like, Oh, I've got to get my PhD. There was only a few universities, and still are only a few universities that give PhDs in applied behavior analysis. and one of them was in Reno, the University of Reno and so I'm pregnant, and we're moving across the country to Reno Nevada. And I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna like establish residency and get get my PhD and have my son and you know, just the dream. And life took me by the hand and was like, Nope, that's not what's happening. I, I did all of my hours. So when typically people who go into the field of ABA, they be later become like a BCBA, which is a board certified behavior analysts. You have to have at least a master's degree to be one and that was my hope. I just wanted to like, top the cake with a PhD. I was an addict of school. I just I didn't not want to be in school. I want to let the end goal was to have my own clinic. Well, my son came five weeks early and by two weeks, he was showing signs like he was spitting up blood because he had dairy allergy and he like had lots of sensory stuff, which is from what I've learned for you, Rachel, like, very normal with premiums to have those just kind of extra sensory needs. And, like he wouldn't let me touch his arms for a long while. And still even he like quivers like I try to put lotion on sometimes, but anyways. So I obviously did not pursue my PhD my son took all priority. He it was just kind of a journey since having him and then my husband's job took us down to Tennessee Nashville. Anyways, I'm not sure about Tennessee. So it's just kind of ended up being we weren't in Nevada for a short period of time. Our family moved down to Tennessee and then we ended up pursuing a autism diagnosis for our son. And so all that being said, I have all of my credentials to be at the BCBA. I was planning to sit for the exam at the end of the summer, but COVID. They the the times that I was able to take it, they actually ended up because they do it like within a radius and the closest one was like way up north from where we are like a couple hours away. And so it took a lot of planning of, you know, doing it, when I had care for Kyson, my son, and it just they all ended up getting canceled, and now they're cancelled through like, February, Ithink.
Jessica:Oh, wow,
Whitney:I know. And I've been, it's been quite the adventure, like, I, you will have only so many years after you complete your hours to sit in on your exam, which makes sense and so it's coming down. It's kind of a crunch time, you know, to be able to sit for the exam. So as long as I sit for before next July, which hopefully COVID aside, I will be able to and then I'll be a BCBA. But I last year was doing like parent consults, because I think it's really important. I saw a need on Instagram. Parents in other countries are struggling. You know, I know that I'm struggling with all sorts of therapies, but ABA, especially, and I had a lot of parents reach out to me and just say like, you know, we have this diagnosis, but we don't know what to do with it, you know. They want to move to the US and it's not feasible. And so I was doing some parent consults, just using my master's degree because I miss teaching and helping parents that way. So that's kind of where I'm at professionally, I guess.
Rachel:I love it. I love it. So we're going to kind of focus on ABA today.
Whitney:Yeah.
Rachel:Because we haven't actually talked to anyone about ABA on our podcast, and we have some dying questions to ask you.
Whitney:I know it's like, the big elephant in the room.
Jessica:Really, it's like it's controversial.
Whitney:It's very controversial. Yes, it is.
Rachel:And here in Idaho for us. We talked about this before we started recording. But here in Idaho, it's only recently becoming ABA, like it's been ahi Habilitative Intervention for so long. So now that it's starting to become ABA, and we're starting to work more with ABAs, we want to learn more about it and how we can kind of work together to help the child. So it's all just perfect timing.
Whitney:Wonderful, let's learn.
Rachel:Let's learn. Let's talk about some of the core foundations of ABA. Like what is it?
Whitney:So applied behavior analysis basically uses evidence based research to shape or replace, or, like, I guess, a word that a common word would be like, encourage behavior. And behavior, a lot of times people you know, especially those on Instagram, who reached out sneering think behavior is like yelling and kicking and screaming and we have this really negative connotation to behavior. But behavior is literally everything. Like me eating as a type of behavior, which is a hard concept for people to start to understand and kind of reconstruct in their mind how they think about behavior. But communication is a huge, like principle that we've worked on in ABA. Giving kids a modality to communicate and then the question comes like, well, then what speech language for? And there's, I think the approach is very similar and tons and tons and tons of SLPs are getting their hours to become certified BCBAs. Like, it's super common to meet an SLP who also has a BCBA because it their strategies are so aligned with ABA work that that they say like, well, I Why wouldn't I have both credentials. And so, we just use positive reinforcement to basically say like to replace behavior of you know, if it is an unwanted behavior of kicking or screaming or anything of the sort. Then we want to teach the child how to replace that and to do so in a positive manner.
Rachel:Gotcha.
Jessica:Well, and before we start recording, you mentioned, you know, visual schedules as being, you know, a way of ABA.
Whitney:Yeah, I mean, it's there's so much to ABA, you know, visual schedules, preventative measures to prevent the behavior from happening, to I mean, there's, like, I think about my son Kyson, right now we're using a token board for him. The A lot of times, you might hear like grandma's principle, the Premack Principle, which is, first you get, do this, and then you do that, and then you get this. Which I know, even from what I've watched from, from you guys on the sensory project is, you know, you, you can design a visual schedule, so the kids have structure and know exactly what they're doing and the expectation. So that's a lot of ABA, too and what is so funny as you can walk into a gen-ed classroom, and they have ABA principles everywhere. I mean, you think about a whole group contingent token economy, right? Like, maybe they're earning something as a whole class, and then you have individual reinforcement systems. So really, it's just it's getting kids motivated. It's getting kids to learn new ways of behaving.
Jessica:So then, what about the idea that like, we want to teach our kids to be intrinsically motivated versus motivated by outside factors?
Whitney:Yeah. So that's a very common question. I actually just wrote a post about this. But they're with reinforcement, there's always a plan to fade out reinforcement. If there's no plan to fade out, reinforcement, switch your BCBA. But there should always be a plan in place, but what parents don't realize is how long it takes, especially depending on the skill, how long the behavior has been there, you know, what specifically, specifically you're trying to work on with a child is going to be completely dependent on that fading process. It is not going to happen overnight. You know, so it could be six months a year before you even start fading out. I call it the pyramid of reinforcement is not like the technical term by any means. But basically, depending on the kiddo you always start with like edibles, which yes is super controversy.
Jessica:Oh, wait, hang on. I'm sorry. Did you say edibles?
Whitney:Yes.
Jessica:So my brain went there, I couldn't help but.
Whitney:like, like in my classroom, just something super whatever was motivating for the kid. You know, goldfish, or graham crackers, gummy anything you could like cut into the small pieces to immediately give them and I use a lot of edibles.
Jessica:As long as listeners know what we mean is fine.
Whitney:The classroom because it's immediate reinforcement and then once the kiddo is ready to kind of graduate, if you will, from edibles and you go to tangibles. And so then they might be earning time on the iPad, and then you would structure the iPad time, right? Because, you know, like, I would set a two minute timer or, you know, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, whatever it might be and then from there, it becomes praise. So at the very top of the pyramid is praise, and that's a great job, buddy and they find that motivating. And then at that point, you fade out the praise. And hopefully, it's become that intrinsic motivation because I'm not getting any edibles or tangibles and praise is here and there. But really not doing it on my own.
Rachel:Okay, so that can take a long time to get to.
Whitney:Oh, so long.
Rachel:Honestly, you have kids don't get to that point?
Whitney:Yes, well, and you have to take in kind of like cognitive. What, what word am I looking for?
Rachel:They have to be cognitively aware to understand, you know, I have to wipe my butt even though I'm not getting an edible afterwards, you know. But it's a process that then we're not going to get there.
Whitney:Exactly and age and again, like the behavior you're working on. But I will say even with my kiddos like, I wouldn't ever underestimate any individual with special needs, because I have a lot of kiddos with, you know, really significant and severe needs when I was a teacher and a lot of them, you know, got to the tangible part. A lot of them enjoy the praise part, you know, especially if it's a sensory piece. Oh my gosh, I would like kids that go jump on the trampoline, you know, like, there's just a lot of different ways and as they grow and mature, especially learning those behaviors, like, you know. If you're teaching a kid how to communicate, that's gonna take a long time anyway. But what they end up learning is communication within itself can be reinforcing because they're getting what they're asking for, which is super reinforcing. Which we call manding in the ABA world,
Jessica:You call it manding?
Whitney:Uh huh. Yeah. Manding is requesting. So like, for kiddos who are completely nonverbal, you start with mandating, and you use highly preferred items, and you have instructor control over those items. And, basically, you know, if they're on a device, if they're using pecs with, which is picture exchange system, there's a lot like a visual schedule that use it for communication. And the kid. There's, there's specific ways you're supposed to teach pecs, but I always tell parents, like some communication is better than none. And so obviously, you know, you probably have to start hand over hand, giving the picture over and then as soon as they give you, whatever the highly preferred item picture as then you'll immediately give them the item, which serves as a reinforcer to continue doing that. So it's called behavior momentum. You're like, getting kids to continually asking or requesting things in this scenario. So as soon as they give you that picture, or they tap, you know, the word on their iPad, whatever it might be, you immediately give them that item, that highly preferred item, and it serves as a reinforcer, which then that behavior momentum, they want to do it more and more and more, and you end up generalizing it with more items.
Rachel:It sounds so technical.
Whitney:It's very technical, which is why I'm so intimidated by all your questions. Oh, my gosh, I have to like go study.
Jessica:Well, no. And I think it's so similar to like, sensory integration techniques, because it's all backed by research, you know.
Whitney:All of it, every single thing. Yeah. And I will say, and then I'll just address it. But ABA was viewed as like, like some people think it can be abusive, or, you know, making kids into robots and I can't say what it was 20 years ago, I didn't work in this field. But here's what I know. I know that I would never, ever sign up for something that would put a child in danger. I would never, ever use, you know, like, I've been doing ABA strategies and interventions with my son since he was six months old. I never once would I, you know, do Interesting. That's a good idea. something like that to my own child, if that were the case. I am there. The ABA field has come so far and I I always like to use the analogy of, you know, like when my grandma was a child, where were the majority of individuals with special needs. Most likely they were locked up in an institutional facility and that was it and ABA is no different. I mean, as, as we've learned more as we grow in the community of special needs, you know, there's just more education, there's more research. You know, individuals with special needs are living longer now and so an ABA has, it's not like ABA just stopped growing and 20 years ago, ya know. And so there's a lot of ethical laws. So I was actually I was thinking about this last night and I'll even tell my followers, those two, which I haven't yet, but there's an ethical code book that anybody can buy and so if you're really worried or nervous about getting your kiddo started in ABA start there. Because if you know those ethical codes, not only might it calm some of your nerves, but then you will know like, if it's appropriate or not of what they're doing and then you can call them out. Because you'll have, you'll have their ethical codes. That'd be that's like, I think right now it's between 45 and 50 bucks, which is a little on the expensive side on Amazon. You could probably buy used, but it's literally you just look up BCBA ethical codes, and they're all there. It's basically a really long contract. Because any contract should be outlining the majority of those ethical codes, and they protect the family, the BCBA, I mean, they protect everybody.
Rachel:Okay.
Whitney:So if anyone if you're aware of, and you feel like one of them, you know, a code is being breached, then it's at least worth a conversation to someone.
Rachel:Yeah. So like, on that note, how can parents find like, a, quote unquote, good ABA therapist?
Whitney:Yeah, so it's hard because I feel like there's a lot of, even from when I graduated, which was only like, three years ago, so much in that field has already changed again.Like we have a new ethical codebook. We have just, they just keep revamping things to keep the family and child safe and one of the biggest things, though, is a BCBA has to have a master's degree. So you're going to look for that. Look for their education. What is their background and how long have they been working? For me, this is total preference. The majority of ABA clinics happen to be more franchise now and solely just because of insurance. Insurance won't cover BCBAs to do private practice, for a number of reasons, but I ended up being able to find like a small local clinic for our son, that was covered by insurance. So it also just depends on your insurance too. A good, and I picked it. So there were, I think there were like 27 to 30 sheets of like, when we printed it out of clinics that I could choose from. It listed every BCBA in the surrounding area and I got to page like 17 or 18 before finding the clinic and I can say personally, I was looking for a small, I was looking for. For me, it's unique because I'm in the field and so I needed someone who was gonna be willing to work with my craziness of knowing just all the things and and you can tell a lot by website. Like I'm sorry to say that, but I mean, I looked up so many places that I thought would be a good fit and if your website is crap, like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna just you. You don't you obviously don't take what you're doing serious. Like, I don't care if everyone has time. Like, if it's important to you make time so and then walk throughs. I mean, different with COVID right now. Some people are still doing walkthroughs depending on the state you live in, or even like the county you live in at this point. Some places are doing like zoom walkthroughs, which is an option and I tell parents, you'll just know, like you will just know your gut will tell you. You know, it's like choosing any other therapy. I always compare it to, you know, we don't all look for the same thing in a pediatrician, right? So we're not all gonna look for the same thing and BCBA and it's the same thing with teachers too. Like, you know, sometimes we dive more with some teachers and other teachers and it's the same thing with a BCBA. You'll know when you find the right facility.
Rachel:Let's take a quick break and talk about the sponsor for today's episode, Harkla. Like we said earlier, they make high quality products, things like sensory swings, weighted blankets, lap pads, compression sheets, body socks, all the things you guys know we love.
Jessica:So we had the chance to try out a few of their products, like one of their swings and weighted blankets, and they are definitely top shelf. You guys, their products are great and yeah, you can go buy a sensory swing on Amazon. But when you purchase it from Harkless you know where your money is going.
Rachel:If you're a therapist looking for new products. If
Jessica:Okay, we're gonna get back to the episode. But stay you're a parent and you need some new equipment for your tuned, because at the end of the episode, we're gonna give you a kiddo,. Whoever you are, you guys have to check these guys out. ASAP. code for a discount with these guys.
Rachel:Now, don't ABAs come to your house too?
Whitney:Yes. So and with COVID, you know, it's different everywhere. Yes. So for example, our son, he is starting 15 hours ABA. There's a lot of research that backs 40 hours a week for ABA. What I tell parents to that is like, again, use your gut. How old is your kid? What are the skills are they working on? Are they in other therapies? Are they in school? Like there's so much to consider. Don't ever feel like, you need to be a statistic, I guess. Because your child is a child and you know, you can ours are flexible. So that's what I would say to that. But it so placement as far as like, in home or in clinic, or in school, is totally based on assessment observations. All those types of things and for our son, right now, it's most appropriate to have it in home because that's where we struggled on most with him and in school for social reasons. So we really want to help him socially and school interact with his peers and his teachers. And they did two observations in school, one observation in home, and I'm observation and clinic before anything, any hours, or any placement got decided. And so that would be my other kind of thing to think about is, you know, what assessments are they doing? How are they trying to determine ours? You know, there's thoroughness. I guess, like, for me, the more thorough they are, the better like I feel. I feel like they're understanding our family and our needs, and meeting Kyson where he's at and he's not just going to be another client, I guess.
Rachel:Another paycheck. Yeah.
Jessica:Yeah, absolutely. So then I'm curious, what kinds of like, can you tell us about his ABA therapy and kind of give us a rundown of what it looks like?
Whitney:I wish I knew because COVID. So we just started this and I don't have to get all the way into it. But I had a really hard time letting go and admitting like, Okay, another BCBA needs to come in and help our family. Because I thought that I I'm like, I'm the one who has all this education. Like, I can do it.
Rachel:That's exactly how I would be.
Jessica:It'd be like, No, I can do it with my kid. But oh, my gosh, no.
Whitney:No, and so once we moved back to Colorado, I grew up in Colorado, and so we're at home, and my family's here and just, I think just being home and feeling safe here. I was like, Okay, I he needs to have someone else come in. And I have talked to a few other moms in similar positions who have the same degree and certificate. Their kiddo has autism and she said, you know, it just takes a lot of pressure off of having to do those things. So all that to say, I was taking it upon myself the past few years to be Kyson's therapists and mom, and so it was only, maybe two months ago, that we decided to get Kyson back into all of his therapy. So he actually just started speech therapy again, OT and feeding therapy, and speech, OT and feeding therapy are all going. They've all started except ABA. It just takes longer because insurance. There's more to do with insurance, like insurance really digs deep into looking at goals for the kiddo and placement and so they actually had concerns about not having enough. They they didn't understand why we wanted therapy in Kyson school. for so many hours and so our BCBA and this is why I loved her because I didn't have to do anything like she just took it upon herself to have these conversations with insurance and escuse me. And so, you know, we had to do amendments and all of that. And all that to be said, we haven't started, because it's just such a process. So and now, she actually I just got an email before talking with you both and she asked if the I guess one thing we should notice BCBA is do all the evaluation work, they do all of the kind of analyzing the data, writing of the goals, the interventions, but they aren't the ones who actually work with the kiddo So the ones who actually work with the kiddo, implementing the interventions that the BCBA has designed, is called a RBT, which is a registered behavior technician. And again, like, there's a funnel, so RBTs, they go through a training, and they don't. They have to have a minimum of a high school degree. So it's kind of like a para, if you think of it that way and so for me, that was my other holdup. I was like, Why in the world am I going to be paying out of pocket for someone who, you know, could or could not have any education in behavior analysis to come and work with my kid? Sounds horrible, but that's just where I was at at the time and so when looking, I keep jumping back to when you're looking for a good ABA facility or clinic. But another thing to think about is, how are they training the RBT's, you know. What certifications are they going through? For our clinic, all of the RBTs have at least an undergraduate degree, which I love. I love knowing that at least they were pursuing something in the world of special ed. Because it's not the case everywhere and then I also ask questions like, well, you know, how often will you be coming over to model the BCBA to come over to our house to model the interventions to get to Kyson? Because that's the other thing of interventions aren't being you know, given in the in the right manner, like it's gonna have a huge impact on everyone. So really, a lot of it comes down to how well does your BCBA train RBTs. So for Kyson to answer that question in home, we're going to be working on transitions, flexibility, acceptance of no, and independent play.
Rachel:Okay.
Whitney:And then in school, it'll be a lot of it's actually really shocking to me, when her observations came back, and I read them, but she said that he only Kyson is verbal. But he only requested like, once an hour to the teacher. I was like ohh. So they're gonna be working a lot with him on that social skills piece, and, and sensory piece, because I guess he does not sit still ever.
Rachel:Oh, man.
Whitney:That's what they will be doing in school.
Rachel:That's good to know. I didn't realize that the BCBAs weren't the ones working with the kids. It's kind of like OTs, oftentimes the OTS will do the examination, and then the COTAs will carry out the treatment plan.
Whitney:And yes, and so when I was becoming a BCBA, or going through school, I should say, it wasn't quite there yet. Like BCBAs were still able to work one on one with the kids and now with all of the growth that ABA has made, it's just not that way anymore. Which kind of broke my heart because that's, that's what I wanted to do. I'm like, no, no, like, I want to work one on one and I still can right now. I'm just mom.
Rachel:You're not just mom, you are supermom,
Whitney:I am mom. Yes, I hope somehow I will be in the field working actively again at some point.
Jessica:Just takes time.
Whitney:Yes, yes.
Jessica:Um, so then can we talk about who can benefit from ABA?
Whitney:Anybody? So there's this big misconception that only autism like only kids with autism can But literally, like I said, in the beginning, you know, there are tactics and strategies being used in the gen-ed classrooms and teachers don't even know it. And so when I was a teacher, we would do these basically trainings during staff meetings about ABA and what to expect, and because a lot of our kids were included in the gen-ed classrooms, and, and a lot of women would be like, Oh, we're already doing that, like, we already have a visual schedule out, you know. Like, you walk into an elementary school class gen-ed classroom, and you see tons of visuals everywhere. Like, that's a preventative strategy, you know, and so just because we're not labeling it ABA, and it's not, you know. Teaching a kid to communicate doesn't mean that the strategies and principles and tactics aren't there.
Rachel:So there isn't one specific, like, quote, unquote, diagnosis that qualifies for ABA. Okay.
Whitney:No, and actually, I a lot more. So I think it started with autism because, you know, even five years ago, it was like the great unknown. Like, how do we teach these kids? How do we, you know, how do we help them through some of these really difficult behaviors? That's from experience and so I think that it just kind of got tied to autism, if you will. But I know tons of individuals with Down syndrome, you know, all sorts of disabilities that access ABA, not just autism.
Rachel:Okay. Well, that's good to know,
Jessica:How would you know if ABA would be right for your child?
Whitney:A really great question. A lot of times it comes down to, you know, OTs, SLPs, PTs, knowing about ABA. So this is why this is so good. Because a lot of times, if your kiddo doesn't have autism, it's not an automatic, like, oh, they should be an ABA and so the more that we can educate people who are working with other individuals with special needs, the better. And so I would say, looking for, you know, are you having a difficult time getting through a session, because you're because the kiddo is not compliant, or having a difficult time with transitions, or doesn't have a communication system or, you know, like, the list goes on and on and on. A lot of it comes down to would the kiddo benefit from like positive reinforcement strategies to get them new tools to replace some of those more challenging behaviors?
Rachel:Does ABA work on like, stimming, at all?
Whitney:So, you know, I would say it's starting to. I wouldn't
Rachel:So good.
Whitney:Yeah. So I mean, it's just it's, it's the team. It's say it's completely there. I think that the more research because ABA is like, it's all about research. They are educating each other on, you know, what, what does an SLP do? scientists, and they love their research. They're gonna go by what research says and so as more research comes out about stimming and how important it is for kiddos with autism, I think the approach is different. I think that as for many, like, you know, because we didn't understand it, there was this drive of like, you know, why are you doing that? You don't need to do that and now it's completely flipped again. Which is exactly how, you know, the trend of special needs goes just we are continually learning more. It's definitely more. It's not handled the same way. I would say. For for me, I can only speak for me, like, I get this question all the time and I learned from you and that's the other thing is like, we have to learn from other professionals. We don't have, you know, we have to connect all of these therapies together to really support the individua and so, you know, if, like, a lot of times I get the question I have, you know, so and so is stimming, and it's interfering with getting their schoolwork done. So then it's like, okay, well, what is the function of there's stimming? But then how do you deal with, they still have to get through their work, and so how can we use both in order to and I think that's where you're, you know, if you're working in a school or a clinic, a lot of ABA clinics now actually have OTs and SLPs within the ABA clinics. So that kiddo can get all of their services in one place and so I think it just takes for me when I was an educator, I mean, I talk to our OT and SLP all the time. And how can they help you through whatever communication block this might be, but also still using ABA strategies? And same thing with OT?
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:Well, and I love that ABA comes into your home, so that there's that parent education component, too.
Whitney:And so that's become a huge, a huge part of ABA and being a BCBA is this whole parent training, because I think that it was a huge piece that was laging. And I saw that three years ago, which is kind of when I started parent consults. And my I mean, my whole Instagram page was because parents just didn't know. I mean, they don't have the education. I mean, imagine that you're both professionals in the field, and you don't know about ABA, you know and so you imagine a parent who may or may not have signed up for this, and may or may not have, you know, an education in special ed or a similar profession. And so they having parents come in, and a lot of clinics are starting to do like monthly parent trainings, to just get them on the same page. Because I will say, you will see the most improvements and effects from your ABA therapy, if you're implementing what they're doing in ABA. Whether it's they're, they're coming into your home to do it, or, you know, you think about tooth brushing and hair brushing and toileting, and all of these different things and if you're not following through with what they're doing at therapy, as a parent, it's likely going to be very difficult for your child because as far as we know about autism, they need consistency. They live off of routine, and structure, and consistency. And if you're being inconsistent, and these really big behavior modifications, then we're, it's, it's going to take even longer to see progress and improvements. And a lot of times it's not the parents fault. I mean, they feel overwhelmed. I mean, with all of the education I have, I had to take Kyson out of therapy, because I felt overwhelmed and it just happens. I mean, it's just part of being a special needs parents, regardless of any background you have. And so the more training we can give parents in all areas of therapy, the more education we can give them, the more support we can give them even down to like creating visual schedules and loving the parent use that in the house, but teach them teach them how to use it first and then and then let like, let them have it. Because sometimes, I know even for me, I know how to make a visual schedule. But at points in your parenting a special needs child, it's just overwhelming. You know, like, those little tasks seems so monumental, it's like, I have no time to do that. So having someone else come in, do it for you, leave it with you, and you have the education of how to use it, it's just it's such a relief, and then you'll be more likely to see progress with your kiddo.
Jessica:I love everything you just said.
Rachel:Well, I, I think that's where OT lacks in a way, you know. Early intervention is great because the therapists come into your home and work with you and the kiddo. But at least here in Idaho, it's like once every two weeks, like it's not enough to make a difference. But as soon as kids start coming to the clinic, you know, it's great, we've got all this equipment but the parents don't have that at home. So how can they carry over what we're doing at the clinic at home, you know.
Whitney:Totally. Well and so we actually stopped ot in Tennessee for that exact reason. I was like this is not benefiting anyone and so it actually took me a while to be like, is this gonna be worth it? And it's it we found the right like I said, like ABA, OT, SLP like you just know when you find the right clinic in Tennessee, I mean they weren't letting him do any sort of like sensory. I don't know the right words ,you can correct me, but like accessing any sort of gym. He literally sat in a room and that's it. And I just I was like this is not okay, and and I just I didn't know enough about it. But I just knew the little that I knew I was like, this is not benefiting anyone; whereas, the clinic he's in now, I mean, he spends 30 plus minutes in a gym working on fun obstacles and I only know that because of everything you showed. But if you wouldn't have shown that I would be like, okay, like, what is the purpose of all of this? But now I can use cool words like proprioception and be like, oh, yeah, that's like heavy work and, but that's what I mean is like, as a BCBA, it's so wonderful for me to know, and identify what someone else in the field is doing. And, but that is like the now test and I are like, trying to budget okay, this is what, you know, he's really accessing and loving, in the OT gym, like, how can we help make that for the basement, you know. Because that we see the same thing, like I see the huge, he's a totally different kid, on days, we go to OT. Man, like, if only we could have this, but it's costly, you know. It's some of the things we just can't access, because we're not a practice, you know. But I think you do a great job at making the things that aren't accessible to parents accessible in creative ways, you know, like using what you have at home.
Rachel:And that's definitely been one of our goals. And that's one of the things that we noticed that was lacking, at least in our clinic was, number one, her education of telling parents, like, Hey, this is what we're doing. And this is why we're doing it. And then also, okay, we've got all this fancy equipment, but go home and do this, this, and this, and it will simulate that basically. Well, let's talk about, let's see, I really want people to connect with you and take advantage of not only your Instagram, which is super helpful, but I know you're about to have a kid, your second kid. So you might not be doing your consults, but how can they learn from you.
Whitney:So my webs so they can go to my Instagram, that's pretty much the largest handle that I use, the behavior compass. and my website is under construction right now just because I'm revamping everything for when I become certified. For when I can sit for the exam, and become a BCBA. I kind of stopped parent consults, because I just felt like I just wanted to get that credential under me for logistic purposes. So I mean, as soon as I get that underway, then my website will be active again and parent consults are open for business, but just not yet. But definitely emails. I get lots and lots of emails, mostly I get questions, like just guidance questions from parents, you know, send me any worries or concerns. I mean, I get questions from we're in ABA, is this normal, to we are really nervous. I want to be open to ABA, but I don't know how so like, I get a gamut of questions, just even on DMS on Instagram. Love, so just send me anything. I'm here to help.
Jessica:Perfect, what's one piece of advice that you can give to our listeners?
Whitney:Don't be scared. Don't be scared of ABA. It's really important that we do listen to adults, who have autism, but we also need to be really careful and over generalizing their experiences. Using their experiences to educate ourselves, but not to hold us back from doing something that could be really life changing for your kiddo. Because it's not ABA is not what it was 20 years ago.
Rachel:Well, Whitney, thanks so much for being here.
Whitney:Your welcome. I hope it was helpful.
Jessica:No, this was a great conversation and you're I'm so excited to see what else you do. And when you open your clinic, let us know.
Whitney:Thank you. Well, I'm excited. It's gonna happen. Thank you guys.
Rachel:Yes. We will talk to you later. Okay, my dear.
Whitney:All right. See ya. Bye.
Jessica:All right, you guys. Hopefully you gained some good information from this episode. I know that I learned a lot. I really enjoyed this conversation and it really opened my eyes to a lot of things and again, like I said before, whether you are for or against ABA therapy, just take it in and use what you want from it.
Rachel:Yeah, and I think every kiddos situation is so unique and so different that you know, maybe one family can benefit from it, another family it's not for them. But we've heard great things about ABA, not only from Whitney, but from, you know, other families that we've met online as well. So take it with a grain of salt. Let us know your thoughts. We are super interested to hear what you guys think about not only this episode, but just ABA in general. So feel free to share that with us.
Jessica:We would love it if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Make sure you are following us on Instagram. You can message us, comment on our posts, all the things. Let us know how you're doing and we will talk to you next week.
Rachel:Okay, bye. All right, you guys. One last reminder, this episode was sponsored by Harkla, our newest favorite sensory product company. With less opportunity for movement in today's virtual world and with how much we love obstacle courses, this company is the perfect place to shop for equipment to set up bomb obstacle courses.
Jessica:Okay, so if you're unfamiliar with obstacle courses, let's give you an example. You can use Harklas indoor therapy swing and your child can swing on their stomach to gather an item such as a puzzle piece. Then climb out and jump across a pillow bridge while in their Harkla sensory body sock and place their puzzle piece on the board then do a wheelbarrow walk. Super simple, super fun and so many benefits.
Rachel:So you guys are ready to check them out. Go to Harkla.co/sensory and you can save 10% on any of their products by using the code of sensory.
Jessica:We will link this in the show notes in case it's easier for you to have it in writing and that's it.
Rachel:We are so excited to work together to help create confident kids all over the world and work towards a happier, healthier life. Just a friendly reminder this is general information related to occupational therapy, pediatrics, and sensory integration. We do not know you or your child; therefore we do not know any specific. Therefore you should always refer back to your pediatrician and occupational therapist for more information.