This episode is an incredible conversation with Rachel McFedries - Rachel is passionate about helping parents of children ages birth - 7 years balance screen time and play time. Because parenting these days can feel overwhelming and energy-draining, screens can become the “easy” answer. As a result, some children are experiencing more screen time than ever before.
Rachel’s passion began 4 years ago with the birth of her third child - she was really struggling to limit screen time for her other children. That’s when she realized how little support exists for parents in regards to screen time.
Since then, she has combined her education and knowledge in Early Childhood Development with her professional experience as a mental health and addictions Occupational Therapist to help her own family balance screen time and play time while also helping other families around the world!
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products, child development courses, and The Harkla Sensory Club.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
This episode is an incredible conversation with Rachel McFedries - Rachel is passionate about helping parents of children ages birth - 7 years balance screen time and play time. Because parenting these days can feel overwhelming and energy-draining, screens can become the “easy” answer. As a result, some children are experiencing more screen time than ever before.
Rachel’s passion began 4 years ago with the birth of her third child - she was really struggling to limit screen time for her other children. That’s when she realized how little support exists for parents in regards to screen time.
Since then, she has combined her education and knowledge in Early Childhood Development with her professional experience as a mental health and addictions Occupational Therapist to help her own family balance screen time and play time while also helping other families around the world!
Brought To You By Harkla
This podcast is brought to you by Harkla. Our mission at Harkla is to help those with special needs live happy and healthy lives. We accomplish this through high-quality sensory products, child development courses, and The Harkla Sensory Club.
Podcast listeners get 10% off their first order at Harkla with the discount code "sensory". Head to Harkla.co/sensory to start shopping now.
Welcome to the sensory project show with Rachel and Jessica. We're here to share all things sensory, occupational therapy, parenting, self care and overall health and wellness from the therapists perspective, providing raw, honest, fun ideas and strategies for parents and families to implement into daily life. Thank you so much for joining us. Today's episode is sponsored by Harkla, a company that makes high quality products for everyday use. This includes sensory and therapy equipment, and products as well as supplements. The owners, Casey and Amelia, are local Boise which make this even cooler for us since they're local to us.
Jessica:Harkla is a company on a mission. They donate 1% of each month's sales to the University of Washington Autism Center, which funds cutting edge research and sponsored scholarships for children with autism to attend a summer camp.
Rachel:Stay tuned to hear more later in the episode as well as to get a special discount.
Jessica:Okay, let's get started.
Rachel:Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the sensory project show. This is episode 136.
Jessica:And we are Rachel and Jessica, thank you so much for being here. If you're new welcome. If you are one of our lifers, we're so excited to have you back. Today we are talking with Rachel. She's an occupational therapist from New Zealand.
Rachel:And Rachel's goal on Instagram primarily is to help parents of preschoolers holistically balanced screens and play. And so we learned a ton of information from her today. And we're really excited to share everything that she has created and all of her knowledge with you guys today.
Jessica:It's a really fun conversation. So let's jump in.
Rachel McFedries:I am so excited to see you guys.
Jessica:Yes!
Rachel McFedries:I feel like I know you from Instagram, you know. It's so awesome.
Rachel:I know, I feel the same way. It's so funny when you meet someone like online after talking to them on the internet. It's like, Oh, I already know you.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, funny that.
Jessica:It's perfect. Well, we're really happy that you're here talking to us, almost in real life.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah. So that's exciting times.
Jessica:Okday, so we have five secret questions to ask you before we talk about all the other things.
Rachel:Yes.
Rachel McFedries:Classic.
Rachel:All right, the first one, would you rather rake leaves all day or carve pumpkins all day?
Rachel McFedries:I'm definitely like to rake leaves. That gives me better satisfaction to clear out the environment.
Rachel:There you go. I love it.
Jessica:I said the the raking the leaves as well, because I don't I feel like I would just get really bored of carving pumpkins all day.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, and it's like, a bit messy. You know? Yeah.
Rachel:I couldn't decide. I still I don't know. I don't know what I would do. I'm just gonna not not decide,
Jessica:Oh, you're not going to participate?
Rachel:No.
Jessica:Okay, or second question for you is what is something that not very many people know about you?
Rachel McFedries:Oh, what is something that not very many people know about me? Well, before I did my occupational therapy training, I actually did a diploma in therapeutic in sports massage as well. I never worked as a massage therapists because I found it quite hard on my body.
Rachel:I've heard of that.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. So not many people know that about me. But it's just one of those things I've gotten tacked on to my belt, but I've never actually used in practice.
Rachel:But you have the education to do it should the situation arise.
Rachel McFedries:Absolutely. Yeah. brings another layer.
Jessica:That's true. That's true.
Rachel:All right. Next question. What is the first thing that you do when you wake up in the morning?
Rachel McFedries:Oh, well, I'd like to say I go and have a lovely breakfast with my kids. But I don't I don't I go on my phone.
Jessica:Like the one thing that we're told not to do, right?
Rachel McFedries:And, you know, my husband and I have quite a good like co-parenting, you know, we share the load quite a lot. So breakfast is his duty with the kids and it's been like that for a long time. Because you know, I've been a stay at home moms for years before and so I was kind of like, well, I just spend all day with them darling. How you do breakfast and then I can come after okay, my shower and I'm feeling like I can parent really well.
Jessica:I like it. Good. Good. Yeah. Okay, next question. If you could travel anywhere with money not being an issue, where would you go?
Rachel McFedries:Ah, that is an amazing question. Um, so my heart just, you know, we know down the bottom of the world and it's quite cold where we are. So we get those Antartic winds that blow up straight into our town here in Christchurch and so London is going somewhere hot around the equator. I don't know like the Greek islands, you know, with those view blue, beautiful blue seas.
Jessica:Yes.
Rachel:So do you guys have a summer? Like, what's the warmest that it gets?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah, we do. We have four quite clear seasons here in the South Island of New Zealand and it's really lovely because you know, the seasons are very defined with that beautiful autumn fall and then but in winter, it doesn't snow much in Christchurch. Have you ever engaged but we get very, very cold winds, which is not that nice.
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:Maybe this is a silly question. But are you, what season are you in now? I'm like, I feel like our seasons are probably different. Right? What season are you in right now?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, so I think we're just the opposite to you. So we are in spring, almost about to get into summer.
Jessica:Okay. You are opposite of us. That's so weird.
Rachel:That's crazy.
Jessica:It's so weird.
Rachel:I need to get out more.
Jessica:So weird.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. So we have that thing about Christmas is in the middle of summer and so we have the warm Christmas, which I know is quite an odd concept for lots of people from the northern hemisphere, right?
Jessica:Yeah. Oh, interesting.
Rachel:Oh, there has it still October. Right? It's I mean, you could consider it October? But it's just spring, October spring, and April is fall.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah. I've actually always wanted to have a snowy christmas or white christmas. I've never had a white christmas. It's on my bucket list as well.
Jessica:Yeah. Come to Boise, Idaho, and you will?
Rachel McFedries:Definitely yeah.
Rachel:And then we'll come visit you in the summertime, which is the winter.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, that sounds perfect. Just like an endless year long of summer anyway. Traveling the world having a year long of summer is actually quite a dream of mine.
Jessica:Chasing summer.
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:Oh, that's like my dream life.
Rachel:Yeah, it is. She's a big travel bug. I'm not as into I mean, I would like to but I'm not good at it. I pack too heavy. I get too nervous flying.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, fair. Anyway, so total dream at the moment anyway, is it isn't it? So yeah, it's just so stay at home?
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:All right, we have one more question.
Rachel McFedries:Okay.
Rachel:Our favorite question, what is your sensory quirk?
Rachel McFedries:Oh, yeah, true. My sensory quirk? Well, um, I really am struggling with loud noises in a moment, which as a mom of four is quite hard to handle.
Rachel:Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:So I have to be quite aware of that and just make sure I do, you know, take my time away. Self care as a mom, and be able to handle the day in a way that doesn't set me off and trigger me with my kids.
Rachel:Yes. Good for you for recognizing that though.
Jessica:Totally.
Rachel McFedries:I think it was kind of like, well, it doesn't really make me much of a fun mom because I don't really take them to like big shows or you know, those kind of like big agricultural shows or fun theaters and stuff like that, because it's such a sensory overwhelming environment for me, but you know, that's okay. They can, they're still young, they really need much of that at the moment.
Rachel:Absolutely. So now that everyone knows all of your deepest, darkest secrets, tell us what you do, why you do it, how you do it, all the things?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, so you know, you would have heard or read in the intro, I'm an occupational therapist. I'm also a mom of four and my background in occupational therapy is in mental health and addictions. So I, as a mum am quite aware of our screen time and how addicting it is for children, but also for adults, you know, us as parents as well. And so when I had my children, I really struggled to maintain that balance of play time and screen time for them. And I think as a health professional that really weighed on me because I was very much aware of what the evidence shows for screen time for kids, and also as an OT, what the amazing benefits of play are. And just realizing that you know, the more time they spend on screens, the less time they spend in play, and I feel like there wasn't a lot of support. So I've made it my mission to provide that practical support for parents and I do that by sharing lots of information about play and how to extend play for your children and how to understand play in the home environment. And then as a result of that, it means tha we're less reliant on screens.
Rachel:Yes, which I think is such an important topic. We've done a podcast episode on screen time. But we haven't talked with anyone who, you know, is so committed to this area and can really shed light on how important it is to just, and we'll talk about this a little bit more, but just, you know, kind of transition away from screens and find that balance.
Rachel McFedries:Hmm, yeah. And it isn't, it isn't balance. And I don't feel like it's helpful to say to parents, you know, like, just have no screen time, because it's kind of not really realistic.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:Or just turn off the TV or just take the iPad away, because then you get the whole resulting out downs. And so how do parents deal with that and how do we support parents to deal with that? And it detox period for children? Because it is a detox? Because it's an addiction, really, isn't it?
Jessica:Yeah, totally.
Rachel:Let's talk, let's talk a little bit more about that, and the addiction and how how long kids should be on the screens, and what that detox looks like.
Rachel McFedries:So, you know, the evidence is quite clear and that for preschoolers, especially from the, you know, newborn to age five, that the more screen time that I have, the worse health outcomes they have, you know. It's really quite clear that they spend more time at the doctor's, more time with incidences of illness, they have a higher risk of obesity, you know. I'm not saying that your kids will, you know, their race today. But it's just, it's just being aware of those of those actual health outcomes that have shown in the literature for the ages zero to five. And so you know, there's quite clear guidelines from governments around the world, including the ministry of health care in New Zealand, and also the American Academy of Pediatrics and they say, you know, no screen time, for under two years. It's very clear, as well as an hour in New Zealand for age 082, to five, sorry, and up to two hours, is what the American Academy of Pediatrics say, for their guidelines. But yeah, so the detox period, as is real with that, when you are transitioning away from screens, and it requires a lot of energy, as a parent to be able to handle that to be able to give your children the connection that they need, because they're connecting with the screen, and they're going to be wanting to connect with you and because that's the primary form of attachment, you're their primary form of attachment. And the detox period does take a while, you know, and I don't like to give like actual days or weeks or anything like that, because it totally depends on the on the family, and how much energy they have to put into this particular lifestyle change.
Jessica:It is so interesting, because we all know, we've all heard, you know, about the research of how it affects our brains, and the different chemicals that are released, when we're on a screen and why it's addicting because of those chemicals.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And I am, you know, it was that dopamine hit that we get when we're on screens. As as parents, you know, we are so aware of it, you know, with the old Facebook Live data and, and notifications. And that's what's happening in our brains with them with the chemical release of dopamine, the feel good factor. And it's quite scary for us as parents, and I know that, you know, for this particular age range that we're talking about. For preschoolers, they're not necessarily getting that same kind of way. They don't go and strive for the Facebook likes and all that kind of stuff, because they're not on Facebook, preschoolers. But there is the fact that there's YouTube and we're letting our kids constantly watched the, the recurring Netflix videos, and you know, these programs have been designed to keep us on screens. And so as parents, it is very easy to just be like, Oh, well, just another 20 minutes of Daniel Tiger or whatever, that is hard to break that cycle.
Rachel:I actually just watched the social dilemma on Netflix.
Rachel McFedries:Yes.
Rachel:And says, Oh my gosh, it blows my mind of how these companies, these big companies are literally like, just messing with our minds so much and you don't think about it unless you take a step back and actually look at it and say, oh my gosh. I tap my phone to see if there's any notifications however many times a day like us, you thrive on those notifications, and I have mine all turned off because I'm like, I don't want to see him. I don't want to I don't want that in my mind and so I just thought that little snippet of adults and social media is so eye opening that it's probably worse for kids.
Jessica:I even think about with adults too, is like, how many of us take our phone into the bathroom? When we go to the bathroom? Right? Because we like can't be away from it. Right?
Rachel:Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah, it is, it is quite sobering, isn't it? And I don't feel like it needs to be approached by a place of fear for us as parents with our children. I feel like it needs to be approached from a places of being informed and actually making informed decisions because as parents, you know, we all want the best for our kids. But it's so hard to navigate about what is the actual evidence and what is the actual advice and guidelines that are coming out about it. And teenagers are a whole different ballgame, you know. Like they're being given phones, which is fine, because they need to keep in contact with their friends, or whatever and so that's a whole different kettle of fish and the evidence isn't quite as clear about the length of time that teenagers. I don't like to say should but the guidelines around the amount of hours per day, but you know, for the younger age group, I feel like is very clear with the evidence and parents need a lot of support in this time. Because it's really, really hard to be a parent of preschoolers, they're really intense and we are, where's that support? Where is that practical support around, being able to set up the home environment for play? Being able to look after your own self care while you are detoxing your children from screens,. Being aware of how to connect with them after they've gone off of the screen time, you know? It's it's quite a, there are a lot of factors to it. And it needs to have a real holistic approach to that support.
Rachel:And I feel like there's so much judgment to that goes into it. Let's say if I were to tell someone, yeah, we're not doing any screen time. You know, we're all we're limiting our screen time. I feel like there's so much judgment as to well, why are you doing that? Well, are you like, are you judging me for not doing that with my kiddo? And it's such an uncomfortable topic?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, it is uncomfortable and for a long time, I've been passionate about this for a long time. But I didn't share a lot about it for a long time because there's that whole kind of, well, don't tell me what to do with my kids. And you know, and I'll do this in my life. And you do that in years and years, that's fine. I think that it's really important to realize that every family is different. But as an occupational therapist, we can help individual families to create solutions that are personalized for their families. That's what we do and so it's part of our responsibility as the OT to address screentime. Because it's such a huge part and day to day life for parenting these days, and actually help parents and not be just another expert, using quotation marks. Like tells parents what to do without actually giving them the support and practical reasons as to make changes in their everyday lives.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel:We all have the same end goal is to make these children and these families as happy as happy and live their life to the fullest. I mean, that's occupational therapy in a nutshell. So that's, that's one thing to keep in mind.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And because the, I feel like that issue of screen time is so multi-layered, you know. There's all sorts of different contexts. There's like, giving your kid screentime because maybe you as yourself have got postpartum depression, you know, that needs to be taken into account and mothers need to have this initiative and we can't expect parents to be making huge changes in their life if they've got multiple stressors on them from other reasons. Maybe dad's just lost his job. And he mums just lost their job. Maybe they've got a family member who's sick. Maybe they've got a child who's sick. Maybe they have it, they're living in poverty. Maybe they haven't got that yet. Maybe they live in an apartment, you know, there's so many different layers to it and it's really quite hard just to say like, this is what parents should be doing. You know, when we see those screentime guidelines without taking into consideration all of the different layers and context they're out of family advice.
Jessica:I have a question. So what are your thoughts on using screen time as a reward?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, I personally, I'm not a fan of it. I feel like it takes away from that intrinsic motivation that we have. We tried to instill in our children to do things around the home as part of family life for other reasons of the screen time. That's my personal opinion on it as someone who has a background in mental health and addictions and parenting. But in reality, once again, I'm saying that we need to find out what works for individual families.
Jessica:Yeah, I was just thinking of my...
Rachel McFedries:Individual children as well, you know. Individual children are all motivated by different things and it's about digging deeper and finding out what that meaningful occupation is full of them. Again, OT coming through here and what is the reward? You know, like, maybe the reward could be replaced by what is the child's love language, maybe it needs to be something to do with it, but love die time when the parent or a love information note in your lunchbox or something like that?
Jessica:Totally and I was just thinking about my kid, he's six. Well, he'll be seven when this podcast comes out and so I was just thinking about like, do I use screen time as a reward? Like, how much screen time? Is he good? Being like totally judging myself? Right now.
Rachel McFedries:And certainly, I yeah, I reflect on that a lot as well, obviously, because we have four children of different ages. And my eldest is just about to age. And so reflecting on the fact that he's a bit older now, and he doesn't necessarily fit into those specific guidelines of what the evidence shows for screen time. And so what does that mean for our children as they get older? When, as parents who live a limited screen lifestyle, lifestyle, like what what do we do for our children when we want to ease them into screens or we're ready to expose them to more screens, for example.
Jessica:How do you set guidelines for your kids then? For your children?
Rachel McFedries:Yes. Well, we recognize an asset, it's always changing. So that's one thing I also coach parents on as they're just because you've created a specific screen time agreement in your house for this particular time, it doesn't mean that it's going to change not going to change in the future, you know. We need to recognize that life goes through different ages and stages and so for a lot of our last three years, we have had very limited screen time. At the point where we can go like one or two weeks without much screen time. But we also have had a new baby in the house for the last year and so, you know, we have had more screen time for that. We try not to maybe live screen time more than two or three times a week, and no more than an hour at a time, just because we do still have preschools in the house. But certainly, as our baby grows, she's almost a year now. So she can crawl and she can come and watch the TV and that kind of thing. And so I'm very aware that I don't want her exposed to too much screen at the moment. And so we are constantly reassessing about what the older kids are having and how that impacts on the youngest child now families. Yeah, that's right. So we do have
Rachel:So you do want to educating your older kiddos as discussions. You know, it's I feel like I'm answering your to what the impacts of screen time are? question in such a roundabout way. But you know, that's what I mean about this so many different ways. Well, we're kind of putting you on the spot right now.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, but we've often had discussions in our house with our kids from a very young age about the reason why we don't have too much screen time, because they are asking those questions, you know. From a young age, you know, like, Sorry, can I have TV? No sound sorry, you can at the moment because play is better for your brain than tv is. We keep it really simple, but we do involve them in a discussion and we do talk about it and you know, we've tried things in the past, like having a schedule. This is your TV day, that's not your TV day, and actually an epic end of the day, you know, I have to try different things, we have decided that we we won't have a schedule that TV because it does get to be quite obsessive for the kids, you know. But that's just, that's just our family. And like I say, you know, one family solution is not going to be everybody's solution. But there is an interesting little piece of research that does show that families who attempt to have a schedule, they actually the children end up being more exposed to more screen time.
Rachel:I can see that just with with our clients and my clients in the past. Those ones who say that they're working on a schedule, they're using a schedule for their clients or for their kiddos. With screen time they come in and they tell me how obsessed their child is about the screen. What am I going to get it tomorrow? Is it going to be today for how long? And they can't, they're just so perceptive on it that they can't move past it. So I can see how that would be. I mean, proven by research. That's awesome.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, and you know, that, again, brings it back to that using the screen tool into the environment for the parents. And so it ends up being a sticking point. And it might end up that in that thing, and trigger for the mom or the dad. And so then we're having screentime meltdowns, and we're having like, teaching moments between the mom or the dad and the child, and then it gets, it gets really stressful. And so that's what we're trying to remove from the situation. Yeah.
Rachel:What about the families who say that kids need to learn how to use technology, because technology is the way of the future? And they say, Well, my child needs to learn how to do all these apps and things because that's what they're gonna do.
Jessica:Or even if we look at how the world is right now, with virtual learning, and so many children having school online.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, see there is another layer? Absolutely, as the and I totally hear that, from those parents as well and I can emphasize as a parent who has been worried about their child missing out on things or falling behind, because they haven't had much screentime. But I think realistically, when we think about it, you know, our children live in a digital age, and they grow up around devices, okay? And so they're not going to struggle to learn how to use an iPad, when they finally get introduced to it at age seven, if we choose to give it to them at age seven, you know. They're going to pick it up like that. It's going to be easy for them, because it's just something devices are so intuitive to use, and they're not had, you're probably 87 year old grandma can figure out how to use an iPad, you know, your seven year old who is learning and your brain is plastic is going to be able to figure it out extremely quickly. You know, and I don't feel like it's something that is talked about enough, because I feel like there's a huge pressure for parents to get their kids learning, to get them on to the learning apps, to keep them on to the iPad, so that they can want to read the age for you know, and that's another layer to it as well. We need to reassure parents that their child isn't gonna fall behind because they haven't learned how to read on an iPad at age four. It's it's real life learning is going to be able to teach them that by the time they get to the stage where they need to learn how to read, you know. It's going beyond is it appropriate for a four year old child to be learning how to read at age four? No, it's not needed, you know. They need to be outside. They need to be playing with blocks inside. They need to be playing role play. They need to be developing these social emotional brains at age four. They don't need to be developing their cognitive skills and learning how to read at age four.
Jessica:Especially on a screen.
Rachel:Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, this is a Yeah, this isn't one of my little soapboxes.
Jessica:Oh yeah, keep going, please. Because I totally, totally agree. I think, you know, I do have some proud moments in my parenting journey where I'm like, my kid wasn't on an iPad until maybe four or five years old, you know. And I mean, he definitely watched cartoons as a young, you know, as an infant and whatnot. But, you know, we definitely kept it to a minimum and I'm just really thankful that I had that awareness at the time and and had the ability as well.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, and that's the thing, you know. That's another layer to it is that I think we are in very privileged positions as occupational therapists, we trained and we know these things, and it comes naturally to us. and it's part of our responsibility to actually share our knowledge so that other parents who haven't had this particular training, or whatever, you know, can actually be encouraged by these stories. Because there's so much pressure out there to even get your kids on screens because they might be missing out on. I don't know, all the latest fads and all that kind of stuff, but it's just not needed and it's not necessarily.
Jessica:I think, some parents that, you know, I've heard from before, say, Well, my kid gets bored when they're not watching TV. They don't know what to do and, you know, I'll tell them Well, that's because they need to learn how to play instead of just looking at a screen all day and so I think there's that fear from some parents of, well, my kids won't know what to do. They'll be bored.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, yes. Yes, totally and, and it's about you know, acknowledging that and this is a stage of change. You know, this this Hello, moving to lose screens is a lifestyle change for the whole family. It is about acknowledging that and being like, well, it's gonna take a while for us to get into our new normal. Okay, it's maybe a couple of weeks and to let kids kind of settle down a bit and we can help parents through that by giving them advice about changing the environment. That setting up little simple invitations to play, about doing simple toy rotations, about scaffolding in children into clay, about connecting their children. Connecting with their children's, sorry, through play and there's so much that we can actually teach parents about about this kind of thing. And and the kids might complain that I'd be bored for a while. But eventually, they will kind of adjust to the new normal. Yeah.
Jessica:Well, and I could go on a soapbox about being bored and how it's a good thing for kids to be bored.
Rachel McFedries:I agree with you on that. I will be on that soapbox with you.
Rachel:How often though, as adults, when we fill our whitespace with our phones, you know,. We're just sitting there and no one I mean, you look at the the bus station, you look at the mall, you look at the grocery store, everyone driving, they're not doing something so they automatically pull up their phone. I'm guilty.
Jessica:Oh, for sure.
Rachel:We all are.
Jessica:For sure.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah. And actually, you know, for us as parents, like the phone is a really great parenting toolbox. You know, we learn so much about parenting through making connections online. I mean, look at this, we're doing this podcast now, finding out information on Instagram, which is where I've chosen to share information about spending time and play, which can be a bit ironic. But actually, yes, having the phone is a really great parenting toolbox. Bbut we need to be able to think well, how are we modeling to our children. I, for one, know that I really need to monitor this myself.
Jessica:Me too.
Rachel McFedries:I'm learning that right now. Yeah.
Rachel:Oh, yes.
Jessica:Always.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, and, you know, modeling different meaningful occupations to our children, you know. Whatever it is, for us, I'm not going to say that you need to go and read a book. I'm not gonna say that you need to go and do a crossword or whatever. Because it's totally dependent on the individual, you know.
Rachel:Let's take a quick break and talk about the sponsor for today's episode, Harkla. Like we said earlier, they make high quality products, things like sensory swings, weighted blankets, lap pads, compression sheets, body socks, all the things you guys know we love.
Jessica:So, we had the chance to try out a few of their products like one of their swings and weighted blankets, and they are definitely top shelf. You guys, their products are great. And yeah, you can go buy a sensory swing on Amazon. But when you purchase it from Harkla, you know where your money is going.
Rachel:If you're a therapist looking for new products, if you're a parent, and you need some new equipment for your kiddo, whoever you are, you guys have to check these guys out. ASAP.
Jessica:Okay, we're gonna get back to the episode. But stay tuned, because at the end of the episode, we're gonna give you a code for a discount with these guys.
Rachel:Yeah, well, let's kind of sidestep and talk about play. You're a play educator, and you mentioned invitations to play.
Jessica:I loved that. I know, like having a simple invitation to play and simple toy rotation.
Rachel:Yeah.
Jessica:Those are the things that caught my attention.
Rachel:And I have a friend who, who, who really took interest in the invitation to play and she set up these cute little, you know, tactile bins and wooden boxes with flower petals and stuff and I just started following along. I'm like, that is really cool and so if you touch on that a little bit, that'd be awesome.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yes. So throughout my parenting journey, I've been lucky enough to do a little bit more education for myself in early childhood and part of that is really cool resource we have in New Zealand called 'play feature' where you go, and you hang out with your child. It's like an early childhood center, but you're there with your child, and they offer education for parents about a play.
Jessica:That's amazing.
Rachel:That's so cool.
Rachel McFedries:It's really amazing. We're so lucky to have it. So through that I have, you know, learn a lot about play, which is what I'm sharing on my social platforms about play and it's really about identify when your child is there in play, and then you're able to extend on that. I feel like that's really the key, because you the ultimate goal, let's be honest, is that your child engages in independent play, you know? We want them to be happy playing over there so they engaged in the flow of play and they were just in the zone and we're over here having a coffee because we need it. We need a break.
Jessica:Yep.
Rachel:Absolutely.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. So being able to set up simple invitations to play is really, really crucial with being able to transition from screen time, which is what I want to empower parents about, through sharing on social media. So I'm not I'm super not into, like really elaborate Pinterest play invitations. I feel like they're just way over the top for parents with their energy. Some parents are super into them. Right? That's, that's awesome. You know, like, guys set up this amazing little small world play or whatever, with your kid, you know, that's totally fine if that's what fills your cup. But if you are a tired parent who just want your kid to go over there and play for a while, setting up a huge, massive Pinterest invitation to play is not sustainable long term for you as a parent and that's what I mean about, we need to have like a real holistic view of this. Because parents are tired and it's not sustainable for a lot of parents to be going in just kind of like sending out this huge, elaborate play invitation.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel:And it gets expensive.
Rachel McFedries:So I'm more about the simple play so getting
Rachel:Okay, so can you give our listeners an example of what to beyond just a random activity and thinking about what your children are actually enjoying it that moment and play identifying the play schema. So that's a developmental birthday a play invitation, a very simple holistic play invitation would did showing in their play, like it might be carrying things around in containers or it might be like transporting things from here to there or might be like throwing things and you know, that can be a trigger for a lot of parents. But actually using that, to build a extension on play and I mean, by build, I mean just kind of like build on your children's play, not like actually build something. But extend your children's play so that they can get into a flow of play, and they can get into a really nice space with their play with being independent and then and then you can go and have your cup of coffee. Like I feel that's really where we need to be meeting parents out with this type of stuff. look like? Or might look like?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, sure. So you might notice that your child is like, obsessed with windmills. Okay. So you might think, okay, so how can I extend this invitation? How can I extend the invitation for my child? So you might have a lot of toy cars at home. All right, cool. So you could just dump the toy cars out on the floor and expect your child to go and play with them. All right, maybe they do. But in order to make it really inviting, what you might do instead is you might put out a piece of material and then you might put a block underneath the piece of material and then you might put another block on top. So the block underneath is like a ramp and then the block on top is going over that, like a mountain, bridge going over a mountain or something like that, and then you put one tower on top of the ramp. And so they kind of like hopefully will engage with that. And then they will create their own play through that going forward.
Jessica:And maybe even like if they even if they watch you do that, then they might even imitate you by putting more blocks under and more on top.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah, exactly and that's just one kind of really simple explanation or example. You know, there are so many different ways to extend on our children's play, and we don't need to make it hard. You don't need to go out and buy all the fancy resources, because I'm super not into them. I just am very much about parents using what's already in the home and what's already sustainable for them to actually do.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel:I remember you shared your little outdoor mud kitchen, which I absolutely love. I have had my eye on one of those for a long time, even before the trip was born. And I was telling my dad I was like Dad, I need you to build me an outdoor mud kitchen. So we can have a lot of sensory play, a lot of experiences, and my dad is like he's not even gonna use it for like three years. I'm like three years. He's gonna be using it by the time he's a year old. By the time that he can stand, he's gonna be playing in the mud kitchen so get started building it now.
Rachel McFedries:Absolutely, yeah. I mean my little girl she's 11 months old, she she can crawl, she can pull this down, and she crawls over there and she posts a standard she puts her hands on the water.
Rachel:Exactly, yes!
Jessica:That's perfect. So can you tell us what you mean by toy rotations?
Rachel McFedries:Yes, absolutely, it's just a simple tool that you can have in your parenting toolbox. So you don't need to make it hard. I basically call it the just shove a whole lot of toys in the cupboard.
Rachel:There you go.
Rachel McFedries:So it's really quite clear that kids play better when they have less in the visual environment for them. You know, so when we have all of our toys out in the lounge, or the playroom, or whatever, I feel like it's very overwhelming for children and they find it hard to focus, and it's actually making their play more complicated than it needs to be. So get a lot of those toys and if you can shove them in a cupboard somewhere, or put them in a box in the garage, or above the wardrobe, or whatever, put them in containers or whatever works for you. And then just have a few play resources out in your lounge, or the playroom or whatever. And it will help your child to really seal into play because it's less overwhelming for them to choose what they're going to play with. And then on a rainy day, or when you are feeling like absolutely accelerated as a parent, and they're like, let's have an idea. Let's have the TV, you know, does that happen? That's really hard to deal with. Then you can go Oh, hang on a minute, let's choose something from the cupboard and you go to the cupboard, and you pick out something with your child and lift them up so they can say it and then hopefully they'll see when to play.
Jessica:Well, we've talked about that before, as well and have seen like a research study about how children learn better with less toys, and how it also helps to improve attention.
Rachel McFedries:Absolutely, absolutely. Because they are able to just kind of focus on their on that one thing and not be so distracted all the time. Yeah.
Jessica:And I mean, I think about that, as adults, it's like, literally, you know, if we're sitting at, you know, our kitchen table, and our kitchen table is a mess, we can't focus on anything.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, absolutely. And I say this to parents as well, you know. We have to remember that for our children. Play is the work. So what is the workspace look like? What does the play room look like? What does the play space in the lounge look like? You know, do we focus well, when we've got a really messy desk? I know some people can. But you know, personally, I can't. You know, when we reduce those visual distractions in our environment, in our work environments, it can be really helpful. So thinking about it as our children, what does the play space look like? What does the workspace look like? Valuing that and being respectful of that and just changing that for them every now and again, or removing all those toys and setting up to support where rotation can be really powerful.
Jessica:I love it.
Rachel:Well, I even think as an adult, we are on our computers and we have or our phones and we have 37 different tab open.
Jessica:Yes
Rachel:I can't get anything done. I have like a tab add where I'm like, oh, I need to go check that tab and that tab and that tab.
Jessica:Anytime I look at your computer and all those tabs open, I'm like, close your frickin tabs. Get out of there.
Rachel:I'm very guilty of that.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. And then it makes your computer run slower. It doesn't work.
Jessica:Yep. It's not good. I do like the toy rotation idea and I've definitely used that as suggestion to parents who have said that their child struggles to play with toys, or their child's not attending to toys. And I'm like, Okay, we'll clean up all the toys, and bring out like to. And then the next day, put those two toys away bring out a different toy, you know?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. And what I love about it, as well as that it's it reduces the overwhelm of tidying up as well, you know? How hard is it when you've got all the toys out and everything needs to be put away versus when you only have like two different sorts of play resources out, you know. Like magnetic tiles and cars, or, for example, you know. It's so much easier to tidy up and again, it just reduces the stressor for the parent and the child and it creates a more harmonious environment rather than being stressed out about all these toys around the place. You know, because there's another layer, you know, coming in Yeah, reducing the stress or for the parent is massive.
Rachel:Absolutely.
Jessica:I'm even thinking back to like, all the pictures I have of my son when he was, you know, learning to play with toys and there was definitely a period where we just dumped all the toys out on the floor and we've got pictures where there's like Legos and blocks and books and cars and stuffed animals. There's just crap everywhere and now as like a six, seven year old, he kind of still does that a little bit where he'll get out
Rachel McFedries:Yea, that's right. Yeah. And I feel like some toys. He'll play with him for a while. And then he'll just leave them there and then go get the next set of toys and leave just being able to identify that and just remembering that the them there. And you know, of course, as I've, you know, gone on my learning journey of how to help him better. I'm like, oh, that's probably why he does that. Because that's how his play area always was when he was little and so now having to early years are super important. And being able to create great teach him like, hey, well, if you're done with your Legos, put your Legos away before you get out your slime or put your slime away before you get out your your books or whatever. You know? connections for our kids and their brains. And just modeling
Jessica:Yeah for sure.
Rachel McFedries:It's hard, though.
Jessica:So hard. I wanted to go back just really briefly to and helping them to learn all that kind of stuff early is so important. like, how you can start decreasing screen time and like, say, your child watches TV in the morning, and then again, like after lunch, and then again, before bed, and maybe like some ideas of how to decrease all that screen time?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, great question. So I really tried to talk with parents about sitting down and looking at what the current routine the day looks like, for the week, and identifying those times when they do have screen time for their kids and just picking one time. So you know, we don't want to create a huge goal for ourselves that we're going to cut screentime out completely or kind of better, under 30 minutes, if we're currently having four hours a day. Like it's not gonna work so well and it's going to be quite stressful for the parents. So really just starting off with a gentle transition for yourself and your family, talking about it with your parenting partner as to what time you want to actually either reduce or completely cut back recognizing that you might want to keep one of those times because it's actually gonna make your life easier. For example, in the afternoon, or before school was a very common one and so just picking one time and having that as your first goal to reduce is really, really a good start.
Rachel:Okay, I've got a question. What what do you suggest when one parent is on board with reducing screen time and the other parent maybe doesn't recognize it as an issue or they that's not a meaningful value to them to reduce screen time? I mean, that's tough to navigate.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, super tough scenario and super common. I get this question quite a lot and I really come back to the fact that there are different stages to change. You know, when we look at the psychological stages of change, there will be people who are more ready for change versus people who aren't. and it's really hard to move somebody to a stage where they're ready to change, if they're not even ready to look at it yet. So can create quite a lot of tension in the home between parenting partners, and also with grandparents as well. Because that's a common one that comes up too. So my advice is to discover your own personal reason why you would like to have less screen time in the home. So looking at the evidence, looking at the research, or even just kind of like something that's really on your heart that you know, to be true as to why you want to have a screen time, being really clear about that, and then then communicating it to your parenting partner or your or the children's grandparents. Like, Hey, this is the reason why we need to reduce the screen time or this is a reason why I really feel called to reduce the kids screen time. It might be because they will have less screen time meltdowns, the behavior will probably be better if you have less screen time. Whatever resonates for you, and then being really clear about that communicating it with your partner. Maybe sending them some videos or research articles or tagging them on my Instagram.
Jessica:Hint. Hint
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, kind of like move them further along their readiness to change cycle and then eventually they will get to the point where they are ready to make change. Believe me, I will give you hope and that they will but it is a long process for some people just to move along that stages of change cycle and recognizing that. And actually being like, Alright, okay, so that's the reason why they're just not open to change yet, I can help them along by modeling, by giving them some more information, by getting clear on my reason why, and communicating that really frequently. That can really help.
Jessica:Yeah, and when I think to like approaching it from a positive standpoint versus, like, here's what we're gonna do, this is the only way to do it, instead of being like, hey, here's my thoughts. What are your thoughts?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah, definitely and recognizing that it's a huge lifestyle change, as I said before. It affects everybody in the family, you know, like, they might be feeling like, they don't want to make change, because they are scared that it will come into their own time that they need to de stress or relax, or they might just be like, a bit overwhelmed by the thought of it. They, you know, might just like, well, you know, if they kept watching TV at this time, then what are they going to do instead? You know, so having those conversations and, and pointing out when the kids are playing well without TV or an iPad. You know, I'm really, really just being like, positive about it like you said before. Yeah.
Jessica:I was even thinking, as you just said that, you know, being very positive with your kids when they're playing and just giving them a lot of positive feedback when they're playing with their toys.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I talked a bit about this with parents as well, and being able to transition away from screen time and, and also being right there with your kids in play. Because a big barrier for parents is that they don't feel like they want to play with their kids all the time, which is totally fair enough. Like I said before, your huge goal is independent play for your kids and so one way you can do that is recognizing the need for connection straight off the screen time. So communicating that with them, and being there for them and helping them to realize, again, after they've been on screen time, and you do that by being alongside and play, and then you respect can respectfully say to them, Hey, I've noticed that you've done this in your play, I love that tower that you've built. I'm just gonna go off and do some dinner prep now. I've just got a quick job to do. I'll be back in five minutes and then you can show me what else you've done in the play. I'm really excited to see that and then you come back in five minutes time. That's very important.
Jessica:Keep your word Yeah.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah. Keep your word and say to them, when
you get back:Wow, look at what you've done during that time that I've been away. Can you tell me more about that? And being interested in the play, but you know, you don't have to be right there all the time.
Jessica:Yeah. So good.
Rachel:I'm just like, I'm learning so much and I just I feel like it's so simple. But you have to consciously put effort into these strategies in order for them to actually work which I think that's where we lose a lot of people.
Jessica:Totally.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. And that's what I mean about it's, it's so multi-layered, you know. There's, there's so much more to it than just turning off the TV or taking away the iPad. It's about attachment. It's about connection. It's about love languages. How does your child feel loved? Do they respond best by you being there or do they respond best by having, you know, physical touch, a message or something like that? It's energy from us as parents, you know. It is a lot more energy to live a screen light lifestyle, but on the flip side of that, it's less energy to have to deal with the screentime meltdowns, and it's actually really rewarding, because you will see your child playing why and that is just the best, the best thing to observe ever.
Jessica:Totally.
Rachel:Absolutely.
Jessica:Alright, I have two things. First one, I think it's important to to remember that like, it's going to be hard before it gets better.
Rachel:Yes.
Rachel McFedries:Yes, it does. It is hard. It's very hard. You know, and, you know, we have had times in my family, you know, like, we've got four kids, we have times when we have more screentime because it's hard stuff going on with family., and I know that it's gonna be hard when we pull that screen time back again, and I have to like psychologically get myself up for it. So having that mindset of like, you know, it is hard, but we can do it as parents is really really important to recognize. Yeah.
Jessica:The second thing I was gonna ask which it's a little bit off topic, but you mentioned love languages and I'm super interested in that. So I was wondering what your what your love language is?
Rachel McFedries:Oh gosh, I feel like it has changed as I've gone through my mothering years.
Jessica:Yeah, I bet.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, I used to be super., what do you call it, gifts,. I was very much into the gifts, you know, but now I'm all about the acts of service.
Jessica:Ok. Alright.
Rachel:Yes, that's definitely mine too.
Jessica:Yours is acts of service, that makes sense.
Rachel:That and I'd say physical touch too. Yeah,
Jessica:I'm physical touch and quality time. Yes. How do we get our kids love languages figured out?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, so on the love languages website, there's a little blurb about this. Okay. I would love to say it's an easy quiz that you can do. But it's not as asking your kids how they think that mom and dad love them.
Rachel:Oh, wow. That's deep.
Jessica:I haven't actually done that for Logan. I need to do it with Logan.
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, I did it with my kids. Recently, I just sat down, we were in the car, actually, and it was we were just talking about it in our giant people mover because we've got four kids and it was interesting what I came back with, you know. They're like, Well, we know you love us, because you compare us meals. We know you love us because you take us to places and we know you love us because you give us a big hug all the time, you know. And so that's also showing the love languages because it's lots of different examples. There's physical touch. There's quality time. There's acts of service.
Jessica:Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm doing it tonight.
Rachel:Let's put a link in the show notes to this website. So for anyone listening who wants to do that quiz they can and they should definitely, like, tag us on Instagram, you, Rachel and us as well and tell us.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel:You know what love language they all are? Because I think that would be so interesting to see.
Jessica:I'm super curious what my kid is going to say.
Rachel McFedries:Fascinating, isn't it and for your little kids, you know, who might not be able to tell you that kind of stuff yet, it's really about observing and trying different things, and then quite aware of what they respond to. You know, I think it's pretty obvious when you've got a child who's really into physical touch,
Jessica:Totally.
Rachel:Yeah, definitely. And the sensory system comes into play a lot in those love languages as well.
Rachel McFedries:Totally, totally. Yeah, yeah, it really, really does.
Jessica:Gosh, so many good things.
Rachel:Well, I feel like we got all of our, you know, deepest questions answered here and we can probably wrap everything up. But do you have any, I think you've given us so many nuggets of wonderful information. But if you can leave our listeners with your one piece of advice, just this gem of information. What would it be?
Rachel McFedries:Oh, right. Yeah, um, I guess I would just say to be encouraged, you know, like, it's it's really hard journey and it's something that we're all navigating as parents. But being encouraged that we can actually make meaningful change and our family's lives and it's really amazing when you see the results of that.
Rachel:Yes,
Jessica:It's awesome. How can people find you and talk with you and connect with you?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, so you can jump onto my website, or I've got lots of free downloads on there that you can download to get you started on your journey to less screen time, or you can just follow me on social media. And yeah, I'd love to connect with you.
Rachel:And you have courses to write or you have a course?
Rachel McFedries:Yeah, I do have any calls and I'm also just about to launch some group coaching programs.
Rachel:Oh, good. Well, we will make sure that we link everything in the show notes so people can find you and just soak up all of your resources because everyone should.
Jessica:Yes.
Rachel:And we'll make sure that it's easy for everyone.
Rachel McFedries:Thank you, lovelies. It's been so good to be able to chat about this. And you know, I just feel really passionate about supporting parents in this area. And with realistic, practical advice it's so needed. Right.
Jessica:Exactly.
Rachel:I know. I've learned something just Oh, for sure, too. And we we just appreciate you taking the time out of your Saturday.
Jessica:Yeah, your Saturday. She's a day ahead of us.
Rachel:To chat with us.
Rachel McFedries:Saturday morning. I'm off to go and have another coffee now.
Jessica:Oh, good.
Rachel:I love it.
Jessica:You deserve it.
Rachel:All right, my dear, we will chat with you later. Okay?
Rachel McFedries:Thank you so much for inviting me on.
Jessica:Yeah.
Rachel:Of course. Bye Rachel.
Jessica:All right, you guys. We hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as we did. Like we say this with every interview but we loved her. We loved her conversation. All the links for her social media, her website, her courses, her coaching, they're all in the show notes. So make sure you check it out.
Rachel:And don't forget to leave review on iTunes. Spread the love of our podcast. That is how we reach more families, more therapists and more people like you listening. And we are so appreciative of all of your reviews.
Jessica:All right, you guys, go have a great day.
Rachel:Ok. Bye. One last reminder, this episode was sponsored by Harkla, our newest favorite sensory product company. With less opportunity for movement in today's virtual world and with how much we love obstacle courses, this company is the perfect place to shop for equipment to set up bomb obstacle courses.
Jessica:Okay so if you're unfamiliar with obstacle courses, let's give you an example. You can use Harkla's indoor therapy swing and your child can swing on their stomach to gather in items such as a puzzle piece. Then climb out and jump across a pillow bridge while in their Harkla sensory body sock and place their puzzle piece on the board then do a wheelbarrow walk. Super simple, super fun, and so many benefits.
Rachel:So if you guys are ready to check them out, go to Harkla.co/sensory and you can save 10% on any of their products by using the code of sensory.
Jessica:We will link this in the show notes in case it's easier for you to have it in writing. and that's it.
Rachel:We are so excited to work together to help create confident kids all over the world and work towards the happier, healthier life. Reminder this is general information related to occupational therapy, pediatrics and sensory integration. We do not know you or your child therefore we do not know any specific needs. Therefore you should always refer back to your pediatrician and occupational therapist for more information.