High History: The History of PRIDE - w/ Valykas & RileyHotSauce | Episode 14 - Mind of Snaps Podcast

We're diving into the (high) history of PRIDE with Valykas and RileyHotSauce!

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Jessy (Mind Of Snaps / SheSnaps)

www.MindofSnaps.com

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Transcript

spk_0:   0:11
Welcome to the mind of Snap podcast with your host, Jess A. She stamps a popular twitch broadcaster, photographer, entrepreneur and Mendel's advocates in this and future cast expect to fall on with snaps as she learns more about her mind in the world and her fellow humans, it could get messy, but stick around. You might just learn something as you enter the mind of snaps. Well, okay,

spk_1:   0:38
so we are going to just jump right into our episode 14 of the Mind of Snaps podcast this week, we're bringing back hi history This episode I'm super excited for We're going to do the high history of pride and I've got Valley here. I've got Riley here. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves. Then we'll jump right into it. Valley, Tell everyone about yourself.

spk_2:   1:01
Hello? I'm Valukas. Um I am gay. A twit Streamer, um, going to school Everything and anything you want me to be

spk_1:   1:15
so perfect. Please just make that like your twitter bio. I've never heard something describe you, so Okay, riles

spk_0:   1:26
Hey, guys, it's Rouse. You know me. You can call me anywhere Instagram twitter, and, uh, we have found on twitch, don't we?

spk_1:   1:35
We D'oh! D'oh! All right, I'm doing my dad here. So you you guys each need to take a little pull. Did you start that joint you got there? Riles?

spk_0:   1:44
Oh, it's going. Oh,

spk_1:   1:52
this is much bigger dab that I was expecting. Thio haven't done dabs in a while. Okay? This is my podcast, so I'm just gonna just get into it. This is why I History is my favorite. I also took two little involved There is. I'm very excited to learn about this. Honestly,

spk_0:   2:25
this is gonna be a good one. This is gonna be good. 40

spk_2:   2:27
minutes of coughing and

spk_1:   2:32
we'll just jump into it after I Kenbrell again. So I also took to edibles. Riley has some fancy joint valleys puffing on his pen. We're all going to keep this going as we move through it. So don't expect the ah language to be too consistent. It it will probably be a mess. And I am excited for that. You know why you're listening to this motherfucker? You knew what was coming. You knew

spk_0:   2:58
it. You're, I think, the most importantly, Though Valley and I both you have iced coffee which is like, truly an important part of gay culture in my hut, literally.

spk_2:   3:14
I just order. I went to Starbucks other day and I

spk_0:   3:16
ordered a long me and they just gave it to me ice. And I was like, How did you know? How did you know?

spk_1:   3:24
Claws I was trying to think of of like when it would be appropriate to discuss this Because, like, I'm fairly certain Riles knows we talk about pretty much everything rounds like one of my must ease. Andi, I think I just talked about it and discord to. But I've never really discussed my sexuality openly on stream because I came from a very conservative upbringing. And honestly, I was still very like, you know, in my own head imposter syndrome ing s. So I like I never bothered to say it, but I feel like this is a good time to just lay it out there, that I am bisexual. So you know, friendship.

spk_2:   4:05
So, you know, I think with the empowerment of the community of the LGBT plus community right now, it's so strong and so powerful. I mean, we have ways to go like a long ways to go, but I think that we are all understanding that we need each other to kind of, you know, push the Cohen co agenda on and make sure we all have our rights. And we're all treated equally and comfortably. And, you know, it's great that you found the empowerment to finally, you know, come to terms with that and to be vocal about it, because that's what we need. You know, we need people in, you know who have ah following in a community to kind of come forth like, you know what I I am this. This is who I am. Let's all talk about it and be open about it. So that's amazing that you you've come to that. I'm gonna be oh,

spk_1:   5:01
friends. Yeah. I thought about making a Twitter posts, and then I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. This is so serious is so different. Why does this matter? Why should I have to say this? We'll also

spk_2:   5:13
too. I'll go ahead, right? And I don't want

spk_0:   5:15
This is perfect. This is the perfect time for you to do it, you know? Yeah. Yes, it's very apropos. Um, also, if I get your information afterwards, and I can send you the get you on the mailing list for the gay agenda. Oh, now there's

spk_2:   5:32
a card, and you automatically need to listen to Britney Spears. Unfortunately, it's

spk_1:   5:37
damn it. You know, I did like her sparkly outfit in toxic. That was the one, right?

spk_2:   5:44
Well, there there it

spk_0:   5:45
is. A lot of hits and toxic. Well,

spk_1:   5:49
I like to the sparkly one. It

spk_0:   5:51
is descriptive. I think if we went through the, uh, through the, you know, the arsenal of Britney Spears outfits, that would be Ah. Ah, good. Uh, good gay culture just to

spk_2:   6:06
go back on you. You were talking about how you wanted to, you know, post on Twitter about it. Um, you know, the one of the main reasons why I think people love you so much. Is that your vocal about mental health? And now you have another. I don't want to say a card, but you have another card in your hand, which is you're part of this This, you know, marginalized community, and putting forth that now is going to allow more people to kind of come to you and be like, Okay, you're even more understanding now because you know where I'm coming from. So

spk_1:   6:43
you know what, though? Here's the Here's the difficulty with this, and that's why I almost didn't want to say anything for a long time. That's what I struggled with it a lot is I just I don't know what everyone went through. Really. What I do understand is not knowing, like how to tell people when I realized it, but like it didn't quite click for me until pretty fucking recently. Despite the fact that I had had relationships with women in the past. It, like, literally still wasn't registering for me, that that was anything from the norm, you know, because there's such a a stigma associated with gay men versus gay women, you know, like everyone is just so excited to see two women anywhere near each other. So it's like they don't It almost feels like it doesn't count because, like that is so normal that even people who are anti gay seem to be cool with lesbians.

spk_0:   7:40
Yeah, well, that's a part of, you know, buyer a shirt, you know, like, that was sort of ingrained. You said, like I don't know what other people went through. But, like, that's what you went through is, you know, just missing it out, right, Because you're like, No, like, you know, it's not a gray area. It's ah, it's one of the other. Yeah, and that that was something they had to go through

spk_1:   7:59
them.

spk_2:   7:59
And I mean, even your destination to that, you know, conclusion is is a journey in itself, you know? Have you had times where you thought about it and you were like, No, no, no, no. Now it can't be. Can't be. Can't be. You know, you coming to that conclusion is is a journey in itself. So I mean, either way, it's a plausible and, you know, I applaud you for it. I'm glad I'm

spk_1:   8:23
how Well, thank you.

spk_0:   8:24
Round of applause. We're

spk_1:   8:26
learning things. Yea, applause for self discovery. You guys know like that's such a big thing in my life now. And that's why one of the reasons why I like this podcast episode seemed so perfect for like making it known with words and not just in text toe like a handful of people, you know, it was it just felt right, like, this is this is good. I have good feelings. Now I'm excited. And that Dad just kicked in again,

spk_0:   8:57
Like, halfway through speaking. I was like, Oh, my God. I am so stoned.

spk_1:   9:04
Riles Oh, my God, This is I don't know, many high histories. Has this been note? Hasn't been to money, but three,

spk_0:   9:12
This is like number three, and this is the 1st 1 of the guests, So Congratulations. Oh, yeah. I'd

spk_2:   9:19
like to think the academy.

spk_1:   9:21
Oh, yeah. Special Davis is now I'm even more excited. All right, let's do more drugs. Okay, so So Valley is gonna be running the show for us today. Last week, Riley was our last week. Last time that was That was years ago. Riley was our our guide into what we were learning about at that time. And the time before that it was me. We're going to just keep bouncing around. So Valley did some learning. Just some stuff.

spk_2:   9:53
Yes, it's very exciting. And the topic that I'm gonna be discussing I thought I knew a lot about and diving deeper into it. It was just it was like a TV drama. You're just like your adding in these characters, and it just kind of exploded into something so much like, wow, mind blowing. So,

spk_1:   10:16
yeah, I'm ready for I'm ready for the mind blowing. You know what I just realized? This is This is gonna be like like my my gay orientation packet. Literally.

spk_2:   10:28
You'll be more informed than about 98% of

spk_0:   10:31
the community. So eggs spilling tea.

spk_1:   10:37
Okay. Okay. So what? What was the first term that you Googled when we when we started talking about this podcast episode and I was like, Don't think on any specific subject, necessarily. Just go and see where the research takes you. Like, what was the first thing that you Googled?

spk_2:   10:54
The first thing I Googled was pride, actually. Oh, that was one thing, because when I first came out, I came out when I was 16. Um, you know, I never knew of this pride, and it wasn't until I was about, like, 1920 when I went to my first pride, which is like, I live in a very small town area. So my first pride was like maybe somebody with a kazoo on this side of the street

spk_1:   11:19
wearing ah, human right sticker, just like

spk_2:   11:23
blowing the kazoo and I was So

spk_1:   11:29
is underused, though

spk_2:   11:32
really, like if someone came to pride with a Z would be like, You understand the game community and I love you. But when we talk in the gay community about gay pride, a lot of people are like, you know, people see Strewn Sze of men just without shirts, you know, projecting their sexuality and talking about sex condoms in all this shit. And I'll have people like, Well, this isn't what prides about funny story. It actually started because gay men and lesbians wanted to have amore vocal ah, vocal place for their sexuality and to be able to dance in public and kind of express themselves of who they are And, um, space, yeah, and essentially, like, be able to make out with people in an open area. So it's essentially started because of sex. Oh, so that's what it was really interesting to me that a lot of people like all this, isn't what prides about it. It is about that, you know, it's definitely morphed, but it's it's so much more now. You know,

spk_1:   12:41
it's changed a lot then, so people people believe it. It was a certain way and now they're saying that it's It's It's gone to this place that it wasn't before. Like they forgot that that's where it started. How long? How long ago was this like the first? First I

spk_2:   12:58
was 19 7 d. Yes. 1970 June 28th was the first first pride, and it happened in Los Angeles. Actually,

spk_1:   13:12
I was just there. Oh, my God. The fashion in Los Angeles, by the way.

spk_2:   13:20
Well, you know why

spk_1:   13:21
she's this? Yes, absolutely. I recognize that right away there were so many beautiful gay people with the best fashion I've ever seen. I made so many friends on the streets there, Riley it was It was like, how I was talking to everyone in Seattle, except that they all talked back. And we're so responsive, so extra and so goddamn amazing. God, I love people.

spk_0:   13:49
Yeah, we're making thing. No one talks back in Seattle that you just the rain came back and I was, like, really excited. And then I was like, Oh, here comes, you know, seasonal affective.

spk_1:   13:58
Oh, no. I want to be there. Where? The rain for photography, though. Who? It's good. Okay, 19 71st ransom.

spk_2:   14:10
First pride. So before we get there, um, how did we get there? And one of the things that came up that a lot of people within the gay community, you know, which is the Stonewall Riots s O the sewol. Riots were a Siri's of spontaneous violent demonstrations by people in the LGBT community on and they were protesting against, Ah, police raid that took place inside of Stonewall. Violent. How violent. Um, tossing of beer bottles, rocks, bricks. People were turning cars. People were setting things on fire

spk_0:   14:52
ever tickled. I've heard it called like a rebellion. It was it was just a slave rebellion. It's very French revolution. Yeah, it

spk_2:   15:01
was, you know, and that's what I'm just like We need to get back to that like the anarchist within me is

spk_0:   15:06
way need to do that. We owe

spk_2:   15:10
right now. Us three will just find some goto a Starbucks and be like this is anarchy. Turn over. It would be

spk_1:   15:17
crazy like from fucking Talladega Nights Will be will be the little kids running around like that. It means but 11 grand hose and sprayed in someone's window. E d'oh! I feel like the halfway to adult person and me. It feels the urge to just throw this out there. Guys don't start any riots. Please, guys don't riots. This is this is all fun discussion. We are not attempting to incite anything.

spk_0:   15:51
Yeah, they organized anarchy.

spk_1:   15:56
Please do continue Valley.

spk_2:   15:57
Okay? Yes. Oh, um, we're gonna go a little bit before that, and we're just gonna set the climate of the world's ready. It was after world War Two. Um, and there was this select few of Pete people who wanted Thio essentially bring America back to a place where it was, you know, kind of like America, like white picket fence America. Um um, so they wanted to restore the prewar social order and hold off the forces of change. Um,

spk_1:   16:34
I like how you said that and hold off of forces of change.

spk_2:   16:38
So all you history people there know of Joseph McCarthy? He was he was a senator that was conducting the, uh, searching for communists within the US government. And a lot of people lost their jobs. So he was this kind of huge forced into being like, What is a cause that is, You know what? What? Americans out there are would be easily convincing if, like, a foreign power, let's say, came in and was like, You know, you need to turn over America. You need toe burnt to the ground essentially, and a lot of people look to the gay community. Um So, Clyde, Howie, uh, he was a lawyer within the U. S. State Department who kind of kicked this off. And this is a quote. It is generally believed that those who engage in overt acts of perversion lacked the emotional stability of normal persons. Yeah, and said all of the government's intelligent agencies are in complete agreement that sex perverts a k a. Anybody within the LGBT community homosexuals, um uh, perverts in government constitute security risks. So there was this huge push to rid the federal government, state governments and local governments of gay people. So over 1700 federal job applications were denied based off of the fact that they thought that person was gay. 43 over 4300 people were discovered are discharged from the military and over 420 were fired from their government jobs have been suspected of homosexuals. So yeah, it was It

spk_1:   18:31
was a long time

spk_2:   18:31
to be good.

spk_1:   18:32
So terrible. So what? I don't understand how the how they how they condemn that. A safe safety risk. They feel they're weak enough to be turned. Is that what? What? That waas

spk_2:   18:45
What it was in 1950 to the American Psychiatric Association listed homosexuality in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, a za mental disorder. So

spk_1:   18:57
I knew that I was once classified that

spk_2:   19:00
yes, actually wasn't turned turned over until 1973. So the government seeing you know, this scientist, that's like a psychologist performing this was like, you know, gay people. It's a mental disorder. So if you're hiring a person with a mental disorder, um, then they're weak. So before a power came in, you know, they could be easily drifted to the other side. So it it also goes to, you know, let's say you got into a fight with a co worker and he didn't like him. Well, guess what you could be like. Well, that co worker is gay.

spk_1:   19:40
Oh, my gosh. And get honestly, it was one of the first things I thought of when you said, suspected of being gay even like dude, people who are terrible people would get so many people in trouble. Just pretty sure that guy's gay. Pretty sure she's a lesbian. And then suddenly, like everyone that they've ever disliked is gone, and

spk_0:   20:03
not they don't have to

spk_2:   20:04
deal with him anymore. Yeah. So, um, police actually started doing, um, sweeps. They called it sweeps and they would go to neighborhoods, parks, bars, beaches anywhere that, you know, gay people frequented

spk_1:   20:23
places, fun places, T o. Although they were

spk_2:   20:28
essentially performing the trap mint, which is basically trying to kind of corner somebody. And there was one situation where there was a guy police officer, went to a gym, and he was undercover, and he started grabbing himself and moaning and just acting very sexual and looking at a guy. And the guy asked him like Like, Dude, are you okay? And the police offer police officer arrested him.

spk_1:   20:56
What?

spk_2:   20:57
Because he he thought he was gay because he asked him if he was okay,

spk_1:   21:03
s

spk_2:   21:05
so it was. It

spk_1:   21:06
was crazy and fucking weirdo creep, right?

spk_2:   21:09
It's It's insane. And then within the state and local levels, thousands of gays when you when they when you would ah, they would arrest you for for quote unquote suspect the suspicion of homosexuality. They would post your picture in the newspaper on and entire area would would. How's that person was arrested because

spk_0:   21:37
you gave old school doc sing?

spk_1:   21:41
Yes, that's talk about ruining someone's life. There are so many bad people that would do that.

spk_2:   21:47
It's insane. So, you know, here there's over 1000 like over it like it was the amount of people in there were insane, But there are people that stayed in like prison in mental hospitals. Um, four years afterwards, after 1973 when it was when they kicked it off the diagnostics. But it was Evelyn Hooker, um, in 1956 and Evelyn Hooker, right? She's a good guy, though. So we're happy for her. Performed a study that compared the happiness and while in dusted nature of self identified homosexual men with heterosexual men and found no difference. Um, so, yeah, she was basically like, there's no difference between these thes two individuals. Um, so it was great, you know, there was definitely people who were who were understanding of like, you know, this is fucked up. We need to change this.

spk_0:   22:46
She's on it. Yes, she

spk_2:   22:48
was ready. She was just like, don't come for me,

spk_0:   22:52
you know, Look at her. She's just, like goes.

spk_1:   22:56
I really like her name. I feel like she would just be like like a boss, boss. Chicken like power suits. You know,

spk_2:   23:02
she's probably wearing, like, a lab coat and was just like 99999 So, um, 19 fifties. Um, it was when, like, uh, activism started happening and groups started forming. One of them was the butcher. This so I apologize. Be modest in the modern Chinese society, um, which was actually started by, ah, Communist activist Harry. Hey. Ah, in Los Angeles. And he understood that. You know, we need to kind of put a positive face to the gay community on DDE. What? He started waas. He started. They're the reductive of the modest kind society where

spk_1:   23:50
we need to give them just like a short name.

spk_2:   23:52
Yeah, we're going to call, um Mata the modest society perfect to unify homosexuals, educate them, provide leadership, and assist quote unquote sexual deviants with legal troubles. No. So they realize that this approach is kind of radical, so they changed it. The kind of, um, something a little bit less drastic and just have focused on assimilation and respectability. So basically, being like these are normal people, we're gonna show you how these people are normal. Um, the reason that they would change more minds about homosexuality by proving that gays and lesbians were normal people no different from heterosexuals. Soon after, several women in San Francisco called the Daughters of Elias were gonna shorten that to deal be lesbians. Although the eight women who created the deal be initially came together to be able to have a safe place to dance as the deal be grew, they don't have similar goals to the to the Mata and urged the members to assimilate into general society. So, basically, you know, just kind of be yourself and kind of go on there in society and then be normal, but lived madly yourself.

spk_1:   25:08
I like that. It started out of

spk_0:   25:10
the dancing. Yes, a lot of these places, a warning started becoming

spk_2:   25:14
dancing. They wanted a place to go and dance and have a good time. And they couldn't because, um, they it was illegal to be gay in public. So, um, it's just so crazy. One of the things I was reading is that the United States Postal Service actually tracked where, um, like homosexual like magazines and anything LGBT related would go and they would track. The police would come in, see the report and go to their house. Aw, it was

spk_1:   25:50
literally like USPS, Diane, how do you think readership up? Keep readership up and no one's going to jail. It's crazy for you. What? These magazines,

spk_2:   26:08
Um, so one magazine was called one, and they issued something. Theis you That article which concerned homosexuals and heterosexual marriages on the grounds that the material was obscene despite it being covered in brown paper wrapping. So the government was like, You can't post this article about heterosexual and homosexual marriages. Essentially, uh, how much of the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court in 1958 ruled that one could mallets material through the Postal Service, So they stopped using the Postal Service as, like, a way to rid the world of homosexuals.

spk_1:   26:51
That's definitely all it takes. Just don't give them newspapers or magazines and just problem solved. Good job, guys.

spk_2:   27:00
You did it. You did it. So now we're gonna switch over Thio. So right now, there is a lot of things happening in the West Coast. In the 19 fifties, there was the Compton riots, the Compton cafeteria riot, which, um, uh, had, ah, lot of the marginalized people within the gay community consist of effeminate men. Masculine women, Um, people who are transgender, um, people of color

spk_0:   27:36
run the gamut. LGBT q u i et tu es?

spk_2:   27:41
Yeah. Yeah, basically. Plus, um, but more focusing, focusing on the people of color right now, because in the Compton cafeteria riot, it was, um, 1959. Um, there was, uh, riot at cooper doughnuts. Where, um, police officer, frequent police officers were frequenting, and ah, group of gay and transgender people went in there and, um, started, like, turning up the place to kind of protest police harassment. Then, um, that group was part of the model group. The model group came back and was like, This is way too. This is way, way too radical. So that group broke off, and, um, they essentially kept vocalizing that we need to be radical, and we need to kind of stage more protests like this. So in 1966 in San Francisco, drag queens hustlers and transvestites were sitting incompetence cafeteria When the police arrived, 12 arrests men dressed as women. A riot ensued with the patrons of the cafeteria slinging cups, pleats, saucers and breaking plexi class windows in front of the restaurant and returning several days later to smash windows again after they were replaced. Cafeteria was another place that police officers frequented, so they began writing.

spk_0:   29:20
So we have riots in the West Coast.

spk_1:   29:23
I like that. They came back to re smash the windows like No, I did this on purpose.

spk_2:   29:28
They're like, Buck you. I did this. I put work into this. I'm coming back and doing

spk_1:   29:32
it s

spk_2:   29:34
so while this is all going on on the West Coast in the East Coast, um, New York City, we're going to be dogging amount. Um, Mayor F Robert F. Wagner, um, was the current mayor of New York City at the time. Ah, he was concerned about the image of the city and preparation of the 1964 world's fair. So his whole thing was he wanted to, uh, read New York City of gay bars. Um, so he went around this, he revoked liquor licenses of the bars. Um, that were suspected of serving gay people. Undercover police officers work to entrap as many homosexual men as possible.

spk_1:   30:22
How can we feel good about doing a job like that?

spk_0:   30:26
I like I was I was wondering. I was like, Is this a good New York mayor? Was it a bad New York mayor? It was a bad on.

spk_1:   30:34
And I'm just imagining these individual cops that are doing this like, Like,

spk_2:   30:39
how? How could you be like, Oh, you know what? I'm gonna go into a public spot without my dick and be like, Yo, I'm gay. You want this in the guy being like, Yeah, sure. And then he's been like, Joke's on you. You're arrested,

spk_1:   30:51
right? And it's it's always like it seems like they go with the most sexually aggressive thing they can think of, and and they're so like, homophobic that it just it's almost laughable, like, you know, just it's just I can't imagine being that bad of a person like go out, meet other humans in the world, and then be like, Guess what? This has been really fun. You're going to jail now. You know we don't dance and grinded. That was a blast.

spk_2:   31:18
You're fucked. Yes. So the entrapment, like in bars was was when I was reading was really fucked up because the police officer would engage in public in conversation if the conversation headed toward the possibility that they might leave together. The officer bought the man a drink. Then he was arrested for solicitation. Wow.

spk_0:   31:43
So it was just because he bought him a drink

spk_2:   31:45
because he bought him a drink. So

spk_1:   31:48
what a fucking shitty shitty thing to dio

spk_2:   31:53
Insane in the city. But the modest society, they were not happy about this. They were very fast. And they got, um, the mayor, the Robert. Why were Robert Wagner to, um, get out of there and they elected John Lindsay? Um, do

spk_1:   32:14
we like John Lindsay?

spk_0:   32:16
A good New York man you find

spk_2:   32:18
nto? The modest society succeeded in getting Luke newly elected Mayor John Lindsay to end the campaign of police entrapment in New York City. So the society essentially got him to be like, Yeah, dude like this isn't cool. He ended that The only thing is is that while no laws prohibited serving six homosexuals, courts allowed the S L. A. Which is the New York State Liquor Authority. Discretion in approving and provoking liquor licenses for businesses that might become quote unquote disorderly

spk_1:   32:56
eyes. Can I just say, like, I can't stop thinking about the cops that would go out and do these entrapment missions Like I I wonder where some of them are like Like what? How they were later in their lives of their fucking somehow still around whatever. Like do do they regret it? Do they see how it is justify? Like, how

spk_2:   33:23
could you live with yourself? You? Your main job was to go out and try to tell somebody that they're gay and then arrest on like,

spk_1:   33:32
yeah, you were out there taking people's freedom away for them just being themselves. Being happy like that's so upsetting.

spk_2:   33:41
My God! God, I could not I could not, Could not This entire article, like when I was reading it, I was sweating profusely and I would turn to my boyfriend. I'd be like, Can you talking? But weak.

spk_1:   33:55
It is really like God. When you when you bring it down to like what it is at its base, it just is so stupid And it's so upsetting that anyone could be so upset over this in like, Ah, so

spk_2:   34:12
now we go to the Stonewall Inn, Um, which is located on 51 in 53 Christmas tree.

spk_1:   34:19
Oh, uh, a shout out to that intersection said,

spk_2:   34:24
Oh, yeah, I went to the I visited New York recently and I went to the Stonewall Inn. And just like being there, you could like, you felt like this electricity and like it's so so charged in right next their door there was, ah, pet store with, like, puppies in the window

spk_0:   34:47
charge like touch, get the gays, get the

spk_2:   34:50
gays drunk, and then they go next door and buy puppy.

spk_1:   34:53
How many puppies did you leave with? Four. I

spk_2:   34:57
wanted to leave with all of them, but my boyfriend was like, No, we have Bernie

spk_1:   35:01
and I'm like, I'm Ottmar so burning in so many sibling like she's

spk_2:   35:07
so alone. But, um, so Stonewall Inn was a gay bar, Of course. In New York City, it was owned by the Genevieve's crime family. So it was only by the Mafia.

spk_1:   35:18
We heard the Mafia was coming and s So this is

spk_2:   35:22
where it's actually really interesting. The Mafia and the gay community had, like, this. Um, this this'll relationship together. What is the college by Alec? Where

spk_0:   35:36
bio sis like

spk_2:   35:38
Esso. They were kind of dependent on each other.

spk_0:   35:42
Stonewall it is bio sis, isn't it? Is it

spk_1:   35:47
Isn't the

spk_0:   35:47
idiotic symbiote and son Justin Bio sis is what the processes. Okay,

spk_1:   35:53
say symbiotic four more times, and then take a hit of whatever you've got in front of you

spk_0:   35:58
say crack on my time.

spk_2:   36:02
So, um, three members of the Mafia invested $3500 to turn stone wall into a gay bar. So the gays needed a place to drink and the mafia and needed a place to run business. So people

spk_0:   36:19
don't want to go to gay bars. Acceptable, I guess. Hey, folks, we're both We're both on the other side of the team up,

spk_2:   36:28
You know what I mean? So we're gonna

spk_0:   36:29
wait, We'll go dancing, we'll give you

spk_2:   36:31
a couple of drinks, and then you

spk_0:   36:32
just kind of like,

spk_2:   36:33
you know, do your own thing. We're gonna do our own thing.

spk_0:   36:35
What's this relationship calls a call? Symbiotic. We're going to get it done.

spk_1:   36:40
I just try to imagine the SAS level of whichever of like like, the gay side was like the leader there And, like, organized all this and worked it all out. Or like whoever. Whoever did things for the group, like running back, you would have to be a pretty ballsy person to go and have those kinds of discussions with those kind of people that right? Like right? It was Yeah, like, this is really a crime family.

spk_0:   37:07
Also shadow to them, love you guys. So basically,

spk_2:   37:12
what was happening is they were using gay bars as a way to make money because the gays didn't have any place to go. So they would. The gays would go spend money on drinks, and the Mafia would pay off police to not raid their spot.

spk_1:   37:28
I was just gonna ask that, like so, did they offer them protection? Because that's like how this works, right? Yeah, Fine.

spk_2:   37:39
So for now, it's dope. I know. I'm gonna write on the parade. That's

spk_1:   37:46
okay. I feel like I'm in, like like watching one of my favorite mob movies right now. So I'm like, really getting excited, even even though it's it's a no.

spk_2:   37:55
So the stone wall and was essentially the only bar for gay men in New York City Thio that allow dancing. Um, so the gays just ran to their um So just to give you kind of like if you were to walk into the door of the stone wall during that time, um, you're greeted by a bouncer who inspected them through a peephole in the door. The legal drinking age was 18. And to avoid on only letting in undercover police officer who they called Lily La Alice Blue Gown or Betty BEJ, visitors would have to be known by the doorman or look gay. The entrance fee on the weekends is $2 for which the customer received to take A that could be exchanged for two drinks. Patrons were required to sign their names in the book to prove that the bar was a private quote unquote bottle club, but really signed her real name's. There were two dance floors in the Stonewall. The interior was painted black, making it very dark inside with pulsing joe lights or black lights. If police were spotted, regular white lights were turned on, signaling that everyone should stop dancing or touching on the rear of the bar was a smaller room, frequent and frequented by queens. It was one of two bars where effeminate men who wore makeup and tease the hair um could go real due to fucking get it. Hi. The higher the hair, the closer to God. So only a few transvestites or men in full drag were allowed to end by the bouncer. The customers were 98% male, but a few lesbians sometimes came to the bar. The bar also let Ah lot of homeless youth come in and loved the homeless use youth. That kind of like, you know, have a moment to just kind of like, not realize that they were homeless for a bit and people lot of drinks and stuff. So they were.

spk_1:   39:57
That's an interesting twist.

spk_2:   39:59
Yeah, interesting toil. So they allowed homeless people in to get get drinks.

spk_0:   40:04
A big part of the homeless community is, you know, also overlaps with the LGBT community because it is kids kicked out of home and

spk_1:   40:12
there were all those people losing jobs and shit like cheese.

spk_2:   40:17
So now we're going to go to the police raid the raid that started it all um, So it was Saturday at around 1 20 June 28th 1969

spk_0:   40:34
four. What time is that? Right now? One for the money. It's 1 13 That's only that. It's kind of it's kind of eerie. Spooky was in the moment. We're very in the moment. Wow. Four police

spk_2:   40:49
for policemen dressed in plain clothes, dark suits, two patrol officers in uniform, and Detective Charlie Smith and Deputy you Deputy Inspector Seymour Pine arrived at the Stonewall double doors. Ah, they announced they were police. They went into the stone wall and they started doing the raid. Ah, the raid was basically what happened Was this when a police would raid the bar, Um, or any bar in New York City at that time you were toe line up and you were to have your identification out. Okay, If you were suspected of being gay. Oh, are you were dressing in women's clothes and you were men. Um, if you were in feminine, anything like that, immediately put into

spk_0:   41:38
the battle wagon and that was that was a big one. Women

spk_2:   41:42
were definitely on top, like, especially if the individual wasn't passing, they would definitely just be put up at the same time. If you had any makeup on and you had masking the future's at all, you were just put into the paddy wagon and you were sent to jail. Wow. Um, so after that, the police would leave, and, ah, lot of the bars at the time when they would leave, they would actually take the alcohol with them. So a lot of bars at

spk_0:   42:12
the time they would take the the all call alcohol. So

spk_1:   42:18
goes with, um Yeah, so they extra dick move the

spk_2:   42:24
the bar management. Knowing this had trucks down the street full of alcohol that they would, they would, like, stop the music. They'd be like, Hold on, guys, give us 10 minutes. Stock the bar back up and whack. It was business as usual. So

spk_1:   42:38
that's badass. They were just prepared for them to be terrible people old.

spk_0:   42:43
They knew their mafia. It's their Mafia

spk_1:   42:45
upbringing that makes sense to

spk_2:   42:49
Yeah, they were. They knew they were like, Oh, no, we got this

spk_1:   42:52
way. So at the at the

spk_2:   42:55
time, in stone wall, when it was being rated, there was 205 people in the bar that night. Um, patrons who had never experienced the police raid were confused because the stone wall wasn't rated at all. So people who only frequented that bar when the flutes came in there was a panic because they didn't know what was happening. Yeah. Um, so the police officers bart the doors so people couldn't get out. So the the the ray did not go as planned. Standard procedure was the lineup patrons. Like I told you, I'm in various verify their sex. Um, police decided to take everyone present there that time. The police station.

spk_1:   43:40
Everyone. How many did you say? 200. And some two

spk_2:   43:42
105 people only. Shit. So a lot of people were just fearful because they visit is their second life and to be arrested because of homosexuality. They they panicked. Um, so there was kind of like this this energy that went through that, you know, this wasn't gonna go well, and people started to panic. Both patrons and police recalled that a sense of discomfort spread very quickly and that spurred it was spurred by police who began toe assault some of the lesbians by feeling some of them up appropriately. So the police were to transport the bars, alcohol in patrol wagons, 28 cases of beer and 19 bottles of hard liquor were seized. But the put But the patrol wagons had not yet arrived, so the patrons were required to wait in line for about 15 minutes. Those who are not arrested yet we're told to wait on the side of the street, Um, and said they went outside and they they started a crowd. And within minutes, between 101 101 150 people had congregated outside, some after they were released from inside the stone wall because they kept the effeminate men. Um, and the people dressed in women's clothing, the men dressed in women's clothing, they kept them inside. So anybody who was, you know, just essentially gay was put outside. Um, so the police officers started to push and kick people s o there was assaulting, and then that's when the crowds where were just like we're gonna fucking do something about this. So I started chanting, Wrists were limp, hair was primped, and reactions to the applies were classic. On dhe we shall overcome. People started singing, which is unknown. Um song. Uh, that was sung during, like, the slave when ah, slavery was legal. Um, so police knowing that, you know, we need to do something. They actually took the Mafia, the bartenders and any Mafia members. They started to put them in the wagons or an arrest them first, because they saw they thought that they were kind of egging on the problem. Um, so, you know, going on people or for still outside. Um, the crowds were just coming growing because people, it was like 1 20 So people were still partying. People were still wanting to go to stone Well, and they weren't allowed in, so they were just congregating outside

spk_0:   46:38
like that. What's this crowd? Can we get in way? This is This is a raid. I guess we're all being arrested. What? Just what Can we walk away? You walk away way

spk_1:   46:55
dancing outside today like what's going on? Oh, so,

spk_2:   46:58
um, admin? White was an author who was who lived on the street at the time, and he noted, he was quoted everyone's restless, angry and high spirited. No one. No one has a slogan. No one even has an attitude. But something's brewing um, So that's when the crowd started picking up pennies, taking pennies out of their pocket and throwing them at police officers on. Then beer bottles

spk_0:   47:24
were thrown at the wagons

spk_2:   47:25
as rumor spread through the crowd that patrons still inside the bar were being beaten. Oh, wow. A scuffle broke out when a woman in handcuffs was escorted from the door of the bar to the waiting police wagon. Several times she escaped repeatedly and fought with four of the police swearing and shouting for about 10 minutes. Um,

spk_1:   47:48
did they get her? Did they wind up arresting her?

spk_2:   47:50
Yeah, they wanted putting her into the wagon. Um, buy it at that time as soon as they put it in the wagon. That's when this, like, not actual explosive explosive explosion, but, like just the crowd exploded. Um, so the crowd started attacking the police. The police tried to restrain some of the crowd, knocked a few people down, which incited the bystanders. Even Maur. Some of those who were handcuffed in the wagon, escaped when police left them unattended. The crowd overturned the police wagons, Um, slashing tires on. It was just full on chaos. There was

spk_0:   48:35
a rebellion. It was rebounding right at

spk_2:   48:37
that time because they were taking so long to getting people out of the bar. And they wanted to arrest 205 people.

spk_1:   48:44
Yeah, that's got quite a fucking process.

spk_2:   48:47
The crowd grew from 100 to 600 people, so yeah, you know, And the police were outnumbered. There was, I think, like eight police officers at the time.

spk_1:   49:00
We should

spk_0:   49:00
go awry like, Well, we're gonna arrest you. All were waiting on the trucks, but everyone just stay here.

spk_2:   49:07
Yeah, and funny. Not funny. Two policewomen were there when at that time policewomen were not allowed to have batons. Oh, no. Any form of defence? Because

spk_1:   49:26
what Right? Get todo

spk_2:   49:28
right Tickets. That's what the remains.

spk_1:   49:32
Okay, So you can come with on this assignment. It could be dangerous. We're gonna rest a lot of people. But you don't need a weapon or anything. No big deal. The mob is involved in this. Yes, but you don't need a weapon. Silly woman. All you need is a sandwich. Do

spk_0:   49:45
you have? Do you have a pen? Just make it go. Oh, my God. She has a pencil.

spk_2:   49:51
It's not sharp. It

spk_1:   49:54
s so I can hear the noise of that dull pencil on one of those little flipping. No books, like I can I can hear it in my mind right now. Terrible.

spk_0:   50:05
We daughter. You're reading this down, sweetheart. Certificates like wear a bell. Stop. Guys were rebelling right now.

spk_1:   50:15
Way are rebelling against the rebellion right now. Fuck it. Branching off for a moment. Value. Need to hit your pan. Riley, did you finish that whole joint?

spk_0:   50:26
Okay, so what I did was his half of it. Because literally, I am dying. I'm over here just like in. So, like, I'm like, Oh, every Oh, God. When I hear when he just talks about, like, the actual harassment that's happening and gets me so way like it gets it gets worse. Very like my own J.

spk_2:   50:54
Um, there was a police officer who was watching this. He was inside the bar because the police thought police officers actually barricaded themselves inside the bar because the crowd was so violent outside and the police officer got on the phone. And I quote, the faggots are overturning zone.

spk_0:   51:15
I'm getting I'm getting I want that. I want that as attentive I

spk_2:   51:18
want That is a T shirt like faggots overturning like, Oh, my

spk_0:   51:22
God. I like So the fact that I Okay, that's

spk_1:   51:26
just writing it down. Right on

spk_0:   51:28
that. Yeah. Uh huh. Am great. Moving up.

spk_2:   51:33
So inside the stone wall, there was an officer who was injured because of the crowd. Um, he was struck by fine debris. Um, so their cars outside were overturned smash windows. They were embarrassed. They were like, Wow, you know, this community that we put off a CZ being weak is actually doing something.

spk_1:   51:55
Yeah, they should be fucking embarrassed.

spk_2:   51:58
They radioed in for the tp f, which is the technical patrol force. Mom s O.

spk_1:   52:06
That's like slot.

spk_2:   52:08
Yeah, essentially the SWAT team. Ah, the tpf formed of failings when they got their toe attempt to clear the streets by marching slowly in pushing the crowd back, the mob openly mocked the police. The crowd cheered, started

spk_1:   52:23
they started kick lines. That s fantastic.

spk_2:   52:32
The Ta Ra Ra boom de ay Do you know the Kerala Boom di ay Did it did? It s so it was We are the stone Mo girls. We wear our hair in curls. We don't wear underwear. We show our pubic hair. So they're chanting this in a kick line at the police officers who were full on, like, armored up

spk_1:   52:52
S

spk_2:   52:53
O. That's when everything just went wild. They were The police started rushing them, beating him with nightsticks. Jeez, um, and you know, there was an individual was quoted, um, I lost my place, but I just can't ever get that one site out of my mind. The cops were We're with nightsticks and the kick line on the other side. It was the most amazing thing. And all of a sudden, that kick line, which I guess was a spoof on the machi ism Maki is, um, Markham is mo. I don't even I just, like, lost my word. I can't even like, think right now,

spk_0:   53:33
basically was masculinity, I think. Not much machismo. There you

spk_1:   53:40
go. That's like, that's a

spk_2:   53:43
$400 word right there.

spk_1:   53:45
I was really? I figured out what it was I think to two attempts in, but I was really enjoying my struggle. I really enjoyed it with this

spk_2:   53:59
kick line. That's when the police, you know, I got this rage and the ah they felt the rage because people were getting smashed with bats. And for what? A kick line. So they felt this rage and started just literally beating the shit out of these people in this kick line. So it's full on war right now in front of these Stonewall the Stonewall riots. They went on for two nights. Um, the bar stayed open the entire time, and it wasn't until, like, a couple years later that, um, they actually closed down. Really? Um, you know, there was dozens of people that were hospitalized. Four police officers were injured. And that's only on the first night. So the second night of rioting, Um, it basically was the same thing. People just in front of stone, all pro testing, you know,

spk_0:   54:54
Christopher Street. Just like, yeah. Large graffiti on the walls

spk_2:   54:58
basically saying dragon louder. Our drag powder on my drag power. They invaded our rights support. Gay power legalized gay bars. Me

spk_0:   55:09
gay do crimes.

spk_2:   55:10
So a lot of a lot of people thought that the Stonewall riots were caused by the Black Panthers because this all happened while the civil rights movement was going on. So they thought it was just the black Panthers coming in trying to, like, you know, mix up the cop, the powder, CAG, and light it on fire. But it was full. I'm the gays, Theo. LGBT plus community. We're just fucking done with the police invading their areas where they wanted to just have a moment of of love and happiness And

spk_0:   55:44
they were like an over it. And she wanted to exist, want exactly

spk_2:   55:49
they wanted to exist and they wanted to just not be a stigma for a moment. And it's just reading it. I was just like, you know, I go to gay bars like I you know, I have a boyfriend and I walked with him in public like none of this was seen as is. It was all illegal back at that time, and it was going on until about. I think it was like 19 seventies into the eighties where this was still going on in it. When you look back, that's 30 years ago. Like, that's what's scary is that this all you know are legalization of marriage and all that stuff was just recent. So you time, they just the spark Put yourself in like perspective, you know, just kind of like, Wow, you know, this world we live in is just crazy. It's insane.

spk_0:   56:51
So, yeah, there was the decriminalization or the process that started the process of for decriminalization of homosexuality in India. That's going on.

spk_2:   57:01
Yeah, that just happened. Like, um, gay ce I said gay sex. But it's, you know, the LGBT community, you know, effectively. But you know, the articles air saying gay sax is is now legal in India. And that was, like, two days ago. And, you know, it's it's so funny that, you know, ah, lot of people who are against homosexuality there first thing that they go to is, you know Oh, well, look it over there. There, you know, they kill people for whom I have it good here.

spk_1:   57:34
The amount of times that you get that, like, that awful bullshit of like, Well, comparatively, you're you're just fine, aren't you? Uh, it's really not that bad. It's terrible over there.

spk_0:   57:46
People, people that I love when they say, pick your battles and I'm like, Okay, so I picked this

spk_1:   57:51
Exactly. Dylan, keep this going battle and commend lets you going on. And that's the

spk_2:   57:58
thing is we're very, very. You know, you pick your choose one idea and stick and only being on that idea and fight for that one thing. And I think that's where we have so much separation, especially within the LGBT plus community is you know where

spk_0:   58:17
we were. So

spk_2:   58:18
we're so kind of like, um, we need to worry about our own problems and our own things, and they need to understand that, or we need to understand is a community that we are all part of this. This is so much bigger than just gays or lesbians or bisexual Sze or transgender people. Or, you know, people who are a sexual. You know, allies, whatever. This is so much bigger than just one singular, subcategory sub community of a community. And once we all get on the same page and we fight for each other and we fight for our, you know, our transit rob people of color who are being murdered, the murder Wait, Ray of trans women of color is insane. It's bad. So it's, you know, I think going into this, you know, the Stonewall riots reading it and just realizing that that bar served Maur towards you know gay white men, but another, you know, the marginalized people. You know, the people of color effeminate men, uh, drag queens, people who are transgender. They went to this bar as well. And they were They went because they were They felt part of that community. And, you know, they were the ones that were being apprehended. It wasn't the gay white men. It was. It was those few that were being apprehended. So essentially, we just I think as a community just seemed to get outsiders ourselves and and just realize that to change we need to extend our arms and hands and embrace our sub communities and embrace the people who are marginalized more than us, where a marginalized community is gay. White men we are why there are people who are getting it so much worse, and we're not making it any better for them. And once we get to that realization of like, wow, this is so fucked up and we all embrace and come together, that's when we're gonna have changed. That's when we're going to see change. And I I just I hope I can be a part of that that moment that movement because it's gonna be so amazing.

spk_1:   1:0:44
Bye. We're off track. That's how these go, man.

spk_0:   1:0:48
I know it's so easy to converse is fun,

spk_2:   1:0:52
man. Yeah, they really are. So, anyway, you know, second day of riots, fighting, burning garbage is on fire. The stone wall was actually on fire, but they put it out. Um, so these riots essentially started the gay rights movement. Um, So afterwards, they ended the next day after the second riot on and then the stone wall was closed and up for rent. Um, so after that, organizations like the Mata Society, um, the daughters of Bill itis. Elias, um, more community started opening up. There was a gay liberation front that opened up in and was created and a lot of their slogans. A lot of their campaigns where focused on what happened at Stonewall. Ah, One of the slogans where the word is out. Christopher Street, which stonewall was located. Christopher Street shall be liberated. The fags have had it with oppression. So the aftermath, um, the rebellion Ah, course create organizations. On July 4th, 1969 the modest society perform its annual picketing in front of Independence Hall in Philadelphia called the annual reminder. Um, the organizer's the annual reminder Organizer's Ah Craig Rod, while Frank Kam une Randy Wicker Barbara Gettings in K Lan Husin had all participated for several years, took a bus along with other picketers from New York City, the Philadelphia since 1965 the pickets had been very controlled, women wore skirts and men wore suits in ties, and all marched quietly in organized lines. This year, Rodwell remembered feeling restricted by the rules. Um, that had been set when two women spontaneously held hands. Campania, who was one of the guys that led to the organization, broke them apart, saying none of that. None of that. Rodwell, however, convinced about 10 couples to hold hands. The handholding couples who made Kemeny furious. But they earned more press attention than all of the previous marches. So this is where kind of like the affection came into it where they were like Maybe we need to show this in public. Maybe people need to see this, that

spk_1:   1:3:38
we're just normal people and holding, Yeah, something I do all the time. They do it too. Why

spk_0:   1:3:45
don't I just don't want you just don't need to, like, force it on me. You know, like you know, I'm okay if

spk_2:   1:3:50
you're gay, but I don't want it. I don't want

spk_0:   1:3:52
to see Oh, you know, like it's not like a normal culture, you know, romanticizes heterosexual.

spk_1:   1:3:59
I will degenerative. Just this past week, I actually heard the words they even kiss in public here, like all the time. And I was like, Wow, that's that's so shocking. What? Ah, what a horrific thing for a person to do with another person that they like. Blasphemy. Yeah.

spk_2:   1:4:24
So from that Maur bars were being rated. There was a bar called the Snake Pit. It was rated and 167 people were arrested.

spk_1:   1:4:36
Snake pits of my name. This thing it's make for Penis. Here's what they were wearing. That's what I was thinking. I imagined a really funny logo in my head.

spk_2:   1:4:50
So after that, the gay activist alliance formed within six months after the Stonewall riots they formed. They had a citywide new newspaper called Quote Gay unquote. Very simple. Straight to the point. Get your message across. Boom. Okay, So gay, Gay. So they were. They were basically there to kind of organize. They posted when, um, protests would go on when you know, uh, they had forums for activism, and they held, like, weekly meetings on, you know. What are we going to do now? What are we gonna protest now? And that brings us to gay pride. Which happened, Chris. It was Christopher Street Liberation Day on June 28th 1970 marked the first anniversary of the Stonewall riots with an assembly on Christopher Street. Simultaneously, Gay pride marches in Los Angeles and Chicago. Chinatown. Yeah, they were. They were big on that. A lot of the bars that were rated in the article happened in Chicago as well, because Chicago kind of mirrored New York City when it came with two. Their laws and stuff. Ah, the new next year. Um, gay pride marches took place in Boston, Dallas, Milwaukee, London, Paris, West board, Berlin stock home the march in New York, Um, over 51 blocks, Christopher Street to central part. Damn. It took less than half the scheduled time, not due to the excitement of the marches, but because they were wary about walking through the city with gay banners and signs. Wow. Yeah. So they know they held this this march, but that that the fear of them being seen and gay was just

spk_1:   1:6:53
that I have been so scary,

spk_2:   1:6:55
so terrifying. But after that, um, it was it wasn't really I mean, there is no, like a sign like there's no organization that was like gay pride is gonna happen on this day. But Papa, So after Stonewall and after the first gay pride march, that's when people were like, you know, June months, the month of June, Definite needs to set the state because it's

spk_1:   1:7:21
like an anniversary thing.

spk_2:   1:7:23
Exactly. At the end of June, June 28th is when the riot started and the riots were the reason why. You know, the gay rights movement was just exploding. This just blew up in and became a forefront in the civil rights movement. So yeah, and it, you know, reading through it. It just it was mind boggling. And I I think I go back and I think, and I'm like, Wow, I definitely have it like I didn't live in that time. I don't have to worry about, you know, being arrested for my sexuality. You know, I'm able Thio to go out in public and where the clothing that I choose to wear. And I'm not ashamed of who I am as a person. And if I were in that time in the 50 60 seventies, I definitely would have been arrested. And you know I am. I'm I am. I say that I'm blessed because when people look at me, you know, we have this image of what gay looks like. And when people look at me, they see beard and big and, oh, he's a marinade noogies. So I definitely have the benefit of being able to go out in public and not have to worry about people messing with me. But there are a lot of people who aren't, and it's frightening because those are the people that are targeted. Um and I I say that we're lucky to be in this time, but word also. It's still frightening Davidians time because there are still people who look at the gay community as this. This this the scum in the in the swamp and they're just a group of disgusting sexual deviants and

spk_1:   1:9:18
oh, and the arguments that that people use that that link it thio, pedophilia and NBC Reality it's It's really upsetting.

spk_2:   1:9:28
And just recently there was, you know, there was there was a right. I don't mean to be political, but there was a right wing, like an all right wing, um, organization that put out like, uh, flyers about pedophiles wanting to add the p two, um, the LGBT Plus community. And it's just to kind of demoralize the gay community and and kind of bring back that image of like, No, we're not supposed to allow this.

spk_0:   1:10:04
So propaganda, folks propaganda. So, yeah, that's that's so when we

spk_2:   1:10:12
celebrate pride like, I think it's important that we're we remind ourselves that that we were that that happened. And when we look at people who are sexual izing pride and you know, going out in skimpy underwear and wearing nothing and understanding that that right there, we weren't able to do, And that's why it's important to do it because we can

spk_1:   1:10:42
And cause you fucking want to like that, Danny. Yeah, do whatever you want to do because you you can. You you deserve to do the things that make you happy, where the things that you like

spk_0:   1:10:53
and the idea that it's just sexualizing pride. It's sexualizing more than private, sexualizing the people entirely because when they're if they hold hands or if they kiss, it is so much different than you know. Ah, straight relationship. You know, it is an issue. There's this sexualization of, like the whole the whole group. It's not that's messy, You guys, it's messy, it's late and we're working on it.

spk_2:   1:11:18
It is. And it's, you know, I I grew up in a very small time, and I was the only open gay man in my high school, and I remember going to my locker and faggot was etched on my locker like and we had our school. We had, like, a system that happened to me in 10th grade. Well, I had the same locker till I graduated. Oh, I had a constant reminder when I went to my locker that who I am as a person is not okay. And being gay at that time was so frightening to me. So you know, that's why I'm so heavy on empowering you know, my community and empowering people and just be who the fuck you want to be because nobody else matters. Nobody else who is not providing a positive source of of empowerment matters, so just fuck them. Surround yourself with people that you love that support you decisions with them. Yeah, that's the chosen family is such an important thing because a lot of families, especially highly conservative religious families, you know, throw their Children out in. I realize that you don't need that. You know, if your family loves you and cherishes you amazing, cherish your fucking family and love your fucking family. But if not, there is. There are people out there that are going to love you no matter what. Yeah, and used to make your on those people, and they will support you.

spk_0:   1:12:59
I'm going to the person who's listening. Listening, Greg. Right now I'm going to do We're doing it together. Okay? Honestly, it's like in my throat.

spk_1:   1:13:08
You just brought it right to my eyeballs. Thanks a lot for that voice, Riley. Oh, my God. This is like, look at my my friend Taylor's wedding. We both told each other so many times before him, like, Don't you fucking cry. Don't you make that cries face at me. Don't you make that cry voice that mean and then, sure enough, during my speech I look over and she's cry facing at me. And I was like, you, Yeah, I have a picture of us ugly cry facing at each other. It's pretty great. We look, you monsters if you're

spk_2:   1:13:42
able to cry in front of somebody that is a true friend

spk_1:   1:13:46
I got right. This is this is a special moment. Guys,

spk_2:   1:13:51
this was amazing. This, you know, ends. I want to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak about this. And you also provided me the time to research. My community has passed and I've learned so much in, You know, I want to thank you for giving me the platform. And hopefully, you know, from the three of us, somebody is empowered and and good.

spk_1:   1:14:19
That would be pretty great right about Yes. I'm glad that you Ah, that you were the one for this episode two. I felt that this would be good. It's always fun whenever we play games together during stream and we wind up on these little tangents and have all these conversations because you, like Riley, are both like you're very insightful people. You've you've lead interesting lives you have a lot of interesting shit going on in those brains of yours. And when I wouldn't give either of you a chance to talk, I'm always, like, overly cool. Interesting. Wow, I did not know that. So I was ready to smoke a little bit and have my mind blown today.

spk_2:   1:14:58
Yeah, and there's only happened. Hopefully it provided some mind blowing.

spk_1:   1:15:02
Yeah, I had no idea that pride was based on an anniversary. I honestly thought that it was some kind of organized events. Like like a bunch of people with binders like the ones that Taylor cares around that have, like a ba jillion little tabs on them were like, Okay, this is the day. This is the theme, like, just everything was super laid out, but

spk_0:   1:15:21
it's starting to get very. It's starting a very commercialized these days. It is binder, it is binder prize.

spk_2:   1:15:31
You know, we can talk about that, too, because a lot of people are talking about the commercial commercialization of pride, which I at first was like, Oh, don't know Pepsi. Stay out of my pride. Or, you know, Nike, stay out of my pride. But when we look back at it. These organizations were the 1st 2 allow gay couples to have health insurance, and they were the first cos to allow, you know, gay couples, gay marriages, gay civil unions to be seen as legitimate. And when somebody told me that and put it in perspective to me, I was like, Okay,

spk_1:   1:16:16
so they really are allies. They're not just trying to profit off of,

spk_2:   1:16:20
There are some. There are some companies that you look at, and there's actually a kn article that actually lists out where the company stood at one point in time when it came to, uh, gay lesbian bi trans rights and all that stuff. So

spk_0:   1:16:39
where they stood, it was like, don't talk about it and talked about, like Target, for

spk_2:   1:16:45
example, they had in their policies, like, you know, if you're gay, don't show it. But now target is a gay mecca like target Wouldn't be target without the gays. So, you know,

spk_0:   1:16:57
the gays may do the gates in case

spk_1:   1:17:00
you know what's crazy. So, Jude, I swear people are gonna think I'm losing my mind with how often this show comes up. Okay, but Alex and I just finished. Really Well, like re watching for me. It was his first time watching it. We're watching Entourage, right? Which was one of my favorite shows for a long time. And I just feel so dumb that this keeps coming up. I compare everything in life's on trash now. Um, no, but what? I was very surprised by, like, I remembered Ari in all of his rants and how horrible so many of them were. But what I didn't realize was that the guys also had a lot of, like, homophobic remarks, and I There was one episode in particular that you just reminded me of where they were talking about some big party they were having. Do you has watched? Did you guys watch the show? Do you know the characters? If I talk about him, Yes. I

spk_2:   1:17:50
have no idea what you're talking about.

spk_1:   1:17:51
Okay, it's

spk_0:   1:17:52
I got a

spk_1:   1:17:53
great show. I'm glad that Riley's at least with me. So, Lloyd is this, um is gay. And he is this very powerful agent in Hollywood's assistant And the guys which is like this movie star in all of his buddies from New York are having this party, and Lloyd is all excited because they said that he can come And he was like, Oh, cool. Can my boyfriend come? And they were like, Yeah, but just don't kiss there anything or don't like don't touch each other or anything they told him, like, don't act gay at the party. And I was like, No, I loved you guys so much, but that

spk_2:   1:18:37
if you look back at media back in like the nineties in early two thousands it was very homophobic. There are episodes that I'm like If they played now, yes, Siri's would be burned to the ground

spk_1:   1:18:53
and on Dr Would not have survived now,

spk_0:   1:18:56
no Entourage. Entourage Isa is sort of this nice encapsulation of a very you know, like, intense sliver of masculine be, um but yeah, like, even shows like Will and Grace like there'll be an episode. You're like, Oh, this is transphobic, like, just casually transforming. Okay, Whoops. Stepping over that love

spk_1:   1:19:16
will and grace. I didn't watch any of the new

spk_0:   1:19:18
episodes right here, and that's the thing Is another part of the LGBT community, like exploding is like when I was growing up, it was like there are four quadrants. Okay, you can be. You can be a man or a woman and you can be gay or straight. That's what I thank you for bringing this out. It was very like open like it was open. I'm doing air quotes are now open because it was like, you're a child. You like, Declare it. Now you can talk about it. It's OK, you know, you can talk about it. And it was like, uh well, hold on. Just

spk_1:   1:19:51
so it was instead of a spectrum, it was it was a quadrant like you are this thing just

spk_0:   1:19:57
like you. And it was a big, you know, Like it was like, it's okay to be gay. You have to you But you have to say it out loud right now. Yeah, you had doesn't have

spk_2:   1:20:05
a B c d. That's it. You can on Lee fall into those categories. You cannot kind of mix.

spk_0:   1:20:11
It's so boring, guys. The spectrum's air so much more fun. Yeah, yeah, three old two genders mean and everything, but well, it just avoid Just

spk_2:   1:20:21
recently I actually have come to terms that, you know, going into something among the gay community, the LGBT plus community pronouns, and I was sitting with my boyfriend and it just kind of like hit me and I was like, You know, why do I define myself with masculine pronouns when I don't feel like they fit me? And I don't feel like feminine pronouns fit mean, And I just I don't feel like the pro knowns fit me because that's not who I am, you know.

spk_1:   1:20:57
They're very restrictive. They are. And that's the thing

spk_2:   1:21:01
is, you know, it goes off of social in gender norms that you need to fall into these certain categories and you need to, you know, uh, paint your picture this certain way, like your picture is painted, you know, it's colored by numbers and that's it. You need to follow those numbers to get the picture when really you know, I see myself is like, I want to paint my fucking picture. However, I want to paint my picture. If you want to say she pronoun at me, go right ahead because I'm going to respond to you. If you want to say he, I'm going to respond to you. If you're going to say they I'm going to respond to you. I I want to have my pictures, so I can kind of I want to take on all of it. I don't want to be, You know, he that's it. I'm going to wear men's clothes. That's it. Fuck that That's so restricting that it's

spk_1:   1:21:52
so they're just words that people came up with. Like you are a free flowing person. You get to do whatever you want, be whoever you want

spk_2:   1:22:00
And when. When you when you encompass that, when you take that in and you appreciate it and you love it, the world is so much more free. When you go into a store, you don't shop at one side, you shop it the bull side.

spk_1:   1:22:18
I've had the luxury of doing that because, like women kind of like our allowed thio. But, you know, men weren't at least like growing up, especially so like if I wanted to wear dude shirt, I'd be like, Well, they didn't have been girls, so I wanted it. You know,

spk_0:   1:22:33
Tom, Tom boys more accepted than like an effeminate Exactly. That's

spk_2:   1:22:40
because we have a negative. We we you know, the norm is very very against femininity and from an entity is fragile and femininity is seen as weak. So if you want to be a man, yeah, if you want to act like a man, that's perfectly fine. But if you act like a woman, know you're we s o it's God. We can go on for decades about this shit

spk_1:   1:23:06
we could you know what? I I was ah, I always thought they were stupid, like, you know, no offense. Anyone who's listening, who did him like, I have no beef with him, But I always thought it was just kind of silly gender reveal parties. Oh, yeah, And this was before I kind of started to understand the idea that, like everything is basically a spectrum. I always just thought it was silly, like, just just tell him if there has going like, oh, they found they found a little wind down there. It's kind of cool, like if you really want to tell people just telling that I never saw the need for the party. But it wasn't until recently that it started to become just, like, so ridiculous to me the way that some people do it like, Oh, we're having a boy. We've We've made a cake in the shape of a truck because he's he's a boy and he's gonna love trucks. Man, you know how boys d'oh

spk_2:   1:23:55
when they're born and you know they're fucking to one sold and they laugh at a woman or something. Oh,

spk_1:   1:24:04
man. So many girlfriends or

spk_2:   1:24:09
girl who? Ah, baby, who is pretty or not pretty, but with the fucking, like, a cute baby girl, they're like, Oh, she's got a You better lock her up in the bedroom. So she's 18

spk_1:   1:24:19
chastity belt because she's gonna have

spk_2:   1:24:21
the boys, like fucking kidding me like, uh, no, no, Don't like your girl

spk_1:   1:24:29
up letter Express yourself. We're fucking plonker sexuality and chastity belts here. Yeah, see, I have, like, the the opposite. I always always like friends with boys growing up because I wanted to do all the things that were supposedly boy things, you know, the tomboy thing. So then I was always told, like not to hang out with them, but also that if I didn't do the right things, they wouldn't want to hang out with me. Which is so funny, cause I was like, I'm already hanging out with them. What do you mean, they won't like me if I do these things. I'm already friends with them. You know they won't like you romantically, though. Boys don't want girls who do that kind of stuff. I'm like, Oh, fuck

spk_2:   1:25:11
or the opposite. You know, all those boys only like you because they wanna get like,

spk_1:   1:25:15
Oh, that's streaming on switch in a nutshell. Right there.

spk_2:   1:25:19
My God, it's just it's It's insane, you know? And a lot of it, too is. And this is me being a white man talking about women in general, and this is just an observation. You can take it with a grain of salt, but women need to start supporting other women. Yes, it is so insane that we have women who there is one girl who is, you know, comfortable in her sexuality. And then we have another girl going. No, she's a slut

spk_1:   1:25:50
because she shows x amount of skin because she discusses things in a sexualized manner. She is one of the bad girls. I am one of the good girls. Yeah, it really sucks that that happens. And I really think a good amount of the issues is is because that's like programmed in us from such a young age is like this This competition amongst Wayman's

spk_0:   1:26:15
it feels reactionary. Thio the women not respecting women is reactionary to society, not respecting women.

spk_1:   1:26:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

spk_2:   1:26:24
And also to e I mean, we see in the gay community, you know, within the gay community is definitely a very famous line that a lot of people will see is no fats, no fends, no colors, which is in profiles of white gay men and older, like Grindr profiles stating that they don't want any fat people. They don't want any guys who are feminine and they don't want anybody of color to have sexual relations with. Wow, that right there is a damning Like when I see that I was just like it sets you on fire.

spk_1:   1:27:01
I can imagine

spk_0:   1:27:02
fire. So the division in the in the communities as a whole, you know the way that there are people who receive more privileges just because, you know, they they're still cysts, you know, white men. And they don't necessarily champion the issues of other people in the room. And you know, that's an issue as well.

spk_1:   1:27:28
This is These are the types of conversations that can lead to so many conversations that just, like, get all of us all worked up, like for real? No, because, yeah, I think about it all the time. Especially because it is something that, like I deal with. And I like that when you talk about some of these issues, you acknowledge your privilege because I try to contemplate and acknowledge mind frequently because, you know, being a member of various marginalized communities but also being like what most people would view is just a white woman like it definitely helps me.

spk_2:   1:28:01
I mean, you're and I say this in the most polite way, but you're passing.

spk_1:   1:28:06
Yeah, exactly.

spk_2:   1:28:07
You can. If you can pass as the majority, you're safe. But if you fall outside those lines, you are a target. And, you know, I I pride myself as being a person of protection. And if at all, I see one of these people who are marginalized being attacked, I'm going to be the first. I'm going to have your back. I'm going to have your fucking shoulder. I'm going to support you. I'm gonna pick you up if you want. I'll fucking tear this person apart for

spk_1:   1:28:40
you camp? Well, not the things

spk_2:   1:28:43
that you know. I'm also going to realize that I'm not going to do it unless you asked me. And I'm not going to. This isn't going to be my like I'm not going to take this over is my problem. Because I don't see this problem. I don't I don't face this problem. I don't face racism. I

spk_0:   1:29:02
don't feel like they're bigger problems. You know, there are a lot bigger problems like Well, this is a problem. Yeah, This This is what we're gonna tackle right now. We're gonna do this. These issues these days, you don't negate each other. You're gonna be working on two things. Same time. Yeah, multitasking, civil rights. Let's do this. Ready, set, go. It's done. I wish

spk_2:   1:29:25
it was that easy to snap of the fingers

spk_1:   1:29:28
on. Then suddenly, ignorance All this willful fucking ignorance is just

spk_2:   1:29:32
gone. Yes, And thing Thio, I don't mean to go on tangents, but you're bringing up points and I'm like, Oh, let me talk on that. But when it comes to education, I think that's that should be the first thing. Educate yourself. Don't be afraid to ask you no questions if you if you feel ignorant on an issue like it is okay to say I am ignorant, I don't know anything about this. And I'm going to educate myself on this.

spk_1:   1:30:01
Don't do it in the form of an argument when you're belittling someone and then be like, Well, show me the facts, prove it to me, you know, go and find some shit out on your own guys. Or like, in a polite way, Riley, I'm glad that you were. You were always there for me on that. By the way, I wouldn't a lot

spk_2:   1:30:16
from you. My biggest thing. Thio. Somebody asked me why gay men say faggot, and it's OK for them. And, you know, ah, lot of people instantly would be like, Oh, you can't you fuck you. You can't say that Word of about that, but I educated that person. I was like, you know, faggot was a derogatory term. You know, back in medieval times, you know, faggot was a bundle of sticks that was used during the witch burnings. But before they burned the witches, they burned suspected homosexuals in a pile of sticks. Wow. So they called it a faggot because of that. So it was used derogatory within, you know, the next coming decades, you know, And then the gay community took it back and we took that word back. And we use it within our community because it's our word. Essentially, you know it. But it's like I framed in a way that, you know, if a guy if your girlfriend was be like a bitch, like you would be okay with that because she's your friend and she called you bitch and you know what she meant. But if a guy came over and said, Yo, bitch, you would be like,

spk_1:   1:31:26
Excuse me, motherfucker, there would be so, like some words,

spk_2:   1:31:30
you know, it's the same bling, you know, It's just that you claim that word we've claimed this word

spk_1:   1:31:36
I saw how fucking sweet that said something to the extent of Ah, when a woman calls another woman's sweetie, she hates her. But when she calls her bitch, it means they're best friends. And I attacked Ming right away and was like,

spk_2:   1:31:50
That's like when someone goes, Hey, sweetie, like you're like, Whoa, this will be a fight.

spk_1:   1:31:54
Yeah, exactly. I'm taking my earrings off as I am. Like, as she's finishing the word I'm like, Okay, What was that? What was that? You called me. Excuse me, bitch. And that bitch has turned. But when it's a greeting bun, bitches always friendly. What a bitch! Yeah. Stupid bitch. Yeah. My friends always do that, You little bitch. You like crying? Exactly.

spk_2:   1:32:24
Oh, my God. This is amazing.

spk_1:   1:32:26
This was amazing. Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad

spk_0:   1:32:29
you're all right looking a lot more

spk_1:   1:32:31
free, and we were able to lock this down for today. I woke up in a good mood knowing that this was gonna be a good pot guest.

spk_2:   1:32:37
I woke up, had my McDonald's because I was creating McDonald's and they go. I know, I was just listening. It was good going down. And I was like,

spk_1:   1:32:50
1000

spk_2:   1:32:52
1000 calories for one tiny

spk_1:   1:32:54
sandwich. Just don't eat anything till next year. No, not really.

spk_0:   1:32:59
McDonald's satisfies. That's their That's their new slogan. McDonald's status status.

spk_1:   1:33:03
I had McDonald's, McDonald's. I had the worst day of my trip. E i randomly wanted a McGriddle if I never have ordered a McGriddle from the menu and I randomly was like, I need this. It's a pancake sandwich. It was delicious. Spun until a few minutes later when I was like, Why is my stomach so much bigger now? Why? Loaded? Like a fucking

spk_0:   1:33:29
hold on. He's like

spk_1:   1:33:30
a son. And when I'm in orbiting something

spk_2:   1:33:35
Oh, gosh, it's amazing. This is fun. I enjoy this. I hope that Yeah, I hope that I'm allowed to come

spk_1:   1:33:43
back. Oh, my God. Of course, we can definitely find more things to talk about The three of us

spk_0:   1:33:48
on another subject.

spk_1:   1:33:49
Yeah, like we could talk about McDonald's and how it bloats us. And we love it so

spk_0:   1:33:54
great. I have I have a movie way.

spk_1:   1:33:58
God, no, I'm not ready. I'm not ready for the real knowledge of wide destroying my insides. I don't eat it very often. All right? This is the part where you guys plug your socials. Valley go

spk_2:   1:34:10
first social Valukas on Tumblr on twitch on instagram umbilicus V as in Victor A l. Why, As in yogurt K A s, um, I'm on also

spk_0:   1:34:27
swat as you

spk_2:   1:34:29
so you can find me there If you have questions

spk_1:   1:34:32
he's like famous on instagram y'all

spk_2:   1:34:34
It's I haven't posted in so long Because I'm going through, like, a fat phase right now. And I'm just like, this

spk_1:   1:34:40
is my face like you get anything else. That's how you know what?

spk_2:   1:34:46
Yeah, but find me there. If you want to, you know, talk. I will be there on any of those. You message me if you want to tell me that I'm stupid for getting information wrong. If you want to correct me, get me there. I tried. My best

spk_1:   1:35:01
Valley is the champion of ugly, poor people. By the way,

spk_2:   1:35:04
I am the champion of the poor people.

spk_1:   1:35:08
He's my hero. No, I

spk_2:   1:35:10
love you too. And, you know, again, thank you for just being a dominant voice of positivity and just everything. You know, I go into your streams and, you know, even if I just spend 10 minutes in there, I'm automatically in a better mood. I'm happy, I'm excited. And I feel everybody in that community is just so amazing. And we benefit so much from you. And I just want to thank you for that.

spk_1:   1:35:41
That makes me so happy. I want you to feel amped up because I get all amped up on life. These days and then when other people also get amped up it, like, amplifies my amp. And I'm like, Everything is amazing. Hey, that's when I was texting you and Ming yesterday. Riley's It was in one of those modes were like Tomcat. I was hanging out with him in Los Angeles, and he was all just like, man, life is good And I was like, Life is fucking good. We're hanging out in a park, just smoking a joint, like having a good conversation and just like, damn life is good. And I was in such a good mood I had to text you guys like guys. I hope you're fucking happy right now. It's when I tweeted out like I'm sending you all good vibes. I literally sat there and had, like, a conscious thought like I want hold everyone in the community right now to feel the way that I'm feeling cause I was just like cloud9 not just from how high I was, but because, like, a good day, life is good. Yeah, it's saved it. All right, we're back. We're back. Right? Riley, drop your socials.

spk_0:   1:36:49
Uh, Riley, hot sauce. You know where to find me. everywhere I look.

spk_1:   1:36:53
Thank you again. Tunes. This was amazing.

spk_0:   1:36:56
Thanks, Allie. This is fun. No,

spk_2:   1:36:58
thank you, guys. Thank you. It was great. And again, I hope there's more opportunities for us to sit down and and just shit with our mouths.

spk_1:   1:37:10
Words So many of them are thrown at

spk_0:   1:37:12
you, Mama. Right. Word Gee's got e.