Mart is the analyst known as Yellowbull (@Yellowbull11) on Twitter. He writes a biweekly newsletter covering relevant news in the uranium sector, coverage of uranium companies, sample portfolios and much more.
Mart’s Twitter: @Yellowbull11
Mart’s Newsletter: https://www.patreon.com/contrariancodex
Vasanth’s Twitter: @NextVasanth
Vasanth’s Newsletter: https://nextbite.substack.com/
Time stamps:
00:34 - Approach to researching companies
04:45 -Jurisdictional impact on investing
07:15 - Getting exposure to the Chinese market
10:24 - Seasonality/contracting
13:37 - EU Taxonomy
17:01 - Public sentiment in Europe
18:33 - Kazatomprom
22:25 - How do Uranium ETFs determine which mining companies need to be sold and which ones need to be bought?
24:54 - Interest rate yields
27:15 - Impact form retail traders
30:02 - Keys to writing a successful paid newsletter
32:15 - What’s a topic in this field that you feel isn’t discussed enough?
34:24 - Strongest bear case against Uranium
Intro Music: "Pain is the Essence" remix by @AdiSoundsGood on Twitter
Disclaimer: The contents in this episode is for informational purposes only, you should not construe any such information or other material as legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice.
Mart is the analyst known as Yellowbull (@Yellowbull11) on Twitter. He writes a biweekly newsletter covering relevant news in the uranium sector, coverage of uranium companies, sample portfolios and much more.
Mart’s Twitter: @Yellowbull11
Mart’s Newsletter: https://www.patreon.com/contrariancodex
Vasanth’s Twitter: @NextVasanth
Vasanth’s Newsletter: https://nextbite.substack.com/
Time stamps:
00:34 - Approach to researching companies
04:45 -Jurisdictional impact on investing
07:15 - Getting exposure to the Chinese market
10:24 - Seasonality/contracting
13:37 - EU Taxonomy
17:01 - Public sentiment in Europe
18:33 - Kazatomprom
22:25 - How do Uranium ETFs determine which mining companies need to be sold and which ones need to be bought?
24:54 - Interest rate yields
27:15 - Impact form retail traders
30:02 - Keys to writing a successful paid newsletter
32:15 - What’s a topic in this field that you feel isn’t discussed enough?
34:24 - Strongest bear case against Uranium
Intro Music: "Pain is the Essence" remix by @AdiSoundsGood on Twitter
Disclaimer: The contents in this episode is for informational purposes only, you should not construe any such information or other material as legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice.
Welcome to another episode of age of information. My guest today is mark Walbert. Also known as yellow bowl 11 on Twitter. Mark is an analyst in the uranium space and hosts a biweekly uranium newsletter called the contrarian codex. I will link both of these his Twitter profile as well as the contrarion codex in the show notes. So mark, welcome to the. Thank you very much for having me looking forward to discussing uranium manipulators today. Great. So, you know I think a great place to start this is to get your approach to investing. I think there's a lot of information asymmetry in uranium. And so what that means is you know, information isn't widely distributed or efficiently distributed. And so I'm curious to know, you know, how do you approach researching companies in uranium? How do you find your edge? I would say that it's very important to really really make sure that you get the right company because that's, that speaks for itself. Right. But I think that's very underestimated, especially as bull market matures. I think I tweeted something along those lines today as well, that the higher the price goes higher and the secret upward trajectory gets, the more companies will be entering this space. We're at roughly 80. 85 companies. Right now we had 500 companies around 500 companies at the peak of the last bull market. I think we may reset number again because when something is hot, everybody wants to participate. So that's why due diligence is so important. And we need to do due diligence, not only to find the right opportunities, but also to build a necessary confection because with the amount of volatility we are seeing in the radio, With 20, 30% swings, every say every few bonds and 10% swings almost every week. If not every day, sometimes you really need to have that confection in place. So how do I go about picking the right companies while I look at the three key things, first of all, look for an experienced management team. I want a management team that has. mine into production or develop you or any mind, or really explored and found uranium. I don't want a management team that has developed a gold deposit somewhere in south America. And is now looking for uranium in the alphabet basins. You want relevant experience. And I also want them to of course, be aligned with shareholders all the large, or at least a significant part of the company. So that if sh if shareholder value is created, they benefit from it. Just as much, if not more than the shareholders of the company. The second thing I'm looking for is just the quality of the assets, because a good management team gets you very far, but a good asset. It's just necessary to get that extra edge. And I think it's important to look at things like cure section, but also has this area or this district historically been a good place to mind. Or explore for uranium fix like the Athabaska basin, but also Namibia are two very, very good places to, for very good examples of that. And the first one is, it sounds very simple but simple, but they need to have a good plan because you need to have a company that has really focused. On. All right, we got this asset. We're going to do this and this and this with it. We're not going to Duluth for the sake of having the ability to buy a fancy suit or a better car. No, we, what we are going to raise capital to make sure that the effort mentioned shareholder value is brought to the table. So those three things I think are very key and how I would go about constructing the uranium portfolio. But you could go for URL, U R N N, ETF. Which is good. It's a pure play ETF and it's it's the main ETF I would personally go for. But if you're not going for that, I think that most investors will be best served in trying to go for what I described as a pyramid approach, where you start with like the main building blocks and bigger companies, those with the best of the best developers, producers companies like Samsung. Chemical, this broad fiscal uranium trust next year, and Dennis and mine's global pharma companies like those to make up. The, the, like the base of that pyramid. And then you can start building to get more toward more upside potential, perhaps with more risky explorers. But if those do not work out, you always have that base. That is what I keep telling people. And of course, everybody has a different investment strategy. Everybody has different risk tolerance, but I've noticed that this is this. If you construct your portfolio in this way, It usually works out and you can deal with better with volatility in that regard as well. But of course everything's very personal and everything. From what equities, you pick all the way to what exit strategy you implement, everything has a personal touch to it. So that's important to note. You mentioned a jurisdiction. One of the most interesting things and kind of funny to me is that earlier on Canada and, and sort of the Jewish of access, there was so great and everybody was so bullish. And then that sentiment has sort of flipped now where Africa is, is far more bullish, but, you know, earlier it was like very bearish. What do you make of that? What do you make of the very quick flip-flopping that we're seeing in terms of sentiment based on Jewish. I get it because what you are looking for right now, especially because this uranium bull market is likely going to come and go faster than what most people previously fought. I personally, at a timeline last year. For between two and four years, I think we're entering the market. And with the contract six cycle in the tour market now slowly but surely heating up, I think that his timeline has shifted to one or two years. So you want to have uranium projects? I will. First of all, I would say Is there a sexual diversification is good. You never want to be fully allocated to a single country because something can go wrong, no matter how great the jurisdiction may be on paper or in practice, because if we can always happen. But the one thing I will say is that what Africa has, especially in countries like Namibia, but also Nisha or global tonic and Goviex are located and maybe aware of several European companies located like. Elevates uranium, like detail like Bannerman and a bunch of others. What they have as, as burn advantage over countries like Australia, the U S and the Canada. Permits, which are so important, exploring, developing, and producing uranium because it's such a well political commodity, so to speak, you want those permits in place. And in Africa, the permanent process just goes fast and we've seen that time. And again, and I think that is one of the reasons why people are looking to Africa. As one of the better Uranian jurisdictions to pick their companies and especially Namibia, which is politically stable, which is very friendly to minors and which is also fast. And it's permitting process for most companies. It's definitely something to look out for. And yeah, I think that that jurisdictional diversification very, very much includes Africa. Sure. Let me touch on China really quickly. I think I actually posted a thread on Reddit, which you yourself saw and got a lot of community feedback on, you know, what's top of mind for some investors. And one of the common themes is. where do we stand on China? Because like I said earlier, the information asymmetry, especially from China, it's just so asymmetric. Do we know if the information is actually correct? And how would you best suggest that investors could get exposure to the Chinese. All the main thing about China is that they're off course the biggest growth story in this space. They are the demand driver for the next 5, 10, 50 years, especially after we've seen them coming out and discussing the possibility of adding 150 new reactors to that grid by 2045 and investing$440 billion in process. That is a major, major statements. And. Well, they make it that far will knows, but they have time. And again, show that they want that energy security. They want to make sure that they have enough uranium in place to have that energy security for us. Nuclear power plants. The beautiful thing about uranium is you can store years and years for supply. And that's what they're secure right now. We've already seen two. Chinese contracts for uranium being signed with Casella prom. And they are saying that more, that of course, that's subject to disclosure agreements. And we do not know the details of that, but they have mentioned that more Chinese utilities are in the market to secure more uranium. And I think that we will continue to see it up. And one thing that isn't the case that. That information is cemetery, because a lot of information is very clouded. You have to really dig to get some of the details and even then you will probably never get the full story. So we have to go with what we get. You can reach out to perhaps CGN to get more information. And that brings me to what you discuss. If you want to have exposure to the Chinese growth story and to China really. Really securing more uranium. I would say that you need to take a close look at CJ. And of course you have the political uncertainty to a certain extent you have that information is information or cemetery, but I think CGN is what can be, or it can be one of those stops here built in blocks for Euro preferable uranium pyramid. So that will be my way to get exposure to the. Perhaps also exposure in Africa, because if the, if the Chinese go to secure future uranium production, productive capacity, Africa will be one of the first places they will look besides the obvious subjects like gas Exxon or within their own borders or respect is some countries like that. So that is also one way to get exposure to China and really trying to secure those necessary pounds because those hundred 50 reactors alone will be consuming, not including from bloating, approximately 6 67 0.5 million pounds a year, which. An incredible amount. So shifting topics a little bit, I did want to touch on seasonality. You know, I think a good signal of whether seasonality is occurring is whether there's contracting happening in the space between the utilities. So far that has not been happening. Right. And so that would suggest that seasonality is really not occurring. What's your take on why contracting is not occurring? I would say that some contracting is occurring, but what is more important to see right now is that at least if not all marked and off-market. Conversations are being had for those contracts. We've seen RFPs, which stands for request for proposal. We seen those hit the market. We see utilities really testing the waters, and we've seen utilities noticing that, Hey uranium, with, to handle you already even have three handle may not be available anymore well is not really available anymore in most cases. So we're not looking at uranium beforehand. That's where the discussion shifted. And I think that will shift. Very quickly too. You're going to move a five handle and then you can go from there. Most conventional equilibrium price levels that are discussed are between 60,$65, something around that range. But. I think we will go higher than that. And I, we can get into that later. I think that will fit very much under a topic of things that may not be discussed enough. But going back to to what you mentioned about contracting. Daniel major CEO of Gulf JAKKS has gone out to mentioned that contracts are being signed and contracts are being signed, going out to 20 30, 20, 42, which is a very, very long time with ceilings for first two years,$55. And for the years after that for$78, and those are just early stage contracts, I think that once this cycle really starts heating up, you will see a real price discovery. And you will see those contracts being sites. So it all starts with off-market conversations. The negotiations will take place, they will speed up. And in the next one or two years, in my opinion, we will see that major contract cycle happening. And that is where you get most of the movement in the uranium market. Because of course we're all very focused on the spot price, especially now in the market, but the Terremark. Most like 70 to 80% of all activity happens. That is where to may focus. Sure, sure. You know I actually saw a really interesting theory posted on Twitter and they said that it could be that contracting is not happening because. Some of these bigger conferences that typically occur this time of year are not happening because of COVID. Do you think that could really be a reason why that that contracting is not happening with these conferences or getting. I think it could play a part. I think it's all speculation at this point, of course. So you can never have one sure-fire explanation for why something is or is not happening. But I would say that COVID has definitely not helped in really creating opportunities to meet, to discuss contracts, either on board meetings or either. On these big conferences. So yeah, I think, I think it might've played a part it's of course it's all speculation, but if we didn't have COVID, perhaps it might have sped up that that part of the cycle a bit, but, but we'll have to see. Sure, sure. I also wanted to get to Europe, so you're based out of Europe. I think you're based out of the Netherlands. Is that correct? I actually just recently learned about the EU taxonomy. I'm not super familiar with it. Could you describe what the EU taxonomy is and sort of how that plays into the larger narrative in Europe? For uranium? Well, without really trying to describe everything and boring your listeners to death, I'll just do a very basic explanation. The EU taxonomies, something that is discussed right now, and it will. From what I've concluded from my own ratios, et cetera, will play a major part. If nuclear is included in making nuclear more economically viable. So it's just a taxonomy that will make sure that nuclear efforts included can play on a level playing field with things like solar and wind, which are also included in this sustainable taxonomy. So, yeah, so it's will be, this is being discussed right now and it will be. I think a phone is due on the 22nd of December and I've heard some good noises being being shared that, that nuclear may be included in the taxonomy itself or may be included in a different bill. But yeah, again, we have to wait and see, but I think this taxonomy will not only help. Make nuclear you're more viable, which is definitely necessary because we are in the middle of an energy crisis and with countries so dependent on natural gas and coal, and with those being in such high price right now. Nuclear power as we've seen in France can offer the solution out of this energy. Well, maybe not out of this current energy crisis, but hopefully it makes sure that we do not have an energy crisis, the same severity in future. So that will definitely help. But what I also, the 200 fix that I also think will really help with. This is one, it will help public sentiment and your political sentiment towards nuclear power because people will see our nuclear is being included in this. Green sustainable European taxonomy. That has to mean that nuclear is a good way to create green based or power to meet zero carbon goals by 20 50, 20, 60. So that's one thing that's very key. And the other thing that I absolutely think is key is that if this is included, it will also mark uranium and nuclear S E S G and festival. We've already seen some ESG funds invest into the space, but once this has, once this really gets labeled as a green sword, or it's a green way to invest, it will open the door to a lot of capital. I think. Currently there are 17.1 around$17.1 trillion of capital of ESG cap. In the United States while it does not directly linked to Europe, I'm very aware of that. It does put into perspective the amount of capital that could come in, even if it's just some tiny, like half a percentage point of that capital going to nuclear and or uranium. So that will also make all the difference in a tiny market that. I think that all the broad equities that are publicly traded right now are trading at approximately 36 30$7 billion, which is absolutely driving that's around the same model gap as dovish point, which is ridiculous. It's funny. So, you know, you actually just mentioned the public sentiment in Europe, towards uranium. I want to hear more about that. How, you know, how do people you know, around you, whether the Netherlands or Europe more broadly feel about uranium, are they talking about it? Is it in the sort of the mainstream current. It's getting better. It's getting a little better. I've seen a lot. I've seen a few polls, both in the Netherlands in Belgium that really asked to ask the population of the country, or at least in part, because you can hardly ask an entire police to fill in an online poll, but you've seen that either. They are for. The keeping nuclear power is for the energy mix, because both Netherlands, as well as Belgium use nuclear power, the Netherlands only for small part, but we still have a nuclear power plant or they're willing, or they are open to the idea. Really expanding the nuclear power as a percentage of the grid structure. So yeah, no, I think we've definitely, I've personally seen the sentiment around nuclear power, really improving, and I think that's something we've seen all around Europe. I've even seen protests in brussel and Berlin in favor of nuclear power and only they're against. So that's one thing that's also very, very good to see. So, yeah, no, I think public sentiment is improving because people see the way that society is shifting and people are starting to slowly, but surely to become aware that nuclear power is and will be part of the solution. Great. Great. So, you know, I'm thinking now I can sort of switch over to some of these questions from Reddit. And so just for context for the listener, I ended up after my last episode of Justin posting on a subreddit called uranium squeeze. And getting some questions from the community. And I think some of these are really interesting. One question is what is the power of I always pronounce this incorrectly cause cause I prom in the world or any market. Okay. So the problem is the biggest player. They are responsible for 23% of global uranium production. And Kazakhstan itself has 12% of the entire global uranium reserve. I've been the only country that beats their uranium serve is Australia. And they have nowhere near the same focus on uranium mining as, as gas Exxon house. So it's safe to say that they are a huge, huge player and they will continue to be a huge, huge player. And for the rest of this decade, the one key focus that I that I think should be mentioned. I said, people are always worried because yes, Casa has this massive power. So why don't they just flood the market? Well, in recent years, ever since they publicly floated the part of their company, they've really been focused on. Quality of quantity. So they have been produced for the past few years, if we're producing 27 and 20% below there. So user agreements for maximum output and data really helped stabilize this market and really bring it from a supply from an office supply markets to a marketing deficit. And they have publicly said, Taiwan again, there have been. Pounding the proverbial table, even just a few weeks ago that no, they're not looking to, to fro the spine on the window note are not looking to expand the production and they will keep to their production costs for next year and 2023. What happens for 20, 24 and after who knows, but it's already great to see that they're committing to. K production 20% below those aforementioned subsoil use agreements. And it's really helped us market. But after that, when you look at, at the end of this decade, what we've seen as we've seen Casella prom also also spend less than they might've wanted to. I don't know what their targets were over the past decade on the development of new uranium projects. They also need. To get more capital in so they can use that on cap X spending on new projects or exploration development and bringing into production those new projects because after 20 28, 20 29, you see production from foam roll off a cliff. And they've publicly stated that after 2028, Around the end of this decade, we're going to need one Navy, two more, seven prompts. So yeah, they hold a lot of power in the uranium sector, but they too are looking far ahead to make sure that they can keep that massive uranium production going and they want to replace their sources. And they've mentioned that those new assets, those new productive capacity may not be as good as the ones that they started out with, because that makes sense. And yeah, that's definitely something to look out for. And I want to mention one thing, and it's said they, as the biggest Jurnee mine in the world, they see the way that the wind is blowing and they see that there that the amount of uranium. May not be able to meet the amount of demand because that keeps on growing with new reactors being saved and new reactors being constructed are poised to be constructed. And in one of the last presentation, they actually put a quote that I use quite often because it encapsulates everything we're talking about social wealth, so that there may not be enough guaranteed supply for everyone. And I think that's something that will ring very true in the next year. Sure. So another question posted here is how often do you Rainium ETFs change the mining companies held in their portfolio and based on what criteria, maybe we can talk about a specific ETF or whatever, whichever one you're familiar with. Well, we can talk about the two biggest one. You have three uranium NCS or now U S H U R a U F U R N M U R a. Well, let's touch upon the two biggest one. You are a URM, you are a Brighton. How, as a, I think they have asked some management of approximately$1.3 billion, so pretty significant, and also has a lot of effects on this uranium bull market. And what there they will. I think they will be. Rebalancing their index in January. Yeah. January for URA and March for around mid-March for your and M and what you, what a company needs for to be included in URA is a total free flow market capitalization of 50 million us dollars. And that is not on the day that they select which companies get into the. Or at least for the million, for companies that are already part of the index for URM, that is a little bit less. That is a freeform market capitalization of$40 million at a minimum market cap for at 60 index holdings of 25 million. So. I've seen a lot of people discussing I've been discussing it myself as well when discussing companies that are not in those ETFs yet, but to now because of the recent run-up and if they can hold that market capitalization qualify to be included in those ETS. And if they are included, that will cause a lot of indiscriminate buying off the underlying sheriffs, that company to make sure if they are included into the ETFs. So, yeah, that's definitely something to look forward to. I do not plan to trade around this. I do not recommend trading around this because it can get very volatile and there was never like a perfect formula for this. But if you have a really good company that now fits the criteria, it's not part of the ETS yet. It can really put extra fuel on the proverbial fire. So yeah, those Those are definitely things to look out for. And I think that the ETFs are going to play a major, major role in in taking capital and buying those underlying equity. Got it. I almost feel like I need to say that none of this is investment advice, but absolutely this is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Okay. So moving on how do you see the interest rate yields spiking, and how has that, how do you think that's gonna affect a uranium stock? So the uranium. Yeah, that's definitely, that's, that's a pretty hard topic to cover because that's very like broad macro oriented orientated. I think that I'm personally a, for that with yields can't really spike that much before the debt becomes literally unpayable. But even if you'll spike in the short term, I think that. It will cause a sell off in the markets and that this federal step in once more to put like a floor in the markets to make sure that it stays, like it says up and that the mantra of stocks only go up, it rings through, which is it's something that can hold through forever, but they've certainly been trying to do a good job to make sure it holds that way for the past, the past year and a half. But what I think is that in that environment, You are really looking at if the broad markets also crashes or corrects that uranium equities, because they're so small, they're so illiquid, they get dumped right along with it. And we've seen it in the past few weeks. We have seen energy performing relatively weakly, and we've seen uranium, especially without spot buying. I really like trade together with energy and they have, they've sold off massively between 30 and 50% or sometimes more. And that is what happens to the smaller liquid market. And that's where you also get lots and lots of volatility. So I think that looking at. Market headwinds. And I figured that those broad sort of macro headwinds, and I think those are clear. And I think that in the next month, and in January, we are looking at risk or assumption of that, of course, projectory in uranium, equities, especially as energy also picks up again to get with oil, for example. So. Yeah, no, I think that problem markets headwinds and macro news are definitely something to watch and they should not be dispensed because they have a big influence on this market, as well as all the uranium and nuclear specific news that we're seeing. Got it. Got it. I asked this sort of question to Justin, but I also want to ask you this. Cause I feel like you have a different point of view coming from Europe and also just being younger obviously the retail traders and Robin hood and retail traders on Weebo and some of these other applications have some sort of impact. How significant of an impact do you think they have right now? And as maybe the culture starts sort of seeping into uranium and uranium sort of seeping into the culture how much impact do you think they'll have? I think they will have a pretty big impact because I think that if you're already in being a cyclical industry, I think that this cyclical industry. There this bull market will go the way of previous bull marks. And we've seen with a big blow of top top. And after that big drop, because what happens is price move on justifies the narrative is as simple as that combined that mantra with. The fact that you want nature doesn't change and you have a recipe that especially now with so much easy money floating around so many people, so many people are investing. And so many people have easy access from the click of a button. They can buy a thousand shares in any given uranium company, for example, to just and that is way easier than it was in previous bull markets. So I think they will have a big influence. And I think that. Once things start rolling really, really hard. And once you really starts being the talk of the town, just like Bitcoin was in 27, Africa was 2017 and 2018 when they when it first stopped out or cannabis stocks or uranium in the last bull market. Yeah, those are the moments that a lot of retail capital will come in and that's what causes these blow up top. So yeah, I think there will have a massive impact. And sadly, I think cyclicality will not take any personal response cycle turns. So when people are thinking of exit strategies, I would highlight. Recommend scaling out in tranches, do not try to time. It's up to not try to hold on to everything until you see some ridiculous number. You need to have a personalized exercise, energy that really folks on a few, maybe it's four, maybe it's 10. Doesn't really matter. It needs to fit you as an investor, but don't do it all at once because deadly, she prone to either leaving a lot of money on the table or. Even worse, Alicia pro riding this cycle back down because the other side of the short will be just as steep as the way. Sure. That's great advice. That's great advice. Yeah I think that's, one of the more important things that I also want to think about is and also focus on is, you know, what's the downside, like when are we going to see the downside? How are we going to prepare for it is going to be stop-loss orders. Maybe we head we're hedging a little bit. I think that's something that will also enter the conversation further down the line. So to wrap up this interview here with a few questions, so I have one sort of medic question for my own personal curiosity. What is, I think, a very successful newsletter and P paid newsletter. So I'm curious to know, you know, what is the most important lesson you've learned in writing this newsletter? That's a great question. I think the one thing that I've learned is that you really need to make sure that things are. Easily understandable. And that may sound very easy to say, but it's very hard to put it put into action because this market can be so opaque. And I have a lot of when I read something or when I do research, there is a lot of thoughts that go through my head that I want to put on paper, but I know that most people that. That just wants to get to the point. Most people just want to get to the point now. All right. How does this affect my investment? What do we do with it? Is there any action I should take? And I think the one thing I've learned is to really try to put very complex information into a very easy to understand and easy to digest package. And yeah. And what I've also learned is that it's great to have a group of like-minded individuals to share this bull market with, because with the triune codex, I have a discord server that NA that has a few hundred people that have now joined. And it's, it's amazing to see. I'm very, very grateful for it. I just want to say that first and foremost, what I've seen is it's great because. I will give you one example. I personally do not use any options. It's just, it's just my way of investing and I completely respected some people. Definitely do you use option because they can have great potential. If people ask questions like that in this court server, we have a bunch of people that use ops. They have advice and they have different few points, and it's also great to get to really get a feel for things like public sentiment. People are talking like somebody just makes, like, I've been talking to a few friends of mine. They sell fig FSA into uranium is ridiculous guys. We're still early, things like that. So it's great to have that community in place. And yeah, no, again, I'm very grateful. I've been doing this full-time for a little over a month now. Honestly, couldn't be happier. Keep working and keep improving the contents. Great, great. You know, I, I read my own newsletter and my thing has been like, you know, how do I work? Am I providing value? Am I even providing value for my readers? So that's always where my question in the back of my head. So this is, this is great. Communicating with them, keep communicating. Sure. It's fair. So I like to end these interviews by asking this question, which is, what's a topic in this field that you feel isn't discussed enough or is discussed incorrectly or hasn't gotten enough. I think the one thing that I've already touched upon in the bed early in this interview, I think the one thing that really need to realize is that yes, there was all of Sholem production and yes, some companies have that show or hold a show in production. It could bring it back online, a company like Palo, then we'll have Langer Heinrich company like boss we'll have the honeymoon projects, a company like Lotus as well. They have production capacity that That can provide those pounds of uranium going forward. But with inflation now, running rampant and with supply bottlenecks also in place the cost to bring the mind back online is significantly higher. The timelines bring this blow because we're, we've only been talking about material and inflation, but also just human capital. Just literally finding the right people for the deal. Then once you've come to a uranium, mine to bring it back online, I think that. Timelines will be longer than expected to bring these, to bring this shedding capacity online. I think costs will be higher than was first anticipated. And I think that will. Be part of the reason why we will probably get a delayed supply response as well as go to a higher equilibrium price level. And of course we, of course, in my opinion, we will go up and beyond that equilibrium price level. But I think equally are being missed now close to 75 or$80 before we see that balance because of those higher costs because of those supply bottlenecks. So yeah, I think that's something that really needs to be. So sh sure. You're saying that maybe the supply bottlenecks have not been priced in as of yet the timeline. I do not think they've been pricing yet. No, I think that is something that that we need to see how it develops. Maybe the supply bottlenecks are clear, maybe they're not, but I think that 20, 22 will be a year that gives a lot of clarity where this bull markets could go and also gets a lot of clarity of what we perhaps can expect in terms of severity. Sure. Okay. One other contrarian question for you. What do you think is the strongest to bear case against uranium or strong burgers against uranium? But the most obvious one is of course, a normal nuclear disaster with modern power plants being so, so safe with so many safety, stringent safety procedures implemented, and which is very necessary, which is great. Apart from that, I think that China potentially put it from cold wet blankets onto the uranium bull market. Either with them coming out to say that they might don't need those nuclear build-out plans or just scaling those plans back entirely or releasing some of that strategic reserve to try and quell the price a bit. I think that is very unlikely. And I think that is a long ways out, but it's something that, that has to be kept the two account. I also think that. There are other ways that either governments or utilities could, could use to try to cap the price of it. I don't think they will. They will do anything that could stop the price, going to the equilibrium price level that I think. I discuss, but it will perhaps cap the peak price and we will see. So, and in the final bear case, I think that is also a bit longer term, but you can never fully discount it for the next one or two years. It's some disruptive technology really. Entering this phase and really making extracting uranium easier. We've seen seawater extraction being discussed as one of those things, but see what our extraction is not only not economically viable at around$200 per pound of uranium, it's also not scalable on a full on industrial level right now because it's still very much in the early stage of adaptation. So, yeah, even though we have 40 trillion, tons of uranium on earth and a million of that is recoverable only a very small percentage of that without those new technologies is recoverable for low triple digits, uranium. So yeah, I think that there are definitely barricades and you should never discount. Those will be the first one to tell you that. And definitely there'll be the last one to tell you that. But I think that the should really take us into account, but right now the bull case for uranium has, in my honest opinion, never looks stronger and it only is only getting stronger in the months ahead. And I think I think that will be the prevailing trends for this. Mark. Thank you so much for joining us on the age of information. This has been wonderful. I learned a lot. I hope the listeners got some more context for the really experienced ones. And then if you're new to the space, you also learn something. So thank you for joining us again. Thank you very much for having it's an absolute pleasure.