Foreign Fiascos

In this episode of Nitecap True Crime, we take a trip around the globe to uncover crimes in other countries!

Suzi sails us down under to New Zealand to tell us about a woman who runs a shady "Baby Farm" and may or may not hide babies in hat boxes.

Brittany jumps aboard the Austrian Express and spins a tale about a not so sweet ice cream shop owner and her horrific attempts at disposing of her lovers

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:03

911, what is your emergency? I just found a body. I don't know what to do. Government officials.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

You are listening to Nightcap, a true crime podcast. If the mystery of murder intrigues you, or if you find crime quite a curiosity. Welcome home.

SPEAKER_08 0:27

Pour yourself a drink, sit back, and buckle up.

SPEAKER_07 0:30

It's gonna get dark.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Be warned, this podcast does contain explicit content and graphic descriptions of real life accounts and cases. Listener discretion is definitely advised.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

I'm back, bitches. Did you miss me? If you didn't, it's probably because you don't know who I am. And if you don't, my name's fucking Susie. I'm Gavin.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

And I'm Brittany. That was in the script.

SPEAKER_06 1:03

Um Brittany. Why?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

You should not read it. You said the shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Pack your bags and grab your passports. Tonight's episode is foreign fiascos. We're going to take you around the globe and investigate some foreign crimes. But first, what are you drinking, Susie?

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Um, besides the uh my good friend Admiral Nelson that Gavin always has nearby. I'm drinking Blue Moon. Boring. It's Belgian. It's Belgian white, though. It's brewed in Colorado, but it's Belgian white. It's foreign, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

That's what Hardy was drinking uh last week. Yeah. What are you drinking, Gabby?

SPEAKER_07 1:48

Whale? Why do I always say it like that?

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Yeah, damn it. Just just in less or uh read 52. It's about a whale. So fuck. Wait, yes, that is very true.

SPEAKER_07 2:03

52. The loneliest whale. The loneliest whale. But I am drinking a well fun story. So we Susie and I always stopped by the little gas station on the corner from the studio to get beer and whatnot before we record. And I saw this seltzer called Seek Out Real Hard Seltzer. So I bought, we got it, and took it back to the studio, and I cracked the first one, which was bomb as fuck. Cracked the second one, which was bomb as fuck. And now I'm on to my third flavor, which is also bomb as fuck. And then as I'm look sitting here look reading the label, it's made by guess who? You're never gonna guess. You guys are never gonna guess. I already know who it is. I'm gonna give you one little guess. Two towns, cider house. Oh like, are you hitting TC in the building?

SPEAKER_05 3:03

No wonder this basic ass bitch loves it so much. He's been making funny noises every time he cracks a can. I'm like, Gavin, are you okay?

SPEAKER_04 3:10

He's like, oh my god. I'm like, what, Gavin? What are you saying? So good. Oh, so good.

SPEAKER_07 3:17

For your information, it is a 5% alcohol volume. It is made from real fruit, not sugar. And we had a debate about that earlier.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

It has two grams of included sugars from the fruit, not added sugar.

SPEAKER_07 3:31

That's not quite the verbiage, but close enough. So the ingredients water, apple wine, pineapple juice, passion fruit juice, natural passion fruit extract.

SPEAKER_06 3:43

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_07 3:45

That sounds really sexual. And in case y'all didn't know from like three or four or five or episodes ago, it is made in Corvallis, Oregon. Just down the street from Old Brittany.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

That's me.

SPEAKER_07 4:01

Now that I have read almost everything that is on this can, fucking gabby. Brittany, what kind of non-alcoholic bubbly are you having over there?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

The yummiest kind. Um, so brewdog, which is a really good brewery, not just a non-alcoholic brewery. They have regular beers that I hear are very scrumptious. They had a limited batch release of faux fox sharp raspberry. And oh, that very sound good. Yeah, so it is a raspberry. It says non-alcoholic flavored, they call them their near beers. The non-alcoholic ones.

SPEAKER_07 4:46

Describe the flavor for me. Is it like is it tart?

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Yes. Can you smell it? Tell me how it smells.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Oh my god, it's good. Comes with weird noises. Damn, it's good. I it's yeah, it's it's tart and it's fruity, but not too fruity. And I'm so glad I ordered four packs of it. It is delicious. I'm jealous.

SPEAKER_07 5:17

Columb, Columbus, Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. We have a lot of listeners in Columbus, Ohio. Oh, hello, friends. So this is really delicious. Like, oh, really, a huge percentage of our listeners are based out of Columbus, Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

That's really random. Hello, guys. Yeah. Columbus, Ohio.

SPEAKER_07 5:37

Like, literally, they are next to our Seattle listeners, which is our top listeners. So we've got Seattle, Columbus, Ohio. It comes in next. I'm surprised Spokane is Spokane Lake. Lake Stevens, Washington is next, and then Spokane, Washington. So weird. And then get this. This is even more strange. Anchorage, Alaska.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Oh, what's up, Alaska?

SPEAKER_07 5:55

And then Aloha, Oregon.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Oh, hell yeah. I didn't even know that was a place, but aloha. Aloha, Oregon.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, it's like near Beaverton. It's pretty much the same as Beaverton. Let's get off this boat, shall we? Gavin, what kind of facts did you find for foreign fiascos?

SPEAKER_09 6:14

I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_07 6:19

Oh, lordy. For most people, this may be incredibly boring, but holy moly, did I have a heyday. Like literally, this was the most fun I have had doing research for this podcast thus far.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

What, 13 pages? Yes. 13 pages. 13 pages.

SPEAKER_07 6:39

Don't worry, everybody. It's double space. So it's only like six and a half. Because I'm easily distracted. Anyhow, are you guys ready? Born ready. I don't know if you're ready. Born ready. Alright. Let's do it. Crime is a crime no matter where you go. People have been doing it since the dawn of time. Crime in Milwaukee, there's crime in Nagasaki. There's murder in Serbia, also suburbia. You could get mugged in Brazil and also on Capitol Hill. If you're traveling from Alaska to Nebraska to Tehran or even Taiwan, you're gonna find some crime, and that's all I have for my true crime rhyme. Dr. Seuss.

SPEAKER_06 7:23

You are fucking welcome. I will not eat ma'am. You cannot make me say my aim. So I could not.

SPEAKER_07 7:34

Foreign crime is actually quite difficult to narrow down specific statistics for a plethora of reasons. Other countries use different criminal justice systems. The rate of crime and reporting systems are different than here in the States. And in third world countries, crimes such as assault, rape, or even homicide are are most often not even reported at all. Here are some stats from a 2021 crime index from NumBio.com. Don't know if I said that correctly, but A, I stated my source. So we're going, like, I thought I was going a little too extreme, and then I was like, nah, I should narrow it down. Then I was like, no, this is too much fun. I just have to keep going. So the tenth most crime-worthy country in the world is Brazil. In in 2018, it was reported that Brazil had at least 57,956 homicides. Wait, in one year? In 2018. Holy shit. In comparison to the United States. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Nice.

SPEAKER_07 8:40

Nice. In 2018, the United States had 16,214. In 2018, Natal, Brazil, topped the charts with a murder rate of nearly 75 per 100,000 inhabitants. That's right, folks. 75 people out of 100,000 on average fell victim to homicide. Jesus. In general, Brazil is relatively safe for visitors and tourists. Most of the crimes involving tourists are nonviolent crimes such as pickpocketing or muggings. I was gonna say robbing. Syria comes in in ninth place. The level of crime is high and increasing. Property crime is prelivant. Murder, assault, and rape are also quite common. However, the real crime here is Syria's crimes against humanity. Syria's government has been documented conducting chemical attacks on its own citizens. Sketchy as fuck.

SPEAKER_09 9:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_07 9:41

Guyana in South America sits at number eight. In 2019, it was reported that Guyana had roughly 114 murders, 498 armed robberies, 159 cases of larceny, 229 reported cases of rape, and 593 cases of break-in-eters. Keep in mind, Guyana is a relatively small country on South America's North Atlantic coast and is home to only 782,000 people. The murder rate, as reported from the from 2013, is around 20.4 per 100,000 people. The fourth highest murder rate in South America. However, word on the street is that the crime rate is on a steady decline.

SPEAKER_08 10:24

Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_07 10:24

Yeah. El Salvador is hanging out at number seven on the list. Between January and July of 2020, El Salvador logged 697 murders. That's about three a day, y'all. Jesus. However, that rate is a huge drop from the 1,630 from the previous year, a year that saw El Salvador reach one of its lowest murder rates in recent history. Violent crime is pretty hot in El Salvador, as it is named one of the world's most dangerous countries. In 2015, it held the title of murder capital of the world, with a homicide rate of 103 per 100,000 people. The high rates of crime in El Salvador can be attributed to high levels of social inequality, civil wars and armed conflict, low rates of economic growth, high unemployment rates, rapid growth of large cities and metropolitan areas, absence of basic urban infrastructure, basic social services, community organizations in the poorest neighborhoods, growing presence and strengthening of organized crime, a culture of violence reinforced by organized crime, as well as the media, the police, and private security services. Shitty police and shitty criminal justice system. Mm-hmm. Sound familiar. And to top it off, a very poor public education.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Damn.

SPEAKER_07 11:50

Mm-hmm. At number six, we have Trinidad and Tobago. I had to let this shit up on a map because I've heard of Trinidad, but I've never heard of Trinidad. I don't know where it where it lives. Trinidad and Tobago are two islands located in the Lower Caribbean. In 2020, there were 393 reported homicides, down 27% from 2019. Much of the crime on these islands is attributed to drugs and gang-related crime. The island countries are in the process of amping up their police forces as well as their security efforts, such as CCTV cameras and even hiring overseas experts to help build a better law enforcement infrastructure. Honduras is sitting pretty at number five. In 2012, Honduras experienced the highest murder rate in the history of the country, also the highest murder rate in a non-war country. 7,172 homicides were recorded in 2012. On average, that's 20 homicides per day. 83.4% of these homicides were committed with firearms. Between 2012 and 2015, the murder rate decreased by 30%, says the Honduras government. Gang presence in Honduras is very common where territory is controlled by members of rival gangs. People who live in these areas who do not pay their war taxes to the gangs for protection are threatened and often killed simply for their disobedience. The United States Agency for International Development and the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs has joined efforts to reduce the crime rate in Honduras. Which is like, I mean, that's cool and all, but why do we gotta keep sticking our fingers in buttholes that aren't ours? But anyhow, getting up there at number four, we have Afghanistan. Now there's a lot to unpack here. So I'm just gonna give you like the Cliff Notes version. Crime in Afghanistan comes in a colorful palette that includes corruption, contract killings, assassinations, bombies, kidnappings, drug trafficking, money laundering, black marketeering, as well as, you know, ordinary stuff like theft and assault. Jesus Christ. A huge contributor to Afghanistan's crime is attributed to opium cultivation and drug trafficking. Afghanistan is one of the world's largest producers of opium. In 2001, Afghanistan was the source of 87% of the world's illicit opium. 80 to 90% of the heroin consumed in Europe comes from opium produced in Afghanistan. And I was today years old when I learned that um heroin is made from opium.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Me too. What? Good, I'm glad we're all on the same page. I was not. You guys know that that comes from like the poppy, right?

SPEAKER_07 14:36

Yeah. Yeah, that's yeah, but I didn't know that's how they made heroin or where it comes from. Really? Yep. Oh. Apparently I live under a rock. Since the downfall of the Taliban in Afghanistan, the crime rate has significantly increased.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Oh shit. What?

SPEAKER_07 14:52

Mm-hmm. I know, I was confused by that too. Fun fact former President Dumpster Fire was caught telling the American people that Afghanistan was safer and more tranquil than Chicago.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

Does he know what Chicago? Sorry, I'm not gonna say anything about Chicago. Been there, beautiful city, and this I don't This was quickly fact-checked and turned out to be major fake news.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Oh wonder what?

SPEAKER_07 15:17

What major, major, bigly, bigly fake news. More people died by violence in Afghanistan in one month than died from violence in Chicago in one year.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_07 15:30

Facts 3,403 civilians were killed and 6,989 injured by violence in 2019, and the majority of civilian casualties inflicted by anti-government forces.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 15:44

In Afghanistan. 2019 was the sixth year in a row that the number of civilian casualties exceeded 10,000.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 15:54

Fuck. Hanging tight at number three, we have South Africa. This one's a deucey, y'all. 21,325 cases of homicide were reported in 2019-2020. That's 58 people murdered every single fucking day at a rate of 35.8 people per 100,000. Holy shit. Goddamn. That's a lot of fucking people. 53,295 reported cases of sexual offenses. And 332,214 cases of assault. And let me remind you, that is only what was reported. I hate when you put it like that. And robbery is just mind-boggling. I didn't even I'm like, I I don't even want to add up these numbers because they're it's just it's insane. Runner up, the second highest crime rate in the world, we have Pappo New Guinea. Crimes of violence have been particularly attributed to the country's rapid social, political, and economic changes. Poverty in the country runs rampant in rural areas and has moved into urban areas, which has created a cultural and social rift. Organized crime and corruption are also big on the list of crime concerning Papua New Guinea, as well as illegal drug trade and human trafficking. Due to its geographical location, Papua New Guinea is a hotbed for human trafficking. The country acts as an international source and terminal for trafficking.

SPEAKER_08 17:31

Ah, it's fucking sad.

SPEAKER_07 17:33

I know, it's disgusting. Approximately 30% of sex trafficking victims in Papua New Guinea are under the age of 18. No. Mm-hmm. I hate it. Gang activity is very widespread throughout the country and dominates most areas. The United States Department of State Travel Advisory assesses PNG as a level two, indicating travelers should exercise increased caution when traveling to Papua New Guinea. And number one on the list, are you ready? Bring it on. That was that was there was no excitement there, but okay, yes. Venezuela. Venezuela has one of the highest numbers of violent deaths in the world. Last year, 2020, Venezuela capped in with an estimated 16,506 homicides. That's roughly 46 people a day. You're joking. Nope. By their own government. Holy shit. How cute. Robberies are commonplace as most Venezuelans in the first part of 2019 did not have access to cash. So the number of street crimes actually fell, which caused criminals to begin breaking into homes to steal items such as jewelry, electronics, appliances, as well as foreign currency. Heavily armed criminals have used grenades and assault rifles to commit crimes at banks, shopping malls, transportation stations, and universities.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Wow, that's really casual. That's super casual.

SPEAKER_07 19:07

I love that. Ransom kidnappings saw an incline in the second part of 2019, as well as corruption and bribery in the government. Organized crime is well documented throughout Venezuela, and we should just never go there. Yeah. And just for fun, the safest country in the world is Iceland. Yeah, they would. Yeah. Hell yeah, Iceland. 12th year in a row, Iceland has been named the safest country in the world, and for good reason. I'm down. The Nordic nation has a relatively small population, around 34,000 people, and upholds a high standard of living and strong social attitudes against crime.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

Can we go there? Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 19:46

Iceland does not have a military. Did you know that? They abolished it? Good for them. Their police don't even carry firearms.

SPEAKER_05 19:54

Well, they just have those sticks.

SPEAKER_07 19:55

They only have batons and pepper spray. Fuck yeah, dude. Iceland is well known for their stances on equality and religious freedoms as well as equal pay for all. If only the rest of the fucking world could take a goddamn note. Iceland, you're fucking Don't you know? Don't you know that sounds like a fucking great place to go? Oh gee, by gosh, golly, I would just let's go see some ice, alright?

SPEAKER_04 20:19

I heard it's really green there, actually. Greenland is covered in ice, Iceland is covered in green. It's really quite what is the word I'm looking for? Kind of disappointing. So, Susie. Oh boy. Tell us about your foreign fiasco. Okay, so I literally did like a murder matchup type of scenario. I was like, I'm gonna pick a country, I'm gonna Google serial killers. You know, so my random brain thought of New Zealand. I was like, I'm gonna look up New Zealand serial killers. Look that shit up, guess how many there was? Two.

SPEAKER_08 20:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

There was two.

SPEAKER_07 20:55

Just two.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Just two serial killers in the New Zealand history, according to Wikipedia. Just saying. So if I got that wrong, it's Wikipedia's fault, not mine. I'm sorry, I'm just an American. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 21:05

So I picked one. Just an American. I don't know. Wow. Typical, typical American.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I think there's a lot, actually. I think New Zealand is like Australia, where they have like a lot of pretty fucked crimes. Look it up. Also, I was gonna do one from Australia. I was gonna do one from New Zealand. The one I was gonna do originally was from New Zealand. Oh, really? I decided to save it because I'm gonna do it on a different episode.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

I looked it up, and there was one man and there was one woman, and I picked the woman because her name was Minnie Dean.

SPEAKER_05 21:37

I was like, that's a good one. It's adorable. Minnie Dean? Minnie Dean.

SPEAKER_08 21:41

I like it.

SPEAKER_05 21:42

Well, her name's Willamina. Willamina Dean. Willamina Dean. Or she's also known as the Southland Witch.

SPEAKER_07 21:49

Oh, no wonder you picked it.

unknown 21:52

Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

Here we go. So we're gonna jump on in. Uh Minnie Dean was born in Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1847, she married a man named Charles Dean and they had two daughters. In 1868, she immigrated to Southland, New Zealand. And in 1886, she moved to a 22-acre estate with her husband, known as the Larches at East Winton. Ballin on that's not fancy. I don't know what is. Fuck yeah. 22 acres. It's got a name. The Larches? Cool.

SPEAKER_07 22:25

The Larches.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

Down. Okay, so Minnie Dean then set up a baby farming business. The children she took into her care were mostly illegitimate children brought from the mothers or grandmothers with no more questions asked. So baby farming, for those who don't know, is the historical practice of accepting custody of an infant or child in exchange for payment in the late Victorian era. Some farmers accepted lump sum payments while others cared for the children and received periodic payments over time. So essentially like a foster home, but they got paid. They were like, My daughter wasn't married and she hoed around. She had a baby. Take it. Here's some money. And they fostered them out.

SPEAKER_07 23:07

I'm an entrepreneur. But nah.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Yeah. And the name the term baby farming just sounds really disgusting, too. Like I imagine.

SPEAKER_07 23:17

Awful.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

I'm like, babies shouldn't be farmed. I don't know. So Willamina Dean first gathered the authorities' attention in October 1889 after a six-month-old baby died three days after having fallen ill and being in her care. The death certificate showed the death was caused naturally due to convulsions. I'm assuming from having too high of a fever. Because we're in the 1800s here, you guys, so there was no like, oh, you know, take some phylenol, you know.

SPEAKER_07 23:44

Fair. It's here, take a concoction of morphine cocaine.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Got demons in your blood. Here's some coke. So two years later in 1891, another baby died in Dean's care. This time the baby was only six weeks old. Again, it was found that the cause of death was natural causes. Infant mortality was quite common and an issue in New Zealand at this time, with many babies and children dying from various diseases and ailments. Although the babies that died in her care were ruled natural causes, the public became weary of Dean, causing her to become more secretive with her dealings as well as advertising using fake names. So everybody was thinking that because babies were dying, I mean, why would you want to give your I mean, sell your baby to her because babies were dying? So she started advertising under secret names. So this is where it gets kind of sticky. In May 1895, a guard at the train station reported seeing a woman board a train with a young baby and then leave the same train without the baby. This happened within range of East Winton. Police began investigating this occurrence, and they were led to a Mrs. Hornsby who had lived in Doon Den at Millburn. I don't know where any of these places are. I just included it because I figured that someone who was I thought I had to include it, but I'm like, literally, I'm like, this is losing me here because I have no idea. But okay, so Mrs. Hornsby had admitted to have given her one-month-old granddaughter to Minnie Dean for the payment of four pounds. And the police brought Miss Hornsby to the larches to identify the young baby. Okay, so upon arrival, the baby's clothes were identified by the grandmother, but Dean herself could not produce the baby to show the authorities. The authorities had also conducted a search along the railway line, but there was no sign of the baby. Just in case, you know, maybe she like hucked her out the window or something. So they they they were trying to cover the bases. They even checked that, but no sign of the baby. So at this point, Wilhelmina Dean and her husband were arrested for the murder of the Hornsby baby, and their estate was searched. In the home's garden, police dug up three little bodies ranging from infant to three years old. Two of the bodies were identified as baby Eva Hornsby and baby Dorothy Edith Carter, who was also surrounded by her grandmother to Dean. And the third body was that of a three-year-old boy who was never identified.

SPEAKER_09 26:22

Yeah, sad.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

Yeah, literally, I have a I have a three-year-old. So like I heard that, I was just, um, you know, it hurts. Poor little sweet things, they don't deserve the shit. So upon a further investigation, charges against Charles Dean were dropped because they realized that he didn't have any this was her business, not his. But the charges against Minnie stood. Now I'm gonna get into the police theory on what had happened because nobody really knows what happened to the baby or babies. So the police theory was that Dean picked up and took the Carter baby, which was one of the two young baby girls, took the Carter baby on the train from Winton to Lumsden, and during the trip to Lumsden, Minnie killed the infant and put her body into a hat box she was carrying with her. She then continued traveling, boarding the Wymia Plains train to Gore, and then boarded the Dunedin Express. At Millburn, close to where Mrs. Hornsby resided, the two ladies met up and Minnie left the hat box in a waiting room to do so. The two traveled on another train to Clarendon, where they made the exchange of baby Ava. They went their separate ways here, Dean now having Ava Hornsby in her possession, and Mrs. Hornsby headed back on a train to her home in Doon. It is before Minnie boards the train herself back to Milburn that she smothered Baby Ava and wrapped her body into a parcel. Arriving back in Milburn, Dean picks up the hat box containing Dorothy's body and now travels home with two dead baby bodies hidden in her luggage that she later buried and disposed of in her own garden. So this is only police theory, I have to remind you, because they don't really know. That's the theory, what she did. And you you think of like why she might have done those things, but when you think about it, like if you were just doing this for money and you were so desensitized to it, and she would have up to like 10 kids in her care, 10 babies in her care at a time, like that's a lot of babies.

SPEAKER_07 28:26

So she's just taking in babies, so she's getting a lump sum killing them and getting paid for mate.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Because you're getting a lump sum upon pickup, like if you're not paying over time to make sure the babies are getting cared for, you get a lump at the time of receiving the baby, and then why keep the baby? Because you already got the money. Why would I waste my food and my time and my money if I already got paid? Crazy shit. Right. And this is all theory. I remind you. So Willamina Dean went to trial with a substantial amount of evidence and witness statements putting her into a corner, including the obvious children's bodies and causes of death, the baby's clothes identified as Ava Hornsby's, the train guard witnessing her have a baby and lose it in real time, as well as a friend who lived with the Deans for 14 years, identified Minnie's handwriting as the signature M. Gray. See the fake names before in the Bluff Poison Register, which was believed to be how she was acquiring laudenum, which was one of the baby's causes of death. And laudenum is a child sedative. So it was an overdose of laudanum that killed one of the babies.

SPEAKER_07 29:38

And it's crazy back then.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

Yeah, right. And so she was on that poison, what do they call it? A poison register under a false name that she was obviously using for multiple reasons at the time. So the public became weirdly fascinated. And I found that I found this super weird. Okay. So the public became really fascinated in the case against Minnie Dean. And during her trial, there were actually people selling hat boxes containing baby dolls outside of the courthouse that she was beating. What?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

There's pictures of these hat boxes and the baby dolls. I've always been fascinated by murder.

unknown 30:15

That's nothing.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

I mean, does that sound like it's a fucking merch shop outside, like a minute, and her hat box containing no, it was super fucking weird. And it goes further than this. And I'm sure if there's any like have mercy, New Zealanders. I don't know if that's I think that's what they're called. New Zealanders. Yes. That sounds right. I don't know. Excuse me. But they this is like a big famous thing for them. Which we'll get into that. During her trial, Dean's lawyer argued that all of the deaths were accidental, and that the bodies had only been disposed of in that fashion to protect Dean from the scrutiny she had faced from the public before, after the first two baby deaths that were in her possession. That's what her lawyer argued. They died of natural causes, and she just wanted to try to avoid the shit talk from the public.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

That's my bullshit.

unknown 31:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

But I don't know, it's up for speculation. So this, however, did not stand in court, and Wilhelmina Dean was found guilty of murder and infantside, which I didn't know infantside was a thing. It is, but it is a thing. And she was sentenced to death. On August 12th, 1895, she was hanged by the official executioner Tom Long in Invercargill. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Sounds right. Um, her final words were no, I have nothing to say except that I am innocent. And not only that, so she was put to death, but Wilhelmina Dean was the first and only woman to receive the death penalty in New Zealand in the 1800s. It's crazy, right?

SPEAKER_07 31:59

Damn. Well, I mean, you go around killing babies. Yeah, it's probably I can totally see where people might think that she's a witch.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

Yeah, so that comes into like the focus later about it. Like she kind of grew to be like a like the boogeyman in New Zealand. Like you better act right, or Minnie Dean's gonna come and fucking stick you in a hat box and take you on LE. So then I actually using that. I am going to write that down. So I actually I Googled it and I found that there was a song made about Minnie Dean. And I was like, oh, this is super interesting. And so I actually asked Gavin, I was like, can we play this song? Because it's really fucking eerie. We can't play it due to uh copyright infringement or lati da. But there's nothing telling me that I can't read you guys the lyrics, so I'm just gonna read it. I'm not gonna sing it because you guys wouldn't like that, but I'm gonna read the lyrics. So these are the it's called The Ballad of Minnie Dean, and it was actually written in by uh or performed by Helen Henderson in 1999. So it says, Minnie Dean, Minnie Dean, she's gonna get ya and take you away on the option train. Oh, you better be good or Minnie Dean's gonna get ya and you'll never ever be heard of again. Dressed in black and she carried a hat in a hat box, when early to the station she came, but on her way back she'd always wear the hat in Vercargill to Winton on the five o'clock train. She was so sweet and gracious to the girls and the ladies, a home for their babies, she said she'd provide. It was all done in private and money was provided as she wrapped up their little ones and took them away. Here lie the children nobody wanted. Minnie Dean died for her sins and the people they cried. They cried for themselves and they cried for the children. They cried for Minnie and for closing their eyes. She dressed in black, and she carried a hat and a hat box. When early to the courthouse she came. And then it was the chorus. And then the last line is No, you'll never be heard of again.

SPEAKER_07 34:16

Damn. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

That's my case.

SPEAKER_07 34:20

Damn, Susie, that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Yeah, pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_07 34:23

Shorty but a goodie.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 34:24

I liked it.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

And I'm sure she got the Southland witch because she killed babies. I mean, I think that just came with it.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, that makes sense. Oh, Gavin. With modern online dating and the opening messages I get from men, such as love BBW, oh suck my so hot. I fear I'll be alone forever.

SPEAKER_07 34:46

Alone forever, you say? Well, do I have the perfect book for you?

SPEAKER_00 34:50

You do? Oh, please tell me more.

SPEAKER_07 34:53

52, A Tale of Loneliness, is the sixth children's book from talented author Johnny De Palma. It is an award-winning story inspired by the true story of the 52-hertz whale, who has been called the world's loneliest whale. Just like Brittany.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Just like me. The story is beautifully written and illustrated. It's a great way for families and teachers to help spark conversations of empathy, joy, and self-acceptance. And what critics are calling poignant, original, a beautiful tale for all ages, and a joy to read.

SPEAKER_07 35:26

Right now, Nightcap listeners can get their own copy of 52 for an amazingly discounted price by going to Okebees.com. That's O-A-K-I-E-B-E-E-S dot com and searching for the book 52. You can also follow the link in our show notes and on our sponsor page at NightcapTruecrime.com.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

This book also comes with a companion audiobook narrated by the one and only Patton Oswald. So everyone, please go order a copy of this book for you and everyone you know and support this beautiful, beautiful story. What foreign fiasco do you have for us? So I picked one out, what was it like three weeks ago, two weeks ago when we were originally gonna do it? Um and then I was going to do a different one that was actually from New Zealand. That is a story that I know relatively well, but I'm gonna save it for a different episode. So I also did a murder matchup type thing. I went onto Murderpedia and it you can sort it by countries. And so I went to females because I want to do a female and went to countries and kind of clicked through until I found one that jumped out at me. And I found this one, and I literally out loud was like, yep, this one's it. So that's the one. Yep. So we are going to Austria. Oh this woman has I cannot pronounce the full name. Goyd Sarge. Is it Sarge? Okay. Estebali. What? Just joking.

SPEAKER_05 37:02

I've just been watching. Show it Sarge.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Oh, it might probably is. Yeah, something sarge. Sarge? Estebalis Caranza Zabala. But I'll mostly just be calling, yeah. Oh she mostly goes by Estebala Estebali's Caranza. I'm gonna mostly call her Estee. Um aka the ice cream killer.

unknown 37:25

What?

SPEAKER_00 37:27

So on June 6, 2011, maintenance workers were called to a building in Austria to do some repairs and maintenance after water pipes had burst in the basement of the building. The building had several small shops, including an ice cream parlor. Workers almost immediately noticed that there was like un uneven concrete patches on the basement floor, but they sort of just like shrugged it off. Soon after, though, their shovels hit something hard and metallic, and they knew immediately, like, that doesn't seem right. So after they did a little bit more digging, they discovered a freezer and large ice cream tubs filled with concrete as well as human remains. What yeah. So Estibalde's Carranza, I'm so sorry for how bad I butchered that, was born September 6th, 1978 in Mexico City. At the age of five, she moved to Spain with her family. So it was her father, her mother, and her younger brother. Um, and she grew up in Barcelona. She reportedly had a really like rough relationship with her father from a young age and often had built-up murder fantasies against him as a child. She went to school for economics at the University of Barcelona because that is what her father wanted her to do. And then while she was in school, she had a five-year relationship with her first partner. She said in statements that he essentially saw her as his property, and so he treated her as such. Oh, great. She uh was interested in a serious relationship, and he wasn't really. So he left her because she wanted more than he did after she graduated. And at this time, her murder fantasies against men who controlled her switched to him, and she had started trying to think of ways to kill him. Oh fuck. She didn't though. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

So that's normal. That's a normal thing. That's pretty normal for ex-boyfriends.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I mean, you know. So soon after this breakup, she um abruptly left Spain and she moved to Germany, where she worked as an all-pair in Munich. And when is that? An au-pair is typically um someone kind of comes from another country and works as like a nanny for a family. You know, yeah, it's usually an opportunity for someone to visit another country and work and yeah, work as a nanny. Um interesting. So like babies, because isn't there a language barrier there? Families. Well, a lot of times, so like um a good friend of mine had uh an au pair from uh I think it was Korea, and come here. And so she her her kids, they live in America, but her kids also speak Korean. Oh, yeah. And so the au-pair was from Korea. So it's kind of like an opportunity for the kids to, you know, even if they don't know that language, they can learn that language. And okay. Yeah, it's usually done through programs. So, you know, that's kind of all addressed. So when the job was over, she went to Bavaria and began working in an ice cream shop. Uh, it was here that she met her first husband. Again, I'm sorry about the names, Holger Holes. Uh, he was working as a refrigerator salesman and was 14 years older than her. After only a few weeks of knowing each other, he proposed to her.

SPEAKER_07 41:03

So they got married in Do not marry someone I just like met.

SPEAKER_05 41:12

I was like, what did I do? Red flag, red flag, red flag.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

But I was also gonna say, like, uh, that name reminds me of like Hogarth Hughes from The Iron Giant. Remember the little boy with the shit with the gun and the squirrel? You guys never seen the friendly or the I didn't watch it.

SPEAKER_08 41:29

You're all on your own on that one.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Oh, somebody's gonna listen, they're gonna be like, Hogarth Hughes. Yeah, well, his mom's super hot. She was like the first like Mrs. Incredible. So you just watch it, it's fine, it's fine, keep going.

SPEAKER_07 41:38

I listen to a lot of true crime and I watch a lot of true crime. My whole life is nothing but true crime. And if there's one lesson I have learned, do not, do not marry someone minutes, days, weeks, even months after you've met them, they will fucking kill you.

SPEAKER_05 42:00

At least wait a year. Come on. No. Two, five, six. Never.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Yeah, you can't marry someone you just met. There's no way you would know them well enough. That's Rush Rosen.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Oh. Yeah, that is. So they got married in 2002, and Esty later said that she immediately regretted it. However, she was desperate to be a mother. It was like all that she ever wanted. So shortly after their wedding, she began to see like a totally different side of her new husband. He became verbally and physically abusive and extremely controlling. No. She had been working various jobs. Um, one of them was uh as a waitress at an ice cream parlor. And I know that we don't call them waitresses and waiters anymore, but it's just how it was worded in these stories. So they're servers. Servers. I was a server. I understand this. Anyways, me too. Me too. Um, so and he would take the money that she earned waiting tables and also took away the paperwork that she would need to travel back to her home country as well. So he uh they stopped having sex soon after they got married. And he would tell her that she was unattractive, even though she would dye her hair and try to dress sexy for him and just make herself more attractive to him. No. So in 2005, Holger said that he would agree to start a family if the two moved to Vienna and open an ice cream parlor together, which is very word stipulations.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

Um and that's super fucking random, too.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

Like, yeah, I'm not gonna bang you and give you babies unless we open an ice cream shop in Vienna, girl. It's the same out.

SPEAKER_07 43:44

Same guy that uh um sells refrigerators.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 43:48

Yes, this is the one that she yes, same one still. I hope I don't see where this is going. You don't. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

So they made the move to Vienna, Austria. And they bought the Schleckeria ice cream parlor. Holger put most of the money into it. And money, you mean? Right. Now he was like a journalist and like he had a lot of money. So he put a lot of money into it and kind of held this over her. Um, oh, real quick, I want to add that so many of the articles, like there are a lot of articles about this story, but half of them are in German. So they were translated, and so they translated kind of weird. And then even articles that seemed like super legit would have really varying like details. I did my best to pick through all these to kind of figure out which ones seemed like the correct details. And none of the details were like major, it was small details that were varying, but I just wanted to throw that in there. I'm gonna say it at the beginning, but um, the Schleckeria ice cream parlor was an ice cream shop that was previously owned by a husband and wife team and had been for like 50 years. So the shop hadn't seen any repairs for like decades. However, after the move, their relationship only got worse. Este said, I began to hate him. I fantasized in my mind over and over again about killing him, about taking the guns he was obsessed with and using one to shoot him in the head. Two years after their move to Vienna, she began an affair with another man, which ultimately led her to wanting to divorce holes. So she went through with a divorce, but he refused to move out of the small apartment that they shared above the ice cream shop, which just like built up her anger and her rage that had started as a child against men even more. So on April 27th, 2008, Esty was dressed up and getting ready to leave the apartment for a date with another man. Her now ex-husband was at his desk playing computer games, which I like picturing, and I would be like, Yeah. And she had said like that he had become like just a fat slob and was lazy and bolded her and everything. She's unattractive and she is yeah, okay, great. And let me tell like this chick, like she is this petite, like very unassuming, like, but pretty. Like he supposedly saw her and told her, like, basically, give up looking. No other man will ever want you, kind of thing. Um, and that is what made Estie snap. Ugh. Estie says there were four of his guns on the table. I took one of them and walked up behind him. I pointed the gun at his head and pulled it once, twice, three times. It was just like the scenario. I hadn't acted over and over in my head, except this time it was real. Holy shit, she's like, this is my fantasy. I don't like country. So this is where some articles said that then she that she then left for her date and came home in the morning. Other ones say that she got a call from an employee down at the ice cream shop. And she, when the phone rang, like she assumed like she's like, Oh my god, it's a cop, someone hurt, you know, this and that. But apparently, just one of the employees being like, We have an issue with the customer, we need you to come down here. So either she went on a date and came back the next morning, or she went down to the shop to help out and then came back up later that night. Um, but she left him dead in the apartment. She came home to her apartment afterwards and faced the reality that she now needed to get rid of the body. So first she popped out. How did she do it, Brittany? How did she do it? Let me tell you. So first she planned to burn it. I guess she covered the body in schnaps and lit it on fire. In the apartment? Yeah. Oh shit. And she thought that he would just turn to ash, but that didn't happen. The fire quickly went out. And the apartment, the apartment filled with smoke, and as she said, he was still intact.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

The fire brigade soon responded to reports of the smoke in the apartment. Este met them at the door and somehow convinced them that she had just had a cooking mishap and that it was all under control. And she later said that she was even shocked that they believed her and left.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Oh, I was just cooking my fucking husband's body.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yeah, NBD. So after burning the body did not work, she then decided that she needed to butcher it. Little Miss Estee went to the hardware store and purchased a chainsaw. Oh she then went back to her apartment and used the saw to dismember his body, cutting it into small pieces.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Can you just imagine for just like two seconds how like messy that would be? Like it's like ashy blood and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

She heard later that well, it says that she uh used the sounds of the whirring ice cream machines to cover up the sound.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Oh my gosh, she wouldn't think.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

She wouldn't think what the she was like, hold on, hold on, hold on. No. And uh something said that like she had told neighbors that it was just a new ice cream machine that she was testing out. Um so she left the body parts in her freezer for months, and the whole body? The pieces, all the pieces that she cut up. She shoved them. I think it was a I think it was like a deep freezer. Oh, his figure. So um the smell was too much, even in the freezer at times. And so she had used different perfumes and air fresheners to try to cover up the smell. Um she said that afterwards she cleaned for days and eventually just kind of gave up and hired professional cleaners to come clean the apartment.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

I want you to clean my apartment, but uh don't touch the freezer. I have a half cow in there and it's uh any questions? I'm gonna still be a 20.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Just shh yeah, you're like shh. So eventually she couldn't take the smell anymore. So she moved the body pieces to large ice cream tubs and covered them with concrete. And then she says, when I got to the bottom of the freezer, there was the torso and the head. I couldn't bring myself to touch them. So I just mixed up more concrete and poured it into the bottom, covering them up completely. I then carried the buckets by hand into the cellar. I was walking past people in the street. I even got some workers nearby to help me carry the freezer into the cellar. Oh my God, no. Ma'am, you need figuring that out later. Well, okay, so this is kind of funny because I had um when my little stimmy stimmy came through, I ordered a recliner for the apartment. Um, and then once my cat started mounting hundreds and hundreds of dollars of vet bills, I was like, I should probably return this recliner. Um, but it was in like a huge box. And so I was like, I'm gonna shove this into my little niece on Versa. I'm gonna fucking figure it out. So I took it out last night and I'm like trying to shove it into my car. And uh there were there were two houseless folks that had kind of they were sitting nearby, and the guy was like, Do you want help with that? And I was like, Yeah. And then um, so he's like helping, he like comes to help, and I was like, It's not too heavy, it's only a couple of bodies in here.

SPEAKER_09 51:37

And he was like pretty, you did it. You did it.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

And he and then he just goes, Well, it wouldn't be the first time. I was like, Mom man, Portland Oregon, folks. I gotta get the fuck out of here. Um, you know, yeah, so I did. Anyways, once the body was moved into the cellar, she began a relationship with a man she had previously been seeing, 48-year-old Manfred Hinterberger. Shortly after this started up again, she found photos of other women on his phone, as well as text messages, some saying, like, I can't wait to see you again, whatever. Uh, she also found an online dating profile for him in which he described his perfect woman and it was not her. Along with all of this shit, she still desperately wanted children, but he already had grown children and he didn't want any more. She had also been having surgeries, like um cosmetic surgeries at his request. So, like nose job, um, fillers, like all this stuff. Like, she just so desperately. Wait, wait, wait. At the new guy's request? With the new guy, yeah. What? So she just so desperately wanted like to be like this princess and be saved and have babies and stuff. This is a dating app disaster, right? So, um, on top of all this, over the course of this relationship, she had been taking shooting lessons and courses in mixing concrete, which didn't know that was a thing, but apparently it is. On November 21st, 2010, Estee and Manfred were lying in bed after a drunken fight. She said, he turned his face to the wall and started snoring. I was so angry. I had the gun under the mattress, I took it out, loaded, and shot. I put four bullets into his head. She then slept on the couch that night and left him to die in their bed. Jesus Christ. Next morning, she was coffee and decided to dispose of the body the same way she did before. But this time she was a little bit more prepared. She had purchased large sheets of plastic to line the walls with and a lot of concrete mix. She cut the body up with her trusty chainsaw, put the pieces into large ice cream tubs, and filled them with concrete, and used a dolly to move the bins down to the cellar to rejoin Holger's remains. She then made an urgent manicure appointment since her nails were wrecked.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

Oh no! Oh no!

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Heaven forbid.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

She's like, There's shit under my fingernails, can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Yeah. So the following year in 2011, Estie had begun a relationship with a new man. Um, she later said that this man was so different from the rest, that he was loving and caring and all that good stuff. And on the morning of June 11th, 2011, she found out that her dreams had come true and she was pregnant with her first child. If June 11th, 2011 sounds like a familiar date, that's because that's also the day that the remains of her two victims were found. Oh. So she had a little bit of happiness. And when she found out she was pregnant, and then quickly caught wind of the news that the bodies had been discovered in the basement of the shop. So she immediately fled to Spain. Authorities found her a few days later living with a street musician, which I don't know why that was so funny to me, and extradited her back to Austria. Um, as soon as she was in Austria, she admitted every detail of the murders. She said that she had covered the sounds of the chainsaw with the wearing of her ice cream machines, and the media had dubbed her Ice Lady, not just because of her connection with the ice cream, but because of how cold-blooded the murders and dismemberment were, and because of just how bluntly she talked about it. During the trial, prosecutor Pit Petra Frey said, This woman has two faces. She will try to play here the part someone well-behaved who would never do something like this. My task is to show you her other side, that she is a singularly cold-blooded and unscrupulous killer. Do not be fooled. Her son was born in January of 2012 and was immediately taken to live with her parents in Barcelona. And um, then I think eventually went to his father. On November 23rd, 2012, she was sentenced to life in a secure mental institution, and she was said found to have had mental abnormalities. She later was moved to a men's prison, though, due to her due to it being believed that she was too dangerous to reside in an institution or a women's prison.

SPEAKER_07 56:35

Yeah, that's an art.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

Well, an article that I read ended it by saying, like, where she'll live out her life listening to thousands of men snore with no chainsaw in sight. I was like, yes. Um, so she wrote a memoir titled My Two Lives: The True Story of the Ice Lady. Um, and the proceeds from that book go to her son and the families of the victims. In a 2014 interview, she said, My actions have destroyed my life and dreams. I have a son, and knowing how much he means to me has shown me how much I took away from two other mothers. I would only want one wish, and that would be to change what happened. And that is the original Ice Queen. Damn. The fuck. Oh, that amazing. I mean, you know, fuck like shitty, but I was like, fuck.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

I'm like, wait, that's that's not Elsa, that's Estee. Yeah, Red Roll, Ice Queen.

SPEAKER_07 57:34

When you first started like talking about this, I didn't think it was gonna be as recent as it is. Like, yep.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

It sounded really old timey. Yeah, it did the whole time. Yeah, no, in the in the early to mid 2000s, in 2008 and 2010 that she did had did the murders.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

Oh, I I literally thought the whole time I heard ice cream and I heard killer, and I was like, she kills fucking kids too. We both got baby killers for sure. But I guess men are just big man babies if they're the wrong type of men. You never know, which is the most. But all right. New Zealand to Austria, murder remains a constant. No matter where you go, just around the corner, crime finds a way.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

So watch yourself. Thank you for listening in on this episode. Tune in next week for another episode of Murder Matchup, where we are each given a randomly selected letter and number. We head on over to murderpedia.org and find the corresponding case. I generated our random numbers and letters or letters and numbers. So Susie is going to do W26. Gavin has L14, and I have S10.

SPEAKER_04 58:55

I landed on W26, which is Gary Allen Walker. What'd you get, Gav?

SPEAKER_08 59:02

I got L14, which is Christopher George Theodore Lamar.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

Let's see, I got S10, which was Jennifer San Marco. Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 59:15

I have no idea who she is, but we're gonna find out. So tune in. If you like what you hear, please make sure to throw us some stars on Apple Podcasts. We like the fives, but you know, we're biased. And leave us a review. It's the easiest way you can show us some love and help us get on the chart.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Also, if you are interested in extra content, head on over to our Patreon and subscribe for either$3 or$10 a month to gain access to sidecar episodes like our bi-weekly pillow talk. We're over new and noteworthy cases, criminals that are just too stupid for their own good, that crazy ass Florida man, as well as a true crime podcast game that even you can play along with.

SPEAKER_07 59:58

I think I'm gonna keep my Mile High Club membership on the ground for now. This episode was amazing. Thank you for listening in, everyone. See you next week. Okay, bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

Gavin, I didn't say anything earlier, but literally the Clementine drink that you're drinking. That's my donkey's name.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

Her name, her name is Clementine, and literally she bucked me off as a child, and I'm fucking duh duh trauma traumatized. Trump. Hey Clementine, can I get a oh yeah!

unknown 1:00:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

Oh god, that's it. We can't do it. We can't do it anymore. We can't do it. We can't do it.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:44

There she is, there she is.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:53

It will never not be funny.