The War on Small Business

Our pal Steven is back for more, and talking about his experience owning a Small Business and the struggles he's faced over the last few years. I'm sure a lot of you can relate, and maybe you have your own insight? From the decline of effective online-advertising, digital monopolies, and ghost competitors, how does one make it out?

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Download this and future episodes of our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocketcasts, and anywhere else to find your favorite shows. You can search Why Are We Like This? and please be sure to subscribe, and/or write a review if possible to help build our show.  Have an idea for a future episode, or want to join us for a conversation? Send us a message with the link above!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Hi, guys. Hi, babe. Hi.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Hi, hi, hi, hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Um, guess who's back? Guess who's back again? Oh, that yes. Guess who's back? Guess who's oh, I don't want to pay for that song. Um, we have a guest again today. We do. We have another guest.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

This is like um the COVID season of RuPaul's Drag Race, where they just recycle like the same two guests the whole season.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

It's Lonnie Love. Lonnie Love is Lonnie Love in the house.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

What's up, Lonnie?

SPEAKER_04 0:58

No, it's our dear friend Steven from our sex episode. Hi, Steven. Hi, Steven. Now, do you prefer Steve or Steven?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Steven. Okay, Steven. Stevie? Can I call you Stevie?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Oh, that sounds like Stevie Nicks. No. Oh, who loves Stevie Nicks.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

She used to put cocaine up her butt. Why? Because well, because it it numbs it for anal sex.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Oh, you mean actually like use powder cocaine up her butt, yeah. Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

And anything that you put up your butt absorbs into your system faster than you. Like I had a friend in San Francisco who used to do Grom Manier enemas, and he said it would get them fucked up super fast. What? Because it absorbs through your um like your colon and your intestine much faster than when it has to go through the digestive system and through the stomach. So you bypass all of the area that it doesn't get absorbed into your system and it goes straight into the area where it gets absorbed immediately into your system, like um letting a Xanax dissolve under your tongue instead of swallowing it with water. As soon as it dissolved, it would hit you faster because you bypass the whole digestive tract. And I and I'm assuming it's bypassing your liver, which means you're getting it completely unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Now, if you do that though, Steven, please do all of your research on the internet first because I don't want to get a call from your partner that you overdosed, giving yourself a graminier enema. But people do it with coffee too. They do coffee enemas because I want to be that wild.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

This is so extreme.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Like if you're at that point, you might have a problem with something.

unknown 2:51

Just gotta watch it.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Seriously, just switch up your drug. Like if you're that much of an alcoholic, start smoking pot. Like if you smoke like an ounce of weed every couple days and your tolerance is built up, uh, try coke or heroin. I mean, just switch it up. It's not that hard. And that way, if when you you just you process your addiction and then you never really fully get addicted to anything. I mean, I've done everything under the sun with the exception of um like psychedelics, which includes uh EMDA or ecstasy. Like I felt that was just playing Russian roulette with my brain. Um, and I haven't done mushrooms, but I did acid twice. The first time was a bad trip. I tried it again because I didn't want it to have a bad trip, um, being my only experience maybe with acid. And the second one was fine, but then I was like, eh, I think I like pot and alcohol better. Um, obviously I've done blow because I talk about it. I like it. Um, like who's that Australian comedian that's the Australian stand-up comedian that we like that's like kind of cute, but like in a bad, straight guy way? Loves cocaine. Jamie, Jamie. I can't remember his name. Yeah, I can't remember his name either.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, you just had a show on Comedy Central. Are you a good name?

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. There is something white on the table, I can tell you that much. Um oh no, tonight, tonight, tonight, tonight, tonight, tonight. Oh, oh, Jim Jeffries. Jim Jeffries, come and visit me in our um a few episodes back in our sex podcast. I'd like to uh say a few things to you, if you don't mind. Um I think he's cute. Um no, tonight's episode is actually a much more serious subject. Um, we are talking about being a small business owner in Southern California and how difficult it is and the obstacles and hurdles that one has to overcome or endure in order to keep their business, their small business, which we are supposed to be all about, thriving from getting gobbled up and taken advantage of and manipulated by larger companies such as Google. And you had a very specific experience with Google that, in my opinion, hearing you talk about it, ruined your business. So I want to get into that, but I also want to back up a little bit and start at the beginning and how successful your business was for many, many years.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

So uh the business uh that I have is a computer repair business that where you go on-site and do remote computer repair for residential and businesses.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

And um basically the business was started in 2006, and we advertised back then in the phone books, because that was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Oh my god. I remember getting the yellow pages every year on my doorstep.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

And so we had contracts with them and we put out ads and stuff, and that's how our business operated at that time.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

And which was you said it was mobile, so you did not have a brick and mortar store that people could go to and find you out.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

It was a home operated business that we just we people would call and I'd drive out to their locations.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

And so uh that worked well, and we did a pretty good business for a few years that way, and then everything started to shift to online advertising. And so we started to look at online stuff like Yelp and Google advertising and stuff like that. And we started with Yelp, and we realized that okay, Yelp is pay to play. It was pay to play, and uh you paid, and we it pushed our ad up to the top, and we got a marginal return on what we were doing.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

And so I've had a horrible experience with Yelp for over a decade, both as a creative director for somebody else's salon and for my own salon. I think they are a nightmare, and I think they manipulate their platform and their format, and they give preferential treatment to people who pay to advertise with them, even though they claim that's not the case.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I definitely believe that Yelp, yeah, Yelp is is favors the consumer over the business 100%.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

Right. And it's also difficult for me to get my head around the fact that you have this platform where people can sign up your business uh uh just to have other people comment on it. And it's like, if that's my business and I don't want to be I don't want it on Yelp, I should have the option to not have my business on Yelp. But they don't give you that. So if you're not participating, then it's not advertising, it's not marketing. And in a lot of cases, with the reviews that they allow to go through, if you don't pay for their services, are negative reviews. And that can I don't see how that isn't slander, especially when I was a creative director. I dealt with one person who wrote a review because she couldn't get in to see us. And I'm like, well, if you didn't receive the service, then you can't leave a freaking review.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Where's our database as business owners for customers that are shitty?

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah, right. Yeah, and I have also found, too, that it's as the business, it's not it's not great to respond to the negative reviews because it just opens the door for more drama and more baloney that you don't need to um operate with and you don't need to to put in that other person's gas tank.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, Yelp was not uh, I mean, if you want a company, I mean, honestly, I've never seen a company do reviews better than Airbnb. They they're the most fair honest reviews I've ever seen. Yeah. Because of the way they do it, it makes sure that everybody is giving the honest review and answers and truth. And Yelp doesn't ensure that.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

So yeah, I think Yelp is a pretty nasty entity. Uh and I know like they were calling me at one point up to three times a day, all with different numbers. So spam calling me, and if I would answer, it was them wanting to let me know about this fabulous discount if I wanted to advertise with them, or you know, I say advertise because that was all they had back in the day, but now you pay to have certain features activated on your profile, and it's just such a bullshit cast system operation, like most things are. And it surprises me now when people are like, Oh, I used Yelp to find whatever. And it's like, really? Like, who uses Yelp anymore? Like the big one for me right now is next door, and I'm not on it, but I'm getting a lot of business from the conversations that are being generated on apps like Nextdoor because they're local, they're they're more intimate, if you will. Um, and people trust their neighbors most of the time, because especially in areas like this, because like attracts like. So it's I think they can trust the opinions because they're coming from people that are most like them, which is where I've positioned myself because people want to do business with others that are most like them. So I attract what I want to have in my chair, so to speak. But Yelp is not that. I don't think that it is something that, like you said, is good for the business at all. So you're making this move to online advertising now from like physical advertising and yellow pages and such. And you started with Yelp, and then um, what was what was your next experience?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Well, so the next thing was to try out Google and advertise locally, but through paid advertising through Google Ads. And when I did that, that was the moment the business went from okay, you know, I can sustain myself and another person to wow, this is an actual business, I can hire people, you know, like that's where it took it. And it brought us a ton of money and um just a ton of new clients and all that.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Because with your business, it's not so much about repeat business. You have to have volume. It's not like my business where my clients have to come in every four to six weeks to get done what they had done last time. Like you might have a customer and you fix their computer and then they don't need you for another year until something happens again.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I mean, obviously, in a break fix business, no one wants to pay to have something that is broken fixed.

SPEAKER_04 11:33

Oh, well, that makes sense, right? Yeah. So, you know, because we think that everything should last forever until we're done with it.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

So, you know, we're dealing with that, and then if we do it correctly and they they have a decent product that may, you know, last a while, yeah, that's correct. That's why we need new clients because things hopefully don't break that frequently for somebody.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

So you need to advertise in a way that generates volume.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Volume.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

So um Google did that for you. Correct. But what was and then what would you say uh was what you had to give back in accruing those costs to advertise? Uh I mean, were you just working harder but and making more money, but then having to give more of it back in advertising costs?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

All takes a percentage of based on how much I'm willing to give for the advertising position. So it's it's a bidding strategy.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

And what is that like Yelp where you like you can say I'm gonna do $10 a day for three days or $5 a day for five days.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Like you can do $10 a day, you could do whatever the freak you want, basically.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

Like it says But if somebody else does $25 a day, they've got more spending power for that day, so they get pushed above you until you're correct.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

You can even do it based on per hour on Google. Like you could say I want to spend more right here at this time.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

So super competitive.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

So there's there's no set budget each month for your advertising efforts. It all depends on how much competition.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

We got our advertising and business rolling with Google. Yeah, my my budget for Google was usually between $3,500 and $5,000 a month.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

I mean $1,500 a month is a big chunk of change.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

$3,500. So $3,500.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

But the difference is $1,500. Yeah, that's a big chunk of change to not know if you're going to get each month.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Now, on the backside of that, even if you were at the low end spending $3,500 or at the high end spending $5,000 a month, were you at least bringing in enough that you were still generating more of a profit than before you started spending that money on Google?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Usually, oh yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Until things went bad. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah, yeah. We were definitely the more, usually the more I spent on advertising, the more I got in return.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Proportionally, too.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Proportionally, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

So um we there were moments in time where I would get a phone call from my partner and he would say, turn off the ads because he the we can't, I can't do any more work.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Too much volume.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I can't do any more work. So we would turn it off for the day and then turn it on the next day.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So and it was, you know, with this kind of business, it was like people when they want their computer fixed, it's they want it fixed yesterday. So it's like if you can't fix it today, then they're gonna find somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

And it's interesting because I remember I, you know, hearing some of your calls, um eavesdropping, if you will, while we were hanging out. And I remember people asking, well, can I just bring it to you? And now it's I understand it's because of their impatience. Correct. Because you were booked.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

First come, first serve. Yeah. You would get to them as soon as you had an opening, and they think, well, if you've got a brick and mortar, I can drop it off and you'll get to it sooner. But even if you had that, that doesn't mean that just because they're dropping their computer off that you're gonna start it before somebody else. It's the job that's booked.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Correct. And that's I actually I find that kind of funny because people would always do that. And I'm like, uh, I still have other people that I understand. It's it doesn't change anything.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

We're all such entitled fuckers, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 15:13

It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Um, okay, so you're advertising with Google, it's expensive, but it's well worth the cost. And Google is what you're going gangbusters. Yeah. Well over six figures. So you were gangbusters, and um you got a really lavish pad, right, up in the hills, and had a gorgeous pool, and and we spent almost every night during the summer there. You had a theater room, which was awesome. We loved it. It even had a candy stand, which was not great for me, but um, it was fantastic, and you guys were doing really well. And then I think was it cut to like November of 2018 or 2019, and something happened, and you didn't know what it was at the time, but now you do. And what was that?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

The day before Thanksgiving, Google decided to pull the plug on advertising for computer repair business and cell phone businesses globally.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Okay, which immediate for me uh immediately red flag. So what was going on?

SPEAKER_00 16:17

So they claimed that it was for so like you know, you get those phone calls. We're Microsoft, you have a problem with your computer, right? You know, do this thing. That's what they were claiming that they were trying to fix because they got a lot of fraudulent people advertising in the listings, but with fake numbers.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

People are calling their victims, their victims aren't looking them up.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Well, I will I will say that there was fraud in that too. Like when you're not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Yeah, but that kind of fraud, that kind of fraud that they're trying to claim that they needed to fix because every special documentary every documentary I've seen, the victims are being called by these telephone centers. They're not like, oh, I need my computer repaired, oh, I'll call this number in India and get robbed.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Exactly. Now, there was people that were advertising from India though on Google, and that's what they claimed that they were trying to stop. Tiny bit of crossing. Here's the thing. So Google says, okay, these are now restricted businesses, you can't advertise on our platform. Okay, you've done this to other businesses in the past, like locksmith or uh garage store repair people, I don't know why. And they've done it to bail bond services as well. And so they said in their clause, in their statement they released that they were going to have a system to where they could verify that you were a legal business, a legitimate business, a legitimate business, like with your address or whatever verification method they needed, and then you can continue advertising.

unknown 17:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

That was never implemented.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

And in addition to that, after all these documentaries came out, has there not been such a drastic drop in the kinds of crimes that they said they were doing this for that they could reinstate the policy?

SPEAKER_00 17:59

There's the same crimes exist, and it the their story is a cover for an something else that I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

So that's my point is that if if their efforts were working, then they'd be able to restore services because the businesses would have been put out of business, right? Correct. Um, well, when you first found out that there was something shady going on that wasn't legitimate to the reason they claim, my first comment to you was they're probably working on creating a Google computer repair service and they don't want any competition on their own computer.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Well, and that touches base on, you know, because Google does make their own computer products and they do make their own cell phones, which are the two industries that they cut out of advertising, that they either just don't want people to repair their own stuff and rather have them buy new ones, or would rather have them use their warranty or repair services.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

It's kind of in line with that law that I believe uh went through in Massachusetts, where my parents currently live, that you had to take the make of your car to their dealership. You couldn't take your Honda over to Toyota or your Volvo over to BMW. You had to take whatever kind of car you drove to get fixed by the manufacturer's dealership services. So even an independent mechanic would be put out of business by that because so I feel like whatever was going on with that over there, there was probably some lobbyist doing the same thing for computer repairs because someone I don't feel like Google would make that kind of decision without someone cashing a really big chart.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

That's what I feel as well. There's something else on the back end. Google's just being told what to do, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Yeah. I think that this country, when it comes to this kind of stuff and protecting the people and our rights and small businesses, which is what this country is supposed to be built on entrepreneurial ship. There needs to be massive form and major regulation moving forward because the powers that be have proven to themselves and to us over the last few decades that they cannot self-regulate.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

They can't and it's those of us that own the small businesses that are suffering from it. And this is our like this is not only are these our businesses financially, but talk about sweat equity, man. I mean, we are putting everything we have into our own businesses. And there are certain people who have absolutely no idea who we are or what we're trying to do sitting in a desk making decisions that could be detrimental to the livelihood of somebody who's just doing something that they really enjoy doing and they can make a they can make a living at it well enough to support themselves. Whether you're making six figures or you're just making enough to not be in debt.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Well, I would say, okay, so an example Google, okay, so uh th this is a really weird statistic, but Google is an advertising business. That's what they are. That's what they've always been, that's how they make all their money. So I think it's like 78% of Google's revenue comes from ad revenue. That's that's their business's ads. That's who they are. A search engine and ad company. And so if you look at all the companies that like if you look at okay, so the 78% of their business was ads. So then if you look at what industry in the ad revenue section made the most amount of money advertising for with Google, uh-huh, it was the computer repair and cell phone repair industry. Now, why would you cut that industry out and and your bullshit story, and how are you making up that additional revenue and not reporting it to anybody? Like it the whole thing stinks to me.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

I agree with you. Was there at one point in time where Google was talking about maybe acquiring Geek Squad?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

I thought I heard something at some point in time that they were talking to Geek Squad, and I thought, well, of course that makes sense. If they're going to buy Geek Squad, then they want they only want to have to advertise. I mean, it's a conflict of interest, right? And it's an antitrust issue, which our country loves to overlook. And it needs to be addressed and it needs to be taken care of. So with this then going on, they drastically reduced your business because now the number one source that you used and paid a premium for has kind of violently disappeared.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

And the other the only other competitor to Google is Bing, but unfortunately nobody's.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

It's not nearly as popular as Google.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I mean Google's dominate Google dominates the search engine at like 94%.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

So I mean, what am I going to get through what four per three percent?

SPEAKER_04 22:56

I mean, the like per of your volume of what you do with Google, yeah. Yeah, and and then I think that's also why there are supposed to be monopoly laws in our country, right? But as of right now, where's the competition? It's not free market.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Not only that, but I mean what they've done is they're basically saying that a you can't this it goes even easier than that for me. They're but Google's basically saying you can't advertise on our platform because you have a specific type of business. That's preferential. Discrimination.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yes. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

I mean, unless and also too, I mean, with as much sex work as being sold on the internet, it's like really like you go onto Google to look up escort agencies, to look up pornography, like all of these, but Google has no problem with that, but they've got a problem with this like um hi, we're from Microsoft, we need uh access to your computer so we can steal all your money.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Well, and it's really lame because you know, at this point I despise this company, but I also need the company to do what I was originally doing, which is to be able to advertise.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

Right. So, what is the state of your business now? So, where where have things gone and how did they get there from when we were living it up in the summertime?

SPEAKER_00 24:24

A year, a year essentially, for me to go through, you know, like it's it was a slow decline because I had no new clients. So, and then slowly it declined to basically only a handful of clients call me, you know, when they have a problem because I don't have any new clients anymore.

SPEAKER_04 24:42

And and so because of that, you've started a new business where you had to invest in a home and you've you now rent it as an Airbnb, which is seasonal, so and and also not uh like a paycheck, and certainly nothing that you've had long enough where you have sort of a baseline to know what you can live off of each month.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Correct. Yeah, we started an Airbnb and that's going okay, but it's seasonal, correct.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

And what about like how has your life like the the landscape of your life changed? Like looking at you the way that you used to live versus the way that you live now as a result of this?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Well, I mean, we went from making six-figure you know income to very little. So I mean it was, you know, we were living in a nice house and things, and if I was to do that over again, I wouldn't necessarily do that, but um save some of the money. But um, you know, we now have a one-bedroom apartment and it's very minimal. And yeah, I yeah. Just that one change from Google changed the entire business and my entire income.

SPEAKER_04 25:48

And I think that that's really important to put out there. I think that people need to understand that, yes, there are certain circumstances to every situation, but this is a trend. This is a pattern of behavior and abusive behavior at that by companies that have managed to buy out our legal system so that they can operate above the law and damage the person that this country is said to have been built for. I think it's quite disgusting. Um, I fortunately have um uh I've had a better experience with my business than you have, but my business has always been a struggle, even when I was working for somebody else. So for me, I kind of feel like I'm never gonna get to a point where I feel like I'm not struggling within my business. And it's definitely cyclical, and I'm coming out of an ebb, thank God, and into a flow, um, as has been my career for the last 25 years. So I'm really grateful for that, but I'm also not living high on the hog either. Like there's the, you know, COVID was crippling for my business. And um yeah, I cannot rely on the resources that I am supposed to be able to rely on. Um, like it would be like the yellow pages saying you can't put your ad in our phone book anymore. Like it's just it's just gross and it's ridiculous. So I just want to put it out there about these companies like Yelp and Google, before people put all their trust in them and give them all of their benefit of the doubt. Know that these power companies have an agenda and we need to keep our eyes open. What advice would you have for any small business owners who might be struggling with a situation like yours where they're either losing business or their marketing and advertising efforts are not paying off like they should?

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Well, I wish somebody could give me advice. Got it.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Okay. I'm not sure. Uh yeah, it's unfortunately Google, because of their dominance, they left really no choice, at least for my industry.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

I mean, there's so maybe we just need to keep an eye out for those lawmakers and politicians that are looking to protect the small business owners, looking to take some of that power and divide it up among a few different options to re-establish and restore free market.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Well, what I will say is there is a uh there's a bill that's going around from state to state. It's called the Right to Repair Bill.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

And that is the it's not just for computers, but it's for electronics and appliances and things. It's basically the right for any consumer to repair their own appliance that they own by being supplied with repair documentation and available parts from the manufacturer, which is not done at this time anymore.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

But it used to be done.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Correct. So it's just encapsulates the computer repair part in it as well. And that's so if that bill passes in California or any state really, then Google kind of has to change with it.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Well, good. So I think it's about time.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

All right. Well, thank you once again, Steve.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

For joining us. And um yeah, come back and catch us again next week. Thanks for listening. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Have a question for us or want to be a guest on our podcast? Email us at hello at misterandmissus.show. Or for more information and episodes, visit our webpage at misterandmissus.show.