Showgirls- The Birth of Nomi

It happened. It's been a long time coming, but Nomi finally convinced Robert to talk about one of her favorite movies, Showgirls. It's a deep dive into a film that many have considered to be a deep dud. But there's a lot taken for granted in this movie, despite the seemingly over-the-top performances, seedy storyline, and nudity galore.
I wouldn't say the movie has heart, but it definitely has soul. Maybe it's just too much of a mirror for most people to be able to face when watching it? Just sayin'. Happy Holiday's ya'll!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Uh nothing. That was just super loud. My poor ear is a fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Oh, I don't have any sound at all. You don't? Really? I have no sound. Can you hear me on the microphone? Yeah, I can hear you great. Okay, then there's an issue with my headphones. Okay. Oh wait, hold on, hold on. Che I sound it like Tina from Bobsburg. Can you check my headphone connections, please? I think the the connection might be loose. Excuse us. We're having some testicular difficulties.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You can't hear it.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

I can hear it, but it's like coming in and out, and it's all like shoddy and stuff. Now I can't hear anything at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Well, I unplugged you. Is that good?

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yes. That is good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It's very loud though. Oh. It's very loud.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

It hurts my my sensitive ears.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Does it really are you just saying that? No, it is loud. Okay. I don't have sensitive ears, but it is loud.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

I don't want them to. Oh no, I can't no, I can't hear anything. No, I've lost all my senses. You say you can't hear anything there. There it is. There it is. There it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Great. Hope everyone enjoyed the first 30 seconds of this show. Welcome to the uh sound effects hour. Happy holidays. That's why we're late tonight.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

That's why we're late tonight. So, so so sorry we're on holiday time.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

That's funny. I said 30 seconds, but it was really a minute and a half. Sorry, gang. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Um this is the second to last episode for the season. We have got one more episode next Sunday after this, and then season three, if you can believe it or not, guys, is uh coming to an end. And then we're gonna take a couple months off, and we will be back for season four. Sabbatical.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Excuse me? Sabatical. We're taking a sabbatical. Sabbatical.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

That's a great word.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Isn't it? I've I've always wanted a reason to say it, and this was the reason for the season.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

The reason for the is it a sabbatical? No, it's a hiatus. We're going on hiatus. Hiatus.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Give me another one.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Sebaceous.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Sebastian.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

That sounds like a character from cruel intentions.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Or a drag queen. Everybody, welcome to the sage, Lady Sebastius.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main stage. Um so it's the holidays. The holidays are seasoned.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

The holiday season. You know how I always know it's the holiday season?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

For the man with the bag.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Because Jared is Jonesin' to watch Black Christmas. But also, um, I always I always mark the season with hearing my two favorite Christmas songs.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Oh, I know what they are. I know what they are. What is they? Would they be. Okay, okay, okay. The first one is Last Christmas by George Michael.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

I don't really care about the other version of the book. No, by George Michael. Just his.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

And then the other one is the sweetest Christmas song sang by Miss Karen Carpenter. Um, but I don't know the name of the song that she sings that she likes so much.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Merry Christmas, darling.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Merry Christmas, darling. But what's the name of the song that she sings?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Girl, that's it. That's the name of the song. That's it. That'd be so although that that reminds me, we were listening. It came up on the radio yesterday and it said remix under the listening, and you and I were both laughing because, like, why is this remixed?

SPEAKER_03 3:55

But it's like, um we got to the market, so we couldn't finish listening to the whole song, but maybe Timberlynn showed up halfway through it.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

No, it it she she breaks Karen Carpenter breaks into a rap in the middle of the song. She does. She she does. She's like, it's me, it's me, your girl Karen C. Ain't nothing my slight bitch at Christmas Eve. And then it goes back into the Merry Christmas, darling.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Happy New Year to as we as we as we celebrate and approach the uh the birth of Jesus Christ, I'm reminded about uh the birth of Nomi and where she came from. And that is uh today's subject. Showgirls.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Such an easy transition.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Jesus Christ. Nomi more. I wanted to introduce the two of you.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Christ, anti-Christ. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

It's funny, I was thinking too, like, it's the season for all of our favorite holiday movies. You know, like Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, Elf, Blackness, Showgirls, The Shining.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

I'm like Zoe Des Chanel. I have a quirky holiday watch list.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

She's so quirky.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

She's so quirky when she did Mary Kate on Saturday Night Live.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Oh, we were watching the Saturday Night Live holiday girls. What is it? The the back home players and Leslie, Leslie, um, I was gonna say Leslie Uggams. Wow, Leslie Jones?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Leslie Jones. Leslie Uggams. She says, my mom's got so many bowls up in this place.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

I'm up to my ass in bowls. Bowls. Give the pen.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

That's really good.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

It's so good. It's so good. Saturday Night Live has been a really good group for a while. Yeah. But we are talking about Showgirls. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Showgirls.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Showgirls does take place around the holidays. We start in October.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Oh, I never made that connection.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

We start in October because remember, there's the haystacks and the jack-o'-lanterns when they arrive and she's uh different places.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Oh, actually, you know, before we start, I'm sorry. For those for our listeners who've never seen the movie before, just as this podcast is not for you. Goodbye, Felicia. Spoiler alert, there are whores in this film. Okay. Go on.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Darling, we're all whores. We take the cash, we cash the check, we show them what they want to see.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I'm I'm joking because it's not necessarily one of my favorite movies, but it is not in any way a bad movie. I've grown to appreciate and love it for many reasons. Uh, not on the same level that you do, but it speaks differently to you.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Well, we're and we're gonna we are gonna get into it because I get defensive with this show.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

I know you do, and I I asked you why you get defensive, and I because I wasn't sure because that is me. Well, you are, yeah, you are innately defensive.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

She defenses No, because that is we will get into this later, but here's the amouse bouche. I am Nomi Malone. Like when I watched that movie, that was me. I was that young kid full of piss and vinegar, and and I relate to it, and people think it's such a farce, but that's because people who think that movie is a farce have never met people who who actually live their lives like the way that these people do, and it's very real. So I get defensive over it because it is real and it does it does resonate with me, but I don't get defensive over like someone's attacking me because they think that that movie's a piece of shit. No, I know. I'm just like, I get defensive because I think, well, you know what, then you're choosing not to see what you don't want to see, and and you're you're being very callous and not empathetic to the way that other people have to live their lives.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

There's a there's a bandwagon mentality about the hatred or just general ridicule of the film.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

There's a bandwagon mentality, period. Yeah. I know. Yeah. The anything. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Um, but there's there is a lot of slack given to this film, whether it's over the top or it's cheesy, or if it's too graphic, or oh my gosh, Jesse Spano's naked. Like all of these reasons to pretend to hate the film. Many people have never seen it and still hate it. Sure. Um, but there's a lot of merit.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

There really is. And I'm excited, so so so excited to dive into it because it's it's a fantastic movie, and um I wish that the powers that be didn't cave to um the the voices, the naysayers. I mean, as as they do, right? Everything is about making money, so you have to play Kate to make money. But I think that if there was a different force behind this movie, it could have had a completely different outcome. And I'm gonna use quickly before we get rolling the analogy of Living Single and Friends. Living Single and Friends are basically the same show. One portrays black people, the other portrays white people. Living Single started first, but Friends skyrocketed because Friends had all of the power of the same Warner Brothers studio behind it that Living Single should have had and didn't. So I think that the message behind what they were trying to do with the movie, based on pandering to critics and voices, really changed the trajectory of the movie in an unfortunate way and really cost Elizabeth Berkeley her career.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

And it's sad, it's sad that that if you don't like something, then don't freaking engage in it.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I don't like that mentality anyway. I don't like it when people yuck people's yum. Shut up. I don't need your opinion for that. I like something for a reason, or oops, sorry. I like something for a reason, or you like something for a reason. There's no I don't have to shit on it. Well, to make myself feel better.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

That's you and me, but that's also not the world at large. Most people, as we now know, as we approach middle age, really it's most people don't know. And so they're just latching on to whatever titillates them the most.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yeah. Speaking of titillation, show girls.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

The show is about to begin.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Titillation. Leave your inhibitions at the door. Inhibition. Inhibition. That too is inhibitions.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

All right, tell us about the movie. Okay. Well, maybe we don't have to do a synopsis because I think people can either look it up, watch it, or they've already seen it.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

So maybe we just let's start then, okay. Let's start with a very quick synopsis. Okay. It's about this girl, Nomi Malone, who arrives in Vegas to be a dancer and works her way through the strip clubs up to one of the topless reviews at the Stardust Hotel. AKA like Jubilee. Correct. And um has a hard time navigating relationships. She's she's a very hot-tempered, high-intensity, all-the-time kind of person. She's come from lots of places, okay? Lots of different places. And she's she's toxic and she's volatile, but all these people are because we're watching a movie about the uh not the playground for the rich and famous or the sandbox, but really the sand pit. Ooh, look at you. So these people are not supposed to be redeeming because this is a movie that represents this side of life, which is a very real side of life. People who have, I would say, been forsaken by the normality of life and have found solace in this world, but it's an amoral world because it's one where people lose their compass. That's the kind of person that's drawn to this world.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I have a question for you. Okay. Do you think that some people are quick to jump to hate this film because they find it far more relatable than they'd like to add on?

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Um, yes, but in a more specific way, not necessarily relatable, but real. If you can't relate to it yourself, you know someone you can, or you read about it in the news, or you can see it on the streets. It's a very real representation of the side of humanity that humanity doesn't want to acknowledge exists. So a lot of the reasons why people say they hate it is just a simple smokescreen for saying the fact that they can't handle the too realistic representation of the reflection that's staring back at them as this movie represents a form of a mirror to our society.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Despite what despite some of the seemingly over-the-top acting performances.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Well, and the over-the-top acting performances, I think, is a comment on the high intensity of the characters that some of these people are. And people say that Elizabeth Berkeley was too high intensity. But Nomi Malone is a high-intensity person, and as someone that understands that particular type of person's struggle, there was a point of my life where I was like that. You can talk to people that when I was training, you can talk to people a new me, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old. I was a very hard person to be around because I was going a hundred miles per hour all the time. I always had something to prove. I had to make sure everybody knew that I was doing what I was supposed to be doing, yada yada, yada. These people exist, and this movie acknowledges that. But it's very difficult for people to acknowledge it because they either have to deal with it or they're not dealing with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

You know, it's also not a unique story in that sense, in regard to the entertainment industry, specifically the performer industry, because performers have to be those types of people in order to survive. You have to be over the top, high energy, always on, always like 100% to be noticed so that you are constantly on that stage. You are selling yourself, is what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Constantly selling yourself in an oversaturated market. So what do you do to stand out?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

You gotta crank it up.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Well, and it and it reminds me of movies like Flashdance and Fame. Like those aren't those are fun movies when we think back on them, but really there's a darkness to those movies too that people I think are ready to gloss over.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Because there's a darkness to life that people gloss over.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

We see what we want to see and and we reject what we don't want to acknowledge. Yeah. It's I mean, human nature is quite simple. We've just over time developed tools to create a better virtual reality for ourselves that make it harder to deny the true reality, but that doesn't mean that the true reality isn't still at play. And as long as we're ignoring it, we're way too vulnerable to it. Fantasy will only take us so far. You know, God will only let the devil get away with so much. We can only wear our blinders for so long before that blindness is going to come back and bite us in the ass. And Showgirls reminds us of that, and we don't like it. So we want to shame it, but we can't shame it for the reality of why we don't like it because that would therefore admit the reality of why we don't like it. So we create all this other shit around it. We're too elevated of a species to appreciate this kind of communication or art. That's bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah. I actually really like most of the movie. I think the uh the performances are incredible. I think the dance performances are amazing. Um, and that goes for all of the like auditions, the rehearsals, and the actual stage performances. I think are so cool. It's all very real.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Like those moments in the movie specifically are very all that jazz to me. Yeah, I love I love that. I love watching those. And the peril production numbers are amazing. Yeah, like Babylonian set that's like very jubilee. Yeah. To like the wedding finale that's very Busby Berkeley.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah, I love that. I think that the relationships and the acting, like the the interactions between the characters, I think is very believable and interesting. Those stories that are telling.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

I do too. And that's my argument when I get defensive, is people who don't know these people are judging them by talking the way that they do about this movie. As someone that ran in that world for the first few years of my adult life, this is how these freaking people acted because we had to, in order to survive, we had to have that shell, that exterior, that bravado.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Sorry, you ran in that world how? In which way? Which world are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 16:37

I well, in terms of the seedy world that this movie operates in, there are moments in my life where I operated in a very seedy world. Either, you know, I was on the fringe or I was doing something myself. So I know these people. I was one of these people.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

We're not talking about when in your early 20s you were a showgirl in Vegas. No. No. Which would have been amazing. That kind of would have been. Wouldn't that be great? The Stardust, welcome to the stage. No me more. Can you imagine? Yeah, I can imagine. I see it every day.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Oh, well. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

You're my showgirl. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

That's your celebrate the birth of Nomi. And in case anybody is wondering, the jump from Malone to Moore, No Me Malone. I mean, I wasn't going to adopt the name because I'm not a character drag queen, I'm an original character. Uh, but know me and then more just sounded appropriate, but it came originally from La More because I was really into the women at the time.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

The movie.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

The movie, the women, the original. And the remake had not been out yet. And um, I was thinking Le More, Le More and Le More, and it was French, and so know me L'Amour, but it just sounded a little too like Fleur-Delie. So, right before I was about to go on stage, and my friend's like, Well, what do I announce you as? By I'm gonna give credit to my dear friend Lycra Sheen, who said, Girl, just fabulous name, and she was a fabulous drag queen. And this was at Harvey's in the Castro in San Francisco, and right before I went on, she told them to announce me as know me more, and I said, do it. And I was know me more ever since. She said, Girl, hate your name, gonna change it. Here we go.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

I know, seriously. Could you imagine?

SPEAKER_03 18:32

RuPaul tried to do that with what was Heidi and Closet? Heidi and Closet is the worst name. See, uh, you can do it, it's not invasion of the body snatchers. You will not lose yourself. No, it's just better branding.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah, I changed my drag name like three times because I just didn't like them anymore.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Well, it's and and it's it's supposed to be credited as sort of ironic that the stage name know me Malone for this character is because she's you know, her name is Polly Ann, it turns out Polly Ann Costello, right? So the joke is that she gets called Pollyanna because she shows up to the audition being a dirty girl who wants to make sure that she comes across as a clean girl and then sees that all the clean girls are looking dirty to get the part. And so she's looked called Pollyanna, and she freaks out because she thought she was called her name Pollyanne, but then she goes and like backstage and quickly blushes herself up and takes her top off, so she's just in a bra and tights on stage. Gorgeous, gorgeous, but the name initially is know me, like know me, and and my Instagram handle is get to know me more. Um, but I just recently watched the documentary You Don't Know Me, which is a really great documentary about the show Showgirls. And one of the thoughts about the name know me is that because it's an adopted stage name, it actually stands for there is no me anymore. And the Malone was because she was alone in the world. There's no Malone. At this point in time, I would I think that that is almost more appropriate for me. Like I feel like when when Nomi is is out, like when Nomi is in full force and she's she's presenting, like there is no me anymore.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

It's a double-sided coin. Like, no, what know me is get to know me more, and then Jared is basically nope, there's no me anymore. It's all know me.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Who's gonna win? Clever girl. Um, there is one thing that I don't like about the movie.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Yeah, it ruins it. It takes the joy out of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

It really does. There is a very difficult to watch um sexual assault scene that it's a rape. Yeah, it's real bad.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

It's a beat and rape.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

And the director's cut turns my stomach.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Um, I uh yeah, at this point, having seen the film a couple times, I am okay with turning the movie off at that point. Not out of like disgust or like I I don't I don't have to watch this. It's me just as a human saying, like, I know that it happens, it exists, I've seen the movie, and I'm happy turning it off at this point. I got my enjoyment out of it.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

It's like when when you had to rent the two DVDs for the whole Titanic movie, the VHS, the VHS, and the first one ended with them making love, like right before the iceberg hit. The hand goes down. It was like this survey done that said that there was like more of the tape one was rented than tape two because people just they loved the first part of that movie. Yeah, and I'm like that. Like for me, my mind, if I didn't actually know these people, I could be okay saying yes, and they all lived happily ever after at the party, and she went off with that guy, and he wasn't a rapist, and they ended up having a relationship, and Nomi's ended up staying with uh Zach. And yeah, that was it. And and Gina was just out of the picture because she was, you know, just a big old bitch, but no. People are more complicated and the story is more complicated and the ending had to be more complicated.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, I think for the sake of the story, it's necessary. It does what it does for the movie, for the show, and then it moves on from there. And I think that there's a real um it is validated in the end. But yeah, I it I agree with you. Like I I know this this the ship sinks at the end, so I don't need to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Right, yeah, exactly. Once you've been through it, that's exactly it just becomes kind of like torture porn at that moment. Every once in a while I make myself finish it, like I did the other day, just to make sure that I'm still like, okay, yep, that's that's still how that owl happens.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I might take note of the time codes next time next time and just skip ahead.

SPEAKER_03 22:59

Mm-hmm. Well, there really isn't actually. I mean, she she she goes to Molly in the bed. We don't need that scene because we know that happens. She says goodbye to Crystal. I mean, we know what that happens there. She beats the shit out of what's his face. Yeah, I don't really need to see that again. We don't need to see that again. And um, and then she hitchhikes out. So it's like it's like yeah, it's it's like what is it? That's like a bar. What is that? And then it's like eight measures of a movie left over. Yeah, seriously. It's like it's all good. You can stop with them at the party and it's all good. I'm okay with that. Yeah, exactly. They simply walk into the wind and we're good.

SPEAKER_04 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

So um, I also want to mention, too, people think that the acting is so bad. I think the acting is so brilliant because people, I mean, like in just take even Kyle McLaughlin, who who was was not really too affected by it. Um, people don't think that he's like that. So he's able to act. And Elizabeth Berkeley isn't like that. That was just the character that she was playing. That Nomi Malone is a high intensity all the time kind of character because she comes from conflict and trauma and loss, right? So if these people are like, don't hire Elizabeth Berkeley because she's too in high intensity, look at what she did with Showgirls, but Elizabeth Berkeley really isn't like that, then what a brilliant fucking actress she is to be so good to make you think that she's like that to portray this role.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

It just baffles me. Like, it just doesn't make sense. Like, why is the matrix not working for me right now?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

People are also very poo-poo-y. Generally unable to discern uh an actor and their decisions and an actor's or what's been asked of an actor by a director. And in this case, we know, having watched the documentary, that the director was asking that of her specifically, knowing full well how intense this character needed to be, right living through this story. Right. Um, and I think people just put that blame on um Elizabeth Berkeley when really there's no blame at all. If anything, the worst actor in the film is the choreographer for me. Gay? Yeah, I just can't.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Well, again, remember that's is it the character or is it the actress that you don't like? Because I don't think that that's how the actor acts in real life.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I've never met the woman, but I think it's the uh it's well, yeah. No, you're right. You're right, because again, the director probably asked.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

We're not supposed to like any of these people, right? But we feel ripped off if if we go see a movie and we don't like somebody, but we're not supposed to like anybody in this movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

No, I think.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

I mean, even Molly, we're supposed to get a little mad at, like, be girl, you're not you're not these white people's doormat.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Right. No, I think I just I I watched.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Now I will say this with Showgirls. I do want to be woke about this shit, right? There are two main uh three main black characters in this movie, right? There's the guy that wants to get in her pants, is the choreographer, and he's the bouncer.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

The other dancer from like the club. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

Okay, right? And then there's also the dancer with the really short hair, uh, who always gets into the fight with the girl with the braids. No, and I don't memorize all these actors because I'm in it for the story, too. Like, I like as many times as I've seen this, I'm not that's trivial. Yeah, I'm not an IMDB trivia thing with this stuff. I I focus on like certain elements of it, which are the relationships. But yeah, sure. Um and then and then there is her best friend, Molly. Who's the seamstress? Who is the seamstress? Right. They all end badly. Now, all these people are supposed to end badly, but why is it that we only see the black characters in this movie actually ending badly? So with James, he gets the other girl pregnant, he performs, they hate it, he's going to go live somewhere out in the sticks and manage the family's grocery store. Molly gets raped and beaten and is left in the hospital, and then the um the show girl uh slips, falls, breaks her knee, and is out. Like goodbye dancing career. Now, these people that we don't supposed to like were not that they have horrible endings because they create and manifest these endings for themselves, right? But we only really witness those three characters, and they're all kind of well, James isn't, but the women are both violent ends.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yeah. That's too bad.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

So that I mean to me, it's like, why aren't people upset about that? Why couldn't we have a little bit better understanding of both sides of that fence? Why isn't that the focus in the argument at the time? Why are we then being focused on destroying the careers of these women who were representing these characters?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

If the movie were to come out today, it would be.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Let's remake it. Is Verhoven, did we lose Esther House? Is Verhoven still around? Somebody get me Verhoven!

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Um, okay, wait.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

And let's redo Showgirls.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

New topic. Let's recast Showgirls. Who's in it?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Although, although this time Crystal.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Uh-huh. That's right. You would play Gina Gershawn's character.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yes, yes, yes, I would, and I would I would fucking relish it. The way that I did Nomi, the difference between Nomi and Crystal is that Nomi doesn't realize how great she has what she has. Like when I was 22 and all I wanted to do was be older and successful and rich and married and settled, like I was living this amazing, extraordinary life and doing all these fantastic things and just burning the candle at both ends and living a life that most people would kill for. But it wasn't until I actually started accomplishing the goals that I realized how much fun I had in living that life and accomplishing those goals. Crystal, on the other hand, me at this stage of my life, on the other hand, having been able to recognize that can see it and has a different perspective. And I'm really ready to kind of sink my teeth into a role that's closer to Crystal now than know me, but I will forever be know me.

unknown 29:20

Like it.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Thank you. Nice. Uh, I would cast Ginger Minge as the strip joint hostess.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Oh, yes, Henrietta.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

I would love that.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yes. Oh, Henrietta was great.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Yeah. Um, and then for uh for Nomi, I feel like if this were made today, they would intentionally choose someone like Taylor Swift and be like, wow, look at her range.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Um, but I feel like oh, oh, miss, yes, yes, miss, yes in the back?

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Dakota Schiffer. Oh, from Drag Race.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

That would be really interesting. They should just do a drag race version of Showgirls. Let's just do the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

No, I please. Can we just dance on the thing? So good. We well, we just finished watching an episode of Canada versus the world. Yeah. So we we are drag race fans, but um, I don't like nuts in my brownies, okay?

unknown 30:25

I do.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Oh shit. Oh, I guess opposites attract. Okay. So anyway, um, moving on. I think the main problem with this movie, uh, to kind of to circle back what we just talked about, is that it's um, I think it's too much for a mainstream audience, especially at that time.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yes. This was what 965?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yes, I think this is like September, July, July of '95, July or September of '95. That's yeah. So um, but you know, the whole thing about being like an outsider uh versus mainstream is that eventually what is outside comes around. So if you look at Heather's the TV show, which I thought was really good and clever, yeah, but the bullies now are the outsiders who aren't bullying in like uh beating people up, but they bully them in their sort of like self-righteous um shame spirals, shame spirals and cancel cultures, right? Um and then go cut to um Wednesday, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

The Netflix show.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

The Netflix show about Wednesday Adams. Like the whole idea about Wednesday is that she was an outsider and no one liked her and no one could understand her and no one could relate to her, and she was representative of that girl that all the really popular, let's say, Instagram girls would make fun of. But now, because it's a Netflix sensation, all those same girls that would basically kick dirt in the eye of the girls that Wednesday represents are now dressing up as her and doing TikTok challenges for her and confusing one song for another song, and and Lady Gaga's in on it now, and it's like, geez Louise, talk about bandwagon. Yeah, that's a bit too much for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, it's it's the um there's a good thing about the acceptance of counterculture when it comes to giving people the opportunity to feel like they're a part of something when they are often not a part of something or they're left out of something. But there does seem to be a bit of a um what's the word? An appropriation of the counterculture. And not in a not a in a parallel to racial appropriation, but in a way where it seems like people are jumping on a bandwagon for the sake of jumping on it rather than truly embracing what that culture or counterculture stands for.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

I agree with you, and I think it's because nobody wants to do their own homework, they want it handed to them, so they pick a side or they pick a camp, and whatever that side or camp or team tells them, then that's what they do.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah. And in the case of social media, they show off their individuality by being the same as everyone else.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Exactly. Bingo, without even realizing the hypocrisy behind it.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Dumbest. Well, I think they would say, Oh, that's so ironic, because that is literally so ironic. Literally.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Okay, so a lot of people don't really grasp what irony means. And it's when the um the intended meaning is different than the literal meaning. And an example of what that confusing sentiment means is if you're walking down the street and you see a posted sign that says no graffiti, and then there's graffiti on it. So graffiti on a no graffiti sign is a really good case of what irony is. It's basically the last thing that you would expect out of any outcome in one given situation.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

That's in the song, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:19

It's like graffiti. No, in fact, the song uh Ironic by Alanis Morissette, that is a fantastic song that I think you're referring to, is not the best example of what irony is.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

No, there's a few of them in there that are like, no, not really.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Most people that class would that would say something is ironic really just mean it's it's highly co it's funny, coincidental. It's not what they expected. Yeah, it's it's coincidental or hypocritical. But irony is not really that it's I don't find it that often in in our culture because I don't think that people think the way that people used to think at a time where irony was most prevalent.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

That's fair. Yeah. Well, there's yeah, no, no, no, I'll leave it at that. I was thinking oh Henry, but like look it up. That's fine.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Yep. Now, another person that seemed to get uh out of this movie unscathed was Gina Gershawn, who I believe quickly followed it up with Bound with Jennifer Tilley and Joe Pantaliano, which is another great movie.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Oh, is she bound?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

That was one of the first uh lesbian movies that I had ever heard of.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

What?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah. What? Yeah, it's a lesbian movie, right? It's about lesbians.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Yeah, well, yeah, I would say that's probably yeah, it's about a few things, but it's but I mean it's not the lesbian movie.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

I just mean it's like no, I would not say it's the lesbian movie. It was just one of the first movies that I remember hearing about that wasbian. About lesbian. Lesbian's lesbian. That's a good movie. I like that one. Uh and Kyle Kyle McLaughlin?

SPEAKER_03 35:56

Kyle McLaughlin. Well, Kyle McLachlan's a guy, so he's not really gonna come under. I think he was absolutely hot in this movie. I would totally be down with the Zach Carey.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

He's pretty great, although there are some scenes where it's close up on him and he's got tons of like mascara and stuff on. Yeah, he looks pretty. He is pretty.

SPEAKER_03 36:13

He well, he does not have that coloring naturally. I believe he's got that, he's Scottish, and he was- They had to Vegas him up. He was a client at uh my salon in LA, and no, I did not work on him, but um he was a regular at the salon and a frequent next to my station. And he does not have that complexion. But again, remember, like he's not getting hired to play Kyle McLaughlin. He's getting hired to play this like sleazy guy who drives a convertible Ferrari in the desert. So he's gonna be tan and he looks good right now because he's 32, 33, but in another five or six years, he's gonna look real freaking haggard if he doesn't die of a cocaine overdose. Yeah. But this is this this is a snapshot of these people's uh lives. This is a moment, a keyhole moment into their lives, and and I love it. It is it is an extraordinary cautionary tale. And I think the person who gets hurt the most in this movie are the audience.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

No, oh now we're gonna have a problem, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

No, it's Penny, played by Rena Riffle of Atascadero, California.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

I was just thinking about that character. That's funny. Yes, just thinking about her.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

I think she because the character is just so dumb. She doesn't have a chance, she's in the viper's pit. She doesn't even realize it. Although there is a moment that I didn't even realize till maybe about 10 years ago, when Nomi comes back to talk to James and the club after they failed and they got booed off the stage, and uh Penny is like, ah la la la la la la la Heather, Heather, Heather, because her name was Heather at Cheetah's uh to Nomi. And and then she goes to go get a drink, and uh Nomi and James start talking, and in the background, you see Penny turn around with a very disturbed look on her face as she kind of stares at them before turning back around to walk to the bar. So she's not that dumb, but she's not smart enough to get herself into a better place, and these people around her are just gonna continue to abuse her and suck her up, draw or suck her dry until there's nothing left of her. So she's probably the biggest cautionary tale and and the the widest scope of collateral damage that this movie offers.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah, I don't think of Nomi's story as cautionary. No, well I no, I think that Nomi gets herself into some situations, but I think that she is surrounded by cautionary tales. I think that she's kind of the catalyst for the other characters and watching how their stories tonight, right? No, I really wanted to watch Elf, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Nope, sorry. So this movie is considered to be a part of a trilogy of movies, uh a decade, uh yes, uh a decade, decade, decade trilogy of movies. There are more showgirls? No. Well, there are there, and and the second one is about Penny. No Pennies from Heaven. Showgirls do Pennies from Heaven, where she comes to LA to be an actress, which is actually supposed to be Showgirls 2. It was Nomi hitchhiking to LA. That's how Showgirls ended. Supposed to be Nomi lands in Hollywood, and it was called uh Bimbo's.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Are you making this shit up? Is this Nomi Moore's fanfiction hour?

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Like really, but it wasn't made because of the uh critical failure of Showgirls. But there was a second one that was like Nomi Goes to Hollywood was Bimbo's Nomi Goes to Hollywood, and she basically it's Showgirls 2, but in Hollywood. But it was bad, they didn't do it, so I think it may have been a straight to video movie, Showgirls 2, Penny's from Heaven, and they basically just had Penny do the Nomi role in in Hollywood. That's as far as I know. I've only seen bits and pieces of it because it was really bad. That's crazy, yeah. Um so what was I saying before that? Oh, the trilogy of movies. So and and each one is considered awful at the time and then becomes a cult classic, and each one has an actress that kind of denounces its role or was at least ruined by its role. And the three are Valley of the Dolls, horrible camping movie that totally got panned. Homosexuals picked it up, loved it, turned it into Camp Classic, and Patty Duke denounces the character, and we'll not even talk about it, or that she even played Neilie O'Hara.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Camp cult classic. I mean, that's the way of the cult film, really. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Second one is Mommy Dearest. Yeah. With Joan Crawford. Love. And the third one is Showgirls.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

And I'm in. I am in the I mean that's this should be a box set.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

That's how it works. That's how that's how it is. The movies come out, people shit on them, the gays take it, they turn it around just like the housing market and make things beautiful and wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

We don't turn it around. We don't even have to turn it around. We just have to be like, no, bitches, this is what it means.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

No, you stupid straight.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

It is uh being gay, it's both a blessing and a curse.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's so hard. I'm really tired. It is literally the hardest thing about my life.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Being Nomi, it's like being sisyphus. It's hard. I'm just forever pushing my tuck up that hill. It's a big tuck. I'm tucking up that hill.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Tuck it up the hill. People are gonna get that.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Our British listeners might get that reference.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

What are these? The master tapes.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

The tapes.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Oh, well, let's have an app. We'll have an ab fab Christmas. Can we do that? Let's watch ab.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

We'll have an ab fab Christmas. No, we're watching show girls.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

I got that. You know what's funny? I've had nothing to drink today.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Oh, we gotta get you good. Like I know I'm waiting. I'm waiting for the system today.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

I'm waiting for like the family to show up in a real party in big style this way. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

I've got one more week of work. One more week of work, and then I'm off. My schedule, my books on both sides are clear. It's gonna be good. It's gonna be really good. Really, really good. So I think I think the bottom line with this movie, with Showgirls, and a movie like Showgirls that really has a lot to say, but nobody wants to listen to it is because I think people think that they can always escape the reality of a situation by telling those of us that operate within the real reality that we don't. And I don't want to use the term buzzword gaslighting, because it goes actually beyond gaslighting, and sometimes it's not always gaslighting. But it's definitely uh a deflective third-party majority of perspective situation.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. Agreed.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

And I think that a lot of people collectively have a hard time with the truth of humanity because we want it to be something more than what it really is. And when a movie like Showgirls comes along, a movie like Basic Instinct comes along, people run for the hills because we don't want to be reminded of the things we don't like about ourselves. But you know what? I think being in that place of vulnerability is what makes us stronger because once we're there, we realize we really don't have anything to be afraid about. We're not those people unless we want to be those people.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Because watching showgirls makes you stronger.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Well, it did for me anyway, because I don't know that I would have gotten through what I needed to get through, nor would I've been able to. To experience the great highs that I had if Nomi wasn't born, if I did not have Nomi to get me through that time in my life when I was like, what is this place?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

It didn't for me, but I can appreciate what the film is as a great film and what it's done for people like you.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Yeah. And then just visually, like the veneer of it.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

That's why I like it. It's really good.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

It's shot really well.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah. It makes every time I see one of those dance scenes, I would just want to jump up there and start thrusting.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

I thrusting. I let's hear. Maybe we we gotta find a way. Maybe we'll do like um it won't be a holiday special because we're not working for the holidays, but maybe we'll do like a one-off special where we do a commentary on showgirls. Well, let's you guys want to sit down for an hour and a half and watch this movie while Robert and I comment on this. Like, wait. Let's do it. No, we'll do it. Maybe we'll find a way to even do it live somehow. But we we just I want to go through the movie like that because um I just it's so brilliant. The writing is amazing, the directing is amazing, and I there's just so much more to say about this. Yes, I love it. Is that it? I think that's it. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

I don't have anything else to say about Showgirls.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

If you haven't seen Showgirls, go see Showgirls, strike stream it. You probably have to buy it, rent it. It's it's not easy to find. You can watch it on to be no Pluto TV. You can download Pluto TV for free and you can stream it through Pluto TV unedited, so you'll get all the the swear words and all of the titties and the rape and all that stuff. All the titties, you will get commercials with it. But it's fine, it's like real TV. But it's free and it's unedited. I would recommend watching it that way. Uh otherwise, if you got a DVD player still, look for the DVD. I would definitely suggest getting the director's cut. Be forewarned, the rape scene is extended, check out much more, much more violent. Uh, I don't recommend it for that, but I do recommend it because I do think that it sort of widens the margin of the uh perception of the keyhole. You get a better picture of what's going on, a little bit more backstory because a lot was deleted out of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

There's additional story elements that may not be necessary but are definitely helpful to the film.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah, it's just extra. And this is a movie about people who live in the extra.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

And it's fun. Who doesn't love a director's cut? Seriously.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

I know.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

I like a good director's cut.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

I do too. Because you're seeing the director's full vision, not the studio's vision. For sure. And I think that the studios could do better in protecting their investments when they hire a director to let the director do the job that they're paying them to do. Breach. Yes. On the next entertainment tonight with know me more.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Is that show on anymore?

SPEAKER_03 47:11

I don't think so. But it was around for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Oh no, I was thinking Access Hollywood.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Oh my god, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this. Look at this, look at this. Your Hollywood mug. Where did that come from? Is that nanas? Uh-huh. No. Yes. This thing, I remember this thing as a teenager in my grandparents' house.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

I love a good 80s mug. Oh, I love anything having to do with LA or Hollywood. It's it's a cool, like 80s mugs have a significant shape and like volume and stuff. Anyway, whatever. I digress. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

Digress. I'm I'm I I I always have ups and downs, but I'm kind of like, I sometimes I feel like the Carrie Bradshaw of Los Angeles. Like, I love Los Angeles. And I am really proud to have been born in Los Angeles. Like, I am a proud Angelino. Good. So go watch show, girls.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Girls, she's done. Everyone have a very happy holiday.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Well, we got one more show. Yes. We got one more show. But I still want to say happy holidays. Coming at you. It's gonna be on Sunday the 17th. We will we will really try not to be tardy to the party because you guys are getting this episode. Uh, I think you guys are gonna get this episode about four hours late. You're gonna get it at 10 p.m. instead of six p.m. They'll be fine. You know what? Showgirls, it's NC17 content. Uh so cunt fuck bitch shit, motherfuck, piss, bucket, bleach fart, vagina, cocksucker. All right. There we go. NC 17, late at night only.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Okay, thank you for joining us, everyone. Cheese.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

We'll see you for the holiday show.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

No me more, know me more, and Jesus Christ.