Why Don't I Like Musicals?

What started as a conversation about why Jarrod doesn't enjoy musicals quickly became something much bigger.

From Grease 2 and Book of Mormon to Death Becomes Her, drag, comedy, and storytelling, we explore why some art feels authentic while other art feels performative. Along the way we discuss nostalgia, originality, stereotypes, cancel culture, and why the best conversations aren't about changing minds—they're about expanding them.

This isn't really an episode about musicals.

It's an episode about honesty.

Stay Curious.

Download this and future episodes of our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocketcasts, and anywhere else to find your favorite shows. You can search Why Are We Like This? and please be sure to subscribe, and/or write a review if possible to help build our show.  Have an idea for a future episode, or want to join us for a conversation? Send us a message with the link above!

Transcript

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Jarrod 0:16

Hi. How are you?

Robert 0:19

I'm doing good. It's a nice chill Friday and it's beautiful outside. The sun's starting to come up on nice weather, so I'm looking forward to getting outside.

Jarrod 0:30

I am too. We are nearing the end of our weeklong staycation, which has been really fantastic. Um, and we are going to be discussing musicals today, which is a topic that I really don't like, but I'm willing to explore it because nothing is either 100% good or 100% bad. And I know that musicals are something you really like, and we referenced them in our last or second to last podcast. Um, but and maybe this is maybe this is the frame of mind that it's put me in. So we're we're doing, we normally film these in the evening. We are on stacation. We are filming this in the morning. Um, and then we are headed out to enjoy the sun that has finally come out this week because I'm such a sun baby. Um, so we're doing a morning episode. I'm in my robe, I'm feeling kind of cozy and just into stacation mode. But one of the things that we want to do with this podcast is keep things on the real real, right? And I think a lot of people can look at our relationship from the outside and think that it's perfect or think that it's not real. And it's not perfect, and it is real. And so we kind of had like a perpetual conflict actually before the microphones got turned on, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Mm-hmm.

Jarrod 1:54

So we had a sort of an administrative conversation right before turning the microphones on. And I am not a morning person. I don't do well when I get up having conversations about things. It takes me a while. I have to shower, I have to have my coffee, I have to get my head in the mode for the day. And the administrative conversation while I was in creative mode and excited to film another podcast for you guys or record another podcast for you guys, um, kind of triggered me. And so we have to deal with that. Like the the show must go on, but also the relationship has to go on. And this is, I think, one of those areas where we talk about being committed to each other, where we have perfe perpetual conflicts and they pop up and we have arguments, but then we choose to come back to each other after those arguments. And it's just something that I wanted to process, I wanted to put out there. I didn't want to come into an episode with this sort of angst on my mind and deliver a fake-toned episode to you guys. So I just chose to be like, okay, the best way for me to get over it in this moment is just to be honest about what happened and process it out. What are your thoughts on that? On what just happened?

Robert 3:22

Um, well, uh hi everyone, here's my tea. Um it is it's frustrating uh to want to build something like this podcast and to want to do my best in supporting it for both you and me and us. And then in moments like just a few moments ago, feeling like I'm falling short, not because I'm not capable, but because I'm maybe not paying attention to context cues about specific things that in my mind seem important or top of mind. And in reality, like you had said just a few moments ago, this is administrative stuff that we don't need to be dealing with right now because we're in creative mode, and that's totally right.

Jarrod 4:21

And I'm in morning mode. And I'm sidestepping my morning mode to do something fun with you as my partner.

Robert 4:27

I know. And to be fair, your morning mode also is wake up from nap mode. It's it's essentially you need time to recalibrate yourself. Yeah. When when you have taken the time to shut your body down for sleep, you need time to recalibrate yourself for when you're not doing that. So I can be better at recognizing that. And then also I think that what I was saying before, things that are on top of my mind or that are uh that I'm hyper focused on in that moment aren't very important necessarily. And so I think that there is opportunity to be a little more introspective and thoughtful about what I'm focusing on and determine if that is the thing that need or should or could be focused on, and what could likely take its place in a more productive way.

Jarrod 5:25

I would agree with that. I also think that from the outside looking in, I think that you could also be a little bit easier on yourself in those moments where you think that something is top of mind. Like you did it yesterday with our Disneyland conversation. And I notice that although you get excited and look forward to having downtime, sometimes downtime pushes you into panic mode. You are uncomfortable with not feeling like you are producing something.

Robert 6:01

Sometimes I do.

Jarrod 6:02

And as we near the end of our staycation and I think your batteries have charged, you get either bored and or restless. And when that happens, your mind starts spinning. And it's not that you look for things to focus on or preoccupy yourself with, but when something enters the hamster wheel, you can't let go of it. And like for me, I said like yesterday in the conversations like we don't have to decide this right now. Can we just be present and in the moment? Because my job as someone who's nearly 50 is and has sped my way through life is to slow down, be present, be in the moment. So when I feel you pulling me out of the moment for something that is totally unnecessary because you've got your blinders on, not only does it frustrate me in that moment, but it also takes me back to a place that I've worked really hard to get away from. And I need to make you aware of that as my partner so that you understand I'm not just flying off the handle, right? I'm actually there's there's a reason that I'm being triggered, and I want to communicate that to you because it's important that we communicate through these things rather than just sweeping them under the carpet and letting them fester.

Robert 7:22

I appreciate that because that just breeds resentment and no one can fight against that.

Jarrod 7:26

Right.

Robert 7:27

And I I get it. I don't think that you're flying off the handle in these moments. There are moments where I feel like, well, shit, that came out of nowhere. But if I think on it and process it myself, um, I realize that yeah, it is typically situations where I'm not trying to make up for lost time. I'm not trying to fill up dead time or dead space. I think I'm I'm just I do fixate on things, and there are things that I think are mutually beneficial or interesting to us that we've either talked about before in the past or have said, Oh yeah, let's let's do that or let's think about that. And then when I remember to do that, then that's what I fixate on, right?

Jarrod 8:15

But you also have but you said let's think about that. So that's that's us thinking about it, right? And you and I process things differently at different times. Sometimes I'm faster than you are because it's top of my mind.

Robert 8:30

If I could if I could keep going though, I'm sorry. Sure. So what I'm saying is that sometimes when that happens, be I'm fixating on it because I don't want to be the one who is not presently thinking about that thing that we talked about we were going to do. I don't want to be, I don't want to appear as having dropped the ball. So I try to follow through with it. And I think that what I'm doing is maybe overcompensating in that moment to follow through on something that doesn't need to be followed through in that moment.

Jarrod 9:00

Well, I think that to my point, to go back um to what I said, you you put blinders on and you fixate, and you need to be easier on yourself because everything that you just said in that moment was about you not wanting to fall short. And what did I say? You could be easier on yourself. So the challenge when you enter this mode that I'm referencing is you stop listening to what I'm saying because you become intent on communicating what you think is important so that you are viewed in a certain way rather than just letting the thing happen organically or naturally.

Robert 9:43

Yeah. And I've I've always struggled with that.

Jarrod 9:45

Right. But that doesn't mean that you always have to struggle with that.

Robert 9:48

I know. It's and and I also want to say, I apologize for interrupting you previously, but I just wanted to make sure I got that. I finished my thought.

Jarrod 9:57

I appreciate that, and I know exactly why you did that. And now I'm referencing that because this is not me criticizing you. This is me holding up a mirror to you so that you can be the best version of yourself possible in the most honest and organic way possible.

Robert 10:16

And and I get that, you've done that our entire relationship. Mm-hmm.

Jarrod 10:20

I have. I've and I do that to the world at large. And I think that's why a lot of people have issue with me. Because when you are forced to look at yourself, you see the things that you don't like about yourself, you see the things that you try to hide, you see the things that you run from yourself. And I think because of the trauma I experienced as a child, I just decided it was easier to run through the fire than around it. So speaking of communication, and I do think that this is a good segue for this episode. Musicals. Why are musicals musicals? Why do people choose to communicate the way that they do through song rather than just through spoken words? And I am willing to sit down and truly explore this with you here and now.

Robert 11:07

I don't know why. I mean, I do know why now, because you you aren't necessarily someone No, we're not talking about me anymore.

Jarrod 11:15

We are talking about musicals now.

Robert 11:16

I know. Okay. All right, right?

Jarrod 11:19

Take the blinders off.

Robert 11:20

Yep.

Jarrod 11:21

Right?

Robert 11:22

Yep. Musicals.

Jarrod 11:23

You don't always have to be in the driver's seat to be the kind of person that you want to be. Yeah. Sometimes it's okay to be the passenger princess.

unknown 11:31

Yeah.

Jarrod 11:31

So segueing to musicals because what did we watch last night? Oh.

Robert 11:44

So my first thought is to apologize ahead of time. Because I know that there are people who do like this movie.

Jarrod 11:52

It's not an unlikable movie.

Robert 11:54

No, there are things that I did enjoy about it, but I I I just have to say, as someone who who does like musical theater, I don't like all musicals.

Jarrod 12:04

Quit edging and let the audience know what we watch.

Robert 12:07

Grease too.

Jarrod 12:07

Fucking Grease 2.

Robert 12:09

Grease too. Why? Why was there a Grease? And Didi Khan.

Jarrod 12:16

Uh-huh. And but who's also just inexplicably disappeared halfway through the movie without explanation. Grease. Because they started filming before the script was finished.

Robert 12:25

I've never watched something more frustrating and completely unhinged in in a way that made no sense at any time. I've never seen anything.

Jarrod 12:37

For me, I've seen it a couple times. Um, I have my own memories of of that movie for specific reasons. I it's like I said, it's not an unlikable movie, but it is a horrible musical with the exception of maybe two numbers. I do like I'll Be Your Girl. Um was that? I don't even know what The Talent Show for All Seasons. I'll Be Your Girl. That's cute. Yeah, right. That's a cute moment. That's a cute moment.

Robert 13:01

You could tell that the movie was probably written around that one number.

Jarrod 13:04

Well, because it took them all year to rehearse the talent show.

Robert 13:07

And all the production budget went to those costumes and sets.

Jarrod 13:11

Um, but honestly, my whole reason for ever watching that movie is Maxwell Caulfield.

Robert 13:18

I get that.

Jarrod 13:19

Who, if some of you don't know who he is, he was Rex Manning in Empire Records. Um, he was Brenda's um on the first pilot episode of Men on 210, he was Brenda's older pseudo-love interest. Um, he was also in The Colbees, which was a dynasty spinoff. I think he was at peak hotness in the Colbies, but he is a British actor who is just so freaking dreamy and has some of the best lips on celluloid that I've ever seen.

Robert 13:50

Not even he could save it. No.

Jarrod 13:53

Or Michelle Pfeiffer. And I think this was the movie that she did right before Scarface. Maybe it was so bad. I know. So as a mu so why was it bad for you as someone who actually likes musical theater? For me, it was the epitome and representation of everything I hate about musicals.

Robert 14:07

Well, for me, watching it, I realized why you hate musicals. Because I can see how I can see how you are triggered by patterns within musicals that create um disconnected storytelling through song and often with characters that you haven't had a chance to get to know yet. Yep. And that this was all of that. And I don't want to shit on anyone who who made this, but the songs were all really bad. With the exception of like a couple moments where it's like, that was kind of cute, or that actually sounded like a song from the 60s. That made sense here. Um the storytelling was awful. I didn't care about any of the characters because they didn't give us any time to care about any of them. And what they were telling us, either through song or it's awful dialogue, was not even a story. It was just like, oh, by the way, there's this boy who lived here, he's related to Sandy, so Greece. Right. And then he likes this girl. The girl doesn't like him. She likes guys with motorcycles. I'm gonna get a motorcycle. The end? Mm-hmm.

Jarrod 15:17

It's a convoluted way of telling the story, which is the issue that I have with musicals at large. Now, I think when uh we referenced Earth Girls Are Easy, I I kind of downplayed it. I'm like, there's three numbers in it. No, there I mean that could be it's not a musical, but you made the distinction for me yesterday where I don't like musicals, but sometimes I like films that have musicals in them. And Grease is another one of those. I love the movie Grease, and to me, Greece can be classified as a musical. I don't think that I would enjoy the stage production of Greece, but I love the movie. And I don't know why those songs don't take me out of the storytelling mode, but I'm still I'm still with them when I'm listening to those songs. I'm like, yes, I get it. I know exactly what they're saying. Other times when I watch musicals, I'm like, where are we going now? I know.

Robert 16:11

I think I can tell you why.

Jarrod 16:13

Please do.

Robert 16:13

So Greece is a musical. It was a musical first, I want to say at least five to ten years before it even thought to become a movie. Don't quote me on that. You would not like the stage version. Because I don't like the stage version.

Jarrod 16:28

Okay.

Robert 16:28

I know if I don't like it, you're sure as hell not gonna like it. Yeah. Um, but I think the reason that you like Grease the movie, the reason that you like Earth Girls Are Easy, is because they I believe have a stronger connection to old school musicals and movie musicals compared to what you have seen more recently in what happens with musicals. And that is a very clear storytelling element that is amplified and enhanced by the inclusion of music.

Jarrod 17:04

Got it.

Robert 17:05

And that rarely happens now. Now, now what happens is you have the story, which is typically a movie from the 80s or 90s, right? Like Death becomes her, um Romeo and Michelle, like they're so legally blonde. Yeah, they're all m movies now that are turned into musicals, and no one can give a shit because we know the story, so we don't really have to pay attention, and we just have fun in the moment, and it's often not fun.

Jarrod 17:28

Yep. Well, what was that legally blonde song that like Oh my god, oh my god, you got it. I mean, talk about dumbing down the characters and the story telling.

Robert 17:41

None of them were that.

Jarrod 17:42

Yeah.

Robert 17:42

No, there were Ditzy girls in Legally Blonde, but it wasn't the entire fraternity.

Jarrod 17:48

Right. Well, sometimes I find it too in in that respect insulting to the work that the actor brought to that storytelling element, right? You're you are insulting them, dumbing it down a hundred percent. With something like Earth Girls Are Easy, like, come on, everybody, we're doing a makeover. A makeover in and of itself is sort of a superficial thing. So to have a song about it is in line with the nature and context of what you're singing about.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Right.

Jarrod 18:16

When she's singing um uh that song about Ted after the makeover, right? She's destroying the house. Like, first of all, in a movie, you can film things in that musical moment that you cannot produce on stage. Right. So the the visual part of the storytelling, I think, is just as strong as the the auditory part. Yeah, but it also all makes sense.

Robert 18:39

That's that's what I was getting to is that you because the story is already so strong, and you know where these characters are, you know who they are, you know what they're going through in that moment. Before Gina Davis even starts singing, you watched it all happen. Yeah. This guy treated her like shit, brought another girl home, wanted to have sex with her. She was all glammed up and ready to go to try to make a move on her man that she felt she wasn't connecting with in that moment, and here he's trying to connect with someone else. Yeah, she feels at her lowest, her worst, and she wants revenge. Yeah. So what is she going to do? She's gonna tear the whole house down, she's gonna break all of his stuff. And in doing so, she's singing a song about it that shows where she is in that deep, torn-up, awful moment. She feels bad about herself, she doesn't like who she is, but at the same time, she knows he's a piece of shit. Yeah. And she's singing about that. So there's strength in it. You can see this character growth in that moment. We're like, I don't need him, I'm gonna destroy his house, and I'm still gonna be the strong woman that I am. Yeah, and that's really successful. Grease does that too. Like this the song, um It's also too a really good song that's an amazing.

Jarrod 19:48

Gina Davis lip syncs too in the movie, but it's also a good song.

Robert 19:52

Um and I would say any of the songs in the original Grease, they're silly, they're hokey. Like Beauty School Dropout is ridiculous.

Jarrod 19:58

I don't mind beauty school dropout because I know exactly what they're saying in that moment.

Robert 20:03

It's a dream sequence, they're poking fun at her, but she's actually poking fun at herself. Yes, she's opening up to how badly she feels about herself and how she wants to succeed in life, but feels like she can't.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah.

Robert 20:17

To contrast that, oh my god, oh my god, you guys, you've taken the stereotype of women, you've slapped it across these 20 girls who we don't know yet, but now you've told us that they're all dumb bitches and we shouldn't care about them. Yeah. And it's silly, it's fun, it's catchy, but it's none of that. Yeah. And then you look at something like Wicked, with and that's I know that was tough for you, but still an entertaining show because you like Wizard of Oz.

Jarrod 20:45

Well, the Wicked was fun because we had a friend who was in it, so it was fun to see her. Um, and but I really, I really had a difficult time with it. But I also just for some reason thought you were referencing the movie because I made it like six minutes in and turned it off. I told you not to. I can't.

Robert 21:05

I told you not to watch that without me watching it with you because I was going to fast forward through all the music for you. But with like popular, you know the song Popular, where it and it's it's the number one song, it's the one all the the fat girls with black hair get tattoos of me, love. Oh my god. It's a great song and it's fun, but in that moment you're you're you're seeing the connection of these two women who were at first rivals, yeah, who have found something in common through something so silly. Um, and that's a wonderful storytelling moment that I think even if you hate musicals, you can connect with because you realize what's happening.

Jarrod 21:43

I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Okay. Um I never had as as growing up before high school, pre-high school, um, being the ostracized, bullied adolescent that I was.

Robert 21:58

Tell us alphabet.

Jarrod 21:59

Um, no, I don't, I didn't have like an arch nemesis that I finally became friends with that I could relate to. Right. I never saw myself as the outcast becoming accepted. So for me, that's a moot point because I I Still can't relate to that. And also, sometimes you just, you know, we as a society are so eager to slap a happy veneer on everything, right? We we we want that happy ending. And first of all, until you die, you're not at the ending. And if life is about the journey, not the destination, then make it as authentic and honest as you can be. Sometimes you have to sit with your sick. Sometimes you have to deal with the things that are considered negative. But if you can find yourself, like we talked in the effort episode, about realizing that everything in this world happens for you and not to you, then you know, those years that I spent being bullied and tortured by my peers, those years growing up where the world was extremely unkind to me made me the kind, empathetic person that I am today. So that to me is not, that's not a negative. Would I want to go back and re-experience that? No, unless I could go back with the knowledge that I have today. But then I would navigate it differently. I'd have a different outcome and I might be a different person today. And I really like who I am. So for me, you know, we talk about relatability, I think, a lot in this podcast. And I struggle with relating to the communication style of musicals. And then you enter someone like Sondheim who just takes it to an extremely obnoxious level for me. Like into the woods, into the woods, into the woods, into the woods. It's like, shut the fuck up. Somebody take that energizer battery out.

Robert 23:53

You're not alone. I know. And and I and it's what's funny is sometimes either you'll say it or I'll say it in passing conversation that you don't like musicals. Like we'll go for work sometimes. They're like, oh, is Jared coming? No, I don't know. No, that's not happening.

Jarrod 24:08

Even my aunt, who I adore, I'm like, I just I have I have to dip out of this one.

Robert 24:13

And they're surprised. Like, but you're gay.

Jarrod 24:16

Yes.

Robert 24:17

You're supposed to like musicals. Um. And that feels unfair. That feels unjust. Uh and also musicals are kind of terrible. The way that you were just describing how it kind of wraps a nice little bow on everything. Yeah. I think that that's intentional. And I think that there's a reason that musical theater uh is sometimes referred to as the great American art form.

Jarrod 24:43

Oh, squeeze me.

Robert 24:45

Uh, because there is a a decided effort to wrap everything up in a nice bow and hide the nice things. Uh, and I think that there's also a reason up until maybe the last 20 years that most musicals aren't about sad things. You wouldn't see a musical like next to normal where it's about depression and suicide and death and sadness. The closest you get to that is I don't know. But even that is like the 80s. I I I think you're onto something in that it it it's meant to put a shiny, happy veneer on things I think to make people feel better, right? Like the the musical heyday was probably in the 30s when people were going through the the depression.

Jarrod 25:29

Right.

Robert 25:29

Um but I also think that there's a limit.

Jarrod 25:33

Yeah.

Robert 25:34

And there's plenty of musicals that I've walked out of, like actually bought a ticket and walked out of where I'm like, I can't sit through this. Like you're in town? First of all, why you're you're intentionally trying to be subversive by calling it you're in town.

Jarrod 25:48

Yeah, you're in town. I actually think I was kind of neutral on I didn't hate it, but it's something that I would never intentionally see a second time. Yeah. Um, although Avenue Q is a musical. Avenue Q is one of my favorites. Like Avenue Q. I found it entertaining, but I think the fact that it was through puppets changed the delivery of the tone and the context a little bit. And it firmly had its tongue cheek planted in its cheek. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so as a utilitarian communicator in a Capricorn, I knew that I wasn't trying to be bamboozled by a shiny, happy veneer. It was very clear about what it was doing.

Robert 26:37

Right. And in in this, I think it was made for people like you who love to watch little kids curse or love to watch people get hurt in those like funny uh ways. It knew what it was doing and successfully so.

Jarrod 26:51

I like representations of people who break societal norms. Whereas maybe in traditional musicals, it's setting the standard for societal norms. Don't be sad, be happy. Well, fuck you. Maybe I'm sad in this moment, and as a human being, that is part of my experience and right to enjoy.

Robert 27:08

Yeah, let me sing that song.

Jarrod 27:10

It's a sad song. Like, well, like in Greece when Rizzo sings The Worst I Could Ever Do, right? Like she's talking about teen pregnancy. Like that's a real thing. And it's not da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Right. Like then, then you just lose me, like shiny, happy people.

Robert 27:27

And you talk about relatability like before. I can't relate to Rizzo. I've never been pregnant. I've never dealt with the potential of abortion. But I've been a teenage slut. Um, and I also I catch myself singing that song from time to time because I love it so much. But it her her sense of herself in that moment. Yeah. Is what's relatable. I can relate to being in a position that makes me feel that way, whether I was in the actual position or not. Yeah. And that's important too, whether it's the exact match or not.

Jarrod 28:00

That is one of my favorite things to do to you, which I've kind of run out of. Like I've gone through my Rolodex after 20 years, but I remember like the first time I busted out in like a choral song or a musical number in front of you. Rose's turn from Gypsy. And you were just like, why do you know the words to that? Yeah. Well, that's sort of collateral damage from my career as drag brain. But that that was my favorite thing, was to just kind of shock you with my knowledge base for on something that I hate so much. I hear the tippy tap tap some D's.

Robert 28:34

That's good because it's got something to say. It's like you grew up with 90s drag, which was also you had contemporary music, yeah, pop music, classics, and musical theater. Like you really don't get a lot of musical theater moments in drag anymore unless the queen is specifically raising their hand saying, I'm a theater queen.

Jarrod 28:53

This is what I do. And in the 90s, too, we had production numbers in the shows that I was in, where it was, you know, you didn't just have the individual queens. You started the top of the show after intermission and you ended the show with a production number. Yeah. And the production numbers were all from musicals like Big Spender. And you'd have the cast. You'd have the cast or or like like I mean Big Spender, I think we had three, three or four of us. That's cool. And I was just an alternate. Um, and you rotate it out sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Yeah, it's a cool moment.

Jarrod 29:27

It is a cool, fun moment. And it's also different when you were the one on stage, but it's also different when you're a drag queen lip syncing. I mean, again, talk about the acknowledgement of knowing that one's tongue is firmly planted in their cheek. I mean, that is drag, and drag is a very different form of communication that's supposed to be provocative and subversive and make you think outside of societal norms, which that to me is exciting and stimulating. Right.

Robert 29:54

I that was something that surprised me when we first um first started dating, was because I I had at the time had season tickets to the theater because I just enjoyed going so much. And my assumption, not because you're gay that you like musicals, but because you do drag that you would like musicals, because there are moments where that overlap is so present.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yep.

Robert 30:19

Um but I I I after all this time, I don't think that you hate musicals. I I think that you're just very selective about what musicals, just like anything else, you like.

Jarrod 30:31

Well, I'm also a purist in many forms, right? Like I said, I don't like nuts with my brownies, like I don't like raspberry and my chocolate. And I think that when it comes to musicals, I mean, maybe saying that I hate musicals is too strong of a statement, but I don't do musicals.

Robert 30:51

Right.

Jarrod 30:51

I don't, and and and I've, you know, over the years, I I have tried with you a number of times to do musicals, and I'm miserable. I and I just refuse to allow myself as a hedonist to do things that don't make me feel good.

Robert 31:09

I don't think you should. I don't think there's any reason. I don't think I should either. I don't think there's a reason anyone should. Right. Even when I'm when I'm performing in the gay men's chorus, I don't think you should be there. I appreciate you coming and supporting me. That means a lot to me. Well, but I also don't want you to suffer for three hours supporting me because there are other ways that you can.

Jarrod 31:26

And I wouldn't, I would walk out, you know, if it got to that point. Um you recently guested uh in in a performance for the gay men's chorus of Orange County, but you weren't singing, you were just dancing in it. Right, yeah, and I went to support that because it had been years since I had to do that.

Robert 31:46

Ten.

Jarrod 31:46

Um, ten years, and man, did that fly by. Um, but the last performance I was at for the gay men's course was also totally unhinged, ridiculous. The creative director had no idea of how to do his job properly.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

No.

Jarrod 32:04

Um, and I just don't like sitting through shit shows. No, but I it was important for me because um you had put so much work into it. And also the Gaiman's chorus was singing contemporary songs that I was familiar with, new creative director, and I appreciated where it was coming from. But then again, also realized okay, I got to see you do your thing, but this is why I don't do this kind of thing. It's been 10 years, I gave it another shot, and I still feel the same way. So as an adult that's responsible for myself, it's not, you know, it's not one of those things where it's like, oh, I don't have to do heroin to know I don't want to do heroin. Like musicals, I I have subjected myself to enough exposure of different types of musicals, right? Like the color purple, um, the what was my fair lady, sweeting Mary Poppins. Like I've done all of that at a time where I thought, well, everyone gets so down on me for not liking musicals. Maybe there's something wrong with me. And now I'm like, no, there's nothing wrong with me. Yeah. It's just I have taste.

Robert 33:26

I and I don't, I don't think that.

Jarrod 33:28

I think you do have taste. And and I've given myself the opportunity to experience it. So I'm not just scoffing at something that I don't have experience with. I truly, really, matter-of-factly, I'm miserable when I'm sitting in an uncomfortable chair in a crowded auditorium listening to stuff that I don't want to listen to. I'd rather be poolside with my 80s tunes and my band de soleil, enjoying that experience.

Robert 33:57

I I totally agree with that.

Jarrod 33:58

Or watching something like Grease or Earth Girls Are Easy, where I can follow the story.

Robert 34:02

Yeah.

Jarrod 34:03

And I've seen it so many times that I also know where it's coming. I mean, that's another thing with me. Like, I like to do things that feel safe and comfortable and familiar to me. And with musicals, Jesus Christ, sometimes you never know what you're gonna get. And it's like, I don't want to think that I'm getting on the Matterhorn and realize I've gotten on a Six Flags roller coaster instead.

Robert 34:25

Well, that's that segues into what I wanted to talk about next, which was movies that are turned into musicals, and unjustly so. Okay. Um one of them being Death Becomes Her. I hate it. So I when I first found out about it, they were premiering in Chicago, and I thought, oh, that would be kind of cool for us to go to Chicago and go see the show before it has a chance to maybe bomb or whatever. Yeah. And brought it up to you, and you're like, no, we're not doing that. Um and I immediately understood why. Like it made sense to me in that moment. Like you very quickly saying no wasn't a rejection, it was a realization that like there isn't we don't need this. Like we really don't need it. And it feels more now. I I know the people love it, it's done really well. I'm sure it's great. The people who saw it really enjoyed it.

Jarrod 35:22

People will love anything you tell them they're supposed to love.

Robert 35:25

There's part of that, especially this being like the big gay musical of the year. Like the gays have to love it because there's a song about gays in it and how much they love us as gays.

Jarrod 35:34

Heaven forbid, you're not a stereotype.

Robert 35:36

Right. And it just feels really lazy to me. Now I think that the people who do the work are great. Megan Healthy is wonderful. Megan Healthy's amazing in everything she does, even if it's not great. She's always amazing in it. Yep. And I I appreciate the work that the people do to put on these shows. But I think the show itself is a lazy idea, just like um the other ones that we already talked about. Like Leap of Faith. I remember going to see that. Like, who remembers that movie from Steve Martin? With Steve Martin.

Jarrod 36:08

Oh my god.

Robert 36:09

And I went to go see the show in LA before it went to Broadway for like a week. Yeah. And it was not great. Uh-huh. But they still pushed it because it was the movie that everyone loved. No, it wasn't. Like, what do you don't do that?

Jarrod 36:24

Well, and here's something too. Like, when you bring up Death Becomes Her specifically, Death Becomes Her came out in 1992. And it is a brilliant movie ahead of its time with special effects, and totally and completely underrated. It was a sleeper hit. And I loved that movie from the day it came out. And in high school, my friend Brooke and I like memorized the lines. We'd watch the movie over and over again, and we would say the lines while we were watching the movie. And I was always Madeline Ashton, and she was always Alan Sharp.

Robert 37:01

I I saw it as a kid with my family, and I was the only one who liked it.

Jarrod 37:05

Of course. I was like, this is amazing. Like, that was the biggest piece of shit. You guys just don't get it. Because it's not Michael Bay. It's so dumb. So, no, and that's understandable too, right? Like it. Why there are so many different forms of entertainment because everybody likes something different. Right. Right. Right. Um, and Death becomes her again with this sort of, it's like drop dead gorgeous, right? It's this almost like secret inside of the gay community, like Showgirls, right? There's a specific circle of us that have just always loved these movies, right? And then enter RuPaul's Drag Race and the Drag Race universe and the fandom of Drag Race Universe, and then the popularity of Jinx Monsoon skyrocketing, and her saying that Death Becomes Her is her favorite movie. And within a year, Death Becomes Her has now become this mainstream juggernaut. And then doing so and in turning it into a musical, you've bastardized the message of it and the context in which it was meant to be delivered. And people are not paying attention to the thing that they're supposed to be paying attention to.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah.

Jarrod 38:18

Now, where the musical comes in, and you and I had this because you said, Well, let me, I remember when you brought it up to me, and you're like, Well, well, let me just show you some clips of the musical before you make up your mind. That's what I typically do. Right. And and immediately I said, This in no way, shape, or form is about death becomes her. What they've done is they've hijacked Death Becomes Her and the characters to sell these songs that they wrote for the musical that again have nothing to do with the movie and the message of Death Becomes Her. Right. So I said, no, like, and pardon me, fuck you for hijacking something that's so special to a peripheral group in mainstream society and then appropriating it to your mainstream culture. Right. Get then.

Robert 39:09

And it's different from doing a reboot or a remake of a movie. Right. Because you aren't taking uh something that was made in one art form and keeping it in the same art form and just telling the story through slightly different means or different whatever you decide to do. You're taking it from one art form, completely mishmashing it to morph it into some weird creature that now fits your needs that you've created.

Jarrod 39:38

And it's the famili the familiarity of the popularity of the content that they're hijacking to sell tickets for content that they produced that has nothing to do with what they're using to sell their content for.

Robert 39:52

It's cringy. They made it knowing the gays would come. That's the only reason why.

Jarrod 39:56

I mean, the gays are like everybody else. If you tell them they're supposed to love something, there's going to be a huge group, if not the majority, that are going to be afraid to step outside of the norm and say, I don't like that, because once again, the cheese doesn't like to stand alone. I, having been forced to stand alone my whole life, could give a shit.

Robert 40:15

Yeah.

Jarrod 40:16

I mean, that's what makes me, I think, so dangerous to so many people is that I can say no and walk away and be totally fine.

Robert 40:24

Yeah. It's funny you say drop dead gorgeous because they've been trying to make that into a musical father says ever since.

Jarrod 40:30

So help me God, I will get Becky Lehman on their ass. It's me, Becky. It's so good. And and listen, I have my opinion. It's, you know what they say about opinions, they're like assholes. Everybody has one, and everybody thinks everybody else is stinks. It's just my opinion, and I understand why people create musicals, and I even understand why people bastardize movies or plays to turn them into musicals. But and I've said this about movies too. Like, it's time to start coming up with your original content. Like, stop writing the coattails of what other people have created. Because when you are writing someone's coattails, you are what? Always in their shadow.

Robert 41:19

What's funny about musicals, modern musicals for me too, at this moment, because now the the latest darling is Lost Boys, the musical. Oh everyone's obsessed about it. But here's the thing, babe, this just keeps happening.

Jarrod 41:34

There it is.

Robert 41:34

Wait, before you before you shoot it off before you get too far. This keeps happening every every season. There is a movie from the 80s or 90s that someone turns into a musical, and then all the theater kids in high school are like, it's that cult movie that I love, Mama. I've always loved this before anyone else did. They did the same thing with Heathers 10 years ago. There's no reason to do it. And I don't even like Lost Boys that very much. I I appreciate it. Yeah, I do like to watch it when we watch it, but it's not one of my favorites. But I don't need I don't I don't need that. Yeah, but I don't I feel like that that feels dirty.

Jarrod 42:07

You're not a big fan of Heathers either.

Robert 42:08

No.

Jarrod 42:09

Yeah, and I love both of these movies.

Robert 42:12

Yeah. So the assumption that just because it's a movie that everyone loves, or it's a movie that has a strong cult following, doesn't mean that you need to put 20 songs to it and make it a cash cow. Correct. When you could be doing something that a cash grab. Yeah, grab is is much more accurate. What I wish people would do, like you just said, is come up with your own stories, make something new. And I know that those aren't as marketable, I know that those are harder to sell. That makes it all the more interesting. That makes it all the more successful. Or at the very least, do what they did with cats and take a show that everyone knows and a lot of people hate, including myself, and then mix it up, do something unexpected. So they took cats and to put it into the world of ballroom in the 80s and 90s. And it's weird and it's crazy and it shouldn't work, but it does in a really cool way because you can see that they've done it with intention to tell a new story through an old story, yeah, and to amp old music with new music and to make something completely their own with it.

Jarrod 43:12

Well, and what's wrong with taking a chance on original content? Right? If I know it's the competition, like if everything out there is if every musical out there is a hijacked version of a movie, play, or book, then of course, okay, yes, maybe it's not gonna be the cash grab that people want it to be, right? But if everybody starts making a commitment to the audiences that are paying them to create original content, well, the numbers are still gonna be there because people will now be choosing between five different versions of original content versus five different versions of hijacked content. Right. You people will take what you provide for them or what's available. And then you're giving people, you're truly respecting your audience by giving them the opportunity to choose for themselves what they like or what they don't like. And in doing so, you are elevating the platform of art to a higher level, which is what art should be, because as we've discussed in a Previous episode, art is that is our sort of barometer and reflection of human humanity and society and where we're at. And you know, talking about like time capsules and stuff like that. Like art form in its purest version is beautiful. It is a beautiful storytelling of the human experience. And people have dumbed it down to the lowest baser common denominator so that they can keep people in this moldable manipulative state where they're willing to hand over ridiculous amounts of money for something that they don't need that doesn't enrich their life in any way, shape, or form.

Robert 45:00

I think Book of Mormon is an excellent example of that.

Jarrod 45:04

Okay. I did like Book of Mormon. I forgot about that. I did enjoy Book of Mormon.

Robert 45:08

And 15 years later, it's still selling out. Yeah. Because it's an original story that is thought-provoking and highly offensive, but to everyone and and has the best interests in heart because the story is meant to lift everyone up at the same time. Right. And it's and it's it's it's hilarious. It's everyone can relate to how ridiculous it is.

Jarrod 45:33

And and I shared that article with you about people who laugh at people with disabilities, people who are not a part of the social norm, actually show higher levels of intelligence. And it's the intelligence and the self-awareness that makes those things funny because we're not laughing at the person with the disability. We're laughing at how uncomfortable somebody who is different than everybody else makes normal people feel when they're actually forced to confront the fact that they share this planet with someone who's different than them. So it's the breaking down and the destruction of these false fake social narratives that we create, that happy veneer that we have to put on everything. When someone's actually forced to confront that and accept the fact that this person's in a wheelchair or this person is black or this person is gay, the the the joke is the delivery vehicle. It's not the actual punchline. The punchline is the people who just can't get it.

Robert 46:38

Yeah. It's like um facts of life. What what was her name? Jerry? Yeah. Making cerebral palsy approachable for everyone. Right. Because the joke isn't that she has it. The joke is that everyone is so uncomfortable about her having it in a s in a world that maybe wasn't made for her. Right. And she's making it for her.

Jarrod 47:00

Because it's not the cerebral palsy that's the villain. Right. It's people trying to pretend that it's not there that's the villain. Yeah. And with jokes that address that, you are forcing people to confront the things that make them feel uncomfortable. You are expanding their awareness of a situation and saying, hey, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yeah.

Jarrod 47:20

And the thing with Book of Mormon and the South Park creators is that they are equal opportunity offenders. I love a good gay joke as much as the next person because it's funny. It's funny to poke fun at ourselves. Like, how do you fit four gays on a bar stool? Turn it upside down. I mean, come on. What do you call a bouncer at a gay bar? A flamethrower. Like these are cute, right? I like that. These are good because, first of all, not every gay person fits the stereotype. And stereotypes, again, are these like weird little things that we create to help us deal with something that's different than us that we don't want to take the time to understand, or accept that maybe we won't understand it because that's not our path. That's not our journey. Right. What is our path in our journey is to accept that everybody on this earth is on a journey and to give them the space they need to follow the path that's true to them.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah.

Jarrod 48:20

And these jokes are just a way of trying to break down those social norms and veneers that don't really accept them, but sweep them under the carpet.

Robert 48:30

Right. Stereotypes are only dangerous if you're using them to hurt people.

Jarrod 48:34

Malicious intent.

Robert 48:35

Yeah. Right. It's like that episode of um Modern Family with um the Asian woman. I know we're nights. Who they were just talking about the fact that she was Asian. It was not a big deal, but they were referring to potential stereotypes, knowing that their daughter was also Asian. Yes. And then at one point she flies out of their driveway and hits their garbage cans and knocks them over and says, I didn't see those, and then speeds off. That's hilarious. Because it again is that it's it's reinforcing that stereotype that we know of. And how silly it is. Exactly. That's all it is. It's it's a ridiculous stereotype that is not true, but we can all laugh about the fact that it's not true. Correct.

Jarrod 49:18

Correct.

Robert 49:18

Yeah.

Jarrod 49:19

Well, and this is also too like I want to bring up a moment to talk about the latest roast that we just watched, the roast of Kevin Hart.

Robert 49:26

Yeah, that was a long one.

Jarrod 49:27

That was a long one. We watched it in two parts. It was one of the best roasts. You and I laughed out loud through the entire thing. It was pretty great. All different styles of comedic delivery for this content, right? And they really kind of cut deep. But the tone and the literal message that was spoken by a number of these comedians was how great it is that all of these people can sit in one room and with respect for each other throw these jokes out.

Robert 50:01

You really did have the full gamut of people. You had someone who refers to themselves as a MAGA comedian. Yep. You have someone who represents what could be like the redneck style of comedy. You have someone like Chelsea Handler that's just fighting, white privilege female. Yep. You have a strong black woman comedian, you have a strong black man comedian. Like you have everything there. And it was really cool to watch that all play out. Because if you were just to look at that um the roster, you would think, oh, none of these people are gonna get along. Or none of them is gonna no one's gonna think it's funny because they're just gonna keep making fun of each other for the things that they don't like about them. And that wasn't the case. They were making fun of the things that they have identified with that don't make them who they are, but are still a funny element of what their comedy stands for. Like the MAGA guy they kept making fun of how he's a Nazi and how he uh just it they were along those lines. We know he's not technically a Nazi, but he maybe leans at that.

Jarrod 51:05

He has conservative beliefs that step outside of the gay stereotype.

Robert 51:08

And they acknowledge it and they make jokes about it and they move on. Yep. Or like in the case I I think sure, I assume you're getting to the one whose husband committed suicide.

Jarrod 51:18

Well, I wasn't I wasn't going to specifically reference that. I mean, we had a conversation about that at a dinner table and didn't see eye to eye with somebody about it. But sure, I mean I'm fine to talk about it.

Robert 51:29

And and I don't think that suicide itself is funny because duh.

Jarrod 51:34

It turns out suicide not so hilarious.

Robert 51:38

But again, in the context of this roast, the whole point of the roast is to call attention to things that are either stereotypical or potentially harmful, or what can be on the veneer for someone who maybe isn't thinking about it in a uh in a wider breadth of context or the point about it.

Jarrod 51:59

But how people sidestep things to be nice or polite. Right. When in doing so, you're being unkind by not acknowledging. Right. Yeah. And I think that comedians, these comedians and comedians in general really get that. Like to be a true funny comic, you have to be highly intelligent. Right. Because the thing about comedy and the thing about life in general that a lot of people confuse, and this was my point at that dinner table conversation, is that you have to separate the subject from the object. None of these jokes were about this man's suicide. It was about how people couldn't stand the personality of the woman that he was married to. But yet here they were, obviously sharing the stage with her. So you know that that's not true. Right. But we have to laugh at the things that make us uncomfortable, otherwise, they continue to make us uncomfortable. And you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. So again, you have to separate separate the subject from the object of a statement or a question or a joke.

Robert 53:04

I think that's very succinct. Because you just said it. That the joke is not the suicide. The joke is exactly what you said. Right. That's just the catalyst for what makes it that much funnier.

Jarrod 53:16

The challenge is that the intelligent level, the cognitive capacity that we're talking about is really not there anymore. Right. Right. The knowledge gap is just too wide at this point.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Yeah.

Jarrod 53:29

And people are very quick to victimize themselves. Right.

Robert 53:34

That's even when it doesn't have anything to do with that. That's that's a good point. Because people aren't dumb. I mean, they are, but not everyone is dumb. Yeah.

Jarrod 53:43

Because they they don't know better.

Robert 53:45

Because they choose in that moment to focus on the thing that is meant to distract from everything else. Correct.

Jarrod 53:50

Correct. They hear the word suicide. They're like, oh my gosh, that's not funny. Nope. Turn that off right now. Listen to the whole thing. Right. Like, it's like if you have uh a bad experience or you don't like uh you see a woman wearing a red dress, right? And the woman looks at, you know, your husband, right? If you are another woman. And well, every time you see a red dress, you don't hate the red dress. It might make you think of the woman that you saw wearing the red dress, but you don't hate the red dress. The red dress was not the issue. The issue was the woman who was wearing the red dress and her behavior, her inappropriate behavior, but you choose to focus on the red dress, and then you're missing the plot.

Robert 54:32

We've seen people make connections like that all the time. Correct. And it's ridiculous. Correct. And it shows a sign of ignorance.

Jarrod 54:37

I agree with you. And ignorance is not a bad word. It's not stupid where you know better and still choose differently. Right. It's the lack of exposure. And sometimes ignorance can be feigned. Sometimes ignorance can be um intentional, right? Like, oh, ignorance is bliss. But at its core root, ignorance is not stupid. Ignorance is not bad. It is a lack of exposure through a lack of experience. Right. Period. The more you become familiar with something, the more experience and the exposure you have to something, whether you understand it or not, the more comfortable you become with it. Because through familiarity, you break down the idea that something unfamiliar is a threat to you.

Robert 55:20

And not numb to, not desensitized to not colorblind. If anything, more sensitive to 100%. Because you have a broader experience and you have a broader mindfulness about scenarios.

Jarrod 55:32

Well, and maybe to that, sorry to interrupt, not sensitive, but empathetic.

Robert 55:36

Yeah, yeah, that's that's much better. I uh you'd mentioned before that people are quick to jump to. It's part of the problem that I had with a previous episode that we had when we talked about uh trigger warnings. And I I think that the whole premise behind it is very stupid.

Jarrod 55:55

Um I think we actually I think we took that episode down.

Robert 55:58

Oh. Was it triggering people?

Jarrod 56:01

No. I mean, maybe I didn't we didn't get any we didn't get any mail about it. No, I think I took it down because I got triggered in that episode and and listening back to it, it was very hard for me to hear the elevation in my voice, the hurt in my voice. Yeah. Um, and in that split second, there was contempt in my voice, and I don't want to put out contemptible content.

Robert 56:31

I think that's good. Yeah, and well, and when I say stupid, I don't mean that the people who are affected by that are stupid. But I think that there is a level of mindfulness and awareness and maybe intelligence where when we are faced with some things, like say, for instance, the word suicide, some of us are affected with it by different things, different ways. Um, but we can all choose how we act and how we feel and how we react to things. So I think that the the decision then is to take it upon yourself to do the work necessary to make you feel comfortable about things rather than expecting all of the content influencers, who I don't give a shit about anyway, but to expect them to change their wording from suicide to unalived. Right. Oh my god, stop. You're saying the exact same thing. And now you're getting into semantics because you want to feel good about yourself. Just feel good about yourself.

Jarrod 57:26

Like you think that the word is actually better when the the meaning it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Exactly. No, sometimes it is what you say, and sometimes you just need to say what needs to be said and stop being such a fucking pussy. Right. Like we are all in the same boat, we are all figuring this out as we go along.

Robert 57:47

Right.

Jarrod 57:48

We can be a little bit more gracious with each other and give each other a little bit more room to grow rather than cutting people off with this stupid fucking cancel culture bullshit because someone has a difference of opinion than you. Great, fine, fantastic. What happened to the days where you could have a difference of an opinion and not be someone's enemy because of it?

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Right.

Jarrod 58:12

And what if that difference of opinion is something that's good for us? What if we keep the conversation going? Because we're not trying to change each other's minds, we're trying to expand each other's minds. So we may still never agree, but if I see a little bit more of why you think the way you do, that grows my empathy towards you. And it may not be right for me because different strokes for different folks, but it gives me the empathetic capacity to give you the space that you need for your journey on this planet as a human being.

Robert 58:39

Totally. And that's how I feel about those people too, on the same side of the coin. Like I'm not, I'm not canceling you, I'm not calling you a piece of shit because you are triggered by this word. But I am saying maybe think about what is actually triggering you and what you could do to help yourself, to make yourself. I'm not saying feel better, don't be depressed. I'm saying take a minute.

Jarrod 59:02

Deal with it.

Robert 59:02

And yeah, don't expect everyone to deal with it for you. Correct.

Jarrod 59:06

Deal with life. You are in it to win it. Yeah. Deal with it, show up for it.

Robert 59:10

I have we you and I both have had plenty of things happen to us in our lives that we could be considered triggering if if we're reminded of something. But I don't expect everyone to change the way that they're they live their lives just to make my life easier.

Jarrod 59:24

A hundred percent.

Robert 59:24

I'm gonna figure out what that is, see what I can do to make my life more enjoyable and embrace that rather than hiding in the corner afraid that someone is gonna say the word or do the thing that makes me sad.

Jarrod 59:35

Well, that just means that you haven't processed your own journey. Well, and if you if you don't process it, then you're doomed to repeat it.

Robert 59:42

You don't have to process on Instagram, you just have to keep swiping.

Jarrod 59:46

Wow, that's true. Now, having said all of that, maybe I've finally found out why I don't like musicals, because musicals, in my opinion, and the delivery of the content are not honest, authentic, or organic because they slap a happy veneer on life that isn't always happy or dealing with subject matter that isn't always happy. And in my opinion, it's okay. It's okay to go through bad times. It's okay to experience bad things. Things happen for me, not to me. And happiness should not be measured by a lack of problems in one's life. That is not a proper measure of happiness. Happiness is knowing that you can be vulnerable and yet strong enough to handle what life throws at you because once again, everything is a learning experience. Everything can grow our mindfulness and the self-awareness that you mentioned a few moments earlier.

Robert 1:00:42

I think you hit the nail right on the head. Bink. Yeah. Bonk. And to to amplify what you said, yeah, the the full, the the handful of musicals that you have suffered through or that you do enjoy are those shows that do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Yeah.

Robert 1:00:59

Book of Mormon does that. Yeah. It shows the ugly for the sake of what makes us feel good. Yep. Uh Earth Girls are easy. It's a silly show, but it's honest. Yeah. And it's truthful. And and you're watching these real people play out what is very much an absurdist storyline. Yeah. But is is a relatable moment where a girl just wants to find love.

Jarrod 1:01:22

And pokes fun at pop culture. And in doing so makes me love the pop culture that I grew up in. Yeah. The Valley Girl era. I mean, it's just I have to give a quick shout out to Stacey Travis, who plays Tracy, the girl with the American Express earrings. Who actually the director, Julian Temple, who's Juno Temple's father, uh, those were his credit cards, and she still has them. That's cute. I know. And I love her character. She's just she epitomizes that girl at that time so brilliantly. And has and her body of work is fantastic. Like I even liked her on Soul Plain when she was the flight attendant. It was so good. She's just she's good. So, Stacy, if if you hear this or listen to this, um, I'm gonna watch her with girls are easy at some point today. I do.

Robert 1:02:14

I take back what I said. You do hate musicals.

Jarrod 1:02:18

Okay.

Robert 1:02:19

And I think or you don't do musicals.

Jarrod 1:02:22

I don't do musicals.

Robert 1:02:24

And and I think with every statement like that, uh, it can be perceived as a blanket statement or a means to get someone to shut up or to stop talking about the thing that you don't want to by people who aren't thinking about it. Because clearly you don't hate musicals. Clearly, you have seen musicals and there are musicals that you enjoy. Yeah. But on general, it's a it's a generalized statement about something that you don't care for. Well and I think everyone has something like that. Like, I don't like sports at all. But I like to go and sit and watch a soccer game if I'm in the stadium. Doesn't mean I'm a sport lover.

Jarrod 1:02:58

Well, and I think that, you know, people when when okay, just for like a specific example, if someone likes musicals and you come across me who has a very strong, self-confident opinion that I don't like and I don't do musicals, that's threatening.

Robert 1:03:15

Yeah. Please don't waste your time trying to change my mind.

Jarrod 1:03:18

And that's what it is. Yeah. So you need to be okay if you like musicals with the fact that I don't like musicals, and that doesn't lessen or invalidate your like of musicals. Yeah. It's like with hugs. I'm not a hugger until I really get to know you. And if I don't want to hug you, I'm not gonna take you through my childhood trauma as to why I don't like hugs. But just because you need a hug doesn't mean I have to be the one to give you that hug. And you being a hugger doesn't trump me not being a hugger. So, you know, just do you.

Robert 1:03:53

Yeah. Do you be cool with yourself enough to know that it can just be you, and just be cool with the rest of the world, man. Yeah, don't be all uncooled.

Jarrod 1:04:03

I really don't like that person, but I did just quote her. So there's an Easter egg for you, Housewives fans. And on that note, sun is out, um, 80s tunes are about to blaze, Margarita Slurpee Machine is firing up. It is time for you and me to enjoy your staycation and hit the pool. Yes. All right. Uh, thank you so much for listening, you guys. And uh, if you've got anything that you need to say to us, please do so. We you can get all of our um contact information at the end of this episode. And we will see you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Bye.