Special Guest: Donn Kirkwood: Creating the Conditions for Every Student to Succeed

What happens when educators stop asking, “What’s wrong with this student?” and begin asking, “Have we created the right conditions for this student to succeed?”

In this episode of The Road to an Effective Classroom Environment, Dr. Lashawnte welcomes Donn Kirkwood, nationally recognized educator, speaker, U.S. Army veteran, former North Carolina Outstanding Educator, and Senior Leadership Coach with the Southern Regional Education Board (SREB).

With more than two decades of experience supporting schools, districts, and career and technical education centers, Donn brings a wealth of knowledge about improving teaching, learning, and leadership. His work includes evidence-based instructional practices, instructional rounds, strategic planning, leadership coaching, school culture, and continuous improvement.

During this conversation, Dr. Lashawnte and Donn explore what it takes to move schools from good intentions to intentional action. They discuss the role leaders play in creating environments where teachers can grow, students can thrive, and improvement becomes part of the culture rather than another initiative.

Listeners will gain insight into:

• Creating the conditions that allow every student to succeed
• Strengthening instructional leadership and classroom practices
• Using evidence and observation to drive meaningful school improvement
• Building stronger, more sustainable school cultures
• Supporting teachers through coaching rather than compliance
• Recognizing the untapped potential in students
• Connecting leadership decisions to student outcomes
• Creating continuous improvement systems that last

Donn also shares lessons shaped by his own journey and the experiences that continue to influence his commitment to educators and students across the country.

Whether you are a teacher, CTE educator, instructional coach, assistant principal, principal, district leader, or aspiring administrator, this conversation challenges you to consider an important question:

Are we asking students to succeed within the system we created—or are we intentionally creating a system in which they can succeed?

🎧 Tune in and join us on The Road to an Effective Classroom Environment—where better classrooms begin with intentional educators and leaders.

Connect. Reflect. Lead. Improve.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hello, everyone, and welcome to The Road to an Effective Classroom Environment. I am your host, Dr. Lashonta, known as that Classy Sassy Consultant. And today we have another special guest on the show, Mr. Don Kirkwood. And so we met at a conference this past, it's been probably a few weeks now. It's called the SREB Conference, which is the Southern Regional Education Board. And uh we happened to collide in the well, we didn't actually collide, but he saw me looking a little confused because I was walking around waiting to go to my session to be prepared. And lo and behold, we actually were presenting on similar topics at the exact same time. So I feel like this was destiny for him to be with us today. So you are in for a treat. All of my guests, when they come on, I feel like they are people who are emulating what education should look like. So we have Mr. Don Kirk with today. He is a nationally recognized educator, speaker, and senior leadership coach with SREB. He is also a U.S. Army veteran and former North Carolina outstanding educator. He has spent more than two decades helping schools improving teaching, learning, and leadership through evidence-based instructional practices and also through instructional rounds, strategic planning, and leadership coaching. Drawing from a life shaped by significant challenges, Don is passionate about helping educators recognize the untapped potential in every student. His work has supported schools, districts, career and technical education centers across the country, leading to measurable improvements in student achievement and national recognition for teachers, principals, and schools. Don is a frequent conference presenter who enjoys sharing practical strategies that help educators create engaging classrooms, build school cultures, and develop sustainable systems for continuous improvement. His message is rooted in the belief that every student can succeed when educators create the right conditions for learning. So here we have again for our listening and pleasure, Mr. Don Kirkwood. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Thank you. Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yes, and I am ecstatic we were able to come together because I feel that our audience will benefit from hearing your story. And this is what the road to an effective classroom environment is about is hearing from educators and community leaders and people who impact what our students are doing each and every day in the classroom. So our classroom teachers, we know that they are that direct contact with our students, but there are so many people who are supporting our students in this in this world, in this environment of education. So I thank you again for being a part of the show. So we're gonna just get started. And so I I read a little bit about you, but I know there's so much more behind Don Kirkwood. What are some things that you would like to share with the audience about yourself and and what you do with SREB?

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Oh thank you. Um thank you for the opportunity to have this conversation. How far back do you want to go? Like, do you want me to go all the way back to where it kind of started, where the like the fire, the passion, like why I became who I became?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yes, that's that's what we want to hear. What what put that fire in you?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

What put that fire in me? Ah, I think as a child, I probably was the worst student that you know, just think of that that student that you had that just was a thorn in your side, that just wasn't engaged, didn't want to be there. That was me. And and a lot of it, yeah, there was a lot of bitterness, some experiences. I didn't have the best relationships, was a lot of educators, you know, starting out. You know, I got held back a year, I was being teased by students, I had a speech delay where I couldn't really talk until I was a second grade. I remember back in first grade, I used to be able to read it perfectly in my mind, but then when I was trying to say the words, everyone would make fun of me. And and it got to a point I just didn't want to talk. And and I kind of just kind of hid away, try not to make eye contact, and just try to guide through school, you know, just doing the very minimum so that I could play sports. It wasn't, I mean, I'll be honest, I don't think I did a single bit of homework all the way through high school, not middle school or anything. But, you know, there were some things that were happening in my life at the time. I ended up getting kicked out of the house. Uh I was living one year I lived like 14 different places, you know, and I was really focused on trying to, you know, just to make a little bit of money so I could have a little bit to eat. And then, you know, I was often on, you know, in school. I I even got kicked out of school one time. But then all of a sudden, there there was this one teacher, his name was Ozelle Jackson, and I was just so fascinated with his life. I mean, it's like all of a sudden this this angel just appeared to me, and and I felt like being ending up, I ended up in foster care, so like finally had been someone that I felt like truly authentically cared about me, started to change my perspective of school. He he encouraged me to get involved with FBLA. He even got me signed up for this this camp where I ended up being like a CEO of this of this product, and we were in the competition, and I remember being a part of the team, and it's like all of a sudden, it's like things started to change in my life. And his name was Ozelle Jackson, and he actually was first cousin to Jesse Jackson that ran for president. I just side thing, but he, I mean, he was a business teacher, he had a CPA, he he was in the military, he was a navy SEAL, he was like, I don't know, like 15th degree black belt, and I just wanted to be like him, and so I just remember just kind of like learning everything from him. Of course, by then it was kind of too late. Uh my my GPA that it was pretty bad. I mean, I there's no way I was getting into college, no no one was even talking to me about college. So army recruiter came, said, you know what, you know, take the ASVAB. I took the ASVAB, scored really high. Of course, I didn't know I scored high, but he's like, you could be anything you want to be in the army. I was like, okay, all right. I didn't know it was a catch back then, but you know how recruiters are, and I and I said, I want to be accountant because Ozelle Jackson, my business teacher, he had a CPA, and and I took, I remember taking first place in accounting too competition at state, and I was like, you know, I really like accounting, so I said, you know what? Can I be an accountant? So I got assigned this job. I remember my certificate, it said automated logistical specialist, parentheses accountant. Okay, even though I truly wasn't accountant, I was I was a little sad about that. But as I joined the military, I I started getting opportunities to teach, to learn. They were sending me to some classes and I was getting A's. I was like, how am I getting A's and all this stuff? And I I finally just said, you know what? I'm just gonna have a desire to learn, and and I want to learn everything I possibly can. And then after I got out of the military, I I remember I started working for U.S. Food Services in the warehouse because you know, as an automated logistical specialist, you know, I ended up being really like always the trainer. Like if you needed a certification in hazmat, first aid, forklift operation, crane, like I was the one that would do those certifications. And then, of course, anytime an organization would need a standard operating procedure, a field manual, or technical technical manual, I had the opportunity to create those documents. And if our unit ever got inspected for readiness, I was the main person they would come through and make sure that everything was, you know, like the army said, dressed right to us and ready so that we could be deployable. So when I decided to go to college, I started off just gonna go and be an accountant, and and I read this book, and it said, You should have a career of something you would love doing every day. And I just remember I was at the park, I had little ones at the time. My wife and I were talking, I was like, I love teaching. Why don't I just become a teacher? And I I remember going back and I was like, I need to change everything, I want to be a teacher, and then as I became a teacher, I just believed that everyone can learn because if I could do it, then anyone could do it. And and I re every time I looked at the students, I know they weren't me, but they were having some of the troubles and some of the things I went through, and they needed, I don't know, I wish I had the per a perfect word for it, they needed grace, and and I wanted to be that person that could be a change factor in their life. And and I just wouldn't give up. I I figured I had all a year. One year I had students like in fifth grade science, they were like nine percent proficient, and and now they're in eighth grade, and I'm looking at the data, they have never passed the intergrade test. And I was like, all right, we're gonna do this. And at the end of that year, we we were at 93 proficient with over 50 of the students scoring the highest level on the test, and over 20 of my students had IEP. So it in my mind, uh any student could learn, you just got to find how to meet them where they're at and build their confidence. And and I was able to do it not only in science, I did it in math, I did it in ELA. So all of a sudden, that's when I got someone putting me in for the award for um North Carolina Science, math, technology, ka outstanding educator, and they came out to my classroom, and I remember they sent me an email afterwards, and they said that my students were more socially and academically advanced than they have ever seen in the classroom. And at the time it was kind of ironic. I mean, this was way before COVID. We were doing debate vaccinations, and the students were they were going back and forth, and and I, you know, I just wanted them to take ownership in it, so that's kind of where that journey was. From there, of course, a lot of doors open. The Southern Regional Education Board had asked me for my resume. A lot of people said I could have a deeper impact working for the Southern Regional Education Board. So that's that's how we're that's where I am today. Of course, I I've been with SRAB for 12 years, but that's probably another long story. I gotta let you get back to those questions.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Well, that's look, you have you have unpacked so much and it it explains a lot, just what you have shared so far. And and and I had the opportunity to listen to the YouTube um video in which you were interviewed for your award, and it was very, very much heartfelt. And and I can tell that you are an educator who has a heart for your students. And just having that impact where Mr. Jackson, that one individual, that one individual you looked up to and you said you wanted to be just like him. And you just and and that's what our audience and and our parents, our community members, they need to hear that. Our teachers have a direct impact on our students and whether they're going to learn, they're gonna grow, and how they're gonna interact, we have an impact. When we're in that classroom, we have a direct impact on how our students will be. And it all starts, it begins with us. It begins with us. If we are off kilster, if we go come in and we do not love our job and we're we feel like, oh, I'm just here for a paycheck and the summer's off, because you know there are people out there that believe that. But when we go in there and we are there for the right reasons, then the evidence shows up in our students, not just the test scores, but in the life scores and just how they are, even after they have left our classrooms and after they've gotten their diploma. So I applaud you. And I also want to say thank you for your service in being an Army veteran. My family, everyone, all my uncles on both sides of my family, mom and dad, um, were Army veterans, and my dad, I'm I'm looking at his flag now in my office. And so thank you for your service and what you um what you have done for our country. So next, so we're so I know I'm gonna go back to some of the things you shared because it is it's about those relationships and uh the road to an effective classroom environment, it started with the discussions about relationships. And so it's been intertwined in all the interviews and all of the conversations because I'm a firm believer in developing the relationships, developing the rapport, and making the material relevant to our students, and they will succeed, they will blossom, they're gonna grow. So thank you for sharing your your story about how you came into education and how you've been so impactful. So, what are some practices that you feel consistently lead to stronger student engagement?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I would say probably the biggest one is just being authentic in whatever you do within the classroom. I I remember reading some research that that I really hold true to my heart by Albert Bandera about creating the vicarious experience within the classroom. Like students really need to see you as a teacher do it, not just do it, but think through it. Because naturally, students want to mimic that expert or that person they're looking up to. So I I remember every assignment that I would give my students, I would just sit down and do it with them. You know, it it might be in the modeling, the think aloud the first time, but you know, if I had them create this graphic organizer or or this timeline, I was sitting down creating the timeline myself. That way, if students had questions, they could come and ask me as I was doing it, and we were sharing ideas, just being very visible with my thinking. I found that one to probably be the most effective way, and even as a a consultant or a coach going into the schools, the number one thing I always request is let me model it, let me show it. Don't don't just have me tell you or tell you in theory, let me actually show you how to get engage the students. How do you get every single student leaning on the front of their chair into whatever you might have them do within that activity? Which really leads into really transferring ownership. I would say ownership probably would be the next biggest one. Be authentic, but then at the same time, don't make it about you, make it about the students, something that they could be proud in and whatever they might be creating. It's kind of like we do it naturally when we collaborate around some ideas, and we're sitting at the meeting table and we're like, hey, what do you think about this topic? And everyone's kind of throwing in ideas. I I always try to do the same thing with students, I do the same thing with teachers, I do the same thing with leaders. It's it's sometimes being that true facilitator, just leading that conversation in the direction you want that conversation to go. I think another one would be having very clear learning intentions with success criteria. A lot of times we're good with the learning intentions, we know what we want students to learn. But do we show them what success looks like? And sometimes teachers are a little bit hesitant because it they think they're like giving students the answers. But in a way, is in the learning process that we need some scaffolds, and and students need to fully understand what they're trying to create. And sometimes when we create that box in which they're working in, we get a better product. And of course, by creating a better product, it kind of leads to the last one I would probably say is probably one of the most important things is confidence. When I go in, I I look at students and sometimes on that very, very first day, like they don't even want to speak up. And I remember myself just putting my head down, don't make eye contact. But how can I make them confident where they are not afraid to speak up, not afraid to share ideas, and actually want to contribute to the conversation. I think the best way to really do that is the small group. What I've learned is that students will talk about it with amongst their peers, and if they talk about it and you rotate around, you hear this conversation, then you could ask that student, hey, do you mind sharing that? That was because now you're like validating those ideas so that takes that fear away. So when you come back to the to the whole class and you call on a student, you don't get the crickets, like you know exactly what they're going to say, which then just adds to the whole spectrum of learning within whatever you're you're teaching. So I think, I mean, there's a lot of great strategies out there, but those four are usually the four I try to model every single time. You know, I go into a classroom and work with the teacher. You know, how do you really truly make it about the students learning?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And I love all those answers. I do. Each of them, they they do helps with student engagement. So I I love your answers. So of course, I'll the ones that stood out being authentic. We have we have to show students that we are we are people too. Sometimes they come in our classrooms, they think, okay, this is an adult who's gonna tell me what to do, and I have to follow. But they have to see that we have a personality, we have a sense of humor, you know, they've got to see us in our own, in how we are, and we can't just be, for lack of a better word, so excuse us, you know, drill sergeant. We can't be in the classroom being drill sergeants every day and not and not smiling and so forth. The whole thing, don't smile before Christmas. And I I heard that when I first started teaching, I'm like, okay, I could do that because you know, now I'm more of a smiler now, but my my students always got me to a point where I had no choice but to laugh and and so forth. But I wanted to be that drill sergeant, but we have to show them my authentic self. And of course, those learning intention success criteria, the audience, my audience, they know this is something we talk about in talking about John Hattie's research, and we were in the same realm um in Nashville at the um summer conference with SREB. So those are some of my favorites, but I love all of those answers. So we've Talked a little bit about the student engagement piece. And education has changed so much since you've been in the classroom. So you've been with SREB for the past 12 years. And so there are some things that I haven't been in the club in the classroom as a classroom teacher since it's been a little bit longer. So it's been more than 12 years. It's still 2000 something. I got into administration in 2009. So that was my last year in the classroom. So I tell people I may not be directly teaching students unless I'm modeling for a teacher, but I'm teaching adults. And that's a challenge in itself. But that's a whole nother show for another day. So in talking about that student engagement, there's so many things that have changed over the past five years, the past 10 years, past 20 years. But what are some of the biggest instructional challenges that you're seeing right now when you are working with a school or working with teachers? What are some of the biggest instructional challenges you see?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

You know, there's there's a saying that with a great lesson plan, you will have great classroom management. I think often we overlook the classroom management. And and teachers are making sacrifices with engagement and moving closer to compliance because of the classroom management. There's almost this sense that they have to be in control, and thereby there for being in control, it becomes very heavy teacher-centered, and and there is no release. And so students are becoming just receivers of information. And how do we transform that? So I mean, even if you like look at like the Elliots, it when you look at the engagement with technology, but then during COVID, is like all of a sudden all the learning was being done on technology. And sometimes, and I I saw it a lot right after COVID, like walking into the classrooms, it was like they were doing COVID instruction just in the classroom. And they were just uploading assignment after assignment or program after program. And students were just coming in, going into the Google Classroom or your Schoology and pulling up their assignments, turning in their assignments, and there was very little interaction with the teacher, which I feel is like the teacher is the number one influence of learning in the classroom. And even when we look at tier one, tier two RTI strategies, a lot of like what you said is about the relationship. Those computers don't have relationships with students. And putting a student one-on-one with a computer where they're just clicking through, and you don't even know if they're reading reading the feedback, you don't even know if they're actually listening to the feedback, but you just don't see the growth in the students. And so even though RTI says that the best way to do RTI is small group instruction, positive relationship, constant feedback and collaboration, you just don't see that happening when you walk into a classroom and the teachers just kind of isolated in the area. And sometimes they're saying that they have to monitor everything on Go Guardian. So they're just watching what the students are doing on their screens. And it and sometimes I wonder is like, how did we get here in education? And even when you look at Hattie's work research, uh personalized learning on computers or even your one-to-one, ended up with really low effect size. Like, there's no evidence that that's helping students grow at all. Whereas a teacher working in a small group easily can see where the misconception is, and then probably almost give them immediate feedback to kind of resolve that that misfire or that thinking or that mindset of that direction that student was going in and how they were really conceptually understanding whatever that topic is. So to me, I I I would say it is how we're you are we using technology the most beneficial way in the classroom. Sometimes is what I'm seeing. I don't know. I might have gone way off that question.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

No, I think you have you've hit it. You've you really have hit home on on that response because I'm I'm seeing the same things. There is that that need to use the technology, but I want to use it in such a way so that I I don't have to do the interaction. And then, and as you said, the kids they have to be compliant and they are completing the work, you know, the documents are uploaded, complete this assignment, and that may be well and good for if there's a substitute, understandable, but that but I'm seeing where there is a some of that dependency on the technology for too much and the teachers are not giving enough feedback to students. So you have students that if they're working on the assignment, they're looking, they're answering the questions, looking at that document, and then if they're answering incorrectly, they don't know until the next day or the next two days, depending on when they return back to that class. So now that that wrong knowledge has to be unlearned. So I agree. I feel like that technology since COVID, there's still there's still those that are wanting to use it um mainly to teach so that they don't have to have that. I love the the chaos in the classroom where it's control case control chaos. You can hear all the noise outside of the building, or out well, if it's outside of the building, then it there's a lot of noise going on. But outside of the classroom, you can you can hear students eagerly wanting to answer questions. That's it, that can be controlled chaos. And there are educators that are going into this profession that want that still want students to sit in rows and to be prim and proper, and we were not gonna answer out loud. We can't have those encouraging debates that may get a little heated. I did debates, I taught social studies in an old mind. It was like the Hatfield and McCoy sometimes whenever we're doing debates. So, and and I did it in all from ninth grade to 12th grade, you know, each each social study subject. And those were some of the best conversations in having students to present their arguments. But there are too many, there are too many educators that are still coming in that that don't want to manage the classroom because they don't know how. There are so many other uh different programs and trainings that that educators and administrators can bring into their buildings in order to help teachers with that piece. Now, it's it's beginning to be taught more at the college level. More colleges are offering a course just in classroom management because they see a need. We I see some of the most brilliant teachers that they come in, they have all this knowledge, the content is on point, but they don't know how to handle students who may be different from their own culture or if they're coming from their international teachers. So so I feel like you've hit that right on the head in talking about what some of the challenges are instructionally in our classrooms right now. So let's take a let's talk a little bit about CTE. That's that's the world that I'm in. And I I love CTE. I've only really been in it per se for this is this will be my fourth year at a career center. I actually taught at a career center for one year, and that was my second year teaching, and then they cut social studies and I had to go to another place, but I did have that one year under my belt teaching at a career center. So let's talk about CTE, and there's been a change. CTE used to be vocational, or you were here trade school. So those are some changes, just that the name changes more than just the name change, because there's a lot more that's happened to go from vocational to CTE. So, how would you describe house what CTE is now compared to what it was?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I think CTE has really transformed to meet the need of business and industry. I have an opportunity to really look at workforce alignment, regional reports. Like, I don't know, I probably looked at it so many times where where you look at it, yeah, you look at it. One thing is a livable wage. We don't want students going to college to get debt, to get a job that doesn't pay as much as a job that you would have loved doing if you would have just gone into that profession right out of high school. CTE has been become this bridge between really the academics and the workforce. CTE opens up a lot of opportunities for students. One, we we know experience is very valuable. So with internships, workplace simulations, there's a lot of different ways that we can start building the confidence within the students. Another thing that's really important is the resume. How many certifications, what can we put on that resume before they graduate from high school that will actually give them an advantage? And I've heard some really great stories, like even some of you know, like SurfSafe, like working at you know, just fast food, because a student had that certification, they got promoted to lead right away. Like, so it gives the students an advantage. But looking at this these reports, what what we've noticed is that a lot of these high-paying, high-wage occupations don't always need college. And it seems like there still is this battle that usually resides within the counselors because a lot of counselors know about all the colleges. I mean, that's that's their world world. Until you actually take them out and tour some industry, they don't they don't see it. Like, and it's is one of the most beautiful things. We have done some work up in New York, in Alabama, where we have actually taken counselors out to these industries on industry tours, and and they're like, wow, I need to push manufacturing. I think one of the biggest pivots, why you know, just listening and trying to figure out this huge push. I I think the biggest push right now that that's having the biggest impact, I want to say it's micron. It seemed when all of a sudden this there was this race to make chips that we started to invest a lot more money into CTE, not just into the programs themselves, but into K8 awareness. Like, how do we really get students really aware of potential pathways that that will lead into a really good career for students? So, like looking at those occupational reports like around manufacturing, when you have over 60% of the students go straight into that workforce, all they really need is certifications, maybe some credentials, be completing a program will definitely give them advantage. It it puts those students far ahead of someone that's just applying for that job that hasn't even been hired at that had to gone to a center to get a program degree. Even like I always ask business and industry when I got them on business panels and stuff. I was like, you know, who would you rather hire? Someone that went to a center or someone that went to a traditional high school? And 100% of the time they said to a center because of the employability skills, just because of their certifications. A lot of times, those new employees are are fast-tracked because they really understand and they and they've been in that environment, they have the confidence of that. I think with with parents, they don't fully understand like pathways, like you know, it if you if you have an IT plat pathway and you go into cybersecurity and there's a huge demand, and and you know, that's probably you're looking at 80,000 starting out, right? But you're going to have to go to college, so yeah, you're going to need certain academic classes so that when you finish that program, you could get into you know those college-level classes. But if you're going through a pathway like construction or welding or manufacturing, like, no, you probably need more work-based experience, like more internships, more because what where your promotion in that area in that realm is is at that five-year mark, five years of experience, then usually wherever you're at, and and I did a little bit of research on it, 60% of the the industry will probably pay for your college degree. And so there's this lack of realization within CTE that like you said, it's it was at one time it was let's just put these students here because they're probably not going to college. Right. But now the best jobs don't require college. So how do we change that mindset so that a student, like, okay, if you want a good job, move up in management, making hundreds of thousands of dollars as a CEO. If you want that right pathway, hey, get into a program, get your experience, get into whatever industry it is. I remember talking to Newcore CEOs, all like their last four new core CEOs went to work for Newcore right out of high school. They didn't go on to get a degree. Now, of course, eventually they went in and got those degrees later on down the road, but a lot of times, even listening to you know, senators and representatives at the the state level, they're saying the same thing. Like, we need students right out of high school that that we could train within the workforce. So because of that, CTE is becoming more and more valuable. Now, the issue I've seen with it is that some areas are really good at creating that awareness and recruiting. And so you have centers out there that have like 800 students on a waiting list, but then you also at the same time in other areas you have centers that that can't even fill the seats of a program at the minimum of eight, and even though it's a high demand, that program is looking at getting sunset because there is no no students filling those seats. So I like I mean, that's been my mission, that's been my life. Like, how do we create that awareness that if you're in a pathway and this is what you would love doing for the rest of your life, and a program aligns with that pathway, then why are we not putting a student in that program instead of saying, Oh, wait a second, you need all these AP classes and all this stuff so you could go to college. When in reality, they really don't need to go to college, they need to go to work, and we're you know, they're good at it. I I think where I've seen where it's done really well is when there's a mixture of aptitude and interest. Sometimes when we just get interest, then everyone's just following what their friends are doing, what they're comfortable with, what they're aware with. I I've seen that with cosmetology is like a lot of if you look at the students in a cosmetology class, yeah, you have some that probably could be the next CEO of New Corps if they wanted to be. And they probably are hands-on people that would thrive in that, but they don't even know those options. And and of course, you know, if you go get your hair done and your nails done, like you understand that industry, you understand, like you see the tips, you see all that stuff. So naturally, like, yeah, I'm gonna do that. It's kind of like what they say the fruit doesn't fall too far from the tree. Students naturally want to move towards where that comfort level is. So I like how do we create this awareness? And and I'll be honest, some areas do it extraordinarily well.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

One thing I love about um where the my district is that I'm in, is uh our superintendent. He is all for CTE. So now there's a big spotlight, and so now there's going to be that exposure at the elementary level. So there's been exposure at the middle level because, of course, you have some CTE courses at those middle schools. And of course, with the high schools, they have courses as well. But and then having the career center where I am, where that's all CTE. But now having that exposure at the elementary level, we've got to start there and and with a lot of different instructional um programs that are out there, because even Avid, that's going also to start at all of the elementary schools. It's been at the elementary schools, but making sure that not only Avid is is a presence there with our younger students so that it can go and carry with them all the way through their educational career, but also making sure that CTE, they're exposed to those pathways, to those career clusters, figuring out, you know, making sure that, you know, we know elementary kids, what do when you ask them, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's still the same from 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. They either want to play a sport, play football, play basketball, be a firefighter, a policeman, or a nurse. And you may have some that say a teacher, unless they're parents or teachers and they try to top them out of it. But there is nothing wrong with that, but to know that there is so much more to be exposed. So, you know, we we have some still have some more work to do in the CTE world and making sure that our students know college is great. I went to college, I've I've gone two, three times in order to get what I have. Had I known way back when, I would have been if the career center wasn't, it was an option for me when I was in school, but that was during a time when it was vocational and you were considered a general. Ed student. So that meant if you were general ed, you weren't going to college. And I knew I wanted to go. So missing out on the opportunity to be a hairstylist because I was doing my own hair and doing my mother's hair, my grandmother's hair. So I'm glad to see that there has been that evolution from the vocational to the CTE mindset. And so that our students know that, and our parents, making sure our parents also know the opportunities that they have in going into those professions that don't necessarily require you to go to college. So thank you for that. This has been a great conversation in talking about different aspects of your world and things that have influenced you as well as those areas in which you work in. And so just wanted to ask you a few of just one or two more questions, and then we're going to do our rapid fire round where I'm going to ask you to give me one word. Which one? Which do you prefer? So we're going to do that in just a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Um, so tell me what's what skills will students absolutely need over the next decade? Give me two skills that you feel like they're going to absolutely need over the next 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Communication and problem solving.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Communication and problem solving. And we need to have more of that happening in that school setting. Our students need to know how to communicate. They need to know what our effective communication skills, what those look like. I had to help a young lady today who I had to pull off of the bus because today was our second day of school. I had to help a young lady diffuse the situation because she was arguing with the bus driver. And but the bus driver was arguing back. And so helping her to understand and getting off the bus that I'm responsible for her. I'm not the driver's supervisor, but I'm there to help and protect her, which is why I brought her off so that there would be no more of the arguing. And so just being able to talk to her about the ways to communicate if you feel like someone's wronged you, what you need to do. Let your parent be involved. You don't have to be that one to go back and forth. So help so I was able to help her, along with one or two of my co-workers that helped her to go get some tissue out of the bathroom because she was crying, but able to get her to a place where she was calm. And so helping her, and I told her I'll see her on Tuesday so we can work on, you know, that communication so that she can effectively express how she's feeling without getting in a situation where, you know, she's you know in a state of being agitated and angry. So I I agree with those. I agree with what you're saying as far as skills that they're going to, they'll need in the next 10 years. And that problem solving can't say enough about the problem solving. What is what is one lesson that you've learned over your career that every every educator should hear? If you and you've shared so many lessons, so many lessons that you have you've shared already. But if there's one thing that you feel that every educator should hear, that you have learned in your career, what would you say that would be?

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Be accountable. Just be accountable. No, if you make a mistake, just be accountable and say, Oh, I was wrong. And learn from it. I think a lot of times it's like, I don't know, it's like we we fake it until we make it when you first start teaching, like we really don't know. And we expect like it's like we evaluate brand new teachers just like they've been teaching for 20 years. It's the exact same evaluation system, and that is a scary thing. And as the leader, sometimes we have to sit back and you know, hey, they just they haven't learned that yet, they're struggling with classroom management. So, like, how can you support that? But when a teacher is accountable, they're usually a lot more honest, like, you know, yeah, I did not teach that right. I need some help on this, you know. I I just think just being honest, transparent, and and accountable, like, don't be afraid to be vulnerable because there is so much support and education, and we don't have to know everything on the very first day of teaching.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Very, very good advice. I would tell my students, because I was there were times in which I was teaching the advanced students who chose not to do advanced government econ because they had advanced everything else. And one of one student that he actually lives lives in the same city with me, and um we have actually had an opportunity to talk. I've seen his his spouse and his his child. And he said that he I was one of his um favorite teachers, and that he was always learning in that class, even though it wasn't the advanced placement because he he just had too much and he didn't want another one. He was in my CP class that was college prep at the time. And what I told him was, you kept me challenged because I had to be 10 steps ahead of him in order to make sure I was prepared for all the questions he was going to fire back at me. But if there was something I didn't know, I would tell them, class, you know, I don't know it all, but I will let you know when you come back tomorrow, I will have an answer for you. And most of the time I did. If I needed a little bit more time, I let the students know. I don't have that information right now, but I'll get back to you. So I think that that is definitely wise information and being accountable and just just knowing that you're not gonna get it right on the first day, you're not gonna get it right on the second day, and you're not gonna get it right the 10th year in your in your career and so forth and so on. So I agree with you there. And then what keeps you motivated? What keeps you motivated after so many years of being in education? What is it that keeps you motivated?

SPEAKER_00 51:47

What keeps me motivated? Wow, that's yeah and anyone that's been in education as long as we have that we know the gas tank runs out of gas. And we need to we need to get a little bit bit of uh self-motivation. I I would say probably the biggest thing is knowing that if you set your mind and you push through the follow-through, that almost every time when the follow-through happens, greatness happens. And just remember like success is addicting, and once you have it, it it motivates you. Like you don't want to lower your expectations, you know. I mean, to do it with one class is like, okay, I can do it with another class, you know. And so to me, is just you know, know that success is worth it, and the only way we could get to success is we need to fall through and not give up. And if you think about it, I mean, these students have great value. And sometimes you're the only one that's giving them that value. And it's the same thing with teachers. I I've seen some teachers that have been beat up pretty bad, and being that one person that that believes in them, I just think it makes the difference. So I guess to me, it's just believe that everyone can learn and just let that motivate you. Yeah, I make mistakes all the time. I am not perfect, and I wish I could take some things I've said back, and you know, sometimes, you know, you're you're on this spectrum of trying to stay humble, but at the same time being confident, and you know, we're in a world that's very competitive, if I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Very much so. But being successful, just keeping that success in the forefront, that that is definitely a driving force, and knowing that, you know, if you can reach one student, you can reach 10, you can reach 100. And that and that is definitely a motivating factor, and knowing that success is gonna happen, and and and it starts with us. Starts with us. So lightning round. All right. So what choose one of the two, okay? One book. Well, this is this is more of a give me one book every educator should read. Off the top of your head. One book every educator should read.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Atomic habits.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Okay, atomic habits, all right? Coffee or tea.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Coffee or drink.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Yes. Coffee drinking. Are you a morning person or a night owl?

SPEAKER_00 54:55

I would say I'm morning a night owl.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Okay. And then the best advice you've ever received.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Listen.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Listen. Was that from your wife?

SPEAKER_00 55:12

No, that was from Dr. Silent. Okay. I just asked him the question like, what's the best advice you could give me as a leader? And he said, listen. Yeah. And I authentically listen. Like they know you're actually listening. Because when you talk to someone, they know if you're listening or not. And let's just be honest, we can read those nonverbals. It's like you'll say something, and their response will like be nothing about what you just said. So it's like, okay, just listen. And and and there's a lot of value in it because throughout the years, a lot of teachers, I mean, probably hundreds, have said, you know what? I appreciate that you actually listen.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

They need that. They definitely need that. So I'm going to ask you this while we are still recording, because there are so many more questions I want to ask you. But would you agree to come back for a part two?

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Most definitely. I would love to.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

So I want to continue the conversation because there's so many other things that I want to ask you. And so we will get together for a part two. And thank you for agreeing to come on today. And I look forward to the part two. And you give us hope. You give our audience hope for educators in what you share today. You show your passion, your heart, and that you know what helps educators to be the best. And it starts with believing in yourself, as you said, that confidence level. So I appreciate you sharing all your words of wisdom. And I know that those that are listening, that this is going to impact them and the work that they do in their classroom. So thank you again, Don, for coming on this afternoon. I so appreciate it. And thank you for coming, agreeing to come back for part two.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

I am honored. Thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

So before we end today, I like to leave you with a challenge this week. I want you to think about your practices in the classroom. Think about what you're doing. Think about how you're going to reach your students. Some of you have started your new year, some of you are on your way to beginning your new year with a new group. Think about how you're going to impact those students this year. Think about your attitude. And if is there something that you want to change or make adjustments so that you can be able to capture the engagement level from a student who may be struggling or someone who is shy. How are you going to adjust in order to make sure that student feels welcome in your classroom? So think about how you're going to build those relationships. And if there's anything within you that you may want to make sure that you correct or check. Because sometimes our students come in with so many things that they're burdened down with. And they only need that person who will be that authentic listener that will hear them out. And once they are heard, they're able to learn. So think about that as you're getting ready for your new year. Thank you for joining me for another episode of The Road to an Effective Classroom Environment. If today's conversation encourages you, please subscribe, leave a review, share this episode with another educational leader, teacher who is looking for ways to support others without adding more to the workload. You can connect with me through Lee Jane's Consulting LLC, where I work with schools and organizations to build positive cultures, strengthen leadership, and create sustainable systems that help educators thrive. Thank you once again, and I'll see you next time.