From professional opera singing to a career in coaching: Elena Armijo discusses her career and DEI initiatives

Elena Armijo joins Work in Fintech to discuss her career, DEI initiatives and sense of belonging within organisations.

Elena has been in coaching for 8 years now. Previously, she was a professional opera singer and she has recently launched a new platform called C-Suite Collective which encourages DEI initiatives and helps companies create culture from the inside out.

Hear Elena's thoughts on:
- The value of diversity and inclusion
- The C-Suite Collective platform
- Are DEI initiatives worth it?
- Challenges in implementing DEI initiatives 
- Best practices within DEI
- What is your definition of belonging
- Future of C-Suite Collective

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Transcript

Ying: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Work in FinTech podcast. My name is Ying Cao. I'm a co-founder at Work in FinTech and today I'm so delighted to welcome Elena, to join us and share her experience for the DEI initiative in the workplace. Hi Elena. 

Elena: Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be with you! 

Ying: Yeah and thank you so much for joining us! And for the benefit of our audience could you give us a quick intro of your background and what really brings you in this leadership arena and talk about the DEI initiatives?

Elena: Yeah, well, let's see my background is in executive and leadership development and coaching, and I've been a coach now for eight years and before that I was a professional opera singer. So, I always like to say that because I created a big pivot myself and I also was able to create a creative background into places that I go into now.

Ying: That is really amazing. And when I hear your story about pivoting your career from an opera singer to a professional coach, it really resonates because even though we're doing everything in the world of FinTech as you probably have heard with crypto and NFTs, it has actually started really connecting to the world of creative music in particular. So, before we get into DEI, can you actually share a little bit of your experience, pivoting your career from a professional opera singer to what you are doing now.

Elena: Yeah, well, I think the thing that I love the most about my story is I come from a background where I am a biracial woman. So, I grew up in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and my father is Peruvian and Spanish and my mom is French, German, and Irish. So, I'm a big combination of those two cultures and what I love about it is that I grew up in the middle a lot. 

And so, I had to really look at how I constructed my first career from proving or wanting to basically prove to my parents and my culture that I was good enough or that I was successful. And so, I built a lot of the opera career that way and when I got to the places that I was going, you know, after singing in like Lincoln Center and Carnegie Hall and doing all the big things I realized I wasn't happy.

And so, I really had to take a moment to look at where was my life going and what I wanted to create next. And that's when I, myself worked with a coach and realized that I actually love music just for music I never wanted it to be a business. And through that work, I fell in love with coaching and that's what got me here today.

Ying: Oh my God, that's awesome! And that sounds really familiar, because I worked on wall street for 15 years and I mean, I love what I do, but part of it comes from proving, to my culture, to my parents, to people around me that I can do this. Or that this is something that is prestigious or something that seems to be successful and up to a point that you realize what you really enjoy versus what is the part that really driven by performance. So, thank you so much for sharing that. 

Elena: Yeah. 

Ying: And then being a coach for more than eight years, right? I know you have worked with so many organizations from leadership development, but also with a special focus in diversity inclusions. And coming from the cultural background that you just shared and having gone through your personal journey, finding your voice, and finding your passion, creating your dream career, right? Kind of pivoting your career, even in the middle of all that, what do you think is the value of diversity and inclusion, like why should companies care about that rather than it just being a noble or nice word to talk about? 

Elena: Yeah. It's a really great question right now, because I think what humans are craving and what we've been seeing after the pandemic, especially in the last two years, is connection and belonging. And that is what to me, diversity and inclusion is all about, is having everyone that comes to your space, if they choose to be in your space, belong. And then how can you create a culture that supports that environment? 

And to answer your question directly, the reason I think that's important is because that's what creates legacy or longevity in a company; is having people that are loyal to you and your value system, because it aligns with their own value system. And I think oftentimes in the past, we've aligned ROI or profit, over human connection. And we've seen what that's caused. In some realms people have gotten very successful and created a lot of money but people have been left behind.

And so that missing piece of human connection, what's possible if you have both ROI and profit and connection, and that has been something that in the last two years, I think people are really taking a look at. 

Ying: Gotcha. Gotcha. I think what really resonated from what you shared is what if you have both, because its seems like you either really care about your team, in which case the performance suffers or you care so much about the performance that people become numbers, right? And then there is no such feeling of my company really cares about me as a human being. 

So, from that lens, based on the work that you have been doing, and I know you have launched a new initiative or project, which we'd love to hear more about. What did you notice that has worked or do you have any success story? Or something that worked to really kind of paint the picture of what good looks like?

Elena: Yeah, well, as you mentioned, I launched the C-suite collective, which is a new platform, that we launched in November of 2021. And this platform exists to basically go into companies and create culture from the inside out. So, the whole mission and values approach of the company is around helping companies create that culture that we're talking about right now. 

So, the success stories have been the people that are really willing to sign on for a whole year and work with us to have support structures in place that are more than they think is necessary. So, we were piloting a couple of programs before we launched, and this is the data that we learned before we launched in November so we're bringing it forward to the world. But basically, what that means is we're looking for people that maybe had one DEI training and nothing changed, or they have a chief diversity officer on their company payroll, but nothing is changing. And so, we really looked at that for a whole year and said, well, what's the data saying? And why are they not actually shifting their cultures? And what we found is that people were unwilling to be in the conversation long-term and see results over the period of a whole year. They want change right now. So, you've got these people that are like, well, I did that diversity training and I think that that should have fixed the whole problem.

And instead, we have now seen companies where basically all of their senior leadership hire coaches, private coaches, they bring in four to six trainings a year that continually build on each other around the conversation of inclusion and belonging, and then we have healing modalities that actually support the structures of healing in a conversation around race or social justice or inclusion or people that have been marginalized.

And that's the piece that I think a lot of people have been resisting. And so, we also bring in those kinds of practitioners to help throughout the year. And what we're seeing is that you can actually track the data of a culture changing through assessments and people are more invested than when they've started.

Ying: Thanks so much for sharing that, I really like your approach to leverage data, to measure the progress, right? So, there is not much room left for interpretation, whether it works or not because the data can really tell the story consistently over a period of time. 

And I think also, something that really stood out from what you shared is the longevity; it's like there are firms that are actually willing to put in not only money, but a lot of effort to work on this longer term. So, it seems like changing the culture or cultivating the culture is not a quick fix. You actually have to have some dedication that will really achieve the results.

So, it comes back to the results, right? From your experience or what you have been seeing, do you think it's worth it for the firms, to put in a lot of effort doing it longer term? I wouldn't say just from ROI or monetary terms, but from the overall investment? In terms of investing in their people or investing in their culture and bringing the DEI angle into their workforce.

Elena: Well, I think it does work, but I also think it depends on what your goals are as a company. It goes back to your own values as a company. If you are only interested in one thing, aka, making more money or scaling your company quickly, something of that nature, then you've got to have a conversation of who will you be during those moments where you're actually trying to grow.

And if you can create a place where you're coming together and having both just like we said, inclusion and belonging and growth at the same time, those are the companies that I see being the most successful at this. And what does success even mean? Well, it means the people who are not committed to being in a conversation that's culturally inclusive leave and the ones that are committed to that stay and grow and develop.

And so over two years, that's actually what you end up seeing, is you have a culture now that is creating a legacy of people being served and creating results at the same time. So yeah, I think it really does work, but I think that there has to be an honest conversation about if you're committed to it. 

Ying: Gotcha. Yeah, that completely makes sense. And then we talked about challenges, right? I'm sure, you know any transformational work or leadership work, it's I wouldn't say hard, but it definitely takes time and effort. It takes a lot of heart and soul rather than just time and money. So, from your experience, what do you think are the challenges that practitioners or transformers or innovators still face in addressing or embracing DEI initiatives and creating a belonging culture at work. 

Elena: I think the number one challenge right now is people are trying to get it right. And so, when I come into a conversation with a leader, the first thing I'll say is, hey, let's just make an agreement right now that this is going to be messy. It's not going to be fun. And you're not going to get it right. There's going to be a lot of times where you're going to have to own and be responsible for your own blind spots and what's going on. And if we set the foundation that way, I think we have a high potential for letting go of getting this perfect or right, which is the number one thing in the way, the number one barrier that's in the way to even starting these conversations. 

Ying: And that's a really mind opening comment. I think what’s getting in the way is people's desire to get it right. Because even coming from the entrepreneurial world as a startup, as you're building your company and building your product, if you want it to get it right you will be handicapped and you're probably not likely to get it working. So that's a really interesting perspective, even when companies are looking at some of these DEI or transformative initiatives, their desire and want to even get it right in the first place may get in the way for them to really open it up and look at what's under the hood.

Elena: Yes. 

Ying: Is there anything else that you wanted to point out? 

Elena: I think another challenge is again, the quick fix, we've kind of already talked about this, but bringing in one training and expecting it to change overnight or expecting that the amount of money you've invested is enough, so that is also another stop for most people. Where they should perhaps be taking a look at, if I was willing to invest in this over the next 10 years what would my budget line look like for inclusivity and belonging and really expanding what the conversation of support looks like? 

And that even goes into when you're hiring diverse talent and you're getting in new people that maybe the company hasn't ever worked with before, do they have support to succeed? So, some people that are in these C-suite roles for the first time, that were maybe interviewed, and they were brought on for diversity, but also for their skills might need a different level of support. And what I mean by that is maybe they need a BIPOC coach or maybe they need a coach that's also been marginalized so that they can talk about some things that they're working through as leaders in the world, especially in a world that's trying to raise the bar of inclusion.

Ying: Mhm, definitely. And I think, at work in FinTech we work with corporations in the FinTech industry to solve a lot of these, we wouldn't call it issues, but we wanted to call it big problems. And one thing we noticed is FinTech, it’s an industry that really grows exponentially, it grows really, really fast. And there's a lot of money and capital involved, but at a core, I think people that choose to do FinTech, usually come from the background or have a want to change the world or make the world a better place. So, you notice there is a lot of carrying or there is a lot of emphasizing in how can we change the industry for better? Maybe we have an opportunity to start something from scratch so, we can really level the playing field and to tackle the DEI issue, even in the very beginning, as it starts. 

So, what I'm personally very, um, motivated about is every single time I talk to leaders, founders, and CEOs in this space almost everyone is really starting to pay attention to DEI. So even in our own teams, we started to really bring people from different backgrounds and stuff. 

So, based on your experience and also what you have seen, what are some of the best practices you would suggest a company to consider? Like it’s one thing to say I really care, and I want to do something about it versus I don't know where to start. So, what are some of the best practices you think leaders in the space who care about belonging and culture can really start to think about?

Elena: Yeah, that's a great question. I think the first place I would look is when you're interviewing, when you're looking for talent and you're bringing talent on. I would open and expand your questions, from an interview perspective to asking people that you're bringing on, what would you need to be successful? How can I support you as a leader to get what you need and really listening on an individualized approach? 

Because again, if we're working with lots of different types of people, people are going to need lots of different types of things. So instead of making it so standardized across the board for a conversation around what's fair or unfair, slowing way down and asking your people what they really need, because what you're assuming they need might be different than what they need.

So, I think that's the first place I would start. The second is exactly what we've already said. Create a plan, what is the long-term plan to get people and your culture served? And just like we look at three and five and ten years down the road, and we make goals based on quarters with businesses, same approach with your culture, how are you attending to it and how are you growing it? And what are the support structures you have in place? That is where I would start too.

Ying: Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. And you touched on recruiting, right? Which I think is even more important for Work in FinTech because one of our missions is to really bridge the talent gap in the fast-growing FinTech industry and I see a lot of people dive into this space for the monetary opportunities or for the work opportunities. But actually, because people believe in say crypto innovation technology, you see a lot of community-driven actions. People are actually very excited about the mission that the companies want to deliver or create.

So, from that perspective, I think one of the interesting things that even I noticed, because I served on a number of the boards for women and derivatives or some of the culture background for AAPI community. One thing I even wondered when I launched some of those initiatives is that by creating more focus in DEI, am I excluding men or am I excluding white people? Or the white audience? So, by focusing on inclusion am I my purposefully creating exclusion. So, what is your view on that? 

Elena: Yeah, I think we’ve got to watch out for that too. Because everything about inclusion and belonging means everyone, right? So, I think what why we're focusing on more diverse hires right now and leveling the playing field is traditionally, it hasn't been everyone. So, we're sort of trying to rebalance the system and also look at ways that the system is unjust and unfair, but that's a really fine line between then leaving white people out. And looking at the structures that we've created, where traditionally white Americans were the ones that, that had the upper hand.

So, I think leaders have to be really careful not to shame anybody, not to make anything wrong. And when you're looking at talent and diversity, if you know 90% of your company is already white and you're looking at the white candidate who is more qualified than the diverse candidate, there's a couple ways you can think about this.

Do I want to bring on a diverse candidate and again, get them a support to have them be part of this culture long-term so that we are then part of our mission and vision and our value system of creating a more even playing field? Or do I want to keep creating a system that's going to perpetuate more of the same? So, this is not meant to exclude white people in any way, shape or form or anybody that’s the majority of the company, but it's really meant to look at what do you want to create long-term? And that's the conversation that might spark some new ideas. 

Ying: Gotcha. Thank you so much for bringing back the long-term vision back into the equation. It seems like when you're truly clear on what the long-term or the future looks like, it's much easier for you even to think of shorter-term choices because either you're aligned to your future goals or not. 

And throughout the conversation, I think one word that you talked about multiple times is belonging. So, what is belonging, what is your definition of belonging? And then what is your future vision of a workplace that is full of belonging looks like?

Elena: Yeah, my working definition of belonging is anywhere that you are creating a shared space of community and being seen and being authentically supported in who you are.

So, belonging doesn't mean like I fit here, and everybody notices that I fit and makes me feel safe or warm or welcome. Although I do think we need to feel like we can say what we need to say and have a brave space. But remember brave spaces aren't always easy, brave spaces have uncomfortable conversations that are sometimes hard.

So, to me, belonging goes hand-in-hand with having a space where I can say what I need to say and also my personal value system aligns with the value system of the company. I think that's the number one place to start for belonging, because if your values don't align with the company you're working for, that automatically might make you feel like you don't belong. And it's not because one party is right or wrong it's simply just a misalignment of values. So, to me, that's what belonging in a workplace culture looks like. 

Ying: Gotcha. Thank you so much. And, what's coming next for your new company, for C-suite collective?

Elena: Oh my gosh, what's coming next is we have two exciting companies that are in conversations with starting this year long contract with us and really we're still in beta testing. So, we're using this year again as just collecting more data and really seeing what the results are, but so far, the results have been incredible. And our big, big vision, which I haven't really told anybody, so you're the first to know is that, by year 2023, we can actually turn around and gift a company this work. So, that we have got enough of our own start where we can turn around and be our word, which is getting access to people that typically don't have access to this kind of support. So that's our big long-term vision is, making enough ROI and capital ourselves so that we can turn around and give this work in the world to companies that may not have as much capital to access us

Ying: Aw, that's so great to hear and thank you so much for putting your heart and soul into this work, kind of constantly making changes in the workplace. 

Elena: Thank you.