Brad Levy, Symphony CEO, former CEO of IHSMarkit and ex-MD at Goldman, shares his thoughts on everything from the future of artificial intelligence to finding purpose and much, much more!
Brad began his career working at Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs before venturing into Fintech through a Partner role at IHS Markit, multiple Chairman roles at the likes of FINOS and now CEO of Symphony. Brad's role as a sector pioneer and thought leader within the space of finance and technology are testament to his drive, pursuit and openness for learning, a fantastic lesson for all ambitious individuals!
In this episode, Brad is joined by Work in Fintech co-founders Matthew Cheung and Ying Cao to explain the evolution of technology, investing in the future and what makes a successful professional.
Check out our website: https://workinfintech.com/ and subscribe to our mailing list to hear more about opportunities in fintech and web3
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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/work-in-fintech-global/
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdS4bYoCXaHVgfVm6syUrDw
Brad Levy, Symphony CEO, former CEO of IHSMarkit and ex-MD at Goldman, shares his thoughts on everything from the future of artificial intelligence to finding purpose and much, much more!
Brad began his career working at Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs before venturing into Fintech through a Partner role at IHS Markit, multiple Chairman roles at the likes of FINOS and now CEO of Symphony. Brad's role as a sector pioneer and thought leader within the space of finance and technology are testament to his drive, pursuit and openness for learning, a fantastic lesson for all ambitious individuals!
In this episode, Brad is joined by Work in Fintech co-founders Matthew Cheung and Ying Cao to explain the evolution of technology, investing in the future and what makes a successful professional.
Check out our website: https://workinfintech.com/ and subscribe to our mailing list to hear more about opportunities in fintech and web3
Follow our socials:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/work-in-fintech-global/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WorkinFintech
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdS4bYoCXaHVgfVm6syUrDw
[00:00:05] - Matthew Cheung
Hi this is Matt from Work in Fintech and it's a slightly different format than usual. Today's podcast will be hosted together with Work in Fintech co founder Ying Cao and we're interviewing none other than the great brad Levy and brad is a heavyweight in both financial markets and financial technology. So we're delighted that he's here to join us Brad Welcome to the Work in Fintech podcast.
[00:00:28] - Brad Levy
Thank you. Thank you for having me
[00:00:29] - Matthew Cheung
Brad you've had an esteemed career Goldman Sachs and now at Symphony, can you talk us through your journey to date?
[00:00:38] - Brad Levy
Sure, thanks so much for the opportunity. And it's been a journey for sure. And having gone to university without really a banker idea in mind. And I went to be basically an accountant to a state university and I stumbled into a research program that was around municipal bonds and that really got me to the street both as a, as an area of the market in banking and municipal public finance, but also at that time, 30 years ago, acquiring skill sets in Excel and data and analysis. So I sort of took on a accidental journey up front in university of doing research and acquiring skills that were a bit more technical. And then I just sort of stuck with that over time. I was able to join Lehman Brothers in the banking world, out of a state school in new york, which was not an easy path, not a direct path. And I stayed in banking for six years. I moved to the syndicate desk in the latter part of my uni specifically the 1st 10 years, which was the tail end of the nineties where I also picked up an e commerce role when e commerce was becoming an electronic trading, a more frequent topic in the equities and fixed income markets. Um I then moved on to a central role in Goldman Sachs leading e commerce initiatives, which then became more strategic and investing in market infrastructures and I liked it so much over time and was a part of the startup of many companies from Goldman Sachs perspective, then joined an operating company or a company on the market structure side. Fintech as an operator. I did that for eight or nine years, um really quite a bit of fun building and running and then moved on to my next operating role in the last year or two at Symphony and the collaboration space, which is even more exciting given the time we're in, career
[00:02:10] - Matthew Cheung
Would you zoom into that bit, you said at the beginning where you're looking at accountancy to start? We often have heard a lot of interviews with with other people on the podcast where there's never a straight journey from A to B. It's, there's there's a kind of a bit of a winding journey maybe at the start and then you find something that you're really interested and passionate about. Would you zoom into that bit, you said at the beginning, where you're looking at accountancy to start. We often have heard a lot of interviews with with other people on the podcast where there's never a straight journey from A to B. It's there's there's a kind of a bit of a winding journey maybe at the start and then you find something that you're really interested and passionate about.
[00:02:48] - Brad Levy
So it was, my father was in the finance area of the produce meat industry, and so he was more on the accounting side. So Yeah Yes.
[00:02:56] - Brad Levy
I thought I could be an accountant. Like my father, I went to State University of new york at Albany, Suny Albany, which was really the firm that the school that put out the most big six accounting CPA's in the U. S. at the time and it sounded like a good living for a long time. I then got into the program both accounting, finance and I just would like to finance more. It felt like more applied finance or applied math in, in uh looking at cash flows and bond pricing and it just felt a bit more scientific, I guess an accounting that had a bit more art. And then I got involved in a research program that really solidified my interest in the bond market. It just seemed like a mathematical area which was my gravitational pull anyway and applied world that they were both accountants and bankers. And to be honest, the accountants tend to work for the bankers. So I'd rather be the person driving finance that accountants can be, that the accounting of it after the fact felt a bit more rich and creative even I would say even early days for me,
[00:03:55] - Ying Cao
Gotcha. So Brad you mentioned about the word Fintech and then you moved from a traditional finance role in Goldman Sachs and now to Leading Symphony, which is considered as a Fintech company. And Fintech means so much different things for so many different people. So what does Fintech mean to you? And then, you also touched about the opportunities right coming from a content to in the finance side and what do you see in fintech that really attracts you to take on this opportunity?
[00:04:26] - Brad Levy
Well, I think the latter question what attracts me is technology is a massive driver of change in the world and in our industry, I prefer to be at the front end of change and driving it because it's both, less anxiety for me and those around me, but also it allows you to be innovative at the front. creates I would say that's more today, what's going on with technology. But back in the day, 30 years ago and for where I just attached myself to leveraging technology more and I would say I never, I was in traditional finance leveraging technology, I then moved out of the line jobs of finance, but always looked back to technology. So technology has been a common denominator for me and my whole career I And fortunately there may be some good planning, it's become much more much more relevant, much more real and even a business itself. So 20 years ago was an enabler. 10 years ago, people started to talk about it as the front office and I would say now it's both the front office the enabler, but more just a part of the fabric of everything. it um So I think the journey of traditional to technology, technology, e-commerce and back around is more of a circle and a cycle then a linear progression over time the And it sets me apart from other people that are maybe a little more fearful of tech, the complexity of it and what it might do to their own jobs of their own businesses bit
[00:05:44] - Matthew Cheung
when you're at Goldman one of your roles was in principle strategic investments and it was one of the leading units on Wall Street and you did invest in many fintech firms at the time and spin them off as separate entities. What made you go down that route when you were still on the investment banking side before you kind of made that leap a
[00:06:04] - Brad Levy
Well back in the 02-05 time frame,. We actually created the concept, we branded the team, we built it out as not just any commerce function and a strategic function but a real investment function that would be investing in the future of our industry obviously from Goldman Sachs perspective, so it was principal, it was us on balance sheet, us investing in ourselves.
[00:06:28] - Brad Levy
It was strategic. It was more, I would say long range planning, I would say, than doing a trade. It was an investment versus. A trade. Um,
[00:06:36] - Brad Levy
Um, so it was a strategic investment that was on balance sheet. And if we never took advantage of the companies that we created, it would have been a waste. We would have just been a P. E. Private equity firm, but we were principle first on balance sheet. Strategic second and taking a long range view of market structure and how it would evolve with technology being a big catalyst. So in a again, it was, it was created by me and a few others, a few others in the industry picked it up as a moniker, even PSI became a brand across the street and it was just a fuller view of technology and electronic trading. And it allowed us to go into operations areas to front office areas to look more broadly. Markets don't have to be electronified to take advantage of technology. a They could be digitalized, which is now a big trend. But even back then, that's the way we were thinking. You don't have to automate and put robots on everything to create a more efficient, safer market. In fact, it's probably better as humans, if we find ways to create leverage for people versus always looking for technology to wipe them out of their seats
[00:07:36] - Ying Cao
and then as an investor part of the fine job is you get to meet so many startup founders or entrepreneurs I And then
[00:07:44] - Brad Levy
what are your
[00:07:46] - Ying Cao
principles in terms of making decisions to who to invest and then what are some of the things you're looking for from successful entrepreneurs? are
[00:07:55] - Brad Levy
Yeah, I think for us at symphony today, it comes down to working with people that are solving industry problems and finding good partners to do that with. So number one, it starts with a problem that you could define then you create numbers of capabilities that may create a solution that has value to solving that problem. the So I think it's number one the problem number two, the people on it. And then is the combination of us alone with a few or us as a bunch working together, going to really create an outcome of solving a problem that we can see today, but maybe as important solving the future problems that are just emerging as we evolve into a more digital connected world. So I've heard the term tam to tap you know,
[00:08:39] - Brad Levy
where a lot of people try to look at total addressable market as a defined thing and then take their share of the pie where if you think about total addressable problems, you actually think about a pie that doesn't exist or grow up And then even more importantly, how do you solve the derivative problems that come from the solutions that you just created or things that just haven't happened yet in time. So I think of tam first but then tap long term and trying to again skate to where that puck is going with people in the industry that can take a 3,5 10 year view which is unfortunately not a lot a lot of people are just not paid to take a long view which is fine and we have to balance short term execution and long term risk taking. So I think it's that problem solving with people that can solve problems and are trusted to do. It sounds obvious and cliche but it kind of comes down to like basic human humans working with humans solving problems and I just look for that one to see it. I care a lot about valuation but it's a lot easier to get comfortable with value when you value the people and you think they're solving a real problem.
[00:09:44] - Ying Cao
And that's a really interesting point because you touched the both side of the digital future which is very connected by technology and digital tools and then on the other hand at the core of it is human interactions and relationships.
[00:09:59] - Ying Cao
So as you are taking symphony to. The next chapter in its full manifestation. What is your vision for the digital future and how human plays a role in that digital future?
[00:10:12] - Brad Levy
Yeah, I think we're all feeling overwhelmed in life. I think we're all and I think technology um and data is part of that and the combinations of technology and data, it all sounds like tools that we could use to be better and have a more productive life. But there's a real dark side to what's kind of happening or just an overwhelming nature. And I really want to try to flip the script to, where we really believe these are tools that we can leverage while always knowing there's a potential downside or risk to creating a more automated world, you know, that things can get away from you more quickly without even knowing it. So I think it's that how do you give people the sense and the trust that they can use this technology for their own good, for their institutions, good. And maybe even for people on the planet, I I don't fundamentally believe that people are trying to do good things all day for others. I hope that's the case. But I think it's often not and it's not because they're bad, it just doesn't occur to them and they can't see the consequences of their actions down the road of a tweet or a platform that's created that gets used for purposes that they didn't envision. So I think it's giving people the that in the excitement to get in this space and understand it versus the anxiety that they're missing something. And I like to talk joji, the joy of joining in versus fomo fear of missing out. And It's been around maybe a little bit but it's more fun to sell the joy of a future that you can participate in shaping. Uh And again, that's back to my sort of Goldman PSI Then letting the world happened to you and complaining, whether it doesn't quite go your way, and again, humans like when they exert some control over something, even the bigness of technology that's kind of swirling around them every day and their Children seem to be able to game them in,
[00:11:57] - Matthew Cheung
with symphony itself. Let's let's kind of move on to the company, you're now at the helm at, can you talk to our listeners about exactly what symphony does, and what problem that you're solving the are
[00:12:10] - Brad Levy
Yes, I think the the interesting thing about symphony is it's uh you recommended the art of the impossible. Like impossible is sometimes a tricky word where it's not that it's impossible, just is hard or hasn't been done. it and we get that. So we're sort of doing something that hasn't been done before, which is trying to give every user in the industry a real tailored experience that's for them, but is a common platform for all. it And while we are trying to lock down everything and make it incredibly secure, we're not trying to create a gated community that you can't get in unless we allow. were to Right. So it's a there's a lot of platforms in the market that require, what I call the attention economy, where you have to be sort of in it and on it and looking at it to really use it. um,
[00:12:56] - Brad Levy
Um and there's there's hundreds and hundreds of those boxes in the industry. I don't think the industry needs another box to go to to see something right there and symphony has that capability of a ui user interface. But our intent is not to have people locked into that. a So I think that the fact that we're not that thing that people may think we are is a little confusing. We're not a destination as much of a platform below you and above you that could be invoked or push you in a good way to where you need to go. can
[00:13:23] - Brad Levy
And On the other end of it we're in the space of collaboration technology which wasn't understood in 2019. And then with the pandemic has sort of exploded onto the, onto the field with zoom and slack and teams and blue jeans and google and what's happened as many places that you could voice video and chat in different versions that are either more for corporate or more for people. you know, in So there's a huge number of platforms out there. Um symphonies in that space is a capability but our purpose is to be very open and locked down for the financial services community and I don't call us a Fintech, I call us a tech for fin because we are tech lead and finance focused and we're pretty broad as an offering of capabilities. Fin techs,, I feel tend to be a bit more narrow, not in a bad way, a narrow in purpose and deeper and maybe solving for the last mile down to the user where we may be just getting the user to their platform to solve a very specific point problem in the bond market, the equity market for the operations user at a bank or a buy side client. So again, we're not a box. We're not a generic collaboration platform where some way of working in the middle. or new That requires you to maybe not even care that you don't see us or be in our frame all day or a bit of both. So I think it's just a new way of working that is hard to show until you can display it to someone and they see how it's used. We couldn't have imagined watching a subtitled korean show 10 years ago that would take over the world like in a minute and now it's on everybody's device and everybody's talking about it across all ages, cultures and geography ease our world will work that way just in a more institutionalized way because what finances is highly complex and needs compliance but can have that open feel while being very safe and locked down in the front to back experience. a So it's uh yeah, it's, it's hard to explain and it's a little bit different than a large tech company or a Fintech. We're sort of in the middle of those large tech players Microsoft, google zoom, salesforce slack and the fintech solutions, you know that people may go to work for that are, you know, 40 people start up solving a a data problem in the industry around the credit markets.
[00:15:47] - Matthew Cheung
And what do you foresee the evolution of chatbots?? Because symphony was at the forefront of that and was Microsoft and slack and other chat platforms out there have been late to the party and I think it's a real USP with what the openness that symphony provides and what allows companies like I push pull to build things on top of How do you see the chat on the workflow piece involving using box collaboration platforms like Symphony? a
[00:16:17] - Brad Levy
Yeah, so bots are a great example and assume bots are somewhat more free and can roam around on multiple platforms. So like I said, we don't want people to feel locked in the symphony, but we also believe we have some of the,
[00:16:29] - Brad Levy
a lot of knowledge about problems in the industry and how to solve them specifically. And then we're to partner with ipushpull so we know that at the end of the day if someone builds a pot and it needs to roam away from the Symphony platform and onto some other system, like a Microsoft teams or slack, That's what we're promoting. But a lot of the bots will be birthed and bread and sort of a uh you know, cohabitate where they're more natural about animals that they can play with. But then over time you know, they may come and go a bit from our platform specifically. We may incorporate more general bots that run around the world on other, more collaboration for the world platforms that we can then take into our, you know, our fields and barnyard, et cetera. Taking the bot analogy a little far. But yards I think when you start to think about these things is more free roaming but always secured down by identity and the systems that they are allowed to access as bots,. So you still need that entitlements layer. But the bots themselves should be much more free and people that build them should be leveraging them across multiple platforms, including Symphony.
[00:17:34] - Ying Cao
And it seems like the word collaboration is one of the core theme as what you described for symphonies, vision and what you envision right for the industry to come and being a collaborative technology itself and for the benefit of our audience. You also are the ex chairman of Finos which is open source Foundation that originally called Symphony Foundation. were was And speaking of thought and development and collaboration in the industry, what do you see uh in terms of the trend of open source um and open collaboration across multiple entities and big small firms, which doesn't seem to be the case for financial services originally, which is more closed play for many
[00:18:22] - Brad Levy
Yeah, I'll come at that from a few different angles.. So at Lehman Brothers and Goldman at Markit and now Symphony, I've always worked in hyper collaborative corporate sites.
[00:18:31] - Brad Levy
Maybe not the most every day and not everybody is the perfect collaborator but generally a collaborative organizations that believe working together, we're going to get further than we could apart... Um, I also believe as young people coming into industry curiosity, hard work and teamwork are the three elements of success over time. And that teamwork part is the secret sauce because if you're just curious and work hard, you're just not gonna maximize if you don't do teamwork. to Fortunately now I've landed in different systems like Symphony that foster collaboration physically and then Finos which is an open source foundation that needed to untether itself from symphony. So there could be more open. We even went so far as rebranding and now it's part of the Linux foundation, but I it's just another place where we can all get together, talk about common problems, solve them jointly and then go off and compete where we all should be competing. So whether it's cooperative, in open source world Coop. It by way of coming together under industry initiatives like symphony or just working together more as humans to solve common world problems and not thinking any of us could do it alone, but together we can do a lot more, there's obviously a theme for me in my career and the firm's, I've been in and even promoting that on the technical side through symphony as a platform and uh, you know, Finos is an open source foundation. Again, as a tech for Finn, Linux is a very big foundation and inside of Linux now is a very targeted tech for Finn open source effort that is solving for our workflows across applications, financial objects that could be cleanly defined across multiple applications, you know, players, players like matt and I can make sure that we're not building things we shouldn't and common clients combined themselves on open source with us but not be locked in to my earlier points unlock in
[00:20:18] - Matthew Cheung
And how do you see, I guess with different hats on with different from the different stages in your career, that whole kind of buy versus build and collaborating versus competing with big banks versus fintech or tech fins. How do you see that evolving and has evolved in the last say three years and techs and having the building blocks of something like interoperability and fitness and things can communicate and talk to each other from a tech stack perspective. Do you see that spilling over now so the financial institutions can start doing this best of breed, you know, Mcdonald's menu type thing where you can select what you want. of
[00:20:57] - Brad Levy
Yeah, I think we're at the point where we have no choice but to be doing less alone and more together, it's just wildly inefficient to be replicating and confusing by all of this proprietary behavior will still pick our spots to be very proprietary and I just believe that these are cycles over time, right? At one point it's highly complex and you could win by doing it yourself. Then over time you go through a commoditization and as it gets commoditized, people figure out how to release themselves from those commoditized things and move on to the next level of complexity. And I've stopped believing that humans will just stop and then automate everything that as we complex if I we will commoditize and as we commoditize, we will complexity and there's always going to be an active role for humans to bring things together and take risk. So I just believe stay in front of that wave leverage, open source for certain things that make sense and every five years is probably another wave of commoditization and sometimes it hits a bigger generational wave of people coming in. That's a, I'm just not gonna do it this way because I grew up as a digital native and I think the cycle of acceleration will happen in the next five years because of a generational move with millennials and gen Z is actually driving priorities versus working for people that are maybe trying to hang on to their old ways a bit too long. to
[00:22:18] - Matthew Cheung
What I'm talking about kind of different cycles that we're seeing gen Z's coming into the workplace, you mentioned earlier how teamwork is actually, you know, the secret to success alongside passion and curiosity and hard work in regards to mindset. You know, we've probably bonded somewhat on the, on a shared love of books on mindset and exponential technology and Eastern and Western philosophy and so on and ying actually left her Wall street job and started in coaching, we're obviously big on mindset, how has mindset impacted your way of running a company today and also how you invest and look at companies both from a corporate, also on a personal level as well.
[00:23:03] - Brad Levy
I think number one, we're all being watched more and we all have to be more mindful and truly authentic and empathetic. So I just believe in that trend and I think there are very big cycles that are out there and we're in them and we're creating new cycles ourselves. So, understanding that, but I just, I just don't believe I can impact a lot of that. I have to somehow get people to attach to me the vision without being sold to meaning I can't sell it, they just have to see it. So I think that, you know, investing in junior talent, like not just saying it, investing in diversity because it creates more balance in your organization and more sustainability. Again, these are really good business principles that are just coming around to reality. Um, I think the next generation coming in is probably gonna be a little too impatient, the generation sticking around is probably gonna try to hang on to things too long and you know, we've talked a lot about Eastern Western and yin and yang and the three of us have riffed on that personally together and individually with others. Um how do you balance the people coming in and wanting fast and new with the fact that there is some complexity you have to deal with and I love this new generation coming in, but they're probably gonna have to be a little more investment patient versus crypto flippers. Um, and that's just maybe you gotta grow up a bit and you know, have some families and responsibilities and require our house and be less influencer running around the world, which is more just a time you live in your life. So I think that balance uh in life and as an organization is the critical part, but you can't try to create, you know, you can't do, let's stay, still things are moving forward. So how do you create balance with a forward tilt to the future knowing you always need to take some risk and believe you're probably going away soon as a person and as a junior person, you're not as smart as you think, but you're really, you're still the future
[00:24:58] - Ying Cao
and that's such a good segway because as you know, many of our audience, are students or young professionals that are just open their eyes for the opportunities of in tech and what advice would you give people that, who just started their career and was looking at all these overwhelmingly opportunities and still deciding what they wanted to do and then what they wanted to focus and start to grow their career.
[00:25:24] - Brad Levy
I think you don't want to think you're making a life decision at 22, you're not. but you also don't want to think you can just bop around for 10 years without direction and it will amount to something at the end of that 1st 10 years, you know, A career is 10 years of many careers, five is career a job is three And you need to assemble a career. It doesn't mean you have to pin yourself to affirm for 10 years, but you have to have a mindset of growth,
[00:25:50] - Brad Levy
how to know who you are truly And then connect those things in the story where if you landed in 10 years, it looked like you had a plan, even though it was a bit agile and dynamic in terms of how it played out and that I can look back and see like 10 year things that overlapped and actually there's a good story, but I could tell you, I didn't write it 25 years ago, it just unfolded something. Sometimes I went with the flow. Sometimes I fought and learned other times, it was probably the right answer was somewhere in the middle of go with the flow and fight and I think that, but you can't try to know everything and you can't try to believe you're picking your career as much as building the skills and the relationships to decide what you really want to do in the long term. And you're probably, if you're good at your career, you're always going to, you'll die thinking I'm not done yet. Like yoga,
[00:26:46] - Brad Levy
definitely. Always practicing, never done,
[00:26:51] - Ying Cao
always practicing. And I think to have this, whatever you alluded to is to have this longer vision in mind will be flexible and agile in terms of adapting to opportunities is really valuable.
[00:27:05] - Brad Levy
Well, I have a method that I built for this and I create methods as you know. So I did. I created something for myself seven years ago called 10 3,1,90 and it's 10 year objective three year vision, one year plan, 90 day cycles and to experience, I try to focus in on the three-year vision and 90 day cycles. So I'm always going longer than most are just tangible.
[00:27:29] - Ying Cao
But I'm running in cycles that are measurable, which tend to be about 90 days and that's the rhythm of the seasons and quarters. So it's always a good day to mark to market And also you also touched on some of the more senior experienced folks, right, who tend to hang on things for too long I and at symphony is growing and creating a lot of not only market opportunities but job opportunities for the industry. And we see a trend that people started really wanted to explore what is life like create to work for a tech, Fin Fin tech or new companies compared to a traditional job in the investment bank. So what advice would you give to those who are pivoting their career uh in the middle of it, right. Who had 10, 15 years of experience, but really looking at the next opportunities.
[00:28:19] - Brad Levy
Look at the world today, number one Put yourself in it and do an honest assessment of your last 15 years and there's always a lot of good that you can take from that. And I know you know that as a coach, like there's always something you can take and roll forward if you try hard enough And then try to project out three years,
[00:28:37] - Brad Levy
put yourself in that and then sell somebody on your value to get them there more quickly than they could without you.
[00:28:44] - Brad Levy
So it's a process of today. Look back, don't dwell on it. If you feel like you just haven't made the pivot in time, you're going to be depressed by looking back as opposed to more wise about who you are today. And then everybody's a lot more people are confused about the future along with you. So just try to project out in a tangible, not 10 years, but something that's a bit of a stretch and then just talk about you and your skill set and your ability to maybe evolve based on what your real basis today, which is real, your relationships, your skills, your knowledge and if you're new in the industry then you're trying to sell the fact that you haven't done a lot and if you're older you're trying to sell that you can learn a new trick as an older dog and it comes down the lists like my strengths, my weaknesses of you on the world today and where it may be going and that's none of those are easy things predicting the future honest self assessments,
[00:29:41] - Matthew Cheung
spinning it into a story that sounds like a perfectionist is not your greatest weakness which is ridiculous talking about the future. People always say you can kind of underestimate what you will, you'll be on and what the world's gonna be like in 10 years time, you always overestimate what it's going to be like in a few years time and I've seen something written where you've previously said the 20 twenty's are gonna be big dynamic disruptive and an inflection point for us all, it's time to rise up, lean forward and run with purpose, passion and empathy. I know you you enjoy learning and seeing things grow like quantum computing and Blockchain and ai and these very cool exponential technologies out there. Is there anything that you think young people now should be looking at this that's kind of on the horizon and things that get you excited, which other people might not know about.
[00:30:37] - Brad Levy
I think it comes back to the it's a lot about, it's a lot about data and utilization of data and I think the older generations talk about the power of it, but don't know how to harness it. The younger generations are harnessing it without knowing it as much and we're all probably taking too much risk in our own personal lives exposing who we are and that doesn't work as well in industries like financial services, we have to be more lockdown. So I think it's all about data, it's all about defining what everybody should have, what some people should have and what nobody should have.
[00:31:14] - Brad Levy
And I think the older generations are gonna struggle how to how to do that with the tools and the younger people are going to be too loose and too matter of fact because it's just their digital native and I really believe it's up to the next generation to both teach the digital immigrants the way which I am one of while tightening up their own view of how they protect themselves their lives and their families and it's that balancing act and I think in the next few years and we're starting to see in government and how people are perceiving social networking, you know, in the good and the bad, like there's a real learning in here and I think we're gonna learn a lot more in the next few years and I think the smart people will figure out how to make this less of it could be good or bad for us to, it's going to be good with an exception that we may have just missed some bad things that we just didn't figure it all out soon enough.
[00:32:06] - Brad Levy
And I really think it's about data, it's about not fearing a by taking their jobs, but knowing its power that if we can take control of it or understand it more, We'll just be better off. And I think that 2025 is the inflection point and we're going to be better at it or not. And I think it's up to the generation behind us to kind of push us in the right direction but keep us moving quickly.
[00:32:32] - Brad Levy
And then I think there's a power struggle going on globally and we just can't underestimate what that's going, what that's doing to everything including supply chains of all sorts, whether it's dollars for christmas or bonds for you know, reserve currency,
[00:32:47] - Ying Cao
your vision and passion are truly contagious.
[00:32:51] - Brad Levy
I've been picking it up 25 years and now five times the text gotten away from me and it blew up the world of subprime. It blew up the world like I've actually facilitate like plus I'm old and I may want to leave a slightly different, you know, footprint on the planet than just the guy that did market structure stuff. Maybe I made a better market, we need the markets safer, but even bigger And also the, I think on the flip side having Children, when you have Children, your perspective completely changes overnight, literally overnight. In 50 right parents going from Children haven't used, You know, we all know the random 42, 30, 55 year old.
[00:33:32] - Brad Levy
Um, so yeah, it comes from experience and most of those things being
[00:33:37] - Matthew Cheung
tougher than the winds. Nobody chooses to be born. Nobody has a purpose. We're all gonna die. That's my favorite quote. It's true. You know, give you have to create the purpose. Nobody put you here for a reason.
[00:33:50] - Brad Levy
Thank you so much
[00:33:52] - Matthew Cheung
Thank you really appreciate the chat.
[00:33:53] - Matthew Cheung
Thanks for your time.