Living With Madeley
"Living With Madeley" is a nostalgic TV based podcast that attempts to take a humorous look at some of the most weird, wonderful and woeful moments in UK television history.
Titled "Living With Madeley" as neither host can remember a week of their lives where Richard Madeley hasn't been on their screens, join Andrew and Liam as they take you on a journey to TV past.
Living With Madeley
Series 8 Bonus Episode 2 - Conspiracy Theories
What draws us to the world of conspiracy theories? Is it merely entertainment or something far more profound? In this engaging episode, we delve into the riveting realm of conspiracy theories, dissecting popular beliefs and bizarre claims that reflect our human tendency to question reality.
Join us as we explore a variety of theories, from the age-old debate surrounding the moon landing to the amusing notion that Finland doesn’t exist. We tackle the mysterious phenomenon of persistent hums heard in various communities and examine how these experiences spark theories about hidden truths. The episode also ponders the implications of Paul McCartney's alleged death and dives into an intriguing discussion about the ancient pyramids' construction, posing questions about lost technologies and knowledge.
As we unravel the complex narratives surrounding each theory, we consider the psychological need behind them; why, in times of uncertainty, do we gravitate toward tales that challenge accepted norms? Through thoughtful examination, we aim to uncover what conspiracy theories tell us about culture, trust, and the human condition.
If you're fascinated by the twists and turns of hidden stories and what they reveal about our perception of reality, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in now and explore the nature of truth, belief, and the captivating world of conspiracies. Don’t forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and leave a review!
Living with Maidly. Living with Maidly. Living with Maidly. Maidly. Living with Maidly.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to Living with Maidly. This is usually a nostalgic TV podcast, but on the bonus episodes we've got our comfort zone Today's conspiracies. My name's Andreas. That's not a conspiracy. Well, it is actually. It's not my name and you are Leroy.
Speaker 3:Hello, bonuses, bonuses, yeah, yeah. What's that off, I don't know. Bonuses, bonuses, panicked.
Speaker 2:Panicked, didn't know what to say Conspiracy theories mate, yes, so I've really enjoyed this.
Speaker 3:We knew it would come to this, didn't we?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, everyone likes a conspiracy. I read it the Oxford English Dictionary defines a conspiracy theory as the theory that an event or a phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties. So that was I looked up because I weren't sure.
Speaker 3:to be fair, we've solved some mysteries in our time, haven't we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, many mysteries, yeah.
Speaker 3:If you want to go back and listen to that. We've cracked. I think we've solved Loch Ness Monster. We've solved various different Footprints in us. Now I think we've solved that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've solved that one.
Speaker 3:Yep, yep, yep, yep. So I thought what's the difference? What's a conspiracy theory? I think, from what I've read, a mystery is just something unexplained. This is something that possibly can be explained, but people don't like the explanation and they think there's some ulterior motive. They often think there's some, be it government or somebody involved, so it's somebody's attempt to muddy the water and put you off the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't know, sometimes we're all attracted to him in some way, even though most of them are obviously, well, I say, all from a bullshit. They're either bullshit or they've not been revealed yet, depending on which way you look at it. But whether it's because, like the theory is that I don't know engaging, you sort of want to believe him because there's such fantastic stories, some of them like the three I've picked out here, I don't want them to be true, but at the same time it's like, oh, it's like it's almost like a creepy thing, isn't it? It's like, oh, imagine that that'd be like that. That would be so weird.
Speaker 2:Obviously, other people are attracted to him because I think it helps him make sense in a world of chaos, and it's almost like, uh, and people they say, when, when anxious things happen, um, where they're feeling more anxious, they're more drawn to conspiracy theories, because and I get that because they can say, I think it can be people who are not always, but can be unhappy with their situation or, or, yeah, a bit anxious with how things are.
Speaker 3:They're looking for a reason to say well, that's why I feel like this yeah, there is something else there is something going on that I don't quite understand that they're looking for a reason to say well. That's why I feel like this yeah, there is something else. There is something going on that I don't quite understand that.
Speaker 2:I'm not happy with this, and it's not because everyone's incompetent. It's easier as just as humans to say not, you know, we're not, we're not, I'm not. Just I can't accept the people.
Speaker 3:They're incompetent yeah, often the case.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it is just bad, well, we'll discuss them as we get to well before I start, though, like some, some uh conspiracies have come true, obviously like mk ultra, which is the the biggest mad one. That's come true, but they well just read into that. It's incredible, obviously, hillsbury disaster cigarette company's not opening up about what smoking did for like 30, 40 years kept you under wraps. Uh, there's operation mockingbird, and so there's loads that did come true, so you can't just dismiss them. So what we're going to do today is decide whether the ones that we've picked out are actually. You know, this is not a theory anymore, we are going straight. This is, this is this is the truth yeah, and we're.
Speaker 3:Are we going to play the two clerks to decide it? So we're going to have a sound that, if we believe this is a legitimate conspiracy, we're going to play a sound that you'll hear if that's what we decide. And then we've got another sign if, if we think that's the end of this conspiracy, we don't want it anymore yeah, that's it right.
Speaker 2:Do you want to start, liam?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'm going very route. One I think this is a tale of two cities, this podcast, and by two cities I mean two, lots of research. Um, you spent hours and hours. I'm not doing it this afternoon something's gone wrong at work.
Speaker 2:That kind of was my fault, so I've had a conspiracy to me, actually, that's all right, is it?
Speaker 3:has it.
Speaker 1:Liam, yeah, or is that what you?
Speaker 2:want us to believe, because you can't be asked to do any research yeah, a little from columbia, um, so I've gone route one.
Speaker 3:It's a really, really famous one. I think we're going to come to the same conclusion, but let's put it out there, because sometimes the obvious ones are the ones that do turn out to be the the real ones. So this is that the moon landing was faked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very famous one, yeah.
Speaker 3:So this is based on the fact that NASA claims that they landed astronauts on the moon in 1969. But as early as 1970, a bizarre conspiracy had emerged that the moon landing never happened. It was kind of I mean. Mean, it was already talked about, but it came to much more common knowledge when it was a in a 1976 self-published book. We never went to the moon.
Speaker 3:America's 30 billion dollar swindle and then it was also turned into a movie, capricorn, one which I've heard of that many times. I didn't know that was about faking the moon landing. I've never seen it. So the main points that the conspiracy theorists make are the moon flag was fluttering even though there was no wind in space.
Speaker 1:I'll go through them all and then we'll explain. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Number two. So how on earth did the Apollo spacecraft cross the Van Allen Belt, which is a great name, isn't it Van Allen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, anything with vanning, as we've said before, is just automatically better, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It should have made it Allen Van Belt, and it would have been more interesting, wouldn't it? But yeah, anyway, how did they get across that, which is, I think it's radiation Number three? Why don't the shadows on the moon look right, and I've on the moon look right, and I've seen a couple of pictures where the implication is multiple light sources.
Speaker 2:The shadows are look to be converging on one point. Um, next one is no stars in the background.
Speaker 3:Yeah, uh, pretty obvious that one. But yeah, number five. I find it hard to believe that this is like a comment, because you could say all them, like you could say well, I don't believe it because this yeah, yeah wasn't the moon landing directed by stanley.
Speaker 2:Kubrick, kubrick now that's not a theory. I mean it is a theory, but I mean I've read that that. That fifth one, I mean I don't know if you'll come on to this, but I think it's a mitchell and webb sketch that they do a thing. It basically cost them more money to direct the moon landing than it would to do the moon landing and the final point that's often raised is why haven't we been back since?
Speaker 3:so I mean that's well. That's the easiest one to to disprove, actually, because we have. We've been there nine times.
Speaker 2:It's boring though, isn't it what you're gonna?
Speaker 3:do yeah, well, that's it, there's nothing, there is there. I mean, he says, carl pilkerton only first time went there one of them didn't even bother getting out of the spaceship he just couldn't be arsed.
Speaker 2:What is good about this theory, though? I love these sort of ones.
Speaker 3:I love all conspiracy theories. I mean, one of the reasons it's in there is again because I didn't have a lot of time for research, but another reason is because I could have had this off flat earth, because these are the ones that confuse me a little bit. As far as I'm aware and I don't have the equipment to do it this is very easy to prove that. We went to the moon.
Speaker 3:You've got a spaceship pal, I'm told if you have a telescope that's good enough. You can actually see evidence of the moon landing. So these are the ones that get me, if you're that convinced we didn't land on the moon get a spaceship well, yeah, either go there or get a telescope and have a look. I've been a part of it. I've been a part of it. Yeah, I don't listen to nasa. I get, I don't see I got a moon in myself.
Speaker 2:I spent my morning on moon and my afternoon on mars across the van halen belt not not life-threatening van halen, but yeah no, I just think so.
Speaker 3:To me, this is one where this is what they sort of thrive upon, isn't it that there's just enough because you can look at the flag picture does look odd yeah, it does that's normal, right, the shadows thing is a little bit weird, and even like people just dismiss it by saying, ah, yeah, but that's just to do with the topography of the moon and the light reflecting off certain things. There are certain things in there that, at a glance if you're not bothered to dig into it far too deeply enough, there are things that make you think, ah, yeah, yeah, I can see that, and I think it's something else that they play upon is. I think you see yourself as, like you're, the smart one in the debate.
Speaker 2:This is a lot of conspiracy theories. Do that. Yeah, it's like a little, it's almost like a child, like, well, I know something you don't know. Uh, can't you see that? Right, the moon lander one is fantastic because it makes sense as a I don't know as a theory. It makes sense because the americans just wanted to get there, obviously before the soviets yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it makes like I mean, there's a even better fit. That's why it was found with conspiracy. People love all the big conspiracy theories. They miss out on. The more likable, the more uh, what's the word? More believable conspiracy theories? There is a conspiracy theory that the russians killed like seven or eight people trying to get to the moon before. Uh, what's his name? Yuri Gagarin, whatever he's called?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, he's the first man in space, yeah, the first man in space, sorry, not moon, sorry.
Speaker 2:The first man in space. I mean, that's again, it's a theory, you know, a conspiracy theory that's more believable than the entire moon landings. This is just so easily like.
Speaker 3:I mean, I wanted to ask you those is, though, but but is it like because I'm I believe they went. I don't have any doubt in this at all, but would you be blown away if, if it came out in a couple of years not necessarily the whole thing was fake that we did manage to land there, because I've heard this said as well that the a lot of the shots and the stuff that was taken, the films and the images, they recreated them here to to kind of justify that we'd been yeah that doesn't sort of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can definitely see that. I'm not saying that's happened, but if you said, then if you're willing to go to that extent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're willing to say maybe we never went there and the what the only bit that sort of blows my mind a little bit is is when you look at the computing power and the technology that we had in 1969, and you see the spaceship and it looks like when you give kids old jam tart tins and toilet roll tubes and that and say, make a washing machine that blue Peter, yeah, it looks like that. You look at everything we've done now. It's smaller, it's compact.
Speaker 1:It's more efficient.
Speaker 3:We've now got computers that probably probably the laptops we're recording this on are more powerful than probably what NASA had in 1969, which is mental. Yeah so that's the only bit that I think. How on earth like was it just that there was no health and safety then? And just like yeah, and just like yeah just fly it up there.
Speaker 2:see what happens. I don't believe in this simply because I think everything Would you be?
Speaker 3:stunned, I suppose, is what I'm asking. If, in a couple of years, it came out that it'd never been at all? If it'd never been at all, I'd be absolutely stunned, because there's two major nations who have done this.
Speaker 2:you know Soviets as well, I mean, I think what my favourite thing about, what pulls apart this theory, is if anyone's going to discover that it was fake, it was going to be the Soviets, because they had every reason to want that to be. Imagine that as a scandal. You've faked it. This is how corrupt your system is.
Speaker 3:I suppose the only thing on that is, if it was ever proved to be fake and nobody's been would there not be a huge expectation now on the Americans, the Chinese, the Russians to start spending billions again, to be the first To be the?
Speaker 2:first, maybe, maybe. But I think that just in terms of like the propaganda wars if nothing else Russia is in, is in so much into their interest to say you fucking lame bastards and that destroyed. I think if you found out that your government were faking something as big as that, it I think if you found out that your government were faking something as big as that, it probably could destroy your society, I think they could have won the.
Speaker 3:Cold War easily. Imagine if Putin does a video where he's got his finger over the button. He presses it and you think nuclear war and there's huge banner drops that says America never went to the moon.
Speaker 2:We can prove it. That'd be amazing. So powerful, wouldn't it?
Speaker 3:A bit like that Mr Miyagi thing on Father Ted Great set of fellas or whatever it sounds like there we are, the Americans.
Speaker 2:a great set of lads.
Speaker 3:Great set of lads, but they never went to the moon. So, what are we saying, Liam? No, I think we have to say that I think we want to get rid of this conspiracy theory. I think we accept that they did go.
Speaker 1:No, I'm still the secret of truth and justice, okay.
Speaker 2:Right, so my number one, my number one, my first one is and I've told you what I'm going to go for, so it's not going to shock you, but you did laugh out loud when I first told you this one this is Finland. The country does not actually exist. Finland does yeah. Does not actually exist.
Speaker 3:finland does yeah right, this kind of blew my mind a little bit. Give us the kind of facts behind it, and then we'll, we'll, debate so the theory is that finland's not a real country.
Speaker 2:Not only is it not a real country, there's actually no landmass there at all and it's just the space, like a space between sweden and russia, and it's actually empty, and it's just ocean. Um, so the what it says? In the cold war era, around the mid-20th century, japan and soviet union supposedly shared this secret bit of sea in the baltic sea between soviet union, sweden, um, and they basically kept the fishing spots to themselves. So the japanese were free to fish as much as they liked it without worrying about international laws, as long as they gave their fair share to the russians. Theory is going to claim that the trans-siberian railway was built to transport the fish from the baltic sea to japan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to japan, under the guise of nokia hardware. This is where it gets quite good. Japan is the biggest importer of nokia products, despite the fact that no one in Japan uses Nokia products. So they're saying that they box them up as Nokia. This is all fish, because it's all on this little bit of sea. They eat a lot of fish, don't they? They, bloody do eat a lot of shit, shit fish. Western countries apparently this is part of the theory know this is happening, but they see Finland as a bargaining chip that could be played against the Soviet Union in years to come.
Speaker 2:Well, it's now not the time to play it, then no, no, no, no, no. If war starts. This is where they say right, we're going to unleash or not war, necessarily, but we're going to unleash it now. Finland doesn't exist, You've been making all this fish.
Speaker 3:I think that sounds a bit too late for me. When the nukes are in the air, I think now's the time to play. Now's the time to.
Speaker 2:I like this one, and people say even the country name is also a clue, because it's Finland, finn, what has Finns, fish? Fish, yeah, so questions people ask to back. You know this is what people say. To back it up as well, sorry to. So why would this not exist? Should I say why? At the height of World War Two, when there were battles, but these two were at war with each other, by the way, obviously Japan and Soviet Union. Why, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, why. Why would they come to this deal, this one deal about this little bit of land? You know what I mean. Why did Japan sign a peace treaty? This is interesting, though. Japan did sign a peace treaty with Russia in 1941, before their allies. So was that part of the fishing thing, did it say?
Speaker 3:on the peace treaty as long as you keep suppliers fish and then crossed out and Nokia parts Nokia.
Speaker 2:Remember Nokia Never write the peace treaty as long as you keep suppliers fish and then crossed out and nokia part nokia. Remember nokia. Never write fish on it, always put nokia on it. Um, so, even through the cold war, the, the tensions between these two countries weren't that big. And is the answer just simply because they said, shared this common secret, which was basically fish so no, definitely not, you've.
Speaker 3:I thought it's more interesting just that finland doesn't exist in a sense that you know, in a sort of bigger picture thinking things, does any country exist? We're just told this is the line on the map another little thing here is like.
Speaker 2:What conspiracy theories say is finland is often constantly placed first in terms of the best education, best health care, best gender equality, best literacy rates, best stability. He's got the least corrupt government in the world, apparently. You know, according to statistics and stuff freedom of the press can any country in the world be that good or run by sea lions? It's run by fish, obviously. Oh, by the way, people probably shout and what about the Finnish people? You know? What about them? What about them? They must know. They don't know. They think they live in Finland, but they actually live in Sweden or Estonia.
Speaker 3:Yes, so it's the whole bit about it being an ocean or a sea that's thrown me off, because I would accept that there's no such thing as Finland. You just live in part of sweden or you live in part of russia and you've just been told this is finland. Yeah, but I would imagine it's very easy to be on a be in finland and turn on google maps and see that you are in finland and it's not an ocean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that could all be changed, couldn't it like? I mean, if everyone else is in on it as well and they're just you?
Speaker 3:know, but they can't change the globe, can you? So, if I accept, you could say on a map there's not an ocean there. But if you're there, if you're stood in the middle of what is finland on on google maps, but as google?
Speaker 2:maps. Like you know, it's part of sweden and they've just changed. You know that bit's finland, but it's not finland because it manipulates your. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Finland that we think of Finland by looking at a map that's not there. You're in Sweden and your map is obviously saying you're in Finland.
Speaker 3:I can't see it. I just think you could trace yourself. You've got Google Maps open or whatever GPS you've got. You follow yourself across Sweden and then you would either go into Finland or you would go into a sea.
Speaker 2:Apparently, the Finnish people hate this conspiracy for natural reasons, because it's almost like they're part of, not the Truman Show, but it's almost like they're part of some sort of you know how you think you live there. But that is an interesting question. We think we live in England, do we? We could be in South Americaica.
Speaker 3:I don't know where we are, yeah, I mean, if you want to take this to kind of the nth degree of we're all just believing what we're being told and shown, aren't we? I mean, unless, unless you could get in a spaceship and fly straight up into space and look down on the earth and see where you took off from. Yeah, we're all kind of we're all told that we're living where we're living, aren't we? So I mean, I just not, I'm not buying the ocean thing. I thought you're just going to say, like there's, there was sort of a empty land between two countries that kind of nobody almost wanted to to deal with. So they just sort of said, well, we'll just. We'll just say it's a country, shall we?
Speaker 2:now it's the fishing thing, I'm going to go against it. It's one of mine, but I'm going to go against it. But I did find it. When I saw Finland didn't exist, I thought hey. And then you look at it and you think, eh, the Nokia thing.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, I'll have that.
Speaker 3:I do think there could something else in that region, but I'd be surprised if it was fish.
Speaker 1:No, I'm still the seeker of truth and justice. Ok, what's?
Speaker 2:your conspiracy to Leroy.
Speaker 3:Let me just remind myself. I've kind of got two to go out and they're both badly researched two different versions, um, um, yeah, let's go with the mysterious humming. So there's been examples of this all over the world, but but the one that I want to talk about was from an article which was just over 10 years ago, and it's it's talking about a place in durham which is the latest place to hear the strange vibrating noise known as a hum, and apparently for 40 years this has been happening in various different places in britain, north america, australia, and it it's not like, obviously, just one person here's a humming and they forgot to turn off the oven or something. It's where a village or a community and it often tends to be rural areas they all collectively hear this really low sort of rumbling noise. And there's no, there's no.
Speaker 3:Nobody can quite place where it's coming from. There's been rumors of overhead power lines. People said it's factory noises, farming machinery. They can never quite place where it's coming from. The. The crackpot theories, as it's labeled in this article, are uh, it could be ufos, uh, or ghosts classic.
Speaker 3:Clap out two classics, two absolute classics, yeah and people are saying this has been going on for decades all over the world. Whatever it is, there is something behind it.
Speaker 2:Isn't milton keynes a big thing for this? I'm sure I've read that milton keynes is, like what? The place where maybe I've not started, but there's a large lot of humming in milton keynes I did see something about a lincolnshire place.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure that there was a Again, this article is talking about it happening near Sydney. It sends people around here crazy. All you can do is put on music to block it out. Some people leave fans on. It's funny. It's probably those fans Everyone's leaving fans on to drown out the humming. It's all the neighbours' fans, isn't it?
Speaker 2:That's it, done, completed it. It's not a conspiracy.
Speaker 3:You've just left your fucking fans on, you idiots, but yeah there was a Logs home in Scotland and a Bristol Mystery Noise in 1970 are two of the most famous cases, but often the source is never found and it just disappears instantly. The bit I was struggling with is because I found this on a couple of sort of government sites this is a conspiracy.
Speaker 2:You're a part of government a couple of conspiracy sites.
Speaker 3:This was labelled. The bit I'm struggling with that makes it a conspiracy and not a mystery is what is the implied conspiracy?
Speaker 2:then you said aliens and ghosts yeah, you said aliens and ghosts, but yeah, but who's the conspiracy that if aliens are humming?
Speaker 3:but the conspiracy would surely be well, I suppose this is what happening that the authorities are saying, no, don't, don't worry about it nothing to worry about here yeah, it's just that old humming, that old humming sound you get around here. So yeah, I'm not, it's my one. I'm not quite sure where I'm going with it because I don't know what the conspiracy is. It's a terrible conspiracy for me to bring to the table.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to say for that one, I'd figure it's people leaving the fans on.
Speaker 3:So I'm going to have to say no conspiracy here. Yeah, I mean someone for the. I like this as an explanation as well. Somebody did a report for the Department of Environment, food and Rural Affairs. It said as for the source for the hum, don't expect to break for any time soon. It's been a mystery for 40 years and it'll probably remain one for a lot longer. That was an investigation. Imagine that one like I don't know imagine like the best detective Sherlock Holmes. Well, it's been out for a while, probably up a bit longer.
Speaker 2:See you later it might be a brilliant like good sketch, that about Sherlock Holmes. How long has this been going on?
Speaker 3:for 50 years so do we accept.
Speaker 2:Do we accept?
Speaker 3:I think there's humming in these times.
Speaker 2:I think there's humming and I think it's weird that they've not got to the bottom of it. I'll admit that I don't think it's ghosts or aliens, which is what your first proposal were.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's something untoward in a sense that? Because I. I suppose the implication is, if it was just ice, underground water pipes vibrating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, someone would have found out by now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somebody would have looked into it and obviously they're involving sort of government departments. So the conspiracy perhaps is why they're just willing to say, yeah, don't worry about it. It's been happening for a while, so is there something going on? They don't want us to know? I don't think so. No, I to know.
Speaker 2:I don't think so. No, I don't. I don't know, I think it's just people humming, I mean.
Speaker 3:I can't see it in this particular bit.
Speaker 2:What if it is just people humming?
Speaker 3:I think it could be wind, vibrating things and things like that.
Speaker 2:There'll be a real reason, it's not worth spending any money to try and get to the bottom of the humming.
Speaker 3:Fun worth spending any money to try and get to the bottom of the humming. Funnily enough, yesterday or the day before, I was standing on the porch and I could hear a humming. It was really irritating me. I never found out what that was. I think someone had started up a motorbike. I think you have to leave them running a bit before you get on them and ride them. That's all I could describe it, as it was like just for ages.
Speaker 2:That's a conspiracy, though maybe.
Speaker 1:No, that's a conspiracy, though Maybe.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not having that one, not having it.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm still the seeker Of truth and justice. Okay.
Speaker 2:So this one you have to bear with me here. I mean, I'm doing Like I say You've come to the party Fairly late here, but With your research and stuff and these next two I've got Quite in depth. So let's buckle up. This is A very famous one, probably the most famous music one ever, and that is I presume you've heard this paul mccartney died in 1966.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, one of the ones I was going to do actually because I've I've heard it before, but I didn't because I knew you were going to do this one was was similar about avril lavigne. So, yeah, yeah very similar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this one alleges that paul mccartney of the Beatles died in 1966 and was replaced by a lookalike either named William Campbell or William Shears, depending on whichever rumor.
Speaker 3:William Shears.
Speaker 2:Imagine that Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids. So this rumor began circulating in 1966, and the theory is that on the 9th of November or maybe the 11th of September, McCartney had an argument with his bandmates recording. Sgt Pepper got into his car, drove off angrily, crashed into something and died. He did have a crash around this time, by the way. I don't know if that ties into the context, Just on that and this is not funny.
Speaker 3:But I love how blunt the article that I read said so. The article that I said an argument with the band. He got into his car and was instantly decapitated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instantly decapitated. You know what is quite funny? I didn't know this myself so I did research. He did have a crash around, this time on a bike, but he chipped his tooth and that's the reason he grows that tash, you know, for the Sgt Pepper album cover To hide his chipped tooth and his cut lip Don't tooth, and his library's cut lip don't let him see the tooth, guys, don't let him see the tooth.
Speaker 2:So this room, we're doing the rounds in 1966, but we're on september, uh 17th 1969 when it really blew up, when tim harper was an editor of uh drake times, delphic student newspaper of drake university. Uh, published an article said it is beetle paul dead. And the article addressed the rumor going around on the campus at the time and it were about clues from different Beatles albums which I'll get onto in a bit. But this story spread really quickly and by Wednesday, october the 22nd, it was the subject of more than 100 newspaper stories and it made the network evening news on ABC and NBC that night about whether is Paul McCartney dead.
Speaker 2:It got to the point where Beatles press officer Derek Taylor said Recently we've been getting a flood of inquiries asking whether paul is dead. We're getting questions. Uh, years. We've been getting questions like this for years, but in the past few weeks he's getting day and night in the office. I'm even getting telephone calls from dish jockeys and others in the united states. It is not true, and mccartney put a statement out saying I am alive and well. But obviously he would say that, wouldn't he, if he were?
Speaker 3:if he were billish, he is dead. He couldn't. And if he was the other guy he would say that wouldn't.
Speaker 2:He would say that maca says, like recently, well, about 10 years ago, he said it was a weird time meeting people after that because people were looking at the back of my head, looking at my ears, just to make sure it was really me. What if I'm fascinated about this is? There's so little to go on other than the things I'll get on to in a bit. Why did people just what?
Speaker 3:he's mad that this made nbc and abc news I suppose that if there's a report he got into a crash and died, that would be huge I, I get that.
Speaker 2:I don't, yeah, but what is he dead? Did he die three years ago?
Speaker 3:I mean, I suppose you're going to get into all this, but has anyone seen pictures of this other guy? Has anyone?
Speaker 2:seen Paul McCartney? Your boy's took one hell of a decapitation. Have you seen Sergeant Pepper's cupboard? What did you say?
Speaker 3:Sorry, so this other guy?
Speaker 2:is supposed to have took over him, william Campbell, but he changed his name to William Shears. So obviously the big thing here is on the very first song of Sgt Pepper's. It ends with May I introduce you all the one and only Billy Shears, and that's it their way. One of the clues of saying look, this is not the. Yeah it gets better here.
Speaker 3:Right, so the most famous what I'm asking, though, is what happened?
Speaker 2:to Billy Shears then. So Billy Shears is now Paul McCartney. So Billy Shears Isn't now Paul McCartney? Yeah, but was.
Speaker 3:Presumably, if that happened, there must have been A Billy Shears before.
Speaker 2:Oh, I get what you mean. So what happened To his old life? I presume he must have Faked his own death To become Paul McCartney.
Speaker 3:That would be really easy To say, like Was Billy Shears A man before this and did he stop existing?
Speaker 2:This is what Part of the theory is is that his name was actually William Campbell and he changed his name to Billy Shears.
Speaker 3:So but but yeah, must live to the age of how old was he?
Speaker 2:About 25 or something. Yeah, about 27, 28, something like that. Yeah, um, but well, you know you, anyone could do this. There's loads of this. What I like about this almost you know what I mean Like, oh, it's a double standing in for him. He's not the real.
Speaker 3:You actually died in series two of living with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm actually, I'm not, but I actually I'm so many names.
Speaker 3:We've replaced you about four times.
Speaker 2:Nobody's noticed. So the clues this is what I like about this the clues there's a lot of snippets of. I'm not going to go through them all. I'm going to play one, if that's all right, Probably the only clip we're going to play in this entire thing. So this is the end of the song. I'm so Tired from the White Album and in this, if you play it backwards, people think John Lennon is saying Paul is dead man. Miss him, miss him, miss him, miss him. See what you think? There's loads of these.
Speaker 2:There's listen, there's loads of these, there's loads and loads and they're all like that. One to be fair, you know. But aside of the bat, you know the back masquerade, as it's called other supposed clues left behind, obviously the billy shears one, as I said um day in the life, where he says he blew his mind out in a car. He didn't notice that the lights had changed. Surely that's just the lyric, like, rather than a clue, rather than a clue, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Hmm, yeah, no, unless If he did go through a light and die, then that's. That could be a callback to that, couldn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, she's leaving home Sergeant Pepper, which begins Wednesday morning at five o'clock, which is apparently when he did have his argument and die. It was on a Wednesday. Oh, I'm the walrus. The phrase at the end is a man going bury my body. Oh, untimely death. There's loads of these, loads of these. Check them out, because I'd have been here all day if it had gone through all these. But this is where it gets interesting to me. Outside of the actual songs, I think all those you can say oh, oh, they're just lyrics, you know you can play any of those.
Speaker 3:There's that one in there as well. Try to see it my way. Why did we play Paul when he died in a car crash tonight?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Imagine if they all had that and no one would notice. Help me, if you can. Paul is dead. Amazing, wasn't it? But on the album covers this is where some clues get really good.
Speaker 1:Also.
Speaker 2:Sergeant.
Speaker 2:Pepper album cover uh, yeah, the yellow flowers under the beatles, um like where it says the beatles in the shape of a bass guitar. Obviously paul played the bass guitar and there's a bit on the cover too where it looks like they're in front of a grave. So that's a bizarre thing for a pop album cover. Paul is the only beatles and a black instrument, and obviously black usually represents death, and on his arm there's a sign that reads opd, which people said stands for officially, officially pronounced dead. This is my favorite bit. If you put a mirror down the center of the sergeant pepper bastro on the cover, you'll get the phrase 119 he died what's the 119 relevant to?
Speaker 2:11th, that said, that's 11 september. Uh, he died. Which is people? Have taken this as well, about conspiracy theory, about 9-11 as well, by the way saying, oh, they knew, they knew, you know that's not possible.
Speaker 3:But they couldn't know about something in the past yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2:One one he 119, he died. The next album is there any?
Speaker 3:like sorry, just just. Is there any chance that they're just playing up to this rumour and they're putting in things to make people talk about it, Like almost Paul's saying put another one out there, John.
Speaker 2:People have said this, but it wasn't until 69 that the rumour got massive, if you know what I mean. So these albums are before 69. So they wouldn't right.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's retrospective clues this is why it got big, because people saying hang on, have you seen it?
Speaker 2:yeah, and the magical mystery tour album. Inside the sleeve there's a picture of ringo's drum, drum head saying love the three beetles, and next to it are mccartney's boots, which are covered in blood. Um, another image shows the beetles wearing white flowers. They're all wearing white flowers on the suits, apart apart from McCartney who's wearing a black flower. Weird, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, ok, are there any more? Yeah, yeah, yeah, abbey Road sleeve. As you've seen, the Abbey Road sleeve it represents like a funeral procession where John Lennon's dressed all in white, he's the priest, ringo Starr's in a black suit, as the undertaker George Harrison stars in a black suit, as the undertaker george harrison's, like following behind, like he's the grave digger mccartney's barefoot, which many corpses you know are when they're buried, and stuff like that. The volkswagen number plate and the image reads lmw 28 if, which people read as linda mccartney weeps if means it would have been 28 if he was still alive, because he were, that's that he died at 26. He died two years earlier. So they're saying linda mccartney weaves 28. If it's such a. That is ridiculous, isn't it? There's loads of them I will not.
Speaker 3:One as well. He's out of step with the other. The others are all in yeah, they're all in step. They're all in step, just something you skewed over there, though that made me laugh and I I love this in conspiracy theories is you said, like John's at the front, all in white, he's the priest, and then you just very quickly at the end said Ringo's at the back because he's the grave digger.
Speaker 2:No, george's at the back, because he's the grave digger yeah, he's the grave digger.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, the whole thing about this, what I love about it and I don't believe it? Spoiler alert yeah, the gravediggers at the back. See Gravediggers at the back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love what this conspiracy theory is, because a lot of it is just people trying to find things that they already believe. Do you know what I mean? Like it's people who sort of I believe that and look, the evidence is staring you in the fucking face.
Speaker 3:Look at this confirmation bias, isn't it? It's once you've decided something, you're very likely to find reasons to back it up and dismiss things that that disagree. That's and that's. That's not something that people who believe a lot of this stuff fall for.
Speaker 2:We all do that when yeah, you believe something well, even in football, like I'll say, I don't know, vaughn's gone against us again. There's's a conspiracy here, and I probably say this as an emotional football fan. They don't want man United to have a penalty, they don't want man United going down, they'd rather have us going down. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Look at this here.
Speaker 2:Look at this still picture here, where he's not actually touched him. What are they looking?
Speaker 3:We all do it, but I think there's a difference, though isn't there. In the moment you'll say, oh, they do this every time. It's just cheats. It's just cheats. They want us to go down. But I think normally then you could take a step back and say, to be fair, last week we got a bit lucky. I think the conspiracy theorists and actually my third one might make me one. But the conspiracy theorists, yeah, they're looking for reasons to back up, but they think they're not looking at a rational reason necessarily. Yeah, they're looking for reasons to back up, but they think they're not looking at a rational reason, necessarily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'll just send this one anyway. 1% of the American population apparently still believe that Paul McCartney did die in 1966. There's numerous websites I think I've sent them to you before, actually before we even did this podcast, but it shows they put pic you laughed at this before. In fact, you have sent you this where where they post pictures of pre-Paul McCartney. So how Paul McCartney looks now and says look at his ears and they're being deadly serious, it's like yeah, he's fucking aged you idiot.
Speaker 3:Well, and also they do that thing where and I saw this on the Avril Lavigne ones they do one of the looking up and say, compared to this one where she's looking down and sideways and it's like, well, the him from a different angle.
Speaker 2:So I don't think there's any truth in this. I think if Paul McCartney was replaced in 1966, I think there's an argument to say the new guy is more talented, which what an unbelievable stroke of luck that is. Not only does he look exactly like him, he's also one of the greatest ever songwriters. But, that said, the style did change. That's where they started getting into drugs and stuff, so maybe this new guy got them going down a different direction. I just want to end with You're right.
Speaker 3:That is a perfect reason that it'd be fine to replace a figurehead of an organisation who comes out with waves and smiles, but you can't inherit his musical talent, even if you look like him, can you?
Speaker 2:imagine I mean, I suppose you could open another conspiracy that the Beatles didn't actually write their own songs. They were a team of songwriters, but I've not heard that one.
Speaker 3:No, I suppose the old feed, I mean the bit that I don't get. Let's assume it was true. So then, the implication of that being that the Beatles then put in loads of weird sick references to it in their album. And then this new guy, barry whatever he is, barry Cliffs or whatever, ian Campbell. William Campbell sorry, William Campbell, sorry yeah but, billy, we're not though, Billy Shears, Billy Shears yeah, but Billy Shears never said to him can you stop putting all these things in about Paul Dyer, I'm supposed?
Speaker 2:to be in now. Yeah what?
Speaker 3:you're doing the boots with the blood on. What's the? What are you?
Speaker 2:doing well. I just thought it'd be quite funny I don't know, I'm the grave digger, what do you? I'm a birmingham, that this is oh yeah I'm a boy, I'm warning you with peace, and love. Um, uh, imagine that uh no, he's at the back.
Speaker 3:She's the bir grave digger, yep absolutely.
Speaker 2:There's a line in a Jordan Lennon song called how Do you Sleep, which is a dig at McCartney after they split up, and one of the lyrics is those freaks were right when they said you were dead, so that's almost like yeah, yeah, yeah he's dead inside yeah, he's dead inside, told his soul to the devil.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna finish this off, which is not conspiracy, but this, when I'm researching this, really creep me out. On the magical mystery tour booklet, uh like inside the album, there's a picture of john lennon and he's wearing a sign that says the only way to go is mdc. I don't know what mdc means, but, as we know, john lennon was cut down in a hail of bullets by mark david chap MDC. It's a bit creepy. Diddle-a-diddle-a-diddle, yeah.
Speaker 3:Do-do-do yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you putting any even plausibility?
Speaker 3:at all. I just think the fact Because the thing is, the one thing I'll say is that you've given a lot of, if all those things are true, which I don't have, all these album covers to hand and they're not edited pictures If all those things are true, that is a huge amount of coincidences.
Speaker 2:It is a lot of coincidence, but again you're looking for it. If you thought Paul McCartney was actually a woman, maybe you could find things on the album cover saying hang on. You know, this has been going on for like fucking I don't know how many years 66, what we're on 2020, do you know what I mean? We're talking 60 years, 70 years or whatever it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Eleanor Rigby was about him as a woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's loads you can do, but anyway, that is my second theory and once again I'm marving it.
Speaker 1:No, I'm still the seeker of truth and justice, okay.
Speaker 3:Right. Third one I don't believe in the conspiracy theory that I've got up, but I think there's there's more to it. So the conspiracy theory is that aliens built the Egyptian pyramids. Oh, you're right. Yeah, so it's often being talked about. Probably before even the sort of conspiracy thing came to real life, is that the pyramids were far too advanced for the time that we built them.
Speaker 3:Um, there's all sorts of stuff about them being positioned to true north, that they perfectly align with various different stars, that the, the kind of the ratios used in them tie into sort of key. I think the speed of light is supposed to be a ratio and a universal constant that we found later on. That ties into him. So the conspiracy is that aliens did it and that the governments kind of don't want us to know that. The aliens have been to this planet in the past and had some impact on our societies. Um, obviously there's things about the egyptian gods as well, the, the kind of the Osiris and I can't think of the names of any others off the top of my head because I've got no research but the crocodile headed man. The crocodile headed man, I think Osiris had the bird head, the guy who does the weighing scales. Where's your heart to see if you go to the?
Speaker 2:yeah, this is just yeah.
Speaker 3:We don't need to know, you don't even know, yeah, but what I'm saying is, like you know, could they be the guy who's doing the?
Speaker 2:weighing scales, who's going to wear your heart? And the crocodile headed man unbelievable dismissal of Greek mythology.
Speaker 3:Could they be sort of some reference to other beings, to things that aren't human? Yeah, there's. Obviously. We've tried to recreate and do certain bits of it, and I love these things as well, by the way. So where I'm going to get to this, by the way? So I don't believe aliens built the pyramids, but what? What I do believe, which is conspiracy theory, I suppose, which is becoming more common knowledge, so we might lose a lot of fans here, but I quite often listen to the Joe Rogan podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes yeah, yeah, yeah as I say that, but he has all sorts of people on there.
Speaker 3:I find it quite interesting, and someone who's been on a few times is Graham Hancock, who talks about ancient civilisations. I thought you were going to say Ainsley Harriot.
Speaker 2:Look at Ainsley. Look at Ainsley Harriot. You went Ainsley.
Speaker 3:Look at Ainsley. Look at Ainsley moving these big rocks. What's Ainsley doing?
Speaker 2:How does Joe Rogan wear? This guy Ainsley, I can't believe what I'm hearing. What I love about Joe Rogan I don't listen to it, but the clips I've seen is he's always got his mind blown by. You could just go up and say well, there was California, and you're looking at his cup and it just smashed. Oh my fucking, I can't believe that Fuck me.
Speaker 3:If he hears this podcast, he might believe Paul McCartney's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, completely.
Speaker 3:But yeah, they have this ancient civilisations guy and I've watched some of his stuff and the thinking behind it all is that there was civilisation was far more advanced than we thought the Younger Dryas, which was some kind of meteor storm or ice storm that smashed a lot of the earth up and sent us back into the kind of ice age, almost. So where I'm going to get to with this is that I don't think aliens built the pyramids, but I think a technology existed that built the pyramids that we don't know about now Because we're not capable of doing what they've done, and I've sort of had this chat with people not just the pyramids, there's other, there's somewhere in uh, I'm sure if it's in israel, but there's some, some wall somewhere that's built with interlocking like 30 ton stones that are perfectly caught at the joints that we couldn't get any. Our working construction, we couldn't get anywhere near that.
Speaker 3:Now, how they lifted these things without any real equipment, like we have now a bit like this well, yeah, but stone engine is one that people sort of throw at you and they say, oh yeah, but they've done it. What they did is they put a trestle of logs up and they managed to pull these rocks up. Yeah, I'm not saying that you can't pick one of these rocks up with enough people and some ropes and a log, that's fine. These are thousands, millions of stones, massive stones. They've lifted right up in it and you see on pictures, like when you're at school, it's like a couple of slave guys with a couple of logs rolling, this big thing along yeah, yeah, it's like these things weigh like as much as a truck and they're lifting them thousands of feet up in the air.
Speaker 3:I cannot get my head round. I've seen.
Speaker 2:Hulk Hogan lift many a man in the WDW.
Speaker 3:He probably has to claim that I've seen the AI videos that are generated now, where they have these huge Hulk Hogan type people that are three, four times the size of a normal man, lifting him in Replace. Aliens built pyramids with Hulk Hogan. Built pyramids with hulk hogan built pyramids probably.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not saying anything, brother, but he definitely claimed that. I mean, I'm surprised he hasn't already. To be honest, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:So my conspiracy is and again I'm I'm kind of buying into this one a little bit that we, we, we couldn't build the pyramids now and we don't, as a society have any idea how it was done, and thereids now, and we don't as a society, have any idea how it was done, and there was a technology that we don't understand. I'm on board with this one.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go with you, not just to back you up, but because you are the construction worker, as they say on League of Gentlemen. Have you seen that? The construction worker, the construction worker. So I'm going to bow to your knowledge, much more superior knowledge than I've got in this, because I can't tell you how they got built. I can't tell you how that happened whatsoever you can't.
Speaker 2:No, I'm going to insult you is it going to be this practice yeah, we've got this far without this practice and you've had to bring it up on you in the final.
Speaker 3:I'm saying you do your best, I'm sure, however, they did it.
Speaker 2:They did the best yeah, I'm sure they did, but I do think that you have a point here, because I think this is something. As far as I know, it's not really something that interests me that much the pyramids and stuff in terms of the bill because built, because I'm I'm a complete there's things like that.
Speaker 3:There's stones that are sort of cut from hundreds of miles away 30 ton stones and they say, oh yeah, here's one that they nearly caught that had to be put on a boat. And I love these things of like, well, yeah, obviously, they just did it by sea, did they all right? So who lifted this 30 ton piece of rock onto a boat and sent it off down the river?
Speaker 2:like well, he obviously did put it on a boat imagine, this is where, this is where all kogan's music when it comes crashing.
Speaker 3:Imagine, oh my god, it's hogan I'm gonna lift another one on brother but yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you by the way, what I'm not necessarily buying into is all. I've read stuff recently about vibrations and they reckon certain frequencies can make things flow and hovers. That's. That's going pushing it a bit too far for me, I just think, however they did it, we, we don't know, we can't recreate.
Speaker 2:It's another interesting one where conspiracy as a whole this is there. I do sometimes think conspiracy theories sometimes when conspiracies are proven true and people are so close to the truth, but they have to go next to that fantastical level. You know, like I say, covid's a good one, this is happening, this is happening. The PPI scandal was a scandal but no one really got there because they were going for this too much.
Speaker 3:fantastic you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And this one gets tied in with like crystal skulls yeah, yeah, yeah yeah I mean, there's more to it for anyone, and anyone who kind of wants to know probably already does know but they found, I think, a turkey, uh, gobekli tepe, which is a temple which is far older than anything we thought had been built like that, and there's certain references on that, thousands of miles away, which tie into the pyramids, which suggests some kind of common ancestor. There's all sorts of backstory to it, but yeah, there was a, there is a lost technology.
Speaker 2:That's, that's what I'm saying, and I'm saying there is some truth in it and I went on a massive rabbit hole here and I almost wish I didn't pick it because there's so much to go on. This is the theory that someone other than william shakespeare of uh stratford upon even wrote the works that were attributed to him.
Speaker 3:Um, I think you have heard this one before, liam I've heard something of this and I find it quite interesting. I've never sort of taken it any further than just the whatever the initial article that I read was. So yeah, I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued what evidence there is For.
Speaker 2:William Shakespeare. Everyone knows he is obviously famous playwright, poet, whatever, the most famous, I'd say, writer ever. He was born in 1564 and he died in 1616. But the first person to raise this theory that he didn't actually write his own stuff or the stuff that we're credited to was a reverend and literally literal scott. Go on, literally scorer, I can't say it. Yeah, um, james wilmer, in 1781 he's. He did a thing where he tried to do an autobiography on shakespeare and found out that there were basically nothing to suggest that it even existed, let alone wrote all these amazing plays but in 1857.
Speaker 2:This is where it all kicked off. Two separately published books argued that the works of shakespeare were more likely written by a group of people that were led by francis bacon, who was the attorney general general and lord chancellor of england under king james the first and he's probably still the most popular candidate of who conspiracy theorists think actually wrote shakespeare's works. There's other one that was just quite interesting. There's a popular one is that it were actually a group of women, or maybe one woman, who wrote shakespeare's stuff but because they were women weren't taken seriously as writers back then. You know, they had to do it under a male pseudonym. Yeah, so there's a lot, but there's loads of people who've been credited. But anyway, these books were an absolutely sensation at the time and it became quite mainstream, or quite a mainstream conspiracy theory, that Shakespeare didn't write his own works. So the theory is basically centered around that Shakespeare's work shows a broad learning, knowledge of foreign languages, geography, familiarity with Elizabethan politics. So therefore, no one but a really highly educated or high ranking, or even some people say caught inside I could not have written the stuff that he's, that he's wrote.
Speaker 2:The argument says that every part, every other member of shakespeare's family, including his parents, his wife, his daughter, were illiterate. So our consumer sort of living in that society and being brought up in that society, have written all these incredible things, these incredible plays and incredible sonnets and what have you? His dad was a, as a humble glove maker. So why would william shakespeare know so much about high ranking lifestyles? The town of stratford at the time was seen as a cultural backwater, um bit like barnes. Like no, I'm a joke, I'm joking, I know we've probably got lessons from barnes but you know, in a minute it was seen seen as like I don't know, one of the lesser privileged places in Britain.
Speaker 2:There's no evidence of his handwriting, no letters or documents ever being found that were written by him. There's six signatures for him. This is weird. In the surviving six signatures, William Shakespeare did not spell his name as it appears on the title of his own plays.
Speaker 3:So that's the one bit. I've heard that there's multiple versions of signatures and they're not all spelled. Two different versions, three different signatures.
Speaker 2:Basically, there's nothing in his will at all about his poems or his plays. The phrases that he uses in his will is just mundane language. There's no like you know what's the word. Sort of extravagant language.
Speaker 3:Yeah, theatrical language wherever there's no documents anywhere to suggest imagine everyone crowding around waiting to his will, expecting this big light. Thou dost not know where will's belongings. Yeah, just I might have thought how do you know there's no theatrical?
Speaker 2:lawyers.
Speaker 3:You thought, you said there weren't one you are sorry is it just a will, but it's still that's it so, just like. Sorry, there is a will, but it's still so. It just like says I want him to have my.
Speaker 2:No, there is a will. Sorry, there is a will but it's a phrase. It's not necessarily written by him, because I don't know where it's, obviously. But you know, there's nothing about his play, there's nothing about anything, it's just really. He might have not written that.
Speaker 3:If he is real, if what you think is so far, first, the most intriguing bit, because I think he could write you know, if he's a, it's a bit of a one of these theatrically minded people who possibly dabbled with substances Like, I think it's plausible that he wrote his name differently depending on his frame of mind, or you mean dabble with.
Speaker 2:so he's accusing him of being a drug taker.
Speaker 3:No, I'm just saying like if, in his frame of mind or you, mean Dabble was always accusing him of being a drug taker, Mr William Shakespeare.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just saying, like you know, these sort of that's suspicious, just in his own world.
Speaker 3:I don't even know what sort of drugs were around in those days. But yeah, I'm just sort of I don't think it necessarily is a red herring Like it throws me off that he's written his name different. It's a bit weird. I'll accept that. The bit that the autobiographer couldn't find anything about him being a real man. I find that odd.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's some people who think he wasn't real at all, but that's not one of the more popular conspiracy theories. People just think he was just an average man who was obviously no records have been kept.
Speaker 3:Other suggestions then so far, I don't know if you deeper than Because the bit, I'm going with it. So it's almost like League of Gentlemen. You've got second mention for them tonight, but you've got Pemberton, rhys, shearsmith and Gattis, yeah, and the other one that you don't see on screen, but Dyson isn't it. Jeremy Dyson, they collectively write under the brand League of Gentlemen.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like Shakespeare is the conglomerate and there's various different people writing into that Is that kind of where you are at the minute, then that is the most popular theory, I think, or it's just Francis Bacon, and they want to hide their identity Again.
Speaker 3:There's loads of conspiracies or reasons why they might want to hide their identity, if you wanted to sell your play, it becomes ten times more valuable if it has the name William Obviously not the first couple. That's a bit odd. But once the name William Shakespeare is out, there is your play then much more valuable. If you claim it's written by William Shakespeare, yeah, once it's out.
Speaker 2:Well, he wasn't. This is interesting, though, because he wasn't as widely revered in his time as he is now, so I don't really know if there's much point. He wasn't as big as, like, ben Johnson. I don't think not. The Olympian, yeah, wasn't as big as him.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to weigh him up. Who's more famous? Shakespeare or Ben Johnson?
Speaker 2:who is more famous really?
Speaker 3:Ben Johnson, now William.
Speaker 2:Shakespeare or you same, who is like the most famous man out of those two?
Speaker 3:let us know who you think let us know. In the comments there's an episode of doctor who actually where they go back in time and they grab shakespeare and bring him to modern day. Oh, no, no, mixing up, it's van gogh. No, forget that, forget that right the arguments against.
Speaker 2:There's a many elizabethan playwrights this one about, obviously, that he can't have been educated enough to write the plays that he did. Ben Johnson, actually, one of them was the son of a Brit layer and no one else, you know. No one suggests that he didn't write his own plays. There were also books published from when he was alive that credit him to these famous plays, and there's also scores of actors and writers who referred to him as he was alive, in documents and immediately after his death. There were people such as Hugh Holland, leonard Diggies I'm honest I don't know what that is and Ben Johnson again, not the runner who basically gave eulogies about how great his plays were yeah, but they could have all met a different William Shakespeare.
Speaker 3:Was there ever a period where all these people got together, like the government and the Oscars, sort of thing, I presume?
Speaker 2:there will have been, yeah, like a 1600s.
Speaker 3:Oscar award have you met William Shakespeare, and it's always someone different.
Speaker 2:He's over there and he just vanishes. There's loads of arguments on both sides of this and, like I say, I went down a massive rabbit hole and I've tried to keep it as brief as possible because I'm gonna finish this podcast and look at some more research into this, because I found this what I love about this is that shakespeare like I say what at the time he wasn't considered as like the greatest writer even of his era. So, like all the best conspiracies though, now he is considered probably the greatest writer of his ever, arguably. You know it changes everything that we know about the world in a way, because he's been credited with over 1700 words that he invented into the english language that we still use today. There's more than that, but that's just what we still use today.
Speaker 2:Obviously, all the dramatic storytelling that we know today, all all the big box office films, they're all directly or indirectly based on Shakespearean writing in some way or another. There's even a lot of the Sigmund Freud's ideas about consciousness and envy and stuff were rooted in what Shakespeare wrote in his characters, I mean like the line, go on to be or not to be. That is the question. That's about suicide, that scene, and that's incredible.
Speaker 3:I said I could be a daycare.
Speaker 2:I think, therefore I am. I think, therefore I am, but it is. It's a very philosophical sort of way of thinking. So we're talking about the most revered writer in history and the person who gave us all this. It wouldn't have known the legacy that they'd have had at the time because, as I said, they weren't the biggest one. They'll never know. If it's not Shakespeare, they will never be credited for it.
Speaker 3:Well, unless we can unearth something that starts, would you say Shakespeare.
Speaker 2:I think there's an argument to say Shakespeare is Britain's biggest ever export.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think as soon as you hear that name, I would imagine I'm picturing the same William Shakespeare that you're picturing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bald head.
Speaker 3:Yeah, curly round the sides. Yeah, got like a frilly sort of white collar on yeah, tight Pants in a bow, yeah, pants in a bow, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know about walking around with a skull in his hand going. What shall I do for my sins of you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:but it might have been a complete illiterate moron walking around, just a town going, or it might have been not existed at all I mean, I certainly think it's plausible that William Shakespeare is a collection of writers, because when you think about it, like you just said, when you think how many things, there's geniuses and then there's. This would just be unbelievable if this man on his own wrote all these plays that have kind of.
Speaker 2:This is the best thing about this theory, because all these fucking plays that he's written, we've all studied him at school, but he's kind of defined culture hasn't he yeah completely. Western culture has followed a lot of Shakespearean stories and language, the language that we use, you know, is all that you know I mean, do you know, like, when you see these Japanese films and they're all like old english folks?
Speaker 3:no, it's probably the other way around, isn't it? It's like hollywood films are all sort of old japanese stories, I think. I think yeah yeah, but is it just a collection of sort of folk tales that have been penned and turned into plays? Or because, because, if you, if you imagine he is one man who, like you said I didn't realize you'd written a thousand different plays or works yeah, yeah. And they're all so highly regarded now. Well, think about. Well, you know.
Speaker 2:Julius Caesar Hamlet I'm genuinely off the top of my head. Richard III, macbeth what's the other ones? He's done Romeo and Juliet, romeo and Juliet, yeah.
Speaker 3:You can reel them all off. Was it the Taming of the Shrew, is it? There's loads of Hollywood films that are now based on the sort of initial concepts in Shakespeare aren't they?
Speaker 2:And he died at 50 or 51, depending on which source you use. But to put all these plays… which?
Speaker 3:is more plausible that lots of talented writers figured out, if we write this under the name William Shakespeare, that we can make more money out of this or that. Actually this guy existed, who has talent like nothing we've ever seen since. That's just unbelievable.
Speaker 2:He wrote 36 plays in 30 years. I'd say I don't know when his first play. I've not got that to hand, but seeing as he died at 50, that's almost like a play a year which has gone down. He did comedies. That's almost like a play a year which has gone down. He did comedies. He did histories, obviously tragedies. He was the most famous for Poems and sonnets.
Speaker 3:Poems and sonnets and all sorts. Yeah, like you say, like created words and just like a paradox, could he have gone back in time and taken these stories and written them?
Speaker 2:I love the theory more that he is just some nobody from a village like me or you and his face is all over these works and he's just a random man that history's got wrong, because I love the idea of this guy I'm looking at right now looking really serious, just being like a complete simpleton.
Speaker 2:He's just like I don't know he's the I don't know just is the local grave digger imagine that, like he's just I don't know he's working, I don't know, I don't know what he's doing, he's just maybe unemployed. Like he's unemployable. Imagine him a bit like homer simpson I'm just making mistakes and his face is like on the front of all these incredible plays because somewhere history's got it wrong.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I'm intrigued, I'd like to know more about this one of all the things he's talked about. I mean again, though, if we sort of strip it back, so what's the conspiracy here then?
Speaker 2:So the conspiracy is that he didn't write the works that he's been credited to.
Speaker 3:But to what end, though? Who's the winner? Because I thought to be a conspiracy, somebody's kind of keeping something from us, so who would be the winner? Who's hiding the truth in this conspiracy?
Speaker 2:Well, I, suppose the people who are hiding the truth are the people who wrote the plays and labeled them as Shakespeare. So they're the conspirators. But they're losing out, aren't they? They're losing out aren't they?
Speaker 3:They're losing out. Who's the gain then?
Speaker 2:Well, no, because they could be gaining if it is.
Speaker 3:The gain is the Homer Simpson stood in the corner, isn't it yeah?
Speaker 2:Who said that he plays a?
Speaker 3:success again. What play?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, for instance, if it is the group of women theory or one woman, the winner is them getting their stories out. That's lasted. You know, that's the legacy of like the best.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you like to think a bit like the sort of play the song backwards and it says Paul's dead, I miss him. You like to think that there's a bit that you read it backwards and it says well, it does not exist, I am. Margaret, I am Sally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sally, webster, um, yeah, look.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look, I think that the conspiracy I mean. I mean presumably, by the way, the logic, because I know that's happened other times, but the logic being that people wouldn't have given it credit at a female writer.
Speaker 2:So potentially she might have, but then even then the Brontes do something like that a couple of times as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in that instance, why at least be consistent, don't write his name differently, like if you want to give the game away.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, maybe if it's a group of people they might have not. Obviously there's no mobile this day. I just spell it again no google we've got a player.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure if it's by the same guy. This one says what does it say? Will chap spear? Is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah write that down.
Speaker 2:I think that I don't. I'm going to I don't know if this is true like any conspiracy theory. Realistically, I will never believe in a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I know you're going to conclude before, before the Hamill comes down. What is it? The Gabble? Before you bang the Gabble, Gabble, whatever it is. Yeah, what's the bit about the autobiography then? Why? Why couldn't he find anything about this real man?
Speaker 2:He went to Stratford and he couldn't find a single thing about him.
Speaker 3:This is just another lazy idiot. He went to Stratford it could be.
Speaker 2:This is it again. You remember William? Yeah.
Speaker 3:No who remembers William.
Speaker 2:Who remembers?
Speaker 3:William Shakespeare.
Speaker 2:And everyone's going no, you're on a bar pal, and he couldn't find anything.
Speaker 3:He went to his house On his way back to his room from the pub. We've been to his house haven't we Shakespeare's? Yeah, yeah, we've stood.
Speaker 2:We didn't find anything. That should be the end of it, shouldn't it?
Speaker 3:Nobody knew him when we were there did they?
Speaker 2:No, we said have you got any document? Nope, no, nothing about him. No, no, didn't know, didn't you?
Speaker 3:haven't enough in it though, for a yeah, maybe mate no no, I don't think it's.
Speaker 2:I think, of all the conspiracies that we've spoken about, I think this, even above the pyramid, one that I went for is the most plausible, just purely because of the, the caliber and the, the amount of work he did in such a short space of time okay, I'm with you, I agree so that is conspiracy theories. I enjoyed that li, liam. I know I always say this, but the Shakespeare one has got. They're all a bit creepy conspiracy theories and I think that's what I like about them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's conspiracy. After every episode you say I enjoyed that one. I'm waiting for the one where you didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think there must be one I didn't enjoy. I'm trying to think of one that I didn't enjoy.
Speaker 3:I enjoy. I'm trying to think of one that I didn't enjoy.
Speaker 1:I enjoy everything, I think life brilliant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um no, I can't, I can't yeah, well, that you might be thinking, dear listener, that that's conspiracy theory is done with. No, we're surprised for you, we should we tell them what it is?
Speaker 3:we've got our own conspiracy theory yeah, we've sort of mutually come up. It ties in something, I believe, for a long time, and I think you're kind of no, I think you're on board with it.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I think this is you've. Definitely, this is something I think we've come up with.
Speaker 3:I've got like a background conspiracy that I think's fed into something that we both clocked into recently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, you've got something that I weren't sure about. But now we've got our own conspiracy that we've independently sort of come up with and got together and go.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, actually that is true of independent adjudication, to kind of back it up.
Speaker 1:But we're going to that.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, my dad's fighting up so we'll go, and it's not about edmunds either, if you think he's no edmunds the antichrist no, there's no edmunds connection in this one. I don't even know if we say what it is. Do we just save it for the episode? Do we name the episode what it is and then let people sort of figure it out as we get through?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, we can do.
Speaker 3:The thing is if we name what it is.
Speaker 2:I think this what's the name?
Speaker 3:of the precursor and then we'll keep back the main conspiracy. Okay, go on then. Yeah, go on then. So the next episode is based loosely on something I've come up with, which is the Mike Baldwin effect, but the episode itself is not that it's going to be something else.
Speaker 2:Conspiracy, yeah the Mike Baldwin effect is where it started, and we'll talk about the actual conspiracy next week. And we've gone down a rabbit.
Speaker 3:well, we haven't gone down a rabbit hole, we've invented a rabbit hole um, yeah, we've kind of completely come up with something that that well, you tell us.
Speaker 2:If it's, you tell us you tell us, so let us know. Let us know your own conspiracy theories as well, all the ones that we've talked about, because there'll be stuff in both. But we've both said, because liam did very little research and although I did a fair amount of research, there's that much to go out. You can't really this.
Speaker 3:You know, there's always the extra doors with conspiracy theory so there are others, by the way, just just before we go, that I wanted to look at. Uh, I thought about doing the princess diana yeah, I thought about that one, yeah uh, carl pilkerton's dad thought that could be arranged by interflora, the flower company I remember that yeah yeah, um, and the other one that I really wanted to do but I didn't have time to do it.
Speaker 3:I've got some kind of half notes on it. It's what I started researching before everything went wrong was the cattle slaughter conspiracy in America, where lots of livestock turn up and they've kind of had bits removed but there's no blood at the scene and they're all sort of clean cut. So I might look into that away from this.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I wonder if there is no work, like found and says you need to do this is because you were getting too close to the truth about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, somebody saw my notes somewhere. Yeah, and that's it.
Speaker 2:Right, thank you very much for that.
Speaker 3:Ler you for our own conspiracy theory next time. Yeah, see you soon. Bye. If anyone wants to get in touch with us, send us anything, find us on twitter at livingwithmade1, or you can send us an email.