Pumpkin-Headed Monsters, Bear Hunting with the Backwoods Blaxican

In this latest installment in our mini-series, How To Be A Bear Hunter, we talk to Dante Zuniga-West about hunting pumpkin-headed monsters. We talk stillness, visualization and readiness, as well as Dante’s favorite bear gun and loads. 

Dante came to hunting by way of prep school in Bel Air. He is a mild-mannered high school principal, the offspring of educators, he holds a master’s degree from an art institute and he is the Backwoods Blaxican. He grew up searching out and reading hunting magazines then found his way into the Northwest. Now he lives on a farm in western Oregon and hunts bear and deer and grouse in the Coast Range. 

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This episode is sponsored by West Coast Floats, of Philomath, Oregon, made in the USA since 1982 for steelhead and salmon fishermen. Visit https://westcoastfloats.com/

Our TV sponsors include: Nosler, Warne Scope Mounts, Carson, Pro-Cure Bait Scents, Spring Pilot, The Dalles Area Chamber of Commerce, TS&S Madras Ford, Bailey Seed and Smartz.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And now, here's Gary Lewis. Next, next on Fox. But I understood him when I said he was cogent. He's far beyond cogent. In fact, I think he's better than he's ever been. Intellectually, um, analytically.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

In this latest installment in our miniseries, How to Be a Bear Hunter, we go back and talk to Dante Denigo West about hunting spring of black bears. We talk about visualization and readiness. And we talk about his favorite bear guns and loads, the 30.6, 300 wind mag. This is episode number 243, so we have to give homage to the 243 Winchester, so we're gonna do that. Dante came to hunting by way of prep school in Bel Air. He is the offspring of educators. He is himself an educator, he holds a master's degree from an art institute. He is the Backwoods Blackon. Dante, thanks for coming back on. Oh, thanks for having me again. It's a pleasure. Okay, just as you were clicking on here, Lee Van Tassel was trying to call me. I had to send him to voicemail. Do you got anything to say to Lee?

SPEAKER_05 1:22

Yeah, Lee Van Tassel is a household name uh in my family, and it's part of it's because the book that both of you wrote together is one that I read to my kids, and I read it about once a year, just to keep it in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Um It's called a Black Bear Hunting.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Yeah. Yeah. And he told I there was a podcast that you had with him where he told this story that I never forgot where he basically almost slipped on a bear. He was hunting a bear that he had shot, or or yeah, I think he was hunting a wounded bear and he slipped on it, and the thing jumped up, and he was like, I've not been that scared before ever. And my recent experience was also terrifying in close with a bear, and I was like, Oh, that's a Lee Van Tassel story. So I've been thinking about Lee. Lee, if you're out there listening, you were on my mind the other night while I was having a close encounter, and uh I would love to talk sometime, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Okay, well, you got my attention. I was in Alaska and you sent me a note, and I said, we gotta have you back on the on the podcast. So let's go there first. Tell me, tell me what happened.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Yeah, I was uh, well, spring bear hunt, and I had found a a good draw with about being used by about five or six bears. I had my cameras in there, I knew where it was, and um so I I'm a mild-mannered high school principal. I happened to be uh, I was like, I'm out, I'm like right after school. I headed out there, I had my pack, everything ready. I hiked about a mile in and uh set up on the side of this cut. I was with my friend Eric and um shout out to Eric who helped with a lot. Uh and right away, like I was busy setting up my my hide. I was like building my entire hide. I had everything ready out the the binos here, the the you know, the uh the rangefinder and getting ready to uh to sort of dig in for the night, and all of a sudden I hear Eric whistle at me and he's like Dante over here. And I look on the cut behind him, and there's a cinnamon phase black bear, a good looking one. Uh, and it's given broadside all day long, but I can't get through the brush there. So I had to run up a um a less than comfortable hill uh and find myself a shooting position up there. When I did, uh I realized, I don't know how how you shoot, Gary, but I've got a rule and I I teach it to my kids. I I use um I use a soft if I've got a shoot off of a stump and I don't have a bipod, I use something soft and I stuff it underneath the the rifle because I try it's hard on soft, not hard on hard, is what I teach my kids. Right. And so I I took my my ghillie suit off, the top of my ghillie suit, I stuffed it underneath the rifle, and um and I waited. And because I had to climb up that that hill that fast, I could feel my heart in my throat. I did the like big deep three breaths. I'm looking at this thing, and I take the shot. Now, broadside shot, I lost sight picture, which almost never happens to me, like because I've got a muzzle break on that 30 aught six, and I'd put it on there to not lose to so I don't lose sight picture when I pull the trigger. And uh the shot felt good, but I knew that something wasn't kosher when I lost sight picture. Eric was behind me with his rifle with eyes on that bear. He's like, hey, that's a dead bear. I was like, Yeah. He's like, Yeah. Eric is a former Marine sniper, he's an older gentleman, uh, you know, combat the whole deal. So, and I mentioned that because I trust his opinion. And I'm like, okay. He said, Look, the pink mist that came out of that bear was a lot. He's like, and he's like, it's done. That bear circled twice, circled itself twice, and then walked down into this creek bed. So we waited 30 minutes, and here is where we messed up. Um, here's where I messed up. We went back to the truck, and instead of bringing the long rifles, the long scoped rifles, uh, we were like, oh, you know, it's dead. We'll just go in there with pistols and like, you know, headlamps and packs, and we'll get him. So we had machetes because where we were going is, you know, it's the coastal range of Oregon. It's the jungle. And um the old timers where I live call it Little Vietnam, but it, you know, I do. And they know some of them went to Vietnam. That's why they call it. I know, I know. And like, yeah, so um the blackberry in there was really thick, like barbed wire thick. Like it felt like tentacles of blackberries attaching to my car hearts as I'm walking down this, this, uh, into this creek bed. Eric's in front of me, and he has his machete, and he's cutting his way in, and I'm behind him. And uh all of a sudden, like we we go right to where we know this bear went in, and about 15 feet from Eric, this bear pops up, looks at him, and then dives down into the bottom of a creek bed. And we're like, oh no, he's still alive. Like, oh, and I was like, okay. And I was like, I'll go first. Eric's an older gentleman, and he uh he's got a bum knee. And so I was like, I got it. Just, you know, I'll go down into this thing, and uh, we've got to go down deeper, deeper into that. It means that he's under some sort of something in there. And I was like, all right. So I keep going, I keep going, and the moss, so there's it's storm wrecked inside of that uh in that creek bed. That creek bed was storm wrecked. So there's crosshatch um trees left and right. So I'm climbing over trees, ducking under trees, to the left of me is a 20-foot embankment, to the right of me is a 20-foot embankment, and the blackberry is annoying. Uh, and the moss on the edges of those um of those logs is brown now. It's not lime green anymore because of the seasonal change. It's brown. Well, this thing's fur is brown too. And so, like, I felt heavy wind blasts go through, and I was like, oh, I think that's more moss. And I was like, no, that's his head. He's right there. That's his head. And the thing charged me. And I shot, I had um, I had my small pistol with me. Uh, it was a nine millimeter, and uh, I shot and I shot that thing. Um, I let off slowly. I don't want you to be thinking that I just mag dumped him. I let off slowly six rounds. That's everything that was in that pistol. But I was calm enough to be like one, two, three, and like as the thing was coming at me. And what's interesting is it's not as I was telling my son, I was like, you know, it's not like the movies, um the bear, that nine millimeter, and I don't know if it's the the power there were hollow points in it, but my point being that like that bear didn't stop. Like its forward progression did not stop as the bullets hit it. It the way it responded was like it was being attacked by angry bees. So like as those bullets went into that bear, it would it would like bite or scratch at the bullets, but it kept coming. And I was like, oh, and then unfortunately, I look at I hear the loudest sound in the woods, which is click, and I see the slide go back on the gun. And I was like, oh no, I'm out of ammo, and this bear is there. Um eventually we figured out after the fact, because this story has a happy ending, sort of, uh, you know, I mean I'm still alive, but uh, you know, we found out that one of those bullets shattered that bear's elbow and the other one went into its forearm. So I saw the bear go down for a moment, you know, like it it its head down for a minute, and then it postured up again. And at that point, I looked at the gun and I just yelled, Winchester, Winchester, meaning like I don't have any more ammo. And um, and I was ready to draw my knife and I was like, well, you know, I don't want to go out in a hospital. Like, I do love the woods. If this is what it is, let's do it. But um, and then I heard I heard Eric behind me, and he had covered the last 10 yards fast. And I felt um, I felt his his 380, like he he put, I didn't know it was a 380 yet, but I felt like cold steel over my peck, my right peck. And I grabbed the pistol and he's like, make it count. And I was like, All right. And then Eric backed off fast. And you know, I gave him stuff. I was like, what? You just and he was like, Well, I gave you every I gave you the last weapon we had. I figured, you know, like someone's gonna drag you out. I was like, all right, brother, I love you. And uh, but that bear bullied up and charged again. And I shot and I missed. And this, and I was like, oh, and like what Eric had handed me is a six-hour, it's uh it looks like a 1911, but it's a tiny 380. And I was like, oh, and the second time when the the bear I missed, the bear kept coming, and uh, but it didn't charge me with its mouth open or its snout towards me. It charged me with his head down almost like it was gonna headbutt me or bully, and maybe that's because it was coming up the creek and fighting blackberries, but I could see the top of his head, and the sec and that last shot went right into the top of his head and it dropped like someone shut the lights out. And I was like, Okay. Um, and you know, Eric was we're hooting and hollering for a minute, but I um similar to the way I told this story to my son, because like my son came down, my oldest son came to to help me drag out eventually, and I told him the story, and he was like, Yeah, dad, you're a legend. And I was like, son, I am so happy that you feel that way about me, and then I can live up to the that myth, but that is not how it felt in that moment, and I want you to know. But it was hair-raising for sure. Uh is it's a hair-raising experience, and it'll uh I've never had, you know, I've I've only dropped eight bears, but that I've never had one charge of me before, and not in that close. And the thing that was the scariest about it is there was no way out of that creek bed. Like it was forward or back. Like the I could not go side to side, like there was no way, you know. And uh with the amount of blackberries and you know, my ankles are in the water, you know, it it was uh there was no way out. It was bare or bust, as they say.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

So well, that is incredible. Okay, so what have we learned here? Um, go back in with the rifles. Yeah, yep, yep. And so I went to the taxidermist yesterday and picked up my bush buck from the last trip to Africa. And that thing, it was the same kind of a lesson. I I dismounted from the vehicle to approach the downed bushbuck, and I asked for my rifle, and the PH gave me the handgun, the 45, which was loaded with solids. And when the when the bushbuck got up, it charged the tracker with its head down to gut the tracker, and the tracker, he was like six foot two, six foot three, something like that. If he had grabbed its horns with both hands, it would have gutted him. But he grabbed one hand and diverted the bushbuck off to the side, and again, it it's the rifle that wants to do the work, you know. So anyway, that's an incredible story.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

Yeah, and I the other thing I remember to tell my son, because it's important, you know, passing on hunt hunting knowledge. I know you know this, but passing on hunting knowledge to the younger generation is absolutely important. And I'm like, I told him, I said, son, uh that I don't consider that I know you think that's super cool, but like that is not what I consider a successful hunt. I've dropped every one of my other bears with a single shot. I know it sounds super cool when you go tell your friends, because she's 18. I'm like, you know, you like I know when you have this conversation with your 18-year-old friends, it's gonna be super cool, but that is a failed hunt, or rather, I well it's successful, but I that's not that's not winning for me, but that was a scary experience, and I'm really glad that there's gonna be yogi burgers all night. But uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, yeah. Okay, man, oh man. Um now, so what happened next after you had the dead bear then getting it out of there? Yeah, that was rough.

SPEAKER_05 13:43

Um so I called um, I called my son, and uh he was with my dad, and then um long story short, his godmother went to go get him from my dad and then drive down there to find me. But by that point, me and Eric had dragged that thing up out of the creek bed. It was difficult. The amount of ticks, I have never seen, I mean, I've seen some ticks before, but the amount of ticks that we were surrounded by were really intense, and we ended up dragging that bear up through its uh uh the bear trails until we could get it to the landing where we could take it apart. Um and you know, that the creek bed itself was what was very um it was just there was no way to do that. You're not, you know, first of all, you don't want to quarter a bear in water. And second of all, like the blackberries were there was no place, there was no landing, no solid ground or anything. So we just dragged that thing out, um, much to the chagrin of Eric, who has a bum knee, but he did great. And uh we dragged that out there, and his friend Mikey came and that helped too. So it was basically three of us dragging this thing up and out and hauling it out um until we could get to a landing, and that was pretty amazing. I um I'd never had to do that before, but I'd never shot I've shot bears in bad places, but those bad places always had at least enough flat ground where I could lay that bear out and quarter it. And this was not that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Okay, and uh so 306, what was your bullet?

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Yeah, it's a nozzler accubond, 165 grain. Um yeah, they that's what I use. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I use also. I handload them 58 grains, IMR 4350. Um that's the move it's always done me well, and like you know, it's dropped a lot of that that cartridge has dropped a lot of bears for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

You just once you squeeze the trigger, it's j you know it's a new game. Game on. You just don't you don't know what's gonna happen next, you have some experience that tells you what's gonna happen, but then yeah. There's always a learning.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

Yeah, it's definitely a learning. It's definitely what you call a teachable moment in education. Uh it's like this is a teachable moment. Next time I'm going to show up with like, you know, arm to the teeth. Uh, but it was uh I guess the other thing that I in hindsight that I look at is had I chosen even a like had I prepared more for the worst case scenario being like if that's bear's bear is still alive, you can't like don't assume the bear is dead even if it acts like it's dead. That's you know, I was like, okay. Um, which might sound like common sense, however, I was I felt really confident both in my in my shot and in Eric's uh like when he was like the pink mist was huge. He was like the amount of blood that came out of that thing was huge. And like that bullet, when we when I took this thing apart, that bullet hit it um just below the lungs. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a kill, like if the lungs were out, it would have been done, you know, if if I'd hit the heart or something, but it hit it just a little bit low right, and um which is not where I wanted, but all right. And then the other bullets, I have a picture where uh when we were grinding it, we were grinding up uh, you know, yogi burgers, and uh one part of the forearm had the hollow point in it. I'll send it to you. I think you did send that to me. Yeah, yeah. You could see the hollow point in its forearm. And so I pulled it out, I was like, wow. And then, yeah, and my son was like, Dad, you shattered it. He's like, Look at the elbow, you shattered the elbow. And that's when I was like, all right, so note to self-like, bring a bigger gun. Like, and and uh I'd also like to point out for people who very much so like my 18-year-old son, who is full of um bravado, uh, I I think that while it sounds really cool to do that sort of thing, um like when you're hunting a bear, you're hunting a predator. And like that, it does not like being shot, and if you corner it, it will charge. It can take you apart. Yeah, and people think about like people I've had many people be like, oh, it's just a black bear, and I'm like, okay, well, and now I'm like, okay, well, you crawl down into a creek bed with this thing that's 250 pounds and can run 30 miles an hour and get you with claws the size of like my fingers. Like, you you do that and tell me how you feel about that putt that black bear.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Um Right, okay, so this is this is where people blow it because they don't understand that the black bear is the animal that will kill you and eat you. And it's it's in the United States, thirty percent of the attacks I just read this this morning, uh, are from brown bears. And almost all the rest of them are from black bears. There are some polar bear attacks, okay? And but there's relatively fewer polar bears and relatively fewer brown bears and lots and lots of black bears. That's why black bears are the ones that cause most of the problems. Alaska is the number one place for bear attacks. California is number two, and it's because there's more bears there in California than than any time in history that we in in our recorded history. And they're all black bears in California. And the the black bear that ate the old lady in California last year, that was a black bear. I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yep. And it did that, I think, on her porch. And um, let's see, Montana is number three for bear attacks. And so then up there, that's gonna be that's gonna be grizzly bears and black bears in Montana. So um that the other thing here is you use the gun you have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

So in your head, you had the 380 at the end. Which was the joke, yeah. And we were joking about it. We were like, well, 380 for the win, you know, we're like, yeah, like and my friends are that my other friends are like, wait, did you seriously shoot a charging bear in the head with a 380? I'm like, yeah, but it wasn't fun. Really glad you guys think it's cool, but like it's like that was yes, correct. You use what you have, you know. I was like, I had a knife too. I didn't want to use that, like, you know, but um that I don't know. I mean, I spent a lot of time, I mentioned this earlier, but when we were uh off mic, um, but you know, I I learned how to hunt. Um I learned how to hunt by reading hunting articles and then trial and error. There was no one to teach me how to do it. I just had a passion in my heart. I knew I wanted to hunt, I knew I wanted to fish, and so I sought out every last article or book or pamphlet or anything that I could on it by hunting about hunting in the Pacific Northwest. And um reading books and articles that uh people like you or Van Tassel or Scott Hagen, like all those folks, um, reading those things and being like, all right, like this is how I need to adapt to this situation, the trial and error element of it is is crucial. However, when you're hunting a large predator, you know, there's not so there's not too much room for error. And um, you know, and that's just one of those things where I'm like, this is a cool story. I'll look back on it. It's a cool story to tell after, you know. Like I was like, I will not make that mistake again. Um, you know, and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah. My story that's the most like that one is the one with my 12-year-old daughter, and she was In the 243 Winchester, and it was a um we had to use a Brandex bullet in that rifle, and those bullets blew up on on the bear and didn't penetrate to the heart lung. Uh and and uh then when it came time to go in, I went in with a seven millimeter magnum and one in the pipe, three in the magazine. I put all four of them in the bear facing face on at me, um, in kind of a square box pattern, one in this shoulder, one on that shoulder. Yeah, yeah. I shot the box. I shot the box and um it it it's it's a moment, you know, that just is in your memory forever after that, huh?

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Yeah, yeah, I don't never go, yeah, and uh one of the things my buddy Eric said, I was like, Eric, in the future I believe we should go back up to the truck and get the bigger guns. And in classic marine, he's an ex-marine, classic marine. He goes, Yes, but where would the fun of that been?

SPEAKER_04 23:17

And I was like, Yeah, okay, cool. Like, that's funny to say now. Ha ha, I'm alive, you are too, but guess what? That was not how it felt before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Where would the fun that been?

SPEAKER_05 23:28

Like, yeah, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I was it back at the scene of some of our great bear adventures on Prince of Wales Island last week. And uh so I was well, you're lucky I didn't really talk about it with Trevor who was with me, but I was but I was reliving some of those moments in my head as I was driving on those roads. So um we still have a lot more to talk about here, but uh this is our episode number 243, which means uh we gotta give some homage to the 243 Winchester. When I when I got my job at Nozzler Incorporated, I think it was 1996, um, Bob Nozzler's doing the second interview with me, and he says, What are your three favorite calibers? And I said, Oh yeah, that's easy. I said, I like the 22 long rifle, and of course I know that Nozzler doesn't make any 22 long rifles. He's just kind of wrinkled his nose at me, and I said, I shoot a 243 Winchester, and he's like, I mean, I could see his eyes almost glaze over as this guy's boring me. Yeah. And then I said, and my favorite handgun is the 357 maximum, which is a very rare caliber, and if you know, you know. And and Bob knew about the 357 maximum. So we were friends after that, and I actually got to write the 357 maximum chapter in um a couple versions of the nozzler loading manual. But I chose a 243 um originally because I was recoil sensitive as a young, you know, a younger hunter, and I bought an old uh Remington 78 Sportsman, and it had a really, really good trigger. I gave it to my father-in-law, and then he floated the barrel. And that gun is still in service, and it was a very accurate gun to shoot, and I killed um my second deer with it, my third deer, and then it served the family, and then um it went on to uh another family. But Nozzler has um the Acubon, the ballistic tip, the ballistic tip, varmint, the BT, lead-free, um partition, um BST, custom competition, expansion tip, RDF, probably more than I than I can think of. Um but it's it's based on that 308 case. And so it's necked down to the six millimeter. It's a really good choice for antelope. I've used it on antelope, and it's um uh it's like one of my favorite coyote calibers, also. I love shooting coyotes with the 243.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

Yeah, I'm very interested in it. I was I'm happy for this education. Um, I very much so want the 243 for an antelope hunt. I think um it was between that and the 6.5 Creedmore, and I've been talking with my son about it and my other hunting buddies, and I was like, I think we should go 243 because it's a smaller animal, you don't want to damage it to me, and also just um just the power and and the um distance for the power and the distance that you need to do an antelope with, my understanding, which also for the record, just to be humble, is all through articles. I have not hunted antelope before, but I think that's the right cartridge for antelope um in in eastern Oregon. So I'm uh I'm very much excited about it.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I have friends you're probably getting close to drawing that tag sometime. Soon. Soon. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I hope so. Um yeah, um, I I would say the the 243 is a good choice for antelope. The 6.5 Creedmower is also a great choice for antelope, and um I you know it use the gun you have. Like like you just learned last week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Maybe I'll yeah, maybe I'll shoot 6.5. Uh yeah, it gives me an excuse to buy a 243, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

My favorite my favorite bullet is in that six millimeter for the 243 is uh 95 grain partition. That's that's the one we've used the most. And um, I like that one. Okay, now um you before we get into this this one that happened last night. Yeah. Um do what do you think? You're you've got lots of experience as a bear hunter now. Um what do you think is important in your on the spiritual side of um of bear hunting? W is there something you do for preparation mentally? Um let's talk about mental mental and physical preparation.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

Yeah, I mean physical preparation, like I said, I'm a I'm a mild-mannered high school principal, but I keep a pull-up bar in my in my office, and I will often challenge my students to do pull-ups with me uh over and over again. And uh really legs and lungs when it comes to like getting into those canyons, because where you find a bear, similar to what happened to me, uh, and happens to all my friends who hunt bears, that bear, when you shoot that bear, if it doesn't drop dead on the spot, it's going to the darkest, most terrible creek bed ever. And you're gonna have to go down in there and then turn around and come back up with it. So um, so really it's physically it's squats and um physically it's squats and pull-ups. Uh you know, cardio, make sure you can walk, you know, put that treadmill on an incline, walk it. Um, I used to walk it with a weight vest. Um, I didn't do that this year, and I paid for it. But um so those are things mentally and spiritually, you know, the Native Americans used to call bear man without fire, and it makes sense. And what I've learned is every bear is different. Like they are every every bear that I've encountered has been different. And it's almost like, you know, uh I'm not gonna say that they have their own personalities, but they definitely have their own habits. And so, you know, having a 200 that are unique to the individual.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Correct. Yeah. Habits and tastes that are unique to an individual. One barrel prefer, I mean, this is this is something you can document. One barrel prefer this type of pie, and another barrel prefer that flavor of berry in in the pie. And this is because bears will be broken into bakeries and eaten you know one pie to exclusivity of another, and then vice versa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:40

That does not surprise me. Yeah. You know, they just after patterning them, and you know, you get used to, as with most animals, but I guess I'm particularly I just like hunting bears, but I mean I hunt other animals too. But um, in terms of hunting bears, you get used to you pattern an animal, you get used to them. You start becoming familiar with them. And um, you know, it's why we say thank you, bear, when we get to the bear and it's done. Thank you, bear. Uh, and I teach my children that. Um, I oh, I got to take my daughter bear hunting. We didn't successfully do it, but I got to take my I got to take her hunting. Um, you know, she's seven. I got to take her hunting for the first time, and she was laying next to me on my pack with the binoculars out, and I was like, Yeah, and she's like, Yeah, Dada, bear time. And I'm like, Yeah, bear time. And uh, and so it's super cool. Like, and being a girl dad like that is cool. Like, I got I have two boys, and uh, the daughter is and my daughter, and my daughter is probably um probably the most intense hunter out of all. Like, she loves sneaking up on animals and doing all that. Like, my my boys are good, but um the spiritually I've learned a lot from from watching her hunt because when you put children in the natural world, the natural world has its own reward system. And you know, watching children do that is watching children experience that is beautiful, and it's something that we lack from our traditional education elements, and um, and so I I take great pride in being able to to experience that with my own children and take other people's kids out into the woods to do that stuff too. But spiritually, I think when you're when you're prepared to go after an animal like a bear, um, you have to be I personally um spend time thinking about that bear. And the weirdest thing, and not to get too woo on it, but like I have bear dreams, and I know that I'm getting close to like bear season when I start I have bear dreams. I'm like dreaming about hunting bears. And I always wonder, like, am I dreaming about this bear or are there other bears, you know, but like I I have bear dreams and uh and they they bring a sense of peace to me where I'm like, no, I'm going to meet this bear, and I will, you know, that that part is uh, I look forward to it every year. That's my that's a it's a cool spring tradition at this point.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, and you live in a unique part of the world where there are a lot of bears. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:06

Someone asked me that yesterday because they were like, oh my god, are you killing all the bears? And I was like, so there are 30,000 that I know it, you know, and I was I took the time, it was a teachable moment, Gary. I took the time to educate that person. And I was like, there are 30,000 bears, according to ODFW, in the state right now, with inside of a 40,000 square foot acreage thing. That's what's up. It's good. We use all the animal, like the liver, the heart, the all everything that you know is still intact. Uh, you know, and explaining that to people being like, yeah, this part of the world is very rich in bears. It's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Did you um were you able to take any fat off of this bear? Did it have a lot of fat?

SPEAKER_05 33:55

This one had a decent, this one had a decent amount of fat, but not heavy. The the one that I shot was uh about 220, 250, I'd say. And there was fat on it, and I use that for mostly I I give it to a friend of mine, her and her husband make soap out of it, and then give me the soap back, which is pretty cool. I also like cooking with it, and also you can grind it in with the I mean, as you know, you can grind it in with your with your ground bear, so you have bear fat. Um, I've got some buddies up at McKenzie who will beg me for the for the bear fat, and they're uh they use it to to cook um blueberry pies and things of that next year.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

Oh, yeah, I'm big on the fat. The one from last night is fatty fat fat. And like I'm gonna have to figure out how what I'm doing with that amount of fat tonight, probably. I mean it's uh that's a good chunk. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

So what we do is we carve up, we carve out that fat and then discard the yellow off-color fat, just throw that away, and then the the clean white fat, try to keep that as clean, put stainless steel dish, you know, whatever, and then and then start in rendering it. And I usually like to do that outside if we can, but we we've rendered inside, and then um, I think on my website I have the plan for rendering fat. I'll check it out.

SPEAKER_05 35:28

I I'll check it out. I think you need to I've done it before, it's just a big old turkey burner, and you know, and then there's there's crackling, cracklings. That was the thing one of my friends from the south taught me about, and I was like, cool. Um, and that's tasty because people just eat the fat and I and it's tasty.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Uh we also that's a good dog treat, too. That that the cracklings.

SPEAKER_05 35:46

Nice. Nice, nice, nice. Yeah, I've got two big German shepherds, and they know when I come home from bear hunting. They know when there's a bear in the truck. It's funny, I'll leave the bear in the back of the truck and come in the house, and they run out and they're just sniffing the back of that bed.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

They know, you know, it's uh okay, so what happened last night?

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Yeah, so last night, um, okay, so last night I had uh the pleasure of going to my son's declaration ceremony, which means that you go, you know, you go and watch your kid um declare where they're what they're doing next in school in life and watching all of his friends go through it. That was awesome. We get home afterwards, it's probably about 6:30, maybe seven. And I'm thinking, you know, cool, like let's let's make pizza, like hang out, like, you know, and I'm like, yes, I get to spend this time. And all of a sudden I get a text message from his godmother, and it says, uh, bear down, I think, bring guns, lights, and the boy. And I was like, oh, it's going to be that kind of night. And then because of the experience that I had before, I was like, all right, I'm going in here like I'm going to, you know, storm the beach. Yeah. I'm still, I've got like, yeah, dude, I brought like 12 gauge lights. Like every gun we had had lights on it. Because I was like, I don't want to fight this monster in the dark. Because I knew I know there's three other big bears in that cut. And that, like I said, the bear I shot was like 250. There, there were monsters in there, and I knew it. And um, I just I feel good about the bear I took. It's a cinnamon bear. I'm happy about it. It's my second cinnamon-phase bear. It's cool, but I was like, no, there's pumpkin headed monsters in this cut, and I know it. And I was like, I bet she ran into one of those, and I don't want to fight one of those things with a nine millimeter. So I was like, I showed up with a was a 12 gauge, Mossberg 500, uh, with loaded for bear, as they say, slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot, you know, a 45, and then uh, and with a 45, and then gave my son a Glock with 17 rounds in it. And I was like, all right, it might be a very long night, son. And he was like, Yeah. Again, he's 18, so forgive his uh passion. But he's like, what if it comes down to the knife? And he went and got my K-bar and strapped it on him, and he was like, Yeah, and I was like, All right, okay. But anyway, I I find I find the godmother in uh her name's Kate. I find it, I find her in a uh in the canyon, and she's laughing, and she has this thing. I think I sent you this picture, but uh, she's holding this thing by the head and she's laughing, and it's huge. I was like, okay, that's like a 370 pound. That you did get the big one, but she dropped it with one shot, same load, um 306 Ruger American, uh 165 grain nozzle accuband, um, hand loaded. Uh, she hit it with one shot, she said it went down. It said that she said it circled twice and then went down. And she said she I waited, she's like, Dante, after your story, I waited a long time and I threw rocks and sticks at it to make sure it was down, and I was like, Yeah, I bet you did. Uh and so by the time we got there, we were like, all right. And I was like, okay, that's a that's a huge good job, big bear. And uh, and we spent last night dragging, cut quartering, and taking that thing out of the canyon. And I was glad that I had uh my my oldest son, because you got to use the young strong backs sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Oh man, so she got a pumpkin-headed monster.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

Yeah, yeah, it's big. I'll see what's up later tonight or tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

But um now, did did she talk to you about mentally preparing? Was this her first bear?

SPEAKER_05 39:28

No, it's her third.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

But Okay, does she talk to you about mental preparation, what she does?

SPEAKER_05 39:33

Yeah, and I think for her, a lot of it is breathing. She's like, yo, when it when when the time comes, breath control is what is the biggest thing. And I'm like, yeah, because you see this giant bear and your heart's in your chest, it's beating out of your chest, and you're like, you know, and that as they would say, buck fever. And she's like, yeah, she's like, I control my breath the most. And uh, and she also says she has bear dreams too. She's like, I have bear dreams. She's like, I have them all the time, like year round. And I was like, Oh, I only have them in spring. She's like, Okay, you're weird, but oh hers, I guess hers go year round. And uh, and she's like, No, I have those dreams, and I think about it. She's like, mostly what mentally she says the two things she prepares for, and I guess it ties in with physical, is um breathing and then controlling your finger around the trigger and using your finger, not your whole hand. You know, when you're because that's those are the things that mess up hunters, and so you know they are, yeah, they they are for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sounds funny, but it's actually right on.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

Yeah, and yeah, trying to one of my favorite parts of being a hunter is trying to explain hunting to people who don't hunt. And like a lot of that is because I, you know, I grew up in Los Angeles, I fled as soon as I could. I turned 18, I've moved to Washington, and as soon as I realized there were like seasons and trees and like salmon and bear and deer, I'm like, I'm never going back down there. Uh, but but I run into people even from here in Oregon and even sometimes in rural parts of Oregon, and they don't, they they're not living the same kind of lifestyle I am, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

But trying to explain hunting to them and then talking to them about bears, specifically bears, because like uh uh you could tell people you hunt deer and they're like okay, or like elk and they're like cool, and then bears and they're like, oh yeah, bears bears get people right where they uh they it's an emotional reaction, and yeah, and I get it from hunters who should know better, you know. They're like, oh well, I I wouldn't do that. Well, um, you know, and to me, they're missing out on an essential part of the conservation experience. And you know, the North American model of wildlife management is is all wrapped around this, you know, and and responsible hunting of predators and and scientific wildlife management. Do you want to be a part of of scientific wildlife management, or do you only want to be um, you know, involved in in a fraction of it?

SPEAKER_05 42:06

Yeah. And I that one of the first things I explain to people when they ask me about bear hunting is like, you know, I I have to um take my bear skull in to an ODFW biologist. That has to happen. You tag your bear, you bring it into an ODFW biologist, and that biologist takes a molar out of the bear, then you get a postcard like six months later, like telling you how old your bear is, and I keep on my postcards. And people who are not involved in hunting are like, wait, really? And I'm like, yeah, and you know what? Sometimes it's harder to find the biologist than it is to find the bear. Like I and I I sorry, ODFW. I love you. Please, I I want my tax next year too. Please don't mess with it. But like, but yeah, ODFW, it can be hard to find their biologists. Um, but I find them, and I'm going to, you know, uh, and you know, and it's it's one of those things. But I I think it's important for the public to understand that that that hunters are used as a form of conservation uh uh by the the state and by those biologists because it's yeah, I see it as being hand in hand. The biologists, they know me. They're gonna be, oh, it's Dante, brought another bear. Awesome, super stoked that they know me by name. But like, more importantly, like I want people to know that that there's a process for this and like you're mandated to do it, and so you are sort of de facto, when you buy that tag and pull that trigger and accomplish the goal, you are becoming a part of that larger conservation element.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yeah, yeah. Okay, now let's back up and talk about patience a little bit. Yeah. Um so spot and stock. What does it take to be a bear hunter, Dante? You know, what what do you have to be willing to do? Yeah. Um in terms of patience.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

Okay, and patience. Okay. An observation. You have to be this is interesting. I had a conversation with one of my students. I I run a high school in town. Uh I had a conversation with one of my students about the ability to sit in silence for a long period of time. And it's something that our young people are having a problem with, primarily because they have so much access to phones, computers, algorithms, etc. The ability to sit in complete silence for a long period of time is a skill. And you know, that is a lot of what it takes. I remember asking you a couple years ago, hey, I haven't done fall bear yet. What do I do? And you're like, find the food source and sit. And you capitalize the word sit when you text it to me. You're like, and sit for a while. And so that patience is the first like being able to sit in silence and wait is important. Being able to wait until last light, if you can, is important. Uh, because the bigger bears tend to come out at last light. They just do. They didn't get big by being dumb. Uh, and they come out at last light at wait. Um let's see, what else in terms of patience? Oh, shot placement. I think that shot placement is really important if you don't want to end up chasing a bear down a creek and shooting it with a 380 in the head. Um the reality of that shot placement is that you have a moment, you know, when you're gonna take that shot and paying attention to um your paying attention to your body, to your body and the signals your body is giving you is important. And one of the things I do that has helped me a lot is when the when I put the crosshairs where I want them, I blow all the air out of my body, and then when I see where those crosshairs drop to, I adjust. Then I take a breath and drop again, and the crosshairs are where I want them. Meaning I and I know there's like open lung, closed lung technique, and whatever all bodies are different, people are different, but like figuring out how you can calm your body in that moment and be patient there, that that is what makes a difference between a bear that's like, you know, in a reasonable place and then you or you chasing one down a freaking creek with you know hair on the back of your neck standing up.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Okay, well, let's see. Um your your rifle, your 30-6 that you used on this hunt, how is it set up? So Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:31

I'm glad you asked that. So um I love this gun, it's got a lot of bears on it and a lot of deer. Um it's uh so it's a Ruger American at the chamber in 30 aught six. I bought a um a cheek piece for it so that I could get my cheek weld to it better. And I I drilled that in, I saw that myself. Um you know, I I bought it and then I drilled into the back of that stock and adjusted it so it's exactly how I am. I think customizing the weapon that you want to use is key. I think that's really important. You want to be comfortable, as comfortable as you can be in an uncomfortable situation. Um, it's got a muzzle brake on it. Um Richard Buss rest in peace, is uh old timer over here who used to make muzzle brakes, and uh years ago I had to make me this really nice muzzle brake, and so it's on there. It's there to to give me sight like so that I so that after the shot or you know immediately after the shot I don't lose sight picture. Um and the muzzle brake helps a lot. Uh I did not fix it, I did not mess with the trigger. I like the way that that trigger works. Um it's a working man's gun. Uh again, I'm a high school principal, it's not a big budget over here. Um and uh the scope is a Leopold uh VX2. Um I've been using it. It's got um it's got mill dots, and I I don't um I don't mess with my turrets when I'm shooting. It's an odd six, so I'm really not gonna take a shot past 400. But like the crosshairs, it's zeroed at 200, the next dot is 300, the next dot is 400, and the top of the post is 500. I can consistently hit 400 yards. Uh and I have competitions with my oldest son about this, so I know that I can. However, I usually don't take a shot with it that's um further than 300.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

And where you live, you probably you don't need to. No. Generally.

SPEAKER_05 48:27

Not usually. And then I don't know, some of those cuts are big. The logging has been really intense this year, and it was really into last year we didn't get a bear, which was weird. Like all my friends were like, Did anyone get a bear? And it was like, no, everywhere we went, there were loggers and gates, and like we could not find bear. Uh so that that and that's this, you know, that's the southwest unit, meaning like all the units south of 126. Um, we couldn't find them to log, you know. Um and but then going back in this year, like the cuts are big. Like, oh, that's what they were doing in there. Um, you know, and like logging trucks everywhere. Uh so sometimes I I've been wanting to talk to Van Tassel about it because I I've been wanting to hunt the Aussie unit because I've got a 300 wind mag and I can reach out and touch bears. And so I want I very much want to do that. I just um I think that those cuts are bigger up there, or at least that's what I've heard through word of mouth and reading a lot. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

All right. Well, Dante, thank you for coming on the podcast. It was great catching up with you. And um glad you made it through and you um you can shoot a 380 when the trips are down.

SPEAKER_05 49:45

Yeah, I guess I know I guess I know that about myself. You learn a lot about yourself hunting. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Thanks for listening to this episode. You heard us talk about the book Black Bear Hunting by Gary Lewis and Lee Van Tassel, and that book is no longer in print, but you can find it on the used market. Uh, I just found it on eBay for $15.27. So it's there, and it's also available as an ebook. The publisher made it available there, too. So that's the way you can find that one if you need to get a hold of that book. And thanks again. We're gonna have a new episode up here shortly, and we appreciate you tuning in and listening.com. Thanks to our sponsors, Knozzler Incorporated, Warren's Gulf Mount, Camp Chef, Voodoo's area, Brest Lake Resort, Carson, that's Carson Oil, T SNS, Ward Madras, Procure Bakesets, the Dalles Area Chamber of Commerce, Spring Pilot, Aquas USA Smarts, West Coast Floats, Frontier Roast Coffee, High Desert Tactical, and Thanks for listening. Uh, we appreciate you out there, and uh, we want to bring you good conversations and tune in again soon. We're gonna have another episode up quick.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Hey, it's Baron. Listen, can we get together?