Hunting Hawaii for Axis Deer, Going Holo-Holo With Kahai

One of the best tasting meats in the world. That's what people say about axis deer. We hunt them in Hawaii, Texas and Florida (and a few other places). We're going holo-holo with my friend Kahai to talk axis deer hunting. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And now here's Gary Lewis. Next, next on Fox. But I undersold him when I said he was cogent. He's far beyond cogent. In fact, I think he's better than he's ever been intellectually, um, analytically.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

It's a podcast called Gary Lewis Outdoorsman. And here's where we talk about big game hunting around the West, around the world. You can't go further west than Hawaii. And that's where we're going with the conversation today. When you hunt in Hawaii, you don't just say, we're going hunting today. You when you do that, that informs the rocks and the trees who tell the other rocks in the trees and the animals might overhear, and they're going to be putting up their defenses. So instead, you say, we're going holo holo. And that means we're going out in the outdoors, we're going outside, we're going to see what happens. And so today we're going holo holo with Kahi Lindsay. Let's get right into it. And you found a podcast where we talk about big game hunting around the West, around the world. And today I'm joined by Kahae. Kahi, how's it going? It's going good. Now I forget your last name. Last name's Lindsay. Lindsay. Because in my vote, it just says Kahai. Just kind of like, you know, share. Yeah. You know, Madonna. Get the one name.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

One name's enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Gotcha. Okay. Um, yeah, you've kind of become a household word around here because we talked about you when you first called me, and I told my wife, you know, we might be we might be going and hunting Axis deer one of these days, and this is what it's going to be like, and you know, you're going to go with me. Yep. And then you brought over some Axis deer meat, so we're going to continue to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Everybody I brought some to. That's their next theme is how can I go get more? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Well seems to love it. It's it's really one of the best tasting meats in the world. And I would rather eat deer than just about anything else. I really do like bison meat. Bison meat's really good too. But but Axis Deer has this special sweet taste. And I started going to Hawaii a long time ago now, and I even toyed with the idea of writing a book about hunting in Hawaii. But it's such a diverse hunting culture that it's it's um I think it would really take somebody who grew up there to do it justice, and mostly the people who uh grew up there don't want to write about it.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah, that's that's a very good way to put it. Yeah, they're very protective of basically their resources, their refrigerator.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah. And the bird hunting there can be fabulous. Yep. All these upland game birds with nothing to kill them. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Feral cats. Feral cats. Feral cats is a is probably the biggest killer of them there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

My friend Bitsy had a bumper sticker on her car about um feral cats and how they tasted like chicken. And um she would get a lot of hate. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. She lived in Diamond Head. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And she would drop a feral cat at a you know, moment's notice with a shotgun. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She told me she'd killed a bunch of them. And she did it right on TV one time.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

When she was filming with a couple of ladies who were hunting, and they couldn't believe that she would just drop this cat.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah, the cats will get them. We got a a bunch of wild dogs as well. I from what I hear, the population's a little lower now. On the wild dogs?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, but they're still I had forgot about that. I was hunting on the big island and we heard wild dogs. And I remember Pat who I was hunting with, you know, said, you know, we do have to be ready if the wild dogs show up.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

And so that, you know, that's something that's true.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, one of the ranches we hunt on too is you know, you don't no dogs allowed. Um, and if you do see a dog, it's not supposed to be there. And you're on that ranch hunting, it's your job to take care of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

It's not supposed to be there.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

And okay. You grew up in Hawaii. Yep. You grew up on Maui. Maui. Okay. And you've hunted on Lanae and Molokai. Um. And then I've also hunted there and on Molokai also. And the first time was with Joey Joao. And Joey knew me because I called him. And we set this up in advance. We had a mutual friend. And he made it he where we went the first time, it was so easy. The deer were just showing up, you know, in the in the moment when we arrived, and and I had brought a 243. Okay. And he he said, you know, I wish you'd brought something heavier than this. And and um this I could see these antler tips coming up a wash, just the tips of the antlers. And then that buck turned around and went back in, and then he came back out again, and I killed him, but it was a different buck.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Oh there's a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I've seen a lot of that too, just because of the just the numbers of deer. But they're hyper-aware. So I've hunted Axis deer, Molokai, Lanay, and Texas. There's Axis deer in Florida, and there's Axis deer in other parts too. Yeah. And they are originally from India, from Hong Kong, and they were a gift to King Kamehameha and 1860s. Yes, eighteen sixties. And they were created to coexist with tigers. So they're hyper-aware. Yeah. And it doesn't matter where you find them, they are keen.

unknown 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

And so Joey said, I really like people to have a seven mag, seven millimeter magnum or bigger to anchor them so that they just go down. And you know, I yeah, I agree. Yeah. Because I feel the same way when we hunt black tails in Western Oregon, you want to really hit it well and hit it hard so that you don't have to go looking for it.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Yeah. My uncles that that taught me how to hunt, they're all 30 calibers and you know, 300s, 300 ultras, 300 whether be that kind of size. And don't need it necessarily, but their whole thing is bruise it, but you won't lose it. Mm-hmm. You know, you you hit them, they're gonna go down. I had one one of the two uncles got his brand new 270. Um, this is back and they probably in the 270 was still pretty, I don't want to say new because it's oh, 100 years old now or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but maybe 50 years ago. Um and hit the deer with the 270, it went down, walked over to it, and it was no no cameras on your phones at that time, no cell phones at that time. So he's got his little disposable camera, and he's spinning the dial, clicks a picture, the deer stands up, spinning, clicks another picture. He has pictures, developed pictures of this deer on the ground getting up and then running off, and his pack and his gun is a hundred yards behind me, and that was the last he shot at 270. And back to the back to the magnums after that for me. Oh, that's sad. And living out here now has kind of taught me a little different because at the time there it's the bigger the caliber, but not the bullet choice. It wasn't until I moved out here, which is pretty fairly recent, out to Oregon. Out to Oregon and learning more of bullet construction and that kind of how much of a difference that can make. The difference maker that bullet construction. On the animals, yeah. So I think if you had a little better bullet in that 270, that may not have happened.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Uh I'm not sure, but the last time I shot an Axis deer was in Texas. And I shot it straight on with a 7mm 08. And this was a Brand X bullet, and I had for some reason I had to set the gun aside that I had brought, or maybe I didn't have a gun on that hunt, and I was using one that they had let me allowed me to use, maybe that's what it was. And yeah, because I brought a lever action saddle gun for a pig hunt that we had been doing.

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah. So and I wasn't intending to shoot an axis deer, so I borrowed this gun, shot it straight on with this Brand X bullet, and I ended up having to pay a tracker with a dog team, and that axis buck went over two miles.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

I think I heard you talk about this in the other episode. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

That was that was good money spent. The dogs went right to it. The deer was dead. And I thought, oh yeah, it's just the same thing I always knew. And the the guy says, you know, your shot wasn't really bad.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

But bullet construction does matter, you know. And if I'd been using a nozzle partition in that same shot, it would have been a different outcome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Like a couple trips ago back home, um, my wife shot a buck. She shoots a 6'5 Creedmore. I know a lot of people feel about that, but we were shooting she's shooting on the ELDX bullet in that and hit the buck beautifully. See the impact, it's great. He goes maybe 50 yards, drops. Okay, cool. It's a quick hunt. We're 12 yards from the truck and shot the deer at 95 yards, something like that. Fast day, we're done. We go over there, deer gets up, runs and runs and runs and over a couple private properties over, so can't can't cross the fence. But okay, we gotta chop that up as a loss. And they got a lot longer, but she did end up shooting another buck, and we packed it out. Um, we came home and had our buddy Shannon Walker load up some Acubon Long Range for us and went back the following year back home and went two for two. Mother's Day, I shot a buck, she shot a buck, and so yeah, the acubons just sit them down.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

I really like that Acubon Long Range. Yeah. Okay, w we actually know each other because of Shannon, and that was an episode that um the the episode I did with Shannon was Black Tails, Bench Legs, Big Mule Deer Bucks, and the 27 Nozzle with Shannon Walker. That was episode 206. Yeah. And now here we are 40 episodes later. Okay. Now, um first, let's tell people who you are and where you're where you live now and what you do.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Uh Kahae. Um moved to Oregon in 2019. Things are just getting a little too expensive back on Maui, so they've been expensive for a long time. Yeah, yeah. And it's we'd like to move back at some point, but it's it's seems like it's getting further from being possible every year. Um yeah, we live in moved to Bend, um, lived there for about a year, and then we bought a place in Redmond now.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Redmond, Oregon.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah. What would you tell people uh what living in Oregon is like now that you've been here a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 14:07

I like it. Um being kidding from Hawaii and and growing up living off of the land.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Uh just uh outdoor access that there is in Oregon. Um you know, this time yesterday I was driving home from the coast from digging clams. Uh last weekend we were painting mushrooms, you know, there's we try to do everything we can to gather and hunt and you know, just live off the land as as best as we can in Oregon. You can do it. Yeah, you can. You can. You definitely have a lot of chances too. A lot of different, you know, yeah, you gotta stay within seasons and regulations and limits and stuff like that, which is kind of why we go for the purple varnish clams. Oh, okay. I don't really mess with razors too much, limits less, and taking the family out there and expecting everyone to go for a walk down the shoreline back and forth and whatnot, where with the varnished clams, we have a little beach we go to in Florence, and kids sit there digging sand castles and we picnic and come out with three limits of clams, which the varnished clams you get 72 and so you get a lot more clams per person. Per person, okay they're an invasive species. Oh, I see. Okay. So that's another reason to kind of take off an invasive species while we're at it. And yeah, that kind of goes back to, you know, being from Hawaii, because we have a lot of invasive invasive species out there, like the Axis deer and the sheep and the goats and the wild cattle and everything is an invasive species. Basically, yeah, yeah. We have a few fish that we would have um tournaments for, just eradication tournaments, just getting rid of invasive species.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, the goats uh can be a real problem too. The deer have been a problem at various times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

And the people would people would say, Well, why are you hunting in Hawaii? And and I'd say, well, why wouldn't I? And because you get off of the main road and you're back in a neighborhood, and you go past somebody's house and they've got deer heads tacked all over the barn. You know, this is just like growing up in in western Washington or or wherever. And these are my people. And there can be this um disconnect between the the resident in Hawaii and the visitor. And so I've had that thrown at me, but then as soon as we as soon as we get to know each other, then we're friends, you know, and because this whole hunting culture, we're actually connected in that way. And um like I've been on an airplane going island to island and meet somebody like you, and then being invited to go free diving and all these all these different things. And it's really it's really a great hunting culture there, a great sporting culture and subsistence culture also.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Yeah, I think it's a little more like like the hunting base, there's a little more subsistence-based and trophy-based. Well, there is, you know, you still have the guys that will, you know, they'll only shoot a buck if it's over 32 inches or or something like that. Um I'm more on the lines of just putting meat in the freezer.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah. My biggest axis was from Molokai, and I it was twenty-nine and a half inches. I've got it out there in my little cabin. Okay. Out there if we go out there later. Okay. Um what uh rifle and what bullet, if you're going on an axis hunt, what are you choosing for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

For myself. Ooh, for myself. Historically, 3006, 308 is what I've killed. I I'd like to say a couple hundred deer width, probably. Um but uh anything on the ranch or ranch guns in the truck were uh 223, 243. They're savage axis um in a youth stock, so it's a little shorter length of pull just to let it sit on the dashboard and grab real quick for the deer or dog or whatever you need to take care of. Um so shut a lot with those two, but primarily 308-306. Um again, that's just coming from the uncles that taught me that 30 cows are the way to go.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

And would you ever find yourself killing an axis and feeding a lot of people? Yeah. Um, with it. And so what how would you cook it then? Um if you had to if you had to feed a lot of people?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

How we do it in a lot of our our parties that we have back home, and our parties are like we have we call them baby parties, baby luaus. Um Hawaiian culture, if a baby makes it to one year old, they're greater chance that they're gonna make it the rest of their lives. Um so the our babies, one-year parties are huge. Big parties. Two, three hundred people. Yeah. Um, so we'd go out and get you know, the family would call around to the hunters they know, the fishermen they know, the divers, and you'd go out, whatever you get called for deer, you're gonna go out and you shoot as many deer as you can, you know, 13, 14, 15 deer.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

And we gotta we gotta mention do you guys don't have ri limits and restrictions? Correct.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

No tags, no limits, uh year-round open season. Um basically any caliber, they I wanna say it's two, two, three and up for for deer. Um birds have more regulations because they're federally protected. Um, so you gotta stick with the federal, whatever the game bird regulations are for those. Yeah. Okay, so we were as far as cooking them, um a lot of our parties will do like a teriyaki panko fried, like strip strips, um, or we smoke it. We cut we cut break the whole deer down into one inch by one inch by maybe foot-long strips, soak that in a sauce, and then we hang that in a smoker, smoke it through, and then that gets chopped up into like poke-sized tubes, and then fried in a wok. And then that gets you know put out on the line for the face style.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

That is my favorite ways to eat it.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

We've done it we've made um corned beef out of it. Oh, yeah, okay. We've corned beefed it, ribeye, or not ribeye, prime rib, kind of cut the prime rib out, make a roast. My favorite way of smoking it though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Interesting. Okay. Um what bullet do you end up what bullet do you like? We talked about the Acuban long run. Range, would that be your choice or something else?

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Right now, yeah. Right now I like to accubile long range. I haven't really dabbled into any of other bonded type bullets or anything like that. And of course, being close to Shannon, you know, I I stick with nozzle bullets right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Then when you were getting started and hunting with your uncles, what did they talk about for bullet placement? Um, right behind the shoulder.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Okay. Right behind the shoulder.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Um that's what Joey Joao told me, too. Yeah, right behind the shoulder. What I would always do anyway.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Or if they're head-onto you um access to you have that white square on the bottom of their neck and just below that. Okay. Yeah. They've got a few like that um archery as well, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Base of the neck.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

One of the fun things that we did when I was over there on a hunt in 2008 or 2009, something like that. I had I had one of the new Nozzler rifles. It was the third one ever made. And I borrowed it. It was a 308, and it had a XP serial number because it was experimental. Oh wow. And I wish I had, I wish they'd let me keep that rifle. I love that one. And I shot, I got so excited to talk about the rifle, forgot what I was doing with it. I was there on a goat hunt, sheep hunt combination. And well, I lost my train of thought. Oh, no, it what it was was um Hawaiian language class that I took at the hotel. And I, so my daughters and my wife and I, we went and we took a Hawaiian language class, and this guy comes down to teach it, and he is uh probably six foot two, probably 275 pounds, wearing a dress. Oh, you know?

SPEAKER_04 24:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

And so he taught us um how to speak the Hawaiian language, how to pronounce the words, and it was really fun. It was really a great moment that none of us will ever forget. On the big islet. Yeah. Yeah. Um this is the part of the episode where we ask you a few questions and we kind of check in with you, see where you are on a few things. So, like one being um you're against it. Okay. Ten, it's this is, you know, you're for it. So you could it's a kind of a sliding scale. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

And um so let's start with um. Feral cats. Where are you on feral cats?

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Ooh, maybe a zero. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

We just have a lot of uh native birds and native wildlife that have are very endangered or or extinct.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

And wildcats are a big problem for that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

And how old are you? Thirty-eight. Thirty-eight. Okay. Artificial intelligence. Where are you on? Artificial intelligence. Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

I'm probably the lower end of the two or three, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Okay, so you see there's some opportunity to use it. Yeah, but I don't know. Be careful. Yeah. Okay. I'm not, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

No, no, no. Yeah. I think I think there's there's some good that could be used there, but I feel like with technology like that, it'd be probably down the path of not as good.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah. I heard a guy speaking at a graduation um commencement, you know, address, and he said, you guys graduating from high school right now. It's gonna be your job to kill AI. Eradicate this from the human condition. Okay. All right. Ums drones to recover wounded animals.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

To recover wounded animals. I'd say that's I'd be for that.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

You know seven or eight.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

All right. Because there's probably times when you don't want to use them.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Yeah, and I think just be making any making all the effort you can to get the animal and not let it sit out there suffering, I think is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Fluoride in the water.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Ooh, zero.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Okay. We're drinking really, really pure water here today, except it's got some flavor in it. We're 600 feet down with this water. Nice. Okay. Um can social media be used for good?

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

I believe so.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

You want to put a number of I'll go, I'll go five. I think it's kind of right in the middle there. Okay. Electric bikes for hunting. I don't I don't have much experience with this. I I watched a few videos of guys going in. Have you have you ridden an electric bike? Yeah. Yeah. Not not the type that I've seen hunters use, you know, um other types of electric bikes. And they're quiet. They are. They are.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

And I don't And they leave very little impact.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

My hunting in in Hawaii, for example, there's no way I use an electric bike. There's just no, you know, our our jeeps can barely make it over the lava where we're going to be able to do it. Oh, yeah. So um quads could barely make it in some of the places.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So you can really wear out your shoes in a hurry.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

You even you try to get around a lava flow and you bump into another one and so I'd go I'll probably go middle of the road on that one too, just because I don't have much experience. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

I'll go I'll go five on the electric bikes.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Okay. Electric cars in general.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

They're not for me.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

I'd go three.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

You know, maybe I'll rent one in Portland or something for the weekend or you try to fit in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Okay. Um Dutch oven cooking. Ooh. Eleven.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah. We went up to my uncle's property up in halfway over the Memorial Day weekend, and my wife made a sweet and sour pork dish in a Dutch oven up there. And that was that was really good.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

That was really good.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

When when people hear that you're from Hawaii and that you're a hunter, do you get some surprised reactions?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah. Yeah. Um mo majority of them just don't realize that there's hunting there. Um I met a guy at uh Par Lumber in Bend picking up some stuff from work and I had my bow rack hat on. And I guess From Eugene. From Eugene. Yes, yeah. From um Lisa. Yeah. And he's Wayne and Dicott. Yep. Friend of the show. Good, good. He he was telling me that Wayne sold him his first bow as a as a teen teenager, and we got to talking, and uh I brought him some Axis deer into the shop. And the next time I seen him, he was he was ready to book a flight and go shoot once. I still got to talk with Jim. Jim over at Par. I'm gonna come see you.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

If somebody does want to look into hunting in Hawaii in general, what's a good place to start? Um I mean you can Google. It's changed a lot. The people that I hunted with are gone. Yeah. And it's different people now.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah, it's hard. It's it seems like everyone's a hunting guide over there right now. Um you got some guys that have access somewhere and are charging an arm and a leg for people to come to the city.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

It could be really expensive.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Yeah. Yeah. And that's I don't really agree with that. I don't, you know, we like I said, we have no tags. It's an abundance of animals. Yeah, we have too many animals, and I'm gonna charge somebody, you know, six thousand dollars to come shoot a deer is is crazy to me.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Um but that's kind of the price that so here's what here's what I would recommend to somebody. I would say go to whatever island it is that you want to go to, find the classic animal to hunt there on that island, try to lean into that, but then stop in at an archery store and make a big purchase. I would say go buy buy your crossbow, buy your recurve bow or compound or whatever it is, spend enough time to where you get to know them. Don't be an asshole.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

That's probably the main part. Um there's a lot of there's a lot of guys on the forums. Um I've I've taken a lot of guys hunting just from a Toyota forum because they've got a tab there for hunting. And hey, you know, heading to Hawaii, you know, anything to hunt out there? What can I look at? And if someone's so inclined, like I'd be I'd message them, like, hey, where where are you going? You know, you want some help? Here's my number. Give me a call when you're here, we'll figure something out. And, you know, take them out for the day. And they get to four-wheel in a Toyota and shoot at a deer.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

So a goat or a goat, or yeah, or you know, go fishing or sometimes you don't find the right situation until the last day, and so that means you gotta come back. So but you can you can meet and and make some make some friends, yeah. And then and then be a friend also, right? Like lots of times people that live in Hawaii want to go hunt in Colorado or or Oregon or or New York or whatever. So I mean, yeah, we can trade and share.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Yeah, I've definitely done that. I've had a few friends that have done that, taking guys that I've met out here, you know, because since I live here now, if if I can get it to where I'm home and somebody wants to come and meet me out there and go for a hunt or a fishing trip, sure, let's do it. Yeah. If I can't, and it's someone say that you know, or someone that I've met on a construction site out here, I'll put them in touch with some of my friends back home and let them work that out that way. And a couple of them are you know, they've gone every year now. Just just I'm building that friendship there and and being, yeah, the not the annoying tourist, but uh respectful and which brings up the term howli.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Okay. This is this is an interesting one because it means man without breath. Ha ole.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Ha is breath.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Oli is no right so and it's like a ghost and a nothing person.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

It can be, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

And so in that context knowing that it means it's a that name is applied because it's a person who doesn't have respect. I think it can be. And so you can be that you can be the howley or you can you don't have to be. That's kind of the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

It's yeah, or the or you know, the the howley or the effing howli. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, right. I think that's a good way to to differentiate it there.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Um the let's talk about the elite for a minute. Okay. Okay. These were the ruling class of the islands. And when you hear that term, what does that bring to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 36:03

The term elite? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Ancestors. Okay, ancestors. That's probably what first jumps into mind. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Um given the fact that I have Hawaiian blood, so that's kinda. That's my first thought when I hear that.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Okay. And it's been said that King Kamehameha and his family were large people. Okay, so we know like the last queen was large. And um but how tall w were those men? Do you have any insight into that?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Uh yeah, tall. Upper upper six feet. We've we've we've found bones in lava tubes on the ranch that were big. Big. Big seven feet. And taller. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Okay. Yeah. I think there were Hawaiians that were very, very big. And I think scary big to And some that were very little. And some that were little, right. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Was there a caste system that kept people kind of in their place? Back beef. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So there were the the ruling elite, and then there were the there were another class.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I don't I can't name off, you know, the names of the classes or there is definitely um uh times where you don't go outside, where you know your class had to do a certain thing. Um I know there's times where the during the new moon phase, at night you don't go outside. You stay inside. The warriors will walk paths around the islands, and if you're outside, you're not supposed to be here. And that's times where during the new moon, since it's so dark, islands and islands would paddle across like start war and stuff. So that's where they'd be. If you're outside at night during a new moon, you're here to do something bad, so you're getting taken care of.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Mm-hmm. A thing to know. Yeah. And there's still stuff that seems to linger from those days also. Okay. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. All right. Yeah. This is the kind of stuff I love talking about, but I can't get too deep into it because it kind of freaks me out a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

I yeah, I know what you mean. I've I've I've seen it, so I know I know exactly what you're thinking of.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah, I haven't seen it. Okay. Um I went to Lanae, I was in an Alaska Airlines um plane, I think. And so we're coming in slow and looking down on these maybe their old plantation roads or something.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Pineapple, pineapple plantation.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

And then a right smack in the middle of a red lava cinder road intersection is this Axis buck, and he he's standing and he's looking at the airplane as I'm flying in, and I'm thinking, yeah, I am so happy to be here. You know, and then uh whether I I don't remember whether I killed a buck that evening or it was the next evening, and I stayed with a guy um in in town and then hunted with Pat. And um I had just had sinus surgery, so I was recovering from that, and I it was the first time that I was able to smell something for a couple of years.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And I we go under the fence and into this just flat um forest land. Yeah, and you could probably picture the spot, and I smelled the deer. Yes. And the wind was blowing, and I said, Pat, I smelled the deer. He says, Yeah, oh yeah. But yeah, I mean, to me, I had a smell anything, and I'm so happy, you know. And so we did we weren't on this particular day, we weren't looking for a big buck. We were looking for a weird buck. Okay, yeah, and so he wouldn't we wouldn't shoot anything until the 97th deer that we saw was a slightly strange deer, and I killed it.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Oh wow. I I like I like weird, weird bucks. Um I found one that had three main beams.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

And maybe we should explain Okay. The the typical Axis deer has three points. And and it has you know brow tying and then beans.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

We call them eye guards in Hawaii. Um eye guards, you got your main beams. Um that's where we take a lot of our measurements off of is just the main beam. Yeah, the outside outside length of the longer of the main beams.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

Yeah. So when I say twenty-nine and a half, you know exactly what I'm talking about. That's how long the longest main beam was.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Yeah, yeah. Now with internet and social media and YouTube videos and stuff, I see guys adding the scores up. Um I've never done it, so I don't know what any of my past bucks would score. Um, my biggest is 34 and three-quarter.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Oh yeah, that's a big one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah, I've I've seen some bigger ones, sadly, but um, but like I said, I was never much into shooting bucks. So if if one was there, all right. If not, I don't have any problems taking a double or two. Um yeah, my I came across this triple beam, and it wasn't really a triple beam, but it was looking at me. His right beam at the base, there was just another almost look like like a like a spike elk kind of just coming up in the middle. And I was with my bow and it was I was still shooting my first compound bow and drew back, let the arrow fly, and halfway between me and the deer, a little branch hanging over the trail. Arrow clipped the branch, went down by his feet, and never seen him again.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

My last hunt in Hawaii was for goats. Okay. And I brought my recurve and I used an arrow that I shot pretty well that had been suggested to me that, you know, I use this real heavy.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

And it didn't work in my

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Application I missed a lot, which is not uncommon for me with if I if I had archery. But I had so much fun. Oh yeah. And then I come on a um one of those lava tubes, a hole in the ground.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And I thought, oh, there's gonna be a goat inside of this hole. I know there is because that's where I would go if I was a goat. And so I walked up and I looked down inside this hole, and there's a goat. He's up at me. And I thought, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this to you, buddy. And I let him get out and leave. It just didn't seem fair.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, archery for the axis is fun as well. Yeah. Um if you got time for it and you're looking for the fun, you know, they're fun. Because it, you know, you'll do a few hours stock to get close and win a switch and they'll bust out, or just the the amount of deer you're sneaking up to is the hard part too. There's a lot of eyes around, and like you said, they're very wary. So archery is fun for them. It's it's it's it's a lot like archery elk out here.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

I think if I had three days to do it, that would be that would be good. I think two days is good. If you would if you need to get your hunt done in a day, then probably want to hunt with a rifle. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah. Especially the guys out here, they they like shooting far, I feel like. Yeah, we have we have an issue with that. A lot of guys like shooting far. So and I've, you know, w without having limits or tags or anything like that, and being able to shoot deer year round. I I don't know how many deer I've shot. A couple hundred, probably. I don't remember my first deer. There's been so many. Um I've never shot one outside of 200 yards. Yeah. They were all inside of 200 yards, even inside of 100 yards, just because we're we're taught from kids to stalk. And we'll wear um, especially in archery, we'll wear tobies instead of boots. That's a we use it on the rocks. Um, it's a Japanese water sock, basically, with a with a felt or or spike bottom, but we use the felt bottom ones that will grip rocks, but they walk real quiet in the bushes. Oh, okay. Or or we'll take our shoes off and put two or three pairs of socks on and and you know, stalk that way. But yeah, even with rifle, we'll stalk into 80 yards, 90 yards and and shoot them there, which could be a problem if your bullet's not up to it and breaks apart instead of retains.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

On my trip um to the Big Island one year, I hunt with Pat and I had just come through a four-day long-range shooting school. I had all the equipment, had all the training, and I shot my pig at like 30 yards.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yep, exactly. One thing too, it was hard on on Maui to shoot far is just the wind. You got these trade winds that are blowing, you know. Right now it's probably blowing 35 miles an hour where we hunt.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

And all day?

SPEAKER_02 47:31

All day.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

So that's that's a tough one. If you're trying to shoot five, six hundred yards and 35 mile an hour crosswind, I don't I don't know many people that can pull that one off. So you start crawling.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Now, um, we were talking about the wind earlier before we started, and what you do for a living, um let's talk about that a little bit. Um case somebody here needs to find you and then tell how they can reach you.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Um I work for Shade on Demand and Classic Window Coverings. We're based out of Bend, but serve all of Central Oregon. Um and I run the exterior shading side of it. So exterior solar screens, motorized shades, um, motorized awnings, pergolas, motorized pergolas, and uh our interior side is classic window coverings and any kind of interior window coverings that you need. Um, we got it. Um office number. Give me the office number 541-388418. Very good. Tell them Kahais and you're very cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Okay. Um the wind. Okay. And so did you learn to shoot a rifle in the wind then? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Yeah. You learned to do everything in the wind. Okay. Cast fishing poles because our shoreline poles are 13 foot heavy action. Oh, right, yeah. With these big um 4-0 conventional reels. When my brother, I'm the oldest. Um, the youngest one just graduated high school this year. Um, so the one right above him, he's he's getting into fishing and spearfishing and stuff. And a lot of kids will try to go to like a baseball park or a football field to to practice casting these poles because it's flat and easy and really an easy place to practice. And then and then you get out to the fishing grounds, and there's no flat, grassy field to fish from. We're on lava, we're on cliffs, the wind's in your face, the waves are breaking. So I tell him you wait till the windiest day, then you go to your fishing spot and you practice casting into the wind. Same thing with hunting, um, same thing with archery, rifle. We practice shooting in the wind, practicing everything in the worst conditions. Yeah. So that when it is nice, it's a walk in the park.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah. I shot at the biggest buck I'd ever shot at. Um, it's been about four years ago now, Mule Deer. And I saw the bullet hit the rock right next to it. And I thought I was out of the wind because I had dropped down into a canyon. Uh-huh. And then when I saw the buck stand up, he was also in the canyon. So I thought my bullet was going to be traveling through this area of lesser wind. But at 303 yards with the 306, apparently there was enough wind, the bullet was traveling, you know, up and then it begins to drop.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

And so it was affected by the wind, even when I thought it wouldn't be. And so when I missed, I thought I'd pulled it. So I took the same hold, missed again.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Oh wow. Did you get a third shot on him? I did.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

I missed it again. Oh wow. By that time he was going. And uh, so I showed you my biggest mule deer when you were in the living room, and um, he was easily the next class up from that one.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Wow, wow. That's a big deer.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Yeah. And my best hunting partner was with me when it happened, too. So he got to feel my pain like I have felt his pain. So I got a question for you.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

I see a lot of and I don't know if it's the if it's the social media thing, but just the the gear that a lot of people use here in Oregon or in the West. I I drove in on a $5,000 Toyota out there.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

I would give you $5,000 for that right now. I mean, you could walk home. I'll put you $5,000 right now, you can walk home.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

I I I just paid that for that truck a couple months ago. But I'll drive you home. Seeing guys, guys are in the field with rifles that you know their scope is that much.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Right. And I just we don't where where does the Okay, so we don't need it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Okay. Right. And we were doing pretty good with the stuff that we had. Okay, and if you're still hunting with the stuff that was state of the art 20 years ago, you're fine. You know. But if you if you want to have it and you can afford it, and it gives you joy, and then you should. And and I don't want to take any of that away from anybody. And no, right. And I also feel like if you want to really learn to shoot, and shoot past 400 and 500 yards, and like right here, I uh this is my mile coin. Oh, okay. Okay. And um, so I like it too. But it makes you we know that these are better shooters because of the time that they take. I and in practice, like the the pe the competitors, the comp the competition shooting. Um love that. Um, but it doesn't you know your ability to stalk is what makes you a hunter. Right, right. And so you you do need to ask yourself, uh have I transitioned, you know, have I made the move from shooter to hunter? Because that is part of the journey. And if the things that you learn while you're a shooter make you a better hunter, then that's great. Um, I don't want to see people go from being hunters to shooters. That's like a step backwards.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah, yeah. Because like I I look at it like moving out here, we sold everything to make the move out here. Um with shipping costs and stuff like that. Rifles went, yeah, bows went, fishing gear went, everything went. What what we could carry on, you know, carry on is what came with us. Um so like right now, I don't I don't have a bow or a rifle. Um I bought a bow when we first came out here. Um bought my wife a Ruber American 6'5 Creedmoor and bought me a uh lower model white bow. I used to, before she and I met, it was the you know the rifles, I would stay on the low end. I like the savage axis. I've like I said, hundreds of deer with the savage axis never had a problem. $300 something dollars and comes with a scope on it, killed tons of meat. Um my bows, I would stay in the high end, the flagship bows, every you know, every other year or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 55:40

Moved out here about So you're one of those guys? For archery, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

For archery, yeah. And it was I think it was more keeping up with keeping up with my buddies. Yeah. Because my first compound bow was uh a package PSE bow from Bass Pro Shops, 350 bucks, release, arrows, sight, everything, and I've killed more deer with that bow than all my other bows.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

Can you still do that? Can you still go buy package bows like that?

unknown 56:13

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Yeah, I think so. I think so. That's I think that's still a good way to go.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Yeah, yeah. That's what I did with my wife. She has a diamond infinite edge and it uh rest, stabilizer, sight, everything's on there. And it can has a crazy range of draw lengths and weights. So I think I'm gonna steal that from her in September ago on a one-day elk hunt or something like that. Yeah. Um but so because moving out here, we got rid of everything. So in gaining gear back, we're frugal with it, you know, and she's got that Ruber American that our bunny sh our buddy Shannon handloaded for. He did a full ladder test, took the rifle to work, did a number on it, and it'll shoot three-quarters of an inch at a hundred yards. And I'll go shoot with some other guys at um one of my buddies who've had a brand new Christiansen, and he was shooting an inch and three-quarter. And I'm like, I got a six hundred dollar gun doing the making.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

It used to be that you couldn't you couldn't buy a gun for that kind of money that would shoot that well, but there's a lot of guns that you can buy now for for not too much money that shoot very, very well. Yep. And it's uh it's diminishing returns to spend a lot of money chasing another quarter of an inch of accuracy. But but again, if that's what you want to do, then that's great. And the technology is awesome, you know, love love it all. Did you feel like you had some culture shock when you brought your way of subsisting and you tried to make it work here? Oh yeah. Okay. So what was what was the biggest reality check for you?

SPEAKER_02 58:15

Um understanding the regulations. Not so much for the hunting, because that's fairly straightforward. The fishing blows my mind. Okay. Like uh fishing for salmon, for example, and you know, you go to a certain river and it's from this biomarker to this miomarker, you can use bait from this miomarker upstream to this point is artificial lures only, no soft or you know, it's soft plastics equals bait, which doesn't make sense when you're coming from you know different different way of looking at things. Yeah, exactly. That's that's probably the biggest, is just understanding the regulations and the fact that you have a window that you can do it in.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

Whereas we don't you know, Hawaii's fishing there's some fishing regulations. Um there's like two shoreline fish that have seasons. Other than that, there's size restrictions, but still very wide open. No licenses, no fees of that sort.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

So no What about being an elk hunter, you know, and deciding you you want to go be an elk hunter in Oregon? Is that hard?

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Um It depends how elk hunter you want to be. Yeah. I'm I'm okay with uh going out to the family property in halfway for Labor Day and doing a a one day in the mountains with my bow. And you know, I've come across elk each time, and it's up to me to blow a call and I shouldn't, or or do something like that to mess it up. But if you really want to be an elk hunter, I you you're putting in time. Yeah. You're putting in time. Yes. It's not a you know, you want to go shoot a an axis buck on Maui right now, Gary? We can in 35 minutes of you landing at that airport, I can have a deer in the back of the truck. Which here you're driving for hours. You're you're it's money and gas and gear and scouting and yeah, I don't I'm I'm still learning that side of it here for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

When I hunted a Molokai Joey, this is the second time I put a group together, some of my friends, um, people who could afford to go travel and bring their wives, and and we did this one-day hunt, and we get there, it's just breaking day, and Joey says, Today it's gonna be hard. And I thought, oh no. And it was, and John Milton, who was with us on that trip, said that was my Iron Man hunt. That was the one hunt of my life where it pushed me all the way. And he he went up a mountain and down a mountain by himself and up another mountain and came out on a different road at dusk, and he'd been out of water, you know, because and we're he's walking in the lava, his boots are ribbons. Uh-huh. And um I packed out my you know, I was by myself. We weren't hunting with guides. Joey just led us off, told us where they were going to be, and because we were all hunters, you know, he knew we could figure it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

And one guy didn't shoot a deer, and it was because he chose not to, you know, and then for me, I killed this buck, and um I did the gutless method, boned it out and put it in the pack and packed it back. And man, I was so happy to be back on the pavement. There was nothing easy that day.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, those you'll have times like that too, for sure. Um the last still a whole lot less walking than any walking I've done out here.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

I I put in more miles for morales out here than I do for deer back home.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

I came on this on this goat hunt where we archery hunted. I had a friend from Redmond with us, and he shot a goat. And so we were we got out onto the highway this, I think it was the next day, and policeman comes in, pulls in behind me, pulls me over. And I thought, well, that was weird. You know, I'm going 57 miles an hour. And he wrote me for two miles over the speed limit. And I had forgotten that on a lot of the islands they use their own cars. And this was a black Toyota four-runner. And he it was lifted. Yep. It looked like any of my friends' pickups. Yep. And he pulled me over. And when when he came up the rental car I was in, I mean, this was my bad because he I'm in a rental car and he knows what the rental cars look like. I mean, this is this is it just another day for him.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

So I rolled down the window so he could feel good about walking up on the car. I've got both hands on the steering wheel. And he says, Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Because he looks in, he sees my bow.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:51

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Which has I've had a recurved bow-and I had a quiver on the bow, which in Hawaii is considered a loaded weapon. A loaded weapon. And he's he says, roll that window up. I don't want to see that. Okay. And then I thought, oh, I am in for it now. And so I got written for two miles over. Yep. Yep. So that's a thing to be aware of. Oh, yeah. And the road. This was such a nice road. It was the Daniel in no way um highway. Yep. And it so this is a local politician who always got elected, and he got the most beautiful freeway or highway in the world ever made named after him. This is the most beautiful pavement, and I was going two miles over the speed limit.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

There's some nice sheep on that highway.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Do I feel do you sense some resentment?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

There could be. There could be. Yeah. I see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Yeah, we were hunting sheep that day. Yeah, there's there's a lot of sheep on that highway. There's um there seems to be a different way of looking at trespassing over there. Is that changing?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:09

Um I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

We like to I I would talk to people who old guys, and it it seemed like trespassing was a part of the sport.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

And I wasn't willing to do that myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Yeah, I don't think it's as much like that anymore. Um, but there was definitely, yeah, it's just kind of an unspoken. Yeah, you're not supposed to be in there, but that's where we're going. Uh huh. And when we leave, somebody else is gonna go in there. And tomorrow another person's gonna go in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

That was exactly what I heard.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

There'd be a few places where like the the cattle fed. will be cut and just tied back with wire. So when you pull up, you untie the wire, roll the fence open, drive in, tie it back up behind you, and yeah. As long as that's taken care of, they're they're okay. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. Because like even on Maui, the the deer will there's more deer than cattle. So the deer will overgraze and then the cattle won't have anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Okay. Anything else about hunting Hawaii that we might not have covered here that people should know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Hmm pants, t-shirt, and whatever weapon you're bringing, that's enough. Knee pads?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

No. I don't need it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

Yeah I like there's cactus. I remember picking up some cactus stickers in some places.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Yeah yeah yeah you have the Pinini cactus or the what do they call it? The prickly pear.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

What about the college pheasants? Have you shot any of them?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

No. Shot a few rignecks I'm not I wasn't too big into bird hunting um but some of my family is and they they're they're in the the bird hunting club so they go up and release the the Rignecks I want to say blue pheasant Goldens um Black Franklin Urkel Franklin Chucker Chucker quail. Quail. And our Chucker are so much easier to shoot than that Chucker out here again. I tried one year out in the Steens and it was what am I doing? It was steep and and they're laughing at you the whole time too you know they're they're chuckering at you and you go uphill at them and they fly down and so you go down and they run back up on Maui or Chucker on flat ground.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

Yeah I remember walking up to some chucker while I was on a on a sheep hunt. Yeah. Yeah. Okay well I love talking about it um I feel it coming on you know I feel another one happening um what about Maui and the recovery from the catastrophic fire um is how's that going?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

There's a lot of rebuilding happening our uh my dad's in the middle of rebuilding right now um what's hard right now for them is the everybody's rebuilding oh yeah okay so there's what lumber's coming in is going right out so waiting waiting for um lumbers trusses yeah materials and there's only so many builders so there's you're basically waiting in line and the price for everything is going up.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

I think right now to build a house is twelve hundred dollars a square feet oh man so you know what would have been a what was a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar house is you know you know one point nine just to build now oh man yeah that's rough okay well thanks for taking the time and and and coming out and thank you for the invite yeah it it's it's a real it's a really great place to travel to and to hunt and um you just gotta slow down try try to find what you want to do before you go but if you can't know that you might be setting it up for the next time and don't think that because you have enough money that people are going to do what you want them to do because it um it's it doesn't want to work that way there. And you can buy resentment while you're while you're buying yourself a hunt.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

Yeah or or you can buy uh you can buy a pretty expensive hike.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

That's right. Find our coffee our books our forage plans at Jerry LewisOutdoors dot com thanks to our sponsors Nasler Incorporated Warren Skulp Mount Camp Chef Voodoo Ski Area Crescent Lake Resort Carson that's Carson Oil TSNS Ford Madras Procure Base Sense the Dalles Area Chamber of Commerce Spring Pilot Aquas USA Smarts West Coast Floats Frontier Roast Coffee High Desert Tactical and Thanks for listening we appreciate you out there and we want to bring you good conversations and tune in again soon we're gonna have another episode up quick hey it's Baron we get together