Introduction

Introduction:

[background music] From Property, Unit trusts to the hottest Stocks, we got you covered. SAB, Zenzele Kabili shares, easy, own the market with Easy Equities.

Just just take some of your salary check buy a share. You'll learn very quickly what makes that company tick and what makes the market tick. Once you've got money skin in the game, you will make effort understanding. You’ll will pick up the annual report, you’ll go to the AGM and you'll pay attention and that's all you need to do. You learn things quickly.

Welcome to Easy Does It. A podcast by Easy Equities, where we simplify money and investing. No jargon. No complications. Your cool guide to investing.

Hmm Hmm Hmm… Thank you for pressing play on the Easy Does It podcast. Your cool guide to Investing. My name is Dj @Large. 

“Mostly below 10 cents is where listed companies on the JSE go to die but sometimes they are diamonds in the dirt.” This is an extract from an article on the Financial Mail that I came across a couple of months ago.
The article is all about Penny Stocks on the JSE to buy and those to avoid. And I found this article because I noticed some buzz, some hype on social media around Penny Stocks, in particular to do with Avenge, York Timber holdings and the Purple group.

And generally, over the last couple of years there's been excitement around Penny Stocks, they become quite attractive, you know to retail investors, especially first timers who want to enter the world of investing. So, today's episode is all about Penny Stocks. And I didn't have to search far and wide to find the perfect person to have this conversation with. To give us a Penny Stocks 101 right. So, it's the man who actually writ this article on the Financial Mail.

His name is Marc Hasenfuss. A financial journalist with more than 28 years of experience. He is currently the Editor-at-Large for the Financial Mail. A man who is absolutely obsessed with Penny Stocks and apparently vinyl’s too. So, from here on out, I'm gonna refer to him as the Penny Stock OG.

Interview:

Dj @Large: Marc, the Penny Stock OG, welcome to the Easy Does It podcast. 

Marc Hasenfuss: Thank you very much for having me on. 

Dj @Large: Awesome. So before we get into Penny Stocks 101. I've got a random money question for you. Looking back on your own personal investment journey. Are there any Penny Stocks that you regret not buying or holding? And I bring this up because recently on the investor webinar that was hosted by Financial Mail and Easy Equities, you mentioned Capitec, so I’m wondering if that's one of the ones that you regret?

Marc Hasenfuss: Absolutely. Unfortunately, I do remember writing an article about Capitec. I think the share might have gone down to 80 cents and saying look, this is pretty much a low risk option. You can buy it although at that stage. Small banks were just so out of favour, some of them have gone bankrupt; some of them fall apart, but geez 80 cents and think about it now. I mean, that's a life changer. I lost out on that one. There are so many more. I wish I could say that was the only one. But you know, you said 28 years, it's more than 33 years now. I've been around a long time and I'm still trudging along as a journalist. 

So you know, I've missed a lot of opportunities but you know, think back to companies like Bola MedCorp, it was low risk, you know, these things were trading at something sometimes 10 cents - great companies you could see from the very beginning good management - just no nonsense stuff and a solid operational base and good strategy and you know, kick myself for not buying [Bola MedCorp?] There was Ocean Diamond Mining. Oh my goodness, what a lovely company that actually found diamonds in the sea. These guys found them. They produced a whole lot of them. They eventually got sold at a huge profit, I missed out on that. 

And then I think of Steers which is now a famous brand. Clearly used to be 80 cents for so long. To look at this thing I think should have by it. And 80 cents, you think of famous brands had its problems lately, but still, at 80 cents, you'd have made so much money. That was another one. You know, more recently, there are recent ones, Nampak, it was a Penny Stock, I think it was under 50 cents. PPC is another one that dropped like hell and look at that now, it’s come back so quickly. That's easy, quick money. What else is there, ATN is another one that's a real classic penny stock one that's recovered and probably doubled or tripled in share price. So yeah, there are a few that I missed out on. The other one is Jubilee Platinum, how can I forget the mining ones. Jubilee Platinum - it looked like a wild shot! But these guys did deliver on strategy; delivered on their projects and they've done well. I was sceptical, kicking myself now.

[Laughter]

Dj @Large: I can hear the pain in your voice. Well, obviously, we're recording this episode, remotely. Where are you based, currently? 

Marc Hasenfuss: I'm sitting in a little place called Komiku, in the southern tip. Right past Cape point. And so I feel quite isolated sometimes. But I've been living here for a long time.

Dj @Large: Wow. Wonderful. I'm sure you’re spinning some vinyls there. I heard that you're an absolute vinyl junkie. How many vinyls do you have? What kind of music are you into, Marc?

Marc Hasenfuss: I've got about 3000 vinyls, unfortunately, I’m on the very outer limits of music. I like stuff like Sun Ra, Captain Beefheart. I like Miles Davis that might be a little more mainstream. John Coltrane, Frank Zappa. I love – genius. Captain Beefheart and I like the edgy guys like Lou Reed and Iggy Pop. I like Sly Stone and James Brown, stuff like that. 

Dj @Large: Absolutely lovely. I wanna rewind back to the beginning of your career as a journalist, how did you end up writing about finance, is it something that you were into all along?

[Laughter]

Marc Hasenfuss: I wasn't. I can assure you I wasn’t. When I left school, I wanted to go do psychology. I didn't do very well. So, I ended up doing journalism. And my idea was, I become a music critic for The Rolling Stone or doing cinema reviews. Then I lowered my expectations. I thought I’d work for Scope magazine which some of the older readers might remembers as being everyone's great magazine in those days. 

But the reality was when I finished university, I had a huge student loan hanging over my head. My mother kindly paid the interest, but I had to pay the stuff back. So, I had three job offers. I think one was the Weekly Mail in those days and The Star which everyone wanted to work for and Business Day. Somehow, Business Day paid double what the other guys paid. So, I thought, how bad could it be? They do have a political section and they do a little bit of general news. Maybe I can slip in there and pay back my loan, head off overseas, skip the army, skip conscription and go and work in New York or something. 

So, I went to Business Day and they insisted we do financial training. And I mean, I used to be so hungry cause I had no money and so hungover that I couldn't concentrate in those seminars they gave us about teaching us about finance. I kind of drifted off and didn't concentrate and I stuck with doing the late shifts where you did the Crime reporting and a little bit of Political reporting and avoided all the financial stuff. And then one day on a Sunday, the Sunday News desk guy didn’t rock up and I got thrown in the deep end, they said you've gotta cover the finance desk. Geez! I was panicking. So, I remember the first company review I ever did was a company called Faircape Holdings, it was a property company. So, I went to the library, it was an old physical library. I got out the old files and looked at the last story there was written and I basically copy that story but change the calculations and change this change it up a bit. I got it through, send it through and I thought my god, I hope this all works. I come Monday morning; the editor was Ken Owen. Ken you didn't mess with hey, fearsome guy. You just don't mess with Ken. And he called me to his office, and he had the paper open and my story. Oh, my goodness! Here we go, I am out of here. This is a good story, I said, ‘what’! He said you can write, you’re on the finance desk from now onwards. That was it! I went straight to the finance desk from that day onwards. 

But I got very lucky. I got given the motor industry. I grew up in Uitenhage, so I knew Volkswagen well and I got a very nice editor [Mick Collins?], and he kind of shifted me into it gradually. And you must remember one thing, I didn’t Maths at school, and I did Accounting in those days called standard grade. So, this is in the deep end. But you know, over the years, you learn things, you have to learn them.

Dj @Large: You know, firstly, you've got an incredible memory. I mean to remember the first ever article but also, you know, what you're saying is very important. You know, sometimes when it comes to finances and investing and saving and all of that, the expectation is that you need to be some sort of genius you know, mathematical genius, you need to know all your numbers. When really you just need to spend a little bit of time getting to know your money and doing a little bit of some research and some reading, which I think is really beautiful and that's the reason why I wanted to know your story in terms of how you got to where you are currently

Marc Hasenfuss: Yeah, look, I think the one thing that I've edited a couple of magazines in the past, I always used to say to the journalist, if you really want to get into it. Just take some of your salary check buy a share. You'll learn very quickly what makes that company tick and what makes the market tick. Once you've got money skin in the game, you will make effort understanding. You’ll will pick up the annual report you will the AGM and you'll pay attention and that's all you need to do. You learn things quickly.

Dj @Large: Now on to the Penny Stocks. I know everybody wants to hear about this. You know, Marc, I think a great place for us to start is, when you engaging people who are new to investing or retail investors who have a keen interest in Penny Stocks. What are some of the misconceptions that you come across? Can we debunk those before we actually get into what a Penny Stock Is?

Marc Hasenfuss: There's been a lot of hype around Penny Stocks for and it's not just lately, it's been decades. That people panting Penny Stocks. There is a myth that you can make money very quickly on a Penny Stock. Some reasoning if it’s shares is one cent you've got more chance of making money with a shared one rand which is not correct. Value’s value. But there is a certain attraction of Penny Stocks. They’re technically at a Penny Stock level for a reason. They've got a strategy wrong. They've got financial problems. Something's come unhinged. So as a recovery prospect, yes, sometimes these shares can come right, and is the price because people have just dumped because they're panicked. But what you got to do is you got to be realistic, you can't expect to make money sometimes you need a lot of patience, and that's the first thing you need to realize. You can’t throw your entire salary into a Penny Stock because it's not going to turn overnight. You need to be very circumspect, you need to have a proper portfolio that generates dividends. In fact, what I'd say is, use your dividends to buy Penny Stocks. Don't chase these things to the end of the world. They're very nice to have but be circumspect and be prudent. They take a long time, sometimes these I'm talking 10 years sometimes for something to get traction. And if they do, yes, they can be very rewarding. Absolutely agreed. But just keep a long term view.

Dj @Large: Yeah, I think there definitely is that misconception that you can make a lot of money very quickly. And it's not true. I absolutely love that you touched on that. For those, Marc, who are new to investing, I mean, what is an actual Penny Stock? I mean, what are it’s characteristics? 

Marc Hasenfuss: Classically, and this goes back to overseas, was a share in the tents 10 cents of 10 P or whatever it was. I think that's changed and I believe some markets - an offshore market – where a share goes to one cent, there’s enforced consolidation of that share. One cent, it can't go lower. And there was an example on the JCE many years ago, of a company – still around today – a company called John Daniel Containers – in a different form these days - but they had billions of shares issued at one Rand. So the company had a market cap of 50 million at one cent, but it couldn't go lower, but the company was probably worth less than 50 million. So, when they consolidate the shares, eventually it sure enough went back to one Rand because the company didn't have much value. So that's what you gotta be careful of, there is a value game at play all the time. For me a Penny Stock, these days, I'd say something under a Rand because if you look under a Rand, there's a certain type of share that's there. It’s a share where the market is not sure about. Either the market’s not interested in it or something's gone wrong. So, my Penny Stocks, I think, under a Rand is per definition for me. 

Dj @Large: Is that the only characteristics, the value of the share itself, or are there other things we can look for as well?

Marc Hasenfuss: Yes, I think in this instance it is because it's kind of lumping it in a value basket under a rand or under 10 cents.  In the Penny Stock universe there could be a variety of different companies you could define differently, I suppose. But for the purpose of this conversation, I guess you know, let's call it under a Rand is a Penny Stock. And I suppose the question is, Penny means cheap, it infers you could buy a lot of these things, which is sometimes what investors wanna do. You know, they sit with the Anglos or 10 Sasol’s or 5 Naspers. Quite nice say, well, I've got 50,000 Kibo energy shares. Trading at 5 cents but I’ve got 50,000 or I’ve got 500,000. So yes, it’s maybe something like that. A little bit of ego.

Dj @Large: Marc, what are the benefits and the pitfalls when it comes to Penny Stocks? There's just so much hype, which you correct has been going on for quite some time. But what are the actual benefits? And then what are the pitfalls of these Penny Stocks? 

Marc Hasenfuss: The big benefit, I think, is that when you're looking at a Penny Stock, you're probably looking at something where there's a value disconnect. Number one, it's probably hasn't got institutional following. So, you haven't got the professional asset managers buying or researching it. So the share can then really fall to crazy levels. Now, recently, ATN would be a good example, a little tech company and it fell to ridiculous levels. If you looked at one of their last acquisitions, there was probably a lot of value in the company because of what they're paid, even if they sold at half what they paid, many times the market cap. That's happened, they've sold that and now there's value being restored in that company. Sometimes the market gets it very wrong. But the pitfalls are you can't just buy something like that. You've got to research it. You've got to do your homework. It's the basic things that you apply to every shares. A Penny Stock’s no different to a Midcap, Blue Chip Stock, you will look at the cash flows. You have to. You have to look at the balance sheet can this company – if it’s creaking – can it creak for another few more years before it comes right or does it need to go to the markets - not easy to go to the market and your share’s at four cents – so you  gotta bear those things in mind. 

The other thing is management, people don't pay enough attention to management. You know, I'm not too worried about management that keep disappointing as long as they're honest, and open about what's happening. I can listen to the story but it's when guys come and they talk nonsense and it's this, we're gonna try this but it didn't work now we're trying this… You want some kind of some stability in the in the narrative from management so that's one thing to look for. And just look for honesty and they openly admit their mistakes, that’s not a bad thing least you know you’re in the picture as well. It’s when things kind of fluffed, I get a bit scared. 

The other thing is capital allocation, believe it or not, I think that's very critical in Penny Stocks because often what happens is whole business will get into trouble. And then they will try and diversify into something crazy like that they might be in into selling tires, they will decide ‘’no, we're going to go into clothing manufacturer because we found this wonderful business to buy and we think we shall diversify’’. Be careful of that kind of stuff. That's wild. It's crazy. Most of the time doesn't work. And it's a desperate tactic to kind of almost by time. You’ll buy something which you think this thing is gonna turn, and then it'll go down, you'll buy more. 

People tend to pass stories and that's scary because you can buy the story all the way down and sudden you find you've invested a lot of money in this thing. You can't get out. It's still going down. It's not an easy thing. And I think that's one of the important things, the stories. You've got to be so careful with stories because there are some wonderful stories out there. I'll go back to many years ago, I think this might have been late 90s, 2000s. A company called Whetstone came to the market. Very well-done Marketing campaign. They targeted certain people, especially in Cape Town. They had a proposal where it was the most amazing technology. They had a oil product called [Alpex?] and what they do is they put it on top of oil storage facilities, would prevent evaporation of oils. It would save oil companies a lot of money, and it worked! And they had a patent for it. People bought into the share. A little bit of research show that it would actually cost the oil companies more to keep; to actually maintain and buy this [Alpex?] product then rather just lose the oil through evaporation. So the business model never flew, but the share price went flying and it came collapsing down so hard. 

The stories of us are quite frightening. And some of them are very good. I mean, people will know Century City in Cape Town. That was a Penny Stock at one stage in a company called Monex and it was a good story because they're building this mega development. Christo Wiese, the famous investor, he was involved. How could it go wrong? This major shopping node and entertainment centre with Ratanga Junction. It went wrong and it got bought. It had to be rescued by Nedbank, then it was bought by HyProp for a song, now it's a wonderful operation. But it was probably too ahead of the curve, didn't work and you know it was wrong place, wrong time, I guess. As I say keep your head - don't lose your head. Try and look at numbers, be realistic. Visit plants if you have to, visit operations. You drive past if it’s a store, have a look how many people are in. Don't always believe the story because the stories are wonderful and the Penny Stock stories are the best of all, to be honest. Be prudent.

Dj @Large: Now I really love what you're sharing, because I think you know sometimes, we get caught up in the hype on social media about a specific Penny Stocks and all of a sudden we're all buying but we don't even know what the business does. We don't even know how it even landed up being a Penny Stocks. What are your thoughts on Social Media in particular, and the way that people are using it to sort of sometimes even push a Penny Stock into our faces? What are your thoughts on just social media in general when it comes to the discussions around Penny Stocks?

Marc Hasenfuss: Look, Social Media is incredibly powerful. I mean, Twitter alone, and I'm not huge on Social Media. I mean I think I do Twitter and Facebook kinda things. But on Twitter, I admit myself that someone tweets about a company, I’ll go and have a look. It does excite me. You can't dismiss the things. People are saying things, you have to quantify them. You don't have to qualify them. You just put them out there. And yes, you can elicit interest from a lot of people. And I think at the moment we've got another case of a lot of retail investors in the market. You know, we saw this in the late 90s as well. It blew up very badly, those retail investors disappeared very quickly. They got hurt! Now I'm not saying the same thing is going to happen here, I think people are a little more fair with the market, they’re a little more experienced but you do need to do your research. But be careful, people will tip things and where there’s tip, there’s a tap as they say. Someone might looking to offload shares. Just be sceptical. It's worth being sceptical. It really is.

Dj @Large: Rather just be safe than sorry. 

Marc Hasenfuss: Absolutely. 

Dj @Large: I wanna track back to that article I'd mentioned earlier on Marc. Which Penny Stocks on the JSE are you currently buying and avoiding at the moment? 

Marc Hasenfuss: At the moment, I've got a son at university. I have had to cut back a lot of activity because it cost me a lot of money. I don’t know what they do at university, but it really is expensive. Yes, I've got some stuff, it's very small. Aveng, I’ve had for a while. I do like Aveng. And I tell you why I like Avenge is: I do think management have been good there. I think they've been very honest. And I think they've done what they said they're going to do - in a orderly fashion. And I do like what they're doing. I don't know if I am too happy about 500 to one share consolidation. But yeah, it's a good company. You can see the operations are good, what’s left is good. They're running them well; they’re doing the best they can. So, Aveng is a nice little Penny Stock to have on hold. I'm not going to comment on whether it's worth anything at six cents but yeah, I have been nibbling away still, be that as it may. The other one I like - and this is a real long shot - and I'm gonna contradict everything I said, is a company called Kore Potash. It's got a potash deposit in the Congo. It's wild stuff. It's crazy. It's just up there. But the sense like it is they are delivering on the deliverables. They're getting things done. They got a webinar next week. I see I'm quite excited to see what's happening there. It's a long shot. Not gonna lie to you, but you know, it’s fun, it keeps me busy. Got something to look. Otherwise, I'm sitting with Remgro’s and Sabvest’s and Reinet’s and HCI’s - they stayed and boring! The other one I forgot is, weSizwe platinum. That's a new one for me. I had lunch with a friend the other day and he was talking about weSizwe and we had a little discussion about it and seems like they progressing quite well, getting their mine up and running. So, it's something you know, again, small, just looking at that. But otherwise, those are really the ones I am looking at the moment. There is so many I’d avoid. I don’t know if I should get started even but they're a lot.

[Laughter]

Dj @Large: Can you give me the reasons why you avoiding them?

Marc Hasenfuss: Just crazy stuff. It's promising the world-- it's trying to introduce acids that I suspect are not gonna be as good as they say they are. Some of them are just dead businesses. It's hopeless, hopeless case. It's leftover stuff from having to sell core assets. The other one is so [inaudible], can’t go there. And these are the couple I jotted down, but there's so many out there. Again, as I say when it's 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15 cents, there is a reason. Just find that reason, make sure you understand that reason before you go delving in and listening to the narrative. 

Dj @Large: For the benefit of our listeners.  Me and Mark can actually see each other on a laptop and the way he smiles, and he gets excited at Penny Stocks, it’s so interesting! And it just got me thinking, Marc, of some of the companies that you're investing on. Is there any that you've invested on just based on gut feeling? You know, cause sometimes you can do all the technical analysis and do all the research, but do you ever just say, mmm it feels good, it feels right?

Marc Hasenfuss: Yeah, look, I've got a rule and look, I'm a big rule breaker – my own rules. I'll be the first to admit that. But try and understand the company you’re investing in. So simple businesses make sense to me. And you should be able to understand most businesses. Now, the one business I still don't fully understand but I have invested there, but I've got a gut feel, and it's done very nicely. Is a company called Montauk resources. It's not a Penny Stock. It was close to a Penny Stock at one stage but it got unbundled out of HCI. It's a renewable energy company that makes gas electricity from landfill sites. And lately using animal manure as well, but it's just, I suppose a green investment I wanted to make up, I thought of for my kids. They went mad when I bought Coca Cola. They almost disowned me.  And then I had to admit I had British American Tobacco shares. And then I was in really big trouble. I mean, it was ugly, and they were forcing me to buy Tesla and I said, No, I'm not doing that. So, having a green investment is quite good, for the future. That’s a gut feel thing. 

The way they make money is through these renewable instruments. It's very technical, I don’t fully understand at all, but it's done nicely and it's in the right space. So yes, I do do that. 

There is one other company: Premier Fishing. It's a small fishing company, but it's got the Abalone farming, which I like because, number one: it's outside the sphere of the the quota system which is gonna change every year and means your quotas could change throw your whole business model out because you farming these things, so that's fine. So, I quite like it. And they've also got a squid business and I love my calamari. So, I know how nice it is, that's it. That's more of a gut feel investment. I can't read the fishing market. It's quite difficult but I like to be there. That is a Penny Stock by the way. I think it’s at about 85 cents or something. But yes, if you wanna be happy in the market - If a little Penny Stock or two or three keeps you happy, then do it. I mean that it is fun, but you might have to lose your pants, but make sure you've got your [Remgro?], your Raynette’s, your Bidvest’s, your Anglos, you know, as your stalwart investment. That very important. 

Dj @Large: I'm actually gonna put you on the spot, Marc. What are your thoughts on the Purple Group share?

Marc Hasenfuss: Purple group well, it’s gone up a lot. I've got a history with the Purple Group, a big history because I was buying when the company was still called Avasa. This is a long time ago. There were private equity guys involved then it morphed with Mark Barnes into Purple. I've been in and out. I wish I'd stayed in all the way, but it's been a long journey. It really has been long. But I think with Easy Equities, which I use, and I do think it's a great platform. I must say it's becoming a marketing sponsor, but it's not. I know, I speak to a lot of investors and suddenly more people are using it that they've got a good business there. And it is a retail investment client business. So, you need to build numbers. That's the important thing. From what I'm seeing is the deals they're getting it looks like they're getting traction. You know, I don't want to comment on the share price and where it is but it's expecting a lot but so far, they've delivered and you know, I can't say that I'm not impressed. They're doing very well. So, I wish I'd kind of held the Purple shares I had but as I say it was a long time ago.

Dj @Large: Thank you so much for sharing, you know, Marc apart from just reading pieces on the Financial Mail. I mean, how do people keep in touch with you? I know on Twitter in particular, if you're not, you know talking a little bit about music, you are talking about a little bit about Penny Stocks. Are you on Facebook as well?

Marc Hasenfuss: Yes, I'm on Twitter. I must declare I don’t tweet that often. I kinda sometimes feel the environment is quite hostiles. So, I kinda keep my head under the parapet.  But I am there, and guys are welcome to contact me through Twitter. If they can just DM me and follow me, I always follow back. My email is on the articles. I happily engage with investors. In fact, I love doing it. I love it when guys email me, you know. I always say just phone me and let’s talk because I love talking to the investors because it gives me a guide on where I can write, and what people are interested in. I want to hit my target market. I also edit Investor’s Monthly which is a supplement to the FM and its very much investment focused. So, I need to know what shares people are interested because you want to want to get them interested. And say well, It’s on our cover.  We've got these shares covered this edition. So yeah, I love engaging. People are welcome to contact me at any time. It really is a pleasure to deal with them and I don't mind doing that. 

Dj @Large: Awesome! Two quick things before I let you go, going into 2022 Is there any specific Penny Stock that you are paying attention to?

Marc Hasenfuss: There's one I’m paying attention to; it might be called a morbid fascination but I kinda got a feeling this one is actually want to watch it. It's called Advanced Health, so they do the day clinics or the day hospitals. So, if you need your tonsils out, you don't wanna have an overnight stay in the hospital. There whisk skip tonsils out and off you go. You don't stay overnight, or you get your minor knee surgery done or ear surgery. They haven't got traction in South Africa, yet again, maybe a little bit ahead of the curve. But you know the way we're going towards affordable health they do seem to be in the right place. That said, it's not like Mediclinic and Netcare and Life or let these guys eat their lunch. So, they're going to come in and have they've got their own day operations as well. But these guys are specialist’s day operators, think they might build enough of a operational platform to make money. They've got an Australian business which is profitable, and I'm just watching them out of interest. Because I kind of think the guys behind it, [Karl Grinberg?], he was [inaudible] made originally which was bought by one of the big hospital groups in the past. He knows what he's doing. He’s no fool. So, I'm just kinda watching that and thinking that's an interesting one to be because they communicate well with the market as well which is very important. They give you a clearer picture of what's happened so you can make your own decisions you know, as it progressive so that that's just the one I'm watching but as I say morbid fascination more than putting money into.

Dj @Large: And lastly just your words of encouragement and maybe even caution to first time investors that are definitely considering Penny Stocks.

Marc Hasenfuss: Whatever you do, don't put your life savings in. Do it by all means. It's fun. It's great. You will learn. In fact, You’ll probably learn the best lessons with companies that don't do that well. You learned very quickly, but make sure it's money you can afford to lose. So, don't blow the household money for the month. That's not gonna to be good. But you know. The nice thing about Easy Equities you can buy these things, you can buy small holdings, keeps you interested even if it's R5000, R500, it will keep you into it, you don’t want to lose it. So, do it. What the heck! 

Dj @Large: Awesome. That's what we do on Easy Does It. Your cool guide to investing. Penny Stocks 101 with the OG himself, Marc. You can catch him on Financial Mail. He’s on Twitter, he loves to interact with us and perhaps, you know, towards the beginning of the year he'll give us some tips, some tricks, some things to think about going into the new year. Marc, thank you so much for hanging out with us on the Easy Does It podcast.

Marc Hasenfuss: My absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Easy does It. That's how we do. A big shout out to you for hanging out with us. Don't forget to subscribe. We are on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Let us know what you think of this episode on Twitter and Insta. Our handle is @EasyEquities.