Dismantling the Growth vs. Impact Mindset with Mark Hubbard of Renew Ventures

When we think of venture capital, let's be honest, we think about the #1 goal being to make money. That's all well and good, but why don't we just as readily think of venture capital amplifying positive impact? The unfortunate reality is that many people view these two things as at odds with each other. You can either focus on making a lot of money or making a positive impact in the world. What can't it be both? 

In this episode, we sit down with Mark Hubbard, Managing Partner at Renew Capital. Mark and his team are on a mission to dismantle the "growth vs. impact" mindset and remove barriers to capital for bold, diverse founders looking to generate impact at scale. By leading with empathy, Renew Capital is committed to investing in women and historically excluded founders solving some of  society's biggest challenges.

Tune in to hear Mark's perspective on how the startup and investment landscape is changing, his advice for founders, and more.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Mark Hubbard

💡 What he does: He's the managing partner of Renew Venture Capital.

💡 Company: Renew Venture Capital

💡 Noteworthy: Mark has either founded, invested in, or mentored thousands of enterprises — from startups to global corporations — in his almost 30 years in venture capital, global private equity, and institutional asset management. He has directed billions of dollars of capital, launched one of China's most successful asset management JVs, founded a global private equity firm, and built innovation centers for cities and states.

💡 Where to find Mark: LinkedIn

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Connect with our cohosts Richard Simms & Carlos Gonzalez on Linkedin

Transcript

E661389B_22 - TT - Digital Footprint - Mark Hubbard

[00:01:00] Richard Simms: Hello, and welcome to The Digital Footprint, I'm Richard Simms, this podcast is brought to you by Tyrannosaurus Tech, an award-winning technology partner dedicated to designing and developing high-impact software products. Today we're joined by Mark Hubbard, Managing Partner at Renew Venture Capital. Very excited to have you on the show, Mark.

[00:01:22] Mark Hubbard: Thank you, thanks very much, thanks for having me, although I don't like being on video, but thank, thank you for having me anyway.

[00:01:27] Richard Simms: But we got you. So, yeah, I, I was thinking when I reached out to you about this, I probably first met you seven or eight years ago.

[00:01:35] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, I dunno, at least, probably.

[00:01:37] Richard Simms: It's been quite a while, I'm, I'm really glad we've kept in touch, of course, and you've given me a lot of good advice over the years and just been a good guy to know in the startup tech innovation scene.

[00:01:48] So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to digging in with you today and just talking a bit about what you're working on, your focus on supporting impact-driven founders, and kind of how you got to, to where you are today.

[00:02:01] Mark Hubbard: Great, you know, I'm ex, I mean, excited to be here, and, uh, I mean, same with you, I, I have, I've been impressed with you over the decade or so that I've known you, and it's been fun to watch, you know, all of the success up until, in, in, including the building of this, of this company.

[00:02:14] Richard Simms: Well, thank you, yeah, it's been, uh, quite an adventure as I know your career has been too, so. So, so, to kick things off, can you just briefly introduce yourself and, and tell us a little bit about Renew Venture Capital?

[00:02:29] Mark Hubbard: Sure. So, I am, I mean, I sort of talk at broader kind of platform levels, first, I guess. I come from VC private equities where that world institutionalized management for the past 30 years, I guess, since I was in grade school, and, uh, um, and, uh, and then for the past 20 years, so years, really, almost 25 probably now,

[00:02:50] I've been involved in the impact space and for all my personal projects. And so, I am sort of in the process of, and all the things I'm doing right now are in the service of trying to blend those things together, right? In a way that I haven't sort of been able to do before, sometimes maybe you only get that opportunity when, when you get older like me.

[00:03:08] But to start, to start integrating more of what I say I believe about the world and what I value and with where my time goes and with where my money goes and with how I make my money, I mean, I think we're in the midst of a bit of a global trend in that way where folks would like to lead more integrated lives than maybe they have in the past.

[00:03:24] And so, all of the stuff I'm doing is really just an effort to try to make those things happen, make it all come together, to make some kind of difference in the world, I suppose.

[00:03:33] Richard Simms: For sure. I, I love it, and, obviously, I think you're right about kind of the broader trend, and I think that a lot of people increasingly just wanna really identify with the impact they're having, whatever capacity that is in, right? Even if they're working in a more traditional or very financially-driven field.

[00:03:53] I think that's increasingly important for folks just feeling fulfilled and inspired by what they're doing. So, obviously sounds like with Renew it's a very different paradigm than a, a typical VC, and on the website, I like that it says, "It's time to dismantle growth versus impact." So, you know, I wanted you to, like, expand on that a little bit,

[00:04:14] I mean, I think that, of course, I've always viewed as most people would VCs as being, you know, very laser-focused on financial returns, of course, above all else, it's kind of inherited the name of the type of business, but I, I just want to, yeah, kind of have you expand on that idea and, like, how you're seeking to shake up the mold a little bit about what a, a VC can be.

[00:04:39] Mark Hubbard: Sure. So, I guess let's, first, I'll talk about what we fund, right? And then that'll give you an idea of sort of how it fits in the marketplace. We really fund along two themes, they're, they're backed up by invest, investment these, right? They are backed up by the idea that we feel like these are places to make money, that these are maybe the best places to make money over the next 30 years or so.

[00:04:56] But those two themes are, one, we invest in impact companies that wanna be big companies, right? They want to grow big and be profitable and also do a lot of good in the world at the same time, but where impact is sort of at the core of what they do. So, no bolt-ons, no one for ones, the bigger it gets, the more impact there is.

[00:05:11] Those founders can be anybody, so that can be a white dude, that's fine, you know, any kind of founder can found that company, and, and we'll look at backing it. We also fund women and historically excluded founders.

[00:05:24] Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:24] Mark Hubbard: And those companies don't have to be pure impact plays, right? Because there's impact in trying to open up this asset class to people who have been sort of just summarily, you know, excluded from it over the decades.

[00:05:36] I mean, I dunno if you know those numbers, but, but when you look at, at women founders and historically excluded founders, the percentages of capital flows, you know, the venture capital industry, you know, almost don't exist, they're in the, you know, 2% to 3% kind of ranges, depending on the category you pick.

[00:05:50] And that's not, you know, a, it's not okay, I would argue it's not okay, but it also means that there's just vast amounts of opportunity that's, that's being missed by the industry, right? So, that's how we define impact, right? Impact companies making a difference in the world,

[00:06:03] and then backing founders that are historically shut out of the marketplace. I don't see any reason why, you know, part of what I, part of what we're able to do, because we're early stage, right, is that I can kick a lot of those, a lot of those questions about trade-offs away because we can be really selective, right, at the stage that we're at.

[00:06:22] Those, those arguments are built off the idea that that's where opportunity is, where that's where you can make money, right, going forward, that employees at places that are driven by purpose will be more motivated and more productive than they would other places, right? That, that people who've had to overcome being excluded in the past, you know, work harder, if you, if you wanna find founders that are willing to run through walls, right?

[00:06:43] And, and drag things into existence that didn't exist before, these are the kind of people who are able to do that, right, in markets that aren't necessarily recognized yet, where there's a, a vast opportunity that, that other people aren't pursuing yet, it makes sense. So, I, I don't buy the idea that there needs to be, that we need to even talk about a trade-off,

[00:07:03] I don't even really understand where that, where that comes from, and I don't think most founders that meet those categories now, particularly, maybe younger ones, feel that either, they don't, they don't feel that sense of trade off at all, they just wanna build something, you know, big and successful that's financially transformative for them and their employees, and, and to also do a bunch of good in the world at the same time.

[00:07:23] Richard Simms: Yeah, that's awesome, that makes a lot of sense. So, I'm, I'm right there with you, like, I think just shaking off the, the overly simplistic view that you're either focused on doing good, or making money, obviously we know those things can be blended in a, in a really nice way. So, so, it sounds, like, if I'm understanding correctly, you know, you all view impact somewhat broadly and, and I think in a good way,

[00:07:46] like, it could be a startup focused on something specifically impact-driven, and it's also just opening up opportunities for, you know, founders that typically are not represented, don't have access to that kind of support, those resources, and just impacting, like, the broader, you know, world or business community with, with that effort as well.

[00:08:10] Awesome. So, when I was kind of looking at you-all's website, like, you obviously talk about social impact, you know, looks like you're interested in healthcare, green technology, FinTech, like you said, I'm sure you all get to have, like, pretty open view, which is great, you're not overly restricted by particular industry necessarily, but can you speak generally to just some of the industries that interest you and, you know, what kind of innovation you're super excited about supporting in those spaces?

[00:08:41] Mark Hubbard: Sure. So, if you're on the, I mean, we are industry agnostic, like you said, and if you're on the impact side, that can fall into all kinds of different categories, right? Certainly, anything clean tech, it falls into that, but there's AgTech and FinTech and femtech, and, I mean, look, it, it is a, within, uh, Renew, within the venture capital, piece of the, of sort of the larger platform,

[00:09:01] it is an illiquid, you know, term-bound vehicle, that's how venture funds are developed, they're 10-year funds, and they're illiquid, right? You don't just, can't just put your money in and take it back out. And so, and so, therefore, you have to find investments, right, that have a, both a return structure and a timeframe and all of that, right?

[00:09:17] That fits within the context of the idea that this needs to be returned at some point, sometime within that timeframe, right, before the thing ends, and, and so, that does limit sort of what you tend to, to, and you'll, and by the way, you have the money that you have, right? You have the money that you raise in the fund, and then the money you're able to help sort of

[00:09:33] gather from other places, from other funds, from other parts of the ecosystem, but that's it, and, and so, those things need to be usually relatively capital efficient, right? Because, because you want them to be able to make as much success as possible, as much progress as possible over whatever timeframe that's required, but one that fits within, you know, a timeframe for you and your investors, and not get to a point where you just say, "I can't write anymore money," and you need a bunch more money,

[00:09:55] and so now we're just stuck, right? And so, those tend to be tech companies, they don't have to be, doesn't have to be that purely, but those tend to be technology, you know, and often software companies that, that we look at. But beyond that, like you said, and then when you get over to the founder side, the women and historically excluded founders, uh, yeah, those can be anything, right?

[00:10:12] So, we don't even have to sort of stick with them, I mean, they can't be destructive, we're not gonna work to counter to the, to the nature of the rest of the fund, but it even broadens, you know, more into, into what we can look at, the ch, the challenge in the industry is if you're one of those founders, and by the way, those two worlds tend to have a lot of overlap, right?

[00:10:29] But if you're one of those founders, the challenge has been that, you know, you need, you, you would like to build a product and grow a company that's profitable and that grows quickly that's, you know, sometimes important and rewarding, and, and so, the venture world is built to help you do that,

[00:10:43] I mean, the venture world's great at that, you know, world-class at helping you sometimes some of it, helping you build great products, right? Do, do the kinds of things that you're involved in, right? That help people build really great products that delight customer bases and achieve product-market fit and, you know, all that stuff.

[00:10:57] The challenge is that the venture capital world has taken what you just said, they took a good thing, which is risk-adjusted, you know, payment of risk, just a return, return on investment, like, that's needed, it's needed in an economic system, you can't just burn up resources and throw them away. So, that's a good thing.

[00:11:11] The, the challenge is if you make that the only thing that matters, then you know that good thing becomes an ultimate things, and stuff starts to break. And so, you start pushing externalities, and you start treating your employees badly, and you start treating your suppliers badly, and you treat the environment badly and the communities you're involved in, right, out of, out of a moral sense,

[00:11:29] right? Of, of the highest moral, moral, you know, compass is that I return the most capital as possible. And so, if I'm a founder, that's scary, right? If I also have some kind of purpose, 'cause that purpose could probably be kicked from time to time out the window in order to make a little more money, right?

[00:11:44] So, then I can go to sort of this institutional, an impact investing world, which is, you know, incredible and awesome and amazing and can help me with all kinds of things, like, uh, metrics, right? And governance and being responsible and tracking and reporting and, you know, great defining capital that's maybe non-dilutive and, right?

[00:12:03] All that's really helpful, the challenge is that, that the, in general, the, the impact investing world took mission, which is a good thing, and I obviously believe in, right? And made it an ultimate thing, made it the only thing that mattered. And so, therefore, sometimes they don't even want you to grow, you know, they probably would never want you to exit 'cause exits come with compromise, and then things don't continue on the way they, right,

[00:12:24] like, how many times you've heard stories, even if you don't have anything to do with impact, you've heard about Ben and Jerry's or you've heard about the Whole Foods, or. So, they wouldn't want you to exit, which is an issue, a problem, and by the way, often they don't really know how to, like, grow a product or grow a tech company or, you know, and so what do I, what do I do?

[00:12:39] So, the industry needs more folks that are as competent and dedicated to, to growth and product and, you know, all of that, as they are to mission and impact, and that those two things don't have to, you know, constantly take hold, sway over one another to serve these, what I think are probably the best founders of the next couple decades.

[00:13:00] Richard Simms: Awesome, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, one thing I really like about just kind of what I read about Renew is there's a lot of focus on empathy, right? And this, this is kind of right up our alley or my alley, 'cause I think a great product is, of course, built to serve the user, to understand their needs, their pain points, to make their lives better.

[00:13:23] And I just wanted to see, like, can you talk a little bit about your thoughts on this and how this perspective that you have and your partners differs from some of what you see out there in the tech world, or,

[00:13:36] Mark Hubbard: Hmm, hmm.

[00:13:37] Richard Simms: again, more traditional investment firms, et cetera?

[00:13:41] Mark Hubbard: Sure, I mean, I wou, I don't, I wouldn't have anything negative to say about it, about the traditional, mean, whatever, people have their own, own opinions and usually reputations are earned for good reason. You will see a lot of stuff on the site from us about empathy, every, everybody at the firm is certainly driven by that, and I'm driven by that.

[00:13:57] My father, the story I usually tells, you know, my father was a theater professor, and so I grew up in the theater, I grew up on to hundreds, thousands of shows, um, and theater's really just an empathy machine, that's what it is, that's what it's, that's what it's supposed, supposed to do.

[00:14:11] And so, so frankly, to a fault, quite frankly, I am emphatic and, um, but I do think that's the core of, of most, a lot of success in life, certainly most success in business, it is the core of building products, right? Like, that's what you, and yet, we tend to shift it, right? And distort it,

[00:14:30] I mean, really that "Renewed" name comes from that idea that we want to take some of these things, like, some of the activities that occur in, in the venture world and other parts in business, and sort of renew them back to what we think maybe the original idea was, right? And so, product development, you know, is an interesting one,

[00:14:46] um, I mean, it was started by me and Paul, and Paul's the best product person I've ever known, right? Paul's my college roommate and went and, you know, did the Disney and Techstars and ran product for big startups and was the Head of Designer Procter & Gamble before we started this. And so, he's a, you know, a real UX/UI, real designer, real product person.

[00:15:04] And so, move fast and break, right, as an approach to building things, something, right? There's a version of that, that means empathy, right? There's a version of that that where move fast and break things means don't, you know, don't be precious with your stuff and, like, radically empathize with your users,

[00:15:20] move faster than you would want to in order to get things in front of them, break things so that they can serve the greater purpose of what that user wants to, to accomplish, right? And yet there's also a version of that when you make move fast and break things, again, like an ultimate thing, like the only thing that matters, right?

[00:15:35] Eventually over time that becomes Facebook, it becomes, you know, putting in algorithms that, you know, that that encouraged strong emotions and, and then putting, you know, bad content in front of people, right? Like, that, but that's because you were moving fast and breaking things all the time, right?

[00:15:50] And so, that, that renewing, that idea back to sort of a more empathic focus is what we do, but it, by the, and by the way, you'll hear that a lot from funding sources, and you'll hear a lot from other founders, right, about this idea of being empathic with founders and being, part of my job, I mean, funds are two-sided marketplaces,

[00:16:07] I've spent 30 years as a zealous asset for investors. I also have to be empathic with investors, right? We have a whole, and specifically, what we're doing, there's a whole world of investors right now, uh, who in some ways don't know their right hand from their left, like, who, who really want to embark on some effort to combine what they say they believe about the world, right?

[00:16:25] Or, or things that they value with the things that their money makes possible in it, but they don't, they haven't been given a lot of good options to do that, right, they haven't been, in fact, you know, there's been even some scandalous kinds of options to do that. And so, right, that also, right, we have to drive empathy towards our, towards our investors for the, for the same reason,

[00:16:43] but it really does need to be sort of that cornerstone of, of all activity, I think for most things to be, I mean, successful is a weird, weird word, right? Like, you can do things in a horrible way and be super successful if it's only about making money, uh, yeah, if it's, if it's some larger purpose than just that, then yeah, I think it needs to be the core for real success.

[00:17:02] Richard Simms: Yeah, I love it, and, uh, you know, even in our day-to-day, I think we, in a healthy way do a lot of trying to steer people back to thinking about the user and, like, really what the goal is to help them with because it's easy to get fixated on the technology or, you know, the future vision with a large feature set, or even some of the, you know, or premature, like, "Oh, what do we need to do to raise money?"

[00:17:29] It's like, "Well, first, you need to really understand these people and, and if you're really providing real value for them." Okay, so.

[00:17:37] Mark Hubbard: I agree, I agree.

[00:17:39] Richard Simms: Yeah, I hope so. So, pivoting, pivoting a little bit, you look to have a great team with Renew, right? I think there's six different partners, um, have different backgrounds,

[00:17:49] you obviously mentioned Paul, who it sounds like you've worked with for a long time. So, tell me a little bit about how you teamed up with the other partners in the firm, like, what's kind of the array of skill sets, you know, how do you all complement each other? Is it kind of different roles? Like, I'm just curious how the, the group came, came together.

[00:18:07] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, well, look, we're sort of trying to build an institution here and so, and, and we're trying to push, you know, we're trying to model what I feel like the industry should be like, right, to my, my argument, my opinion of what I think the, how I think the industry should go forward. And so, Paul and I have known each other since college but hadn't had a chance to work together.

[00:18:26] And so, this was, you know, sort of a thrilling opportunity, finally, to get a chance to actually collaborate with him. And what would normally happen, you know, in the, in the fund world, on the fund front is that, you know, e, economic, for what everybody thinks of venture capital, economics of a fund, one, which this is, right, of emerging management, are not great,

[00:18:44] like, you, you don't, you don't get rich right away, you know, becoming a, a venture capitalist, launching a new firm, that's just not how it works. And so, um, so what would normally happen is that the two of us, right, those two exactly the same age, middle-aged white guys with facial hair and black glasses, would launch this impact firm, right?

[00:19:01] As allies, I guess, and I think we could have done fine, I think we could have done well that way, but it just, like, it, a, I don't, you know, we, we could not have actually performed up to the level that I feel like we should perform, and it also wouldn't have been the right thing to do. And so, yeah, we spent seven months, eight months putting together a team, and now we're,

[00:19:20] you know, 60% women, and, you know, amongst us all, it's a very diverse group, uh, Asian and immigrant, and so I'm really thankful to be, have been able to put together a team like that that can, uh, step into the marketplace and embody, you know, actually authentically embody, uh, um, what we wanna accomplish and who we wanna work with, right, in a way that isn't really usual, probably for the venture capital space.

[00:19:43] Richard Simms: Right. Well, and I'm, I'm sure, yeah, as you're bringing folks in, or early-stage founders, obviously it's good for them to see, you know, a diverse group of partners who have different backgrounds, and that that's what...

[00:19:57] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, and it's not just, look, it's, it's, um, you weren't saying this, but on occasion when I've talked to folks, I have had people say things like, is, yeah, no, I think that's really important, you know, even for optics.

[00:20:09] Richard Simms: Right, like, it's just an optics thing, yeah.

[00:20:10] Mark Hubbard: Right, which I, which makes me wanna throw a chair through a window, uh, no, the truth is, look, we, we, um, you know, the, the investment argument be, behind the backing of women and historically excluded founders, right,

[00:20:20] is, is that if genius is remotely, you know, evenly distributed at all, right, and opportunity is not, and there's whole classes of people, right? I mean, even you just go with women, I think more than half the population, right? Who have just been, just shut out, right? 2%, 3% of funding flows,

[00:20:37] it just doesn't make any sense. Then there ought to be massive opportunities in there, right? That other people can't see, that people without those backgrounds and people without those insights and, you know, just frankly won't see, and success in venture capital is almost exclusively, um, seen tams, seen addressable markets that other people can't see.

[00:20:58] I mean, name a huge outcome that everybody loves, right? And it's basically an exercise and seeing a market that other people couldn't see, whether that's Airbnb or Uber or, or Coinbase even, right? Those are all markets that people really didn't even see, maybe even the founders in some ways didn't see initially.

[00:21:14] Richard Simms: Right.

[00:21:15] Mark Hubbard: That's where real success comes from. And so, I don't need, you know, I, I don't need Natalia J. Rose, or how to be, to, like, look like a good thing, you know, for folks that would wanna do business with us to, to help them trust me, you know, the old white guy more, I mean, it's, I don't, at some level, I suppose that's great, great, you know, 

[00:21:36] Richard Simms: If I feel like I'm, that's all, all bad's, not like... 

[00:21:38] Mark Hubbard: that's a bad thing, it's, it's just, I need them, like, I need them, I need them as people, I, I need who they are to be a part of this thing so that they can see things I can't see. So, that, so, that when we get a founder that I say, "Yeah, I don't know,

[00:21:51] that doesn't really, I don't even think, I, I don't even think that's probably a very big market." Right? They could slap me upside the head, and say, "With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about, and if, you know, you had a different background and life experience, and maybe you would see this, but here's what the real opportunity is." Like, I need those people to be as valuable, or more as I am to, to the fund, to

[00:22:11] our investors, to our founders. Yeah, on top of the fact that they can, yes, identify with people who, um, and connect with people in ways that I can't, right? We've all been sort of fingerprinted so that we can connect with various people in various ways, but, but yeah, I think it's, it's really truthfully more fundamental than that.

[00:22:29] Richard Simms: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. So, for you, and I, I suppose the other partners, like, what's your day-to-day like? I mean, are you large, you know, are you the guys sitting in pitch meetings? Are you crunching the numbers? Is it all the above? Everyone just wears a lot of hats, and, you know, are you all kind of carved out more specific roles within the firm, or how's that at this stage?

[00:22:51] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, I mean there's basically two ways that funds operate and, again, we're an emerging manager, and every, we put everybody into the GP, which is, again, sort of unheard of, usually you have, you know, a bunch of associates and stuff, right, that you bring along, and we just, we wanted all, everybody involved in this to be a check writer, right?

[00:23:08] To be at that level, to be doing the things we just talked about. Um, so, one thing you do is run sort of basically, you know, partner book businesses, so, so you'll see some funds that have three GPs, and each of them basically runs their own fund, really, right, like, they fund-raise money, but they all, they each run their own portfolio,

[00:23:25] they all, each do most of their own deal flow, they have somebody that helps 'em do that, probably, right, but is, but, um, and they'll argue that that's, you know, that's the key to success is being able to take decisive action and, right, as, as if you've never made a bad decision on your own, and maybe that could be

[00:23:39] my hobby at times. Uh, and so, no, so we are, we're all co-founders, that's how we've talked about it from the beginning, um, and so we all do everything, and so we all solicit, you know, investors, and deal with investors and talk to investors and, I mean, we, we cover different parts of how that works, right?

[00:23:55] What they wanna call, I mean, I'm sort of the, I do tend to be the institutional management guy, right? But everybody does that, and everybody meets with founders, and everybody hears pitches, and every, everybody makes decision, our decisions we make by consensus, and that's, you know, that's, that's a feature, not a bug.

[00:24:09] Again, I need, I need the inside of the other people, I don't need to just be making all of those decisions on, on my own, right? Like, it's great that on their own, they would make good decisions with their portion of whatever is happening. In the meantime, I'm not gaining anything in my decision-making from their, from their unique perspective.

[00:24:24] And so, that doesn't make any sense to me, why you would organize things that way. And so, yeah, so we all do all of it, and funds are, funds are two-sided marketplaces, so, you know, we, you always need more great founders and, and, um, and you always need more investors, and that's just part of it,

[00:24:41] you'll, you know, when I decided I was gonna do this, I guess I decided I'm raising money for the rest of my life. And so, yeah, that's what the, that's, that's what the, we're in the midst of, but yeah, it's, it's all, all, all activity all the time. And then, yeah, then you leverage, you know, other people with various expertise, maybe outside the firm to help you process certain things if you, if you need particular insights.

[00:25:00] Richard Simms: Yeah, okay, yeah, very cool. So, you and Paul also run Pixel Recess, right? A venture studio. So, tell us what, what is a venture studio? Like, what does that mean exactly?

[00:25:14] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, I don't, it's not a, I mean, venture studios are weird because they're a thing now, right? Like, you can say "venture studio," and people, and people are like, "Oh, yeah, I know what venture studio is." Um, but there is no, like, there is no definition for what venture studio is, and they're all completely different from one another, right?

[00:25:28] So, whatever, whatever anybody's particular idea of it is, is the, like, the one interaction they've had with one, I mean, wildly different, right? Uh, uh, yeah. So, we, we, look, Paul, Paul and I, like I said, started this, and we started with Pixel. So, we started with basically a design and product studio, I mean, when you look at Paul and I, Paul's, like I said, the best product person I've ever known.

[00:25:46] So, the, the how to build something, right, in the sort of large sense of how, right? How to build something is him, and I'm very, like, what to build, right? I'm strategy, go to market and seeing the trend and all that stuff, right? And both of those are deeply important, right? Both the how to build the thing and, and what are we

[00:26:05] building, right? You already just talking about that, that you guys do that a lot, like, try to refocus people on, like, what actually needs to happen and what, what do we need to build and then make sure we build it in the right way. And so, and so, what happens is if you're, if you have any kind of reputation at all, is potentially being able to invest in something, you will get a lot of out, you know, deal flow,

[00:26:24] you get a lot of people that come, like, to talk to you, and so, very often those people are in the process of raising money, they're founders that we love, and their ideas that may be great, right, that they could be a real thing. And every time they do a meeting with a venture capital firm, they hear, um, I, you know, I like you a lot,

[00:26:40] I think this is great, I, I think you need to prove a few more things, right, or before this is probably possible. And you look at some of those people, and you say, you know, truthfully, I think we probably need to prove a more, a few more things before this is possible with other people's money, right? Before institutions start to write you checks with other people's money.

[00:26:57] And so, that's how we, you know, that's how we develop the Venture Studio is, is to say if we have somebody that maybe we would even like for renew, right? Like, would, would like to, I can't write them an institutional check, they're not ready for that, but we wanna come alongside them and help them get ready for that,

[00:27:10] right? To get ready for that market to help them grow because you end up in this gap, I mean, you've seen people all the time, I'm sure you get, you get pitched by people who want you to dev, right, without being able to pay,

[00:27:20] Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:21] Mark Hubbard: right? All the time, I'm sure, because people get in that hole where they, where they say, "I know I need to make this progress, I need to get the people that will help me make that progress." Those people cost money, so therefore I need the money to get the people to make the progress that will then make you give me the money, like, so what do I, fit in that hole? And so, that's where that sits, right, is where our ability to be able to come alongside folks and support them in that way.

[00:27:46] Um, how we do, how you do that then, like, the, the mechanisms is, you know, I, I could, if you really wanted to hear how our space, I could describe it to you, I think we've done something unique, something really interesting, uh, support founders at that stage, you know, for where they are, but venture studios, in general, could be anything.

[00:28:01] Some, some do lots of dev and then some, some, like, say we wanna be 50% founders, like, that's part of what it is, some are majority founders, if you come to them with an idea, right, and they're gonna do the whole thing. Some say 20%, like, that's what we'll do because we're gonna do a bunch of dev, and then, you know, we don't come in anywhere near any of those,

[00:28:19] we're much more sort of at the accelerator level of ownership, but we do own part of the company when we do that because it's a way to, you know, to help them make real progress, and we'll be around for years, I mean, we tell people all the time when they come into the Venture Studio, like, we're not vendors,

[00:28:33] right, right? And we're not employees, you really couldn't afford either one of those, um, but we're partners, like, we're investors, we're lead investors, quite frankly. So, and we're gonna be around for however long it takes.

[00:28:45] Richard Simms: Yeah, well, I think it's cool, and I, I mean, I like that you all are so close to product, you know? May I, I, I'm sure that a lot of VCs have some of that internal knowledge, but I just imagine that most aren't tuned in to really understanding users and product in necessarily the deepest way. So, I, I really like that from, from where I'm sitting, you know? So

[00:29:07] Mark Hubbard: Or they, or they don't wanna take the time to do that either, I mean, look, the, everything that we do across the whole platform, 'cause, so, Pixel exists at the earliest stage, uh, Renew can be early-stage institutional capital, right? Institutional investment, um, and then we have, like, a big, we have syndicates,

[00:29:22] you can do larger follow on some individual accredited investors, right, groups of, uh, of individual credit investors. And then, we're about to launch something called Purpose Rounds, which is a huge na, national effort built around our founders, right? The kind of founders that we, that we fund, and helping them raise institutional-level money.

[00:29:39] So, up to 75 million dollars from non-accredited investors. So, from their, their communities, right? From their customers and their communities, to transform those folks into owners and advocates. And by the way get 30 million dollars or 10 million dollars or 50 million dollars, right, of expansion capital that allows you to take the business to sort of a whole new level.

[00:29:58] And so, that's the, that's the full sort of scope of the platform for us, but that means I gotta do a whole bunch of work, I mean, you know?

[00:30:05] Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:06] Mark Hubbard: And there's a lot of people, right? I don't, you know, I don't judge anybody, but, I mean, I came out of large institutional finance where the, where very often the goal was to, like, keep your head down, you know, don't call too much attention to yourself and play as much golf as possible.

[00:30:18] And, I mean, that's fine, lots of people make a lot of money and, and live their lives that way and, you know, good for them, but I, I just, I'm not wired that way. And so, yeah, it means we work a whole lot harder than other folks, but that's okay.

[00:30:30] Richard Simms: Yeah, awesome. So, yeah, changing topics a little bit, you know, the, the financial markets have been, uh, all over the place recently, right? There's a lot of disruption, a lot of unknowns, like, how do these shifts affect your perspectives or investment strategies with Renew, you know, just curious, like, what high level you think when you look at the landscape going into next year and, you know, do you think it's gonna be harder for startups to raise money for the foreseeable future? Just curious your thoughts on how that affects, affects your day-to-day.

[00:31:05] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, uh, yeah, yeah, I mean, it is, it is hard now, and it's gonna be hard, and folks, you know, you just sort of have to accept that, right, right, it feels like, because things are difficult, right? It feels like there's a whole bunch of things to get mad about, like, being mad about the fact that, you know, everybody in funding told you to do one thing, and two weeks later they

[00:31:27] told you that that thing is wrong, and the opposite is true, right? And so, I'm like, you know, grow at all costs and get as many users and don't worry about making money and, right, and two weeks later it's, I don't, I don't care about, I don't care about growth at all costs, what are you talking about? You need to get default alive and, right,

[00:31:43] and yet the truth is, uh, everything functions within some kind of system, and within the system before the two-week shift, that was the right advice, you know, and within the system post-two-week shift, that's the, it changed, the world, the world change, it's frustrating that it can change that fast in the capital market, can, it changes that fast and you either adjust to that change, right, or you die, or you get yourself in a capital crunch, and you can't fund the business or whatever it is, right?

[00:32:08] And so, um, and so, there isn't even really anybody to be angry at about that. For us, for me, I mean, I think you can tell from talking to me, like, we're active managers, we're not, there was so much we can, we could go into macroeconomics if you want, but there was so much money, right? Sloshing around the system for the two years, let's say, prior to earlier this year

[00:32:29] Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:30] Mark Hubbard: that the venture capital world became just a momentum world, really, truthfully. Like, it, it was the only skill was getting into a deal basically that mattered, right? Could, could, could you get into a deal, and then you just, you know, consistently push and push and push through the markups, right? 'Cause there was so much money, everybody had so much money, Tiger Global had so much money, and there was no consequence to any of that,

[00:32:52] and, and that's fine, um, when that all constricts in that there's not a bunch of free money anymore, like, there is now, right? Then that's not the, just, you know, that's not the way things operate anymore, and now you have to do due diligence in a way that you didn't before, and now you maybe have to actively manage in a way that you didn't before.

[00:33:10] And, and so, for us, like, that's a, that's not a bad thing, like, that's a, that's a good thing, that's how we operate, like, we're the, we're the ones who are told we're working too hard the rest of the time, what's wrong with you? Right? And then, in times like this, people are, "Oh, you, oh, you do it, right?" Well, same thing, right?

[00:33:25] We went from a shift to being dumb and, and working too hard to being geniuses right now, same kind of shift, so, for us, it's not a bad thing, and by the way, also, if you're gonna launch a, any kind of new effort, right? This is a good time to do it, I mean, if you're an investor, for instance, and you have any kind of dry powder, this is when returns are made,

[00:33:43] they're not, they're not made, you know, during that other cycle, like, the, the, it's nice for us to not have a big portfolio of already priced assets, right, that are now getting marked down, like, that's a, that's a good thing 'cause I don't feel good about it, that it's happening to other people, but that's a, um, that's an okay thing for us, right?

[00:34:01] And that means that when we invest now, we get to invest at those more sane, you know, lower valuations, and we get to exit on the other side of the cycle, and maybe when it gets crazy, again, like, it all goes in cycles, usually the really great funds, right? And the great managers are ones that are super active in these kinds of times, smartly and strategically, and, that are active right now, not, not the ones that sort of shut down right now, and so,

[00:34:24] so, yes, it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard, valuations aren't gonna be what people want, it's gonna be really difficult to raise money, but, you know, then things, like, the reggae thing that, you know, the purpose rounds thing that we're about to launch, where you can raise money from communities becomes more important,

[00:34:37] uh, non-diluted capital becomes more important, and having investors who really want to work hard to shepherd you through those times is also really important, and all that's good for us.

[00:34:49] Richard Simms: For sure, for sure, that's super interesting. So, you know, for startups that are looking to stand out kind of in this environment, attempting to raise money very early stage, yeah, like, how do you think they can stand out now, to your point, is it kind of back to fundamentals, like, really focus on proving product market fit, like, actually being at a point where you're generating some kind of revenue, like, really the fundamentals versus, again, like, just focusing on adoption or growth or users, you know, what, what would you kind of recommend for folks that are trying to adjust their, um, their pitch, if you will, in the, the new environment?

[00:35:28] Mark Hubbard: Huh, yeah, I mean, it's weird 'cause those things aren't, aren't really dichotomies, right? Like, they're all part of the same spectrum, I mean, the re, the reason you push so hard for users and adoption, right? So, that you can learn to make the product better and have a big, big user base and a big market position that you can leverage in a way that makes you money.

[00:35:44] And if you're in an environment where there's lots of investor money that can just flow in and therefore I can spend a lot of money to make that happen and not, and be able to push the monetization piece back a little bit, right, a little bit down the road, that's a good environment for, for me to operate that way.

[00:35:59] Like, that's probably the way to operate, right, and that world. The challenge is if you can't, if, if that, if that investor capital is not just gonna keep flowing into you, which is the issue now, like, you're not gonna be able to just raise another $30 million, you know, in six months, then the company has to live,

[00:36:14] right, the company has to survive at least until the next time capital flows a little better. And so, it's not that anything actually changed, right? Like, you're still, you're still just trying to build a real business, I mean, you shouldn't be doing any of it if you're playing some kind of weird startup theater game,

[00:36:28] in any form, right, whether that's, like, the, the, like, event and selfie version of that, right? To pretend that I make myself feel like I'm a founder, right? Or if it's the, like, growth at all costs without actually caring about a business piece, like, if you're good, you're always just trying to build a good business, it's just what resources do I have to build that business and therefore how do I have to approach the, the way I go after it?

[00:36:50] Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:51] Mark Hubbard: And so, just like before, like, building a really great business is what will make you stand out, it's just that right now, if you're gonna write, I mean, just think about it from anybody, from your own perspective, if you're gonna write a check to somebody else,

[00:37:05] and that check was gonna run out, you know, in six months, and you can't see a way that, that, that if that company can't raise again six months from now, that they can probably survive because they haven't made whatever shifts they have to make in order to be able to kind of be default alive and, and still grow it at some rate, right? Still become a, a good business and then, yeah, you won't wanna write that check just, just because you won't, for, it's not good for you or for them, right,

[00:37:30] to end up in that situation. And so, that's the, so, you have to show that you, you know, it is valuable to show that you understand that there has been a shift, and probably for some folks they'll have to, like, accept that, uh, that valuations won't be what they want it to be, that maybe they're gonna, you know, maybe they will need to raise some money, but they're probably gonna have to raise it at the same, maybe the same level they raised it the last time, even though they've made some progress in the business.

[00:37:53] You know, all that stuff is, is difficult to swallow and, and so, being strategic and smart and thoughtful about all that, investors love all that, they just wanna see that you're a serious person, like, running a, trying to build a serious business, that's all anybody actually, actually wants, right? Uh, so, yeah, so, I don't know that it shifts all that much, but, but it, you know what, what shows that you're a serious person will shift based on all kinds of things.

[00:38:14] Richard Simms: Yeah, yeah, well, that's all, that's all good advice. So, with Renew, or Pixel Recess, like, what have been, you know, some of the biggest challenges that you all have faced thus far in all of this? I'm sure there's a lot as with any business or organization, but what stands out to you?

[00:38:35] Mark Hubbard: Biggest challenge is don't make me show weakness in public, um, yeah, I, I, look, uh, all of it, I mean, look, doing anything is hard.

[00:38:45] Richard Simms: Startups are hard?

[00:38:46] Mark Hubbard: Yeah, I mean, doing anything, you know, bringing anything into existence, you know, that didn't exist before is a very difficult, often soul sucking thing that makes you, like, evaluate all the things you value in life and where you find your identity and, right,

[00:39:00] it makes you to work through all that stuff, it forces you into all of that so that you're not in the field position, and that's true, by the way, right? Like, it depends on how you're wired, but certainly the way I'm wired, that's true, even if you're spectacularly successful, right? Like, that doesn't mean things aren't going well, I'm one of those people that resets the baseline, you know, at every single, you know, uh, achievement.

[00:39:20] Richard Simms: Right.

[00:39:20] Mark Hubbard: Each, each thing that gets achieved is now just something that exists, right? And so, I'm at zero all, all the time, that's how I tend to 

[00:39:28] Richard Simms: Right, right. 

[00:39:29] Mark Hubbard: operate. So, someone can look from the outside and say, "Oh my gosh, you've been so spectacularly successful, that's so incredible." And I'll feel like, "Oh, no, I'm, no, we're total failures, and we have just, just 'cause we're waiting to achieve whatever the next thing is that will become the new baseline." 

[00:39:42] But all of it is, I mean, building team is difficult, and team dynamics is difficult and, you know, any, anything when you're trying to build things in the world, and, look, we're in the midst of the same kind of capital crunch that, you know, you mentioned the founders are in.

[00:39:54] And so, raising money becomes a different kind of discussion, I think we're, you know, we're particularly well positioned in that way, but still it's, you know, folks are much more reticent to write checks than they, they did the same thing, right? They give money to anybody before, before, uh, and so, uh, so all of it is, is challenging, quite frankly.

[00:40:12] But, but it's all, that's, I mean, that's part of why it's important, that it's something rewarding, right? I, um, because otherwise, you know, yeah, it would and you wouldn't do any of it, I mean, I tell founders all the time, what, the advice I'll give you is you walk out the door, right? Is that, however hard you think this is gonna be?

[00:40:31] You know, I don't know, it's five times as hard, it'll be ten times, and when it's, and, and when you're on the other side of it, you may say, I don't know that I would've done it, and I know how hard it would be. Go do it, but like, go do it anyway, but just know that that's, that you'll, you'll remember I said that at some point and go, "Gosh, it's way harder." And that, um, so, yeah, all, all, all things are like that.

[00:40:52] Richard Simms: I love it, yeah, and I think it's very true. Um, so, last question, you know, when you think about Renew five years from now, ten years from now, the impact you all hope to have kind of through supporting these founders and these impact-driven organizations, like, what does that look like? What, you know, what is it that motivates you to kind of help you power through the, the day to day and some of those challenges?

[00:41:18] Mark Hubbard: I, I mean, I guess I would tie it into the advice I give folks, too, like, every time I'm asked to give advice on a panel or something, I always say the same thing. So, don't, now you don't have to come to my panel, if I'm showing up somewhere, uh, look, we're, 'cause we're trying to build an institution here that does some good in the world.

[00:41:35] So, I'd like for that to happen, right? I'd like for us to build a large institution that, that is able to make a difference in a lot of people's lives, but you know what I realized, and it's not like this is deeply insightful, but what I, what I realized after what was probably what most people would've called a failure once a long time ago, uh, that probably looked like a success, is that, you know, what, whatever this thing is that is all consuming right now, it probably is, right?

[00:42:03] Particularly if you're a startup founder, like, it sort of is all you can think about often, and it's, like, all-consuming in your life, right? And it seems like it will, it like, this is, this is my life now, um, that thing will be over, completely over, like, you won't have anything to do with it, probably, you know, who knows when, maybe two years from now, maybe seven years from now, but probably not

[00:42:23] much more than, like, ten years, right? I mean, not very often do you, you know, continue on in that thing for, even if it's wildly successful, right, you don't, you don't con, you're not the one there for, for the next 20 years, hardly ever. So, that thing will be over, and you will at that moment either, like, have less money than you did when you started, or maybe you'll have a lot more money than you did when you started, and that will be fine,

[00:42:44] and, you know, money can do a lot of good things for yourself and good things in the world and all that, that, like, I get that, but the truth is you'll look around and realize at that moment that actually the only thing you have right then is whatever relationships you built intended over the course of that thing,

[00:43:00] and that there really isn't anything else, I mean, money's great, but just in your bank account doesn't, you know, whether you have anybody to text at that moment, you know, whether you actually have any, any friends at that moment, um, is really the only thing that you're building that whole time along, that you're going along.

[00:43:17] Like, that's, that's what it gives you is, like, this leverage of being able to build a real business like that, right, is this leveraged opportunity to, to, like, connect humanly with, with all kinds of people, maybe all kinds of people you never would've had exposure to before, maybe on a scale you never would've had possible before,

[00:43:32] and if all you, if you don't tend to that, if you don't make that a priority while you do it, you'll be sitting in that chair, you know, and the only person I talk to is the person that runs your family office, you know, 'cause he says you've got $150 million, and that's great and all, but that's, you know, often not as good as somebody that you can text, who loves you.

[00:43:52] And so, it's not, like, that's an all, you know, it's not an all or nothing thing, it just means you have to pay attention to it, and, um, and you have to, to attend it and, and care for it or it won't happen, and, and you will regret it, even if you're rich, you'll regret it afterward.

[00:44:06] Richard Simms: Yeah, I think that's very good perspective and very true and, you know, I think even a lot of folks who've had tremendous success will obviously attest to that, that, you know, that big day comes, and you cash out for X, Y, Z and that feels great, you know, but a few days later it's kind of, you know, real world, you're still there, and you still have some of the same, you know, anxieties or needs or, you know, so, I'm right

[00:44:32] Mark Hubbard: And by the way, you feel like you can't ever trust anybody again, 'cause now you can buy, now you can buy all the friends you want.

[00:44:36] Richard Simms: Right. So, I think it's good, you gotta, 

[00:44:39] Mark Hubbard: So, it's not how, like, you know, it's better if you have done it before than, so at least you can trust yourself and the rest of world, right? 

[00:44:46] Richard Simms: Yeah, so, yeah, it's good perspective and kind of a good reminder to just embrace the journey and, you know, that's...

[00:44:53] Mark Hubbard: I want, I want to have done that, like, that is, you know, that is part of what I, I have a, you know, I do, I have a, I have my own idols, like, I wanna be this, I don't wanna be the smartest person in the room, that's the wrong thing, but I wanna be, I wanna be smart, and I want to be capable, right, I, like, when someone says to me, you know, offhanded sometimes, "Oh, you're the smartest person I've ever met."

[00:45:11] Or something, like, you know, I say very nicely, "Oh, that, oh, oh, that's really nice." And, like, inside, I'm like, you know, "My, my precious." Like, that's what I wanna hear more than anything. And so, uh, you know, I need to be broken of that. So, so that, um, so that's, that's not the thing that I, that is only valuable to me, um, so, yeah, no.

[00:45:33] Richard Simms: Awesome. Well, this has been great, I really appreciate it, Mark, thanks so much for making the time. So, before we sign off, you know, where can listeners go to connect with you? Learn more about Renew, and what can they do to support your mission.

[00:45:46] Mark Hubbard: Sure. Well, it used to be Twitter, but I don't think Twitter exists anymore. No, it didn't, it didn't even really used to be Twitter. LinkedIn is probably the easiest thing, I, I suppose, connect on there, I just accept all connections, so it's by default 'cause I can't, I can't stand notifications.

[00:46:00] So, um, I just need to clear all the notifications, so, um, come, come on in there, probably don't message me in there, probably come in there, use that to get my email and then email me, uh, um, is the, is the best bet, but, uh, that's probably the easier way to get me, renewvc.com is the, is the, uh, website.

[00:46:18] So, certainly go to that, um, like I said, you know, we, we, we're a two-sided marketplace. So, if you know a founder that in any way fits any of the kind of categories that we've talked about, we wanna know about 'em. I'd love to meet that person, doesn't mean I can necessarily do anything for them directly, but I, you know, I may be able to point them in a few directions that ultimately make the difference, right? So, to help that activity in their lives, that's a good thing, um, and same thing on the investor front, like, if, if, you know, if you know somebody who would like to put money to work in a way that, that is maybe a little bit more productive than, than they have in the past, it's, that's more interesting than just, you know, owning an S&P 500 Index,

[00:46:55] then, uh, then, yeah, have 'em talk to us, and we'd love to talk to them, and then who knows, same thing, maybe five relationships down the road that, that's something good for us, but, you know, at least we can, uh, we can build relationships.

[00:47:05] Richard Simms: For sure. It all, it all comes around. Well, thank you so much, Mark. I appreciate it, and, uh, let's connect again soon. Alright.

[00:47:12] Mark Hubbard: Thanks. Thank you.