Harnessing Technology to Revolutionize Pet Care with Brian Lyman

In this episode of Digital Footprint, Richard Simms sits down with Brian Lyman, the Co-founder and COO of MOVES to explore the boom in veterinary specialty care.

By merging technology with a people-first approach to pet care, the MOVES platform is bringing on-demand board-certified specialists to animal hospitals nationwide.

As a result, pet owners across the country can access potentially life-saving, high-quality care when their four-legged family member may need it most.

Key takeaways to listen for:

• How making smart operational decisions during good times enables your startup to survive bad times.
• Combatting industry-wide  burnout and turnover by empowering veterinary specialists with greater autonomy and decision-making authority.
• Grassroots marketing is still a powerful tool to connect with prospective clients, including direct mail, email, phone banking, and personal introductions.

Want to bring a SaaS product to market, quickly?
Book a consultation: https://tyrannosaurustech.com/contact/

Connect with our cohosts Richard Simms & Carlos Gonzalez on Linkedin

Transcript

Richard Simms: Hello and welcome to the Digital footprint presented by Tyrannosaurus Tech, an award-winning technology partner dedicated to helping you create high impact software products. I'm your host, Richard Sims. So if you are like one of the 86 million homes in the US, then you have got a pet. And that number has been growing steadily since the 1970s.

So Americans don't just have pets. We love them, of course. And in 2022 alone, apparently Americans spent 136 billion on their dogs, [00:03:00] cats, lizards, goldfish. Whatever it is. Um, so the demand for veterinary specialty care, which is something we're gonna talk about today, is one of the fastest growing industries and occupations.

So again, in this episode, we're speaking to someone who knows this firsthand and can give us an inside scoop into this booming industry. Uh, joining me today, he's the co-founder and chief operating officer at Moves. A mobile veterinary startup focused on bringing on demand board certified specialists to animal hospitals across the nation.

He's a serial entrepreneur, founder of Vail Studios, a former marketing director specializing in digital design and e-commerce. Please welcome to the show Brian Lyman.

Brian Lyman: Richard, it's great to be here.

Richard Simms: Absolutely. I really appreciate you doing this and uh, I'm excited to dig in with you. Um, so yeah, let's jump right [00:04:00] in. So there's a lot I want to unpack today, but first I have to ask a really serious question, which is, are

Brian Lyman: I'm ready for it.

Richard Simms: you a dog or a cat person?

Brian Lyman: Oh boy, you gotta ask me that on different days. I don't know.

Richard Simms: And we're recording this, so I might trap you.

Brian Lyman: we have both in our household. Um, lately I think the cats have been winning me Uh, I enjoy their criminality, and they, they teach us how to relax, don't they? I

Richard Simms: I love it.

Brian Lyman: I think we should all come back as cats next opportunity.

Richard Simms: So you like the mischief. I get it.

Brian Lyman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Richard Simms: Good answer. 'Cause you gotta, you gotta love both in your line of I'm sure. Um, alright, cool. So getting back to moves, you know, for, for those of us who are new to the concept of veterinary specialty care Yeah. Help our audience just understand, you know, what that's about.

When they think about, you

their dog [00:05:00] the vet or whatever it is.

Brian Lyman: Absolutely. And in the end, it's not all that different from our experience in human healthcare, which is to say that we're all familiar with having, you know, kind of a family doctor, a general practitioner that we go to. And it's very similar in animal health that you're gonna have, uh, a general practice veterinarian at your local animal hospital, and that's where you're going for your animals.

Wellness, uh, sometimes for spay neuter vaccines or, um, you know, the, the more common, um, illnesses and injuries that our, our, our pets experience. Uh, but sometimes, uh, those illnesses or injuries become more advanced, more critical, and they're gonna require, uh, the input and care of a veterinary specialist.

Um, and. in animal health, um, is at the same time, uh, similar but different to what we know in human healthcare. Uh, you are going to encounter, uh, oncologists, cardiologists, neurologists, [00:06:00] uh, you're gonna encounter advanced surgeons and internal medicine specialists. Um, and then of course there.

Are even as we really get even more and more granular, there's nutritionists and behaviorists. Um, so really, um, veterinary care is in a lot of ways, um, Whether it's technology or, uh, kind of the structure of it as, um, as an operation, as a business is. Some folks like to say it's just 20 years behind human healthcare.

So whatever we're seeing in human now, we're likely to see 20 years from now in, in animal health. But, um, you know, veterinary specialists are incredibly. Dedicated professionals, um, who, who care deeply about the whole health of an animal. And, you know, it's, it's really an inspiring profession to me because these are folks who can't talk to their patients.

You know, they can't ask where does it hurt. Um, so they have to be able to [00:07:00] apply, uh, the very best of the education, science, and experience that they can bring to bear to care for, um, our beloved pets.

Richard Simms: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I imagine that. Some of the trends I was referencing earlier all kind of line up with this degree of specialty care because way long ago, I imagine if you had a really unique situation with your pet that unfortunately if the general that didn't have the know-how or, you know, the equipment.

It, kind of was what it was and it would play out, you know, in a, in a sad way in a lot of cases. But, um, obviously now it's great that folks are specializing a lot more and. I know from my experience, and I'm sure you have a million stories like this from customers, but you know, we had an old dog that got cancer and yeah, I mean, he was part of the family, so we, we did, of course, everything we could to, you know, extend his life and, and make right and make sure he was [00:08:00] comfortable.

And I think that, of course, most folks, um, if they can, are willing to, to invest to that degree and, and try to do the right thing, you know? Um,

Brian Lyman: And you know, some of the numbers that you quoted at the beginning, you know, pet ownership has really exploded in the United States, has a long term trend, but even short term, I think, I think everybody's familiar with the concept of the pandemic puppy. know, uh, 2020 was, um, I think for all industries, kind of a seminal year, a watershed moment, and that's absolutely true in animal health as well.

Um, the interesting thing, however, is that that adoption of pet ownership and you know, that being a really broadly accepted norm, it's very difficult for the industry to keep up with that level of demand in terms of the professionals that. That get trained. Um, so I know again, during correlations to human healthcare, we talk a lot about how difficult it is to produce enough doctors, enough nurses to really meet the demands of the healthcare system.

Um, it's a similar [00:09:00] challenge in animal health. Um, there are far fewer veterinary schools than there are medical schools. And beyond that very, very limited numbers of internships and residencies that can really produce specialists.

Richard Simms: Right.

Brian Lyman: So as you can imagine, that starts to create pretty significant bottlenecks in terms of access to care.

Um, so depending on the needs of your animal, um, there can be very lengthy wait times to get access to a veterinary specialist. Um, and that's in and of itself is one of our motivations and founding ideals at moves. Is that, uh, by introducing, uh, a board certified specialist to a community and equipping them to provide their services on a mobile basis, instead of being, um, you know, fixed in the location of a referral hospital, they're able to travel, bring their expertise, their equipment to.

Your [00:10:00] local veterinary hospital where you see your normal GP vet and provide services there, uh, to us this is a very efficient model for distributing care and it also helps to identify the correct patient population. know, there's a lot of advanced procedures and a lot of advanced care that can be delivered in the general practice setting, and doing so really alleviates pressure on those high volume referral hospitals and helps the more critical.

Um, patients get access to care faster.

Richard Simms: right. Okay. Okay. Super interesting. So you, you referenced there briefly, like historically there were these specialty hospitals that folks would be referred to. Um, so one of the biggest changes with moves and kind of the direction the industry is going is, you know, having these specialists more. On call where they can go work within the veterinary practice that you're comfortable with, that you know your dog or cat is familiar with the [00:11:00] building and you know, ease, anxiety, et cetera.

So for moves, you know, I know that if I'm understanding correctly, you're kind of recruiting and hiring the specialists directly, and then of course you have your own systems and a lot of. Logistics for getting them to the right location at the right time and making sure you're covered for different metro areas or or regions.

Tell us a little bit more about just how moves works, like what's the day-to-day operations how's the engine kind of running there?

Brian Lyman: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I'll begin by saying that in terms of the mobile model versus the fixed location hospital model, uh, they have to coexist, right? Um, there are certain things that are never going to be practical or appropriate on a mobile basis. You know, we can't lug around a CT machine. We can't do an MRI on a mobile basis, you know, Um, and likewise, some of the more critical patients, they really need 24 hour monitoring, 24 hour care, and [00:12:00] that, that's why the referral hospital exists, you know, and it, that's what it's best at and that's what we need it for.

Um, but likewise, communities also really benefit from having, uh, access to these specialty services on a mobile basis for the right patient at the right time. So, uh, a move specialist. Uh, you know, their day begins and ends at their home. Um, our specialists are always paired with a full-time, uh, veterinary technician who works with them and assists them throughout the day.

So they will load up their, uh, their vehicle with all of the equipment and supplies that they're gonna need to see their cases for the day. Uh, they will travel their market, which is, you know, uh, usually a subdivided geographic radius that we help, uh, uh, develop with and for them and promote them within it.

Um, and they will see patients throughout the day. So if you're an internal medicine specialist, this is gonna be a variety of, of, uh, abdominal ultrasounds or endoscopic procedures. If you're a [00:13:00] surgeon, this is gonna be a lot of, uh, orthopedic repairs, you know, repairing, um, Uh, ligaments in a dog's knee or, uh, mass removals from, from any number of kind of animals.

Um, a lot of our specialists will on occasion, uh, get called into, uh, to a local zoo, um, and they get to perform a more advanced on a more exotic animal. Uh, that's always really exciting for our teams, and it's, uh, it's a thrill to be able to helpful in those situations. Um, but yeah, you know, the, the day in day out experience is providing.

What is essentially advanced outpatient care, um, in the setting of your local veterinary hospital and our, uh, our team members, our doctors and technicians are really there to serve as consultants, uh, to that referring veterinarian. Um, that main veterinarian still kind of retains, uh, ownership of the case and the client relationship.

And we are there to kind of support them [00:14:00] and, um, help to elevate the level of care at their practice and their facility and, and make them even more of a value add to their community. so depending on, uh, the specialty area, you know, moves currently offers internal medicine, cardiology, and surgery. Uh, so our cardiologists are in there, uh, taking echocardiograms, doing monitoring, EKGs, things like that.

Um, they can see several patients a day, several patients per appointment. Uh, similarly, our internist can also see and treat several patients per appointment per day. And then when you get to surgery, that's more of a, uh, Two to three, maybe four on the outside patients per day. Uh, so at the end of the day, load things back in the truck, head home.

Uh, surgery's gonna have some sterilization work to do that gets done at home. And all of this is done with equipment that, um, you know, moves has provided to our teams as they onboard and providing services through us.

Richard Simms: Very [00:15:00] cool. Um, so I have a few questions based on what you just shared. So one, I think about kind of the. Customer acquisition process for MOVES and to me, which this may be the wrong way to think about it, is kind of a marketplace, right? And obviously got your specialist, you've got the actual veterinary clinics, the physical location, and then of course you have like the end.

Patient or customer, I mean the dog itself and their owner. So, um, you know, for you all, I know you do a lot of recruiting, kind of getting these specialists on board, I'm sure there's like a lot of outreach to these individual practices. I guess tell me a little bit more about how you balance those and then like the value proposition for these practices to kind of get board with this model.

Brian Lyman: Yeah. So I'll speak first to the recruiting side of it, just so that's understood. Um, yeah, so the career path of a veterinary specialist, um, [00:16:00] varies to a degree, but there are a few benchmarks along the way. You know, they will have completed veterinary school. Uh, they will typically have done one or two internship years as they move towards their area of specialization.

Then they need to match with a residency program. And that's, uh, a three year. Uh, experience and then upon completing residency, they need to pass their board certification exams. So this is a very lengthy and involved process on their part. And, um, it's, there's not a large population of them in the United States.

Um, so honestly, it's, it numbers just in the low thousands in terms of number of active board certified specialists, and many of those are. In academia teaching future veterinarians, future specialists. Some of them are in industry, uh, whether they are working in pharmaceuticals or nutrition or developing new therapies.

So as you can see, that funnel gets kind of slimmer and slimmer as we get down to. Board certified specialists who are active [00:17:00] clinicians seeing patients. Right? Um, and so our recruiting outreach is to identify those folks, um, you know, maintain good up-to-date contact information for them, and provide as many opportunities, uh, for access to learn about moves and how we operate and what sort of opportunities we can offer them.

Um, so once we engage with candidates and we go through a lengthy discovery process, making sure that they sort of understand the differences between what a mobile practice looks like compared to their experience in a brick and mortar facility. And just understanding the dynamic of working within moves when it's time to launch a new service area.

That's really where our marketing department kind of kicks into high gear and starts to shine. Um, so, you know, I'm a child of, uh, the nineties and if this were happening back then, we would've opened the Yellow Pages and gone to Animal Hospital and just that was list. So today of course we go to Google Maps.

We go [00:18:00] to a variety of different, uh, public information sources, and we do the deep dive to identify every single animal hospital that's within a reasonable driving distance of this specialist home. Um, and we will. Build a very robust database of contact information, how many veterinarians work at each clinic, how to reach out to them, who the decision makers are, practice managers, head technicians, things like that.

And, uh, we just start a really strong, uh, grassroots marketing campaign. And that's gonna look like direct mail, email, phone banking. And then when our specialist and technician finally start, They're kind of boots on the ground. Uh, they're gonna go, they're gonna go shake hands, make introductions, tell the story of moves and how they can benefit these hospitals and.

From our perspective, this is one of the like strongest win win win propositions available. Um, because [00:19:00] we're not asking these hospitals to spend a dime, they don't need to invest in new marketing, they don't need to win new clients, we can step in and expand the services that they can offer to their existing base of clients.

So right now, if, uh, if that dog comes in and it's got a, a torn ligament in its knee, Without access to a board certified surgeon. They have to refer that patient away to a local specialty hospital. Uh, now all of a sudden you can, to use an e-commerce term, you can convert that, you can convert that, keep that transaction in-house.

And not only that, but there are additional ancillary services that go along with something like surgery, such as blood work, labs, radiographs, anesthesia, and the hospital continue. The host hospital continues to own. And be responsible for that whole portion of the, of the services. Um, so, you know, we like to talk to clinics and tell them [00:20:00] that, you know, working with a mobile specialist is, uh, better for your patients, better for your practice, and better for your bottom line.

Uh, and of course all of that's in the context of maintaining best practice and best medicine. Uh, a move specialist is never gonna come in and try to convince you to treat a patient in house that really needs to go referral center. Um, of course, as I said before, That's always gonna be there. It's always gonna be an essential component of an animal healthcare system in a community.

We're here to supplement that and as I said before, relieve some of the pressure. Um, you know, if you think about it in terms of human healthcare, we hear a lot about overcrowded ERs, right? People going to the hospital who don't necessarily need to be treated at the hospital, uh, they could be treated at an urgent care or their family doctor.

We're enabling that in animal health by bringing specialist to the family.

Richard Simms: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I would think with the specialists kind of going back to talking about, you know, covid and [00:21:00] like the myriad ways that flipped everything on its head, I imagine for a lot of them who obviously are very much in demand, so they can kind of have some, you know, power in the dynamic of how they wanna set their schedule, their lifestyle.

So I gotta think. Moves, fits very well into that 'cause it sounds like they get to be pretty autonomous. They've kind of got the benefit, of course, of you all's support and, you know, administrative function, but they can kind of, you know, manage their schedule a bit more, stay closer to home if they want, you know, all that good stuff.

So that's gotta be a of the, the recruiting

Brian Lyman: Absolutely. It's a huge part of recruiting and one of our core values as an organization is what we call trustworthy independence, and it's exactly this kind of ethos that you're touching on, which is to say, you know, These are incredibly experienced, educated, qualified professionals. I think the very least that we can do is empower them to make [00:22:00] some choices about schedule.

Right. Um, and you know, it's very interesting that you brought up with there being so few of them and in so much demand, um, don't they have a lot of, uh, I guess, kind of bargaining power in this, in this market? And the interesting thing is that, um, A lot of the employment scenarios that we meet them in, um, are really constrained by the employment contracts that are so common in this industry.

Um, non-competes are very common and it's a very hot topic in the industry right now, um, and a lot of times precisely what specialists are looking for when they discover moves and start to, you know, explore an opportunity Here is how can I get a little bit more. A little more autonomy, a little bit more decision making power over how I practice medicine and what my day-today experience is.

Um, you know, a veterinary residency is not unlike a human medicine [00:23:00] residency in of the, demands on. Your time, your energy, your emotions, and how draining it can be. And a lot of folks, uh, have shared stories with me about feeling like, okay, I'm gonna gut it through residency 'cause there's a light at the end of the tunnel and I'm gonna be a specialist.

I'm gonna write my own ticket. And, uh, a lot of folks kind of crash on the, on the rocks of a very different reality, um, that there is such overwhelming demand for services. I mean, Richard veterinarians are very big hearted individuals, you know? Um, So many of them have wanted to be in this line of work since they were children, and they went into it because they cared about animals and they wanted animals to be well healthy and whole.

And so, um, it's a, it's a challenging profession, uh, in that regard because they want on a very deep personal emotional level to meet this need, but the need is overwhelming. Um, and so that leads to, um, [00:24:00] Particularly in some large hospital environments, a lot, a lot of on-call requirements, a lot of nights, weekends, holidays, time away from family, et cetera.

So in any career change, we're always solving for X. Right? And I think for a lot of the specialists at Moves and those who we encounter on a, on a regular basis each week, the X they're solving for is, I wanna stay in this profession. But my current circumstance is heading towards burnout. I can't see myself doing this for years.

I wanna find a way that I can stay in this, this vocation that I really feel called to and love, but in a way that's sustainable for me and my family.

Richard Simms: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, sounds like there's a high likelihood that a lot of these folks may very well have exited the industry without something like this as an option. So

Brian Lyman: Yeah.

Richard Simms: that's, that's great for everyone. Um, super interesting. So changing gears a little bit, one thing. [00:25:00] I appreciate having gotten to know you over the last few years as I feel like, and this I'm sure is a part of your background, like you have a very tech savvy perspective and I think there's a lot of facets of moves that you all kind of run very much like a tech company.

I know you all have been growing a lot, and so one thing. We're thinking a lot about here at Tyrannosaurus Tech. Naturally, as we watch, you know, the investment landscape and obviously with interest rates up, that dynamic has changed a lot, and I think a lot of our audience is either. In the midst of or considering launching a new product where those are considerations.

So I think moves has taken, um, kind of a unique approach to that over the last few years. And so I was hoping you could expand on your perspective there, how you all have navigated that and just kind of how that's factored into you all's growth over the last few years.

Brian Lyman: Yeah, absolutely. It's been quite a journey. I mean, moves is about five and a half years old at this point. And, you know, [00:26:00] uh, was a true bootstrap startup. Uh, you know, myself and my co-founder, um, you know, providing the initial capital to launch the business and just relentlessly reinvesting revenue. You know, relentlessly, uh, in order to get the company to a place where it was like sustaining itself and cashflow.

And we, we had a little bit of leverage to make decisions on how we were gonna grow and how we were gonna receive investment. And, you know, we've, uh, we've had conversations with, uh, with private equity, with venture capital. Um, and that's a huge influence in the animal healthcare industry. Uh, uh, Today and, and over the last 20 years, um, there's been a major movement of acquisition and consolidation as, as.

The interests of, uh, private equity have discovered there's a lot of value in animal health. Uh, and so there have been massive funds that come in and scoop up and [00:27:00] acquire, uh, hospitals, you know, by the truckload and consolidate them into large corporate groups. Um, And moves is very different organization than a hospital, you know, um, we're, we're pretty lightweight as an organization.

We're heavily dependent on technology and logistics rather than facilities. Um, and so, you know, we were sort of an interesting, um, Potential target to some of these funds, and we've had those conversations. But, you know, in the end, um, my co-founder David and I just felt that there was still so much runway ahead of us and our, our revenue was supporting us to a, to a really strong degree.

And we didn't feel secure in giving up control. Um, because that's the story we encounter from so many of our specialists in.

Richard Simms: Right.

Brian Lyman: I was at this hospital, it was great. It had a great culture. They sold to X group [00:28:00] and at first it was fine, but within a couple years this changed. That changed the culture, degraded.

It became about volume, it became about margins, and I'm burnt out. And so, you know, I think it would be foolish to say it'll be different. For us, right? I think, uh, past performance is a predictor, right? Um, so we made the decision that we were gonna continue to grow based on revenue, reinvest revenue, make our own reinvestment.

Um, we did have, uh, you know, a, a small. Private investment rounds last fall, um, that has set us up to be able to continue saying yes to as many qualified specialists has come our way, and it's serving us really well. It keeps us in the driver's seat as, um, as entrepreneurs, as business leaders, and allows us to focus on, um, hiring specialists and entering markets that really align well with our business model.

[00:29:00] Um, you know, a lot of these, uh, Large, uh, corporate consolidated groups, as you mentioned, rising interest rate environments and all these things that's putting a lot of financial pressure on them, and these funds are realizing we may not be able to sell this group as easily as we could have two, three years ago.

We've gotta get back to. Real operational basics and make sure that these businesses are running well. Um, instead of how quickly can we grow by acquisition, pump that valuation and turn it over to the next fund. Um, so we're very proud to be opting out of that cycle, um, and focusing on business fundamentals, culture, operational efficiency from the get go, um, and focusing on.

Really keeping our promises to these specialists that we hire in terms of their day-to-day experience and the [00:30:00] level of autonomy that they enjoy.

Richard Simms: Yeah, that, that's great. And I, I respect that sincerely. I mean, I think it surprises people because although of course I think there's a time and a place where institutional investment can be super valuable and there's certain markets and timing elements, but you know, for anyone who actually listens or reads our content regularly, I think we have a healthy level of, you know, Either cynicism or skepticism just based on the fact that in the tech startup world, you know, VC money, like it is just kind of portrayed as the end all be all.

And all of those trade-offs that I think are very real and you're clearly very aware of, are really, um, important considerations. You know, and I think a lot of folks too quickly get focused on that. It's not a place they should be focused. And I think, you know, from what I [00:31:00] understand about you all's space, One, it sounds like a good differentiator for you all is that you're not at that place, and maybe you will be in the future, who knows?

But you've got more of that, you know, bootstrapped like authentic feel that I'm sure a lot of your customers appreciate. Um,

Brian Lyman: Yeah.

Richard Simms: you know, and, and yeah, I just think, um, you know, it can be so tempting to like, push that when it, it just doesn't make sense. And I, I think 

Brian Lyman: Capital's a tool, right? Like like anything else. And as we were, as we were weighing all these different options for capitalization, we asked ourselves like, okay, what are our hurdles where money actually moves the needle? Right. And it's like, okay, unless we're talking about enough money to build a dozen more veterinary schools and open up 20 more residency programs, uh, I'm [00:32:00] actually hard pressed, uh, apart from, you know, bread and butter kind of recruiting, marketing spend.

I'm hard pressed to see how that money is gonna move the needle in terms of creating. More veterinary specialists for us to hire, right? So we had to think about how much did we wanna raise, what was that spend gonna go to? And um, you know, strike that balance between security in the face of upcoming economic uncertainty and making sure we can actually deploy that capital effectively for our team and for our investors.

Richard Simms: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I just imagine, from what I understand about your space, you know, even though it clearly is growing and there's a lot going on, it's, it's not like it's gonna be win or take all in the next 18 months or something where you just absolutely have to get into some kind of arms race.

it doesn't sound like that's necessary. And to your point, I've. Had those conversations or considerations? Sometimes myself just having [00:33:00] done bootstrapped business where sure, like more money would be nice, but sometimes you don't really have a tangible, at least short term application for it. That would make sense.

So like just raising the money in and of itself is not a, an end goal, you know?

Brian Lyman: Right, right. Yeah. It's gotta be, it's gotta be for something. There's gotta be strategy attached to it,

Richard Simms: Mm. Yeah. Well, cool. That, that's all super interesting. So, um, for moves, you know, I know you said you all been at it for about five and a half years. Um, obviously you've put a lot into it. I'm sure there's been a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. Like what are some of the most difficult things you've been through with moves that you can think of?

You know, is it, um, You know, is it late nights? Is it, you know, an unhappy customer? Like what sticks out to you as things that you powered through? But, um, were were road bumps along the way.

Brian Lyman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we had to be, we had to be pretty scrappy, uh, [00:34:00] in the early days of the organization. And the way that that took shape for us in a very tangible, uh, way, was we had to be willing to take on the risk. Of, uh, I, I alluded earlier to a very restrictive contract environment where many of these folks are in a situation where they've got restrictive covenants, non-competes, non-solicits, that are really prohibiting their ability to continue working.

Without relocating. Um, and of course, you know, put yourself in their shoes. If every time you change jobs, it meant you had to also change cities. Uh, that's a tremendous burden on a person's lifestyle and, and career. Um, and so for us, uh, in the early days, that meant, um, taking on the risk of hiring some folks who were subject to these restrictions and having to, uh, You know, navigate that legal landscape.

Um, in the end, that was a necessary risk and I'm thrilled that we took it. It definitely led [00:35:00] to some sleepless nights. Um, but, uh, you know, that was, I think, really essential to kind of cementing, uh, some really important aspects of our culture as an organization, which is to say that we, we really do, um, Believe that this, this all gets driven.

The, the quality of care, um, the, the impact on the community. So much of it comes from the experience of our clinical team members, our specialists, and our technicians, and what a different experience it is to provide services through moves than in. A high volume practice setting that is driven by a lot of, uh, remote concerns that may not have anything to do with their, with their practice.

Um, so yeah, so navigating, navigating a, a sort of fraught. Contract, non-compete environment, uh, was a big one. Of course, you know, when Covid hit, we were only just over two years old as an [00:36:00] organization and like so many young businesses, that was a really terrifying level of uncertainty. Um, but. What we could not have foreseen was the explosion in pet ownership and explosion in interest in veterinary services as a whole.

And that's true across the board, whether you're talking general practice, specialty, emergency, no matter what. Um, it was such an incredible year over year.

Richard Simms: Mm-hmm.

Brian Lyman: Jump in demand for services that a lot of places have had difficulty making. Their numbers look good since then because 2020 was such a huge spike.

Um, so, you know, navigating the initial uncertainty of, um, How the pandemic, how lockdowns in those early days were gonna play out. Um, that really restricted access to a lot of medical supplies for us. Um, some of our specialists would even be donating medical supplies to their [00:37:00] local hospital in the, in the early days of March, April, 2020.

Um, so yeah, contract law. Pandemic. Uh, those were, those were the big scary things in the early days. Um, but as you certainly know, every time you overcome one of those challenges, um, it just gives you that much more confidence that whatever comes next. You can weather it. Um, and as long as you are making smart operational decisions in the good times, um, you're gonna have, uh, you know, the, the encouragement of what you've gone through in the past to carry you through what the next hurdle is.

Richard Simms: Yeah, absolutely. Um, that's a great story and I've talked to other business owners that through a very unexpected flow, it's like covid, you know, of course we all wish it hadn't happened. It's overwhelmingly negative and. [00:38:00] Who knows, like where moves would be without that. But it, it does like kind of morph in a weird way where I think that gave you all a push in the sense that specialists wanting to change their lifestyle again, folks like getting more pads, et cetera.

So you just kind of never know. Um, but yeah, it seems like you all navigated that very well, all things considered and, um, came

Brian Lyman: Yeah, you never know what you're gonna learn from these

Richard Simms: Yeah, that was,

Brian Lyman: Like

Richard Simms: pretty unexpected for all of

Brian Lyman: yeah. Yeah. The unexpected is always an education,

Richard Simms: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, the other side of the coin, there any like really high moments that stick out to you, you know, where there was a great outcome with a patient, or you're just like, whew, we've made it, this was, you know, a big milestone.

Anything like that?

Brian Lyman: You know, it, it's actually, it's actually kind of the small, very human moments that are the highest highs for me. Um, because, um, a lot of our specialists will come to us at a time [00:39:00] when they have, you know, uh, they have young families, they've got young kids. Um, and that's obviously as much of an aspiration for them as their whole career and. They never used to be able to make it to the soccer game, the recital, the parent teacher conference, you know, they had the job that was too demanding to fit those things in on the margin. Um, and when we get a note or one of our doctors shares a photo on one of our Slack channels of, you know, their child's karate tournament or the vacation that they've been waiting, waiting to for years. There is this sense that they come to moves and it sounds too good to be true and they're waiting and they're waiting, but the other shoe doesn't really drop and they really do have the flexibility to be reengaged with their families to. Take the time that they want and need. We don't, we don't actually have, [00:40:00] uh, limits on vacation time moves.

Um, you know, because of the unique, uh, kind of compensation models in this industry that's really self-regulating. And so we say, by all means, if, if you want to take vacation, take vacation, you're a grownup. You don't, you don't need to ask our permission for that. And our team does. They enjoy a lot of vacation and it's fantastic for us to watch and see the relief.

And the satisfaction that our team members experience, because again, you'll remember what I said. What they're all looking for is a way that they can stay in this vocation without burning out. And to see that actually start to happen as they're with us for six months, 12 months, couple years, that's deeply satisfying for me and that really connects me to just a greater purpose and mission in sense of what we're doing here.

Richard Simms: Yeah. That's awesome. Um, and yeah, I can appreciate it sounds like it takes them a while to like, Realize it's for real. Uh, and I, I can [00:41:00] tell of course, from speaking with you and then just, you know, everything I observe about moves that you all put a lot of sincere care into the specialists and making sure that, you know, they are respected, they have the room to run.

It's a sustainable setup for them. I think that's awesome. Um, so. One question I always like to ask, you know, if you had to speak to one or two pieces of advice for early stage entrepreneurs or folks who are considering, you know, launching a new business, what, what would they be? Um,

Brian Lyman: Oh yeah. Um, I think, uh, I would recommend like, Lean into process as early as possible. Um, and I know that especially in a, in a young startup, you're gonna have financial constraints and that's gonna limit the number of team members you can bring [00:42:00] on. But man, when you get the right person in the right role, and you've got process established for how they should be doing their job, like that's when you can scale.

know, um, if you, if you can't get to that point, you're not gonna build something that's bigger than yourself, right? Everything's gonna be limited by what you have the ability personally, uh, to drive and to manage and to oversee. Um, and it's, it's process that enables you to install people in their roles and set them free to do jobs.

Um, so I think that that would be, That would be my biggest piece of advice to somebody who's trying to start something new, build it from scratch, or somebody who's trying to turn an operation around is to say, okay, what, what process do we have in place? Where are we lacking it? Because, uh, people succeed when they know what's expected of them, when they know what the steps are to get from A to B to C.

Um, so I think that's where. [00:43:00] We often think about entrepreneurs in terms of like the big idea, you know, what's the new, innovative, disruptive concept? Um, but that's nothing if we, if we don't give our teams a roadmap for how to get there. Um, so I think leaning, leaning into and developing process as early as possible, um, rather than saying, uh, you know, we'll figure it out as we go.

Richard Simms: Yeah. Yeah,

Brian Lyman: We, we, we had plenty of pain points because of things, things that we said. We'd figure it out as we go. Um, but, uh, yeah, the more, more process you can install as early as possible, the better that's gonna set you up for scaling.

Richard Simms: Yeah. Yeah, that, that's great advice. Um, and I know from my experience, it's like when you really try to iron it out as a process and document it, of course you learn about what you're doing and what makes sense and what doesn't and where the holes are. Um, so I'm right there with you. I think that's, that's great advice.

Um, [00:44:00] so. I think we're about out of time. So on that note, Brian, this feels like a good place to wrap it up. Um, shared some really great stuff and I learned some new stuff about moves, which was fun. So thank you again for taking the time to join me, uh, on the digital footprint and thanks for sharing your expertise.

Um, And thanks to our audience of course, for tuning in. If you wanna learn more about moves, head over to vetmoves.com or follow them on Facebook at Mobile Veterinary Specialists. Uh, be sure to follow us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, and let us know what you thought of today's episode.

You can reach me on LinkedIn. I'm at Richard L. Sims. That's s I M M S. And of course, if you need help with your next big tech project, shoot us a message on Tyrannosaurustech.com and we'll be in touch. Thanks again for joining us on the Digital footprint. We will see you next time.