Improving Health through Nature Exposure with Jared Hanley of NatureQuant

We all know that  getting out in the sunshine can boost our mood when we're feeling down, but it turns out that exposure to nature is more broadly impactful and beneficial than we previously understood. The science to back this up is mounting and indisputable. Nature exposure provides profound mental and physical health improvements. Access to nature, however, is not equitably distributed throughout our communities.

In this episode of The Digital Footprint, we sit down with Jared Hanley,  Founder and CEO of NatureQuant. NatureQuant focuses on delivering technology to assess and promote nature exposure.

By synthesizing multiple nature quantification data-sources through a machine-learning process, Jared and his team are able to deliver a “NatureScore” that helps qualify and quantify the natural elements for a given location. With their NatureDose mobile application, NatureQuant also offers a personalized nature prescription tracker that helps users optimize the benefits of time outdoors.

Join us as Jared shares more about the far reaching impacts of exposure to nature and the challenges that stem from inequitable access to nature throughout the U.S. Jared also shares the challenges and wins he and his team have experienced as they've grown their vision and impact with NatureQuant.

Guest-at-a-Glance

💡 Name: Jared Hanley

💡 What he does: Jared is the CEO and Founder of NatureQuant

💡 Company: NatureQuant

💡 Noteworthy: Although he has a rich background in financial services and data science, the the great outdoors has always been one of Jared's true passions. That analytical background has helped Jared craft a vision for quantifying nature exposure, making it easier to measure and promote more equitably. 

💡 Where to find Jared: LinkedIn

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Transcript

E661389B_11 - TT - Digital Footprint - Transcript

[00:00:00] Richard Simms: Hello and welcome to the Digital Footprint. I'm Richard Simms and this podcast is brought to you by Tyrannosaurus Tech, an award-winning technology partner dedicated to designing and developing high-impact software products. I am proud to say this is our 10th episode of the Digital Footprint. It's been a lot of fun getting this podcast off the ground.

[00:00:22] We started it, you know, January of this year, so we'll have a full year under our belt before too long. And for our first double-digit episode, we have a super interesting guest, Jared Hanley, CEO and Founder of NatureQuant. Excited to have you on the show, Jared. 

[00:00:39] Jared Hanley: Thanks, Richard. Excited to be here.

[00:00:41] Richard Simms: So we were introduced a few months ago by a shared connection in the health startup space. And he started describing NatureQuant to me, and I was very intrigued and immediately identified with the problem you're solving. So I'm really excited to dig in further and share what you're working on with our audience.

[00:01:01] So to get started, can you just take a minute or two, introduce yourself, tell folks a little bit about NatureQuant? 

[00:01:09] Jared Hanley: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, Jared Hanley, as you mentioned, I'm the CEO at NatureQuant. And I guess kind of the most pertinent background on me is that I have spent 20 odd years delving into data science and kind of the, the starts of machine learning. Mostly applied to the financial services world, but that really wasn't core to my, my passion and what I've always loved and found as provided me

[00:01:34] great benefit is time outside in nature. And so, you know, being curious and just personally experiencing these benefits from nature, I started researching why do I feel so good when I'm outside, is it just me or is there some, you know, scientific foundation for this. And I discovered that there's a fairly large and growing body of scientific literature demonstrating really material impacts for time outside, particularly exposed to nature.

[00:01:59] And I thought, "Wow, well, you know, nature doesn't really have a lot of data behind it. And, and, and I can create that data and use that data to understand how nature is actually influencing my health or other's health or other aspects of our environment." So, founded NatureQuant a couple of years ago with, with a few partners to, to do exactly that is create data around nature.

[00:02:21] I mean, hence the name we're quantifying nature in many ways and finding many applications for.

[00:02:26] Richard Simms: Very cool. Yeah.

[00:02:27] And as I mentioned earlier, you know, as a nature lover, when I kind of started looking into you all more, it very much resonated with me. And, you know, I think most folks nowadays understand kind of that basic idea that going for a walk, being outside, getting some exercise can lift your mood, but

[00:02:49] there's a lot more to it than that, right? Can you speak a little more about like the much broader implications of an individuals or community, or even like a society's access and proximity to nature and what those implications can look like? 

[00:03:02] Jared Hanley: Sure. Yeah. And it's funny. I think we all intuitively know that it it's nice to go outside and go for a walk or when you go on vacation, you'd find people go into the mountains or the beach, 'cause we just like it. But it turns out that, you know, as I mentioned, we like it for a reason. It actually bestows a lot of benefit to us, physically and mentally. You know, some of the data that's, that's been aggregated, it's really profound.

[00:03:25] It turns out that nature exposure broadly can be as important as things like diet and exercise, really. I mean the one big meta-study that I'd like to point to, and when I say a meta studies actually an aggregation of about a dozen other studies, shows that proximity to green so the amount of greenery within call it a half kilometer radius around your house can predict your longevity with a very high level of accuracy.

[00:03:48] I mean, essentially every 10% increase in green around her house, correlates to a 4% reduction in all-cause mortality. And so these are, these are profound numbers that I think have a lot of implications in terms of how we, we manage things like public health, right? Understanding the kind of environment you live in can really determine what kind of treatment or risk

[00:04:07] factors are, you're experiencing. But even beyond that kind of on a personal level, once we start to appreciate that nature really is a public health tool, we can use it to promote it as an interventional mechanism, really to get people outside, to expose them to nature and have them understand further, you know, really how is this impacting their mental health. And

[00:04:28] I guess one way to kind of paint this picture more clearly is I can just basically describe what happens to you when you walk into a park. And this is based on, you know, dozens of studies that have seen these results repeatedly. Essentially, you know, five minutes after you've been in, in a park, your heart rate variability increases, which means that your, your body is in kind of the rest and digest mode.

[00:04:48] Your blood pressure goes down, your heart rate goes down. Your cortisol levels, which is a stress hormone, gets reduced. And then we've also found just kind of via surveys that people generally are happier. And then when we test people after they'd been in nature, their ability to focus goes up, their memory goes up.

[00:05:05] So there's all these profound impacts that we see simply by getting outside. So, you know, our mission really is to raise public awareness around that, but also create tools so we can quantify it, analyze it and promote those benefits.

[00:05:18] Richard Simms: Yeah, very cool. I think you all do a good job on your website, speaking to those kind of extensions of the implications. And, and yeah, I think it's really interesting and I think that for anyone when you, you know, when you kind of think about it, certain areas and demographics seem to have more green space, more access to parks, more tree coverage on the streets.

[00:05:43] And you know, even with, with climate change, for example, those things are increasingly important as far as just regulating temperatures in cities and different areas. So, I'm right there with you, obviously, in terms of just kind of starting to grasp the much bigger impact on public health and equity in a lot of different areas and communities.

[00:06:02] So, super interesting. So my other question, you referenced this earlier, you know, as I understand that your background is historically been more so in finance. And it sounds like some of the origin story is, you know, you love being out in nature. I know you live out in Oregon and take a lot of advantage of, you know, the hiking and amazing, you know, landscape out there.

[00:06:24] So it sounds like some of it was, you know, kind of turning to that passion and looking for how you could drive an impact there. But I guess my question is like, what was kind of the original spark that drove you to make a major change and say, "Hey, this is something I want to seriously pursue?" And then how has the vision of all that over time,

[00:06:44] because of course, I assume on day one, you know, you didn't have the vision for the specific products or exactly the direction it was going. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that evolution. 

[00:06:54] Jared Hanley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting, a few years ago, guess as I mentioned, I was devouring all the scientific literature, really profound findings around nature and health. And looking around and realizing that no one was aware of this a and no one was using nature as you know,city planners. We're not considering public health when they really think about things like, you know, park space or tree canopy and in a major way, and individuals certainly weren't using it to manage their own personal health.

[00:07:22] And so I saw this like fast disconnect between, you know, what the science is demonstrating and actually, frankly, many other countries are already employing and what's happening here in the States. And I was trying to figure out how do I bridge that gap in.. Ironically, I kind of came to the conclusion that we need to use technology to get people outside.

[00:07:41] And the best way to use that technology is to create a simple way to measure nature. I think is really important to measure things that matter to you and you know, much like you take something as arbitrary as Bitcoin that has no intrinsic value, but you put a number on it, we start tracking it and all of a sudden it's incredibly important.

[00:07:57] And people are trying to optimize it in many ways. And nature didn't have a number, it needed a number. And so that's what we set out to create. And then once you have that number, you can do things like examine, you know, how, how is nature equitably distributed within communities, what happens when one neighborhood has more or less nature, right?

[00:08:17] What do we see in terms of prevalence of cancer rates or heart disease? What happens is on an individual level when someone doesn't go outside for a week versus someone that goes outside on a regular basis, and when they're outside are they going into parks or they just staying in an urban environment?

[00:08:31] All of that data that we can create with our technology, I think is incredibly exciting, insightful, and actually it's proven to be insightful. That was really the original vision. It was just, I mean, it's as simple as it is, give nature a number and once it has a number, the application seemed to be not a limitless limitless, but there's, there's quite numerous.

[00:08:50] Okay. 

[00:08:51] Richard Simms: Yeah. And you know, one thing we were talking about before we started recording, I guess we mentioned this before too, but like, as you all progress, there's just all these broader applications that initially weren't top of mind. One, I know you address on the website, which I don't think is a, a totally recent relevation, revelation, but just some of the

[00:09:13] kind of real estate applications, which when I think about it makes total sense, right? When you look at a home on Zillow, there's sun score and there's, you know, aggregated data on crime activity and all of these things that obviously influence your decision and potentially, you know, drive up or down the value.

[00:09:31] And of course, again, I think when people are buying a home or looking to develop a particular piece of property, they may in a much more subjective way think about, "Oh, and there's a park close by. Great." But can you speak a little bit more to like that side of the equation and how you all see NatureScore you know, kind of working in the real estate space? 

[00:09:53] Jared Hanley: Yeah. So, you know, historically there's been a bunch of small hedonic pricing models, which are basically models that say, you know, "How do we determine what elements are influencing the value of a particular house?" And they have demonstrated that nature in, you know, the very small scale measured in a very simple way,

[00:10:10] typically some individual walking around counting the number of trees or the size of the trees or physically measuring the distance to the closest park seems to bestow some kind of price premium, but no one has been able to analyze nature at scale. And we now can look at, you know, dozens of natural element events around any property in the US, millions of properties almost instantaneously, and run massive regression models to really determine what elements of major are people paying for, frankly.

[00:10:38] And I think in, in particular, in this last year through COVID when people are looking for outdoor places to escape or relax, or even social. And then also kind of the stress relief that being in nature can provide is really emphasized the demand for natural spaces around where we live.

[00:10:55] And so we're now supplying a lot of our, our nature data to these real estate analytic models that historically just didn't have any of that incorporated. So if you think about like your best estimate for your home, historically, it didn't really have a very precise measurement of the nature around it.

[00:11:09] And we now can provide that data.

[00:11:13] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:11:14] Very cool. Yeah. I could see a lot of ways that plays out in exciting ways, right? So, going a little bit more into the technology side of things specifically, you know, it may be an oversimplification, but I kind of view you all as having these two different products, NatureScore, which you've talked about a little bit and then NatureDose, which has a corresponding mobile app you all have built and, and are, and launched, I think in her enter testing with like a limited audience

[00:11:44] first. I'd love to know more about the two products and then, you know, with, with NatureScore, like how are you all aggregating that data? Where's it all coming from? 'Cause I assume that's a pretty complex amalgamation. 

[00:11:56] Jared Hanley: Yeah, yeah. So, what I've talked about so far is NatureScore, which is really the ability to score the amount of nature around any static location. So take, take your house, for example. We can draw a radius around your house, call it a half kilometer, two kilometer and just examine all the elements inside that radius and the elements that we've aggregated or a bunch of public sources,

[00:12:17] or things like, you know, tree canopy, park space, various GIS data sets, but also stuff we're creating. So we're, you know, sucking in satellite imagery where we can use computer vision to understand what elements we're seeing. And even looking at infrared reflections of, of those, those satellite images, which tell us roughly the amount of live vegetative biomass is in that zone.

[00:12:38] And then we look at also human modification factors like density of highway, a building footprints, impervious surfaces, et cetera. And we've aggregated, I think we have over 30 elements in our data dictionary now with this massive data set of ways to remotely approximate where nature is and isn't and what elements of nature are there.

[00:12:57] And we use that data set to then predict any given outcome. So real estate premium call it cancer rates, heart disease, urban heat islands. We have a university looking at crime rates relative to the amount of nature. So think about any target outcome and then we can run a machine learning process between our massive data set of natural elements and this goal. And it bubbles up into a algorithm

[00:13:21] if you will, a formula that we call a NatureScore to use these nature elements to predict a given outcome. And so that's, that's really what NatureScore is, is it's the ability to kind of apply an understanding of the natural elements within any static location, to a given outcome in an intelligent way.

[00:13:38] Richard Simms: Yeah. And with NatureScore, sorry to interrupt you. I, I assume this is the case is that a lot of you all's effort has been taking what I assume are these publicly available data sets. But I assume they're very disparate and probably not formatted in a way that they work nicely together at the outset.

[00:13:59] So you all are bringing these all together, you know, cleaning them up, formatting them, getting them to where they can be, you know, drawn into this kind of some NatureScore based on the different weights.

[00:14:11] Jared Hanley: Yeah. And we do have several proprietary kind of correction processes. So imagine you're looking at an image from space and you can't tell whether it's a sandy beach or a parking lot, right? Often those two things look the same. So we have a way to determine, "Oh, this actually is natural. This is a beach.

[00:14:29] And that's a parking lot. Or that's a, that's a turf field, right? It's not actual natural grass, that's just the soccer field." So we can't give you credit for live, you know, impervious surface there, 'cause that's actually manmade. So those kinds of like modest modifications or things that, that we, we create.

[00:14:46] And, but then I guess moving on to the next piece is we, so we now have this massive data set and it can score the amount of nature for really every 10 meters in the entire US. And we want to create a tool that then allows us to monitor each individual's exposure nature. So not just understanding how much nature is around what you live, but

[00:15:05] are you getting outside and exposing yourself to that nature. I mean, even just examining how often people are inside her and outside is quite important. And Americans spend roughly 95% of their lives inside right now, surprisingly. So we want to motivate them to get outside a little more and get outside into greener areas.

[00:15:22] And so that's what our mobile app we'll do, which we're calling NatureDose. It really gives you kind of a personalized nature prescription and then tracks the amount of time that you spend outside and when you're outside, what kind of environment are you in, are you near water, are you along in a street with big trees or are you actually in a park space.

[00:15:41] And so we delineate the type of exposure you get over time and then give you this NatureDose, which is important. I mean, it's proven to be important in the scientific literature. I think it's proven to be important for mental health, but also just as a kind of an interventional tool or preventative medicine type tool

[00:15:58] motivating people to get outside and particularly outside and natural elements proven to be quite effective for, for many elements.

[00:16:05] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:16:06] And I know you and I have talked about this, obviously it's increasingly common that folks are subscribed like a certain time outdoors if they're struggling with depression or anxiety. And, you know, you've kind of likened some of what you all want to accomplish with NatureDose with things like, you know, screen time alerts. You,

[00:16:24] you know, for iPhone users and I assume for Android users as well, and those kinds of nudges are very effective. You know, I'm definitely one of those that, I notice, I know, I know that if my screen time is too much, it's definitely poorly affecting my mental health. And just yesterday was like, I deleted Instagram off my phone for

[00:16:43] probably the third time or something, you know. And that was kind of based off of that, that's, you know, screen time alert. So I can a hundred percent see how, you know, exposure to nature and NatureDose specifically could kind of take a similar place in someone's mind driving some of their behaviors. 

[00:17:02] Jared Hanley: Yeah, that's the hope. And I mean, it is funny. I mean, it's, it's an app, it's telling you not to use, use it or use any other apps. It's unplugged. And we really, it's not an activity tracker. It's like a lifestyle, like a wellness monitor or guide, if you will, to just say. Particularly like, if we notice you have not been outside in two days, we highly recommend you go for a walk and here's a park that's three blocks away.

[00:17:24] I think that kind of like nudge or information and we're actually doing some really cool studies, primarily around mental health, so measuring when people are outside, are they actually happier or less, less anxious. And that this has been done via surveys and small sample sizes, but now we'll be able to do it at scale.

[00:17:42] And I think that'll be really, really insightful.

[00:17:44] Richard Simms: Very cool. And I know that you all see potential really across the board, but just taking NatureDose as the one I'm referencing right now, like incorporating these things into other platforms and playing nice with other devices and things. And I think that makes a lot of sense, so I assume you all are

[00:18:04] constantly like brainstorming on what partnerships are out there that could really broaden the impact. 

[00:18:11] Jared Hanley: Yeah. You know, I think the gold standard really is to have this be something that's just prescribed by your doctor or your therapist uses it. And in a NatureDose is one of many features that can be remotely monitored. But that's really where we would like to get where really insurance companies realize that, you know, we just, we need to focus on wellness and preventative medicine at one, basically free

[00:18:35] way to do that with, with no, no, I mean, you don't need a professional to prescribe it. There's no side effects other than maybe a little bit of a sunburned or you might get a bug bite occasionally. Just as generally accessible, it's just to get people outside. And we're not even recommending that you have to exercise or walk.

[00:18:53] I mean, you literally just need to go sit in a park. So, and we we've shown that this a lot of benefits. So it's, it's kind of a simple, low hanging fruit that is proven to be quite effective. So we'd love to get it into the general, I would say, preventative medicine realm. But I think even for just individuals who, you know, like to optimize their health and you want to monitor how much time they actually are spending outside, which for most people is, is shockingly little.

[00:19:19] There's no other tool out there that can do that. In addition to that, you know, as far as we're aware, we're the only people that can also understand how much time you're spending and in proximity to nature. Because, you know, there's, there's studies where they show if you walk around in an urban environment or walk in a natural environment, the impact on your bio markers are profoundly different.

[00:19:37] So, it's very clear that you actually need the biodiversity and expose yourself to these, these certain types of environments to get all the benefits. So, yeah, I think general wellness and health care applications are probably two of the biggest arenas for where NatureDose is going. And it'll, it'll likely be a feature embedded in other apps.

[00:19:57] I mean, we are going to have our own app if you just want to focus on NatureDose. But, we see it as an additional feature in many other health and wellness apps.

[00:20:04] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:20:05] Absolutely. So, you know, we all know startups are difficult. It can be a daunting journey that that's largely why this podcast exists is to, you know, for folks out there that are working on something or considering taking a leap, knowing they're not alone. And hopefully getting some valuable takeaways.

[00:20:26] So I'd love to hear from you just, what are some of the biggest challenges you all have faced? I know that, you know, we've discussed some of like the more unique technical challenges in terms of just what you all are trying to accomplish, which I'm definitely interested in, but also just more broadly. You know, just from a business perspective or personal level, you all have been at it a couple years, I believe, what are the biggest things that come to mind that have, have been?

[00:20:50] Jared Hanley: I would say one of the first and the biggest is, you know, the notion of, of nature as a health tool is relatively new, at least in the States. I would say overseas in many countries, it's common. Actually in Japan, I think 40% of the population does what they call forest bathing on a regular basis.

[00:21:07] But here in the States, it's just a new concept. And so we found that really just education has been more of a challenge than the technology or the products themselves, because people don't understand what a nature prescription is or why it's important. And so that's been a bit of an uphill battle. I think it probably will be for a while.

[00:21:24] Despite, you know, all the scientific literature demonstrating the benefits, people just aren't aware of it. So that's one problem. The other thing I think we've struggled with is there's, there's turned out to be so many apps, so many applications for our data that we spent a lot of time doing research, which is fascinating

[00:21:41] and I think very important and really core to our mission, but it doesn't pay the bills. And so prioritizing, you know, our focus on, on products that are marketable and revenue generating versus working with universities is, has been a tough balance.

[00:21:58] Richard Simms: Yeah, I can imagine. And obviously we've spoke to this a few times, but I think all the ways it can be applied, very good problem to have, but makes it harder to focus. So I totally get that and yeah, it's interesting. You're for first point, you know, kind of educating the market to a degree, right? I think is a lot of times something people don't budget for, for lack of a better word, even if that's not financial, but just the, the efforts that required.

[00:22:28] Obviously my impression is not that you all are like so bleeding edge in this, that it's too soon. 'Cause I think there is like a very much organically growing awareness on all fronts. But yeah, I totally get in. And I hadn't really thought about that for you all. I assume especially early on it was like very, very novel and, and I'm sure for some people just bridging that gap between warm and fuzzier. Like, "Yeah,

[00:22:54] it's, we get that. It's nice to be in nature to the real proven, you know, data backed reality." I'm sure is something, you know, a lot of folks, it will take some time for them to come around. 

[00:23:07] Jared Hanley: Yeah. Yeah, no, we're constantly saying, "Nature is not a luxury." It's, it's an essential component to our health. It's a necessity. And most people haven't thought about it that way. 

[00:23:17] Richard Simms: Yeah. 

[00:23:17] Jared Hanley: I mean, if you look at the way our cities are designed and the fact that we are all now, generally living in cities, you know, 75% of us are now in urban environments,

[00:23:26] we're not going outside. Proximity to nature is, is actually quite minimal for many people. It's, it's just, we're slowly changing the way we live and it's dramatically different than 99.9% of our human history. This really is, this urban century is what we're going into and it's just new. It's new for everybody.

[00:23:46] And we don't quite comprehend kind of what are the in, the impacts of everyone living in these dense cities and urban environments with little access to nature. And the data is proven out that there's quite a few problems so that creates for us that we need to manage.

[00:24:01] Richard Simms: Yeah. Yeah. One question I have, this is a little bit out of left field. But I think about this with you all and then, you know, other kind of work we do related to datasets and public health and equity issues and I know from, let's say like a data science perspective, we're obviously very careful about correlation versus causation, right?

[00:24:24] I of course believe, and I think it's, you know, non debatable, 

[00:24:28] that

[00:24:29] exposure to nature has some degree of causation, but it's like when you talk about these issues how do you kind of carefully thread that needle of like, "Hey, we really obviously think there's interaction here, but of course it's a really complex system where, you know, someone's not strictly getting cancer because they're not close enough to trees." But it's all related in a way. You know, I just kind of curious your thoughts on that.

[00:24:53] Jared Hanley: It's, it's a very complicated web that, you know, so what you're talking about is all the covariates that you need to account for, when you're trying to determine how a single element is associated or even a cause of another event. And so when we, we, we do our say community based analysis, we try and account for as many of those covariates as we can.

[00:25:13] We look at demographic data, we look at socioeconomic data, we look at the populations age and things like air pollution or other elements that may be imparting benefits or, or harm on that community. And we try and essentially create two identical communities where the only delta between those communities is the presence of nature,

[00:25:32] and see if you still see a material difference in health outcomes. And that has proven to be the case repeatedly. The reason that's I think even exceptionally difficult here in the States is, nature is not equitably available. You really see the richer communities just have more access to nature and they obviously have more access to healthcare and they probably have better diets and all the rest.

[00:25:56] And so adding those covariates in and making sure that you're only capturing the influence of nature is quite difficult. We actually are, we have a paper that we did with Harvard that's going to be coming out in the next couple months, examining, kind of the inequities and access to nature in the US and they're quite profound.

[00:26:13] You know, as I mentioned, you know, the wealthier, generally wider communities just have more nature. And there's many reasons for that, but that is something that we can use our data to address, because we're now able to quantify that delta and help city managers really see it and, and hopefully correct it as best they can.

[00:26:33] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:26:33] Absolutely. Super interesting. And I think that complex web of influences, I think also plays out in a very positive way, hopefully on the back end, which is, you know, more exposure to nature doesn't just change this other one dependent variable as you've spoken about in this episode. Yes, it will make your mental health better, but it will also make you physically healthier.

[00:27:00] You know, there's a bunch of things there that kind of, you know, snowballs into a much bigger impact on a person or a community, I think. So it's super interesting. 

[00:27:10] Jared Hanley: In our NatureDose we really provided the next level of data, right? So right now, most of the data that we have is either small population survey data where it's, it's maybe interventional, but it's a couple thousand people or it's this community-based like census track health data. But once we have a lot of people using our NatureDose app, and maybe they have an Apple watch on or Fitbit, and we're getting all their other biomarkers,

[00:27:33] so we know how they're sleeping. Right? We know their, maybe their blood pressure. They may report on their mood, their heart rate variability. We'll be able to very clearly identify by the individual how is nature exposure in impacting their health broadly. And we're doing this actually with a couple of studies at University of Oregon now where we're looking at nature exposure and mental health in teens.

[00:27:55] And we're quite excited to, to hopefully be able to fair it out, you know, for the teens that haven't been outside in days, you know, what is, what is their mental state versus the ones that have had time outside to relax or socialize. 

[00:28:07] Richard Simms: Oh, yeah. And I'm sure there's going to be a lot of stories to tell from that data. I can imagine what the trends are there. So, so far with NatureQuant or NatureQuant's, excuse me, what would you describe as you all's biggest wins? 

[00:28:24] Jared Hanley: Yeah. You know, when you go into this and you create these, these massive complicated data sets, you know, in theory, you, you expect results to be consistent with, you know, all the other past studies and our results were quite positive, statistically significant and highly predictive of things like longevity and heart disease.

[00:28:43] So that was, very excited to see that we've created a tool that is clearly associated with these observed health outcomes, and can provide a lot of information and insight to, you know, city planners and then maybe healthcare systems or maybe even individuals. I would say, just having the data prove out was is, is very pleasing to see.

[00:29:04] And we, we we've had a lot of small wins like that and hopefully we'll have a few more, but I would say that's, that's the biggest win. 'Cause I mean, at the end of the day that's really what, where this data is valuable, right? If it creates a predictive tool and if the NatureDose can be an effective interventional tool and we can really start improving public health or understanding real estate better or preventing urban heat islands or whatever we apply towards,

[00:29:28] and it's proven effective that that's the win. 

[00:29:31] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:29:31] for sure. And I know that you all's mission I think is, is a really good one where there can be just tremendous positive impact. And of course, I know this, you know, just from my interactions with you all, but it's not some vanity data, you know, that again is just kind of a super subjective, warm and fuzzy.

[00:29:53] Like I'm sure you all are confident in what the data would demonstrate, but yeah, I'm sure every validation and affirmation you all have received about, you know, the real impact is just that much more inspiring to, to push the mission further. 

[00:30:10] Jared Hanley: Well, I think this field in general has a history of being somewhat touchy, feely and for lack of a better term. I mean, you can go back thousands of years and people have always said, you know, like, "The magic air is in the mountains," or just, "Go in nature, you know, for these spiritual benefits." But now we have the hard data to prove it out.

[00:30:28] And so it's, you know, we wanted to always be data first, and that's, that's really what we've done and it's, and it's worked out quite well. 

[00:30:35] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:30:35] That makes total sense. So for NatureQuant, let's say, five years from now like what, what does success look like to you? What do you think, you know, the platform looks like and what kind of impact do you hope you all will be having then? 

[00:30:53] Jared Hanley: Well, I mean, our, our, the super big goal is to have like, like the fourth ring on the Apple watch be the NatureDose, right? That's kind of the pie in the sky, but I think just generally just continue to raise public awareness around the impacts of nature on health and have more and more people use it as a, as a health tool as it essentially a freeway, free and accessible way to for all of us to improve our health.

[00:31:16] So, you know, I think partnering with a lot of, you know, large medical institutions would be helpful partnering with other large health and wellness applications would be helpful. You know, you're going to start seeing us on more like real estate listing sites. So I think that's going to help raise awareness where people start thinking about, "Oh yeah, it's important to have nature in my community.

[00:31:33] Because I think that'll create a virtuous cycle where people start valuing nature more, right? That they think it's important and you know, they start planting more trees or putting more park space or preserving the nature that already exists in proximity to at-risk communities. So I think, you know, there's many ways that, you know, I think we can, we can see success in the next 5 to 10 years.

[00:31:52] Richard Simms: Yeah, absolutely. And I definitely of course have a lot of faith in what you all are doing in the future, but I think, I think there will be that tipping point where, you know, just that concept of a quantified NatureScore will really, you know, get the moment and going in that direction. 'Cause you're to your point earlier, I think, you know, just hardwired into us mostly in a way that is good is like, if we can kind of quantify something and monitor it. You know, I think it just becomes a lot more ingrained

[00:32:24] of course, than just talking about it kind of, kind of vaguely. So, super excited. One of the questions I always like to ask of course, is for someone in the early stages of trying to pursue a new product, especially in, you know, healthcare, public health, wellness space, what kind of advice would you give them based on your experience so far? 

[00:32:47] Jared Hanley: Oh, well, I think the one thing that I've I've learned repeatedly is that everything is always twice as complicated as you expect. 

[00:32:56] Richard Simms: Right. 

[00:32:56] Jared Hanley: Even just the simple definition of nature has been something that we've struggled with endlessly. And, you know, like, as you mentioned, all these other covariates like these socioeconomic factors are are big issues, you know. We thought, "Oh, let's just create this nature tracking tool and it will be great."

[00:33:13] And then you start realizing that for a lot of people, they don't feel safe going outside, right? They certainly don't feel safe going into the woods. And so there's all these other things that, you know, we just didn't anticipate. Things are always more complicated than you expect. And so, I ca I don't know what you can do about that other than just brace yourself forward and, you know, create a great team to fight through those struggles.

[00:33:33] But I would say that that's the one lesson I've learned.

[00:33:37] Richard Simms: Yeah.

[00:33:38] I mean, I think that's great advice and I, I think kind of the a good rule of thumb is like, yeah,

[00:33:43] it's probably going to take twice as long as you think. And in a lot of instances costs twice as much as you think. You know, and, and particularly when you get into building digital products, it, it, it does just come with the territory there's unknowns, you know, there's all these edge cases, like what you're describing, which is like, yeah,

[00:34:01] how do we accommodate for folks that want to go outside, but, you know, for these reasons you described it's not necessarily in their best interest. So, I totally get it. And I think, yeah, for folks that are, you know, kind of newer to startup world, I do think that's important. It's just to have a realistic sense that nothing is simple, you know. And, and no building, no app is simple.

[00:34:24] You know, there are degrees of complexity, but there's no simple.

[00:34:29] Jared Hanley: Yeah.

[00:34:30] Richard Simms: Is the truth. So I guess taking a step back, you know, it's a big question, but broadly and kind of the health and wellness space, like from a technology perspective, you know, what do you see as like the big future trends that are really going to drive innovation in the, in those spaces? 

[00:34:48] Jared Hanley: Yeah. Well, I mean, I kind of feel like this, one of the way, the future of healthcare in one ways is more enviromental and, activity-based then obviously treating ailments. You know, there's this, this notion that your, your, your zip code is more influential on your health than your DNA, and that's proven to be the case repeatedly.

[00:35:08] So I think the more that, you know, kind of the healthcare system broadly can understand the environments in which people are operating and then also the way they're behaving, rather than just analyzing the elements that their experience really as a preventative approach is important. And we now can measure a lot of these elements

[00:35:24] very precisely. We know if you grew up next to a gas station, for example, right? So we know what kind of fumes you've been sucking in. With all these digital wearables, we know how active you are, how you're sleeping, are you getting outside, which turns out to be very important. So I think, you know, the future of healthcare is as I see it as is really aggregating all of this big data into kind of a customized preventative model, rather than just having people come in with elements and be reactionary. Because it's, it's becoming cheaper and more accessible to do so.

[00:35:55] Richard Simms: Yeah, absolutely. And I totally agree. Like, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's kind of this combination of, you know, much bigger data sets being available, much better tools to, you know, analyze and visualize those data sets in a way that is compelling and tells a story. And I think of course, just that shift towards yeah, more like individual behavioral, preventative approach.

[00:36:23] So I love that and I, I think there's a lot of ways obviously that NatureQuant can be a big part of that. So great. So it looks like we're about out of time. Thank you so much, Jared. This has been awesome. Before we sign off, where can listeners go to connect with you and learn more about NatureQuant? 

[00:36:42] Jared Hanley: Yeah, well, I'm on LinkedIn. It just Jared Hanley. You can go to our website naturequant.com We have several white papers up there that really dive into the science around nature. And then also, you know, we are conducting studies all the time using our technology. So if anyone's interested in participating, we'd love to have you. You can sign up on our kind of email list there as well.

[00:37:03] Richard Simms: Awesome. 

[00:37:04] Jared Hanley: Oh. 

[00:37:05] Richard Simms: Oh yeah. Good ahead. 

[00:37:06] Jared Hanley: Well, I was going to mention. And we're going to be an outside magazine next week, so you can learn more about us there. Early September.

[00:37:11] Richard Simms: Fantastic. Yeah.

[00:37:12] Congratulations. And I feel like I've seen you all getting a lot of good coverage and PR, so like that's, that's a, you know, make, make a big difference, I'm sure. So, well, thanks again. It's been great having you on the Digital Footprint and you know, really appreciate it and excited about the future for NatureQuant's.

[00:37:29] So thanks again. 

[00:37:30] Jared Hanley: Great. Thank you, Richard.