Changing Education Through Strong Leadership | E175

From my own shift from the world of engineering to the vibrant classrooms of teaching, I've experienced firsthand the electrifying impact of project-based learning (PBL) on both engagement and academic success. In our latest episode, I peel back the layers of this educational revolution, revealing how PBL not only boosted student performance but also increased attendance and diminished disciplinary issues. I open up about the inception of a PBL-centered school within a school, offering a blueprint for empowering leadership in education that could rewrite the narrative for students and teachers alike.

The conversation takes an inspiring turn as we introduce Maureen, a relentless advocate for inclusivity and personalized learning who is deeply committed to lifting up marginalized communities. With her at the helm of a micro school, we go deep with the concept of these small, relationship-focused educational settings that strike a delicate balance between traditional practices and the innovative changes crucial for addressing each student's individual journey. Maureen's story is a testament to the power of aligning teaching with passion and creating an educational culture that leaves a lasting impact.

We then cast a spotlight on the groundbreaking Microschool Grant Program with Getting Smart, exploring how it's fueling small schools in underprivileged areas to blossom and innovate. The episode wraps up with a discussion on the symbiotic relationship between education and business partnerships, and the ripple effect of students who return to their alma maters as educators, keeping the legacy of a nurturing the system alive. Join us as we explore these transformative tales and consider the future of education where every student's potential is not just recognized but fervently pursued.

CONNECT WITH MAUREEN

www.LEAD-Prep.org

https://www.gettingsmart.com/learning-innovation-fund/

 maureen@gettingsmart.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenoshaughnessy/

Consulting/Podcast: www.educationevolution.org

TEDx Talk: Changing My Mind to Change Our Schools | Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy | TEDxDerryLondonderryStudio

Book: Creating Microschools for Colorful Mismatched Kids

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Transcript

Ryan Steuer: 0:00

Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast, where we're looking to support movement makers. Just like you See, we want 51% of schools using project-based learning by 2051, and we know there's no way we can do that on our own. We've only got 37 years to pull this off, so we need to start a movement, and not just a movement. We need a movement of movement makers, which is why you're tuning in, because you wanna know how do I lead a classroom or a school or a district to move towards project-based learning, towards a student-centered environment, to shift the educational process where our learners are no longer passive, they're empowered. If that gets you fired up, you're in the right place. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer, chief inspiration officer at Magnify Learning, and this is the PBL Simplified Podcast where we talk about all things PBL. We do that with leadership episodes on the first and third Wednesdays. On the second Wednesday, we do a PBL showcase where we talk to a teacher, a principal that's in the trenches in the schools, and we hear from them and how project-based learning is changing their classroom, changing the lives of their learners. Today, on this last Wednesday, we have a leadership guest. We bring you someone that is gonna improve your leadership style, improve your leadership chops is how I was just talking to a principal about this. She was gonna take on a new school. She's like I think I need to up my leadership chops and it's like I love that idea that. Can I do this? Yes, I can Do. I need to grow. Do I need to learn? Yes, I do. So that's what we do. That's what the podcast is here for to support you, to add value to you as a leader, so that you can go and lead well. Now, if you're just tuning in for the first time, you really wanna go to whatispblcom. That's whatispblcom, and you can get some free resources right out of the bat and you can share them with your teachers, you can share them with your leaders and it's just a place for you to start. We all need a place to start.

Ryan Steuer: 1:58

I started actually as an engineer and then moved to eighth grade English on the Southwest side of Indianapolis and I left a lot of math credits on the table and I was teaching traditionally and I was not seeing the results that I wanted to see. You know, as an engineer, I'm a pretty data driven, pretty geeky guy, so I kept asking, like, how do we know what we're doing is working and it's pretty insane. So I was in eighth grade, so I had this four year loop to find out if kids were graduating. Well, sometimes it didn't take that long, right, I had a learner that dropped out the first semester of his freshman year. I was like, well, that loop didn't take long. That's not the data I'm looking for. So project based learning came along and I had a crazy friend in this school who said, hey, I think this could work and I was looking for something different. I didn't care what it was, I was there for results and I didn't want the status quo to continue where learners were just dropping out, even if they liked me and thought I was cool. That's not why I was there. So let's try this project based learning thing.

Ryan Steuer: 2:58

So we launched a school within a school. Seventh and eighth grade kids were getting project based learning what we used to call wall to wall and still do and there were four content classes. So math, science, english and history. They were getting project based learning. We intertwined the standards and created some really neat experiences for kids where they were interacting with community partners. They were presenting to community partners and it was amazing, attendance was up 2% in urban school, which is a really big deal with 25% of the kids but 8% of the discipline. And in F school we would have been a B if you looked at standardized tests.

Ryan Steuer: 3:35

So kids were coming to school, they were doing what they were supposed to be doing and for the most part, right, they're still 8% like they're still kids. It wasn't totally magical. I still had to grade five paragraph essays, like those things were all there, but kids were engaged and they were empowered and they were getting skills they would not have gotten otherwise. I'm like this is why I got an education, so pretty fired up about it. But it's really neat to just think through the idea that, you know, had a first day, right. Like we all have a first day, whether it's in the classroom or whether it's with PBL, whatever it is. So if you're a leader, you wanna keep that in mind, right.

Ryan Steuer: 4:06

What does that first day of PBL look like for your team? What does it look like in the first faculty meeting that you have, where you first say the word PBL? You know, those are things that we walk with principles with, like we walk down that path with them. We say, well, let's look at, you know the agenda for this first day of PBL. What do the first 30 days look like? That's kind of our new pieces.

Ryan Steuer: 4:26

You know, what do the first 30 days look like? How can we walk with you in that direction? And one of the ways we do that is we bring you again on this podcast. We bring you people that are farther down the journey than you may be right, they're farther down the path so you can see how they started and you can hear where they're at and be like oh, here's where I am, how do I get there? And we're hoping that we are kind of unveiling that path. We don't have any secrets here. We wanna share everything that we have and if you've got questions, especially on the podcast, like I wanna hear them. So you can actually go to pblsharecom, pblsharecom and you can leave a comment or you can ask a question and I'll respond to that question to you directly, and then we'll also have it here on the podcast. And that's how we know that we're staying boots on the ground is we're answering your questions on the podcast.

Ryan Steuer: 5:12

So today is a leadership episode. Our guest is someone that's been in education for 30 years and not just embracing the status quo, quite the opposite pushing buttons, pushing the envelope. I think you're gonna love this interview. Welcome to the PBL Simplified Podcast. I'm your host, ryan Stoyer. Visionary leaders you were in the right spot if you were investigating project-based learning, if you wanna do learning a little bit differently and you're trying to figure out your vision. Maybe you've been doing this for a while or maybe you're just getting started.

Ryan Steuer: 5:43

We have some PBL showcase episodes for your teachers, but this one is for you. So we bring in a leadership guest and today this guest is gonna speak directly to you because she's done this work as a school leader. So today we have Dr Maureen O'Shaenasi, and she's on a mission to connect the dots between education, belonging and youth empowerment. Maureen helps schools become more inclusive spaces for all learners, using her vast experience of both creating and leading schools. She is a mother, a career educational activist, with over 30 years of transforming learning. Maureen helps schools shift to better serve all students. I like that word shift. We should talk about that a little bit too.

Ryan Steuer: 6:25

She aims to disrupt the education climate as we know it, to create learner-centered education powered by passion and purpose, leading to real-world experience and preparation. She's got some TEDx experience as well. She's got some great talks out there. Super glad to have her on the show. Maureen, thanks for being with us.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 6:42

Ryan, thank you, I'm really pleased to be here.

Ryan Steuer: 6:45

Yeah, I love, I love the extended bio, because it's almost hard to get all of it in, because you've led schools in other countries, right, whether it's been Hungary or Kuwait, you've led a small school. We're going to give this some more of these details. I think maybe I'm just too excited for our leaders to kind of hear from you right, because this is why our leaders turn in.

Ryan Steuer: 7:05

We've got principals, assistants, superintendents that are listening to the podcast and they're trying to figure out how they do this, and we always push them towards their why. So the first question of any guest is what is your why for the work that you do, maureen?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 7:20

Boy. It has always been about since I was a youth. It's always been about being really aware of marginalized communities and saying, no, we can do better. And so in the field of education, to me that is the kid that doesn't really have a home, the gifted kid that is, like you know, not feeling challenged or engaged, the kids that it just isn't connecting for. And then outside of the school realm, I get to do some work with Rotary Club and sexual exploitation and some immigrant work. So I really just want us to acknowledge everybody's beautiful uniqueness and make sure in schools that we are making it work for every learner.

Ryan Steuer: 8:09

Yeah, so good. So you're in the right seat, you're on the right podcast, right? We're trying to do education differently. We're doing that because we're trying to reach all learners. So thank you for that. Why I like your example too, and I think we'll hit on a couple of different things of like your house and your what so, like how you're living out that, why? Because you've done it in a couple of different spaces, and I think that makes sense too, because the leaders that are listening I want you to hear this too that maybe you're a coach and then you're a principal, then you're an assistant superintendent, moving to a different position or a different building, you can still have the same why.

Ryan Steuer: 8:43

So let me transition that right into your first question, maureen, because you've led schools that are across the globe and your why goes throughout. So what's a common thread that you have that you're working to bring to each school that you're working with?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 8:58

Well, I definitely like knowing who are the teachers and what are they into and how can they bring that in. When teachers are connected to their passion and purpose, kids get it. I mean, we had one teacher at our micro school that was into ultimate frisbee and would connect on breaks and on our Wednesday service days and stuff like that with the kids and they would do different outdoor activities. But really where are the teachers coming from? Because top down leaders we all know that doesn't work. Bottom up takes support and that's why I went into administration. I got to start a school within a school as a high school teacher and only because the administrator is like, yeah, let's get this done and I saw the power she had, it's like, wow, I want to be that force for good. So when teachers have great ideas that serve and that are really learner centered, I can remove the barriers, the obstacles, help them, make that happen.

Ryan Steuer: 9:53

Yeah, so good. There's a lot of good things that our listeners can pull out of that. And Danny Bauer, who is a leader of leaders at better leaders in schools right, If we love Danny, right.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 10:03

I fan girl Danny. He's been awesome and he helped me when I was writing my books, starting my podcast. Danny is the real deal.

Ryan Steuer: 10:10

Right, yeah, so you're leaning on the right people, he always told me, because we got some feedback one time on the podcast and somebody said you know well, it'd be great if you could pull out some more insights for us to use. And Danny's like no, ryan, you just crush it with your guests. You talk about great things. It's a listener's job to be active and pull those things out, right, so I love it because then it just lets us have a conversation, but so many good nuggets in there.

Ryan Steuer: 10:33

So, maureen, you founded and led leadership preparatory academy in Washington for 10 years and this one has me super curious. So it's described as a micro school. Now, what is a micro school? How does it fit into other educational experiences that you have?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 10:50

That is so funny. I wrote a book on micro schools and Good Morning America during that summer of 2020 called and asked me the same question. It's like, oh my gosh, I want some really fancy answer. And I said it's a small school, you know. It's like, oh, but it just it. The magic is when we're smaller, whether it's a school within a school or a micro school standing alone we can be so much more relational and most educators really want that.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 11:21

I didn't want five classes of 30 kids revolving every 55 minutes where it took forever to learn their names and wait a minute. When I got to do a school within a school in the big high school, the relationships came and I felt like I was making a connection and playing to their strengths. So small can really really unpack learning and understand learning differences and learning preferences. So small is magic, even though it's not a fancy. You know definition small schools, small communities. Kids don't fall through the cracks.

Ryan Steuer: 11:54

Yeah, and I'm good with simple.

Ryan Steuer: 11:59

So I like that. And if you go to the school's website, go to Leader Prep Academy and put in Washington and pops up and you get like a video that maybe student created and that's what the students tell you. Right, it's like I love people know me, I love the people here are nice to me and they accept me. Right, and you can tell there's a small school vibe and the kids get it and there's so many ways to do schools right. Like some people are listening, like you know, maybe you're the fifth largest district in Indiana, the second largest district in Kentucky, but we also work with real small schools, right, that those are systems that are out there. And I liked your TED talk and we're going to bounce off because so listeners, I gave more in some questions, but it sounds like we're going to bounce off here. In your TEDx talk you talked about this idea of you know we're kind of pushing this boulder up as we're looking at changing education and it feels like that. I get that.

Ryan Steuer: 12:56

But you also have a statement in there where you're talking about kind of this, both and some duality piece of you know, there are things even in traditional education that work and we should probably grab some of those, and there's things in learner centered and we grab some of those. What are some things in a micro school that any leader could grab, do you think, even if it's a larger school? What are some things you're just like, yes, these, these work.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 13:17

Competencies. Every educator wants their students to leave their class with certain skills, certain competencies. We all want to be a value add. We don't want kids just to come and sit in our class for 55 minutes or whatever. So I think competencies are in common and ideally embedded. Competencies that are met, as you so expertly explain, through projects, through real-world learning, tying into kids' passions and purposes, but definitely competencies.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 13:50

I think most teachers, unless they are super overwhelmed and just are on survival mode, want to go beyond control and have students take more responsibility, more accountability and have more of that opportunity to own their learning. So I think that's a commonality. When we're not wiped out and I know a lot of educators are wiped out and school leaders if you're adding things to their plates like PBL or competency-based learning, I sure hope you're taking things off of their plates and that you're getting their buy-in and how and what's the best way to do it, Because this top-down and continuing to add has led to the great resignation. Teacher sin, yeah or not? I think I'll go somewhere else and have a quality of life again.

Ryan Steuer: 14:33

Right, and so it's such a great time to push right, to push on some things that have always been in education, and maybe we can tweak that. Maybe it doesn't have to be there anymore, maybe we can do something different that helps our teachers, that then helps our learners. And one that I think is interesting on Lead Prep's website, there's a statement that pops up. It says Trading in hours of homework for active learning. That seems like a great trade to me, right, so can you tell us a little bit more about what does that look like in real life?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 15:00

Well, we've seen there have been studies done that these kids that are really study and nail an AP test and they've had hours of homework to prepare and are very rigorous in quotations education then six months later they can't pass the same test. So working hard in short-term memory to pass a test, it's like, wait a minute. What if we really embed the competencies in real-world learning and the kids have a connection to it so they want to get engaged and they're like, hey, I could do this and I could do that. And if they're doing something out of school it's because of their passion and they're super engaged. And what if we don't say our memorization and writing are what we consider rigor, and heaven forbid.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 15:49

Outside of school we want them to apply their skills in a job or get involved in martial arts or do work on their Boy Scout Eagle project Heaven forbid.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 15:58

We want them to have time to cook with their family and have that balanced life.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 16:04

We're struggling as educators for that balance and yet we tell the kids we want you to work all day and then go home and work some more, and that's what's burning out teachers. So the irony is it's not effective, it's not what we believe in, it's not what we want for ourselves. So, to me, if we embed the learning, the competencies, make it active based during the school day, when we can coach the kids, which is flipped learning, which I love, and I'm a big John Bergman fan where the mini lesson is a mini video or something like that that comes home the night before so they know the key content and they unpack it during the day. That frees the coaches up, the teachers up, to go around and work with the learners instead of correcting hours of busy work, homework that kids copied or did last minute or didn't do it all, and gets us back to competency based and teachers really getting to guide and teach kids. So, to me, make it active during the day and then let's all take a break during the evenings.

Ryan Steuer: 17:02

Yeah, I love it. And, to use your metaphor, again, this is the TEDx and we'll link it in the show notes because it's great talk, this idea of pushing the boulder up the mountain and kind of towards the end you're talking about you've got more hands pushing. It feels like there's more people pushing the boulder right to change education and I feel like when tweets go out now about hey, we don't do homework, there's not quite as many hate tweets that go along with. There's more like we're agreeing with that right. So I feel like, especially like in that little topic, like we're making some, some headway and our strong leaders are now saying very strongly we're going to do things differently. And here's why, yes, we can look to Scandinavia.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 17:41

We are so I don't know, xenophobic is a really strong word, but we are so into our US bubble because we're such a big landmass. But Scandinavia has been doing this well forever and like even literacy is not formally taught in a lot of places until like eight years old. But the kids are getting all this bilingual, trilingual, crazy stuff. So when they are like third grade they are nailing, reading, writing, communication in two or three languages. So our model isn't the only model and we're so busy on this hamster wheel that we're not getting to see the great ways learning is happening in other places.

Ryan Steuer: 18:18

Yeah, that's good, and so I'm super glad to have your perspective on the podcast too, some of your global experience, and I think if we ask our teachers like what's happening in the classroom, I think some of these things are pretty self evident. Like you said, we know kids are copying homework just to get it done, you know, to get four out of five points. And I remember I had a three sport athlete and she was a great. She was great in the classroom as well.

Ryan Steuer: 18:42

I just remember one day she like didn't turn it turn in an assignment and I was like, hey, erica, this is kind of weird. Like she's like Mr Stroud, I just couldn't do it and I was like, alright, like that makes sense, like I believe you, like you're learning things, and that that was actually. I was still teaching traditionally then, but it kind of made a shift in my brain of like here's this great student who's developing all kinds of great skills. She's a great person and she can't keep up with what we're giving her in school and at least she's smart enough to say you know, I'm not gonna do this, mr Stoer.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 19:12

And.

Ryan Steuer: 19:12

I love that.

Ryan Steuer: 19:13

Maybe I was the teacher that she could do that with, because she thought I would understand, right, like we had enough relationship where it's like if I'm skipping anybody's homework, it's gonna be mr Stoer's, and I was like you're right, so yeah, I'll have these little experiences though, right? So how do we build it up where we have enough confidence to put that tweet out there that says you know, active learning over is greater than than homework? How do we get there? Maybe as as leaders? How do we help our teachers do? Let's go there.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 19:40

Yeah. So I think there's. We need to be in touch with innovators, like like Danny's Principal groups, his masterminds. You know, john Bergman has learning communities with the flipped learning and the, the Competency-based we need to be infused with. Hey, there are other ways. This is super cool getting smart. I just was at a conference where I got to go and sit in school and Look at how these kids were learning and owning their own learning and pathways, and some kids were actually learning in a zoo and others Going through museums and and they were learning physics through Soundwave classes, you know. So it's like we need to be inspired by what's out there, and sometimes we are so bogged down that we just keep slogging and then so our teachers keep slogging. But we need to take time for that inspiration and we need to surround ourselves with community members that are also Heading that same direction, because if we don't have any new inspiration, we're just gonna keep doing the same old, same old and keep burning out.

Ryan Steuer: 20:46

Yep, love it. Great, push there, let's. Let's pivot, because you've pivoted, so you've pivoted from. You know the schoolhouse. Now You're leading Micro school grant program with getting smart right, mm-hmm. So what's the goal of this grant program and what types of schools are applying for this?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 21:04

It is super exciting. Getting smart has been doing a great job Consulting and inspiring in this whole pathways program and micro credentialing, and now they are starting to give out grants and I have the honor and privilege of being the program manager for this first grant and it's called a big push for small schools and the applicants. We were still in the process with finalists I'm submitting applications but we had over 180 applications from around the US and, amazing, our criteria was 150 kids or less and you have to strongly be serving a marginalized community, innovating and scaling up. So you have to be getting out there and having a bigger impact. So we have some schools that are already. They have like an affiliate model and they're helping others use their model or they're coaching them into a similar model.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 21:56

I can think of an elementary school in California that physical disabilities and physical differences are embedded and that whole. You know universal design is like, of course, no-brainer. Yeah, large Catholic archdiocese that is losing, you know, in in some urban areas with a low income, you know they're losing some students. It's like, hey, let's flip these elementary so let's make them multi-aged, let's do some creative things and now let's do it with more. It's just schools that are helping kids, that are in the foster care system, or have a collaboration with a business or a University and are teaming up. They are innovating. And what I really love about this grant is it's about how do we create Communities of practice, how do we get them technical assistance for what they need.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 22:46

I know I had a really hard time with marketing with some of the metrics, so we have an evaluation partner that's gonna make sure that they have clear metrics and can use those and demonstrate. Hey, families, because micro schools are small, not as established often, and so parents are like this isn't what I had when I was in school. So when you can say, hey, here's our data point and here's our growth rate and here's what's happening, when we can use data Effectively. So I'm really pleased that this isn't just this handout. It's really a hand up and communal and learning from each other, and I get to facilitate. I don't have to be the expert. I get to play off of everybody's strengths and and bring this together, and I've opened three Micro schools one in a big high school, one overseas and then my nonprofit in Seattle. So I have definitely have some experience. But it's really about learning together, which is always super exciting, right right.

Ryan Steuer: 23:39

We just we live out kind of our values with education, even as adults, right, if we're doing it well. So I'm sure you're doing the same thing. What exciting program Mm-hmm smaller schools that can really innovate and then share or scale what they're learning. I love that you're giving them some marketing and tracking their data to. That's so big. Yes, we love the student stories, but eventually somebody wants some quantitative data you know of what that looks like and how do you share those stories, right?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 24:06

Exactly, it's both, and storytelling is super important. Yeah, and there are people that really show me the numbers, show me, you know they, they want Both kinds of data and of course they're. They're the consumers. And our kids are our Beloved, most precious part of our lives, so we want to make sure we're helping make good choices for their education.

Ryan Steuer: 24:27

Yeah, we just worked with. I was just working specifically with the oh oh, it's really an online school program in Columbia and they're helping kids in the foster system become bilingual. Wearing Columbia your income almost automatically is four times right if you're bilingual. So it's like Got some programs where it's yeah, I can't think of a almost a better mover right in that situation where you're in a foster care system.

Ryan Steuer: 24:52

And now you just jumped ahead of like 80% of the population because you're bilingual, right you? Just your resume goes to the top all of a sudden. So something really cool, yeah, so good.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 25:01

Mm-hmm.

Ryan Steuer: 25:02

And then so my kind of marketing brain kicked in is like that should be on your front page of everything you do, right? Yes, but sometimes that's a shift you know with, with our schools, because it's like well, I'm, you know, I'm looking at standard space grading and I'm looking these best practices in the classroom. Yes and right. Yes, and you need to market and share your great stories. I.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 25:24

Exactly yes and hello. Let's have our kids sharing the stories, like you saw on the lead prep website. It doesn't have to be that we do this polished and wait, how do I do the camera and what do I do? It's like, hey, kids, tell your story. I mean, my TEDx was recorded by a former student because it was during lockdown, you know. So it's like come on, these guys are so savvy and if they don't have it, they'll figure it out. And if it's home spun, that looks real, that looks student made. And as a parent, I want a place where my kids are engaged. I don't want something that looks polished and professional and kind of stilted. So I totally want student led and student made.

Ryan Steuer: 26:08

Yep Live it out right Like live out the values that you have and it actually gets done right, Like how many super professional videos have we planned and not actually gotten done?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 26:16

Exactly.

Ryan Steuer: 26:16

The kids will get it done in two and a half days, so get my camera. So, maureen, you're on the front edge and it sounds like you're going to be working even more with small schools Like what a great blessing for them. So, as you're looking forward, where do you see the bright spots in project-based learning and engaged learning?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 26:33

Well, like I said, seeing the Tacoma School where it's actually, these programs are huge. Kids get to play to their passions, a sense of purpose. When we went through the health care program the kids were showing us all kinds of really cool tools and showing us. We went station to station and we were asking them so what do you want to do? Afterwards it's like, oh, yeah, I see myself as an x-ray techer, oh, I want to be a pediatric, this and that they weren't saying, oh, I want to be a nurse or a doctor. They had had a chance to really understand broadly what's out there and then say, hey, I really like this, or I really I want to do, I want to be, you know, drawing blood, be a plobotomist.

Ryan Steuer: 27:16

And they're not saying like I want to be an NBA star, right, or I'm going to play football with an older right, like that's what we're always used to hear, right, it's so different.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 27:23

Exactly, and I've had so many kids all say, hey, where are you going to school?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 27:27

And there's this assumption they'll go to a four year school and it'll be where their parents went or their sibling went, and no sense of hey, I've done this dual enrollment and I think I'm going to finish up and get an AA.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 27:39

Or hey, I want to get this vocational certificate, or I want to get these micro credentials, or I want to go to this university because it has this specific program, these hands on, project based programs that tie into passions and purpose, and kids get to know who I am and they're guided into what's out there, what are the possibilities for what's next. A lot of times there's a workforce connection P-Tech has business in the school and kids getting paid internships. So they are savvy and like, hey, this is how it's going to be for me, because and not because, oh, my cousin's at that college and everybody goes to a four year college, I guess I'll do that. They are owning it and people are preparing them for real world and playing to their passions and their sense of purpose. So that's going to translate to life, to vocation, to giving back to the community, to being great citizens.

Ryan Steuer: 28:31

Well, it's so good Seth Godin has a riff on college and that it can be a very dangerous place to just send kids that are not prepared. I'm glad I made it through, but it wasn't the best place to send me, honestly. So it's like when we send kids that don't know, maybe the right way to handle that, all this freedom, suddenly, all these different options it could be a dangerous place, but when kids are going with purpose, they've picked it out, they know the path. It can be a great advantage for them.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 29:00

And these teachers don't go away. They're so engaged with the kids. It's like, hey, now that you've graduated. I heard one teacher say, you and myself, one of our techs, me, I want to hear you know, and we had, they had some kids going on and they were trained paraprofessionals when they graduated. Others getting a four year ride at the private college nearby to become educators and educators of color, so that more teachers look like the student population. So teachers are there and kids know that, hey, I can try this. And if I have a question or get lost or I'm like, wait, I'm not sure, do I want this career path or that? What do I need to know? It's not like the high school teachers are going away. The kids know they have a trusted adult that can help them with college and beyond are usually kind of like hey, good luck. And not so in these programs where there's the relationship and the ongoing connection.

Ryan Steuer: 29:51

Yeah, we just had a guest on back in November so it was episode 155, but she was a learner in a PBL system and loved it, so she became a facilitator for the same system and it's like we're looking at teacher shortage, like how do we get more teachers to come on board? It's like if your learners love it enough, right, if it changes their world enough like they're willing to come back.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 30:15

Like it's so cool, it's the best homegrown. And then the other kids are like, wow, you were one of us and you did this. I could do this. It's so yeah, it's amazing.

Ryan Steuer: 30:27

It's so good. Well, Maureen, thank you for your work. Thank you for coming on today to show us kind of this broader view of things as well. We've got a bunch of your links in the show notes so people can connect with some things. But what's the best way for audience to connect with you and with your work?

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 30:43

You know I would probably just reach out to me in an email, maureen, at gettingsmartcom, I always have time to hear what people are doing and to share our ideas. There's so many cool resources and I love being a connector, like, hey, check this out, or you should talk to this person. So yeah, just email me.

Ryan Steuer: 31:02

Thank you for that. And, listener, I want you to know that you should listen. You should reach out to Maureen because she just said you could right.

Ryan Steuer: 31:10

Like so many times we're like, oh, she wouldn't have time. She's just saying that. Nope, she really believes that she loves this work. She'd love to talk with you. Maureen, thanks for being on today. Thank you for being so generous with your time, as well as the follow-up email. It's such a big deal. Again, we'll encourage our leaders to take you up on that. Thank you for coming on today.

Dr. Maureen O’Shaughnessy: 31:26

Absolutely, maureen. Thank you. Project-based, real-world, student-centered. You're doing it and we have to head that way in education. You've got it, thank you.

Ryan Steuer: 31:37

So good, so good to be on the journey with you, visionary leaders. This is what education can be, right? These are the conversations we should be having. You've got to push the envelope. If you're not having these conversations, just like Maureen mentioned, you need to connect with another community that does that. We've got an online community to connect to.

Ryan Steuer: 31:53

I would highly recommend Danny Bowers Better Leaders, better Schools. He's got masterminds you should connect with. And then you're connecting with leaders across the country, across the globe, talking about pushing innovation and really, and in some points, in some cases, it's survival of your school right and like making sure that you're still around and that you're still healthy. You've got teachers that are coming in. You've got students that are coming in. You've got to be involved in this work and as you do this, as you start to change practice from what used to be to what should be, to what can be, you'll notice that you will begin to engage your learners, you'll tackle boredom and you'll transform your classrooms. So go lead inspired.

Ryan Steuer: 32:29

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the PBL Simplified Podcast. I appreciate you and honor that you tune in each week. Would you please take two minutes to leave a rating and a review. When you leave a review, it lets the next person know that this is a podcast worth listening to. When they go into their player and search project based learning and PBL Simplified popped up, when they see those reviews, they know that high quality, visionary leaders are listening. So they tune in too and they can find their way into the PBL journey. Thank you so much for leaving a review. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you.