In this episode we talk about online church, the scale and scope of online churches and what they are doing at Axis Church to try and not only reach Canada but the world through their online services.
In this episode we talk about online church, the scale and scope of online churches and what they are doing at Axis Church to try and not only reach Canada but the world through their online services.
Transcript of Podcast by Multiply Network
Created to champion church multiplication, provide learning and inspire new disciple-
making communities across Canada
2019 – Harvey Trauter, Axis Church
Paul Fraser: Welcome to the Multiply Network Podcast, a podcast created to champion church multiplication, provide learning and inspire new disciple-making communities across Canada.
Hi there. Welcome to the Multiply Network Podcast. My name is Paul Fraser and I’m the host. I’m so glad that you jumped on today. I’m excited about our guest today. This was a fun interview talking about online church. We interviewed Harvey Trauter from Axis Church. He lives in Langley. He’s doing something kind of unique. I’m not hearing about a lot of people doing this. They are using online services to create house church gatherings literally all over the world. Fascinating. We talked with him a little bit about how they got started, what their hope is, the model, the goal, where they see the future of this going. Harvey’s got some really interesting ideas.
Of course, they are still just figuring it out. They have lots to think through. But they are trying it. They are doing it. I’m so glad they are. I told them to keep good notes so we can all learn from it. The interview is coming up right now.
Q. I am really privileged today to have Harvey Trauter with us from Axis Church and we’re really happy to have you on the Multiply Network Podcast. Welcome.
Harvey Trauter
A: Wow. Awesome to be here with you. Man, this is great.
Q. It is great. This is like so cool for me because when I was in Bible College you were the pastor of the church I attended and saw ministry and how you led. It was just so cool to see what could grow during those years. Yes, so it’s kind of cool now coming full circle.
We’re going to talk a little bit today about online church, which is kind of a new concept. But before we do that, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are, where you live, your ministry history and then we’ll jump into it.
A. Okay. I was a guy who was never going to go into the ministry. I don’t have one of those stories that I was going to be a pastor, or something. I was going to be a business guy. But just obedient step-by-step to go to Bible School and met my wife. When we finished Bible School I kind of went well, I have done this program and I should at least do an internship. So we went to Calgary, actually Calgary First Assembly.
Q. Okay.
A. For six months of internship. It was at one of those times ---
I can show you where. The place ---
Ken Bombay was the associate pastor then. Do you know Ken?
Q. Yes, I do. Love that guy.
A. Everybody knows Ken.
Q. Everybody knows Ken. (Laughter)
A. So Ken says to me, because they’re looking at me as a youth pastor. I was twenty-one. So it just wasn’t fitting so he said to me over breakfast, have you ever thought of planting a church.
Q. Wow.
A. That was the vernacular of the day. I don’t know if I said this exactly but here’s how I tell the story. I say, “Oh, of course I have. I just came from Bible College. We have theories about everything.”
Q. Yes.
A. But I had not planned to. I wasn’t even sure I was going to be a pastor. So my wife and I prayed about it and selected a place around Calgary to plant, which is a community called Airdrie.
Q. Okay.
A. So at twenty-one years of age my wife and I moved out Halloween night and started a church with three families.
Q. Amazing.
A. Yes, it was quite a ride. So man, I knew nothing about anything. So I was a voracious learner, just trying to keep learning, going places, doing things, hearing and so we did that and saw the church grow and move locations and really built an attractional model of church. And we saw the church grow over nine and one-half years we were there.
Q. Amazing. Then from there you went ---
That’s where we connected at West Edmonton Christian Assembly. You were there for a number of years and then on to CLA.
A. Yes.
Q. And you found your home out there?
A. Yes. Well, I kind of felt ---
The story of West Edmonton Christian Assembly first off was I had had this God moment somewhere in January, if God led me to a small little town for the rest of my life, would I do it. So it was a real ---
And I knew you can’t kind of schmooze your way around God because he will call you on it.
Q. Totally.
A. I really prayed about it and died to it. You know what, I have these aspirations which are probably fueled by ego and hopes of achieving things and you know what, I’m going to die to it again like I died to it at college to go into the ministry and said we’ll do it.
About four months later the District of Alberta was looking to see a church planted there so again Doug Stiller comes to me and says, “Hey, have you ever thought of planting another church up in Edmonton?” And my comment, similar to my other comment, was well, if I do that and it fails everybody will know that I was really lucky the first time!
Q. (Laughter)
A. It was that kind of risk. Right. So we moved up there and saw the church grow. And then, to be honest, I was tired and burnt out. If somebody would have said hey, you need a break, can I help you, I probably would have.
Q. Yes.
A. But that wasn’t the language. No one was looking out for me and I wasn’t articulating it well enough so the churches that were calling me started and one of them was Langley. Would you come on and help us with systems? I felt the year earlier that someday we would be on the west coast and I thought I would be here for two or three years. I knew what zero to seven hundred was like. I didn’t know what ---
That’s not where the church was. I didn’t know what over fifteen hundred looked like. So I thought hey, I would get this experience and then in my next experience we can ramp it fast and I’ve learned larger systems.
Q. Yes.
A. We moved to Langley.
Q. And still there today and loving the weather, I’m sure.
A. Loving it, man. It’s a great place to be. Just break out another thousand to move here.
Q. So what do you now? Tell us what you’re doing now because I feel like this is you’re going along, you’re heading down, from a pastoral standpoint, a good career path, just on and on and people are phoning you, and then it feels like you do, I don’t know, a right turn, a full right, maybe a bit of a reverse course. What are you doing now? Why don’t you share a little bit of that journey?
A. Yes. The shift, very briefly, the shift began when I left CLA and started mentoring and coaching church planters. Actually, over the course of the last eight or ten years we have launched, helped plant two other churches. So I wasn’t hands on. I just kind of mentored and coached and provided a charitable oversight and saw two churches in the Vancouver area get planted and going and they are still going and doing well. They are thriving.
And then I have a heart for business people and just walking with them. And then I had this crazy idea. I remember it was a collection of ---
I was with a friend at another location and the pieces of it are interesting but not enough time to talk about. But the idea was hey, what about something online that you could do on an alternate day and connect with people. That was kind of the first part and that would be like, somewhat like a church, I guess.
Q. Yes.
A. And then it began to morph as I got closer to it. In fact, it hit me in the summer about four years ago that I’ve got to do this. I actually felt I had to do it.
Q. Wow.
A. So I began the process of learning what are the systems necessary and as it began to morph, realizing listen – and this is what we may talk about a bit more – was you know what, this needs to be something that we’re creating house churches, house gatherings. I called them micro churches for a while. It didn’t catch on.
Q. Yes.
A. But creating something small. So in fact I was sharing with somebody the other day and he goes like wow, where did you get this idea from? Oh man, that’s great. Oh yeah. And I go well, yeah, just little mini steps of God leading and guiding and just innovating.
Q. And at that point you didn’t really have a pattern to follow. Right? There wasn’t a bunch of people out there, or was there?
A. Yes. I don’t know of any. Everybody streams so we used streaming technology. Everybody streams. Everybody is looking to create what I find, a broader audience. We all want broader audiences. So everybody does that. But as I began to work at it and just theologically I went you’ve got to do this with people. And when we started a few years ago we were saying we’ll teach you how to project an online service we have onto your bigger screen. Now a lot of people do that without even thinking about it. But then we thought we’ll have to show them and what devices ---
Q. Yes.
A. But there were three things I felt should be involved in every service and that was a worship component, a God story – we used to call them testimonies – but a God story, first-person God story, and then a message for about twenty minutes. And then work with it. So that’s kind of the format of it.
Q. Yes. So that leads us into that conversation of Axis Church. What is the model? What is the goal? Because online is a big part of it but that’s not where it ends. That wasn’t the main goal to just get the broader audience. You actually wanted to do what you called house churches. So why don’t you explain for our audience what that looks like and maybe the reach you’re having, not just in Canada ---
I was surprised as we chatted.
–the unlimited possibility of online is pretty incredible.
A. Yes, it is. So the first part of your question I was thinking about what you said in the last part.
Q. Okay. The model. The goal and the reach.
A. Yes. So I started working on the online piece. As soon as you say online church people ---
When you said “Google” twenty years ago people would go like you’re googling. What are you? Are you goggling?
Q. Yes, what does that mean.
A. So as soon as we’ve said something like online church they couldn’t grasp it. They would go like oh, so you’re televising a church on a computer.
Q. Right.
A. They can’t. I realized, it was right when we launched, that was not the goal. The goal was creating small gatherings, I called them earlier micro church, I still think it’s a good term not original with me. Micro church. The idea was that people gathered together and they will always stay small. They will always stay in that kind of environment and then we’ll do something to help them have a gathering so they can do what in church concept would be simple church. It’s not complicated and they’re not trying to get to the next stage and create a pastor and a salary or anything like that. The idea is always keep it small. Always gathering together learning how to.
And then the house gathering, their goal is how can we create community with the people who are there and then how can we reach our community around them.
Q. Right.
A. So we say those are the two legs you stand on. It’s real simple, very understandable to them and then we say we’ll provide you with the questions. And as we go along my intention is – we haven’t developed them to the fullest – is we can equip those leaders online and have engagement with them and so forth; how they can lead better, how they can mature and create a whole back end of teaching and training online for members of the house gatherings.
Q. And the idea was for it to reproduce so a house church grows big enough to reproduce itself again and again and again. So the idea wasn’t just to stay small so you can be a little island. That reach part was like ---
A. Thanks for drawing that out. It is absolutely the truth. So the sense of gathering together in community was so that we could effectively be reaching more and more people. It’s simple. We always say we’re going to start with three and then grow from there. And so that kind of a concept of just reaching out and growing.
And then I see it as a real means of reaching cities, you know, but we can unpack that in a bit.
I had a phone call come through part of that so I got distracted.
Q. (Laughter)
A. I saw a squirrel run by!
Q. Yes, I do that too. I get accused of that lots. The thing that I was surprised by but very intrigued by was the fact that you do an English-speaking service but you have these micro churches or house churches all over the world.
A. Yes.
Q. I was surprised by how many there were.
A. Thirty-two countries right now are watching and/or have started a gathering.
Q. Wow.
A. This I found interesting and I thought I would pull it up while we were talking so let me see if I can find it because I got this email reply today. It’s fascinating. They’re from Kenya and the comment was, it’s fascinating how they said it, once I can put my finger on it. So he goes, the basic gist of it is, he goes: So my wife and I have been praying about this since three a.m. and finally she said let’s start. She said we knew this was a person so we invited them to join ---
No. They said we led somebody to the Lord, my wife and I and them and two kids so we can get started now. So what do we do next?
Q. Yes.
A. And so you go like okay, what is traditional thinking? Well, okay, we’ve got to put you in training classes and kind of put you through it.
Q. Yes, yes.
A. What this does in a sense is off-boards it. In fact we onboard people rapidly and then we teach them and remember go to the Holy Spirit because he’s ultimately going to have to guide you, you know.
Q. Yes, yes, yes.
A. So you onboard people very very rapidly and I just thought it was funny last night or early this morning when I got it. So it was very clear. Three a.m. my wife said yes. Like were you wearing her down?
Q. (Laughter) Let’s do it. Let’s do it. Let’s go for it. Let’s try this. Let’s try this. See the Axis Church thing. Wow. That’s so cool.
A. So thirty-two countries all around the world and occasionally there are a few countries that are unusual, like Afghanistan and Malaysia, Pakistan. So some of these countries. I also got an email this morning from somebody from Ethiopia who said they just got your message. They said with the troubles in Ethiopia the government had kind of shut down the Internet piece so I just got your message.
Q. Wow.
A. So it’s like ---
It’s become this very much a missionary strategy.
Q. Yes. And like you said before there’s worship that you guys do and there’s a God story and then there’s a short message that gives them questions. It seems pretty simple but it is catching on with these groups all over the world.
A. Yes. So I think we’ll morph and change and adjust but we kind of go with a forty-five or fifty minute presentation. And of course we’re not the big deal. Their life is the big deal. We’re empowering them. So the message is twenty minutes. You go like we could expound much more. But yes, let’s get them discussing. Let’s get them having time together.
Q. Right.
A. The worship, if they have worship capabilities in their group we tell them, because we let them stream on demand if they are a registered gathering, we give them passwords so they can stream on demand or download so they can play. It’s some technical issues.
Q. Right.
A. But if they get the worship already we say hey, start at the next part. So they have an encouraging word, a point where you talk about finances and the value of that, and we have a God story and then a message. So it’s about a fifty minute experience. And I’m sure it will adjust but I always felt like three things had to happen: worship, testimony and then biblical message. So the concept is very simple.
Q. Yes, yes, yes. So there’s lots of conversation these days on whether online church is actually a church. You and I actually went for coffee last week and I thought you had some good thoughts to say about, like online church by itself, you know, just watching it online, again, you know, lots of churches streaming, people now are probably saying hey, you know what, maybe I don’t need to get up and go to church. I can watch it live at home.
What are your thoughts? There’s lots of conversation. I think this is going to be a bigger conversation for us moving forward. I think online is a big part of our future. I would love to hear your thoughts as kind of being a bit on that innovator, early adopter side of things. What are your thoughts about online church?
A. Yes. I have a number of thoughts and you draw them out if I don’t get the first crack at it.
Q. Okay.
A. Just so you know, let me kind of do the preamble. The preamble is just because I’m doing something different doesn’t mean I’m dissing everything else that we’ve done.
Q. Totally.
A. So I have questions about the things I’ve done in the past. I wonder about them now. But just because it’s different doesn’t mean I’m dissing everything. I do think there are questions we need to ask ourselves which we should always be.
The idea of online. I think we have to ask ourselves why are we online and why are we doing it. If it is maybe to do a widespread ---
We want to have, we want to reach ---
Our congregation is not there, the church service that weekend. But if we’re just broadening our audience that’s great. I actually don’t see a problem in it. It’s just not kingdom by Matthew 28 of making disciples.
Q. Um-hmm.
A. And so when people started ---
I talked to a lot of pastors who are my friends to help support us and I got several questions coming back, and you may want to draw that out at some point. But one of them was the question of they didn’t see it biblical that we didn’t have a church ourselves starting churches. And so the question I came back with in discussing was listen, hey, can you actually broaden the message out there without making disciples. And I think the question is can you do it online? They watch and make it a church? I think no. I think we can reach people. I think we can encourage people. We can win people. We can educate people. But church is all about gathering together and being eyeball-to-eyeball, face-to-face, skin-to-skin. And so that’s where real community happens.
Don’t get me wrong. You can do community with social media and stuff that’s pretty cool. I think there’s an element of face-to-face, unless you are totally isolated from the rest of the world. So I think it has to have that flesh-to-flesh gathering to have that community. And I think a lot of time when we talk about online church we’re just saying online audience. And we call church just people. That’s a nice term.
Q. Yes.
A. So to me it has always been we’ve got to get them together and I think that’s where the magic takes place, or the miracle. When you get these new believers interacting and not ---
You see, I can’t get them dependent on me. So if they’re just audience they depend on the super guru, whoever it is.
Q. Sure.
A. So the magic is, the miracle is when they get together and they share together, then life forms there with them and then everything gets shut off, like Ethiopia, they pull the plug around the world, and all of a sudden they’re going like whoa, we’ve been doing this. We can just keep doing it.
Q. Yes. So tell me then because I can hear some pastors out there going you know, and you don’t have to defend anything. I’m actually wanting your take on it, and I love how you said that you’re not dissing anything or you’re not shutting down what the other things are and saying we’re so much better, we’re so much front edge. I think Rick Warren says you need all types of churches to reach all kinds of people. I think that’s true.
In your mind though what is the difference then between ---
And we talked a little bit about this at our coffee. What is the difference between a small group and a church? You’re sending the signal, they are downloading it, they are watching it. In your mind what is the difference between a small group and these house church, micro church gatherings?
A. It’s all about the empowerment of the people. Okay? So if we’re fully empowering them like we think we are when we intentionally create consumers I think we’re fooling ourselves. So I think, and we’re keeping it small enough so that it’s only two steps; create community, do all the one another’s with each other and then strategize to reach the community. So I think those two dynamics have great power because they are simple. Right.
Q. Yes.
A. So they can be multiplied very very rapidly. So and then together in a bigger group, yes, I think those things can happen spontaneously but creating it with walls, I think that goes against the culture of what we’re trying to do, keeping it small and reaching. And then the strategy which we’re talking about which is how to reach a city ---
Q. Yes, yes.
A. Can you have enough buildings in the city to have the big gatherings?
Q. No, you can’t.
A. Yes. So the early adopters get it and then they tell their great stories. You know, we’re in the Symphony Center and we’ve got thousands of people. I go like, rats, I wish I had thought of it just five years earlier than you, the Symphony Center is taken now, right.
Q. Yes.
A. Everybody has a living room or knows somebody who has a living room. So all of a sudden we can gather together in the cities.
Q. And I think a couple of things you said about this model is it is scalable so it could grow quickly and you could triple in one week. Like there’s hardly any overhead. You can do those simple steps. But I want to just kind of repeat a little bit of what I heard you say about what the difference between a small group and a church is that I think typically small groups don’t multiply. In fact, it’s not really a part of their DNA: most, I wouldn’t say all. I think there would be some small groups in churches that are missional. They go out and do things together and they reach their community. But I think the thing that could shift our thinking between small groups and house church is that empowerment of the people and that it is meant to reproduce itself over and over and over again. So I just want to kind of highlight that because I thought that was a really really good thought about the difference between those types of things. Because the location is the same. It is a living room. It could feel like a small group but the philosophy behind it really is that.
Do you want to add to that a little?
A. I think that is great. One question I heard early on from pastors that were talking about the concept even before we started, the question they asked me was, from friends, they would say “well how are you going to control these?”
Q. Yes.
A. And to my friends I would answer and say that’s a very good North American church question. I’m not so sure it’s a world Holy Spirit directed question. And I think we have to work at proving people, raising them up, don’t get me wrong ---
Q. In quality, excellence, discipleship and all that. For sure.
A. Yes. However, those being the limiters ---
When those become the limiters of God out pouring himself, let’s let a little mess happen so that we’re getting something done in a way that ---
You want a clean barn? Don’t put any oxen there. You want a usable stable you’ve got to pick up garbage.
Q. Yes, yes. I think planting ---
I think if you plant the gospel churches are going to grow. I think that’s the idea. You look at the scriptures, you plant the gospel, the church grows. Sometimes we do the opposite. I said that before. We plant churches hoping the gospel will grow. I think there’s a way for us online to plant the gospel in community in a way that it can grow into house churches, micro churches. People can get discipled and reached for Jesus.
So let me ask you this question. Where do you see online church going then for Canada and then around the world?
A. It’s interesting that our biggest followings at this point has been Third World countries, and them catching the idea quicker. So in Canada it is ---
People are following us. We don’t have any official gatherings. We have some family gatherings. And the challenge is it just doesn’t fit our historical view of what attending church is. And if you could boil it down and find the ingredients I think you might find remembrance of the past. It was very memorable to my life coming to faith. And number two, it is very sociological. I love going and seeing fifty to a hundred of my friends in a location. I don’t know if ---
It’s reality. And if you are building an institutional or a four-walls church you’ve got to pay attention to sociological things. But those are limiters many times to us actually growing it ourselves. So in Canada I think and North America our model was successful. I’m not even saying it’s not successful now. But the success hinders us moving forward.
Q. Yes, it’s not ---
A. People are like well it worked forty years ago, it should still work.
Q. It’s not a flexible model today. And I think there’s a ---
I mean this kind of leads into our next question as it relates to how do we keep church multiplication a priority. I’ll get your take on that in a second. But you are right. We have to think about what percentage of Canada is going to go to the existing church. There’s lots of stats that we could argue either way. But the largest majority of Canada would probably not at this point go to our existing church models, whatever they are.
What I like about what you’re doing Harvey is you are trying something new. And to your own admission you’re like I don’t know if it is going to work. Honestly, I’ve said this before. I think we need church planters and pioneers and entrepreneurs on the edges doing research and development for future church, for future influence, for reaching people in Canada. And I think online is going to be a way that we can do it. It’s scalable. It’s reproducible. It’s simple.
Not the production side of it. That part I can get. It can be quite ---
People who understand it more can do better at it. I get it. But once that’s done people could download it two million times.
A. Yes.
Q. So I don’t know if I could do two million services or have two million messages, you know what I mean? So I think there’s some real exponential growth here. But just selling the idea of okay, so what could it look like. What are our arguments against it? Any thoughts about that?
A. Okay. So my mind is swirling. Where we met we were around some people who were sixty-plus. Some of those people have stories from their early days of house gatherings where they experienced the Holy Spirit and fire. They were filled with the Holy Spirit and it was wonderful and they grew. So when you talk to people of that era who have had those experiences about the value of those gatherings, they go like oh yeah, that was pivotal to my life.
Q. Right.
A. It didn’t have to be in a big gathering with hundreds or thousands. So that’s just a perspective. So you don’t have to have it in big places with incredible speakers and anointed prophets and whatever. It’s empowering the people to live in it.
And then the other thing that needs to be reminded here is if the gathering on a weekend is all about the power of a message then I can get that on podcasts with the greatest communicators every week.
Q. We can now.
A. Instead of going somewhere.
Q. We can now.
A. It’s got to be a gathering together in the power of the Holy Spirit, hearing the word, loving together, caring for each other and just doing life simply in the presence of the Holy Spirit and togetherness and then we can get a good message and learn from it too. So I think the church, what I’m doing, I see churches all around the world doing this and doing it better than us once they get a perspective and saying okay, we’re going to add something.
This is often what we tell when I’ve coached churches to do something innovative. Don’t stop what you are doing. Keep it going but ask a few people if they are willing to try something new more to the edge and try it while we’re doing this. This is different than streaming your services. This is different than gathering in the building. This is about creating these communities all around the world, you know, starting in your community but all around the world and discipling them. It’s going to add, you know ---
I think many churches will be doing this. This way we’re caught up in some of the things we think has to make up what a church is.
Q. We’re going to have to let some things go, I think. We’re going to have to let some things go. If we are serious about reaching Canada we’ve got to be able to do –
You know, the things we’re doing better and then do new things that would be effective for reaching Canadians.
So let me just, last question here, then we’ll get to some rapid fire questions. How do we keep church multiplication a front burner item as the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada? You’ve been with them many, many years. You’ve worked in some. You planted two churches. Why don’t you just help us and something I ask many of the guests here. Speak to our group. Speak to our tribe and maybe offer some thoughts on what we can do moving forward.
A. I think we have ---
I’m going to answer this a little broader than you expected. I think we are an organization that is mostly led by pastors who have that shepherding, caring, loving perspective, and we model that so well. So people in our group, in our churches, who feel called to the ministry go to school to learn so they can become better pastors. But there is an element the Bible calls apostles. We’ve talked about missionaries, the innovators, people willing to venture out. Where are those people who we can champion who can make mistakes significantly and that we champion and walk alongside. I love some of the new stuff that is happening where you give people a manual and they do it a certain way and who don’t know what we’re talking about.
Q. Um-hmm.
A. That’s a nice franchise model. I’m talking about the people who are going to try things that no one is doing and they are the apostles amongst us, or innovators, or entrepreneurs, whatever you want to call it that you’re happy with. They are going to do things differently. They are going to reach many, many, many people in different ways and spark other new innovations that are biblical, but they are going to reach people. So hey, granted you like the manual. Okay, you will appeal to people who like franchises. But the people who are going to start the “Apples” of the day and start the “Microsofts” of the day and start the “Twitters” of the day and all the “Googles” of the day, they didn’t come out of McDonald’s and learn from the little manual. They were innovators. So we’ve got to find those people, identify and champion those people.
I find people are willing to, by experience now please, are willing to put money into what we call proven and tried. I’m praying for great resources to come in because I want to look for those people who are the people going oh, that’s not going to work. Before Apple exploded Dell said to Steve Jobs, why don’t you just give everybody their money back and do the world a favour and close the doors. I think we’ve got to champion that because it’s the biblical piece that is what is going to advance us forward. But it’s going to take a mentality and mind set and if we can release resources and champion these ones, I think this is brilliant.
The churches that we’ve launched, praise God, like in North America here, too hands on generally and now this online piece has been basically done alone. There’s been a few who have done little things but somebody suggests it but then I have to go and do it. I’m not that great. But I have to have a skill set a little different. I don’t fit the best grid of the classic successful pastor.
So I think we’ve got to find those people and champion them and see something rise in them and see the whole fivefold gift, that entrepreneur identified.
Q. Yes. That is really good. That is something that I think younger leaders out there are excited to hear you say and others say, that there is some flexibility in model, there is flexibility ---
It’s part of the reason why our General Executive and our General Superintendent said that we want to make disciple-making communities, not just churches. Churches are a disciple-making community but there’s going to be all these other expressions that didn’t fit in our four categories of what a church is. And those are those entrepreneurs on the edge going okay, well, why don’t we try this. I think culture is heading this way. And I think we as a group need to spend some time with the Lord and ask God what’s next. What do we need to do? What do we need to do better? What do we need to let go of so we can see a nation reached for Him. Yes, I agree. I think we need more creativity, more experimentation, which means we need business guys and those with resources to get behind leaders who are willing to experiment.
A. Absolutely. I’m right with you.
Q. Okay. Well, here comes the rapid fire questions. Get ready. Your favourite sport?
A. I do terrible at these things by the way.
Q. Well, you are already off to a bad start! (Laughter)
A. Hockey! Hockey!
Q. Your favourite hockey team?
A. I live in Vancouver. I’m a home town guy. So the Vancouver Canucks.
Q. Are you? What are your hopes of them making the play-offs?
A. (Laughter) I have high hopes!
Q. --- Paul sings the song…We have high hopes… Favourite book you read in the last I’ll say six months?
A. You know, I’m just rereading it again – I love it – Mark Batterson and it’s about Circle Maker.
Q. Oh, The Circle Maker. Yes. Great.
A. Great book. I’m doing a series, picked it back up and read it.
Q. If you could vacation anywhere in the world where would you go?
A. Wherever I haven’t been. With my family?
Q. Yes.
A. Probably ---
I haven’t done a lot of Europe so maybe the coast of France.
Q. Oh, that would be cool.
If you are in a nice hot day and you are in downtown Vancouver looking for a beverage, what beverage are you getting?
A. It’s coffee. It’s a coffee location.
Q. It doesn’t matter.
A. You can get coffee in all sorts of places so finding a good coffee: Americano.
Q. Even on a hot day?
A. Hot day? No, I would go for the mocha frappe.
Q. Yes. Not a slurpee?
A. No, no, not that sugar man. Terrible.
Q. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Any podcasts you are listening to that would be helpful?
A. I listen to a ton.
Q. Give us your top three.
A. I would have to look at them.
Q. Okay, give us your top one.
A. But you know what? It’s just where I’m at at this point in my life. I just have always loved Furtick. He’s always inspiring. I’m listening to some faith guys right now.
Q. Ok.
A. Yes, I have. So I’m listening to Jerry Savelle. Crazy. And another guy named Womack. But these guys pump me up, just kind of reminding me of where they have taken faith and challenge. I’m looking for it to inspire me.
Q. Yes.
A. I just recently was on a motorcycle trip. I didn’t do that many miles but probably six hours a day on the bike. Again, all I listened to were audio messages the whole time.
Q. Okay. And the guy with me, the business guy, goes how do you do that?
A. I go man, just leave us alone. I need space.
Q. Yes.
A. I’m just getting pumped up. I listened to one guy three times it just so fired me up. I forget who the speaker was ---
It was John Bevere and he was talking about something and I was going oh man, that just inspires me.
Q. John Bevere?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Are you a Toronto Raptors fan?
A. I am a Canadian. I’m a homer. So Raptors fan, however, I’m kind of a west coast guy so I was kind of pulling for Golden State, to be honest.
Q. Oh, were you?
A. Yes.
Q. That’s not going to win a lot of viewership here. So do you think Kawhi Leonard is going to sign because at the time we’re recording this podcast we still don’t know. Is Kawhi, prophet Harvey Trauter, what do you think is going to happen. Will he sign?
A. I think he’s going to.
Q. You think he’s going to?
A. I think he’s going to.
Q. Okay.
A. That’s our only hope.
Q. I know. I’m totally with you. Hey, thanks so much for jumping on the podcast today. I really appreciate it.
A. Hey, that was great being on here. You know what, I forgot to mention, this is my favourite podcast.
Q. Okay. So I’ll edit this and put it back in the podcast section. (Laughter)
A. Go ahead quickly. Go, go, go. (Laughter) Anyways it was great.
Q. What podcast is it?
A. The one we’re doing right now!
Q. Oh, the one we’re doing right now is your favourite?
A. Yes. My favourite one: Multiply Network! That’s my favourite.
Q. You have just forgotten about us.
A. That last speaker ---
Q. Laughter. Oh man, it’s great. I love chatting with you, love dreaming about the future with you and keep going. Keep doing what you’re doing and be sure to take good notes so we can all follow.
A. One thing that is amazing in the journey when you’re out like this you feel at times very desperate to stay alive and then there’s something about that --- it is exhausting ---There’s something about that that makes you fully alive because you’re going like God, I can’t be idle because this is crazy. And then there’s something that when it’s done you go like, well, that sure wasn’t me.
Q. Yes.
A. So it’s exciting. I think one question you were asking earlier we hit a number of 2,960 people engaging a few weeks ago.
Q. Wow.
A. It’s not always like that but we’re excited.
Q. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And if you want more information, where is it on the website?
A. axis.church.
Q. All right. Thanks for jumping on today.
A. Thanks, Paul. Blessings. Appreciate you.
--- End of Recording.