{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":4.86,"endTime":6.929,"body":"Well, here we are on objection"},{"startTime":6.93,"endTime":8.939,"body":"number three in"},{"startTime":8.94,"endTime":11.099,"body":"our series of eight most common"},{"startTime":11.1,"endTime":14.129,"body":"objections to church multiplication."},{"startTime":14.13,"endTime":15.869,"body":"And we're really excited to have my"},{"startTime":15.87,"endTime":17.729,"body":"co-host again, Michael"},{"startTime":17.73,"endTime":19.019,"body":"Bronson is joining."},{"startTime":19.02,"endTime":20.849,"body":"Michael, how are you today?"},{"startTime":20.85,"endTime":22.679,"body":"Hey, Paul. Good to see/"},{"startTime":22.68,"endTime":23.969,"body":"hear you. It's always fun hanging"},{"startTime":23.97,"endTime":24.97,"body":"out."},{"startTime":25.62,"endTime":27.599,"body":"It's good to see you too."},{"startTime":27.6,"endTime":28.89,"body":"I was thinking about,"},{"startTime":30.0,"endTime":32.309,"body":"some things about my childhood"},{"startTime":32.31,"endTime":33.779,"body":"recently, and one of the things I"},{"startTime":33.78,"endTime":35.639,"body":"was thinking about, was this"},{"startTime":35.64,"endTime":37.709,"body":"what I wanted to do when I grew"},{"startTime":37.71,"endTime":38.71,"body":"up? And,"},{"startTime":39.93,"endTime":41.219,"body":"I don't know, what did you want to"},{"startTime":41.22,"endTime":42.119,"body":"do when you grew up?"},{"startTime":42.12,"endTime":43.049,"body":"Do you remember that?"},{"startTime":43.05,"endTime":44.309,"body":"Like, as a little kid?"},{"startTime":44.31,"endTime":46.289,"body":"Oh, wow. Yeah, when I was a little"},{"startTime":46.29,"endTime":47.639,"body":"kid. 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That's --  it's -- That's a"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":181.86,"endTime":183.039,"body":"common objection right?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":183.04,"endTime":184.04,"body":"To multiplication."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":184.47,"endTime":186.359,"body":"Why should we be starting new"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":186.36,"endTime":188.369,"body":"churches when there's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":188.37,"endTime":190.409,"body":"churches that aren't growing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":190.41,"endTime":192.449,"body":"and they're maybe plateaued"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":192.45,"endTime":194.309,"body":"or possibly even shrinking."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":194.31,"endTime":196.289,"body":"So obviously we should"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":196.29,"endTime":197.879,"body":"be putting our effort into that."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":197.88,"endTime":199.199,"body":"And I think, I think probably every"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":199.2,"endTime":201.299,"body":"single one of us knows"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":201.3,"endTime":203.069,"body":"some leaders that are leading really"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":203.07,"endTime":204.119,"body":"healthy churches that are really"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":204.12,"endTime":205.829,"body":"growing. And we probably all know"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":205.83,"endTime":208.169,"body":"leaders that are in churches that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":208.17,"endTime":209.609,"body":"are the complete opposite of that."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":209.61,"endTime":211.459,"body":"So at first glance,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":211.46,"endTime":212.549,"body":"it makes sense."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":212.55,"endTime":214.559,"body":"And can I tell you an analogy"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":214.56,"endTime":215.369,"body":"that I thought of Paul?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":215.37,"endTime":216.299,"body":"I think this --."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":216.3,"endTime":216.313,"body":"Yeah, go ahead."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":216.314,"endTime":217.482,"body":"I think this works well with this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":217.483,"endTime":219.539,"body":"Because, I"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":219.54,"endTime":220.889,"body":"understand where people are coming"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":220.89,"endTime":222.929,"body":"from. And, you know, here on"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":222.93,"endTime":224.039,"body":"this podcast, we want to make sure"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":224.04,"endTime":225.809,"body":"we're still manning some arguments."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":225.81,"endTime":227.579,"body":"We're not just giving the fluff and,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":227.58,"endTime":228.659,"body":"you know, trying to dismantle the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":228.66,"endTime":229.719,"body":"fluff. No, no, no. Like this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":229.72,"endTime":231.029,"body":"It's a legit argument."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":231.03,"endTime":233.099,"body":"And it's almost like, imagine"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":233.1,"endTime":235.109,"body":"having a farmer who who"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":235.11,"endTime":236.999,"body":"has a field and the farmer's trying"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":237.0,"endTime":238.229,"body":"to bring in a harvest from that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":238.23,"endTime":239.79,"body":"field. Imagine,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":240.84,"endTime":242.609,"body":"this farmer is not bringing a"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":242.61,"endTime":244.379,"body":"return. Like, the field is just not"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":244.38,"endTime":246.449,"body":"working. There's no harvest."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":246.45,"endTime":248.129,"body":"Why on earth would that farmer then"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":248.13,"endTime":250.799,"body":"go and buy another second field"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":250.8,"endTime":252.269,"body":"and try doing it again when the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":252.27,"endTime":253.379,"body":"first one isn't working at all?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":253.38,"endTime":255.209,"body":"And I feel like that's kind"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":255.21,"endTime":256.919,"body":"of the perspective that a lot of us"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":256.92,"endTime":258.419,"body":"have when we think about this"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":258.42,"endTime":260.398,"body":"argument. And it's true,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":260.399,"endTime":261.659,"body":"if you think of it from that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":261.66,"endTime":262.559,"body":"viewpoint."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":262.56,"endTime":264.719,"body":"But much like the previous podcast,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":264.72,"endTime":266.639,"body":"we're going to take a step back."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":266.64,"endTime":268.019,"body":"And what we want to do is we want to"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":268.02,"endTime":269.399,"body":"look at that objection from a"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":269.4,"endTime":270.749,"body":"different angle and a different"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":270.75,"endTime":271.979,"body":"viewpoint. Because it doesn't have"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":271.98,"endTime":273.809,"body":"to be from that perspective."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":273.81,"endTime":275.309,"body":"So I'm excited to talk about that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":275.31,"endTime":276.389,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":276.39,"endTime":278.429,"body":"This is perfect"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":278.43,"endTime":281.069,"body":"because we have got a guest"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":281.07,"endTime":282.599,"body":"that's going to help us think this"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":282.6,"endTime":284.429,"body":"through. His name is Jeremiah"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":284.43,"endTime":285.43,"body":"Raible."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":285.6,"endTime":287.369,"body":"He's the Vitalization Coach or one"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":287.37,"endTime":288.989,"body":"of the visualization coaches in the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":288.99,"endTime":290.399,"body":"Alberta Northwest Territories"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":290.4,"endTime":292.649,"body":"District of the Pentecostal"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":292.65,"endTime":294.539,"body":"Assemblies of Canada."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":294.54,"endTime":297.599,"body":"He is a future thinker."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":297.6,"endTime":300.309,"body":"He's great at all things tech."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":300.31,"endTime":302.289,"body":"He was a polka band drummer once"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":302.29,"endTime":304.479,"body":"and he's super fun to be around."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":304.48,"endTime":305.949,"body":"Jeremiah Raible, welcome to the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":305.95,"endTime":307.299,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":307.3,"endTime":308.799,"body":"Hey, thanks so much for having me,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":308.8,"endTime":309.939,"body":"Paul."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":309.94,"endTime":311.439,"body":"That was one of the best stories"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":311.44,"endTime":312.879,"body":"ever. That polka bad story."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":312.88,"endTime":314.109,"body":"Perhaps another time."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":314.11,"endTime":316.119,"body":"But, when when"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":316.12,"endTime":318.699,"body":"we think about this, objection"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":318.7,"endTime":321.519,"body":"to church multiplication, obviously,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":321.52,"endTime":324.219,"body":"you're involved with visualization,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":324.22,"endTime":326.35,"body":"working with all kinds of churches."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":327.4,"endTime":329.199,"body":"When I say we should be investing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":329.2,"endTime":330.969,"body":"into revitalizing churches instead"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":330.97,"endTime":332.349,"body":"of planting new ones, this is your"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":332.35,"endTime":333.129,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":333.13,"endTime":335.559,"body":"Why does this carry some merit?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":335.56,"endTime":336.699,"body":"Well, I think about the same"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":336.7,"endTime":338.649,"body":"objection I heard when I worked in"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":338.65,"endTime":339.819,"body":"international missions."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":339.82,"endTime":342.669,"body":"Why are we sending people overseas"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":342.67,"endTime":344.439,"body":"when we need to send people here?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":344.44,"endTime":346.419,"body":"And it's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":346.42,"endTime":348.429,"body":"this either/or mentality."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":348.43,"endTime":350.109,"body":"I don't -- I'm not quite, I don't"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":350.11,"endTime":351.699,"body":"quite understand where that comes"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":351.7,"endTime":352.479,"body":"from."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":352.48,"endTime":354.429,"body":"And I think the reason why it has"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":354.43,"endTime":356.062,"body":"legs, though, is because there--"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":356.063,"endTime":358.509,"body":"Seven out of ten existing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":358.51,"endTime":360.069,"body":"churches are in decline, in"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":360.07,"endTime":361.07,"body":"plateau."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":361.69,"endTime":363.879,"body":"You know, in 2019,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":363.88,"endTime":365.799,"body":"the CBC reported that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":365.8,"endTime":367.839,"body":"10,000 churches will close"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":367.84,"endTime":369.399,"body":"in ten years."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":369.4,"endTime":370.759,"body":"And that was before Covid."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":370.76,"endTime":373.179,"body":"I think that's expedited."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":373.18,"endTime":375.039,"body":"So there is you know, churches are"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":375.04,"endTime":376.04,"body":"closing. They're"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":377.08,"endTime":378.459,"body":"losing their land."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":378.46,"endTime":379.839,"body":"I mean, this is land you'll never"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":379.84,"endTime":381.819,"body":"get back,  zoning you'll never"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":381.82,"endTime":383.919,"body":"get back. 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It's embedded -- like"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":456.28,"endTime":458.109,"body":"the kingdom of God, multiplication,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":458.11,"endTime":460.599,"body":"is embedded into"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":460.6,"endTime":463.449,"body":"the church that Jesus is building."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":463.45,"endTime":465.849,"body":"But if it's not healthy -- You"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":465.85,"endTime":467.679,"body":"know, you reproduce often what you"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":467.68,"endTime":469.689,"body":"are. And so it makes"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":469.69,"endTime":471.339,"body":"sense to just say, hey, stop"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":471.34,"endTime":473.499,"body":"planting, stop"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":473.5,"endTime":475.779,"body":"planting, because we've got gotta,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":475.78,"endTime":477.189,"body":"you know, we've got to make sure"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":477.19,"endTime":478.539,"body":"that our churches are vitalized."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":479.59,"endTime":481.599,"body":"And there's a lot of truth"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":481.6,"endTime":482.739,"body":"in that. But it's a both/and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":482.74,"endTime":484.029,"body":"conversation. 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Well, Jeremiah, what was that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":526.636,"endTime":527.519,"body":"stat you just said?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":527.52,"endTime":529.88,"body":"It was seven out of ten churches?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":529.881,"endTime":531.779,"body":"Seven out of ten churches are"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":531.78,"endTime":532.829,"body":"plateaued or declining."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":532.83,"endTime":533.819,"body":"Yeah. Wow."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":533.82,"endTime":535.769,"body":"And is that is that all Canadian"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":535.77,"endTime":536.794,"body":"churches or with PAOC specifically?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":538.32,"endTime":540.239,"body":"Yeah, I mean 80% -- The general"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":540.24,"endTime":542.489,"body":"stat is  80% of Canadian churches"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":542.49,"endTime":543.929,"body":"are in plateau and decline."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":545.37,"endTime":546.509,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":546.51,"endTime":548.399,"body":"That's, that's-- Okay, so we"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":548.4,"endTime":550.049,"body":"got to do something about this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":550.05,"endTime":551.05,"body":"Okay. There you go."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":552.153,"endTime":553.153,"body":"How could anyone say that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":552.153,"endTime":553.153,"body":"vitalization -- Like,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":553.35,"endTime":555.179,"body":"it like revitalization-- Like,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":555.18,"endTime":557.699,"body":"we need it if we're sitting at"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":557.7,"endTime":558.479,"body":"30%."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":558.48,"endTime":560.339,"body":"And I think this was an"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":560.34,"endTime":561.34,"body":"Ed Stetzer stat,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":562.32,"endTime":565.289,"body":"it was something like 85%"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":565.29,"endTime":566.29,"body":"of churches aren't -- No, 80%"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":571.44,"endTime":573.066,"body":"of churches, like you said, of that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":573.067,"endTime":574.067,"body":"plateaued"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":575.61,"endTime":576.61,"body":"or declining, 15% are"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":579.1,"endTime":580.419,"body":"growing by--"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":581.74,"endTime":582.921,"body":"Transfer. You're looking for the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":582.922,"endTime":583.491,"body":"word transfer--"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":583.492,"endTime":584.769,"body":"Transfer growth, thank you."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":584.77,"endTime":586.799,"body":"And then there's only 3"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":586.8,"endTime":589.119,"body":"to 5% that are growing through"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":589.12,"endTime":590.679,"body":"new conversions."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":590.68,"endTime":591.939,"body":"Can we talk about that for a second"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":591.94,"endTime":592.94,"body":"too? Yeah. 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All right."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":622.03,"endTime":622.869,"body":"I'll set that up."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":622.87,"endTime":623.649,"body":"And we've all had those"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":623.65,"endTime":624.429,"body":"conversations."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":624.43,"endTime":626.019,"body":"And trust me, those are beautiful"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":626.02,"endTime":627.849,"body":"conversations, those"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":627.85,"endTime":629.439,"body":"are great days for our budgets and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":629.44,"endTime":630.309,"body":"this sort of thing."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":630.31,"endTime":632.379,"body":"But we probably have all"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":632.38,"endTime":633.789,"body":"been in that scenario, too, where"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":633.79,"endTime":635.739,"body":"there's this new Christian that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":635.74,"endTime":637.479,"body":"says, you know, for the first time"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":637.48,"endTime":639.429,"body":"of, oh, I'm supposed to give"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":639.43,"endTime":642.189,"body":"to this? 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But I think you said it"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":679.15,"endTime":680.089,"body":"before, Paul."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":680.09,"endTime":681.489,"body":"You were challenged me on this, and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":681.49,"endTime":682.299,"body":"a group of planters."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":682.3,"endTime":684.429,"body":"It's we cannot be just"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":684.43,"endTime":685.389,"body":"aiming for transfers."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":685.39,"endTime":686.799,"body":"It must be new conversion."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":686.8,"endTime":688.779,"body":"Like this, this is what God wants"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":688.78,"endTime":689.619,"body":"right? 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Gears working together."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":851.44,"endTime":852.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":853.6,"endTime":855.429,"body":"Both sides working together."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":855.43,"endTime":857.439,"body":"And the focus"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":857.44,"endTime":858.609,"body":"is always missional."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":858.61,"endTime":860.799,"body":"We use the term re-envisioning."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":860.8,"endTime":861.799,"body":"We use the term replanting."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":861.8,"endTime":862.8,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":863.71,"endTime":865.839,"body":"know, so it's a lot of the same."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":865.84,"endTime":867.669,"body":"It's the, you know, a church planter"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":867.67,"endTime":868.67,"body":"could be a replanter or a"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":867.67,"endTime":868.67,"body":"revitalizer. A person"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":871.36,"endTime":872.859,"body":"who's revitalized the church could"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":872.86,"endTime":873.969,"body":"plant."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":873.97,"endTime":875.829,"body":"The characteristics of those"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":875.83,"endTime":877.509,"body":"leaders are catalytic."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":877.51,"endTime":878.769,"body":"They're the same, kind of you have"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":878.77,"endTime":880.647,"body":"to be a catalytic, vision caster,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":880.648,"endTime":882.669,"body":"managing change,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":882.67,"endTime":884.019,"body":"all of those things,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":885.22,"endTime":886.149,"body":"that have to happen."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":886.15,"endTime":888.219,"body":"So it's very similar."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":888.22,"endTime":890.229,"body":"Yeah. Michael, we've talked about"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":890.23,"endTime":892.119,"body":"this before of, you know, thinking"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":892.12,"endTime":894.069,"body":"like a church planter is"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":894.07,"endTime":895.905,"body":"actually a great way"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":895.906,"endTime":896.906,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":898.07,"endTime":899.629,"body":"think about visualization, because"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":899.63,"endTime":900.799,"body":"the things you need to think about"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":900.8,"endTime":902.779,"body":"in vitalization are the same"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":902.78,"endTime":903.78,"body":"things you need to think about as"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":905.6,"endTime":906.469,"body":"a church planter."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":906.47,"endTime":907.789,"body":"I mean, you've done that."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":907.79,"endTime":909.139,"body":"You've done the church planting"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":909.14,"endTime":910.25,"body":"thing. Any thoughts on that?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":911.36,"endTime":912.829,"body":"Yeah. And that's the thing, right?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":912.83,"endTime":914.719,"body":"Like, in some cases, one"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":914.72,"endTime":916.639,"body":"of the best ways to revitalize"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":916.64,"endTime":918.619,"body":"a church is, is"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":918.62,"endTime":920.479,"body":"to really sometimes what we"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":920.48,"endTime":921.439,"body":"actually need to do is just say, you"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":921.44,"endTime":922.519,"body":"know, we're going to actually push"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":922.52,"endTime":924.529,"body":"pause on this church for about six"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":924.53,"endTime":925.339,"body":"months."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":925.34,"endTime":927.049,"body":"You know, the core who's a part of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":927.05,"endTime":928.729,"body":"it, stay a part of it."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":928.73,"endTime":930.379,"body":"Let's revision. Let's reimagine."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":930.38,"endTime":931.459,"body":"And it's like what you said,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":931.46,"endTime":934.039,"body":"Jeremiah, let's replant this"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":934.04,"endTime":935.719,"body":"and treat it like a church plant."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":935.72,"endTime":937.039,"body":"You know, I can think of a couple"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":937.04,"endTime":939.169,"body":"examples where that's just what"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":939.17,"endTime":940.519,"body":"happened to a church."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":940.52,"endTime":942.229,"body":"And, you know, it was kind of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":942.23,"endTime":943.339,"body":"spinning some wheels."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":943.34,"endTime":945.169,"body":"It just wasn't gaining traction."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":945.17,"endTime":946.039,"body":"Let's try this idea."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":946.04,"endTime":947.359,"body":"Let's try this idea."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":947.36,"endTime":949.249,"body":"And what they needed to do,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":949.25,"endTime":950.299,"body":"though, at the end of the day was,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":950.3,"endTime":951.349,"body":"you know, let's just shut this down"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":951.35,"endTime":953.269,"body":"for a little bit and relaunch"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":953.27,"endTime":954.679,"body":"this. And I'm thinking of these"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":954.68,"endTime":956.029,"body":"examples and it's just, they're"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":956.03,"endTime":957.439,"body":"absolutely booming now."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":957.44,"endTime":958.789,"body":"New disciples being made, people"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":958.79,"endTime":959.989,"body":"being baptized."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":959.99,"endTime":961.819,"body":"And it's it's something that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":961.82,"endTime":963.619,"body":"we -- Well, it's it's like what we"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":963.62,"endTime":965.929,"body":"said, right. It's not do we do this"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":965.93,"endTime":966.739,"body":"or do we do this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":966.74,"endTime":967.999,"body":"It's no, no, no. Let's do both of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":968.0,"endTime":969.919,"body":"these. And sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":969.92,"endTime":971.599,"body":"merging them together and doing them"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":971.6,"endTime":972.979,"body":"at the same time. Right."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":972.98,"endTime":975.109,"body":"A church will plateau"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":975.11,"endTime":977.149,"body":"when -- like, no church grows"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":977.15,"endTime":978.019,"body":"like this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":978.02,"endTime":979.399,"body":"A church always plateaus."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":979.4,"endTime":981.049,"body":"And when it plateaus, what happens"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":981.05,"endTime":983.179,"body":"is the the activities"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":983.18,"endTime":985.339,"body":"that got them to that growth, they"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":985.34,"endTime":986.869,"body":"begin to double down on those"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":986.87,"endTime":989.119,"body":"activities, and then"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":989.12,"endTime":991.039,"body":"it begins to crust over and becomes"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":991.04,"endTime":993.469,"body":"the barrier for future growth."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":993.47,"endTime":994.489,"body":"It doesn't matter if you're three"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":994.49,"endTime":996.439,"body":"years old or 20 or 100 years"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":996.44,"endTime":998.329,"body":"old. It's the same process."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":998.33,"endTime":1000.249,"body":"When you plateau, you"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1000.25,"endTime":1002.019,"body":"actually, you keep reinforcing the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1002.02,"endTime":1003.879,"body":"things you did and it"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1003.88,"endTime":1004.929,"body":"keeps you in plateau."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1004.93,"endTime":1006.429,"body":"Rather than re-imagining,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1006.43,"endTime":1009.159,"body":"re-envisioning and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1009.16,"endTime":1011.139,"body":"emerging to a new level of growth."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1011.14,"endTime":1013.089,"body":"And that's what happens in every"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1013.09,"endTime":1014.289,"body":"church."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1014.29,"endTime":1015.129,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1015.13,"endTime":1016.788,"body":"One of the things, Jeremiah, that -"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1016.789,"endTime":1018.639,"body":"and this has happened to a couple"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1018.64,"endTime":1019.899,"body":"different places I can think of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1019.9,"endTime":1022.179,"body":"Western Ontario district,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1022.18,"endTime":1023.18,"body":"in our movement - 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maybe"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1104.05,"endTime":1105.339,"body":"there's a more pastoral gifting"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1105.34,"endTime":1107.349,"body":"versus an apostolic one, and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1107.35,"endTime":1109.509,"body":"they just seem to fit better."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1109.51,"endTime":1111.429,"body":"And so if we say you're either this"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1111.43,"endTime":1112.509,"body":"or that, then what do we do with"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1112.51,"endTime":1113.619,"body":"these leaders?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1113.62,"endTime":1114.999,"body":"They end up being on the outside"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1115.0,"endTime":1116.41,"body":"looking in. Michael your thoughts?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1117.79,"endTime":1119.319,"body":"Yeah, I think it's important,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1119.32,"endTime":1120.759,"body":"especially with this conversation,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1120.76,"endTime":1122.679,"body":"to acknowledge God has"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1122.68,"endTime":1124.599,"body":"wired us all differently."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1124.6,"endTime":1126.219,"body":"We're all unique people."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1126.22,"endTime":1127.269,"body":"Yeah. Like we said, different,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1127.27,"endTime":1128.859,"body":"different giftings, different"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1128.86,"endTime":1130.509,"body":"perspectives on things."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1130.51,"endTime":1132.399,"body":"And it's really sad when someone's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1132.4,"endTime":1133.4,"body":"wired a certain way, and the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1135.58,"endTime":1136.959,"body":"church as a whole says, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1136.96,"endTime":1137.889,"body":"don't be like that."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1137.89,"endTime":1139.509,"body":"Be like this instead."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1139.51,"endTime":1141.399,"body":"And, you know, some people"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1141.4,"endTime":1143.229,"body":"are just built, you know, they were"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1143.23,"endTime":1145.239,"body":"just wired to be these"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1145.24,"endTime":1147.189,"body":"fresh, blank page starters"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1147.19,"endTime":1148.376,"body":"of - There's nothing there."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1148.377,"endTime":1150.219,"body":"I see what God"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1150.22,"endTime":1151.119,"body":"could make this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1151.12,"endTime":1152.829,"body":"And boom, you make that happen."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1152.83,"endTime":1154.599,"body":"Some people are wired to say, I see"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1154.6,"endTime":1156.789,"body":"something right now that maybe isn't"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1156.79,"endTime":1158.619,"body":"fully what God wants it to be, but"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1158.62,"endTime":1159.789,"body":"oh, I see the beauty and the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1159.79,"endTime":1160.989,"body":"potential in this."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1160.99,"endTime":1162.939,"body":"And neither are wrong"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1162.94,"endTime":1165.039,"body":"to be that. It's, let's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1165.04,"endTime":1167.019,"body":"discern who God has called us to be."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1167.02,"endTime":1167.907,"body":"And let's just -- Now, listen,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1167.908,"endTime":1169.779,"body":"sometimes we need to watch ourselves"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1169.78,"endTime":1170.829,"body":"because sometimes it can be out of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1170.83,"endTime":1172.809,"body":"arrogance, of some people want"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1172.81,"endTime":1174.639,"body":"to be, well, I want the story on the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1174.64,"endTime":1176.919,"body":"website to be, oh yes, it was 2000"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1176.92,"endTime":1179.139,"body":"and whatever when my name started"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1179.14,"endTime":1180.14,"body":"this church plant and blah, blah."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1179.14,"endTime":1180.14,"body":"Versus,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1181.09,"endTime":1183.009,"body":"you know, 50 years ago"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1183.01,"endTime":1184.569,"body":"this person did and this person came"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1184.57,"endTime":1185.439,"body":"revitalized it."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1185.44,"endTime":1187.389,"body":"You know, sometimes it doesn't look"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1187.39,"endTime":1188.949,"body":"as flashy. So I think we need to be"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1188.95,"endTime":1190.989,"body":"careful of that and be self"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1190.99,"endTime":1192.069,"body":"aware."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1192.07,"endTime":1193.989,"body":"But we need to we need to"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1193.99,"endTime":1195.039,"body":"let people be who they are."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1195.04,"endTime":1196.719,"body":"And Paul, I remember you telling me"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1196.72,"endTime":1198.399,"body":"a story years ago."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1198.4,"endTime":1199.659,"body":"I forget we are on a call of some"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1199.66,"endTime":1201.309,"body":"sort. And you were telling, I can't"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1201.31,"endTime":1203.229,"body":"remember the the pastor's name, but"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1203.23,"endTime":1205.359,"body":"there was this pastor in"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1205.36,"endTime":1207.14,"body":"Ontario that was going along"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1208.39,"endTime":1210.279,"body":"the coast of the Hudson's Bay to"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1210.28,"endTime":1211.509,"body":"these little, you know, fishing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1211.51,"endTime":1213.219,"body":"villages or, or this sort of thing."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1213.22,"endTime":1215.109,"body":"And he saw that these little"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1215.11,"endTime":1216.699,"body":"villages didn't have a church, so he"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1216.7,"endTime":1217.689,"body":"would stay there for a couple of"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1217.69,"endTime":1219.519,"body":"months or something along those"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1219.52,"endTime":1221.349,"body":"lines, start this new church, set"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1221.35,"endTime":1223.179,"body":"up a pastor, and then go on to"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1223.18,"endTime":1224.469,"body":"the next village. And he would just"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1224.47,"endTime":1226.599,"body":"go throughout the Hudson's Bay."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1226.6,"endTime":1228.129,"body":"And it's just this beautiful picture"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1228.13,"endTime":1229.839,"body":"of pioneering and adventure of just,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1229.84,"endTime":1230.799,"body":"you know, there's just nothing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1230.8,"endTime":1231.909,"body":"there. It's a blank page."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1231.91,"endTime":1234.249,"body":"And they're going, can you imagine"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1234.25,"endTime":1236.079,"body":"going to this planter and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1236.08,"endTime":1237.399,"body":"saying, hey, this is great that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1237.4,"endTime":1238.929,"body":"you're doing this, but there's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1238.93,"endTime":1241.389,"body":"churches down south below"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1241.39,"endTime":1243.189,"body":"that aren't as healthy as they need"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1243.19,"endTime":1244.629,"body":"to be. So you have to stop doing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1244.63,"endTime":1246.099,"body":"what you're doing and come here."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1246.1,"endTime":1247.719,"body":"Like, that would just - it would be"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1247.72,"endTime":1249.339,"body":"totally the opposite of what we"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1249.34,"endTime":1250.569,"body":"should be saying. We need to be"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1250.57,"endTime":1252.129,"body":"taking this person who's walking in"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1252.13,"endTime":1253.239,"body":"their calling, walking in their"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1253.24,"endTime":1255.219,"body":"gifting and say, run with"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1255.22,"endTime":1257.049,"body":"this. So does"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1257.05,"endTime":1258.789,"body":"that mean, though, that the churches"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1258.79,"endTime":1260.619,"body":"down in the Toronto area at that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1260.62,"endTime":1261.909,"body":"time who maybe weren't the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1261.91,"endTime":1263.349,"body":"healthiest, does that mean they"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1263.35,"endTime":1264.879,"body":"shouldn't revitalize, though, and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1264.88,"endTime":1266.469,"body":"get healthy? Absolutely not."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1266.47,"endTime":1268.479,"body":"Both of these are so,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1268.48,"endTime":1270.309,"body":"so important to do at the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1270.31,"endTime":1272.349,"body":"same time. At the same time, right?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1272.35,"endTime":1274.359,"body":"Yeah. We've seen pastors"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1274.36,"endTime":1276.249,"body":"who who had led their church"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1276.25,"endTime":1278.169,"body":"down, you know, who had into"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1278.17,"endTime":1280.149,"body":"plateau, who have actually turned"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1280.15,"endTime":1281.319,"body":"the church around."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1281.32,"endTime":1282.639,"body":"And that's an interesting thing,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1282.64,"endTime":1284.469,"body":"where they've learned new skills and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1284.47,"endTime":1286.329,"body":"they've taken on risk and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1286.33,"endTime":1287.859,"body":"they've stepped out in new things."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1287.86,"endTime":1289.629,"body":"And I, I think I want to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1289.63,"endTime":1290.949,"body":"that reality is that there are"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1290.95,"endTime":1292.989,"body":"pastors that, maybe"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1292.99,"endTime":1294.879,"body":"think that's not their gift, but it"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1294.88,"endTime":1295.689,"body":"actually is."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1295.69,"endTime":1297.969,"body":"80% of pastors can lead"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1297.97,"endTime":1299.439,"body":"this with help."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1299.44,"endTime":1302.499,"body":"We've seen pastors in our province"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1302.5,"endTime":1304.329,"body":"revitalize one church,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1304.33,"endTime":1306.369,"body":"and then after four years, leave"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1306.37,"endTime":1307.899,"body":"that church and go to a church"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1307.9,"endTime":1309.939,"body":"that's lower and plateaued"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1309.94,"endTime":1312.669,"body":"and take on the same task."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1312.67,"endTime":1314.799,"body":"So it's an amazing"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1314.8,"endTime":1316.509,"body":"thing when you see leaders step into"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1316.51,"endTime":1318.399,"body":"those callings and giftings"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1318.4,"endTime":1319.968,"body":"and even churches that are now"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1319.969,"endTime":1320.969,"body":"growing,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1322.21,"endTime":1324.069,"body":"now these pastors are finding"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1324.07,"endTime":1325.389,"body":"themselves - they've never planted"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1325.39,"endTime":1326.559,"body":"before - now they're finding"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1326.56,"endTime":1328.239,"body":"themselves having to think about,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1328.24,"endTime":1329.799,"body":"okay, I want to plant a church over"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1329.8,"endTime":1331.419,"body":"here. We gotta get a campus over"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1331.42,"endTime":1333.219,"body":"here. I got to raise up leaders."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1333.22,"endTime":1334.539,"body":"So the gift mix."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1334.54,"endTime":1336.969,"body":"The gift mix is incredible."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1336.97,"endTime":1338.649,"body":"But you do have - you can't just"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1338.65,"endTime":1339.939,"body":"stay where you are."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1339.94,"endTime":1341.169,"body":"You cannot stay here."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1341.17,"endTime":1343.299,"body":"You've gotta move forward."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1343.3,"endTime":1344.319,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1344.32,"endTime":1346.689,"body":"And and also, we believe just"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1346.69,"endTime":1349.689,"body":"that with humility"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1349.69,"endTime":1351.639,"body":"and, you know, walking"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1351.64,"endTime":1353.799,"body":"in, you know, God's"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1353.8,"endTime":1355.299,"body":"grace."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1355.3,"endTime":1357.579,"body":"Well, a lot of these leaders"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1357.58,"endTime":1359.649,"body":"can turn things around and can plant"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1359.65,"endTime":1360.729,"body":"churches. People think, well, I"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1360.73,"endTime":1362.049,"body":"could never plant a church."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1362.05,"endTime":1364.209,"body":"Yeah, but you have the Holy Spirit."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1364.21,"endTime":1365.289,"body":"You've got God helping you."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1365.29,"endTime":1367.629,"body":"You've got people that will champion"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1367.63,"endTime":1369.219,"body":"you. I can't revitalize a church."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1369.22,"endTime":1370.329,"body":"Yes you can."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1370.33,"endTime":1372.459,"body":"Holy spirit can help you."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1372.46,"endTime":1374.289,"body":"And so, you know, we we have"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1374.29,"endTime":1376.209,"body":"to remind ourselves that we"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1376.21,"endTime":1378.909,"body":"don't have these limiting thoughts"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1378.91,"endTime":1380.28,"body":"around either of these things."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1380.281,"endTime":1381.879,"body":"Like, well, that's only for"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1381.88,"endTime":1383.949,"body":"so-and-so or that's only -- For us"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1383.95,"endTime":1385.779,"body":"to just say, God, what do you want"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1385.78,"endTime":1386.709,"body":"to do?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1386.71,"endTime":1388.509,"body":"And I'm going to lean into your"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1388.51,"endTime":1390.219,"body":"strength and your power and your"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1390.22,"endTime":1392.139,"body":"wisdom to do it, because I can't"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1392.14,"endTime":1394.119,"body":"do it on my own strength."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1394.12,"endTime":1395.499,"body":"There isn't a pastor out there that"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1395.5,"endTime":1397.419,"body":"can vitalize a church on his"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1397.42,"endTime":1398.949,"body":"own strength. There isn't a pastor"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1398.95,"endTime":1400.329,"body":"out there that can plant a church on"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1400.33,"endTime":1401.349,"body":"his own strength."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1401.35,"endTime":1403.239,"body":"It has to be that deep reliance"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1403.24,"endTime":1404.499,"body":"on the moving of God's Spirit in"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1404.5,"endTime":1405.85,"body":"your life and"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1406.99,"endTime":1408.669,"body":"using the gifts that God has given"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1408.67,"endTime":1410.169,"body":"you for His - that He has gifted you"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1410.17,"endTime":1411.969,"body":"with - for His glory."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1411.97,"endTime":1413.829,"body":"And so it's like reminding ourselves"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1413.83,"endTime":1415.179,"body":"of the body of Christ."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1415.18,"endTime":1416.303,"body":"It's like, how can you just say,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1416.304,"endTime":1417.639,"body":"we're just going to vitalize"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1416.304,"endTime":1417.639,"body":"churches, we're"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1417.64,"endTime":1418.449,"body":"just going to plant."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1418.45,"endTime":1419.799,"body":"No, there's different gifts to the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1419.8,"endTime":1421.749,"body":"body. How can one hand to the foot"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1421.75,"endTime":1423.879,"body":"and say, we don't need you?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1423.88,"endTime":1425.079,"body":"That is just not going to work."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1425.08,"endTime":1427.149,"body":"So, one of the things, Jeremiah,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1427.15,"endTime":1428.529,"body":"we always like to do is bring in the"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1428.53,"endTime":1429.53,"body":"Bible"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1430.36,"endTime":1431.889,"body":"to this conversation."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1431.89,"endTime":1432.89,"body":"Like, is this actually"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1434.05,"endTime":1435.582,"body":"true? Is this something that -- And,"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1436.93,"endTime":1438.309,"body":"Michael, you have some thoughts."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1438.31,"endTime":1439.119,"body":"I have some thoughts."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1439.12,"endTime":1440.499,"body":"And then Jeremiah, we'll lean over"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1440.5,"endTime":1441.279,"body":"to you."},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1441.28,"endTime":1442.359,"body":"Michael, what are your thoughts"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1442.36,"endTime":1443.36,"body":"about this?"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1444.88,"endTime":1445.88,"body":"You know, I guess"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1446.98,"endTime":1448.599,"body":"I want to restate the counter"},{"speaker":"in a courtroom","startTime":1448.6,"endTime":1449.6,"body":"statement,"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1450.52,"endTime":1452.559,"body":"We should"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1452.56,"endTime":1454.689,"body":"be revitalizing churches"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1454.69,"endTime":1457.029,"body":"and planting new churches"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1457.03,"endTime":1459.489,"body":"at the same time."},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1459.49,"endTime":1461.469,"body":"Planting new churches does not mean"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1461.47,"endTime":1463.479,"body":"abandoning of the existing"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1463.48,"endTime":1464.739,"body":"churches."},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1464.74,"endTime":1467.379,"body":"So is that in the Bible, Michael?"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1467.38,"endTime":1469.389,"body":"Yes, it's definitely modeled"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1469.39,"endTime":1470.439,"body":"in Scripture."},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1470.44,"endTime":1472.359,"body":"And I just believe"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1472.36,"endTime":1473.649,"body":"that men and women across the"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1473.65,"endTime":1474.728,"body":"country can look at this"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1476.05,"endTime":1477.489,"body":"example and say, you know what?"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1477.49,"endTime":1479.619,"body":"If that's in Scripture, I"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1479.62,"endTime":1481.629,"body":"can do that too. So in Acts chapter"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1481.63,"endTime":1484.089,"body":"16, there's"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1484.09,"endTime":1486.369,"body":"Paul the Apostle and his crew that"},{"speaker":"which would be","startTime":1486.37,"endTime":1488.349,"body":"are traveling around, you know, and"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1488.35,"endTime":1490.089,"body":"4"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1490.09,"endTime":1492.009,"body":"it says, \"As they traveled from town"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1492.01,"endTime":1492.999,"body":"to town, they delivered the"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1493.0,"endTime":1494.739,"body":"decisions, reached by the apostles"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1494.74,"endTime":1496.509,"body":"and elders in Jerusalem for the"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1496.51,"endTime":1497.679,"body":"people to obey."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1497.68,"endTime":1499.659,"body":"So the churches were strengthened"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1499.66,"endTime":1501.129,"body":"in their faith and grew daily"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1501.13,"endTime":1502.989,"body":"number.\" So you have this picture of"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1502.99,"endTime":1504.879,"body":"Paul and this group"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1504.88,"endTime":1506.439,"body":"traveling around building up"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1506.44,"endTime":1508.459,"body":"existing churches, churches that"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1508.46,"endTime":1510.549,"body":"are already established, getting"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1510.55,"endTime":1512.109,"body":"even healthier than they are."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1512.11,"endTime":1513.639,"body":"And then look what happens right"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1513.64,"endTime":1515.679,"body":"after. This  famous dream"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1515.68,"endTime":1516.759,"body":"happens, right, where Paul is"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1516.76,"endTime":1517.749,"body":"sleeping."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1517.75,"endTime":1519.069,"body":"And it says during the night, Paul"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1519.07,"endTime":1521.409,"body":"had a vision of a man from Macedonia"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1521.41,"endTime":1523.149,"body":"standing and begging, come over and"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1523.15,"endTime":1524.615,"body":"help us. So you have-- And"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1526.09,"endTime":1528.039,"body":"right before that happened, Paul"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1528.04,"endTime":1529.809,"body":"and his group, they're encouraging"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1529.81,"endTime":1531.639,"body":"established churches and just,"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1531.64,"endTime":1532.994,"body":"you know, making them better"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1534.1,"endTime":1535.119,"body":"and and building them up."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1535.12,"endTime":1537.129,"body":"And then right after,  you have Paul"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1537.13,"endTime":1539.229,"body":"and his group going and going"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1539.23,"endTime":1540.759,"body":"and starting brand new works, works"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1540.76,"endTime":1542.889,"body":"that haven't happened before."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1542.89,"endTime":1544.719,"body":"And I think this is -- I"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1544.72,"endTime":1546.309,"body":"love how it's not -- We didn't have"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1546.31,"endTime":1547.599,"body":"to pick and choose like, here's one"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1547.6,"endTime":1549.459,"body":"story of Paul doing this and"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1549.46,"endTime":1550.839,"body":"here's another story of Paul."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1550.84,"endTime":1552.309,"body":"It's within the same story."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1552.31,"endTime":1553.989,"body":"Paul is doing both of these things."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1553.99,"endTime":1556.089,"body":"And it didn't say Paul only planted"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1556.09,"endTime":1557.499,"body":"churches because that's what matters."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1557.5,"endTime":1558.639,"body":"And it doesn't say Paul only"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1558.64,"endTime":1560.349,"body":"encouraged established churches"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1560.35,"endTime":1561.129,"body":"because that's what mattered."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1561.13,"endTime":1562.809,"body":"No, no, Paul was doing both."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1562.81,"endTime":1564.549,"body":"And this is the model that God gives"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1564.55,"endTime":1565.55,"body":"us in Scripture."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1568.669,"body":"That's excellent. Michael."},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1568.67,"endTime":1570.529,"body":"I was reading,  just picking up"},{"speaker":"this is what it says. In Acts 16","startTime":1570.53,"endTime":1572.719,"body":"on that, a blog by John Beeson,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1572.72,"endTime":1574.549,"body":"Churches, like people,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1574.55,"endTime":1576.109,"body":"are intended to be streams, not"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1576.11,"endTime":1577.11,"body":"ponds; Highways,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1577.97,"endTime":1579.649,"body":"not cul de sacs."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1579.65,"endTime":1581.329,"body":"The book of Acts shows us a healthy"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1581.33,"endTime":1583.159,"body":"church multiplying itself across the"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1583.16,"endTime":1585.079,"body":"Roman Empire and beyond."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1585.08,"endTime":1586.369,"body":"Paul is a church planter."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1586.37,"endTime":1588.499,"body":"Paul's letters to Timothy"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1588.5,"endTime":1590.314,"body":"and Titus are coaching documents --"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1590.315,"endTime":1592.129,"body":"so we talk about"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1592.13,"endTime":1593.989,"body":"coaching all the time, Jeremiah,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1593.99,"endTime":1595.459,"body":"for these elder pastors."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1595.46,"endTime":1596.839,"body":"So Paul's taking care of the"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1598.279,"body":"existing churches."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1598.28,"endTime":1599.749,"body":"He's making sure that they haven't"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1599.75,"endTime":1601.999,"body":"lost their their true north."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1603.44,"endTime":1604.969,"body":"Many forget these letters weren't"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1604.97,"endTime":1606.559,"body":"letters to a single church."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1606.56,"endTime":1608.63,"body":"Paul wrote to one city church,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1609.74,"endTime":1611.269,"body":"and he didn't write just to one."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1611.27,"endTime":1613.939,"body":"He wrote to a network of churches."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1613.94,"endTime":1615.559,"body":"And these churches were so connected"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1615.56,"endTime":1617.449,"body":"that Paul could write one letter"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1617.45,"endTime":1618.739,"body":"and they would be read by all of"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1618.74,"endTime":1620.749,"body":"them. And as you look at"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1620.75,"endTime":1622.159,"body":"some of the church planting journey,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1622.16,"endTime":1623.899,"body":"as he strengthened these churches,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1623.9,"endTime":1625.129,"body":"guess what they did?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1625.13,"endTime":1626.959,"body":"Jerusalem started churches"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1626.96,"endTime":1629.359,"body":"in Samaria and Caesarea,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1629.36,"endTime":1631.279,"body":"who started grandaughter churches"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1631.28,"endTime":1633.109,"body":"in Antioch, who"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1633.11,"endTime":1635.269,"body":"birthed great granddaughter churches"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1635.27,"endTime":1637.699,"body":"in Galatia and Ephesus,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1637.7,"endTime":1639.799,"body":"and then the Ephesians, then"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1639.8,"endTime":1641.629,"body":"multiplied, great great"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1641.63,"endTime":1643.579,"body":"granddaughter churches in"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1643.58,"endTime":1645.412,"body":"the cities of Colosse, Hierpolis,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1645.413,"endTime":1646.413,"body":"and Laodicea."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1648.14,"endTime":1650.029,"body":"So there was a strengthening of the"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1650.03,"endTime":1652.339,"body":"church for multiplication."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1652.34,"endTime":1655.099,"body":"Jeremiah, any thoughts around this?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1655.1,"endTime":1656.449,"body":"Thing that gets me when I go to"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1656.45,"endTime":1658.339,"body":"Revelation, and I see the Lord"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1658.34,"endTime":1660.139,"body":"of the church blowing out the candle"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1660.14,"endTime":1661.999,"body":"of the churches, and"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1662.0,"endTime":1663.859,"body":"I wonder, where are"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1663.86,"endTime":1665.449,"body":"those churches in Revelation?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1665.45,"endTime":1666.469,"body":"Like, did they close?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1668.3,"endTime":1669.3,"body":"And why?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1670.25,"endTime":1672.829,"body":"Disobedience, disobedience."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1672.83,"endTime":1674.479,"body":"And I, again, I don't care if you're"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1674.48,"endTime":1676.429,"body":"one year old or 100 years old as"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1676.43,"endTime":1677.779,"body":"a church, you have got to be"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1677.78,"endTime":1678.769,"body":"obedient."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1678.77,"endTime":1681.619,"body":"Jesus said that you will bear fruit,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1681.62,"endTime":1683.539,"body":"right? John 15 and"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1683.54,"endTime":1684.859,"body":"what's the fruit?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1684.86,"endTime":1686.779,"body":"The fruit is kingdom expansion."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1686.78,"endTime":1688.609,"body":"Witness. People coming to"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1688.61,"endTime":1690.469,"body":"Christ. People following Jesus."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1690.47,"endTime":1691.489,"body":"Jesus says, I came."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1691.49,"endTime":1693.379,"body":"Why? To seek and save those"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1693.38,"endTime":1695.629,"body":"who were lost. If the church"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1695.63,"endTime":1698.209,"body":"is not about Christ's business,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1698.21,"endTime":1699.949,"body":"He will not bless that church"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1699.95,"endTime":1701.509,"body":"because that's not His church."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1701.51,"endTime":1703.399,"body":"So I think it's also a"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1703.4,"endTime":1705.349,"body":"call to be obedient no"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1705.35,"endTime":1706.759,"body":"matter what."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1706.76,"endTime":1708.919,"body":"Health is a choice,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1708.92,"endTime":1710.179,"body":"and it's a hard choice."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1710.18,"endTime":1711.679,"body":"When I want to lose weight, I have"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1711.68,"endTime":1712.68,"body":"to forego that donut"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1714.08,"endTime":1715.039,"body":"from Tim Hortons."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1715.04,"endTime":1717.109,"body":"That's a tough choice for me."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1717.11,"endTime":1719.149,"body":"Health is a choice, and"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1719.15,"endTime":1720.769,"body":"a lot of pastors have to make, and"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1720.77,"endTime":1722.809,"body":"churches have to make, tough choices"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1722.81,"endTime":1724.939,"body":"to be healthy. To follow Christ,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1724.94,"endTime":1726.829,"body":"even when He leads into places that"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1726.83,"endTime":1728.809,"body":"are scary, even"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1728.81,"endTime":1730.76,"body":"when He leads places that are hard."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1732.13,"endTime":1734.139,"body":"One of the things that, I"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1734.14,"endTime":1736.359,"body":"know that in the vitalization"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1736.36,"endTime":1738.399,"body":"process, one of the very"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1738.4,"endTime":1739.45,"body":"first things that"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1740.5,"endTime":1742.479,"body":"you and others across"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1742.48,"endTime":1744.939,"body":"our nation, in other districts,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1744.94,"endTime":1746.859,"body":"they walk the church through"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1746.86,"endTime":1749.149,"body":"a time of repentance."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1749.15,"endTime":1751.249,"body":"For disobedience, for not expanding"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1751.25,"endTime":1752.389,"body":"the kingdom."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1752.39,"endTime":1753.859,"body":"For not focusing on making"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1753.86,"endTime":1754.86,"body":"disciples."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1755.45,"endTime":1757.099,"body":"There's a sense of acknowledgment"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1757.1,"endTime":1759.319,"body":"that has to happen first."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1759.32,"endTime":1761.329,"body":"And I think what can"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1761.33,"endTime":1763.099,"body":"happen too, even in church planting"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1763.1,"endTime":1765.409,"body":"world, is there is that initial"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1765.41,"endTime":1766.999,"body":"push for reaching people, reaching"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1767.0,"endTime":1768.103,"body":"people. But once you start growing -"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1768.104,"endTime":1770.269,"body":"Michael, you would know this - once"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1770.27,"endTime":1772.189,"body":"you start growing and expanding and"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1772.19,"endTime":1774.019,"body":"managing some of those things,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1774.02,"endTime":1775.549,"body":"it's like, I just want to manage the"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1775.55,"endTime":1776.989,"body":"people I have."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1776.99,"endTime":1778.789,"body":"It's really hard to reach more."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1778.79,"endTime":1780.529,"body":"Why would I want to make more work"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1780.53,"endTime":1781.579,"body":"for me?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1781.58,"endTime":1783.409,"body":"But there has to be this sense of"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1783.41,"endTime":1785.239,"body":"because we're obedient."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1785.24,"endTime":1786.24,"body":"And if we're disobedient, well,"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1788.92,"endTime":1790.149,"body":"what do we got to do? We have to"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1790.15,"endTime":1791.919,"body":"confess and repent."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1791.92,"endTime":1794.049,"body":"There's no way around it."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1794.05,"endTime":1795.039,"body":"There's no way around it."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1795.04,"endTime":1795.849,"body":"Thanks for sharing that."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1795.85,"endTime":1796.85,"body":"Because that's really"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1797.71,"endTime":1798.879,"body":"important. This is all about"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1798.88,"endTime":1800.469,"body":"obedience in the end."},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1800.47,"endTime":1803.259,"body":"What is Jesus asking us to do?"},{"speaker":"and he wrote","startTime":1803.26,"endTime":1805.359,"body":"So the counter statement is"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1805.36,"endTime":1807.759,"body":"We should be revitalizing"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1807.76,"endTime":1809.589,"body":"churches and planting new ones"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1809.59,"endTime":1810.759,"body":"at the same time."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1810.76,"endTime":1812.799,"body":"Planting new churches does not mean"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1812.8,"endTime":1815.079,"body":"abandoning of existing"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1815.08,"endTime":1816.309,"body":"churches."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1816.31,"endTime":1818.289,"body":"So since we believe this is our"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1818.29,"endTime":1820.149,"body":"counter statement, what are"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1820.15,"endTime":1822.159,"body":"some next steps, some practical"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1822.16,"endTime":1823.599,"body":"things that we could do?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1823.6,"endTime":1825.249,"body":"Michael, pass it over to you."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1825.25,"endTime":1827.169,"body":"What can we do here?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1827.17,"endTime":1828.64,"body":"If we believe this to be true?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1829.74,"endTime":1831.689,"body":"Yeah. It takes"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1831.69,"endTime":1833.249,"body":"a different mindset. Right."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1833.25,"endTime":1834.579,"body":"We're not choosing planting."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1834.58,"endTime":1836.429,"body":"We're not"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1836.43,"endTime":1837.539,"body":"saying we're going to only church"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1837.54,"endTime":1838.409,"body":"plant. We're not saying we're going"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1838.41,"endTime":1839.249,"body":"to only revitalize."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1839.25,"endTime":1840.299,"body":"We're going to do both of these"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1840.3,"endTime":1842.189,"body":"things. And kind of tying back to"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1842.19,"endTime":1843.959,"body":"that original analogy that I gave at"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1843.96,"endTime":1845.609,"body":"the beginning of, you know, you have"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1845.61,"endTime":1847.109,"body":"someone has a field."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1847.11,"endTime":1848.279,"body":"It's not bringing in a harvest."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1848.28,"endTime":1849.329,"body":"You definitely don't add a second"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1849.33,"endTime":1850.979,"body":"field. That's true."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1850.98,"endTime":1852.659,"body":"But the good news is, it's not just"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1852.66,"endTime":1854.309,"body":"one person with the field."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1854.31,"endTime":1856.379,"body":"It's an entire community"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1856.38,"endTime":1857.364,"body":"of, you know, stick with the --"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1857.365,"endTime":1859.439,"body":"we're really going with the farming"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1859.44,"endTime":1860.759,"body":"analogy here --  but it's a whole"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1860.76,"endTime":1862.409,"body":"community of farmers."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1862.41,"endTime":1864.269,"body":"And if some aren't doing well, true,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1864.27,"endTime":1865.619,"body":"maybe they shouldn't add a second."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1865.62,"endTime":1867.509,"body":"But the truth is, some"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1867.51,"endTime":1869.189,"body":"farmers have some fields that are"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1869.19,"endTime":1871.439,"body":"bringing in a huge return, and those"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1871.44,"endTime":1873.149,"body":"farmers need to keep buying and need"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1873.15,"endTime":1874.949,"body":"to keep expanding and maybe can go"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1874.95,"endTime":1876.749,"body":"and help build others."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1876.75,"endTime":1878.399,"body":"And, you know, it's this false"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1878.4,"endTime":1879.509,"body":"dichotomy, right?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1879.51,"endTime":1881.279,"body":"Do we revitalize or do we plant?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1881.28,"endTime":1882.749,"body":"There's lots of things that are"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1882.75,"endTime":1883.75,"body":"both-and, right. And,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1885.18,"endTime":1886.019,"body":"like, investing into your"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1886.02,"endTime":1887.999,"body":"relationship with your child"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1888.0,"endTime":1889.529,"body":"and also investing into your"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1889.53,"endTime":1890.939,"body":"relationship with your spouse."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1890.94,"endTime":1892.349,"body":"Right. Both of those need to be"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1892.35,"endTime":1893.279,"body":"invested into."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1893.28,"endTime":1894.389,"body":"You can't choose one."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1894.39,"endTime":1896.279,"body":"Or do we eat healthy or"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1896.28,"endTime":1897.389,"body":"do we exercise?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1897.39,"endTime":1898.319,"body":"Which one do we do?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1898.32,"endTime":1899.339,"body":"Well, no."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1899.34,"endTime":1900.629,"body":"We want to be healthy."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1900.63,"endTime":1902.849,"body":"We do both of those things, right."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1902.85,"endTime":1905.129,"body":"And we have examples"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1905.13,"endTime":1906.899,"body":"of churches that do both."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1906.9,"endTime":1908.669,"body":"And our movement is a movement that"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1908.67,"endTime":1910.619,"body":"does both. And I would just"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1910.62,"endTime":1911.639,"body":"-- yeah, I would just challenge the"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1911.64,"endTime":1913.289,"body":"mindset of all of us."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1913.29,"endTime":1915.149,"body":"I think we all get caught up into"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1915.15,"endTime":1917.069,"body":"kind of where our default bias"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1917.07,"endTime":1918.239,"body":"would lead us to."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1918.24,"endTime":1919.139,"body":"And I think it's just, you know"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1919.14,"endTime":1921.089,"body":"what? Let's be okay with doing both"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1921.09,"endTime":1922.979,"body":"of those and just celebrating"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1922.98,"endTime":1924.989,"body":"and cheering on both of those,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1924.99,"endTime":1925.889,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1925.89,"endTime":1928.079,"body":"Yeah, 100%."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1928.08,"endTime":1929.039,"body":"Jeremiah, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1929.04,"endTime":1930.479,"body":"What can we what are some practical"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1930.48,"endTime":1932.249,"body":"things leaders can do out there to"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1932.25,"endTime":1934.259,"body":"just kind of break down this"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1934.26,"endTime":1936.119,"body":"mindset of either-or thinking and"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1936.12,"endTime":1939.029,"body":"adopt a more both-and mindset."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1939.03,"endTime":1940.859,"body":"Community, exactly"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1940.86,"endTime":1941.819,"body":"what was mentioned."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1941.82,"endTime":1943.559,"body":"You know, we are a family."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1943.56,"endTime":1944.519,"body":"We work together."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1944.52,"endTime":1946.619,"body":"We we are -- We have one mission,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1946.62,"endTime":1948.629,"body":"and that is to go and make disciples"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1948.63,"endTime":1949.949,"body":"who make disciples."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1949.95,"endTime":1951.419,"body":"So whether you're taking on an"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1951.42,"endTime":1953.069,"body":"existing church or planting a new"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1953.07,"endTime":1954.809,"body":"church, you should be of the same"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1954.81,"endTime":1955.889,"body":"mind."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1955.89,"endTime":1957.232,"body":"Church planters, multipliers, please"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1958.53,"endTime":1959.999,"body":"keep doing what you're doing and"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1960.0,"endTime":1962.039,"body":"celebrate when you're seeing"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1962.04,"endTime":1963.239,"body":"new people come to Christ."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1963.24,"endTime":1964.799,"body":"When you're seeing -- Because you're"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1964.8,"endTime":1966.749,"body":"speaking life into existing"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1966.75,"endTime":1968.759,"body":"churches that haven't seen that for"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1968.76,"endTime":1970.679,"body":"five, ten, 15 years"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1970.68,"endTime":1972.209,"body":"and you're telling them, hey, it's"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1972.21,"endTime":1973.319,"body":"possible."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1973.32,"endTime":1974.32,"body":"Don't just silo. Don't"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1975.54,"endTime":1977.339,"body":"silo. Everybody work together."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1977.34,"endTime":1979.229,"body":"I don't like when I see"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1979.23,"endTime":1980.23,"body":"some newer churches kind"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1982.14,"endTime":1983.723,"body":"of treat the older churches like,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1983.724,"endTime":1985.199,"body":"Well, that's a has been."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1985.2,"endTime":1987.479,"body":"Please come back."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1988.77,"endTime":1989.879,"body":"Help."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1989.88,"endTime":1990.88,"body":"Exactly, help. Come back and help."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1991.92,"endTime":1993.479,"body":"Lean in."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1993.48,"endTime":1995.049,"body":"Don't just dismiss."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1995.05,"endTime":1996.959,"body":"And older churches shouldn't"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1996.96,"endTime":1999.119,"body":"be getting"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":1999.12,"endTime":2000.409,"body":"defensive."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2000.41,"endTime":2001.459,"body":"I hear this all the time."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2001.46,"endTime":2002.719,"body":"Why do we need more churches?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2002.72,"endTime":2003.739,"body":"Let me tell you something, in"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2003.74,"endTime":2005.659,"body":"Canada, if you filled up all"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2005.66,"endTime":2007.519,"body":"the churches in every city,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2007.52,"endTime":2010.399,"body":"you still wouldn't have enough room"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2010.4,"endTime":2012.259,"body":"for the people in the"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2012.26,"endTime":2014.149,"body":"city, in the area, to come to"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2014.15,"endTime":2015.289,"body":"Christ."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2015.29,"endTime":2017.719,"body":"So please don't limit."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2017.72,"endTime":2019.609,"body":"So I just think, I think the"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2019.61,"endTime":2020.989,"body":"mission is clear."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2020.99,"endTime":2022.579,"body":"I don't care what your church looks"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2022.58,"endTime":2024.829,"body":"like. Micro church, Mega church,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2024.83,"endTime":2026.059,"body":"home church."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2026.06,"endTime":2027.229,"body":"The mission is clear."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2027.23,"endTime":2029.209,"body":"Go and make disciples who make"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2029.21,"endTime":2030.919,"body":"disciples. And if you're not doing"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2030.92,"endTime":2032.389,"body":"that, you're plateaued."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2032.39,"endTime":2033.529,"body":"You're not doing that, you've"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2033.53,"endTime":2034.939,"body":"mission drifted."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2034.94,"endTime":2036.739,"body":"So please keep a record of who's"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2036.74,"endTime":2038.659,"body":"coming to Christ, you know, who's"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2038.66,"endTime":2040.819,"body":"getting baptized, and then"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2040.82,"endTime":2041.959,"body":"face those facts."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2041.96,"endTime":2043.999,"body":"If it's not happening,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2044.0,"endTime":2046.099,"body":"make the adjustments"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2046.1,"endTime":2047.239,"body":"so that it happens."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2047.24,"endTime":2048.829,"body":"If people aren't becoming disciples"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2048.83,"endTime":2050.299,"body":"and they're just staying as babies"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2050.3,"endTime":2052.279,"body":"who are believers who act like"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2052.28,"endTime":2054.859,"body":"babies, make the adjustments."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2054.86,"endTime":2056.928,"body":"Any church can do this,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2056.929,"endTime":2058.879,"body":"whether they're three months old or"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2058.88,"endTime":2060.638,"body":"100 years old, but you have to have"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2060.639,"endTime":2062.718,"body":"a commitment to obedience"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2062.719,"endTime":2064.879,"body":"and a commitment to the mission."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2064.88,"endTime":2067.158,"body":"Celebrating the win is so important,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2067.159,"endTime":2068.159,"body":"I think, because, when"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2070.05,"endTime":2071.908,"body":"we see ourselves like"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2071.909,"endTime":2072.773,"body":"--talking about the body of Christ,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2072.774,"endTime":2073.774,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2074.76,"endTime":2075.988,"body":"you know just how we all work"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2075.989,"endTime":2077.189,"body":"together --when one wins, we"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2077.19,"endTime":2078.988,"body":"actually all win."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2078.989,"endTime":2080.579,"body":"Because we're all -- like, we're"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2080.58,"endTime":2083.009,"body":"talking in our --we're launching a"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2083.01,"endTime":2084.509,"body":"Multiple Network initiative 'Every"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2084.51,"endTime":2085.649,"body":"Church a Multiplying Church'."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2085.65,"endTime":2086.609,"body":"And there's two ways."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2087.839,"body":"Some are going to plant, but"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2087.84,"endTime":2089.819,"body":"everyone can partner."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2089.82,"endTime":2092.099,"body":"Because we're all in this together."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2092.1,"endTime":2093.839,"body":"There's no us and them."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2093.84,"endTime":2096.899,"body":"It's just we're all in it together."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2096.9,"endTime":2098.225,"body":"Getting back to the farming analogy."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2098.226,"endTime":2099.226,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2101.43,"endTime":2103.379,"body":"heard this story. My grandpa had"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2103.38,"endTime":2105.659,"body":"gotten sick. He was a farmer."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2105.66,"endTime":2106.66,"body":"And some neighbors in"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2108.18,"endTime":2110.069,"body":"the farming community heard"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2110.07,"endTime":2111.959,"body":"that he was sick and they"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2111.96,"endTime":2113.909,"body":"stopped harvesting their"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2113.91,"endTime":2114.91,"body":"crops."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2115.8,"endTime":2118.259,"body":"And made sure all"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2118.26,"endTime":2120.509,"body":"of my grandpa's crops were in"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2120.51,"endTime":2122.549,"body":"the storehouse"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2122.55,"endTime":2124.439,"body":"before they even started on"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2124.44,"endTime":2125.549,"body":"theirs."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2125.55,"endTime":2127.829,"body":"And this would be like"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2127.83,"endTime":2129.359,"body":"-- When I heard that story, I'm just"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2129.36,"endTime":2131.189,"body":"like, that's what church"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2131.19,"endTime":2132.329,"body":"should be."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2132.33,"endTime":2133.409,"body":"If there's one church that's"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2133.41,"endTime":2134.699,"body":"struggling, there should be other"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2134.7,"endTime":2136.739,"body":"churches that come in and go, hey,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2136.74,"endTime":2137.807,"body":"we're here to help."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2137.808,"endTime":2139.709,"body":"And then"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2139.71,"endTime":2142.109,"body":"celebrate each other's wins."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2142.11,"endTime":2142.499,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2142.5,"endTime":2143.819,"body":"Not be competitive."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2143.82,"endTime":2144.989,"body":"I don't like that."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2144.99,"endTime":2146.639,"body":"Jeremiah, you were on fire there."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2146.64,"endTime":2148.619,"body":"Like we can't be"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2148.62,"endTime":2149.789,"body":"competitive."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2149.79,"endTime":2151.409,"body":"We're all in this together, and we"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2151.41,"endTime":2153.539,"body":"have to see that one church"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2153.54,"endTime":2155.519,"body":"winning means that we're all winning"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2155.52,"endTime":2157.244,"body":"with them, and they're with us."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2157.245,"endTime":2159.599,"body":"And we're not doing well, then"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2159.6,"endTime":2161.789,"body":"they feel the pain, too."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2161.79,"endTime":2163.525,"body":"Instead of these silos that just---"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2163.526,"endTime":2165.359,"body":"No, no, no, that's"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2165.36,"endTime":2166.379,"body":"that's got to go."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2166.38,"endTime":2168.225,"body":"This both-and thinking really has"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2169.35,"endTime":2170.369,"body":"to come to the forefront."},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2170.37,"endTime":2171.749,"body":"Jeremiah, did you have something"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2171.75,"endTime":2172.499,"body":"else to add?"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2172.5,"endTime":2174.569,"body":"My 25 person church"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2174.57,"endTime":2176.459,"body":"in downtown Edmonton here just"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2176.46,"endTime":2178.589,"body":"recently participated in a plan"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2178.59,"endTime":2180.569,"body":"to have a church in Calgary,"},{"speaker":"again","startTime":2180.57,"endTime":2182.819,"body":"and that to me should tell"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2182.82,"endTime":2185.039,"body":"Don't"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2185.04,"endTime":2187.139,"body":"wait. Like just get involved"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2187.14,"endTime":2189.929,"body":"somehow in multiplication."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2189.93,"endTime":2191.07,"body":"Find a way to"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2192.18,"endTime":2194.099,"body":"invest in somebody who's"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2194.1,"endTime":2195.869,"body":"got a vision and a dream to reach"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2195.87,"endTime":2197.819,"body":"lost people in a different"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2197.82,"endTime":2199.829,"body":"locale and get behind it."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2199.83,"endTime":2201.689,"body":"We didn't spend big, big"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2201.69,"endTime":2204.059,"body":"money. We did some consultation."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2204.06,"endTime":2205.949,"body":"We supported in different ways"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2205.95,"endTime":2207.569,"body":"financially, in prayer."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2207.57,"endTime":2209.549,"body":"But that's a part of us now."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2209.55,"endTime":2211.679,"body":"And we celebrate that church"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2211.68,"endTime":2213.389,"body":"and our people are like looking"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2213.39,"endTime":2215.459,"body":"around at the 25 of us going, well,"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2215.46,"endTime":2216.389,"body":"why?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2216.39,"endTime":2217.859,"body":"Why would we plant a church in"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2217.86,"endTime":2218.759,"body":"Calgary?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2218.76,"endTime":2220.739,"body":"And my answer to that is why"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2220.74,"endTime":2222.329,"body":"not? Why not?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2222.33,"endTime":2223.529,"body":"Yeah, why not?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2223.53,"endTime":2225.329,"body":"We can all partner."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2225.33,"endTime":2227.219,"body":"Every single one of us can partner."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2227.22,"endTime":2228.389,"body":"Love that."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2228.39,"endTime":2230.219,"body":"And I know your church and"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2230.22,"endTime":2231.359,"body":"I know the church you're talking"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2231.36,"endTime":2232.769,"body":"about, and it's absolutely"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2232.77,"endTime":2233.699,"body":"brilliant."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2233.7,"endTime":2234.809,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2234.81,"endTime":2236.399,"body":"That's so cool."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2236.4,"endTime":2238.439,"body":"Because even a partnership"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2238.44,"endTime":2239.699,"body":"in a small way is saying, we're"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2239.7,"endTime":2240.599,"body":"behind you."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2240.6,"endTime":2242.489,"body":"We're going to win together."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2242.49,"endTime":2243.689,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2243.69,"endTime":2245.009,"body":"Michael, do you have any closing"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2245.01,"endTime":2247.559,"body":"thoughts before we sign off today?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2247.56,"endTime":2248.849,"body":"Yeah. Well, just summarizing what"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2250.05,"endTime":2251.369,"body":"you two were just talking about."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2251.37,"endTime":2252.839,"body":"At the end of the day, it's not"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2252.84,"endTime":2254.819,"body":"about, Oh, is"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2254.82,"endTime":2256.439,"body":"it a new church? Is it a revitalized"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2256.44,"endTime":2258.569,"body":"church? Honestly, like, who cares"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2258.57,"endTime":2259.679,"body":"what the label."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2259.68,"endTime":2261.239,"body":"Is it making disciples?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2261.24,"endTime":2263.939,"body":"Is the kingdom moving forward?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2263.94,"endTime":2264.922,"body":"Then do it, you know."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2264.923,"endTime":2267.029,"body":"And guess what, that"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2267.03,"endTime":2268.919,"body":"means taking new ground"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2268.92,"endTime":2270.179,"body":"with, you know, the blank page."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2270.18,"endTime":2271.169,"body":"A community without a church."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2271.17,"endTime":2272.009,"body":"It means that."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2272.01,"endTime":2273.659,"body":"But it also means, hey, this church"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2273.66,"endTime":2275.069,"body":"probably isn't the healthiest."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2275.07,"endTime":2276.239,"body":"Let's make sure we can get it"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2276.24,"endTime":2277.049,"body":"healthy. It's both."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2277.05,"endTime":2278.939,"body":"It's both of those things together."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2278.94,"endTime":2280.799,"body":"And if we can live with that"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2280.8,"endTime":2282.749,"body":"mindset, our fellowship"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2282.75,"endTime":2283.75,"body":"has a beautiful future."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2284.98,"endTime":2286.129,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2286.13,"endTime":2287.499,"body":"Jeremiah, you guys have created a"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2287.5,"endTime":2288.579,"body":"ton of resources."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2288.58,"endTime":2289.539,"body":"Where can we find them?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2289.54,"endTime":2291.369,"body":"How can we get access to them?"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2291.37,"endTime":2292.37,"body":"ChurchVitalization.ca"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2293.59,"endTime":2295.449,"body":"is kind of our hub for all things"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2295.45,"endTime":2296.45,"body":"church vitalization."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2296.62,"endTime":2299.229,"body":"We also have a vitalization"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2299.23,"endTime":2301.209,"body":"course on"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2301.21,"endTime":2302.679,"body":"Thinkific. So if you just go"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2304.54,"endTime":2306.399,"body":"ABNWTThinkific you'll find a"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2306.4,"endTime":2307.275,"body":"free course there."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2307.276,"endTime":2308.919,"body":"Everything's free."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2308.92,"endTime":2310.749,"body":"We want to assist and"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2310.75,"endTime":2312.279,"body":"help. And all of our articles and"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2312.28,"endTime":2314.289,"body":"blogs on reaching lost people"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2314.29,"endTime":2315.909,"body":"and training is all found on"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2315.91,"endTime":2316.91,"body":"ABNWT.com."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2319.09,"endTime":2320.529,"body":"Yeah. And just because you're a"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2320.53,"endTime":2322.089,"body":"church plant doesn't mean you can't"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2322.09,"endTime":2323.349,"body":"take advantage of those great"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2323.35,"endTime":2325.059,"body":"resources there."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2325.06,"endTime":2326.979,"body":"Like it's -- there's a lot"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2326.98,"endTime":2328.139,"body":"of things that are going to help you"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2328.14,"endTime":2330.219,"body":"grow your church"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2330.22,"endTime":2332.349,"body":"and see people get saved."},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2332.35,"endTime":2333.669,"body":"We have a website as well,"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2333.67,"endTime":2334.67,"body":"PAOCMultiply.com. Lots"},{"speaker":"every church leader","startTime":2335.59,"endTime":2337.119,"body":"of resources there."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2338.74,"endTime":2339.74,"body":"EveryChurch.ca."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2341.26,"endTime":2343.569,"body":"We're putting some new resources"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2343.57,"endTime":2345.489,"body":"on that landing page"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2345.49,"endTime":2346.449,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2346.45,"endTime":2348.039,"body":"So we want to help you however we"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2348.04,"endTime":2349.479,"body":"can."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2349.48,"endTime":2350.979,"body":"Thanks, Jeremiah, for jumping on"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2350.98,"endTime":2352.839,"body":"today, Michael, for co-hosting"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2352.84,"endTime":2354.879,"body":"as well. And just, thanks"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2354.88,"endTime":2357.549,"body":"for your time, effort and thoughts."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2357.55,"endTime":2359.499,"body":"And, we're excited about great"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2359.5,"endTime":2361.059,"body":"days ahead in Canada."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2361.06,"endTime":2362.679,"body":"Thanks, guys, for jumping on today."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2362.68,"endTime":2363.399,"body":"See ya."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2363.4,"endTime":2364.839,"body":"Thank you, Paul, for all you do."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2364.84,"endTime":2365.84,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2366.76,"endTime":2368.019,"body":"Well, thanks for listening today."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2368.02,"endTime":2369.459,"body":"We trust this conversation was"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2369.46,"endTime":2370.539,"body":"encouraging."},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2370.54,"endTime":2371.829,"body":"If you want more information on"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2371.83,"endTime":2373.719,"body":"church multiplication resources,"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2373.72,"endTime":2374.919,"body":"or if you think we can help you in"},{"speaker":"And we're launching something new","startTime":2374.92,"endTime":2376.959,"body":"your church multiplication journey,"},{"speaker":"reach out to us by email","startTime":2377.942,"endTime":2378.942,"body":"MultiplyNetwork@paoc.org."},{"speaker":"reach out to us by email","startTime":2381.82,"endTime":2382.82,"body":"Until next time."}]}