{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.45,"endTime":4.589,"body":"Hey everyone."},{"startTime":4.59,"endTime":6.179,"body":"Welcome to the Multiple Network"},{"startTime":6.18,"endTime":8.849,"body":"Podcast. My name is Paul Fraser"},{"startTime":8.85,"endTime":11.099,"body":"and so grateful that you're joining"},{"startTime":11.1,"endTime":13.559,"body":"us on number seven"},{"startTime":13.56,"endTime":16.349,"body":"of our Eight Most Common Objections"},{"startTime":16.35,"endTime":18.359,"body":"to Church Multiplication."},{"startTime":18.36,"endTime":20.309,"body":"It's part of our Every Church a"},{"startTime":20.31,"endTime":22.139,"body":"Multiplying Church initiative."},{"startTime":22.14,"endTime":24.059,"body":"We're asking all of our"},{"startTime":24.06,"endTime":26.039,"body":"churches in our tribe to be"},{"startTime":26.04,"endTime":27.809,"body":"multiplying churches by being"},{"startTime":27.81,"endTime":30.149,"body":"planting churches or partnering"},{"startTime":30.15,"endTime":30.989,"body":"churches."},{"startTime":30.99,"endTime":32.728,"body":"And we're trying to dismantle some"},{"startTime":32.729,"endTime":34.199,"body":"of those objections with this"},{"startTime":34.2,"endTime":36.149,"body":"podcast to help encourage"},{"startTime":36.15,"endTime":38.189,"body":"our pastors and leaders to"},{"startTime":38.19,"endTime":40.049,"body":"be multipliers and to"},{"startTime":40.05,"endTime":42.659,"body":"lead multiplying churches."},{"startTime":42.66,"endTime":44.399,"body":"And thank goodness I don't have to"},{"startTime":44.4,"endTime":46.349,"body":"host this podcast by"},{"startTime":46.35,"endTime":47.369,"body":"myself."},{"startTime":47.37,"endTime":49.379,"body":"Michael Bronson is back"},{"startTime":49.38,"endTime":51.119,"body":"with us again in this series."},{"startTime":51.12,"endTime":52.679,"body":"Michael, thanks so much for jumping"},{"startTime":52.68,"endTime":54.509,"body":"on. How are you today?"},{"startTime":54.51,"endTime":55.559,"body":"I'm doing well, Paul."},{"startTime":55.56,"endTime":56.369,"body":"I've missed you."},{"startTime":56.37,"endTime":57.779,"body":"I feel like it's been a long time."},{"startTime":57.78,"endTime":58.679,"body":"I feel like --."},{"startTime":58.68,"endTime":60.239,"body":"Why is it that we only hang out"},{"startTime":60.24,"endTime":61.229,"body":"during these podcasts?"},{"startTime":61.23,"endTime":62.189,"body":"What's going on here, Paul?"},{"startTime":62.19,"endTime":62.894,"body":"What's going on?"},{"startTime":62.895,"endTime":63.895,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":64.769,"endTime":66.329,"body":"probably the biggest reason is you"},{"startTime":66.33,"endTime":67.649,"body":"live in one side of the country and"},{"startTime":67.65,"endTime":69.238,"body":"I live on the other."},{"startTime":69.239,"endTime":69.906,"body":"Oh. yeah, yeah. Okay. I'll give you a"},{"startTime":69.239,"endTime":69.906,"body":"pass on that."},{"startTime":69.907,"endTime":70.907,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":72.12,"endTime":73.829,"body":"Thank you. I do appreciate you"},{"startTime":73.83,"endTime":74.629,"body":"leaning in so well."},{"startTime":74.63,"endTime":76.979,"body":"Michael, I thought our podcast"},{"startTime":76.98,"endTime":78.719,"body":"was going viral a couple of weeks"},{"startTime":78.72,"endTime":80.669,"body":"ago, only to find"},{"startTime":80.67,"endTime":82.529,"body":"out that I think"},{"startTime":82.53,"endTime":84.246,"body":"either one person was super eager,"},{"startTime":84.247,"endTime":85.709,"body":"or a couple of people were super"},{"startTime":85.71,"endTime":87.659,"body":"eager and downloaded every"},{"startTime":87.66,"endTime":89.939,"body":"single one of our episodes."},{"startTime":89.94,"endTime":92.129,"body":"Or it was a bot."},{"startTime":92.13,"endTime":93.749,"body":"But either way, we're grateful for"},{"startTime":93.75,"endTime":95.669,"body":"the stats. So thank you to the bot"},{"startTime":95.67,"endTime":96.989,"body":"or the person."},{"startTime":96.99,"endTime":99.209,"body":"Appreciate you leaning in."},{"startTime":99.21,"endTime":101.099,"body":"So today we are talking about"},{"startTime":101.1,"endTime":103.169,"body":"Objection Number Seven, which"},{"startTime":103.17,"endTime":105.449,"body":"is it's too"},{"startTime":105.45,"endTime":107.309,"body":"risky, the work is too"},{"startTime":107.31,"endTime":109.379,"body":"hard, and it's risky"},{"startTime":109.38,"endTime":111.029,"body":"to be involved in church"},{"startTime":111.03,"endTime":112.859,"body":"multiplication. And to"},{"startTime":112.86,"endTime":115.169,"body":"solve all of our problems, folks,"},{"startTime":115.17,"endTime":116.85,"body":"we have a great guest today."},{"startTime":116.851,"endTime":117.851,"body":"John"},{"startTime":118.77,"endTime":121.079,"body":"Albiston from Edmonton"},{"startTime":121.08,"endTime":122.999,"body":"area and"},{"startTime":123.0,"endTime":124.829,"body":"he works at the district office"},{"startTime":124.83,"endTime":127.619,"body":"here. He's an effectiveness coach,"},{"startTime":127.62,"endTime":130.198,"body":"is on our Multiply Network lead team"},{"startTime":130.199,"endTime":132.119,"body":"and been a part of church"},{"startTime":132.12,"endTime":134.069,"body":"multiplication and planting and"},{"startTime":134.07,"endTime":136.289,"body":"multi sites and all sorts of things"},{"startTime":136.29,"endTime":138.359,"body":"in helping churches get turnaround."},{"startTime":138.36,"endTime":139.829,"body":"John, thanks for coming on and"},{"startTime":139.83,"endTime":141.719,"body":"helping us solve this problem."},{"startTime":141.72,"endTime":143.459,"body":"It's good to be here."},{"startTime":143.46,"endTime":144.989,"body":"It's good to have you."},{"startTime":144.99,"endTime":146.25,"body":"So let's jump in."},{"startTime":147.57,"endTime":149.819,"body":"What's the legitimate argument"},{"startTime":149.82,"endTime":151.709,"body":"for the work is"},{"startTime":151.71,"endTime":153.389,"body":"too hard. It's too risky to be"},{"startTime":153.39,"endTime":155.729,"body":"involved in church multiplication."},{"startTime":155.73,"endTime":156.839,"body":"John, what do you think?"},{"startTime":156.84,"endTime":158.579,"body":"What's the legitimacy here?"},{"startTime":158.58,"endTime":160.439,"body":"I'm sure you've heard this before."},{"startTime":160.44,"endTime":162.089,"body":"Where do you think it finds its"},{"startTime":162.09,"endTime":163.09,"body":"roots?"},{"startTime":164.24,"endTime":166.189,"body":"Well, I think there's a difference"},{"startTime":166.19,"endTime":168.109,"body":"between risk and"},{"startTime":168.11,"endTime":169.669,"body":"being risky."},{"startTime":169.67,"endTime":170.959,"body":"And I think it's important to"},{"startTime":170.96,"endTime":172.399,"body":"understand that."},{"startTime":172.4,"endTime":174.379,"body":"So pretty much every"},{"startTime":174.38,"endTime":176.959,"body":"day I put myself in"},{"startTime":176.96,"endTime":179.689,"body":"a several thousand pound metal box"},{"startTime":179.69,"endTime":181.609,"body":"and go flying down the road"},{"startTime":181.61,"endTime":184.399,"body":"at 110, 120 clicks."},{"startTime":184.4,"endTime":186.289,"body":"And there's risk in"},{"startTime":186.29,"endTime":187.729,"body":"doing that."},{"startTime":187.73,"endTime":188.869,"body":"There's risk in driving."},{"startTime":188.87,"endTime":190.699,"body":"I make one wrong move and I'm"},{"startTime":190.7,"endTime":192.079,"body":"dead. My family's dead."},{"startTime":192.08,"endTime":193.799,"body":"Other families are dead."},{"startTime":193.8,"endTime":195.289,"body":"Like, there's a significant amount"},{"startTime":195.29,"endTime":197.299,"body":"of risk in driving,"},{"startTime":197.3,"endTime":198.709,"body":"but that doesn't mean I have to be a"},{"startTime":198.71,"endTime":199.819,"body":"risky driver."},{"startTime":199.82,"endTime":199.82,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":199.821,"endTime":201.769,"body":"Those are two very,"},{"startTime":201.77,"endTime":203.359,"body":"very, very different things."},{"startTime":203.36,"endTime":205.309,"body":"There's things that I can do"},{"startTime":205.31,"endTime":207.139,"body":"to significantly"},{"startTime":207.14,"endTime":209.149,"body":"mitigate that risk."},{"startTime":209.15,"endTime":211.009,"body":"And the same thing with church"},{"startTime":211.01,"endTime":212.059,"body":"planting."},{"startTime":212.06,"endTime":213.979,"body":"Yeah, there's risk in church"},{"startTime":213.98,"endTime":215.899,"body":"planting, but that doesn't mean you"},{"startTime":215.9,"endTime":217.729,"body":"have to be a risky church planter."},{"startTime":217.73,"endTime":219.229,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"startTime":219.23,"endTime":220.159,"body":"Michael, what do you think?"},{"startTime":220.16,"endTime":221.899,"body":"Where's the legitimacy here?"},{"startTime":221.9,"endTime":224.419,"body":"Where does this find its roots?"},{"startTime":224.42,"endTime":226.399,"body":"Yeah. Well, we all have heard"},{"startTime":226.4,"endTime":227.689,"body":"stories."},{"startTime":227.69,"endTime":229.279,"body":"The successful stories, which has"},{"startTime":229.28,"endTime":230.779,"body":"been awesome, you know, of, This"},{"startTime":230.78,"endTime":231.739,"body":"happened and this happened."},{"startTime":231.74,"endTime":233.419,"body":"It was so easy. But then you also"},{"startTime":233.42,"endTime":235.173,"body":"hear the opposite end, where it's,"},{"startTime":235.174,"endTime":237.379,"body":"Oh yeah, it totally failed."},{"startTime":237.38,"endTime":239.509,"body":"And now my family,"},{"startTime":239.51,"endTime":240.799,"body":"you know, how do I provide for my"},{"startTime":240.8,"endTime":242.449,"body":"family? What do I do here?"},{"startTime":242.45,"endTime":244.279,"body":"And listen, like,"},{"startTime":244.28,"endTime":246.139,"body":"church planting and being involved"},{"startTime":246.14,"endTime":247.14,"body":"in church multiplication, it's"},{"startTime":247.97,"endTime":249.019,"body":"hard work."},{"startTime":249.02,"endTime":250.969,"body":"And there's a cost and there's"},{"startTime":250.97,"endTime":252.229,"body":"a sacrifice to it."},{"startTime":252.23,"endTime":253.729,"body":"And just like what John was saying,"},{"startTime":253.73,"endTime":255.859,"body":"there is that risk behind it."},{"startTime":255.86,"endTime":257.088,"body":"But of course, we know - and this"},{"startTime":257.089,"endTime":257.929,"body":"what we're gonna be talking about"},{"startTime":257.93,"endTime":259.669,"body":"today - that it's obviously going to"},{"startTime":259.67,"endTime":261.229,"body":"be worth it."},{"startTime":261.23,"endTime":263.419,"body":"And you know, I remember"},{"startTime":263.42,"endTime":265.279,"body":"one of -- a great"},{"startTime":265.28,"endTime":266.989,"body":"memory that I have of starting a"},{"startTime":266.99,"endTime":268.999,"body":"church is I remember I was pushing"},{"startTime":269.0,"endTime":270.0,"body":"a porta potty"},{"startTime":271.07,"endTime":272.659,"body":"down the road to an event that we"},{"startTime":272.66,"endTime":274.009,"body":"were doing. It got dropped off at"},{"startTime":274.01,"endTime":275.089,"body":"the wrong spot."},{"startTime":275.09,"endTime":276.439,"body":"And, you know, people are honking at"},{"startTime":276.44,"endTime":277.879,"body":"me driving by, this sort of thing."},{"startTime":277.88,"endTime":279.349,"body":"And I'm just thinking, Plant the"},{"startTime":279.35,"endTime":280.759,"body":"church, they said. This will be"},{"startTime":280.76,"endTime":281.76,"body":"great, they said. And,"},{"startTime":282.77,"endTime":284.209,"body":"you know, later on that afternoon, I"},{"startTime":284.21,"endTime":285.949,"body":"had to wear the Mario costume, you"},{"startTime":285.95,"endTime":287.839,"body":"know, in the middle of the summer."},{"startTime":287.84,"endTime":289.466,"body":"It's so hot. It's like, this is,"},{"startTime":289.467,"endTime":291.259,"body":"this is really hard work."},{"startTime":291.26,"endTime":292.939,"body":"And, you know, will people even come"},{"startTime":292.94,"endTime":294.499,"body":"to this event that we're trying to"},{"startTime":294.5,"endTime":296.489,"body":"run to show the kindness"},{"startTime":296.49,"endTime":298.639,"body":"of who God is to the community?"},{"startTime":298.64,"endTime":301.039,"body":"And like, it's, it's a risk."},{"startTime":301.04,"endTime":302.539,"body":"But I really like what you just said"},{"startTime":302.54,"endTime":304.939,"body":"there, John. It doesn't have to be"},{"startTime":304.94,"endTime":306.769,"body":"risky. And there's"},{"startTime":306.77,"endTime":308.689,"body":"a difference between risk"},{"startTime":308.69,"endTime":310.219,"body":"and riskiness. And, you know, I like"},{"startTime":310.22,"endTime":311.809,"body":"to think of it as there's almost"},{"startTime":311.81,"endTime":313.789,"body":"like a foolish risk where"},{"startTime":313.79,"endTime":315.169,"body":"it's, okay, this is just almost"},{"startTime":315.17,"endTime":316.729,"body":"incompetence. Why did you think that"},{"startTime":316.73,"endTime":318.529,"body":"would work? That was just like you"},{"startTime":318.53,"endTime":320.119,"body":"were so in the sky."},{"startTime":320.12,"endTime":321.139,"body":"Did you pray about that?"},{"startTime":321.14,"endTime":322.279,"body":"Like, why are you doing that?"},{"startTime":322.28,"endTime":324.379,"body":"Versus a healthy risk"},{"startTime":324.38,"endTime":325.969,"body":"where it's, Okay, Lord, you're"},{"startTime":325.97,"endTime":327.469,"body":"calling us to this."},{"startTime":327.47,"endTime":329.089,"body":"If this doesn't work out, we're in"},{"startTime":329.09,"endTime":330.739,"body":"big trouble, but God, we're trusting"},{"startTime":330.74,"endTime":332.569,"body":"you. So there's a big difference"},{"startTime":332.57,"endTime":334.609,"body":"there between that healthy risk"},{"startTime":334.61,"endTime":336.559,"body":"and foolish risk, which I'm"},{"startTime":336.56,"endTime":338.329,"body":"excited to talk about today."},{"startTime":338.33,"endTime":340.519,"body":"Yeah, I think some of"},{"startTime":340.52,"endTime":342.439,"body":"this argument pops"},{"startTime":342.44,"endTime":344.449,"body":"up when"},{"startTime":344.45,"endTime":347.329,"body":"the church planter or the church"},{"startTime":347.33,"endTime":349.099,"body":"feels like they have an unusual"},{"startTime":349.1,"endTime":351.709,"body":"amount of ownership for it."},{"startTime":351.71,"endTime":353.839,"body":"And not understanding that it's God"},{"startTime":353.84,"endTime":355.25,"body":"who's actually the one"},{"startTime":356.9,"endTime":358.832,"body":"who's taking the risk -"},{"startTime":358.833,"endTime":360.049,"body":"because it's His church."},{"startTime":360.05,"endTime":360.949,"body":"We're obedient."},{"startTime":360.95,"endTime":362.869,"body":"And so when I hear people"},{"startTime":362.87,"endTime":364.579,"body":"say it's too risky, I'm like, for"},{"startTime":364.58,"endTime":365.58,"body":"who?"},{"startTime":366.45,"endTime":368.339,"body":"If God-- if God's asking you"},{"startTime":368.34,"endTime":370.409,"body":"to do it, then"},{"startTime":370.41,"endTime":373.169,"body":"who is it actually risky for?"},{"startTime":373.17,"endTime":374.429,"body":"Have you--?"},{"startTime":374.43,"endTime":376.139,"body":"Maybe the risk is did you hear from"},{"startTime":376.14,"endTime":378.029,"body":"God? And I guess that could"},{"startTime":378.03,"endTime":378.809,"body":"be part of it."},{"startTime":378.81,"endTime":380.699,"body":"It's like, well, we want to be good"},{"startTime":380.7,"endTime":381.73,"body":"stewards and"},{"startTime":382.8,"endTime":384.159,"body":"don't want to mess it up."},{"startTime":384.16,"endTime":386.039,"body":"And I understand all those things."},{"startTime":386.04,"endTime":387.989,"body":"But I have found that people who"},{"startTime":387.99,"endTime":390.119,"body":"get worked up about"},{"startTime":390.12,"endTime":392.099,"body":"the risk factor, or the amount"},{"startTime":392.1,"endTime":394.439,"body":"of hard work it takes, they've heard"},{"startTime":394.44,"endTime":395.871,"body":"too many negative stories -- which,"},{"startTime":397.59,"endTime":398.789,"body":"maybe that's our fault as"},{"startTime":398.79,"endTime":400.949,"body":"organizational leaders sometimes,"},{"startTime":400.95,"endTime":403.289,"body":"where we don't share enough positive"},{"startTime":403.29,"endTime":405.299,"body":"stories -- or they're taking"},{"startTime":405.3,"endTime":406.341,"body":"too much ownership in it."},{"startTime":406.342,"endTime":408.389,"body":"And it's becomes risky"},{"startTime":408.39,"endTime":410.279,"body":"because now, if you own"},{"startTime":410.28,"endTime":412.169,"body":"it, then you get the success"},{"startTime":412.17,"endTime":413.219,"body":"for when it goes."},{"startTime":413.22,"endTime":414.539,"body":"But then you also have to own the"},{"startTime":414.54,"endTime":416.399,"body":"failure when it doesn't"},{"startTime":416.4,"endTime":418.319,"body":"go. And so I just think"},{"startTime":418.32,"endTime":420.629,"body":"that this shows up sometimes"},{"startTime":420.63,"endTime":422.669,"body":"- if we check our motives and"},{"startTime":422.67,"endTime":424.619,"body":"we're using this as an argument"},{"startTime":424.62,"endTime":425.62,"body":"not to plant - we"},{"startTime":426.57,"endTime":428.729,"body":"have to ask ourselves, are we taking"},{"startTime":428.73,"endTime":430.799,"body":"too much ownership in this?"},{"startTime":430.8,"endTime":432.899,"body":"And can we just again,"},{"startTime":432.9,"endTime":435.659,"body":"just push this towards obedience"},{"startTime":435.66,"endTime":437.549,"body":"as opposed to making"},{"startTime":437.55,"endTime":439.559,"body":"some sort of risk or"},{"startTime":439.56,"endTime":441.899,"body":"risky endeavor?"},{"startTime":441.9,"endTime":443.939,"body":"And so, you know, as we talk about"},{"startTime":443.94,"endTime":445.439,"body":"this now - and I think we talked"},{"startTime":445.44,"endTime":446.44,"body":"about a little bit already - where"},{"startTime":447.15,"endTime":449.829,"body":"does this not hold water now?"},{"startTime":449.83,"endTime":451.171,"body":"Like where does this not like, Okay"},{"startTime":451.172,"endTime":453.099,"body":"-- You know, I shared"},{"startTime":453.1,"endTime":454.269,"body":"a few things about, you know,"},{"startTime":454.27,"endTime":455.829,"body":"ownership. John, where do you think"},{"startTime":455.83,"endTime":457.479,"body":"this breaks down?"},{"startTime":457.48,"endTime":459.399,"body":"Like that"},{"startTime":459.4,"endTime":460.69,"body":"may be your argument, but it"},{"startTime":461.8,"endTime":463.179,"body":"doesn't hold up."},{"startTime":463.18,"endTime":465.159,"body":"Well, there's definitely, like,"},{"startTime":465.16,"endTime":467.209,"body":"ways to plant"},{"startTime":467.21,"endTime":468.519,"body":"a church where you're greatly"},{"startTime":468.52,"endTime":469.66,"body":"reducing that risk."},{"startTime":471.25,"endTime":473.079,"body":"When I look at a risky"},{"startTime":473.08,"endTime":474.969,"body":"driver, what I'm"},{"startTime":474.97,"endTime":476.709,"body":"looking at is someone who didn't"},{"startTime":476.71,"endTime":479.589,"body":"take things very seriously"},{"startTime":479.59,"endTime":481.779,"body":"and weren't"},{"startTime":481.78,"endTime":483.609,"body":"very sober minded or sometimes"},{"startTime":483.61,"endTime":485.439,"body":"not even literally sober."},{"startTime":485.44,"endTime":487.569,"body":"And that's why they're risky driver."},{"startTime":487.57,"endTime":488.859,"body":"And the same thing with a church"},{"startTime":488.86,"endTime":490.839,"body":"plant is,"},{"startTime":490.84,"endTime":492.909,"body":"quite frankly, there"},{"startTime":492.91,"endTime":494.379,"body":"is a significant amount of"},{"startTime":494.38,"endTime":495.699,"body":"responsibility and we have to be"},{"startTime":495.7,"endTime":496.899,"body":"sober minded about it."},{"startTime":496.9,"endTime":497.9,"body":"And"},{"startTime":498.85,"endTime":501.039,"body":"when we look at, Do I have"},{"startTime":501.04,"endTime":502.989,"body":"a team, Do I have the calling, Do"},{"startTime":502.99,"endTime":504.999,"body":"I have the skills in order"},{"startTime":505.0,"endTime":506.199,"body":"to do that? Well, those are good"},{"startTime":506.2,"endTime":507.399,"body":"questions to ask."},{"startTime":508.54,"endTime":510.369,"body":"Sometimes I think that questions"},{"startTime":510.37,"endTime":513.038,"body":"of risk are ultimately"},{"startTime":513.039,"endTime":515.168,"body":"questions of fear."},{"startTime":515.169,"endTime":517.629,"body":"And there are two"},{"startTime":517.63,"endTime":519.489,"body":"unhealthy responses to fear"},{"startTime":519.49,"endTime":521.079,"body":"that I see in church planting."},{"speaker":"One is","startTime":521.08,"endTime":523.269,"body":"that's scary"},{"speaker":"One is","startTime":523.27,"endTime":525.069,"body":"so I'm going to run away."},{"speaker":"One is","startTime":525.07,"endTime":526.569,"body":"That's not a healthy response to"},{"speaker":"One is","startTime":526.57,"endTime":527.949,"body":"fear."},{"speaker":"One is","startTime":527.95,"endTime":530.289,"body":"The other, and I see this too,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":530.29,"endTime":532.209,"body":"that's scary so I'm going to"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":532.21,"endTime":533.21,"body":"ignore it."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":535.29,"endTime":537.359,"body":"And so I see people going off"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":537.36,"endTime":538.769,"body":"to try to plant the church half"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":538.77,"endTime":540.869,"body":"cocked, and that's a risky church"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":540.87,"endTime":542.039,"body":"plant."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":542.04,"endTime":543.329,"body":"That you haven't actually thought"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":543.33,"endTime":545.459,"body":"through things very much."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":545.46,"endTime":546.599,"body":"You haven't made a lot of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":546.6,"endTime":548.189,"body":"preparation."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":548.19,"endTime":550.32,"body":"And now that's a risky plant."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":551.52,"endTime":553.319,"body":"I think the best way of dealing with"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":553.32,"endTime":556.199,"body":"the fear is to go through the fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":556.2,"endTime":558.209,"body":"And what I mean by that is if"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":558.21,"endTime":560.039,"body":"I'm a planter and, well,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":560.04,"endTime":561.959,"body":"I'm afraid that"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":561.96,"endTime":562.96,"body":"nobody's going to come."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":563.88,"endTime":564.88,"body":"Okay, let's"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":566.62,"endTime":568.059,"body":"go through that fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":568.06,"endTime":569.589,"body":"Why are you afraid of that?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":569.59,"endTime":571.509,"body":"Well, like, I haven't done things"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":571.51,"endTime":572.709,"body":"in the past that have really"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":572.71,"endTime":574.269,"body":"attracted crowds before."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":574.27,"endTime":576.189,"body":"Okay, is there somebody out"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":576.19,"endTime":577.509,"body":"there who might know something that"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":577.51,"endTime":579.849,"body":"I don't who's good at this?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":579.85,"endTime":581.289,"body":"Because now that I've identified,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":581.29,"endTime":582.699,"body":"I'm not sure if I know how to get"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":582.7,"endTime":584.109,"body":"somebody to come. Well, now I know"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":584.11,"endTime":586.089,"body":"that there's a specific skill I need"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":586.09,"endTime":587.169,"body":"to acquire."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":587.17,"endTime":589.149,"body":"There's specific partnerships I need"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":589.15,"endTime":591.369,"body":"to make, the specific coaches"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":591.37,"endTime":593.139,"body":"I need to connect with to help me"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":593.14,"endTime":594.339,"body":"with that fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":594.34,"endTime":595.749,"body":"If my fear is, Well, you know what?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":595.75,"endTime":597.159,"body":"I don't know if I can lead a"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":597.16,"endTime":599.049,"body":"stranger to Christ."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":599.05,"endTime":600.639,"body":"Okay. Don't ignore that fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":600.64,"endTime":601.64,"body":"That's important."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":602.59,"endTime":604.539,"body":"That also is a skill set."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":604.54,"endTime":606.429,"body":"Well, if you're not sure,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":606.43,"endTime":607.839,"body":"is there any way you can gain that"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":607.84,"endTime":609.159,"body":"skill set? Are there coaches?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":609.16,"endTime":611.049,"body":"Are there people that I can talk to"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":611.05,"endTime":612.789,"body":"who can teach me how to lead a"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":612.79,"endTime":614.499,"body":"stranger to Christ?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":614.5,"endTime":615.849,"body":"You know, I'm not sure if we're"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":615.85,"endTime":616.929,"body":"going to have enough money."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":616.93,"endTime":618.669,"body":"Okay. Don't ignore that fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":618.67,"endTime":619.779,"body":"Go through that fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":619.78,"endTime":621.159,"body":"Is there somebody I can talk to who"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":621.16,"endTime":622.869,"body":"can help me with the financing?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":622.87,"endTime":624.789,"body":"But that is the healthy way"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":624.79,"endTime":626.679,"body":"of dealing with with fear"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":626.68,"endTime":628.329,"body":"is to go through the fear and face"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":628.33,"endTime":629.139,"body":"the fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":629.14,"endTime":630.969,"body":"The cocky,  'I don't need to listen"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":630.97,"endTime":632.069,"body":"to anybody church plants'."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":632.07,"endTime":633.669,"body":"Right. That's not courage."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":633.67,"endTime":635.379,"body":"That's avoidance."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":635.38,"endTime":636.609,"body":"And that's not the healthy way of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":636.61,"endTime":637.869,"body":"dealing with things."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":637.87,"endTime":639.909,"body":"John, I think you make a good point"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":639.91,"endTime":643.269,"body":"regarding risk and responsibility."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":643.27,"endTime":645.819,"body":"Where there's a responsibility"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":645.82,"endTime":647.229,"body":"and that's where it might feel"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":647.23,"endTime":648.459,"body":"risky."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":648.46,"endTime":650.379,"body":"And I thought that was a really good"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":650.38,"endTime":651.999,"body":"way to describe that, because I do"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":652.0,"endTime":653.949,"body":"think the responsibility can feel"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":653.95,"endTime":655.809,"body":"overwhelming, the responsibility can"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":655.81,"endTime":657.789,"body":"feel challenging"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":657.79,"endTime":658.79,"body":"and risky."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":659.83,"endTime":661.689,"body":"But really, you can't"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":661.69,"endTime":663.699,"body":"avoid responsibility"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":663.7,"endTime":664.989,"body":"if you're launching out in this."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":664.99,"endTime":666.189,"body":"There's going to be some"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":666.19,"endTime":668.409,"body":"responsibility that you have and"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":668.41,"endTime":669.309,"body":"it's going to create some fear,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":669.31,"endTime":670.749,"body":"potentially. Love your thoughts"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":670.75,"endTime":672.729,"body":"around fear. Michael, your thoughts?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":672.73,"endTime":675.189,"body":"Where do you think this objection"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":675.19,"endTime":676.899,"body":"isn't going to really stand the test"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":676.9,"endTime":677.649,"body":"of time?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":677.65,"endTime":679.689,"body":"Yeah, and the reason"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":679.69,"endTime":681.579,"body":"why we're bringing it up today"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":681.58,"endTime":683.139,"body":"is because I think just as as"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":683.14,"endTime":685.719,"body":"humans, there's this natural"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":685.72,"endTime":687.699,"body":"tendency to think, no,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":687.7,"endTime":688.689,"body":"this could go wrong."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":688.69,"endTime":690.049,"body":"This could go wrong, this could go"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":690.05,"endTime":690.849,"body":"wrong."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":690.85,"endTime":693.069,"body":"I remember hearing a story."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":693.07,"endTime":694.899,"body":"This was before I planted a church"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":694.9,"endTime":696.819,"body":"where I think it was"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":696.82,"endTime":697.629,"body":"somewhere in the States."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":697.63,"endTime":699.759,"body":"But there was 200 people on opening"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":699.76,"endTime":701.439,"body":"Sunday, you know. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":701.44,"endTime":703.119,"body":"this is --. They left, these two"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":703.12,"endTime":705.129,"body":"church planters left on"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":705.13,"endTime":706.239,"body":"top of the world. Wow."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":706.24,"endTime":708.309,"body":"200 people believe in our"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":708.31,"endTime":710.109,"body":"in our vision of what God's doing in"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":710.11,"endTime":712.119,"body":"this community. This is so exciting."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":712.12,"endTime":713.319,"body":"This is great."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":713.32,"endTime":715.419,"body":"And then the next week, they"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":715.42,"endTime":716.889,"body":"come back. They they do it all over"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":716.89,"endTime":718.299,"body":"again for the next Sunday."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":718.3,"endTime":720.429,"body":"And there were 35 people"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":720.43,"endTime":721.43,"body":"that showed up, and there's"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":722.44,"endTime":724.389,"body":"over 200 chairs set"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":724.39,"endTime":725.979,"body":"up for this congregation."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":725.98,"endTime":727.329,"body":"And I was just hearing their story"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":727.33,"endTime":728.709,"body":"about how they were just so"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":728.71,"endTime":730.625,"body":"discouraged of, Oh,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":730.626,"endTime":732.459,"body":"God, I thought you were doing this,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":732.46,"endTime":734.019,"body":"but I guess you're not doing this"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":734.02,"endTime":735.399,"body":"and this sort of thing."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":735.4,"endTime":736.525,"body":"And I guess it was"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":737.92,"endTime":739.599,"body":"more of their friends and family and"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":739.6,"endTime":741.129,"body":"well-wishers that came, or people"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":741.13,"endTime":742.989,"body":"from other churches that were trying"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":742.99,"endTime":743.889,"body":"to show that support."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":743.89,"endTime":745.959,"body":"So I've got this story in the back"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":745.96,"endTime":748.029,"body":"of my mind as we're"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":748.03,"endTime":750.039,"body":"now starting this"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":750.04,"endTime":751.629,"body":"church and in Binbrook."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":751.63,"endTime":752.679,"body":"And I went through the same thing"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":752.68,"endTime":754.239,"body":"when we started in Dundas."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":754.24,"endTime":756.429,"body":"And I think anyone that's"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":756.43,"endTime":758.589,"body":"has planted a church kind of relates"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":758.59,"endTime":759.699,"body":"with this, or anyone that is in the"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":759.7,"endTime":761.199,"body":"process of planting the church"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":761.2,"endTime":762.879,"body":"relates with that feeling of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":762.88,"endTime":765.279,"body":"absolute terror of, Okay,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":765.28,"endTime":767.139,"body":"I've moved my family,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":767.14,"endTime":768.309,"body":"I've quit my job."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":768.31,"endTime":770.019,"body":"I've kind of put it all on the line"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":770.02,"endTime":770.829,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":770.83,"endTime":772.869,"body":"But is this actually,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":772.87,"endTime":774.637,"body":"is this actually going to work?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":774.638,"endTime":776.829,"body":"And I"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":776.83,"endTime":778.689,"body":"really like what John"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":778.69,"endTime":780.849,"body":"said there, that we push through"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":780.85,"endTime":782.619,"body":"the fear. We don't run from it."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":782.62,"endTime":783.909,"body":"We don't avoid it."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":783.91,"endTime":785.229,"body":"You know what? This is actually a"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":785.23,"endTime":786.939,"body":"part of walking as a disciple of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":786.94,"endTime":789.339,"body":"Jesus. He's asking us to do things"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":789.34,"endTime":791.379,"body":"that sometimes are terrifying."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":791.38,"endTime":793.299,"body":"He asks us to do things sometimes"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":793.3,"endTime":794.478,"body":"that take that trust, and"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":795.73,"endTime":797.539,"body":"just that level of faith that we"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":797.54,"endTime":798.759,"body":"haven't been to before."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":798.76,"endTime":800.619,"body":"We haven't had to show this level of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":800.62,"endTime":802.689,"body":"faith yet in certain ways."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":802.69,"endTime":804.219,"body":"And I think that's just part of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":804.22,"endTime":806.019,"body":"being a disciple and especially"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":806.02,"endTime":807.849,"body":"being a leader in God's kingdom."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":807.85,"endTime":809.019,"body":"You know, how how are we going to"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":809.02,"endTime":810.849,"body":"call others to take risks if"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":810.85,"endTime":813.399,"body":"we ourself aren't taking that risk?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":813.4,"endTime":815.619,"body":"And, oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":815.62,"endTime":817.269,"body":"still stressed over thinking of that"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":817.27,"endTime":819.459,"body":"first day, of kinda how scary"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":819.46,"endTime":821.019,"body":"it was. But it's--."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":821.02,"endTime":822.849,"body":"I love that. You push through"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":822.85,"endTime":823.809,"body":"the fear."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":823.81,"endTime":825.139,"body":"It's yeah, it's --."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":825.14,"endTime":826.719,"body":"Let's acknowledge there's going to"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":826.72,"endTime":827.829,"body":"be some fear here. There's going to"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":827.83,"endTime":829.359,"body":"be some risk here."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":829.36,"endTime":830.799,"body":"It's going to be hard work."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":830.8,"endTime":832.509,"body":"But you push through it knowing who"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":832.51,"endTime":834.459,"body":"God is, knowing that if God's"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":834.46,"endTime":836.499,"body":"called us to it, it's okay"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":836.5,"endTime":838.389,"body":"if 200 people come,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":838.39,"endTime":840.489,"body":"it's okay if 35 people come."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":840.49,"endTime":841.49,"body":"It's actually okay."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":842.8,"endTime":845.109,"body":"Right. And I think it's--."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":845.11,"endTime":846.009,"body":"We were talking about this earlier,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":846.01,"endTime":847.869,"body":"but I think almost we need"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":847.87,"endTime":849.434,"body":"to redefine what success"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":850.81,"endTime":852.309,"body":"is. Success isn't whether people"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":852.31,"endTime":854.169,"body":"come on a Sunday morning or not."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":854.17,"endTime":855.159,"body":"It's not."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":855.16,"endTime":856.869,"body":"It's not, oh, how many chairs did"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":856.87,"endTime":857.87,"body":"you have to set up?"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":859.36,"endTime":860.259,"body":"Success is, Okay, God, if you've"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":860.26,"endTime":861.519,"body":"asked me to do it."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":861.52,"endTime":863.019,"body":"Okay, I'll do that."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":863.02,"endTime":864.129,"body":"And I love what you were saying"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":864.13,"endTime":865.929,"body":"earlier,Paul, is the risk actually"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":865.93,"endTime":867.519,"body":"isn't mine to carry."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":867.52,"endTime":868.899,"body":"And I actually don't need to stress"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":868.9,"endTime":870.699,"body":"over whether people come or not"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":870.7,"endTime":872.199,"body":"because I've done the work."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":872.2,"endTime":874.089,"body":"I've gone through the process."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":874.09,"endTime":875.319,"body":"I follow, as you said, God, I'm"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":875.32,"endTime":877.419,"body":"being obedient. So whatever happens,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":877.42,"endTime":878.499,"body":"it's actually okay."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":878.5,"endTime":880.399,"body":"It's actually success no matter"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":880.4,"endTime":881.229,"body":"where we land."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":881.23,"endTime":883.179,"body":"Narratives around this"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":883.18,"endTime":885.489,"body":"argument objection"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":885.49,"endTime":887.529,"body":"actually are the fuel for"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":887.53,"endTime":888.53,"body":"it, I would say. Because"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":889.45,"endTime":890.45,"body":"the negative"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":891.73,"endTime":894.369,"body":"stories are like, Whoa,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":894.37,"endTime":896.439,"body":"that was a lot of risk."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":896.44,"endTime":899.139,"body":"But then also the positive ones,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":899.14,"endTime":901.629,"body":"the rags to riches stories"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":901.63,"endTime":903.039,"body":"on church planting, I don't think"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":903.04,"endTime":904.629,"body":"help us either."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":904.63,"endTime":905.979,"body":"And those are the ones that get"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":905.98,"endTime":907.899,"body":"staged. And they say,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":907.9,"endTime":909.879,"body":"we could never be like them."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":909.88,"endTime":911.649,"body":"We started in a garage with three"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":911.65,"endTime":912.65,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":913.6,"endTime":915.339,"body":"I heard of one recently where they"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":915.34,"endTime":917.769,"body":"literally started in like a working"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":917.77,"endTime":918.729,"body":"barn."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":918.73,"endTime":919.989,"body":"They couldn't find any other"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":919.99,"endTime":920.949,"body":"location."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":920.95,"endTime":922.119,"body":"And now they're a church of"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":922.12,"endTime":923.949,"body":"thousands of people in several"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":923.95,"endTime":925.239,"body":"locations."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":925.24,"endTime":927.489,"body":"Or I heard another one."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":927.49,"endTime":929.144,"body":"They moved -- You talked about moved"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":929.145,"endTime":931.119,"body":"-- with just a few"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":931.12,"endTime":933.159,"body":"couples to a neighborhood that had"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":933.16,"endTime":935.049,"body":"no church. And they, you know,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":935.05,"endTime":936.729,"body":"maxed out their credit cards for a"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":936.73,"endTime":937.509,"body":"sound system."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":937.51,"endTime":938.773,"body":"And if God didn't show up --."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":938.774,"endTime":940.539,"body":"And you're sitting there going,"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":940.54,"endTime":942.399,"body":"whoa, how could I ever"},{"speaker":"is","startTime":942.4,"endTime":944.969,"body":"be like them? That is crazy."},{"speaker":"is","startTime":944.97,"endTime":946.979,"body":"And you never hear the stories"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":946.98,"endTime":948.959,"body":"we got"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":948.96,"endTime":949.96,"body":"an assessment. We"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":950.82,"endTime":953.099,"body":"got trained. We developed"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":953.1,"endTime":955.769,"body":"a launch plan and a launch team."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":955.77,"endTime":957.479,"body":"We raised money."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":957.48,"endTime":959.549,"body":"Had organizational partnership."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":959.55,"endTime":960.805,"body":"We have ongoing coaching."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":960.806,"endTime":962.639,"body":"And we have"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":962.64,"endTime":964.619,"body":"seen two or 3 or 4 churches"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":964.62,"endTime":965.939,"body":"start as a result."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":965.94,"endTime":967.799,"body":"And we keep repeat--. Because"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":967.8,"endTime":970.079,"body":"it's not as glamorous."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":970.08,"endTime":972.119,"body":"And so I think part"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":972.12,"endTime":973.319,"body":"of it is we need to tell those"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":973.32,"endTime":975.719,"body":"stories of just, like,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":975.72,"endTime":976.799,"body":"everyday"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":977.94,"endTime":978.959,"body":"people who went through the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":978.96,"endTime":981.269,"body":"processes, did the right things."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":981.27,"endTime":983.279,"body":"Because when I first"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":983.28,"endTime":984.899,"body":"heard of church planting, I heard of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":984.9,"endTime":985.9,"body":"all the closures. One"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":986.76,"endTime":988.889,"body":"in every three closures, or"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":988.89,"endTime":990.719,"body":"eight out of ten churches"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":990.72,"endTime":991.799,"body":"that start close."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":991.8,"endTime":993.359,"body":"Let me share some stats with you"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":993.36,"endTime":995.249,"body":"from our Pentecostal"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":995.25,"endTime":997.079,"body":"Assemblies of Canada"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":997.08,"endTime":999.569,"body":"Fellowship from 2010 to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":999.57,"endTime":1000.57,"body":"2020. That"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1001.49,"endTime":1003.859,"body":"88% of the self-governing"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1003.86,"endTime":1006.289,"body":"churches we started in that decade"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1006.29,"endTime":1008.779,"body":"were still around December 31st,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1008.78,"endTime":1010.699,"body":"2019, and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1010.7,"endTime":1013.009,"body":"90% of the closures"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1013.01,"endTime":1014.929,"body":"of our churches in that ten year"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1014.93,"endTime":1016.759,"body":"period were ten years or"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1016.76,"endTime":1017.719,"body":"older."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1017.72,"endTime":1019.819,"body":"I think -- I think"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1019.82,"endTime":1021.919,"body":"we've figured out a way to do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1021.92,"endTime":1023.869,"body":"sustainable church"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1023.87,"endTime":1024.979,"body":"planting."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1024.98,"endTime":1026.809,"body":"And I hear this right across the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1026.81,"endTime":1028.729,"body":"board. You know, John, we go"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1028.73,"endTime":1030.649,"body":"to different conferences"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1030.65,"endTime":1032.749,"body":"and we hear that the success"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1032.75,"endTime":1033.649,"body":"is happening."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1033.65,"endTime":1035.449,"body":"And this idea of like, you can"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1035.45,"endTime":1037.338,"body":"actually mitigate the risk with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1037.339,"endTime":1039.469,"body":"good planning, good steps of faith,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1039.47,"endTime":1041.568,"body":"good fundraising, good coaching,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1041.569,"endTime":1042.886,"body":"training, assessment, all of it."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1042.887,"endTime":1044.838,"body":"And you can"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1044.839,"endTime":1047.088,"body":"see success."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1047.089,"endTime":1048.979,"body":"So, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1048.98,"endTime":1049.98,"body":"I don't know --. I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1051.38,"endTime":1053.359,"body":"can understand hearing the negative"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1053.36,"endTime":1054.829,"body":"stories, hearing the positive"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1054.83,"endTime":1056.659,"body":"stories, how it could bring some"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1056.66,"endTime":1058.879,"body":"tension and maybe fear"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1058.88,"endTime":1060.109,"body":"into us."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1060.11,"endTime":1062.089,"body":"But when when I look at these stats"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1062.09,"endTime":1063.589,"body":"I get encouraged and go, no, no, I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1063.59,"endTime":1065.449,"body":"the both the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1065.45,"endTime":1067.249,"body":"positive and the negative stories--"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1067.25,"endTime":1068.629,"body":"okay, great."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1068.63,"endTime":1070.039,"body":"They're great stories, the positive"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1070.04,"endTime":1071.989,"body":"ones. Negative ones are sober"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1071.99,"endTime":1073.879,"body":"reminders. But the mass"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1073.88,"endTime":1075.709,"body":"majority of people in the middle"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1075.71,"endTime":1077.509,"body":"are just like you did, Michael."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1077.51,"endTime":1079.159,"body":"You went through the process, you"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1079.16,"endTime":1081.079,"body":"planted, you grew the church,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1081.08,"endTime":1082.489,"body":"you grew your team."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1082.49,"endTime":1084.559,"body":"Like any comments, Michael, on that?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1084.56,"endTime":1086.149,"body":"Yeah. You know what that, what you"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1087.079,"body":"just said, reminds me of."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1087.08,"endTime":1088.789,"body":"I remember hearing a story of Ed"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1088.79,"endTime":1090.649,"body":"Stetzer, who has written"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1090.65,"endTime":1091.489,"body":"a couple of books on church"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1091.49,"endTime":1092.629,"body":"planting. He's planted a couple of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1092.63,"endTime":1094.009,"body":"churches sort of thing."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1094.01,"endTime":1095.719,"body":"He was at a conference once with two"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1095.72,"endTime":1097.249,"body":"other church planters, so there's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1097.25,"endTime":1099.259,"body":"three church planters on stage."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1099.26,"endTime":1101.629,"body":"And yeah, the one was a megachurch"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1101.63,"endTime":1103.224,"body":"and we started from nothing and look"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1103.225,"endTime":1105.069,"body":"- 5000 people."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1105.07,"endTime":1106.369,"body":"And then the other one is that, yeah,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1106.37,"endTime":1108.559,"body":"we started, we put our house"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1108.56,"endTime":1110.779,"body":"-- we remortgaged our house"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1110.78,"endTime":1112.849,"body":"and now there's 10,000 people."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1112.85,"endTime":1114.769,"body":"And then I got to Ed's part"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1114.77,"endTime":1116.689,"body":"and he said he just really"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1116.69,"endTime":1118.669,"body":"felt for the average church"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1118.67,"endTime":1120.499,"body":"planter in the room that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1120.5,"endTime":1122.089,"body":"these stories, as incredible as"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1122.09,"endTime":1122.989,"body":"there are, they actually might be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1122.99,"endTime":1124.309,"body":"pretty discouraging."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1124.31,"endTime":1125.629,"body":"So he was like, I'm just going to be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1125.63,"endTime":1127.519,"body":"fully honest with what my story was."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1127.52,"endTime":1129.469,"body":"He said, yeah, we worked"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1129.47,"endTime":1130.819,"body":"with our denomination, went through"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1130.82,"endTime":1132.889,"body":"the process, and our"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1132.89,"endTime":1135.199,"body":"church plant's about 65,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1135.2,"endTime":1136.309,"body":"75 people."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1136.31,"endTime":1137.329,"body":"And you know what, though?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1137.33,"endTime":1139.279,"body":"We've been baptizing people and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1139.28,"endTime":1140.599,"body":"people have been moving in and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1140.6,"endTime":1142.219,"body":"looking for a church and there's new"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1142.22,"endTime":1143.329,"body":"disciples being made."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1143.33,"endTime":1144.949,"body":"And yeah, it's not a glamorous"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1144.95,"endTime":1146.539,"body":"story, but the Kingdom of God is"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1146.54,"endTime":1148.579,"body":"moving forward. And I just remember"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1148.58,"endTime":1150.469,"body":"listening to that and just like"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1150.47,"endTime":1151.849,"body":"they were almost like, this was this"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1151.85,"endTime":1152.779,"body":"weight."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1152.78,"endTime":1154.669,"body":"It was like, I don't"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1154.67,"endTime":1156.049,"body":"need to be at the megachurch."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1156.05,"endTime":1158.359,"body":"I don't need to be, you know,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1158.36,"endTime":1160.199,"body":"all these legendary pastors with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1160.2,"endTime":1161.179,"body":"the epic stories."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1161.18,"endTime":1163.519,"body":"Am I just being faithful"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1163.52,"endTime":1164.509,"body":"in what God's doing?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1164.51,"endTime":1165.769,"body":"Am I just trying to listen, God,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1165.77,"endTime":1166.699,"body":"what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1166.7,"endTime":1168.349,"body":"Okay, let me go do that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1168.35,"endTime":1170.149,"body":"Even if the numbers are not"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1170.15,"endTime":1171.769,"body":"thousands of people, even if it's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1171.77,"endTime":1173.573,"body":"just tens of people or dozens of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1173.574,"endTime":1175.369,"body":"people. You know, in some context"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1175.37,"endTime":1176.599,"body":"starting off, even just 1 or 2"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1176.6,"endTime":1177.769,"body":"people to start."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1177.77,"endTime":1178.609,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1178.61,"endTime":1180.709,"body":"Like, that's actually okay."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1180.71,"endTime":1181.819,"body":"And I don't think we talk about that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1181.82,"endTime":1182.809,"body":"enough."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1182.81,"endTime":1183.799,"body":"John, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1183.8,"endTime":1185.66,"body":"Like when you when you hear,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1186.74,"endTime":1187.939,"body":"you know, some of those rags to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1187.94,"endTime":1190.939,"body":"riches stories or the negative ones,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1190.94,"endTime":1192.829,"body":"what comes to your mind about"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1192.83,"endTime":1194.629,"body":"this narrative around church"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1194.63,"endTime":1196.219,"body":"multiplication being risky?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1196.22,"endTime":1198.019,"body":"Or you need to be risky for it to be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1198.02,"endTime":1199.339,"body":"successful?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1199.34,"endTime":1201.319,"body":"Well, I mean, you need to take risk."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1201.32,"endTime":1202.399,"body":"Like I don't think we need to be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1202.4,"endTime":1204.499,"body":"risky because that's being"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1204.5,"endTime":1206.269,"body":"irresponsible. And I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1206.27,"endTime":1207.139,"body":"-- when I think of some of the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1207.14,"endTime":1209.029,"body":"negative stories, the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1209.03,"endTime":1210.289,"body":"negative stories that I know of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1210.29,"endTime":1212.149,"body":"personally, where"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1212.15,"endTime":1213.709,"body":"things didn't work out is because"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1213.71,"endTime":1215.419,"body":"people were being risky."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1215.42,"endTime":1216.409,"body":"They weren't going through"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1216.41,"endTime":1218.869,"body":"assessment. They didn't have a plan."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1218.87,"endTime":1220.609,"body":"They weren't looking for coaching."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1220.61,"endTime":1221.509,"body":"And quite frankly, they weren't"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1221.51,"endTime":1222.979,"body":"teachable. Like, I mean, that's such"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1222.98,"endTime":1223.98,"body":"an important character thing--"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1224.359,"endTime":1225.353,"body":"Oh,my goodness."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1225.354,"endTime":1227.059,"body":"-- to develop as a church planter"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1227.06,"endTime":1228.739,"body":"and quite frankly, as a pastor, if"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1228.74,"endTime":1230.119,"body":"you're going to succeed as a pastor,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1230.12,"endTime":1231.979,"body":"a teachable heart. You know, these"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1231.98,"endTime":1233.599,"body":"cocky don't tell me what to do."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1233.6,"endTime":1235.009,"body":"I know what I'm going to do."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1235.01,"endTime":1236.599,"body":"Those are the ones who crash and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1236.6,"endTime":1237.409,"body":"burn."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1237.41,"endTime":1238.489,"body":"But, I mean, there's things we can"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1238.49,"endTime":1240.199,"body":"learn. I mean, when someone goes off"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1240.2,"endTime":1241.639,"body":"half cocked, I have no plan."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1241.64,"endTime":1242.949,"body":"I have no strategy."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1242.95,"endTime":1244.509,"body":"I have no coaching and I'm just"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1244.51,"endTime":1246.489,"body":"going to do things my way."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1246.49,"endTime":1247.869,"body":"Don't bother me with any of that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1247.87,"endTime":1249.249,"body":"And then they the crash and burn."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1249.25,"endTime":1251.079,"body":"Okay, pay attention to that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1251.08,"endTime":1253.449,"body":"Don't be like that guy."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1253.45,"endTime":1254.45,"body":"If you're going to plant a church,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1255.61,"endTime":1257.109,"body":"get coaching."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1257.11,"endTime":1259.419,"body":"Build a good team."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1259.42,"endTime":1260.769,"body":"Arrange good finance."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1260.77,"endTime":1262.539,"body":"I mean, there's things you can do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1262.54,"endTime":1264.909,"body":"that greatly, greatly,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1264.91,"endTime":1266.559,"body":"greatly improve your chances of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1266.56,"endTime":1267.369,"body":"success."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1267.37,"endTime":1269.559,"body":"Again, just like me driving"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1269.56,"endTime":1270.729,"body":"to the office."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1270.73,"endTime":1272.979,"body":"There's a lot of things that I do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1272.98,"endTime":1274.599,"body":"that greatly improve my chance of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1274.6,"endTime":1276.699,"body":"making it to the office alive."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1276.7,"endTime":1278.529,"body":"You know, Am I drunk or"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1278.53,"endTime":1280.179,"body":"high? No. Okay, well, that's one"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1280.18,"endTime":1282.039,"body":"step. Is my car falling"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1282.04,"endTime":1283.209,"body":"apart? Are my brake lights not"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1283.21,"endTime":1284.079,"body":"working?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1284.08,"endTime":1285.7,"body":"Well, making sure the car's in"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1285.701,"endTime":1287.829,"body":"working order. That's another step."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1287.83,"endTime":1289.055,"body":"Did I ever read the driver's manual?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1289.056,"endTime":1290.57,"body":"Do I know the rules of the road?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1290.571,"endTime":1292.539,"body":"Did I, you know, get a driver's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1292.54,"endTime":1293.54,"body":"license? Am"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1294.55,"endTime":1296.379,"body":"I distracted?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1296.38,"endTime":1297.759,"body":"I mean, there's so many things that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1297.76,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"I do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1299.62,"endTime":1301.659,"body":"that reduce the risk so"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1301.66,"endTime":1302.949,"body":"that, quite frankly, I can drive to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1302.95,"endTime":1304.209,"body":"the office safely. And we all do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1304.21,"endTime":1305.019,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1305.02,"endTime":1306.549,"body":"Church planting isn't that much"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1306.55,"endTime":1308.529,"body":"different. There are things that we"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1308.53,"endTime":1309.53,"body":"can do"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1311.17,"endTime":1313.599,"body":"to reduce that risk."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1313.6,"endTime":1315.759,"body":"Now, is God the one who's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1315.76,"endTime":1317.259,"body":"always powering things?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1317.26,"endTime":1318.789,"body":"Yes. So we should never take, you"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1318.79,"endTime":1319.599,"body":"know, credit."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1319.6,"endTime":1321.459,"body":"You know, as the Bible says,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1321.46,"endTime":1323.709,"body":"Paul planted Apollos watered,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1323.71,"endTime":1326.229,"body":"but God makes the seed grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1326.23,"endTime":1327.474,"body":"But that doesn't mean that Paul and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1327.475,"endTime":1329.439,"body":"Apollos, you know, just sat back"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1329.44,"endTime":1330.641,"body":"and did nothing and God just made"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1330.642,"endTime":1331.69,"body":"seeds grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1332.77,"endTime":1334.569,"body":"Every single farmer on the planet,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1334.57,"endTime":1335.889,"body":"there's like there's no farmer on"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1335.89,"endTime":1338.439,"body":"the planet who can make a seed grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1338.44,"endTime":1340.179,"body":"But it doesn't mean that the farmer"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1340.18,"endTime":1342.489,"body":"doesn't have a job to do,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1342.49,"endTime":1344.349,"body":"you know? And if the job is"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1344.35,"endTime":1346.45,"body":"--. If the farmer is diligent"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1347.68,"endTime":1349.419,"body":"and has thought through, Okay, I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1349.42,"endTime":1350.799,"body":"need to till the soil, I need to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1350.8,"endTime":1352.389,"body":"plant the seeds, I need to water the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1352.39,"endTime":1354.699,"body":"seeds, I need to pull the weeds."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1354.7,"endTime":1356.859,"body":"Boy, those seeds grow a lot more."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1356.86,"endTime":1358.569,"body":"And same thing as a pastor and as a"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1358.57,"endTime":1359.739,"body":"church planter."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1359.74,"endTime":1361.839,"body":"If we take care of our"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1361.84,"endTime":1363.669,"body":"responsibilities,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1363.67,"endTime":1365.439,"body":"God's going to come in and He's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1365.44,"endTime":1366.429,"body":"going to make the seeds grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1366.43,"endTime":1368.169,"body":"We can count on Him. Just like the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1368.17,"endTime":1369.999,"body":"farmer can count on God to make the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1370.0,"endTime":1370.779,"body":"seed grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1370.78,"endTime":1372.969,"body":"So long as the farmer does his part."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1372.97,"endTime":1374.859,"body":"We just have to do our part and not"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1374.86,"endTime":1376.599,"body":"go off half cocked."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1376.6,"endTime":1377.6,"body":"Yeah. No, that's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1379.21,"endTime":1380.499,"body":"good. Because one of the things I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1380.5,"endTime":1381.789,"body":"was going to ask and you kind of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1381.79,"endTime":1383.769,"body":"answered it is how do we mitigate"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1383.77,"endTime":1385.029,"body":"risk?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1385.03,"endTime":1386.499,"body":"And you know, some of the things I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1386.5,"endTime":1388.809,"body":"mentioned, you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1388.81,"endTime":1390.699,"body":"can help mitigate risk when churches"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1390.7,"endTime":1392.859,"body":"and leaders think about planting"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1392.86,"endTime":1393.86,"body":"and multiplying."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1395.29,"endTime":1396.744,"body":"But the risk is so -- I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1398.44,"endTime":1399.44,"body":"don't know how to phrase this -- but"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1400.51,"endTime":1401.739,"body":"the risk is, are we going to be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1401.74,"endTime":1402.759,"body":"successful or not?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1402.76,"endTime":1403.719,"body":"Isn't that it?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1403.72,"endTime":1405.549,"body":"Like, isn't that what the risk is"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1405.55,"endTime":1407.679,"body":"about? Like, the risk isn't"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1407.68,"endTime":1409.719,"body":"like, Oh, we started."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1409.72,"endTime":1411.849,"body":"The risk is, Did we start"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1411.85,"endTime":1414.099,"body":"and were we successful?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1414.1,"endTime":1415.449,"body":"And one of the things that I think"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1415.45,"endTime":1416.919,"body":"might help us get through this"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1416.92,"endTime":1419.289,"body":"objection is redefining"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1419.29,"endTime":1420.759,"body":"success."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1420.76,"endTime":1422.649,"body":"Michael, do you have any"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1422.65,"endTime":1424.179,"body":"thoughts about what we can do to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1424.18,"endTime":1425.949,"body":"maybe redefine success?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1425.95,"endTime":1427.419,"body":"Yeah, well, it's like we were"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1427.42,"endTime":1428.409,"body":"talking earlier, right?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1428.41,"endTime":1430.209,"body":"And we've probably talked about this"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1430.21,"endTime":1431.919,"body":"on previous podcasts and this sort"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1431.92,"endTime":1433.378,"body":"of thing. But what we need to do is"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1433.379,"endTime":1435.489,"body":"we need to be prophetic"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1435.49,"endTime":1437.649,"body":"leaders. We need to be people who"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1437.65,"endTime":1439.129,"body":"are listening to God's voice."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1439.13,"endTime":1440.349,"body":"Okay God, where are you actually"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1440.35,"endTime":1441.669,"body":"leading us to?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1441.67,"endTime":1442.959,"body":"And then we do it."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1442.96,"endTime":1444.699,"body":"And then, like we've been talking"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1444.7,"endTime":1446.349,"body":"about this whole episode, is that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1446.35,"endTime":1448.389,"body":"God takes ownership over"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1448.39,"endTime":1449.413,"body":"success. You know, and whatever"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1450.49,"endTime":1452.409,"body":"happens, it's actually okay"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1452.41,"endTime":1453.609,"body":"as long as we're following God's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1453.61,"endTime":1454.809,"body":"Spirit, as long as we're keeping in"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1454.81,"endTime":1456.039,"body":"step with God's Spirit."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1456.04,"endTime":1457.959,"body":"And, you know, I love the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1457.96,"endTime":1459.909,"body":"stories in Scripture"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1459.91,"endTime":1461.439,"body":"as the examples given to us."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1461.44,"endTime":1463.359,"body":"Like you've got Paul, who"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1463.36,"endTime":1464.919,"body":"would go from city to city, you"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1464.92,"endTime":1466.329,"body":"know, starting these churches with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1468.009,"body":"his friends and with his team and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1468.01,"endTime":1468.879,"body":"this sort of thing."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1468.88,"endTime":1470.829,"body":"But the one time he's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1470.83,"endTime":1472.689,"body":"stoned to death outside of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1472.69,"endTime":1474.609,"body":"the city and it's kind"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1474.61,"endTime":1475.542,"body":"of like, yeah, real successful,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1475.543,"endTime":1477.279,"body":"Paul. Great job."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1477.28,"endTime":1479.379,"body":"You're there bloody"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1479.38,"endTime":1481.119,"body":"and beaten up and broken."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1481.12,"endTime":1482.979,"body":"But I just love how even"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1482.98,"endTime":1484.359,"body":"through that, what does Paul do?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1484.36,"endTime":1486.309,"body":"He gets back up and goes"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1486.31,"endTime":1488.049,"body":"back to the city, you know, and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1488.05,"endTime":1489.399,"body":"encourages the church that's there"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1489.4,"endTime":1491.319,"body":"and encourages the leaders that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1491.32,"endTime":1493.179,"body":"are there. So success looks so"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1493.18,"endTime":1494.709,"body":"different for different people."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1494.71,"endTime":1496.359,"body":"The point is, are we doing what God"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1496.36,"endTime":1498.219,"body":"wants us to be doing? And listen, in"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1498.22,"endTime":1500.049,"body":"that story, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1500.05,"endTime":1500.969,"body":"hard work."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1500.97,"endTime":1503.049,"body":"Like, that wasn't easy -- or I'm"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1503.05,"endTime":1504.639,"body":"assuming here -- that wasn't easy"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1504.64,"endTime":1506.499,"body":"for Paul to stand"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1506.5,"endTime":1508.509,"body":"back up again, covered, beaten,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1508.51,"endTime":1510.369,"body":"covered in blood, and just walk"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1510.37,"endTime":1511.688,"body":"boldly back into that city."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1511.689,"endTime":1513.189,"body":"Like, it takes courage."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1513.19,"endTime":1514.479,"body":"It takes faith."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1514.48,"endTime":1515.769,"body":"It takes looking at that risk and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1515.77,"endTime":1516.639,"body":"saying, I'm going to push through"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1516.64,"endTime":1518.739,"body":"this, But at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1518.74,"endTime":1520.269,"body":"it's not on our shoulders."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1520.27,"endTime":1521.919,"body":"Whether it's successful or not, it's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1521.92,"endTime":1522.92,"body":"completely on God's."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1524.22,"endTime":1526.079,"body":"John, you've worked with lots of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1526.08,"endTime":1527.999,"body":"churches in around, but then"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1528.0,"endTime":1529.979,"body":"also with planting,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1529.98,"endTime":1531.299,"body":"you've had experience in that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1533.31,"endTime":1535.259,"body":"You and I have chatted about how"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1535.26,"endTime":1537.659,"body":"metrics need to change probably,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1537.66,"endTime":1539.639,"body":"and how we need to be thinking about"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1539.64,"endTime":1541.379,"body":"what does successful church look"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1541.38,"endTime":1542.669,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1542.67,"endTime":1544.469,"body":"Can you talk to that a little bit?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1544.47,"endTime":1546.569,"body":"And then also how"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1546.57,"endTime":1548.909,"body":"it actually looks for"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1548.91,"endTime":1549.984,"body":"an individual church to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1551.74,"endTime":1553.509,"body":"like--. So, for example, a church in"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1553.51,"endTime":1555.699,"body":"a small town in rural"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1555.7,"endTime":1557.739,"body":"Alberta probably"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1557.74,"endTime":1559.809,"body":"can't have the same"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1559.81,"endTime":1561.879,"body":"production, whatever, same"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1561.88,"endTime":1563.709,"body":"impact, or even"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1563.71,"endTime":1565.659,"body":"the same call,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1565.66,"endTime":1567.789,"body":"as maybe a church in a suburban area"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1567.79,"endTime":1568.74,"body":"to reach and, you know --."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1568.741,"endTime":1570.103,"body":"Can you talk about what those"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1572.11,"endTime":1573.639,"body":"metrics might need to be in the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1573.64,"endTime":1575.349,"body":"future, to shift?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1575.35,"endTime":1577.569,"body":"And then also talk about"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1577.57,"endTime":1579.849,"body":"how individual success"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1579.85,"endTime":1581.379,"body":"matters? Because in the end, God's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1581.38,"endTime":1583.299,"body":"going to ask us were we faithful"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1583.3,"endTime":1585.309,"body":"with what we were asked to do,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1585.31,"endTime":1586.629,"body":"not being faithful with someone"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1586.63,"endTime":1587.979,"body":"else's call."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1587.98,"endTime":1588.879,"body":"Yeah, I think that's a great"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1588.88,"endTime":1590.709,"body":"question, Paul."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1590.71,"endTime":1592.509,"body":"I think when it comes to metrics,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1592.51,"endTime":1593.94,"body":"the most helpful metrics --"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1593.941,"endTime":1596.259,"body":"sometimes people call them"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1596.26,"endTime":1598.089,"body":"lead metrics."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1598.09,"endTime":1600.039,"body":"Are we measuring the things"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1600.04,"endTime":1601.989,"body":"that are most likely to lead"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1601.99,"endTime":1603.759,"body":"to the results we want?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1603.76,"endTime":1605.649,"body":"And so let's take"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1605.65,"endTime":1607.779,"body":"evangelism as an example."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1607.78,"endTime":1609.669,"body":"Now, I have exactly"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1609.67,"endTime":1611.919,"body":"zero control"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1611.92,"endTime":1614.019,"body":"over whether somebody responds"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1614.02,"endTime":1615.02,"body":"to the gospel."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1616.17,"endTime":1617.759,"body":"Now, I care if they respond to the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1617.76,"endTime":1620.129,"body":"gospel, but I've got zero control."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1620.13,"endTime":1622.349,"body":"But what I do have control over"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1622.35,"endTime":1624.599,"body":"is, Am I initiating conversations?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1625.68,"endTime":1628.139,"body":"And so we want to measure"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1628.14,"endTime":1630.089,"body":"the things that we have control"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1630.09,"endTime":1632.009,"body":"over, that have the potential"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1632.01,"endTime":1634.709,"body":"to lead to the salvations."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1634.71,"endTime":1636.539,"body":"So, instead"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1636.54,"endTime":1638.549,"body":"of necessarily focusing on"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1638.55,"endTime":1640.199,"body":"measuring the salvation, which I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1640.2,"endTime":1642.599,"body":"have no control over, why"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1642.6,"endTime":1644.009,"body":"don't I measure how many times I"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1644.01,"endTime":1645.839,"body":"present the gospel?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1645.84,"endTime":1647.909,"body":"Why don't I measure the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1647.91,"endTime":1649.469,"body":"number of times that I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1649.47,"endTime":1650.999,"body":"connect with people?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1651.0,"endTime":1652.649,"body":"Because those are the things that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1652.65,"endTime":1654.599,"body":"really matter. And I mean, the two"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1654.6,"endTime":1656.489,"body":"are definitely linked, but one is my"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1656.49,"endTime":1657.869,"body":"responsibility."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1657.87,"endTime":1660.119,"body":"The others is their responsibility."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1660.12,"endTime":1661.439,"body":"God's responsibility."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1661.44,"endTime":1663.839,"body":"I don't have much to do about that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1663.84,"endTime":1665.729,"body":"But I can measure the things"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1665.73,"endTime":1667.049,"body":"that I do."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1667.05,"endTime":1668.939,"body":"And I think those are the most"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1668.94,"endTime":1670.949,"body":"important things for us to measure."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1670.95,"endTime":1672.149,"body":"Sometimes people call it about"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1672.15,"endTime":1674.339,"body":"celebrating the attempt."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1674.34,"endTime":1675.899,"body":"Like, did you get up to the plate?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1675.9,"endTime":1677.489,"body":"Did you swing the bat?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1677.49,"endTime":1679.109,"body":"Because if you never get up to the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1679.11,"endTime":1679.919,"body":"plate and you never swinging the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1679.92,"endTime":1680.939,"body":"back, guess what? You're not going"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1680.94,"endTime":1682.619,"body":"to hit any homeruns."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1682.62,"endTime":1684.469,"body":"But let's celebrate"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1684.47,"endTime":1686.309,"body":"our part of the responsibility"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1686.31,"endTime":1688.409,"body":"and not worry as much"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1688.41,"endTime":1690.269,"body":"about how other people"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1690.27,"endTime":1691.409,"body":"are responding."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1691.41,"endTime":1692.939,"body":"If that makes any sense."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1692.94,"endTime":1694.289,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1694.29,"endTime":1696.809,"body":"And then also just talk about how,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1696.81,"endTime":1698.129,"body":"you know, your call is going to be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1698.13,"endTime":1699.449,"body":"different than someone else's."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1699.45,"endTime":1701.279,"body":"And I think Howard Hendricks said"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1701.28,"endTime":1703.559,"body":"this - Dr. Howard Hendricks"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1703.56,"endTime":1705.479,"body":"said, comparison"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1705.48,"endTime":1708.239,"body":"is the highest form of carnality,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1708.24,"endTime":1710.309,"body":"meaning we're never more human than"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1710.31,"endTime":1711.929,"body":"when we're comparing."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1711.93,"endTime":1713.882,"body":"And I think that gets --"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1713.883,"endTime":1716.279,"body":"that becomes a real challenge,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1716.28,"endTime":1718.199,"body":"especially for church planters,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1718.2,"endTime":1719.819,"body":"when they hear the big stories, the"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1719.82,"endTime":1721.889,"body":"rags to riches stories."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1721.89,"endTime":1724.049,"body":"How do you encourage"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1724.05,"endTime":1726.029,"body":"a planter or a church to stay"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1726.03,"endTime":1727.38,"body":"at it, to be faithful?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1729.09,"endTime":1730.499,"body":"Because sometimes it does take a"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1730.5,"endTime":1732.329,"body":"while for that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1732.33,"endTime":1734.609,"body":"crop, that harvest to grow."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1734.61,"endTime":1736.439,"body":"Well, I think just when we talked a"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1736.44,"endTime":1738.239,"body":"little bit about facing your fears"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1738.24,"endTime":1739.24,"body":"and going through them, same"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1740.16,"endTime":1741.179,"body":"thing is when you're facing"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1741.18,"endTime":1742.92,"body":"challenges and difficulties."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1744.27,"endTime":1745.859,"body":"To face them and going through them."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1745.86,"endTime":1747.809,"body":"So, if there's a specific"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1747.81,"endTime":1749.669,"body":"issue in your church plant that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1749.67,"endTime":1751.619,"body":"you're struggling with, nobody's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1751.62,"endTime":1752.969,"body":"ever coming."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1752.97,"endTime":1754.739,"body":"Okay, well, don't ignore that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1754.74,"endTime":1756.149,"body":"Don't run away from that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1756.15,"endTime":1757.15,"body":"But ask,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1760.669,"body":"Do I know a coach who's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1760.67,"endTime":1762.589,"body":"had some success at dealing with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1762.59,"endTime":1764.299,"body":"that issue?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1764.3,"endTime":1766.009,"body":"Do I know another pastor who's had"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1766.01,"endTime":1768.109,"body":"success at dealing with that issue?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1768.11,"endTime":1769.939,"body":"Is there something I can learn from"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1769.94,"endTime":1772.189,"body":"them in order to deal with that?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1772.19,"endTime":1774.019,"body":"If we've got a problem"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1774.02,"endTime":1775.189,"body":"- and this is a problem a number of"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1775.19,"endTime":1777.057,"body":"churches have - where,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1777.058,"endTime":1778.609,"body":"no, no, no, we get lots of people"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1778.61,"endTime":1781.369,"body":"who come, but they only come once"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1781.37,"endTime":1783.469,"body":"and they never come back."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1783.47,"endTime":1784.47,"body":"Okay, that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1785.35,"endTime":1786.339,"body":"is unfortunate."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1786.34,"endTime":1787.759,"body":"But don't ignore that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1787.76,"endTime":1789.279,"body":"Go through that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1789.28,"endTime":1791.409,"body":"Okay, how can I find out"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1791.41,"endTime":1793.329,"body":"with through connections with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1793.33,"endTime":1794.799,"body":"other church planters, other"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1794.8,"endTime":1797.019,"body":"pastors, with coaches."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1797.02,"endTime":1798.399,"body":"Can you help me figure out what's"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1798.4,"endTime":1799.69,"body":"going wrong here?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1800.83,"endTime":1802.179,"body":"Can you help me figure out how to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1802.18,"endTime":1803.559,"body":"solve this issue?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1803.56,"endTime":1805.569,"body":"But it's always going to be looking"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1805.57,"endTime":1806.769,"body":"--. Like if something's not going"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1806.77,"endTime":1808.299,"body":"according to expectation,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1809.65,"endTime":1811.299,"body":"don't ignore that."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1811.3,"endTime":1813.399,"body":"First, pray about it."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1813.4,"endTime":1815.139,"body":"But then, like, don't hold the rest"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1815.14,"endTime":1817.149,"body":"of the body of Christ in contempt."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1817.15,"endTime":1818.859,"body":"I mean, we're a body of Christ for a"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1818.86,"endTime":1820.689,"body":"reason. We're supposed to rely on"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1820.69,"endTime":1822.069,"body":"each other. We're supposed to depend"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1822.07,"endTime":1822.969,"body":"on each other."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1822.97,"endTime":1824.559,"body":"We're supposed to teach and coach"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1824.56,"endTime":1825.879,"body":"and encourage each other."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1825.88,"endTime":1828.219,"body":"So if we are facing a challenge"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1828.22,"endTime":1829.449,"body":"in a certain area in our church"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1829.45,"endTime":1831.519,"body":"plant, hey, reach out to the body."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1831.52,"endTime":1832.839,"body":"That's what we're here for."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1832.84,"endTime":1834.819,"body":"Yeah. And I totally agree"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1834.82,"endTime":1836.829,"body":"with that, that don't actually"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1836.83,"endTime":1838.239,"body":"be in competition with someone"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1838.24,"endTime":1839.289,"body":"because you're actually on the same"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1839.29,"endTime":1840.699,"body":"team."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1840.7,"endTime":1842.829,"body":"So, like, if that"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1842.83,"endTime":1844.659,"body":"that leader that knows how to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1844.66,"endTime":1846.369,"body":"grow a church and knows how to keep"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1846.37,"endTime":1848.409,"body":"first time guests and you know"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1848.41,"endTime":1850.269,"body":"on ramp people with"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1850.27,"endTime":1852.339,"body":"good evangelism and all of that,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1853.54,"endTime":1854.589,"body":"reach out."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1854.59,"endTime":1856.179,"body":"You know, you're not -- you can't be"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1856.18,"endTime":1857.709,"body":"great at everything."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1857.71,"endTime":1859.809,"body":"And sometimes we ask"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1859.81,"endTime":1861.066,"body":"planters and --."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1861.067,"endTime":1861.909,"body":"That's why it's so important to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1861.91,"endTime":1862.91,"body":"plant with the team,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1863.77,"endTime":1865.419,"body":"because you can't be all things to"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1865.42,"endTime":1866.42,"body":"all people."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1867.54,"endTime":1867.683,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1867.684,"endTime":1870.309,"body":"You need you need help and"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1870.31,"endTime":1872.289,"body":"--. No, that's really, really good."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1872.29,"endTime":1874.389,"body":"Michael, you have a scripture"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1874.39,"endTime":1876.369,"body":"for us that that ties"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1876.37,"endTime":1877.37,"body":"into this thing, this"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1878.56,"endTime":1880.719,"body":"topic we are discussing today."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1881.74,"endTime":1882.639,"body":"Yes, that's right."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1882.64,"endTime":1885.309,"body":"So for all of us wondering,"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1885.31,"endTime":1886.899,"body":"is it worth the risk?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1886.9,"endTime":1888.099,"body":"You know, it's way too risky."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1888.1,"endTime":1889.389,"body":"It's way too hard to do."},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1889.39,"endTime":1891.249,"body":"Like, is this really worth it?"},{"speaker":"of","startTime":1891.25,"endTime":1892.929,"body":"I just want to read you Hebrews"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1892.93,"endTime":1894.099,"body":"6."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1894.1,"endTime":1895.329,"body":"And this is a classic verse."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1895.33,"endTime":1896.619,"body":"We all know it."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1896.62,"endTime":1898.479,"body":"It says, And without faith, it is"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1898.48,"endTime":1900.429,"body":"impossible to please God"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1900.43,"endTime":1902.439,"body":"because anyone who comes to Him must"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1902.44,"endTime":1904.239,"body":"believe that He exists and that He"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1904.24,"endTime":1906.459,"body":"rewards those who earnestly"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1906.46,"endTime":1907.599,"body":"seek Him."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1907.6,"endTime":1910.149,"body":"And it's just, it's a very"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1910.15,"endTime":1912.189,"body":"blunt statement, right? If you want"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1912.19,"endTime":1914.019,"body":"to please God, it's going"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1914.02,"endTime":1914.859,"body":"to take faith."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1914.86,"endTime":1915.969,"body":"It's it's going to--."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1915.97,"endTime":1917.642,"body":"And faith shows trust, right?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1918.88,"endTime":1920.889,"body":"And I know it's a difficult question"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1920.89,"endTime":1922.729,"body":"that we have to ask ourselves,"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1922.73,"endTime":1924.189,"body":"and it kind of hurts if we're"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1924.19,"endTime":1925.839,"body":"actually being honest."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1925.84,"endTime":1928.509,"body":"But in this area of multiplication,"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1928.51,"endTime":1930.399,"body":"do we trust God that He's going to"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1930.4,"endTime":1931.899,"body":"come through? If He's leading us to"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1931.9,"endTime":1933.399,"body":"something do we really trust that"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1933.4,"endTime":1934.989,"body":"He's able to do it?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1934.99,"endTime":1936.339,"body":"Do we really trust that it's going"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1936.34,"endTime":1937.689,"body":"to be worth it in the end?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1937.69,"endTime":1939.189,"body":"Do we really trust that the hard"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1939.19,"endTime":1941.319,"body":"work, that there's this reward"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1941.32,"endTime":1942.699,"body":"on the other side that actually was"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1942.7,"endTime":1944.319,"body":"worth going through?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1944.32,"endTime":1946.149,"body":"And, you know, I  think I"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1946.15,"endTime":1947.259,"body":"would challenge every single person"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1947.26,"endTime":1949.089,"body":"listening today. Let's honestly ask"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1949.09,"endTime":1950.679,"body":"ourselves, do we have the faith for"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1950.68,"endTime":1952.539,"body":"that? Do we have the trust for that?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1952.54,"endTime":1954.609,"body":"And and if not, we probably"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1954.61,"endTime":1955.869,"body":"we probably need to push ourselves"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1955.87,"endTime":1957.369,"body":"on that and challenge ourselves on"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1957.37,"endTime":1958.37,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1958.6,"endTime":1960.519,"body":"Yeah, like, I can"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1960.52,"endTime":1961.539,"body":"almost hear someone out there"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1961.54,"endTime":1963.429,"body":"saying, Well, if I have total"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1963.43,"endTime":1966.039,"body":"faith and trust in God,"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1966.04,"endTime":1967.569,"body":"is there any risk involved?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1968.61,"endTime":1970.119,"body":"But boy, I mean, that would that's"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1970.12,"endTime":1971.271,"body":"an interesting --."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1971.272,"endTime":1972.429,"body":"You know, that's an interesting"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1972.43,"endTime":1973.359,"body":"thing to think about."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1973.36,"endTime":1976.359,"body":"Like, if I am so convinced"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1976.36,"endTime":1978.129,"body":"that God has spoke, that He is"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1978.13,"endTime":1979.957,"body":"faithful and I totally trust"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1979.958,"endTime":1982.659,"body":"Him, where's the risk"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1982.66,"endTime":1983.66,"body":"then?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1984.4,"endTime":1987.099,"body":"Like, where is the risk?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1987.1,"endTime":1988.989,"body":"And Lord, help"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1988.99,"endTime":1990.819,"body":"my faith. I want to be there."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1990.82,"endTime":1992.679,"body":"I want to have that kind of --"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1992.68,"endTime":1993.819,"body":"that kind of level."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1993.82,"endTime":1994.659,"body":"And you know what?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1994.66,"endTime":1996.609,"body":"I talk with some people -"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1996.61,"endTime":1998.169,"body":"and I could list off the names of"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":1998.17,"endTime":2000.109,"body":"them and you would know them -"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2000.11,"endTime":2001.679,"body":"that that's how they live."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2001.68,"endTime":2003.539,"body":"God's going to come through."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2003.54,"endTime":2004.617,"body":"I am so convinced."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2004.618,"endTime":2006.599,"body":"This isn't a risk."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2006.6,"endTime":2007.829,"body":"We have to do this, or we're"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2007.83,"endTime":2009.011,"body":"planting this, or we're going here,"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2009.012,"endTime":2010.936,"body":"and I'm convinced that God --."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2010.937,"endTime":2012.899,"body":"And it just like, I'm amazed"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2012.9,"endTime":2014.579,"body":"at their faith."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2014.58,"endTime":2016.679,"body":"Yeah. And can we just affirm every"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2016.68,"endTime":2018.149,"body":"person who has planted a church"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2018.15,"endTime":2019.619,"body":"listening to this right now?"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2019.62,"endTime":2020.8,"body":"Is that, yeah, it may be scary"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2020.801,"endTime":2022.799,"body":"during, but the fact"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2022.8,"endTime":2024.779,"body":"that you did it shows you"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2024.78,"endTime":2026.339,"body":"believed God could do it."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2026.34,"endTime":2028.229,"body":"So just Gold Star."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2028.23,"endTime":2028.349,"body":"Well done. Thumbs up. High five. Well"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2028.23,"endTime":2028.349,"body":"done."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2028.35,"endTime":2029.35,"body":"Ten"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2030.72,"endTime":2032.399,"body":"points. You get ten points."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2032.4,"endTime":2033.569,"body":"You redeemed them at the end of the"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2033.57,"endTime":2035.549,"body":"podcast for something."},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2035.55,"endTime":2037.679,"body":"So here's the objection we've"},{"speaker":"11","startTime":2037.68,"endTime":2039.809,"body":"been, you know, batting around"},{"speaker":"the room like a pinata","startTime":2039.81,"endTime":2042.059,"body":"The"},{"speaker":"the room like a pinata","startTime":2042.06,"endTime":2044.099,"body":"work is too hard and risky"},{"speaker":"the room like a pinata","startTime":2044.1,"endTime":2045.269,"body":"to be involved in church"},{"speaker":"the room like a pinata","startTime":2045.27,"endTime":2046.469,"body":"multiplication."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2048.54,"endTime":2050.158,"body":"It's God's church."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2050.159,"endTime":2052.408,"body":"So it's His risk and our"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2052.409,"endTime":2053.638,"body":"obedience."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2053.639,"endTime":2056.428,"body":"And -- and I love this -- the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2056.429,"endTime":2058.349,"body":"result of new disciples"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2058.35,"endTime":2060.658,"body":"is worth the hard work and risk"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2060.659,"endTime":2062.549,"body":"of church multiplication."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2062.55,"endTime":2063.809,"body":"This week, I've had"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2064.98,"endTime":2066.959,"body":"3 or 4"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2066.96,"endTime":2068.879,"body":"conversations of"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2068.88,"endTime":2070.769,"body":"people who are going to be"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2070.77,"endTime":2072.448,"body":"planting a church or kicking tires"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2072.449,"endTime":2073.619,"body":"on it."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2073.62,"endTime":2075.209,"body":"And as I kind of overview the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2075.21,"endTime":2076.499,"body":"process and all the different things"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2076.5,"endTime":2077.849,"body":"they have to do and the, you know,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2077.85,"endTime":2078.928,"body":"the coaching, the training, the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2078.929,"endTime":2080.189,"body":"fundraising and all these different"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2080.19,"endTime":2082.138,"body":"things and you just"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2082.139,"endTime":2083.729,"body":"see the look on their face like,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2083.73,"endTime":2085.769,"body":"Whoa, this is this is big."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2085.77,"endTime":2088.349,"body":"This is a big step."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2088.35,"endTime":2089.141,"body":"And I remind them."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2089.142,"endTime":2090.299,"body":"I say, Okay, close your eyes for a"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2090.3,"endTime":2093.419,"body":"second and I want you to picture"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2093.42,"endTime":2095.129,"body":"that first mom and dad with their"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2095.13,"endTime":2096.988,"body":"family that come"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2096.989,"endTime":2098.549,"body":"to your church. Someone invited"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2098.55,"endTime":2100.499,"body":"them, and they respond"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2100.5,"endTime":2102.119,"body":"to Jesus for the first time."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2103.59,"endTime":2105.389,"body":"That young adult, that college"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2105.39,"endTime":2106.607,"body":"career student that's struggling,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2106.608,"endTime":2108.629,"body":"can't find community,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2108.63,"endTime":2109.949,"body":"you know, trying to explore"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2109.95,"endTime":2111.629,"body":"everything in the world and finding"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2111.63,"endTime":2113.219,"body":"hopelessness and empty."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2113.22,"endTime":2115.139,"body":"And they hear a message of"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2115.14,"endTime":2116.549,"body":"the gospel and respond."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2116.55,"endTime":2118.919,"body":"I want you to picture that first"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2118.92,"endTime":2121.439,"body":"person that comes to Jesus"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2121.44,"endTime":2122.849,"body":"in your church plant."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2122.85,"endTime":2124.409,"body":"What are you going to say?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2124.41,"endTime":2126.239,"body":"And they almost always say"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2126.24,"endTime":2127.24,"body":"it will be worth it."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2128.45,"endTime":2130.039,"body":"It's worth it."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2130.04,"endTime":2131.509,"body":"And that's what we have to keep"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2131.51,"endTime":2132.289,"body":"front and center."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2132.29,"endTime":2133.549,"body":"It's not --.  Jesus didn't actually"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2133.55,"endTime":2135.019,"body":"tell us to plant churches."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2135.02,"endTime":2136.759,"body":"He told us to make disciples and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2136.76,"endTime":2137.809,"body":"expand the kingdom."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2137.81,"endTime":2139.219,"body":"That's what church -- church"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2139.22,"endTime":2141.289,"body":"multiplication has to be, always"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2141.29,"endTime":2143.509,"body":"be, in service"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2143.51,"endTime":2144.379,"body":"of that."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2144.38,"endTime":2146.749,"body":"So if we believe"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2146.75,"endTime":2148.57,"body":"that it's God's church, so it's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2148.571,"endTime":2151.069,"body":"His risk and our obedience,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2151.07,"endTime":2152.869,"body":"and the result of new disciples is"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2152.87,"endTime":2154.699,"body":"worth the hard work and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2154.7,"endTime":2156.649,"body":"risk of multiplication."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2156.65,"endTime":2158.599,"body":"Since we believe this, what are some"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2158.6,"endTime":2160.249,"body":"next steps, John, that we need to"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2160.25,"endTime":2161.119,"body":"do?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2161.12,"endTime":2162.709,"body":"The understanding that it's God's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2162.71,"endTime":2164.539,"body":"church, I think is"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2164.54,"endTime":2166.489,"body":"really important on a number"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2166.49,"endTime":2168.319,"body":"of different levels, but one of them"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2168.32,"endTime":2170.239,"body":"even is connected to the issue of"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2170.24,"endTime":2171.24,"body":"risk."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2172.34,"endTime":2174.319,"body":"When I look at"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2174.32,"endTime":2176.149,"body":"unsuccessful"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2176.15,"endTime":2177.29,"body":"church plants,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2178.31,"endTime":2180.559,"body":"the attitude of the planter wasn't"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2180.56,"endTime":2182.539,"body":"that this is God's church, but"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2182.54,"endTime":2184.22,"body":"it was that this was my church,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2185.57,"endTime":2187.489,"body":"and I was"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2187.49,"endTime":2190.069,"body":"going to plant the kind of church"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2190.07,"endTime":2191.869,"body":"that I thought was the right thing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2191.87,"endTime":2193.909,"body":"to do that's going to"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2193.91,"endTime":2195.409,"body":"do things my way."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2195.41,"endTime":2196.879,"body":"And it's been a real preference"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2196.88,"endTime":2198.799,"body":"driven church. And I remember one"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2198.8,"endTime":2200.059,"body":"night -- and actually you might even"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2200.06,"endTime":2201.082,"body":"have been there, Paul, this was"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2201.083,"endTime":2202.969,"body":"years ago at an assessment in"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2202.97,"endTime":2203.97,"body":"Calgary -- the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2205.43,"endTime":2207.259,"body":"church planter's motivation for"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2207.26,"endTime":2208.712,"body":"planting a church is, Finally"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2210.02,"endTime":2211.129,"body":"there's going to be a church that's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2211.13,"endTime":2213.259,"body":"going to do church doctrine my"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2213.26,"endTime":2214.26,"body":"way."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2217.52,"endTime":2218.359,"body":"Man, that's --. When the church"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2218.36,"endTime":2220.939,"body":"becomes all about your church"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2220.94,"endTime":2223.159,"body":"and doing things your way --."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2223.16,"endTime":2225.049,"body":"Man, you just took the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2225.05,"endTime":2226.669,"body":"risk element and just shot it"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2226.67,"endTime":2227.689,"body":"through the roof."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2229.04,"endTime":2230.735,"body":"That is really, really risky."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2230.736,"endTime":2232.819,"body":"When it's God's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2232.82,"endTime":2233.82,"body":"church, the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2235.16,"endTime":2237.199,"body":"risk goes down dramatically,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2237.2,"endTime":2239.059,"body":"not only because it's God's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2239.06,"endTime":2241.009,"body":"strong arm that's fueling"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2241.01,"endTime":2243.139,"body":"the church, but when we start doing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2243.14,"endTime":2245.269,"body":"things God's way and we"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2245.27,"endTime":2247.789,"body":"lower our pride"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2247.79,"endTime":2250.279,"body":"and are doing things in submission"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2250.28,"endTime":2252.289,"body":"to Him and we're having those"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2252.29,"endTime":2253.909,"body":"open and teachable hearts."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2253.91,"endTime":2254.91,"body":"Boy, that makes"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2256.54,"endTime":2258.489,"body":"such a difference in"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2258.49,"endTime":2260.679,"body":"our chances of this actually"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2260.68,"endTime":2261.68,"body":"going."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2262.51,"endTime":2264.519,"body":"When we don't look at it as God's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2264.52,"endTime":2266.409,"body":"church yet, that is a recipe"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2266.41,"endTime":2267.309,"body":"for disaster."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2267.31,"endTime":2269.019,"body":"That's so important."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2269.02,"endTime":2270.909,"body":"Yeah, I think it comes down to just"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2270.91,"endTime":2272.559,"body":"remembering our identity."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2272.56,"endTime":2273.429,"body":"Who are we?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2273.43,"endTime":2275.319,"body":"We're children of God."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2275.32,"endTime":2277.089,"body":"We belong to God's kingdom."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2277.09,"endTime":2278.559,"body":"We're leaders in God's kingdom."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2278.56,"endTime":2279.669,"body":"He's given us authority."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2279.67,"endTime":2280.929,"body":"He has given us the ability and the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2280.93,"endTime":2282.279,"body":"power to do this."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2282.28,"endTime":2284.139,"body":"Not because we're good,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2284.14,"endTime":2285.879,"body":"but because He's good and He's with"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2285.88,"endTime":2287.769,"body":"us. So let's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2287.77,"endTime":2288.999,"body":"go live that out."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2289.0,"endTime":2291.429,"body":"You know, like, if He's with us,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2291.43,"endTime":2293.059,"body":"who who could be against us?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2293.06,"endTime":2294.729,"body":"Like, you can't stop what God is"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2294.73,"endTime":2295.989,"body":"doing in this world."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2295.99,"endTime":2297.909,"body":"And the fact that He's included us"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2297.91,"endTime":2299.469,"body":"in this--. Like, let's just go."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2299.47,"endTime":2300.349,"body":"Enjoy the ride."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2300.35,"endTime":2302.139,"body":"Listen, I know it's like a mountain"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2302.14,"endTime":2303.789,"body":"in front of you. I know it's so much"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2303.79,"endTime":2305.659,"body":"work. I know there's a huge cost"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2305.66,"endTime":2306.639,"body":"to being a disciple."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2306.64,"endTime":2307.899,"body":"There's huge cost to making"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2307.9,"endTime":2309.609,"body":"disciples. It's so much work."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2309.61,"endTime":2311.169,"body":"Yeah, it feels risky sometimes."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2311.17,"endTime":2313.059,"body":"But if God's called us to"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2313.06,"endTime":2315.039,"body":"it, it's all going to work out"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2315.04,"endTime":2316.629,"body":"in the end, and it's worth it."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2316.63,"endTime":2318.489,"body":"So I think just, we just need to"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2318.49,"endTime":2319.809,"body":"remind ourselves. This is who we"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2319.81,"endTime":2321.939,"body":"are. We're Kingdom of God people,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2321.94,"endTime":2323.469,"body":"so let's go live it out."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2323.47,"endTime":2325.389,"body":"Yeah, I think I agree with"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2325.39,"endTime":2327.429,"body":"both both of you guys on your"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2327.43,"endTime":2330.399,"body":"thoughts about it's God's church and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2331.659,"body":"that we actually just have to go out"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2331.66,"endTime":2332.859,"body":"and do it believing that He's going"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2332.86,"endTime":2334.299,"body":"to help us with it."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2334.3,"endTime":2335.769,"body":"But, you know this, that making"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2335.77,"endTime":2337.659,"body":"disciples is also inconvenient and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2337.66,"endTime":2339.159,"body":"uncomfortable sometimes."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2339.16,"endTime":2340.419,"body":"And I think we've got to be okay"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2340.42,"endTime":2341.987,"body":"with embracing that."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2341.988,"endTime":2343.839,"body":"That it's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2343.84,"endTime":2345.699,"body":"not just going to be a tidy 9"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2345.7,"endTime":2347.619,"body":"to 5 with a, you know,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2347.62,"endTime":2349.449,"body":"9 to 5 Monday to Friday with a"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2349.45,"endTime":2351.369,"body":"9 to 11, and then leave"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2351.37,"endTime":2352.37,"body":"me alone."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2353.5,"endTime":2355.029,"body":"You know, don't don't talk to me."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2355.03,"endTime":2356.949,"body":"Because you're going"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2356.95,"endTime":2357.909,"body":"to have to --. Because one of the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2357.91,"endTime":2359.919,"body":"things I tell people early on, and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2359.92,"endTime":2361.539,"body":"I'm trying to discern quickly, Are"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2361.54,"endTime":2363.369,"body":"you trying to plant a church"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2363.37,"endTime":2364.569,"body":"or are you trying to plant to"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2364.57,"endTime":2366.069,"body":"service?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2366.07,"endTime":2368.079,"body":"Because how you're talking right now"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2368.08,"endTime":2370.029,"body":"sounds like you just want"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2370.03,"endTime":2371.919,"body":"to have people come to your"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2371.92,"endTime":2373.929,"body":"church and and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2373.93,"endTime":2374.93,"body":"hear you talk."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2375.73,"endTime":2376.899,"body":"And I'm sure you have a lot of great"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2376.9,"endTime":2378.209,"body":"things to say."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2378.21,"endTime":2380.469,"body":"And I think Sunday gatherings,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2380.47,"endTime":2382.089,"body":"or Wednesdays, or whatever your"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2382.09,"endTime":2383.09,"body":"weekly gathering is, is super"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2384.25,"endTime":2385.539,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2385.54,"endTime":2387.669,"body":"But planting a church or doing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2387.67,"endTime":2389.979,"body":"a campus is so much more"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2389.98,"endTime":2391.869,"body":"- or a micro church - is doing so"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2391.87,"endTime":2394.479,"body":"much more than just"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2394.48,"endTime":2395.739,"body":"organizing programs."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2395.74,"endTime":2397.209,"body":"It's doing life together with"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2397.21,"endTime":2399.639,"body":"people, which means if we're about"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2399.64,"endTime":2401.379,"body":"making disciples and that's the end"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2401.38,"endTime":2403.149,"body":"goal and expanding the kingdom and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2403.15,"endTime":2405.129,"body":"we're pushing past the risk"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2405.13,"endTime":2407.019,"body":"to do that, we also have to be"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2407.02,"endTime":2409.149,"body":"aware that what we're signing up for"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2409.15,"endTime":2412.119,"body":"is inconvenience."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2412.12,"endTime":2414.039,"body":"And you"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2414.04,"endTime":2415.449,"body":"know -- Michael, you put here in the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2415.45,"endTime":2418.269,"body":"notes -- it can be uncomfortable."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2418.27,"endTime":2420.429,"body":"And you get in tough spots"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2420.43,"endTime":2422.679,"body":"having to try to figure things out."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2422.68,"endTime":2424.959,"body":"But let's"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2424.96,"endTime":2426.789,"body":"remember that God's with us in"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2426.79,"endTime":2429.009,"body":"it and we don't have to do it alone."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2429.01,"endTime":2430.719,"body":"And you should never be doing a"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2430.72,"endTime":2432.129,"body":"multiplication effort alone."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2432.13,"endTime":2434.019,"body":"There should be a team that"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2434.02,"endTime":2435.879,"body":"you have there with you on site, but"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2435.88,"endTime":2437.079,"body":"then there should also be a team"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2437.08,"endTime":2438.339,"body":"behind you."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2438.34,"endTime":2439.809,"body":"One of the things we're trying to do"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2439.81,"endTime":2441.669,"body":"in our fellowship is raise"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2441.67,"endTime":2443.859,"body":"up a thousand people to pray"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2443.86,"endTime":2445.809,"body":"every single month"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2445.81,"endTime":2446.81,"body":"for"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2447.79,"endTime":2449.529,"body":"church multiplication efforts in"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2449.53,"endTime":2450.609,"body":"Canada."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2450.61,"endTime":2452.349,"body":"And the reason why we do that is I"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2452.35,"endTime":2454.269,"body":"want a planter who has"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2454.27,"endTime":2456.129,"body":"maybe 50 people at"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2456.13,"endTime":2457.809,"body":"their church --and they're working"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2457.81,"endTime":2459.039,"body":"hard and they're spending time with"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2459.04,"endTime":2460.899,"body":"these people --And growing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2461.919,"body":"the church, people are getting saved"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2460.9,"endTime":2461.919,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2461.92,"endTime":2463.569,"body":"baptized. And they're on a gym"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2463.57,"endTime":2465.549,"body":"floor. And they can they"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2465.55,"endTime":2466.659,"body":"can get up with the confidence,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2466.66,"endTime":2468.759,"body":"knowing a thousand people"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2468.76,"endTime":2471.339,"body":"prayed for them this month, and"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2471.34,"endTime":2473.169,"body":"maybe even by name if they"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2473.17,"endTime":2474.939,"body":"knew them. Like, just like --  I"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2474.94,"endTime":2476.889,"body":"want you to know that you're never"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2476.89,"endTime":2478.869,"body":"in this alone."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2478.87,"endTime":2480.759,"body":"And to me, that helps mitigate risk"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2480.76,"endTime":2482.529,"body":"too, is that when you got other"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2482.53,"endTime":2483.969,"body":"people around you--?"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2483.97,"endTime":2485.499,"body":"So we got to do this together."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2485.5,"endTime":2487.419,"body":"It's true we are better"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2487.42,"endTime":2488.709,"body":"together."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2488.71,"endTime":2489.879,"body":"John, we'll start with you."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2489.88,"endTime":2491.649,"body":"Any final thoughts, any closing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2491.65,"endTime":2493.329,"body":"thoughts or encouragement? And then"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2493.33,"endTime":2494.889,"body":"Michael, over to you and then we'll"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2494.89,"endTime":2496.959,"body":"close off the podcast."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2496.96,"endTime":2498.429,"body":"Well, I think just sort of echoing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2498.43,"endTime":2500.019,"body":"what Michael had said about"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2500.02,"endTime":2502.329,"body":"understanding our own identity."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2502.33,"endTime":2504.069,"body":"If you look at the Sermon on the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2504.07,"endTime":2506.019,"body":"Mount, the most famous"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2506.02,"endTime":2507.909,"body":"sermon in history,"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2507.91,"endTime":2509.259,"body":"who did Jesus say was the light of"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2509.26,"endTime":2510.26,"body":"the world? He"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2511.16,"endTime":2512.479,"body":"said, You are the light of the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2512.48,"endTime":2513.529,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2513.53,"endTime":2514.999,"body":"He said, you are the salt of the"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2515.0,"endTime":2515.839,"body":"earth."},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2515.84,"endTime":2518.149,"body":"So God has given us this amazing"},{"speaker":"So here's our counter statement","startTime":2518.15,"endTime":2519.139,"body":"calling."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2519.14,"endTime":2521.089,"body":"10, one"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2521.09,"endTime":2522.739,"body":"of my favorite verses."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2522.74,"endTime":2525.679,"body":"You are God's masterpiece."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2525.68,"endTime":2528.139,"body":"Created anew in Christ,"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2528.14,"endTime":2530.179,"body":"destined to do great things."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2530.18,"endTime":2532.009,"body":"And I think we need to take that and"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2532.01,"endTime":2533.479,"body":"we need to own that."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2533.48,"endTime":2535.549,"body":"And we demonstrate"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2535.55,"endTime":2537.349,"body":"our faith by our obedience."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2538.4,"endTime":2539.479,"body":"Great. Thanks, John."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2539.48,"endTime":2540.829,"body":"Michael, your thoughts?"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2540.83,"endTime":2542.029,"body":"Yeah, I would just encourage"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2542.03,"endTime":2543.03,"body":"everyone listening. It's"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2543.98,"endTime":2544.98,"body":"worth it."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2545.42,"endTime":2547.429,"body":"The costs that we're paying by"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2547.43,"endTime":2549.169,"body":"taking the risk and going through"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2549.17,"endTime":2551.329,"body":"all the hard work, it's worth"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2551.33,"endTime":2552.289,"body":"it for new disciples."},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2552.29,"endTime":2553.879,"body":"You know, I was just -- just the"},{"speaker":"I think of like Ephesians 2","startTime":2553.88,"endTime":2556.069,"body":"other day, it was like 12,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2556.07,"endTime":2558.049,"body":"30 at night."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2558.05,"endTime":2559.204,"body":"Get a text. Hey, are you awake,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2559.205,"endTime":2560.209,"body":"Pastor?"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2560.21,"endTime":2561.589,"body":"And it's someone who's been coming"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2561.59,"endTime":2562.699,"body":"to church the last three months."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2562.7,"endTime":2564.739,"body":"New Christian, and just going"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2564.74,"endTime":2566.059,"body":"through some relationship problems."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2566.06,"endTime":2567.289,"body":"So I'm like, Yeah, yeah, sure, we"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2567.29,"endTime":2568.219,"body":"can call real quick."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2568.22,"endTime":2569.989,"body":"But it was great just having that"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2569.99,"endTime":2571.309,"body":"call, just for 45 minutes."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2571.31,"endTime":2572.239,"body":"Just going through."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2572.24,"endTime":2573.409,"body":"Yeah. Well, what about this?"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2573.41,"endTime":2575.209,"body":"You know, God thinks this of your"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2575.21,"endTime":2576.409,"body":"relationship."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2576.41,"endTime":2577.789,"body":"You know, God would want you to do"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2577.79,"endTime":2579.349,"body":"this in this area and this sort of"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2579.35,"endTime":2580.609,"body":"thing. And just --."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2580.61,"endTime":2582.469,"body":"I remember just the emotional"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2582.47,"endTime":2583.579,"body":"toll it was taking on me."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2583.58,"endTime":2585.439,"body":"But I remember hanging up that"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2585.44,"endTime":2587.419,"body":"phone afterwards and just thinking"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2587.42,"endTime":2589.429,"body":"about, here's a new Christian that's"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2589.43,"endTime":2591.049,"body":"being discipled, learning what it"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2591.05,"endTime":2592.579,"body":"means to follow Jesus, how to view"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2592.58,"endTime":2593.58,"body":"things the way Jesus views things."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2594.41,"endTime":2596.509,"body":"And just thinking, yes,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2596.51,"endTime":2598.399,"body":"like this is what it's all"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2598.4,"endTime":2600.319,"body":"about. This is why we do"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2600.32,"endTime":2601.999,"body":"what we do. All of the hard work to"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2602.0,"endTime":2604.009,"body":"get here, all worth it for moments"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2604.01,"endTime":2604.819,"body":"like that. So I just want to"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2604.82,"endTime":2606.739,"body":"encourage you. It is worth it."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2606.74,"endTime":2607.609,"body":"Keep going."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2607.61,"endTime":2608.779,"body":"You're doing great."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2608.78,"endTime":2610.639,"body":"Guys, thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2610.64,"endTime":2612.379,"body":"being a part -- Michael, as always,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2612.38,"endTime":2613.999,"body":"for being co host and John, for"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2614.0,"endTime":2616.519,"body":"jumping on as our guest today."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2616.52,"endTime":2617.929,"body":"Thanks for being a part of this"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2617.93,"endTime":2618.979,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2618.98,"endTime":2620.239,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2620.24,"endTime":2622.129,"body":"Well, we've got some resources for"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2622.13,"endTime":2623.13,"body":"you at EveryChurch.ca. One"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2624.71,"endTime":2626.689,"body":"of the things that we"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2626.69,"endTime":2628.729,"body":"like to share are these free"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2628.73,"endTime":2630.739,"body":"resources. We have something"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2630.74,"endTime":2633.109,"body":"for you there called a Readiness"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2633.11,"endTime":2634.879,"body":"Assessment. So maybe you're sitting"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2634.88,"endTime":2636.739,"body":"there thinking, is our church"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2636.74,"endTime":2638.269,"body":"ready to multiply?"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2638.27,"endTime":2640.069,"body":"I want to push past this risk."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2640.07,"endTime":2642.649,"body":"I don't want this to be something"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2642.65,"endTime":2644.96,"body":"that is an objection that we're"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2646.04,"endTime":2648.139,"body":"allowing to get in our way"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2648.14,"endTime":2650.269,"body":"of what God has for us."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2650.27,"endTime":2652.399,"body":"This Readiness Assessment might help"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2652.4,"endTime":2654.169,"body":"you understand where your church is"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2654.17,"endTime":2655.956,"body":"at. Lists off seven areas, that's"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2657.08,"endTime":2658.849,"body":"just a quick self-assessment, that"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2658.85,"endTime":2660.319,"body":"we think you need to be proficient"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2660.32,"endTime":2662.239,"body":"in as a church to be"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2662.24,"endTime":2663.469,"body":"a multiplying church."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2663.47,"endTime":2664.939,"body":"So there's a Readiness Assessment"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2664.94,"endTime":2665.94,"body":"there for you at EveryChurch.ca. John"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2668.03,"endTime":2670.039,"body":"and others are a part"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2670.04,"endTime":2671.04,"body":"of ChurchVitalization.ca. So"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2673.22,"endTime":2675.949,"body":"there's lots of things on just like"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2675.95,"endTime":2678.229,"body":"keeping your church vital,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2678.23,"endTime":2680.209,"body":"good videos, good resources."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2680.21,"endTime":2682.159,"body":"There's modules,  training"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2682.16,"endTime":2683.359,"body":"that's available for you."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2683.36,"endTime":2684.799,"body":"So we want you to check that out."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2684.8,"endTime":2685.8,"body":"ChurchVitalization.ca. And"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2688.58,"endTime":2689.809,"body":"you're going to find a lot of great"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2689.81,"endTime":2691.279,"body":"stuff there. One of the things we've"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2691.28,"endTime":2693.199,"body":"discovered is that, in"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2693.2,"endTime":2695.089,"body":"the first 3 to 4 years of church"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2695.09,"endTime":2696.949,"body":"plants, we see a"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2696.95,"endTime":2698.629,"body":"real uptick in salvation."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2698.63,"endTime":2700.849,"body":"But by year four and five,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2700.85,"endTime":2702.769,"body":"the church salvation"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2702.77,"endTime":2704.689,"body":"numbers drop to that of existing"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2704.69,"endTime":2705.619,"body":"churches."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2705.62,"endTime":2707.569,"body":"So you need to be constantly"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2707.57,"endTime":2709.129,"body":"looking at how can we keep our"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2709.13,"endTime":2711.499,"body":"systems in our processes"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2711.5,"endTime":2713.539,"body":"and just our heart"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2713.54,"endTime":2715.399,"body":"for evangelism going."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2715.4,"endTime":2717.272,"body":"ChurchVitalization.ca will"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2717.273,"endTime":2718.459,"body":"help you with that."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2718.46,"endTime":2720.049,"body":"Again, thanks so much for jumping"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2720.05,"endTime":2722.209,"body":"on. We've only got one more"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2722.21,"endTime":2724.039,"body":"objection that we're going to be"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2724.04,"endTime":2726.109,"body":"talking about, and so hopefully"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2726.11,"endTime":2727.039,"body":"you'll tune in for that."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2727.04,"endTime":2728.689,"body":"Thanks so much for jumping on today"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2728.69,"endTime":2730.189,"body":"and listening to our podcast."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2730.19,"endTime":2731.19,"body":"Have a great day."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2732.56,"endTime":2733.459,"body":"Well, thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2733.46,"endTime":2735.259,"body":"Today we trust this conversation was"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2735.26,"endTime":2736.309,"body":"encouraging."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2736.31,"endTime":2737.599,"body":"If you want more information on"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2737.6,"endTime":2739.519,"body":"church multiplication resources"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2739.52,"endTime":2740.689,"body":"or if you think we can help you in"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2740.69,"endTime":2742.729,"body":"your church multiplication journey,"},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2742.73,"endTime":2744.469,"body":"reach out to us by email."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2744.47,"endTime":2745.47,"body":"MultiplyNetwork@paoc.org."},{"speaker":"12","startTime":2747.62,"endTime":2748.62,"body":"Until next time."}]}