More Than a Degree: Becoming a Systems Problem Solver

In this episode of UMBC Mic’d Up, we sat down with Gordon Quach, M.S. ’25, to talk about his journey through the Systems Engineering graduate program at UMBC.

Gordon shares what led him to pursue a master’s degree, how he balanced work and graduate school, and why systems engineering stood out among other paths. He offers practical insights on career growth, real-world application, and the value of thinking beyond individual tasks to see the bigger picture.

The conversation also explores how systems thinking prepares professionals for an AI-driven world—where tools are evolving quickly, but strong problem-solving and big-picture thinking remain essential.

Whether you’re considering graduate school or looking to advance your career, this episode offers a thoughtful look at what it means to build skills that last.

Learn more about UMBC’s Systems Engineering Graduate Program! 

https://professionalprograms.umbc.edu/systems-engineering/ms-systems-engineering/

Transcript

Dennise Cardona  00:00:00  
Hey. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of UMBC Mic'd Up podcast. My name is Dennise Cardona, your host, and I am here with Gordon Quach. He graduated from the systems engineering graduate program here at UMBC in 2025 Gordon, I'm so excited to have you on the show. How are you?

Gordon Quach  00:00:18  
Thanks so much, Dennise, it's a Friday, so I can't complain. We have good energy today. Dennise and retrievers are amazing. So, so honored to be part of this podcast, and hopefully we'll see more folks in the future.

Dennise Cardona  00:00:32  
Awesome. All right. Well, Gordon, what was going on in your career when you first decided, hey, I want to pursue a Masters in systems engineering.

Gordon Quach  00:00:45  
I think it was like back in 2021 so hopefully I'm not dating myself too much, but just imagine this, right, like I graduated from Virginia Tech, and interestingly enough, I studied a field called Industrial and Systems Engineering. In that field, it was more on diverse systems application, like, from a mindset perspective, but a lot of the trade you're learning in the manufacturing realm, statistics, human factors, like, just a really wide breadth of tools to solve problems. So coming from a program like Virginia Tech, I'm just like, I got this, like, the world is mine, like as alumni, we will do great things as an engineering professional. So at that time, I switched from strategy consulting back into a technical role. So around 2021 I was still early on in my career. Dennise and I was just like leading robot automation deployment across the factory. So I felt like, yeah, I can do this. It's definitely pretty good. But quickly, I was humbled by like, how much more to learn there is when it comes to structuring a mix of technical depth and the products we work in, but also, like, the structure of management. You need to make sure that any project management you're doing at a great scale like I was doing succeeds at that time. And I remember what I tried to do first was just take a step back Dennise and ask mentorship to, like, provide support. And the mentors I had were incredible at that time at Northrop, but a really cool theme persisted. I saw Northrop does hire a variety of folks at that time, and unfortunately, no longer with Northrop. I'm with Booz Allen. But at that time, I did notice a lot of folks came from UMBC, and I didn't think much about the program at first, or just even systems engineering, but I just knew, like, okay, like, first, that's great. Like, there's a lot of talent density as a retriever or the program. But then also I started reflecting that, yeah, like, maybe I should go back and get formal education and systems engineering. You know, like some of my colleagues, I was getting mentorship on. They either studied systems engineers in the undergrad program or they were professionally a systems engineer. And I love the mindset happy to, you know, go deeper into this, but I love the mix where it's broad enough, where you teach how to best manage and look at a portfolio of technology or projects. So you still have, like, the leadership side of things, but it's still a technical degree where I don't lose the grips of execution, right? Like people often talk about, like, oh, you go into management, or you become a very technical person. This was such a beautiful program, where it blends both. So that was kind of like all the myriads of thoughts back in my 2021 myself at that time.

Dennise Cardona  00:03:36  
That's amazing. Did you have any hesitation before enrolling? Because I know is my myself. When I first enrolled at a graduate program, for me, I was worried about a non traditional student older than most students at the time, and so that was my hesitation. Did you have any of those before, before enrolling?

Gordon Quach  00:03:55  
I'll say this like, I think, to your point, I think a common hesitation is like you may have reflected on Dennise and, like, other people too, it's just like, how do I carve out time to really get back into school? Like, am I ready for this? Like, should I wait for a better time? And I think the lesson that maybe we both resonate is that, like, there's never, like, a perfect time, like, it's always the right moment when you want to do it if that is the right time. And the second thing I'll share, too, is that I think it was very helpful having other colleagues pursue the degree. When you have a cohort, a community, it feels a lot more safe and also confident going that program. So to connect the dots, earlier, I mentioned how I had a lot of colleagues at UMBC at that time, I had a wonderful friend's colleague, Haley Kyle, and she actually started the program like a semester before I did. And as I was shopping around for other, you know, degrees just to get an idea of what's going on, she was sharing how like this program was great. There's a lot of professionals who are like attending. This degree while they're working, and there's more to share with that, but just hearing that made me feel a lot more confident that, hey, like this program has a pattern of of course, like having good talent coming out of it, but it also respects the like situation that most of us are in, and that was the greatest fear at first, like, I just graduated my undergrad, that was intense, and I feel a little bit burnt out. Am I ready to go back into it, spoiling the story? Like UMBC was a very good mix of like, I never felt really overwhelmed with the classes were challenging, to get me wrong, but work, life, balance, Professor, relationship, all superb. Dennise, on

Dennise Cardona  00:05:42  
that end, what made you choose, actually, systems engineering, as you know, as your degree, and what led you specifically to UMBC? Was it the you had mentioned a lot of the people that you worked with at Northrop Grove, and at the time, were UMBC? Were you looking at other places and you like, UMBC is the one I want to do. They have us. You know, systems engineering is a program that I want to do.

Gordon Quach  00:06:08  
Yeah, I'd say, like, there's probably two things that really gravitated me to UMBC as a school earlier. For example, why systems engineering? Just to double click on this more, it was the idea of, like, I think the there was three programs I was interested in just to develop my, you know, skill sets as professional. It was the you know, classic MBA that a lot of folks pursue. There was the systems engineering that saw my colleagues having. And then lastly, like, somewhat more of a technical leaning at that time, I was doing robotic deployments at Northrop, and a bit of like, data analytics. So I was struggling, like, should I do something with robotics or maybe something with data? So if you notice, like, right business leaning MBA, like systems. And then, of course, the more technical depth and the systems aspect came from. I saw that like at that time my career, I knew that I didn't want to go into the management track like that was way too early for me, but I still wanted to have an idea of, like, how to better see the solutions or projects I was managing. So the quick takeaway for the audience today is, like, obviously five year tenure plans always change. Just have an idea of how like the person you want to be, professionally or individually, and see if this program can help get you there. So having that mindset, Dennise, when I was thinking about the like, you know, shopping around for different schools, right? UMBC versus other schools like John Hopkins was one of them, too, in the Maryland area. I love two things about UMBC. First, like, when I thought more about systems, I think they're in cozy, accredited, which basically means that, like, they partner with the governing body of systems engineering, which is so cool. So when you graduate or complete, I think it was Professor Martin's course. It was like the first like intro course, you have enough experience to take some of the certs that a young professional would have to spend a year or two undertaking, which is an extreme advantage just UMBC itself. The second thing I look for this more of a personal take. I love learning more application than theory. And for example, when I was looking at I forgot it was Cornell or another systems program, some of the courses were more like theory, slash research based. And that is foundational by all means. It's engineering. But I loved how the professors at UMBC, if I recall correctly, every single one either owned their own company or practice in the field. So as a quick shout out, I thought it was like super humbling and impressive. One of my favorite professors, Frederick Highland, I believe his name was. He worked, yeah. Dennise, yeah, he worked in the United States Census program and maybe some of the shuttle program. It's that's surreal. Like, what a privilege to see that, right? I think as a student like you, you basically get to learn from the best. And, you know, simply put, two quick reasons why I chose UMBC. It was pretty much like, Let's go for it on that

Dennise Cardona  00:09:19  
point, I love that. What a great Oh, that's so fabulous that you said all of that. And Fred Hyland, he's wonderful. I've had him on, I've had him on a podcast here earlier as well. Nice to see. And yeah, it's and I love the applied. Like you said, the applied aspect of the programs here is rolling up the sleeves and doing the work as you are studying and learning from people in the field, applying everything that they are teaching you. So that's great. Now, we had talked a little bit about balancing work life balance, you brought that up, and it's such a big, I would say, deciding factor, and such a, I think, a stressor for some people when they're consider. In graduate school is, how am I going to balance all of this? So how did you manage to balance the work, the life the graduate school while you were doing the program?

Gordon Quach  00:10:09  
Yeah, um, I think the first thing just to like, you know, level, set and empathize with, like, the audience, right? Like, I think it's earlier I mentioned Dennise that it's important to, like, have a goal of the person you want to become, and if the program lines for you, additionally, you want to understand what chapter of your life you're in. So just speaking for myself, I was a young professional, not some responsibilities, of course, life responsibilities, but plain and simple, I didn't have a family, right? I was in in a difficult, super stressful career chapter in my life. I think it's as much as you want to be ambitious and pursue these educational goals, it's so important to just be very self aware of who, like who you are in the moment. And we talked about timing earlier too, like your time will come for this degree too. With all that being said, here were some of the work life time management strategies that really helped me out. Dennise, for me, I found I personally like being proactive, like I do freak out when it's all the way at the end, like near a deadline. So I did have colleagues where this worked for them, this first technique worked for them, where they would carve out every weekend to do school work, group projects, etc, and it worked for me. What I try to do first was, like, carve out time as much as I can each day, like, have a goal, like, I'm gonna spend 30 minutes on class work, or, like, studying, etc, every day. And it's just like, it just builds up accumulatively. And it's like, hey, for sure, you have your buff room where use a weekend to catch up if needed, but when you be proactive and be more intentional about, like the school time, it's very meaningful. And for example, it's like the classic where you don't have to actually be in, like a formal library room. You can be creative with, like how you want to study. So for example, sometimes we have to watch a lecture, like one of the lectures I took management, leadership and communication, if I'm not mistaken, but Charles was saying you have to watch a lot of, like, TED videos, or TED Talk videos, and, you know, put a discussion post. Those videos were long. So what I did was, like, when I was cooking dinner, or like, you know, like exercising, I would play that as like a podcast. So I think the work life balance is more of like harmony with your life, like what makes sense for you and you know, your current life chapter. But to be frank, like, I haven't found the program I was in too arduous where people can handle, like the balance again, the program, I think, was designed intentionally for working professionals. And the professors were very understanding, if you did communicate any situation like work, travel, I can make it to class today. Can I watch recording and stuff like that? So that's what helped for me.

Dennise Cardona  00:12:53  
Dennise, wonderful advice. Now in today's rapidly evolving AI driven world, how did the program help you prepare for what's coming ahead?

Gordon Quach  00:13:07  
I kind of laughed when you first said that, because every company, every topic, right? It's like AI, everything right, all jokes aside, I'd say I think there's like, two aspects that I learned from this degree that helped me prepare more for like the AI German world, and as we've seen, what the latest AI tool. So most of us are familiar with chat, GPT, Claude, copilot, Microsoft, you name it. They are extremely good at being a brainstorming tool, but also execution tool. So practically speaking, that means, like a lot of the hard skills we've done as a professional video editing, creating, images, data analysis, you name it, it's almost abstracted now, like AI, could basically do it at a speed or at a scale that humans just can't do as well. But the human advantage, or in this case, the system the UMBC Systems Engineering advantage, is it helps you think at a scale that's like the systems thinking. Basically, people who may have not had the systems mindset from this degree, when they challenge a program, they just think, like, oh, like, let me, if I'm doing data analysis, let me just throw in data and just call it a day, like, just do this, you know, do a task. In the end, when you take a concept or degree like systems engineering, you want to think about like the big picture. And that's like every single course, even electives, almost helps you think about like the big picture. So from a data analyst perspective, it's not just like, single frame of view where it's like, oh, like, here's the data. Solve it and call it a day. It's more okay from the system perspective. We're not just looking at like, the like analysis. We're thinking of like this analysis will support our business, which is like, in a sense, a system like people don't think about as. Systems, not like the technical like IT system or manufacturing system. It's like a lot of moving parts that makes a business henceforth a system. Now for like, when we use it with AI and with this degree mindset, it's more thinking of, okay, now that we have like, this analysis done correctly, how do we communicate it to other people? How do we make it like automated and stuff like that. You just think about like, all these little like pieces that makes the whole thing, like, even better. And that's why I really value about this degree. And I think that's an important mindset, being a systems thinker, thinking a big picture, thinking about flaws and risk, about what we're doing today. That's invaluable in the age of AI, of course, you learn the technical tools and the degree two. Dennise, but I think just that mindset makes you resilient to change, because you're like, Oh, this is just another tool. It's not gonna, like, take my identity. I'm my identity is a systems thinker and systems problem solver. Dennise, that's my take.

Dennise Cardona  00:15:56  
Yeah, systems problem solver is. It's interesting. A side note, I'm starting to study how to play chess for the first time in my life. It's all about thinking ahead and, you know, trying to see ahead of, you know what? What happens if I do this and do that and do this? And so that whole thinking mentality, that human aspect, bringing that human brain, the beautiful brains that we have, that beautiful brain activity, into what you're doing, and it's humans with AI, you know, so exactly I like to think of it that way.

Gordon Quach  00:16:27  
Yeah, exactly. And I think to your point too, right? It's like, whether it's like learning chess or anything else, like you are like a system within itself, like you have a complement of skills, a compliment of networks, like, literally, like people, networks, etc. It's like, how can you use AI to enhance your system, your life, your workflow, your hobbies, trusts and stuff like that.

Dennise Cardona  00:16:48  
Oh, oh, I love that. It's kind of exciting. I think it's very exciting what the future can hold. It's, you know, only time will tell, but it's if you I like, to take the position of embracing it, just going, going at it with a positive mentality and using it as a tool. That's it. It's our assistant.

Gordon Quach  00:17:10  
Now, on the chest note, all jokes aside, I hope at least that improves our ELO score, because, like, I get anxious about playing a game. Like, did I make the right move? But now, like again, like this, these tools can help, right, or train us to, like, see these moves ahead. But then, like, I mean, from another quick tidbit about, like, the UMBC courses, like, another one I love that I took as an elective. It was, I think it was like cyber security, privacy and law, from Professor, Adam lippy. He's a practicing like, you know, like professionals, so cool to have him, like, share the course and legal laws. But that the coolest part of this course, to your point, Dennise is like trying to be like technology optimist. And it was funny, because when, when we had our first assignment, the whole course is like, almost discussion based course. You read something, share thoughts, have a very academic discussion and, and that's why it's like, it's cool, because when I first started, I thought more about, Oh, yeah. Like, all these technologies are a risk to humanity. Like, I'm so nervous about, like, people getting hacked at, like a coffee shop, and, like, we need more strict laws to, you know, get and, like, same thing with AI. We've both seen like news where it's like our legal system and planning new regulation. There's like laws in place, there's more policies in place. But then I had classmates who, like, dissolve the world a bit differently, or solve this situation a bit differently, and it was just like, it's very true, like in any scenario, AI, etc, you'll see it as an optimist, a pessimist or neutral. And I think that's where, like, whether it's systems practitioners from the degree I had, or other people try to see in the best way, like, you know, positive and tense and so forth, because anything like technology touches or impact, like our lives too, in some way, so it's good to start with, like some type of optimistic mindset, at least

Dennise Cardona  00:19:06  
entering into a degree program, like I said, people are sometimes hesitant about that. They want to know, is this really worth it? For me? So in your experience, what kind of impact has a degree had on your career in the program, and then maybe even since graduating, I know you just graduated in 2025 Yeah, a new graduate. But has it had some impact on what you're doing, what you're doing day to day at this point?

Gordon Quach  00:19:35  
Yeah, I'd say the I'll get this one up front. A lot of people do the degrees for career growth. Like, when I say career growth, think of promotions I remembered at many companies that I worked with, especially like, I think at Booz Allen to they have this policy, but especially at Northrop and some of the like companies I worked at before, if you have a master's degree, that counts as two additional years of. Professional growth, which basically means that just getting a master's gives you two years. You basically get promoted faster, or like, the opportunity to get promoted faster. So instead of waiting five years, you just have to wait three years. Now it basically counts for two years, which is like such a nice part, considering you're most likely doing this degree in tandem with your career. Dennise, so that's helped me position myself for career growth opportunities when I work on that business case with my leadership. Dennise, just a plug there in general, with a degree program. The second thing that's helped me was tying back to a lot of the themes I shared. This degree also helped me also apply for different roles. For example, having the systems engineering and degree itself, I could apply for actual system engineering positions, architecture roles, because first, and a lot of the courses I had, we actually used, like software that's useful in the market. So for example, we use Matlab. We use this UMBC tool called Genesis, which is very similar to, I think, like cameo, and some of the other tools you'll see on the job requisition, etc. All to say, this is one of those degree programs like I mentioned earlier. It's a lot of practical application versus theory, so you're basically building your portfolio. So earlier talked about career advancement quicker, right? Acceleration. This degree also gives you the tools to put on your resume or project experiences to like, put on. And in fact, a lot of the projects I had Dennise and my courses, it was basically the entire semester we designed something. So for example, my capstone class, we designed my team and I, we designed a drone rescue system, and we had to, almost like, simulate everything we would have done, like, like talking to a hypothetical vendor to get, like drone parts, like creating the simulation, coding stuff out. It was kind of surreal, like being a real engineer in a degree program, right? I think the last piece too, was I would fully advocate, as y'all have heard throughout this podcast, that this degree program has really changed the way I look at problems and solve things. I know I try to no longer look at things as like they gave me an ask. I'm like, That's it, and stuff like that. But I think of like, how, like, the work I do impacts others, and how things are like being changed from what I've done too, because every single class and assignment relates to, like, the system mindset approach, and how, like, you know, different inputs creates, like, different outputs and stuff

Dennise Cardona  00:22:40  
like that. My final question is, looking back now, what does earning your systems engineering degree truly mean to you?

Gordon Quach  00:22:52  
For me, it's a proud moment. I think, like earlier, you had questions about, like, did I want to pursue this degree? What was like going on, the mindset and stuff like that. And it's a proud moment, because when I was sharing my story earlier, I was talking about how, like, you know, coming from undergrad, I felt like I could, you know, take on the world, like, solve these, like, amazing problems and stuff like that. And when I came out of this program, like looking back now, so like a official alumni, it's a very proud moment, because I can look back and say, first, I actually did learn something like, especially with the last question you asked about, what's the ROI essentially, like, I am surprised how much tools, how much different mindsets, how much like positive experiences have I had Within just a few years, like within this program, that will transform the way I look at my like next 20 so plus years in my career. It's also another problem known because earlier we talked about like, work life balance. And the reality is that getting any degree isn't an easy feat, because you still have to carve out time to pursue it. You. It's called a master's grace, and there you're mastering a craft, right? And I think that the fact that I was able to persisted within my with my colleagues and cohort was such a moment for myself and my colleagues as well, because we were able to learn something, but also still persist through the degree. Of course, at any point, I remember UMBC was actually very flexible about letting you take a pause in degree. Or, of course, if you don't feel like you're ready for it, you can either opt out for, I think, the certificate version of this degree, you know, subset of classes, and call it a day, or you can, you know, call, of course, call it cold turkey and just be happy with the experience you already got. But it was very cool to see, like a completion from start to end, just a very fulfilling moment in like a life chapter. Dennise, I am,

Dennise Cardona  00:24:54  
I'm so happy to hear that. Gordon, thanks so much for sharing your story with us today on the podcast. We really appreciate that, and thank you everyone for tuning into this episode of UMBC Mike dot podcast. If you'd like to learn more about our offerings, click the link in the description. Thank you so much, everyone you.