The Wicked Podcast

Steve McDermott: How to be a complete and utter f#ck up

May 04, 2021 [email protected] Episode 44
The Wicked Podcast
Steve McDermott: How to be a complete and utter f#ck up
Show Notes Transcript

We talk to Steve about approaching your career from possibly the opposite side of every other book on the planet. Hilarity and wisdom on a rollercoaster. Beware of the northern accent!

Author page: https://www.stevemcdermott.com/me/
Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Complete-Utter-Up-underachievement/dp/129234282X/

The Wicked Podcast:
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Music:
'Inspired' by Kevin MacLeod
Song: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3918-inspired
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Marcus Kirsch:

Welcome to the wicked podcast where we read the business books you don't have time for. I'm Marcus Kirsch. And I'm Troy Norcross, and we are your co hosts for the wicked podcast,

Troy Norcross:

duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, the duck. So, Marcus, we're gonna talk a lot about ducking today and docking up.

Marcus Kirsch:

And the mean yes and no. And yes. So today we're talking to Steve McDermott, such a lovely chap, about his book, which is not under third, third time released, called How to be a complete and utter EFF, up 47 and a half steps to lasting under achievement, which is quite a title. Yeah, what were your impressions and takeaways and actions? And he gave us a lot. And definitely

Troy Norcross:

I think I spoke for approximately three minutes of the entire interview, because I think he really had a lot to share and, and a lot to say, and, you know, putting more humour into our podcasts was a good takeaway for us. So I think that's, that's a good takeaway that we need to kind of look at Don't be so serious all the time. In the book itself, I've always talked about smart goals. He actually makes it smart. And he had one extra thing. What is the specific way that you know, when you've achieved the goal at the end? I was like, yeah, that's, that's a nice add on. That's a nice add on. And he isn't deed very much a man from Yorkshire. And so if you're having trouble when you need subtitles, we can worry about subtitles later. But you must watch the video about Yorkshire airlines on YouTube and flying an Alan Bennett class. So those are my big takeaways. What about you?

Marcus Kirsch:

Yeah, well, um, for me, it's a few things, there's a lot of context, apart from the fact that he ran a marathon, I ran a marathon and nothing happened, and we just dealt with it, we did something else. And it's just really nice attitude of saying, you know, don't ever be perfect, what are you going to do? Are you going to be someone, you're going to do your best job. And there you go, it will be a mess, it will not be pretty, there's no such thing as perfect, which he didn't say, but essentially, is what he aligned to. And so apart from personally relating to that, I like the fact that the positioning and the viewpoint he took on literally everything in this kind of anti pattern of things, not saying how to be seven successful habits of whatnot. And we talked a bit about those kind of self help things, or self motivation things, just to turn it the other way around. is not just a selling gimmick. There's obviously we know, we both know, there's there's a massive theme of failing and failing fast and all of this, which often or less often that we might want to actually happens in organisations. So therefore, the idea of failure is great. We should talk more about it, if you write a whole book from the position of someone who's failing. I think that's a great starting point. And a really good anti thesis to a lot of business books are out there also all talk about winning and success and exponential growth. And all of this stuff, which only taught tells one story and only looks at it from one particular language perspective. I find it a times utterly doll. I'm really looking forward. By the way, I think in two weeks time, we're going to have a really great conversation with an Olympian was going to tell us all about why winning is such a bad concept, which will be very interesting conversation. So this book feels very related, where you go, hang on a second, why we're not trying this, from a different point of view, we're still doing the same stuff. But let's look at it from a different character's point of view. And I found that just so energising and so fresh.

Troy Norcross:

And his book was indeed, aimed at a younger generation of workers that he wants to reach. He wants to give them core understanding, in a book that most people buy to put on the back of the toilet. But when they start reading it, they realise there may be actually some decent stuff in there. But before we talk any more about ducklings or toilets or anything else? Why don't we do something like I don't know. Go to the interview.

Marcus Kirsch:

Really? You sure now why Let's stay here for another hour. Yeah, let's go to interview Hello everyone. Today we have Steve McDonald with us. Hello, Steve, welcome to the podcast. And thanks for being with us.

Steve McDermott:

Hey jaquess we're saying Yorkshire in the north of England.

Marcus Kirsch:

Okay, so basically, as we always do we start at the top, which means that please tell us our listeners a little bit, who you are and why you wrote the book

Steve McDermott:

was severed from the north of England. I've been a professional motivational speaker for 27 years this year. And normally, you've probably all been to memories to other events, fellas do remember with real people in real rooms

Marcus Kirsch:

either. Yeah.

Steve McDermott:

Well that I've dropped the word so I normally got the slot after lunch, right? When ask you curse if the name after lunch at an event or a conference have the name? Does it have a name?

Unknown:

I know.

Steve McDermott:

People from America wherever. So I've noticed rust book in America call it naptime in in Europe and in the UK. And they call it the graveyard slots. Right? Right. So down the I'm booked because the Godzilla by death by PowerPoint all morning, can you come and wake him up? So I've done that for 27 years, right? Come and walk people past the lodge. So we might be waking some people up now you know what they're doing? Right? And whenever not been doing that, I've been teaching other people how to do that with my company, the confident called right, which is all about presentation mastery. But before all that I was the creative director of an advertising agency. So that might be a long story about how you go from being a creative director of an advertising agency to being an award winning motivational speaker book. We've got time for that.

Marcus Kirsch:

No, we do that we do we do. We

Troy Norcross:

want one like this particular book.

Steve McDermott:

Right. So it dies out for being creative director to motivational speaker because I only became across the whole topic of another menu that offers you bad personal development in 1990. Right? When I was What 36? I guess I'll never come across it before. And so I don't have any personal development books you've read? Or what your favourite would be. Marcus, what's your favourite personal development book of all time?

Marcus Kirsch:

I don't think I've ever read one because there's a running gag about either personal development or self help baliga the second, you can help yourself to find the book. You're already on track or something like that.

Steve McDermott:

But you've tried, we haven't read a personal development book.

Troy Norcross:

Back in the day, just listen to cassette tapes of Tony Robbins.

Steve McDermott:

There you go. So most people if you've read one will have probably read. Awaken the giant within I think it is right. She's massive. I first went on my first personal development course. Dale Carnegie. Who wrote the book. Well, it was originally called How to stay married. Have you read that book? No, no. interested in how to stem I obviously

Unknown:

didn't.

Steve McDermott:

Okay. Another podcast right upstairs. Nobody was interested in that. Because I may not be part of a title of a book, right? He changed the title from how to stay married. That's always change to How to Win Friends and Influence People. Have you read that book? Yes, no. So I went on the Dale Carnegie course, which is a franchise, can you have a great model, which is if you're quite good at talking, which you might have noticed, that's kind of one of my things on my school report said Steve won't get very far. He keeps talking in class all the time. That's what I do for a living. But anyway, is no personnel out right? Find your purpose. And Carnegie have this role. If you're any good, the guy can come back and help out, you know, from bucket room, especially as a role model. And I thought I love this stuff. As creative director, I went back and started teaching it to my guys. And it got results, right? So whether that was presenting, or time money, like all the topics, leadership, Carnegie cover all these modules, right. And then one day, a guy who worked Carnegie said I'm starting our training coming out me out every Wednesday, so became a hobby, right? teaching these classic things around personal development. So if you've never read a book, what is personal development? And you know, kind of might be a contradiction in terms, this kind of working on yourself, right? work on yourself first, right? That you're not the gun deal that most people leave school than your finished daughter. Right? So all sorts of range of if you're what you might call modules. And this is when you're coming out out and I did it became a hobby and then One day said this thing, this is what changed my life really said, by this time I'm delivering a 14 week course on a Wednesday night, right? And he's just coming and giving the certificates out at the end. And afterwards Romans drink in the bar when used to drink. And they said, I've been thinking, Steve, and what we're thinking is you should come and work for me. Well, that'd be like, if your hobby was golf, somebody said to your wife, if you fancy playing golf for a living, it wasn't like I hated my other job. Correct. It's not an advertising agency is its most fun you can have with your claws on it. Right? So this is advertise if you've seen madman received the series madman? Well, we were as we were, like, the documentary version of that, right? So 98 is in the UK. So it was great, right? So what my day job and literally I did epiphany of every one of those lightbulb moment because I just dismissed him. I've actually said, Come on work for me doing like training, you know, does a stop ridiculous. And then about two weeks later, I had to pull the car over because of a fully formed business plan dropped into my head. And it was a don't have to work for you. But I could work for me. And I could train people. What I've realised I've been training my people in right, I could have my own training company. And the thing about advertising, it's a bit like a lot of nice things. Everybody knows everybody. So I went in and resigned that day. I sprayed me with the empty and I said I'm resigning, which of our rivals is poached, you know, we've been heading into we know about the study. I use the word epiphany because I'm from Yorkshire, right? I've heard this idea to start a business. And I've just done some numbers on the back of a of an envelope, right? Because obviously at the massive mortgage, I had two kids foreign to at the time. My wife was a full time mom, right? health care, BMW, all that, right? Like, I'm gonna pay bills. And I said, No, I'm stepping on Shirley coupe. But the thing is, I don't have any clients. Will you be my first client? The people I work for, right? Anyway? Yeah. And is there a one to 12 month contracts? In Wait, yeah. I don't want this much money just to pay bills, right? I said, I need to do a needs analysis. Because by now I realised that I knew a lot about training, I didn't realise that become a trainer. Because I've been I've been, if you like, adapted, stolen, the not stolen, adapted the Carnegie model like that they knew what they were doing. And because I've been with this other guy been writing the programmes, you know, the triple we can he gets the franchise. And the goal, whatever you do in Mexico, you've got to do in, you know, Madrid, and that's great. But the Spanish in the different, right. So and you know that as consultants and trainers that you need to be a proper to your audience. So because I was writing my own stuff, it was appropriate to UK clients, right. But this was the convincing, you know, you need to convince her in life. He said to me, I'll do all that. I'll give you a 12 month contract. I'm thinking, wow. Right. He said, and we'll be your first client, but you're not allowed to work for any of our rivals, or their advertising agencies for six months. And I thought, why would they say that? I think what I'm gonna do will be great. So that's how we got started under sort of leadership training, personal development real. And then I move from that to motivational speak, because clients get said to me, You know, when people they have a need, and there's a want, you know, the difference between a need and a want. So, you know, you, you know what they need, they want somewhere else, please like, nope, we need this boy. Great thing was once I started working, so at this niche, I was working for advertising agencies, I knew that world, right, then PR companies broadcast and it's, and the great thing is they all had clients, what's the best way to get business? refer referrals? anybody listening referrals? can see his right referrals? Well, don't you? Correct, right? Say, but listen to this, if you've been struggling for business, you know, in the last 12 months, whatever, hopefully, you realise that what you should be doing is approaching existing clients and telling you know, who else do you know, it's obvious. And I think we all have a referral system, right? So I take it a lot this business from these agencies, from their close blue chip clients, like really good clients, you know, we could name them but we were so nice, great work, but of course, see people and the goal is all your stuff bespoked in like in house, and, you know, knees analysis and all that, and I'm going Yes. And then when we're done, we have a course that they can go on, can we just send them on the course and when we don't have courses, and I kept getting asked this, you know, so I knew what they needed, but what the one it was a course. So I designed the course in 19. My first class several I was not in that before, right? And I and I run it I thought because I'm from create, you know, creative background. You don't want to do it in a hotel room. Talk about how people learn props during this podcast and a lot about you when I'm sitting in a hotel, I'm not in the best learning state. Right? So I thought I'm going to be talking about things like good values and purpose. Why don't we hold it on a bought? So did my first ever workshop on the canal bolts. So if you're not familiar with a canal board, as you know, a narrow board, like if you go to Amsterdam, right? We're not. One of the things that's in my book is that we may touch on this is the importance of goals. And I think the only the only thing I would say about goals is you've got a massive reason why. That's the main thing about a goal. You've got a massive reason why and when. And you don't always have the house. Right? So I've been talking about on the first debit workshop on this canal bought back in 1984. I'm stood at the front of the report going so you've got other big reason why to achieve a goal, right? You gotta have a win. And I've heard the phrase hosted by your own petard. Have you ever heard that phrase? French? Yes. That's where you get caught out with your own advice. If you've never heard the phrase hosted by your own petard go look it up, right. But anyway, somebody on the workshop said, when is part two? I do nine hours of my best stuff. From worship so much if you've used all your material, and the go, we want Part Two? I don't know. I don't know what it is. And then went well. You said have you got a big reason why to do apart. So anyway. Yeah. Right. Okay. So you've got good grades. And when they're coaching, it's great. When your delegates course you don't you think that's when they've learned what you've taught? Yes. So they went, when is it then Steve? So it kind of got me diary out. This is workshop one we're doing we're doing an open workshop, sushi people from all different companies. So we're doing 10 bots, right? It's going to be in December, December 3, right? Okay. Dinner, where it's gonna be. And I didn't know what the content was going to be either. And that's how I got started. And we could cover story show, we did do a part two, at the part two, a guy just started a new business called speakers for business, right? This is Nike, Nike, force five, some like that speaking agency, or bureau if you've if you know how people book speakers for events, and he said, kind of be your agents. And I will that work, I'll find you the gigs outside are all the admin live plans, all that you just turn up and talk for 45 minutes. So that's how I got started. And then the next thing you said was you need to book which comes to the book, right? So the first edition, the book came out in 2002. And it had a slightly different title, then it was called

Troy Norcross:

how it was almost 20 years ago,

Steve McDermott:

20 years ago, the first edition was 20, almost 20 years ago, to write. Or, to be more accurate. The first edition first edition came out in 2001. But that was self published. So if anybody's listening to this and want to write a book, here's how you do it. Right? All publishers are interested in your self published, right. But I think going with an existing publisher is a good way to go. Because you can get to a bigger market, right? Here's how you get your book published, prove to them that they're gonna get there and prove to them they're going to get there. And it won't, by the way, if you read a business book, you won't be able to get lunch, but it will be a few $1,000 euros, whatever, right? Well, because I self published I'll sell 1000 least copies at the back of the room is no brainer. So the very first edition came out in which 39 and a half steps then came out in 2001, the proper one for like 2002. Then there's a second edition and the very latest one came out at the back end of last year. It was meant to come out last June in all in the UK and all wh Smiths in the UK when the big retailers into if it goes through the airports ether or you know, the travel outlets they love the bookshop says be launched there in June last year being probably not a none of them were open, we might talk about how you deal with challenges. So that's that's the Genesis the book and all that's in the book is all the things I taught on those workshops or what I talk about on stage really the world of personal development. But if I was to sew it up, it's personal development for people with a sense of humour. particularly young people, you might you might notice we've changed the title to something a bit more. Some people might say controversial, I don't know where you bought it on that with the title of the book, because it uses what some people might call ality or a swear words. And, and I've had mixed reactions to that. I believe that most people are going to read my book had already read it, you know, in the world of business. When it came, it's been around 20 years right? So I want you to reach in younger Younger market and this new title and the book, remember came out before the coronavirus pandemic. So we didn't just kind of like, oh, we'll change it. Because we're all in this situation. We're all where we're at. But I wanted to reach maybe 20 to 30 year olds, who I noticed haven't been exposed to these, these powerful ideas around personal development ever before. stuff that you're familiar with stuff you talk about in your podcasts, purpose, values, vision, stuff, that there's a currency in business we all talk about. And I've worked with some big corporate clients, and they all talk about this stuff. But my kids don't I've got, by the way, you know, when I resigned, I was so excited. I didn't tell my wife. I had to regroup and go, Oh, but I've resigned today, and she will What? Anyway, since then, we've got three kids when I said case I've got if you've got kids, fellows, but mine are 3028 and 25. Now, right? And what's been delightful, my daughter, Megan, move back, she was in New Zealand when the pandemic state 55 hour flight home right, moved back in with those. That was, that was an interesting experience having not lived with us for five years, can you imagine right? jobless. And, and so decided second job tested and the students you know, sibling could go home for Christmas. So she was did a part time job, but sticking things up people's noses and back of the throats and stuff. The book had just come out. So she took what a delight that she took a dad's book to work. And she was really no work. And people are going, is that a real book with that title? So there's two things. So the reason why I wrote the book is to reach young people. And also because I'm from advertising, how do you stand out in a crowded marketplace, right? Because the number one thing is get your book in people's hands. So the reader is an author, I want you to read it. But also I don't want to preach. So you mentioned a particular motivational speaker, he was quite tall, right. But he's typical of a breed. They're all what I would call rah, rah. And it's a bit like a religion. And I think what turns people off from personal development is do it my way or the highway. There's only one way. Whereas My view is, look, I'm not here to give you advice. I just have an opinion. But I've used these things in my own life. And I've seen big corporate organisations use these things. And they just work. And people usually buy my book as a joke, and keep it in the downstairs toilet. All right, and then they start reading to go hang on a minute. There's some good stuff in here. And because it's presented in a reverse psychology way. So again, if you're not happy with the book, happy tipping the book starts with the word daunt. And so you know about reverse psychology. Yes, are small children. I remember when my daughter making there's now 25. And she was like two, and she'd come into a room with a big glass of milk. And being adults, we focus on what could go wrong, rather than what could go go right? Don't wait, what do we always say? Don't drop the meal, don't spill the glass. And what did the middle he do? Right? Because he can't process in the negative in your unconscious mind. Right? So I knew that we're not very simple reverse psychology when I'm telling people, because obviously, it's the book about how to be more successful, rather than book with a sense of humour. And that meant I could very much tongue in cheek, Kelly, tell people often metaphorically slap them about the face about how lousy their lives were. And that will continue to be the following my advice?

Marcus Kirsch:

I think I think that it's like, sorry, just to jump in here. But I mean, yeah. There's something about the title of the book. And, and I think I looked at one of your videos and things like that. And it's just it's obviously very compelling. It's very different. And I'm less surprised Now, having worked myself in advertising for a couple of years, that you come from black background, because Yeah, that makes perfect sense to then go out like that. And I think it's brilliant. Because, you know, we're now we know, all 40 oxen, and it can be a bit dry. And it can be a bit theoretical. And I remember I remember a few years back, someone, Managing Director at a massive telco making exactly the same point ago, you know, everyone's tired of this kind of dry consulting, business, whatever thing coming into the building going, Hey, here's another PowerPoint. And they basically hired us in as well because we had a bit of theatre, you know, pitch theatre and other things going on. And I think that's generally quite, it's great because, you know, when I want to take life or their job, too seriously, I think at this point, but the other thing is then and I think that's, that's more One of the reasons why we sort of got in contact with you is that given given given the, you know, the anti pattern that you put in there you go, like, you know, let's be a backup instead. You know, let's look at it from a failure perspective. And actually, so so that shifts the context as much as it says, hang on a second, Why managament? looking at the same thing, from a different perspective, it's brilliant. What do you say then therefore, because the other thing is also that as much as that shakes things up a little bit, and obviously gets the right kind of attention and picks up on things we should pick up on a little bit more. The other thing and one of the themes we see in a lot is this whole thing where so many business books talk about failure, a lot of fail fast and do this, and hey, it's all fun, whatever. But then they describe in a very boring way. And in a very kind of, you know, you read you read three pages in and you get to the point like, actually, no one wants to to fail. No one wants to be chilled out. No one wants to be like, hey, let's try a couple of things and see what sticks. Like no one wants that. I'm literally just coming out of a project where before you know it, it's like, yeah, we're trying things here. Like, no, you're all about delivery, just pushing and cutting corners, to just deliver more of the same as fast as you can. You don't take time to step back. potential to fail. Look at yourself, are you bringing yourselves in? And actually don't take yourself too seriously. So somebody has a question here, which probably, so the failure aspect, don't laugh try. So the failure aspect.

Steve McDermott:

What you need to do is go we charge five pound a word when people call in our workshop, my friends, so that's costing you a lot euros.

Marcus Kirsch:

Okay, well, I don't have a jar. Yeah. jars for different things. Not for that. But essentially, so failure is a great concept, I think, because as much as you can be scared of it. I think your book doesn't make people scared of it. And I think failure in organisations is dearly needed. And people shouldn't be scared of it. Is there a way to bring these things together?

Steve McDermott:

So yeah. If I could, if you don't mind if I was to paraphrase. Let's talk about let's talk about the whole topic of docking or of failure. Right. Let's talk about that. Because it's the it goes from my book trailer. It's quite interesting. I just have a sensor now. You both know, and you could probably going to tell me off now. So now they actually see Stephen, the science tells us that that model is no longer correct. But left and right brain. Left and right brain theory, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, it's a modelling but I think we can use it for this conversation on failure, I think, really, and how to deal with it. So logical, being simplistic and being from Yorkshire logical, left, right, emotional, and all that, right. And I think the thing is, with failure is, first of all, people don't own it. And it makes you feel bad. Right? So so you're quite right. When you say when people say all you need to go out, and all these books, go fail and fail more often and fail quicker. And all that agreeable. everybody forgets, it can be quite painful, right? So and the other thing I sense about both of you, I've been listed, listen to previous episodes, which I recommend people do is you're quite analytical. I think you will have quite a bit left brain and you cannot analyse it. Yeah. And you want the science and all that. I can't give you any science on this guy's right. All my stuff's anecdotal. 1000s of people have read my book and told me the like it. That's as much evidence as I've got, right. So go suck on that, right. But what I do know is all the people have read, if you look in the back of the book, for the first time in the third edition, I've got a copy, man. Now, there's an index. And somebody else who's talking to me about itself looked at the index, Dave, and I looked at what's the number one topic in your book? Because 47 and a half steps in this book, right? And they said the book, there's a theme that runs through it all I said, in light in May, because I wish I knew I wrote it right there when it's all about belief. If If there's one thing this book about, it's about knowing, right? And one of the things I learn in all this journey about personal development is this. Successful people if you want to hear that word, or high performers are happy, or whatever word you want to pick, have different beliefs to most people. And that's what I talk about. And the number one beliefs that enables you to deal with failure is to realise that yes, you're going to Phil by British soccer. And the model I always use I use are you into sci fi, either of you, or do you like science fiction?

Troy Norcross:

When I was a kid, I used to read a lot of sci fi

Steve McDermott:

okay. So, you know, when I think about sci fi I think about Star Trek really and I'm, I'm a bit older than you so I when I think of Star Trek, I think about the original sit TV series, you know, with Leonard Nimoy and William Shatner Ryan, first quality this year old I am first colour TV we call a TV programme ever saw was statuary, right red uniforms. But there was always an episode in a typical Star Trek series where to get attacked by the Klingons out there and they're all falling afoul and Kirk's getting all emotional is getting all emotional and right brained about it. Right. But not Spock, Spock see what I call the Spock stet is just stood like this. And he's going, how fascinating. And that's how you deal with failure, right? That's how you deal with failure. You step back and you go, this shit has hit the fan, right? It's all God. Look what's happened in last 12 months. And what you've got to have that emotional maturity, if you like to go, this is quite painful, but I can step back and learn from it. But if you still stay emotionally keep the hurt and the pain, you don't get the learning. And that's what I apply to everything from my business to my running, you know, to everything. That's what I do. And that's how you learn. And that's the main theme in the book, you know, it's okay to fail. You should see chapters shouldn't search out failure. But recognise, particularly right now, none of us know. Literally, none of us know. Let me ask you a question. Before we started recording. I asked you how long you've been doing this podcasting? And you can I think you said about a year Dean? Yes, my cousin. And Troy. Yeah. Are you better right now than you were when you started?

Troy Norcross:

Well, rambles a lot, but But otherwise, we're much better.

Marcus Kirsch:

Yeah, no. rambling, but you know, lighting is better. Yeah.

Steve McDermott:

Everything Yeah, exactly. Right. Do you think it could get better in the future to what it is now? Yes, yeah. So there they are. There's your business model and doom, whether it's a podcast or your life or your business, it's as simple as that. But if you started beating yourself up, big time. You know, I bet if you listen back to Episode One, the big things if I can't believe we did that saw. And here's the other message. Yeah. And so the message, I will say to everybody, as well. And I know, it's tough, because everybody goes, we're in it together. And that's and this is sort of the expression that's bollocks. We're not all in it together. Right? We're not we're all having very different experiences at MoMA, right? And so for some people, these messages what, what be appropriate, but for those of us who are perhaps having a little bit is their numbers, there's never been a better time. Right? Then to go. How fascinating because nobody knows, nobody can come on this podcast and tell you the nor you don't know, that's interviewing me. I don't know, we're in no position to give anybody advice at all, all came out, did an opinion bought, I think my clients, our audiences, our readers, our listeners, are more open to letting it go and go, and that's fine. That's okay. I don't I don't expect perfect, just type adore expected respond, because we're all living in a world of uncertainty. But please go and do something, you know, do something, if that didn't work, try something else if that didn't work, do something else. So I think customers, clients, our colleagues, our teams, are all more a bit more forgiving to God, you know, we're all we're all sort of in this together, including the leaders. You know, I think a lot of people, the number one belief, I think that I identified when I was, you know, in 1990, from kinda again, going onwards and all the classic sort of self development and then working with these great clients and stuff. The number one belief, I think we all need to have as well as it's okay to fail and feel a bit upset, but learn from it is this taking responsibility? making yourself responsible and I think that is the hardest belief that leaders and teams and people have had in the last few months is to go It's not my fault. And because it's not my fault, there's nothing about it. Right? I'm a victim of this. And that's the challenge and it's been this has been the hardest challenge of all, I think, to stay consistent with the belief of But listen, you need to make yourself accountable in responsible for how you feel and for all your results, because otherwise you're powerless to do anything. Right. And that's about you know, I did, I was familiar with the Edinburgh Fringe have ever come across the Edinburgh Fringe in in Edinburgh in Scotland. We'll move on festival. So last year, I had three, three life goals. One was my third edition, my book coming out. The other was running in the London Marathon, which would have been my second only marathon. You've probably noticed that didn't happen. So as an alternative to that I ran 100. Yep. I run 105 half laps in my local running track on my own. And I used that by having the right cannibalise. Right. I was mainly performing a one man show Edinburgh through all of August, that didn't happen either. So I performed that show every night on zoom 20, some 26 concept, it's called the 26.2. Sure, because how long is a marathon? 26.2. I've been a professional speaker 26 years to date. 26.2 minutes, right. I perform that every night on zoom, we're often your resume. Do you think it was perfect every night? Was it short? Right? Do you think I learned a lot by doing that? Yeah. It was the audience quite forgiving. Yes. But I had the belief that I need to do something I could just sit feeling sorry for myself is the irony. I had more stage space here. In my office at home, then I would have had in the venue in Edinburgh, which is a tiny little room in a pub downstairs. Right? So it was better in some ways, and reached a bigger audience. But now so nobody knows. So you got to have the right beliefs. And I think to master beliefs are there's no such thing as failure. There's just fascinating. And you've got to make yourself responsible for how you feel and all your results. And not look for soft stuff

Marcus Kirsch:

is really interesting. Because given. Yeah, I think is interesting when when I think if you're talking about personal private space, that's that. And you know, and obviously what? Well, for me, and I think Troy mentioned that in an email before, you know, I did the same last year, I trained for the Paris marathon, which happened neither, you know, and all the way up to the running. Eventually, there was a bunch of people on Facebook, when they shut down. Firstly, shut down the marathons like we're still going to travel to Paris, and we're still going to run this can be five of us, and we're just gonna run through Paris, then the next day, how can they shut down the flights and they were like, well, it's still gonna be fine. So we're going to run through London, some of them literally up to the night before, there was one guy left, potentially running with me Never had run with anyone else. So and on the day, first of April, I ran somewhere through London, for just under five hours, and I had the most fun of my life. Because no one knew what I was doing. They had no context. And it was a weird little thing. But it's exactly that i did it i finished achieved my goal. It was very interesting. Probably different, very different, but probably more interesting experience not doing in Paris, where were 20,000 other people would have run it. Me being it's hilarious, right? So but when I translate that back into then the work life, that on a podcast, we talk a lot about this, this thing where Yes, person was a bit responsibility is great. The thing is, your workspace or your workplace doesn't always give you that, you know, there's a lot often where leadership says, Well, we want innovation, we want you to drive, we want you to be self organised and blah, and then they give you nothing to run this on. And, you know, again, too many of my consultancy experiences being often about that where leadership is failing, or unable or unwilling to let people be their best self, which is a massive mess of a massive trick. What would you say? How you're booking ideas that would contribute into someone's personal approach to you know, what, what am I getting up four in the morning? I have my own values and own responsibilities that I feel. You know, how can I How can I manage around that context when the context isn't welcoming at times for the best of me?

Steve McDermott:

Well, I'll go back to my daughter. I think you're right. I think what we'll say about those situations is and again, this challenging because people you know, do get stuck in this alliance from your previous podcast, you talked about purpose and God, but often companies you know, they're not driven because it's about profit and all that. While we're says if you hate your job, you know, run away from it, like you'd run away from a burning house is what I would say, right? And what it's saying you might not want to do that straight away. So don't work for that company. But I had a really interesting face back to my daughter I so she comes back from New Zealand. And quickly because you know, it's really hard if you've got if you've got kids, but coaching your own kids is a real challenge. Right? Especially this release is sorts. So in a way what's great about the bookcase, she was reading it as a joke, and then it was kind of she was kind of picking stuff up from it, right? Anyway, she took responsibility, started looking for jobs. He's got to job offers two job offers. And she's going, I don't know which today. And she ended up taking the warm, because she thought about this that that matched most match what we would call her values. But what was most important to her, and it worked out a trade. And they were both good job offers, in fact, one, you know, most young people again, so I'm keen to reach younger readers, most when I do presentations, whether I might do some work in skills, wherever, because it's nice to give some back. And you might have done this young people typically when at the end, any questions about you know, your role and what we do as trainers or speakers or authors, and then nearly always young, very young people sort of under 18? They always go, oh, Mister, mister, how much do you earn? How much do you earn doing now? How much money do you make? And what can you drive and they kind of just focus on the money doctor and our values change over time. But what I do know is, you know, if you're going to live, if you're going to look back on your life, sat on a park bench when the Navy and gunner made a difference, you know, it was probably centred around the amount of money he made, will it I think if anybody's learned, oh, in this, I hope you find in this podcast join us, right? Well, I assume you do. Because you won't be sitting wherever you sat now doing it right. And same here. Right. And so tell us your question, I think, don't do a job here. Because life's too short. If you want to look back, you know, you'll know all the research, because I know you like to research. Wherever research you read. What do people do? Not what they don't regret what they did? Did they regret what they didn't do? Right? So so you know, what do you want? Let your grandchildren say about the life you read, and the difference you made? It did you have a good time, you know, and a lot of people suddenly we've lost

Unknown:

1000s millions

Steve McDermott:

and millions of people the last few months, whatever. And I think all of us are questioning why we were poor, if you want to be a deep and profound and you know, if I'm going to go to work, I want to go deep Smith that makes the difference. And I feel joyous about and I don't forget our work. So my daughter used that compass of true north, you know, I want to make a difference. I want to be a live the things that are most important to me. It says my values. And I think that is the secret. And I think all the clients I work with are nailed that, and then managed to align with best accounting is not always a total fit. But there's a big overlap between their teams, what's important to the individual and what's important to the organisation. And when those two things match or overlap. Nobody has a problem getting out of bed. Nobody has a problem being motivated. Nobody has a problem chasing down those big hairy audacious goals because they are aligned. Right. But it's that hard to get. You know, so

Troy Norcross:

I've got I got two things to say. Yeah. Rule 42 says don't sweat the small stuff. Yeah, rule 42 A says it's all small stuff. And so when you start putting things like, you know, failure into context like that, it makes sense. And putting the real priority around goals and values. And I think that that's absolutely a winner. The other thing is you started this whole thing before we started recording. We're not laughing enough. We're way too serious. I cannot listen to you for another minute without telling you about Yorkshire airlines. a YouTube video about Yorkshire airlines. We take off, we fly around, we land back where we started, because why would you go anywhere else? And they've got Alan Bennett class. You know, they've got the trolley, you know, with the carvery on it, you know, and it is absolutely it's short, but it's hysterically, hysterically funny. And on that note, we are out of time. It's been an absolute joy, but we're gonna have to wrap We hope you've had as much fun as we have.

Steve McDermott:

Well, as we're saying, yaksha I'll see there.

Marcus Kirsch:

Thank you, Steve. Thank you so much. My pleasure, guys.

Troy Norcross:

You've been listening to the wicked podcast with co host Marcus Kirsch and me Troy Norcross.

Marcus Kirsch:

Please subscribe on podomatic, iTunes or Spotify. You can find all relevant links in the show notes. Please tell us your thoughts in the comment section and let us know about any books for future episodes.

Troy Norcross:

You can also get in touch with us directly on Twitter on at wicked and beyond or at Troy underscore Norcross, also learn more about the wicked company book and the wicked company project at wicked company.com