Annette Benedetti [00:00:43]:

Today's Locker Room Talk topic is naked Seduction, the innovators of sex work then and now. Now, if you have tuned in for any amount of time at all, you guys know that I champion sex workers as being vital to the women's sexual empowerment movement and the intersectional feminist movement. And today is actually a really big treat for me and for you listener, because we are going to have an opportunity to meet and see if you want to head over to my YouTube channel at Annette Benedetti, some of the innovators of the sex work and sexual empowerment movement. I'm talking the first public strippers, topless performers, erotic performers, those folks. So you might be wondering how the fuck I'm going to make that happen. Well, my guest today is Ricky Blakesberg. She is a curator and a photo archivist who primarily works with collections from the. She just held an exhibit in New York City featuring the work of Elizabeth Sunflower, who was a prolific photojournalist based in San Francisco in the Ish, she can verify and she documented the North Beach strip club culture. Now, I've gotten a chance to kind of check this out and learn about it, and it is fascinating and exciting. But before we jump into that and I give you all an opportunity to both meet and see these individuals, I want Ricky for you to take a moment just to tell my listeners about who you are and what you do. Of course.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:02:32]:

Thank you, Annette. Hi, I'm Ricky Blakesberg, and I'm so excited to be on locker room talking shots. And yeah, I am a curator based out of New York City currently. And like Annette said, I primarily work with archives, photo archives from the. Specifically, as of late, I've been trying to focus more on feminist movements and finding archives that highlight feminist movements from the because I think there's so much that parallels to what's happening in our society today. So finding those parallels and highlighting them has become very important to me in my curatorial work. So I'm really excited to explore a little bit more about this on today's episode and dig deep into the world of what naked seduction means then and now.

Annette Benedetti [00:03:29]:

Certainly I think, listeners, as we go along, you're going to see how what was happening in the has been so important and similar. Unfortunately, when people say we're going backward, I think you're going to be able to see this. And the only way that we can see this and start to change it is by looking at the past. And this honestly is something I don't know much of anything about. So I'm excited that there's someone here today to illuminate all of us. This is a 09:00 in the morning recording, which I just want you to know. Ricky getting me out of bed. I got up at six fucking a. M. Just to study up and be prepared for you. Ricky is 3 hours ahead of me. So I was like it's a lot. This is how excited I am about it. So I'm having coffee out of my finger bang mug. Finger bang. Portland. They do nails and what are you I know, I've actually been there. Yeah. I've never had my nails done there, but well, I like the topic.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:04:35]:

Can you see it? I'm doing topacico topaco.

Annette Benedetti [00:04:39]:

Now. What is that?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:04:40]:

It's like a bubbly water. But I just really like the branding. Of course you can't see because I have like the blur behind me.

Annette Benedetti [00:04:46]:

You have the blur behind you. Topacico, folks. So cheers. Let's talk about sex.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:04:51]:

Let's talk about sex.

Annette Benedetti [00:04:52]:

Let's talk about sex. My favorite topic. I want to let listeners know also as we are talking about these images, we are going to be showing the images on my YouTube channel at Annette Benedetti over the top of everything. So you can actually go and listen to our conversation. We will be putting images up. We'll go back through them at the end real quickly. But you can actually see what we're talking about if you head over to my YouTube channel. But actually what we're going to start talking about is I looked into Ricky's naked seduction exhibit. I am so bummed I didn't get to see it in person. But what I found fascinating at the end of my studies was the photographer, Elizabeth Sunflower. Now I am not going to pretend like I am an expert in photography or anything like that, but just the fact that she was able to at that time in history. I think people don't realize how short of a time ago women were able to do any kind of real work on their own or anything outside of being a nurse or a teacher. And this photographer was very successful, it seemed. I, I'm mean, going to let you talk about her, but not only that, that she was bold enough to cover the stuff that you and I are going to cover today. So can you talk to me a little bit about why you chose her?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:06:20]:

So Elizabeth Sunflower is actually part of an archive that my dad and I own. My dad and I own an archive collective called Retro Photo Archive where we purchase and manage various archives. And we found Elizabeth Sunflower about a year and a half ago. We're both from San Francisco. My dad still lives there and she is a San Francisco based photographer, was. And we found her because she had shot the festival altima, rolling Stones Altima 1969. I don't know if you know about altima, but it was sort of like a Woodstock gone wrong. And that's how we found her archive. So we had reached out to her sisters. Long story short, we talked with her sisters and we were able to purchase the archive for them because when she had passed away in 2008, she didn't have any kids and the sisters took over. But they didn't know really the proper way to get her archive back out there in modern day. They struggled. They couldn't figure out how to license her images or get them into magazines or in galleries. And that's something that my dad and I specialize in. And so when we had gotten her archive, I actually had no idea about any of the North Beach work that she had done in terms of the stripper scene. I knew that she had worked and shot Alan Ginsburg, who was a beat poet in North Beach, which is what that neighborhood is primarily known for. But when we had gotten her archive and she had thousands of images, we just started to scan and explore. And I happened upon all of these images from the North Beach stripper scene in the late sixty s and early mid seventy s, and that is when I was like a light bulb went off. I was like, wow, these are really powerful and really relevant and have so many stories. A lot of her images, so she has a lot of scans, but she had some prints of some photographs. And on the back of some of these prints, she would write these little captions about Carol Dota, who someone that you mentioned at the beginning, was the first topless dancer in the United States. And she would write these little blurbs about who these dancers were. Or Lola Raquel, who was in competition. Air quotes with Carol Dota getting arrested for flying topless on an airplane. So she would have these little anecdotes on the back of these photographs that were so inspiring and wanted me to learn, made me want to learn more about the burgeoning sex scene in San Francisco. And I think something really important to note, and this is something that I had said to Annette prior to this podcast is I had listened to some episodes before coming on, and I was saying I felt a little bit of impostor syndrome, like, why am I a good person or fit to be on a show like this? I don't necessarily work in the sex working therapist doctor scene, but for me, I've started to take the time to try and learn more and educate myself about how a lot of this started and how it's continuing to evolve into day. And that is a long winded answer into how naked seduction the gallery came to be. I found myself wanting to learn more about these images and these stories, and I wanted other people to be able to view them and understand this as well. So this is all still very new for me, but it's really exciting and there's so many questions to be answered. But what's so beautiful is Elizabeth Sunflower documented so much of what was happening that visually, so many things are being answered for me and hopefully for the listeners, if you can go online and check them out.

Annette Benedetti [00:10:34]:

I mean, what blew my mind was I'm like, I had never thought about who was the first topless dancer in the US. And where did the strip club scene really start and what was that like? And as I looked at the pictures that you sent me from the exhibit, it just altered my view. I think right now we have still in America, although I do think it's shifting, this view of sex workers as it's dark and seedy, and there are these very weak women who just can only use their bodies for getting money to go to color or whatever. I have good friends who are sex workers. I have interviewed several only fans, creators on this podcast, and these are empowered, educated women making a choice to own the story of their body, own the power of their sexuality. And that is something as you put together this exhibit, you showed the pictures and you told the story of Carol Dota. You told her story as though it's because it is a woman's empowerment story and that she was really talking about and acting out the reclamation of women's sexuality and owning their body and being confident in it. So I am curious about that.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:12:09]:

In.

Annette Benedetti [00:12:10]:

Your write up that you sent me and that listeners can scroll down to the notes in this podcast, click on and read. You talk about how these performers were kind of coming out of what was an underground sex worker environment and then they were kind of coming out into the open. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Tell that story a little bit through the photos?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:12:36]:

Yeah, so definitely I think that in the 70s, like early 70s is when there was always strip clubs in the North Beach area in San Francisco, but how much clothing was off of them was like, you would go in and they'd be pretty much dressed, but they were dancing. They were doing like exotic dancing and whatnot. And I think that the great thing that Carol Dota did was she had this huge act at the Condor Club. So, yes, they were doing stuff underground. And I think more of what I'm highlighting is when it sort of rose to the surface and that's what these photos are. It's sort of like the awakening of, like, check out my titties. I don't want to hide this anymore. Let's dance and show what I got. So I'm sort of highlighting that in this exhibition. It's sort of like this empowering moment of these women coming out and being like, I'm ready to sort of be free and not have someone, specifically a man, tell me what I can and can't show. So what was really great is at the Condor Club, which is a very famous strip club in San Francisco, and it's still around today. If you go to North Beach in San Francisco and you're driving, there's a huge sign there. And I grew up in San Francisco. I still drive and can go see it. But she had this really famous act where she would come down on a grand piano and be singing and dancing. And then one day she was like they made her some type of suit that was essentially topless on the top. And she came down on the grand piano, and it was this huge, big deal, and people were losing their mind because she already had pretty big boobs. And she was the first topless dancer in the United States. She was, like, the first woman to ever do this as a live paying performance act. And it was such a crazy thing in the 70s because people that that wasn't normalized, you know, like you said, that was something that people did underground, and now she was doing it above ground in front of all of these people, and it was really exciting. And I think the greatest part about it, too, was it was empowering for her. It wasn't like a man said, we want you to do this. She wanted to do it. She felt excited about doing it, and she felt proud about doing it. And I think for me, as a woman, I love feeling proud of my boobs and feeling proud of my body, and I want to show them off. I think it's fun and exciting, and I think for a woman of that time where they were so trained to be, like, cover up, and we still kind of are trained like that today when we go to the beach, you have to wear a bikini top. But I'm like, why? I feel better sometimes not having that on. For her to be like, that was such a crazy moment. And to be able to get paid to do that, to feel good and get paid, I think that that parallel was just so exciting for her.

Annette Benedetti [00:15:45]:

Yeah, I think something that was is striking about the photos is that you do see these women are also outside in many of the photos and surrounded by people and men and very confident. And I was like, I didn't even know that that was happening at that point in history, like, so openly. And mostly I was like, oh, I'm surprised they didn't all get arrested. I mean, you can still get in trouble for that shit today. Which blows my mind. I think you're right. It's kind of crazy. Men can walk around and some men have boobs as big as I do. I do not have big boobs, and they can walk around without a top on. But if I were to, it's, like, suddenly a big deal. But, yeah, in the photos, you see the confidence and feelings of being proud of their bodies. And that is, I think, empowering and impactful.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:16:51]:

I think that it's so interesting because after Carol Dota broke that boundary of being topless, a lot of the other strip clubs in North Beach wanted to hop on and be a part of that movement. And one thing that I'm not totally sure of is it the dancers that wanted to hop on, or was it the men that own those clubs? But something cool that you see throughout the photographs and Naked Seduction is that these women are out there and they're marketing for their clubs. And the way that they do that is a lot of times they're not totally topless, but some of them have their nipples a little bit covered or they're holding themselves or whatnot, but they're still out there and showing off these parts of their bodies that at that time wasn't normalized. And like I said, to repeat myself, still not really super normalized. And a lot of them were getting arrested and getting in trouble. And something interesting to know is they were the ones getting in trouble, not clubs. Carol Dota was the one who actually, when she first became doing, came to the Condor Club and was topless dancing. She was the one getting in trouble. And that was something that I sort of was commenting on through Naked Seduction is while these women are having these empowering moments and these breakthrough moments of being naked for the first time publicly, there is this sort of heteronormative male gaze that's still happening. And it does make you think, where is the crossover between female empowerment and also gawking, right? Like, this is only for male pleasure. Some of it just feels very heteronormative.

Annette Benedetti [00:18:53]:

It was a little hard to ignore some of the guys in the photo who were very objectifying. But it was interesting because also in those images, the women still looked like they were owning the space and in control of what was going on. And I do feel like you can see that in the photo. But you spoke to that in the write up that you sent me, a little bit of how you thought that Elizabeth Flowers photos were meant to capture that element and expose it. The power of the woman and then the toxic masculinity, the male gaze just almost looking cartoonish. I think in several of the photos, it looks as cartoonish as it actually is in reality.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:19:47]:

Totally. And that was something I loved, the juxtaposition that Elizabeth Sunflower was always kind of like cultivating in her photographs. And obviously, I didn't know her personally, but when I have spoken to the sisters, something that was really interesting that they noted about her photography. And I'll just say this. You can go to thephotographicjournal.com and you can see all these images in an article that I wrote up about her. So if you want to go look at that while you're listening to this, it'll help a lot to make sense of everything. But something that the sisters had mentioned about Elizabeth Sunflower was she was so intentional about everything she did. So while it wasn't necessarily planned for her to get a shot, it was still street photography, and it was still being in the right place at the right time. Her images are very intentional in the sense that a like, when she's editing them, she finds the ones that she felt she identified with as a woman and a woman working, like you said at the beginning, in the trying to find her footing. And also intentional in the sense of while she's capturing the heteronormativeness in these men, she is trying to show that female empowerment through her images and the power that these women have. And I think that in photography or video or sometimes pornography, sometimes these directors, and I feel like a lot of times it's more like male oriented. There sometimes can be this sense of sadness or pressure that you can feel. And I think what's really beautiful and caught my eye about the way Elizabeth shot was that she isn't capturing that. She's showing that these women, they want to be here. No one's telling them that they have to be here. And that's what I love, honestly, about the rise of sex culture today on only fans. These women that are on only fans and I have a lot of friends who are on only fans or are strippers, they want to be doing that, and they want to be a part of this culture, and they want to share their bodies in this certain way, and no one's saying that they have to. And obviously, there's the other side where that still is happening today. And it's important to note, but I think going back to the early 70s, that was so rare and it was so amazing that Elizabeth Sunflower was there to capture that uprising and that moment, because you can really see it in these images.

Annette Benedetti [00:22:31]:

You can see and feel the empowerment in the images. And one of the reasons why, after seeing and finding out about your exhibit that I wanted to bring you on is and I've covered this throughout the last two and a half years, as I've done this podcast, I always say people are always like, Annette, why always sex? Why does everything have to be almost in this very shameful way, like, something's wrong with me? Because I want to talk about sex in all of its forms, in all of its ways. I'm not afraid to talk about any subject related to it. And when I saw those photos, it captured in those women's faces. What I feel when I'm doing this podcast. I'm talking about something that is vital to the quality of a woman's life, which is sex and our sexuality. It's vital to our health, our mental health, our spiritual health. It's vital to our power in the world. And it's been suppressed, oppressed by us. And it feels fucking good to get on here every week and talk about it. It feels fucking good. And when you see these women in these images, and I really hope, listeners, you'll take some time to do that. And again, to read her write up, because you did such a beautiful job in the write up that you sent me, and we will have all the links to get you there. It's, again, another way of explaining why is sex work important to women's sexual empowerment? Why is women's sexual empowerment important to intersectional feminism and women's liberation? We are drawing a line from sex, women's sexuality to feminism. And you cannot get to feminism and women's liberation and empowering women unless you fix the sex thing. Period. Period, in my very professional opinion. So I think that the work that you're showing does a beautiful job of literally showing it. Right. And it is interesting to me. Elizabeth Sunflower herself, she was obviously a very empowered, strong woman. And then she went out and she captured these women who I'm sure were looked down upon and harassed. I can't even imagine what it would be like to try and be a sex worker at that time in history. And she captured them in a way that was so not only respectful, but made them look as heroic as they truly are. Right, I want to talk about the photo that you have of the woman who was arrested for flying topples. I have a new bucket list.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:25:24]:

I know, right?

Annette Benedetti [00:25:26]:

It's happening. It's happening. I'm going to Fiji.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:25:28]:

Maybe I'll get brave.

Annette Benedetti [00:25:31]:

Can we talk a little bit about that image and the story around it?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:25:37]:

Yeah, definitely. So Lola Raquel is who is in this image, and she worked at Elsid el CID, which was right next door to the Condor Club. And Lola Raquel was sort of brought on board to be in competition with Carol Dota. They wanted people to come to the El CID Club and check out what they got. So what they did was they would send the dancers from the El CID Club in these cute little get ups there's two photographs because it's seamless, but they would dress up in these cute little outfits with these little hearts that cover their nipples that said El CID Club. And they would go to the airport and they would market their club to the people coming in and going out saying, like, oh, welcome to San Francisco. You should come to the Elsa Club. Like, check out what we have to offer. So that's what they were doing. But then Lola went to the airport and one of her get ups because she was going to La. She was traveling to La. To do some type of work. And she was wearing, in the photograph that I'm showing now, this jumper where her boobs are out. And she has these pasties sort of over her nipples that match. But she's exposed. You can see her boobs. And in the photo, it goes back to this heteronormative gaze. There's three men sort of gawking and looking at her boobs, and she's showing them out of her fur coat. And she feels good. But she gets on the plane to go to La. And she makes it there. And when she gets off the plane, the police are waiting for her because she was flying nude, even though technically her nipples were covered. She was wearing moth pasties. But it was all part of this advertising for the Elsa Club. That's where the airport really like the airport gimmick started. But she was just going for this photo that I'm now showing, this second one of the airport. She's just going to La. To do her own work, and she decided to wear this outfit. And it's just very interesting because it does make me wonder now, if I were to show up to the airport like that in that outfit and got on the plane, would I get in trouble? It's so hard to say because I want to say no. I want to say, like, oh, well, I can do whatever the fuck I want. God bless America. But I feel that that's not really the ethos of the United States. And if I did get on the airplane now with my boobs out, I think I would probably get in trouble or I'd be making stuff uncomfortable, or there would be some type of conversation.

Annette Benedetti [00:28:31]:

Yeah, they would definitely I don't know if they'd even let you take off. I have heard of them kicking people off the plane for shorts that are too short and stuff like that. And I'm like, Holy shit. I just do want to all right, so I'm going to share something a little personal. I this year, for the first time in my entire life, I'm turning 49 next Sunday, have worn pasties for the first time. I just want to talk about the power of pasties. Like, there is something it's funny because you're still topless, but you got these. I had little heart ones. I had little fuck me ones. They did make me feel a little bit less naked. So they made me feel less naked. I wore them to a sex club in the sex club, but I wore them to a nude beach after the heart ones to the nude beach, because I was going to nude beach with my friends. And suddenly they made me feel like I was being inappropriate. Interestingly enough, I was like, OOH, is it better if I'm just like, out here with my nipples, or does putting the pasties on my nipples suddenly sexualize the situation, because at the nude beach, you don't want to make it all sex sex oriented because there's people and kids and stuff like that. And I was like, God, is this inappropriate? I thought it was funny. Now I'm thinking maybe I should have gone without the past. I was thinking about that. So a lot of the photos that were sharing, obviously the women have pasties or what would have been early day pasties on their nipples.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:30:07]:

Yeah, no, I think it's really interesting because a lot of the marketing that happened, the woman's nipples weren't often out. There was usually some type of coverage, you could say.

Annette Benedetti [00:30:22]:

Yeah, but it's funny to me that that coverage actually made me feel like maybe I'm sexing up a situation that it would be less sexy if I just were showing my nipples. I thought that that was a very interesting moment in my brain, because I'm like, oh, maybe the pasties are drawing attention. Anyway, that's my but I love pasties.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:30:41]:

I love pasties, too. I have to say.

Annette Benedetti [00:30:43]:

I love them. They are I can't believe it's taken me so long to meet the pasty. And they're comfortable.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:30:51]:

They're really comfortable. And like, if you wear a cute little mesh top or something and you have them on it, it creates an outfit. It creates a moment.

Annette Benedetti [00:30:59]:

Yeah. So I'm heading into my 50s into the pasties. Weird timing, but whatever. It happens when it happens.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:31:06]:

This isn't an advertisement for pasties, by the way.

Annette Benedetti [00:31:09]:

Hey, if you want to sponsor me, I will wear your pasties everywhere.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:31:15]:

Except the nude beach.

Annette Benedetti [00:31:17]:

I'll do a lot for a sponsorship except for a nude beach.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:31:20]:

Right.

Annette Benedetti [00:31:22]:

So there was also the story of the strippers that somehow made it in the airport up to the tower. Can you explain that would never happen today. Never. So that's what made it a fun story. Can we talk about that a little bit?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:31:40]:

Yeah. So that's the Elsid girls, and that is just back to them. They went with their little signs, and you can see in the images, but it says, like, Elsids Misrekels, which is Low Lakels is Hot Pants and Welcomes home all of these different people. And you can like, they were going around with their little signs around the airport, and they were just interacting with travelers and workers and even the police, and somehow they made it up into the flight control tower that was on the back of one of Elizabeth Sunflower's prints. She never said exactly how they made it up. I like to think back to the heteronormativeness of the situation. It's like sweet talking these men, and these men saw them in these outfits and these cutesy little outfits, and their boobs are exposed, and they were like, yeah, why don't you come on up here and see what goes on in the control tower? Like a little bit of blurting. And they're like. Holding the windows up in the glass where they can see all the jet planes landing and taking off and they're holding up their Elsid signs. So they're like, great, let's take advantage of this marketing situation where we can but those images are just so great and we'll show some of them now, I'm sure, in the visual part of the podcast. But it's just nice because these girls, it's the 70s, their hair is so big, they're wearing the big makeup and eyelashes and they're wearing these cute little outfits with little hearts on their boobs that say Elsaid. And I just think it's so unique and sexy, but also it's hot and.

Annette Benedetti [00:33:37]:

You couldn't do that today. It's interesting to me that they focused on airports. You just couldn't get anywhere close to an airport like that. I think that when you look through these photos, what you'll realize is, oh, God, how similar things are today, but also how in some ways, even more restricted things are today. Right? Like, sex workers, I don't think, could get away with some of the stuff that these iconic innovators were getting away with. They could not do those things as easily and freely, which seems like, how is that true? But they wouldn't get into an airport. You just don't see that same kind of like out in public talking to the cops thing nowadays. Not that maybe I'm in the wrong place. I feel like if it were going to happen anywhere, like Portland and maybe it's happening in San Francisco, but I don't think to the extent that what we're seeing in the photos, it was happening. Am I wrong?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:34:49]:

Totally. No, I mean and I think something that's interesting and like I said, I'm no professional in this field, but it's something that I've thought about a lot while exploring Naked Seduction and these photos, elizabeth Sunflower's photos. But I sometimes feel like we have tried to over normalize sex working nowadays just because of only fans and strip clubs everywhere. That because people are like, oh, it's so normal. It's so normal, it's almost become not okay again, if that makes sense. In the sense of I still hear people when they're talking about friends that are on only fans, like, oh, I can't believe they do that, or there's always this sense of judgment or shame. And I think it is so normalized in our culture for some people. But on the other hand, I still think there's this sense of underlying shame or deep rooted issues with it. I don't know if I'm making sense.

Annette Benedetti [00:35:49]:

But no, I agree. I'm kind of surprised that the stigma is still there and so rampant and that feeling that someone's desperate, I think that's common. People still say it and people assume that anyone who's doing that is there is desperation. There's something sad about them rather than them being empowered. Speaking of the name of your exhibit, the Naked Seduction, was a club. Now here is my question. I was reading the write up about The Naked Seduction, and folks, I'm going to put the photo up now. There's a photo of a man and a woman acting out this erotic moment. It's a performance, and they were doing it in a club called The Naked Seduction. Now, who was the owner of the Naked Seduction?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:36:53]:

Who was the owner?

Annette Benedetti [00:36:55]:

Yes.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:36:56]:

Kathleen Samuels. Who was a woman?

Annette Benedetti [00:36:59]:

Yes. Kathleen Samuels. That's what I wanted to ask you. So this is interesting to me. The Naked Seduction was a club, and it was owned by a woman. Now, the picture, why don't you tell.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:37:12]:

Us about the picture? Yeah, so the picture is it's my favorite picture in the show. It's of a man and a woman who are actually husband and wife in the midst of the beginning of intercourse on a platform in the club, where there's two older people right in front of them looking directly at the camera, not at the couple having sex behind them, sitting sort of at the bar. What do they call that? It's the meat rack. Right? Is that what they call it?

Annette Benedetti [00:37:50]:

Yeah, I think you're right. I was like, God, how did I not know that?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:37:53]:

Yes. Heard it. Yeah. And it's a black and white image. And the couple, the married couple who are in the midst of having sex have these orgasmic pleasurable faces on them. They're so in the moment. And the older pair, who's not a couple, are staring just right at the camera. And there is this sense of tension, but they also sort of seem like they might be enjoying it. But what's so interesting about this photo is The Naked Seduction was a club where the erotic performers husband and wife, Roberto Lee and William Milliken would have a simulated live sex act at the club. So they would perform sex for people who would come in and they were going to get arrested, and the club was going to get sued for them doing this. And they said, well, we're married. We're a married couple. We do this at home. Why can't we do this at a club? What's the difference? So this photo is a picture of the judge and a member of the jury coming into Naked Seduction, watching the live sex act to determine if what they were doing was legal. I know, right? It's like this sounds like a fun day. Fun day work. So they're at the club determining whether or not they think it's okay for husband and wife to have sex. And Naked Seduction ended up winning the trial because it was legal. And unfortunately, Kathleen Samuels had passed away like two weeks before they had decided who won, which is a bummer, but I thought that was a really empowering moment. And I named the show Naked Section after this. This was one of the first images that I had seen. And I just thought it was such a powerful story of why can't people perform sex for money if this is what they want to do and they feel passionate about doing it? I love this image because of their facial expressions. They are so blissfully in their own world. They don't really give a fuck about the judge or the jury there. They're just so happy to be doing it. And I think there's something so beautiful and authentic about that. I love it.

Annette Benedetti [00:40:37]:

I don't know that I could have sex in front of a judge and jury member. I think that might be a little bit too much for me. I'm a little impressed with the fact that the dude was able to make it work. One thing that you do keep bringing up I hadn't thought about until our conversation is the heteronormative nature of the photos and the time and the scene. So it is interesting to me that in these photos in which, again, women were not in power in any way during that time I was born in the women were very much I was raised in a very much a 1950s household. So to see these images at that time showing women naked, half-naked paces, whatever close enough to naked and empowered in such a heteronormative sexual situation, it's a big fucking deal.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:41:37]:

Yeah. And I think that's where the light bulb went off for me. When I had seen these images, I felt like I immediately recognized how unique and important these were. And I think that was a huge thing too. With Elizabeth Sunflower is a lot of the archives my dad and I collect. They've struggled to reach the surface in modern day, and that was this huge point for me. And in Naked Seduction is bringing these to the surface and showing how uniquely rare and beautiful it was to see these women showcasing their bodies in the way that they wanted to and feeling excited about doing it. I think that is something really special. And I think that as a woman myself, I want to feel proud about my body. And when I do and I have these moments of feeling really good, you want to show that part off of yourself? What if I want to show some of my cleavage or I want to wear a see through shirt where my nipples are showing when I go out? I don't want to have to think about the fact that other people I don't want to have to think about the male gaze or, oh, someone's going to be like, hey there, mama, or whatever. I just want to be able to go out and enjoy myself. And that's what I really liked about these photos, is even though the men are looking at them, which is unfortunately the society that we do live in, they are still sort of in this bliss and enjoying themselves and saying, like, this is for me. It's not really for anyone else. This is a moment in history that I'm creating.

Annette Benedetti [00:43:21]:

And so how do you feel that taking these photos? As far as I know and again, you're free to correct me if I'm wrong, they certainly haven't been mainstream photos. I don't even know if most people have seen these photos or heard this story before. So taking these photos and now bringing them out into the public eye, you did an exhibit, you've written this article. I am going to be talking about them, and I assume that hopefully more and more people are going to see them and learn about Elizabeth Sunflower and about these iconic people who I have never even heard about. What do you think doing that today has to offer kind of what we're going through right now as at least the American culture?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:44:09]:

Yeah, I think that's a good question. Because I think that again, I didn't know who Carol Dota was or Lola Raquel. And I'm from San Francisco. So I think understanding and knowing who these women were who sort of laid some of the groundwork out for Carol Dota to be the first topless dancer in the United States, and that was so recent. That was 1970. That's not that long ago in the grand scheme of things. And to just know her name and know what she went through, and she was arrested, and they were fighting at the same time for this woman's liberation in the woman's liberation movement, just to have the big picture. It feels really important as we continue to fight for women's rights today, to understand the groundwork and what they went through. To continue this fight only brings the whole story together. And I said this at the beginning and I'll say it again now. I am no expert in this. I'm learning more and more every single day. And to understand the beginnings of what Carol Dota and Lola Raquel and the Woman El CID Club or Naked Seduction did is the beginning to understanding the whole picture.

Annette Benedetti [00:45:33]:

Yeah. You have mentioned that you're not an expert in this. And I think what I want to say about that because I think this is important. I have interviewed doctors, I have authors. I understand how lucky I am to get to talk to the people that I have. But every last one of them will admit that because there has been so little focus on women's sexuality, from the medical end of it to the hormonal end of it to the lifestyle end of it, and what goes on with us physically, mentally, emotionally, that everybody is still in the learning mode. I mean, fuck, they just kind of figured out how big the clitoris is. Have you seen the new pictures of the clitoris? That's like a goddamn monster inside our body. Yeah, it's not the little nub. That's like, relatively new information. I mean, really, this is a new movement, a new topic. There's so much that's not known about women's sexuality and our history in general. We were not captured in history books. No one talked about us. And so what you're doing is so fucking important. You are uncovering you found history that probably just wouldn't have been brought to light. Like, why is this not a movie? Is there not a movie about these women? Like, fucking blow my mind. What an amazing movie that would be.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:47:07]:

That's so crazy. Because you can look up Carol Dota online and there's stuff that comes up about her. But if you try to look up Lola Raquel, there's like one article, and it's not even about her. It just mentions her name. These women really weren't written about. And a lot of these stories, like I said, about the Elsid Club or Lola Raquel are just written from Elizabeth Sunflower. And I think that goes back to what you're saying. These women were major innovators and doing such amazing things for females, and nobody gave a fuck back then. And it's so sad because of everything that they were doing and how beautifully done it was and unique.

Annette Benedetti [00:47:57]:

It was captured. And again, so much of women's history is lost. It's just fucking lost. And so it is a big deal that you've unearthed and found this little bit. You captured a little bit of the history, and hopefully that will lead to their stories being told even more and more. I think this is super important, listeners. We all feel like beginners in the world of women's sexuality. And some of us are just afraid to even dip our toe in the water because of what people might think of us. When I started doing this podcast, I was terrified of what it would mean for my career, what people would think of me. And it's been nothing but empowering for me. And telling the stories of the women and bringing to light the stories of the women who really were the innovators in women's sexual empowerment is important. And I hope that, listeners, you're going to take some time to check out the photos. Now, we have been putting up photos throughout our conversation that correlate with the conversation. Are there any photos I didn't touch on that you want to bring to light, talk about right now and put up at this point?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:49:10]:

Yeah. So there's one last image that I want to put up, which I think is such an important one, and it's of Carol Dota, and she's standing outside of the Condor Club. It's 1972, and I believe she's standing with the owner of the Condor Club. She's holding her boobs. She's cupping them. She's crossing her hands and she's cupping her boobs. And she's fairly big boobs, so you can see most of them. She's really just cupping her nipples. And there's all of these people behind her, and there's one woman who's behind her holding the woman's symbol up with a hand in the middle. It's like a protesting type sign, but the woman holding the sign. She has a big smile on her face and she looks really excited. And this is right after Carol Dota and a bunch of her fellow dancers put their boobs into the cement in front of the Condor Club to sort of immortalize the club and themselves. They put it in the concrete and it's still there today. And I think that that photo of all these people and all these people are smiling, it's not just men, it's men and women. There just has this sort of like, victory moment. And I feel like there's sort of been this up and down feeling throughout naked seduction of both excitement, but also a sense of defeat. And I love this image. This was one of the last images, if you walk around the gallery that you see and it's sort of like a victory moment of excitement, and she looks really happy and she's immortalizing herself in this moment in history that she created by being the first topless dancer in the United States. And I just think this image is so important for so many different reasons, whether it because it has the woman's liberation symbol behind her, but also her standing and feeling really happy and like she achieved something, which she did.

Annette Benedetti [00:51:13]:

She did. Yeah. Very cool picture now, guys. So, again, the images are up on screen throughout our conversation on my YouTube channel, an Epinetti. If you need clarification again, you're going to want to go to the article. It has the captions, ricky did a beautiful job, a really beautiful write up on the images and dives deeper into the meaning behind them, the significance of them. I hope that you'll click on that link and then share it with your friends. Ricky, I would love for you to tell people where they can find you, everything you're doing. Keep up with your shenanigans.

Ricki Blakesberg [00:52:06]:

Yeah, of course. So you can find me on Instagram. I have two different Instagrams that you can follow. It's at Retroblakesburg, which highlights my dad's photo archive that's less about feminism, a little bit more about rock and roll and music, but it's still a great archive to check out. And retro photo archive, which is where I post photographers like Elizabeth Sunflower. And those are more the based, and it ranges from more feminist photography to rock and roll just to pop culture. So you can check it out there. And then also, like Annette said, you can go to thephotographicjournal.com and read the full article about Elizabeth Sunflower in relation to the stripper scene in North Beach and learn more about Carol Dota and Lola Raquel.

Annette Benedetti [00:52:59]:

And if they want to keep up with when you do exhibits and stuff like that, how are they going to do that?

Ricki Blakesberg [00:53:05]:

I think the best way would be to check out the Instagram or Retrophotoarchive.com. So Retrophotoarchive.com or at Retrophotoarchive, I will always post about exhibits that I'll be doing.

Annette Benedetti [00:53:20]:

Awesome. And you guys know where to find me right by now. I hope you know I'm on Facebook and Instagram. Locker room, talking shots, podcast. She explores life. You can join me on my personal Instagram at being Benedetti. Also YouTube at Annette Benedetti and TikTok locker Room talk and Shots podcast. It's hard to post there. TikTok does not like women talking about sex. But whatever. I keep trying because that's what I do. Ricky, thank you so much for taking time to join me and to talk about this. It was fascinating. I have learned so much. I'm going to keep an eye on your work. Until next time, listeners. I will see you in the locker room. Cheers.