Pastor Podcast - Zechariah 12 - The Fantastic Fountain

Each week Pastor Mark takes time to go deeper and talk about the week's message!  If you have questions you'd like him to answer or hear more about please send those in by texting us at the link in the show notes!

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The headlines move fast, but Scripture moves deeper. We sit down with Pastor Mark to keep the tape rolling after Sunday and dig into Zechariah 12–13, where a “weighty” oracle about Israel turns into a breathtaking picture of God’s mercy. The text points to a coming moment of mourning and recognition when people “look on Him whom they have pierced” and respond with repentance, and we talk honestly about what that means for how Christians think about Israel today without importing our theology from the news.

We also address why this topic can become divisive, and why it shouldn’t. Some convictions belong in the closed hand, like the deity of Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, and the authority of God’s Word. Other questions, including many end times timelines, require humility. Along the way we reject antisemitism outright and remind ourselves that what’s wrong with the world isn’t a “who,” it’s sin. That lens changes how we talk, how we pray, and how we evaluate the world’s conflicts.

Zechariah doesn’t just speak about nations, it speaks about God. We lean into His sovereignty as the One who stretches out the heavens, founds the earth, and forms the human spirit, and we find real comfort for anxious hearts. Then we follow the promise of God’s surpassing power, where the feeble become strong, and we connect the prophetic imagery to Revelation themes like Armageddon while keeping the focus on daily dependence on Christ.

Finally, we slow down at Zechariah 13:1, the fountain of cleansing, and ask the personal question that matters most: have you truly received salvation, or do you only know about it? If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend, leave a review, and tell us what part challenged you most.

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Intro music by Joey Blair

Transcript

Welcome And Zechariah Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Well, hey Lifehouse family, welcome back. Our Monday time, or prayerfully, whenever you check us out throughout the week. But Monday morning, we gotta pick Pastor Mark's brain a little bit more. Dig into God's word. As we always say, Sunday morning's great, but uh man, there's just so much to say. So we want to keep the keep the tape rolling. And for everybody who was here yesterday, hopefully if you did not see yesterday's sermon, always go check it out on our YouTube channel as well. But just some time to dig a little deeper into some details. Zechariah 12 and 13, 1, going a little bit all too.

Who Is Israel In Scripture

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yes in this journey. Yeah, like bringing it. So I haven't really even 100%. I think I'm gonna close it this week, and this will be the last sermon coming up with 13 and 14. But yeah, so the last portion, so 12, 13, and 14 of the book of Zechariah is one oracle, which is oracles from a Hebrew word that means weighty, that's laid upon the people. And it's concerning Israel, right? And so let's just talk for a minute. Yeah, because this really is kind of a controversial and unfortunately has become a divisive topic within the church. How we're to view Israel? Like who is the Israel, you know, that that we read about in the Bible, and and how does that Israel relate to the Israel that we see in the news today, you know, that exists as a nation? And it's again, if you watch Tucker Carlson, there's you know, there's very strong views. And unfortunately, so many people, not that Tucker Carlson doesn't have a lot to say, but I think that people find and get their theology and doctrine based on what they see on the news and on social media, and that's just not the place to get it. We look to God's word, and so again, I still think that you can have a different view than maybe I have and still trust the Lord. I mean, I do think that this is one of those issues that isn't as clear-cut as some, right? For me, this isn't a hill to die on. I think that we have to be very humble on how we view Israel. But I believe, personally, you know, my personal view is that God is faithful and that he still has a plan for Israel, that he has not completely like rejected them and you know, written them off. I do believe that they are experiencing the consequences of unfaithfulness, of rejection. But what I believe this is communicating is that there will one day be a great revival in and among the people of Israel, in such that they will recognize Jesus, the one they had rejected, as their Messiah. They will mourn, they will repent. Right? This passage in Zechariah chapter 12 speaks of a great mourning. When they look upon him whom they have pierced, that is fascinating to me. So, this a hundred years before Jesus Christ is even born, this passage is pointing forward to a time even beyond, it's pointing forward to a time when this people will look back upon whom they have pierced and realize what they did. And they, in orchestrating essentially, the crucifixion of their Messiah, their king, and they there will be weeping. They will weep bitterly, they will mourn, and I believe that's pointing to repentance. And God will says there's a fountain, a fountain will be opened, a fountain of cleansing, a fountain of forgiveness opened to the nation of Israel. And I believe that's pointing forward to the end times when there will be a revival, glorious revival. And to me, that just speaks of again, so what's that have to do with us? This is a word, an oracle concerning Israel. But it's speaking of our God and the grace and of his character and of his mercy that he bestows on this people that rejected him, that crucified him, that orchestrated his crucifixion. That's the same grace that is bestowed upon us. This fountain that will be opened for them has been opened for us. And so we know, like we're not unfamiliar with these concepts. And it is, I can't help but rejoice in thinking about the grace poured out on a people who don't deserve it, just like his grace was poured out upon me. This is why it's amazing, grace. And so for me, it does mean something, it does hit home and impact and excite and humble, you know. So I don't know. Any thoughts? I don't know what's your opinion.

Hold Views Humbly And Reject Hate

SPEAKER_00 4:35

You have a different view, uh, you know, you know, I think we have to humbly hold these. Like you say, I think we call it open-handed issues at Lifehouse Church. You know, we have open-handed and closed-handed, which closed-handed we view as you know, first-order things that are absolutely critical. You can't really say you're a follower of Christ if you're not believing that Jesus is God, if you're not believing in the crucifixion and resurrection, if you're not believing in God's word. Very open-handed, right? Paul has much to say in Romans, and it's all very, you know, old covenant and how God's going to play out. But like you say, God's faithful when he makes promises. So I think we have to always humbly we don't fully understand all of God's plans, you know. So I think that's something we always have to hold together in a in a very open-handed way. But, you know, I think we should recognize and leave room for what God's doing. We we know God works throughout history, and so what are his plans for Israel? We don't always know. You know, we look back through, and I do think you know, you mentioned Tucker Carlson. I know he's had some controversial interviews with some people who bring very anti-Semitic attitude, and I think we absolutely have to reject that. A good thing that I'd heard is whenever we try to make what's wrong with the world about a who rather than a what, yeah, we're we're in a bad place. You know, so for people who are very anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, like I think you absolutely have to, like you said, God will judge their actions and things, and we have to leave that to God. But too many people want to make it like Israel is is the great course that's many.

End Times Labels And God’s Control

SPEAKER_01 6:07

That's where we have to be careful, because I'm not saying, nor should we ever. I don't believe it's right to just blindly accept everything that the nation of Israel is doing today. I but I don't believe God's okay with everything that the nation of Israel is doing. You know, they are not saved, right? You know, but he still has a plan for them, is what I'm saying. And he showed the grace that he showed to us, he will show, I believe, to this nation in a profound way. He will reveal himself in an undeniable way, so much so that it will bring them to their knees and they will realize their error, you know, and how, and specifically what those errors are and when that will be exactly that's what we have to trust. And ultimately, and I don't I don't believe that that this is a cop-out. So I have my own views, you know. So not to get too theological or use terms, but pre-trib, pre-mill, like that's kind of where I'm you know, that's where where I hold, but again, I hold them very open-handed, pre. So there's pre-mid and post-trib tribulation, which that talks about the rapture of the church, whether the church will be raptured pre-mid or post-tribulation. And then there's pre-millennial, ah millennial, and post-millennial. And so that's a whole nother, you know, you know, a whole other podcast on that. But ultimately, like all these pre-mid, you know, I'm pan, like, you know, and what I mean by that is literally, even though I hold these pre-mill, pre-trib views, it's all going to pan out. Like God's in control, like the first point, like his sovereign position. Like we should rest in his sovereign position. This was his word, like this oracle concerning Israel. Like, this is our God, like he is above all, like sovereign over all. Everything, everyone, right? The the one, the God who demonstrated his love for us, and that while we were still sinners, Christ died. That's who's in control. That's who's in the driver's seat. So that should really bring comfort to us, not only to the people of God who at this time were struggling and feeling vulnerable and weak and susceptible. Like their God's in charge of everything. And that's our God, right? The God of the Bible, the God of the church, you know. So, so yeah, that that encourages me, that comforts me, you know, and and ultimately, regardless of what happens, regardless of what will happen in the future, in the end times, God's in control.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And so, yeah, I think yeah, tying that into the Israel, like we trust, you know, God's got his plans, his purposes, and we should really look at them, you know, in the same way. If there's evil things, wrong things, the what that they do, we should call that out. You know, that that's disobedient to God's plans. We should absolutely not condone a nation doing that. But at the same time, we should not view that a specific people is what's wrong with the world. Right. You know, too often we get into that, and that's not where we should be, because it's sin is the problem and disobedience and going against the Lord, and that's what's wrong, not Israel or Jews or that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

This is a sin-cursed world. Yes. Thankfully, God has a plan to redeem it all, right? He will right every wrong. No stone will be unturned. I do love the declaration in the beginning of this passage that the Lord makes regarding himself, where he talks about how he is the one who formed or he with the three verbs. So he stretched out the heavens, verse one, he founded the earth and he formed the spirit of man within him. And the tense, right, of this in the Hebrew is not just that he past tense stretched and he past tense formed and filled, or you know, but that he did these things and continues to do these things. And so he's saying, like, I am very much involved in orchestrating and in control of everything that has taken place in the past and that is continuing to take place. And so it is a very comprehensive, emphatic statement, I'm in control. And that should comfort us. So, yeah, do you, do we rest when we hear those news reports, when you know we are made aware of seemingly you know hopeless, you know, situations, circumstances. Like, do we lose hope or do we cling to the hope in light of the fact that our God is in control?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Reminding us that we aren't in control of those things. We are not. Apart from God's sovereignty, it will drive you crazy. If you follow the news every day, you're just gonna drive yourself nuts. I've even, you know, with social media, cell phones, like we're not really meant to know all these things. Like, that's where we are to trust, to rely on the Lord, because if we try to wrap our brain around all these things, it's it's more than we can handle. And that's why we trust God's plans. And like with all the views on the millennial and everything, if we totally understood it, then it wouldn't really be God's plans at that point. We would just start doing our own thing and uh he's not coming for a while. I can just, you know, chill, but no, we are God gives us enough to have the confidence in how we live, but to live dependently, abiding in Christ.

God’s Power For The Weak

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Under his authority. Yeah. So the second thing that is communicated in this passage in chapter 12 is a declaration regarding his surpassing power and what he will do in and through the nation of Israel, who at that time and who will be, when this comes to pass, weak, you know, feeble, uh vulnerable in comparison to the surrounding nations that are coming and gathering against the nation to attack it, which I believe describes the Battle of Armageddon. Revelation 16 talks about that where all the kings of the earth will gather and assemble in the valley that is called the ghetto, so on the hill. So we believe that to be an area, I do believe, to about 60 miles north of the city of Jerusalem. So I believe this will literally be fulfilled in the end times. But this is a promise here that despite Israel's susceptibility, weakness, vulnerability, this time he's saying, you know, they don't have horses. All these other nations, Egypt, Persia, Babylon, they have horses. And essentially, you could view in that time the horses were like the tanks or the fighter jets, you know, of those days. You know, these nations were strong. They were weak, and they're thinking, what are we gonna do? Like we're toast here. But God is saying, no, like even the feeblest among you, I'm gonna raise up to be like a hero, like David. Israel is gonna be like a boiling pot or a pot of coals among wood or like a flaming torch among sheaves. In other words, like these pots they had in their context, like they didn't have stoves that they could just turn on at any moment, but they kept these pots with coals inside so that when they needed to light a fire, those coals would be ready and they could just light a fire. Or, you know, a flaming torch, imagine to chaff of wheat. So, like kindling, if you can, so to speak. If you put a flame of torch, it's gonna set it ablaze, right? So, what God's telling his people listen, you are gonna be on fire, you're gonna bring the fire. Like when this battle happens, I'm gonna raise you guys up, I'm gonna cause confusion among all those horses and their riders, blind them, but I'm gonna keep my eye on you. Like you can count on that. And so he's telling them that my strength will be on display in such a way that even the people of Judah will see what God's doing in through the city of Jerusalem and the people there and say, wow, like they are exhibiting and demonstrating the power of the Lord their God, the strength in an undeniable way. And I believe that that is one of the ways that God will bring them to repentance because they're gonna realize this is the true God, you know, and we must bow to him and submit to him in a way that they did not when he came the first time.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And I think just even applying that to our day-to-day lives, it's doing things. If God's gonna work through us, it's gonna be something we could not do ourselves, you know. So the feeblest among us, maybe you have physical disabilities, maybe you don't feel like you're that smart, but God can do great things, even if you feel feeble. If you surrender and submit, he can do those things. And we see this ultimately the end of the time, but even day to day, he does that constantly, right? This is what we are weak, yeah, he is strong.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Little is much when God is in it, as cliche as that sounds. And he always, through the Bible, uses the weak, right? The insignificant, like Moses stuttered. You know, I mean, like we could David, you know, all of them, but does incredible and reveals his power and glory through his servants. Paul said, encourage the church in Philippians 4. My God shall supply all your need according to his riches and glory. In Philippians 4, 13, I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. Ephesians chapter 6, Paul encouraged the church to be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. And so we have access to this strength, this surpassing power, right? And we see that happen all throughout scripture, right? You know, there are so many testimonies of when God's insignificant people, just even right off the bat when he delivered them from Egypt, right? Egypt was coming after them with their armies, with their horses. Not only did he set the people free, but he destroyed the Egyptian army. The army that and the people that had enslaved them for hundreds of years, they were just coming out of slavery. They didn't have anything. Egyptian had everything, but except for the Lord. They that the God's people had the Lord, and God destroyed their enemies completely. And there's so many testimonies in scripture of where God demonstrated his faithfulness to his people in providing and exerting his strong hand in and through his people. And yeah, on a day-to-day, what's this have to do with us? This strength we have access to, right? Jesus says, the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church. Like the battle is not ours, it's the Lord's, and he will fight for us. Like, and so all these principles and promises and realities, like that strength is the strength that we have access to. He's not almighty, he or just mighty, he is almighty. This is the Lord our God.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

We should be seeking to do those things that rely on his strength. Because when we do it in our own strength, even if it's ambitious, it's for the wrong reasons. It's, you know, hey, he'll he'll let you try that. But when we truly want to do great things for God's glory, hey, I can't do this apart from you, God. Well, Jesus says people probably have lots of situations going on, and that's where we have to really change our mindset.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I mean, Jesus tells his disciples, apart from me, you can do nothing. Like you're gonna need me. Abide in me, and in and through that you will bear fruit. And so when we over, we're more than conquerors through Jesus Christ. And so if we're gonna fight a battle, spiritual and even physical, I believe it's in the power and in the strength of the Lord our God. And so we can rely on, second point, his surpassing power. Greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. There is none like him in all the earth. This is the power that we can rely on to endure, to persevere for his glory and for our good.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

If you're feeling feeble, you're probably right where God needs you to be to use you. And I think that's what he's telling us here.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So his power is made perfect in weakness, said Paul, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

And the last point, I think, like you were saying, yeah, looking on him who appears, so much Christology here, and you know, the mourning, just we know the gospel starts with repenting of our sin, mourning what it took for us to have salvation, starts there, and I think this is very, very uh prophetic in that way.

The Fountain Of Cleansing

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, and I love how, so again, I think this is reiterated or restated in Revelation chapter 1, verse 7, where John says, you know, behold, he is coming with the clouds, every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the nations of the earth will mourn on account of him. And I believe that that's essentially restating what Zechariah 12 states in saying, like, David and all in his house, and their wives by themselves, and you know, the Levites and everyone in their house and their wives by themselves, and the Shimeites, and it just goes on, Nathan and and every, and it's pointing to this pervasive individual, like corporately, everybody's gonna repent. Individually, it's not just like this, okay, we repent, but I repent. Like, you know, they take ownership and they mourn, they weep, you know, in response to the realization that they were the nation that rejected their king, that had come to save them. And then beautifully, Zechariah 13, 1 says, and in connection with that mourning, that repentance, that weeping, a fountain of cleansing will be opened for the house of David, the nation of Israel. And I believe that's pointing to salvation, right? I spoke of a testimony that really impacted me when studying that of William Cooper. So it's spelled C-O-W-P-E-R-C. Yeah, but it's Cooper. And I I never realized this. I know the hymn, there is a fountain filled with blood, and he wrote this hymn based on Zechariah chapter 13, verse 1, because that's the thing. This fountain that will be open for the nation of Israel one day has been opened, right? With the death of Christ, the shedding of his blood. This is the day of salvation, right? And so incredibly, his testimony is that this was a man who struggled with severe depression, even attempted suicide on multiple occasions, was actually institutionalized. And then upon reading the Bible, came across Romans 3 and was just so impacted, the Lord opened his eyes to the reality of Christ being a propitiation, being set forth as a propitiation for our sins. He came to Saving Faith. And then several years later, I think it was 1771, is when he wrote this hymn. And so it wasn't just like a moment in the Assaint Asylum that he was like an emotional moment, but that continued for several years later, actually joined ranks with and wrote, co-wrote many songs with and was uh connected to John Newton, who wrote Amazing Grace. And so they wrote many hymns and he contributed. So this is a man who followed Jesus and experienced the fountain. And so, even though like this fountain is pointing forward to a time when the nation of Israel will, the fountain will be open to them, like I know all about this fountain. I have been cleansed by this fountain. We have been, you know, our sins have been washed away. All those things that offend a holy, righteous God, our God, have been dealt with, not in our strength, but in Jesus' strength, in his blood. And so I love this fountain. I love seeing about this fountain. I love reading about this fountain and how it will be open for a people who, like I don't deserve my salvation, they don't deserve any salvation. But yet God's grace, the spirit of grace, will be poured out upon them. Uh, he says, and please for uh uh mercy or supplication. And I believe that's them simply begging God, have mercy on us, you know, like don't give us what we deserve, which is condemnation. So I can even relate to that and just thinking about that, playing out, you know, the angels rejoice in heaven when one comes to saving faith. What why would we not rejoice in thinking about a people, men, women, and children, this nation that had rejected Jesus, realizing and repenting of their ways and God showing his grace to them in such a powerful way. So it's exciting to me to think about.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Right. It's a beautiful picture and reminds me of the parable Jesus set tells of the wedding feast, and you know, that if you don't have your wedding garment, you know, you're you're gonna be kicked out. And I always view that garment as the covering. Of the blood. If you don't have Christ covering you, it's not going to go well. You're not going to be present there. There is one way thrown out. One way. It's through Christ.

Make Sure You’re Truly Saved

SPEAKER_01 22:11

So that last point, you know, and this is, I guess we'll close with this. So the question is, you know, so this in this is revealed God's saving purpose, but have you received that salvation? And you know, I I, for one, grew up in the church and lived and existed, quoted verses, sang songs, gathered and assembled on a weekly basis for many years, having not actually received the salvation that I sang about and that I knew cognitively about. Now, during those years, I wasn't a hypocrite in the sense where, you know, I knew I wasn't saved, but I presented myself as one who was saved. I thought I was. And so I'm burdened because I think even today within the evangelical church, there are many who have a false sense of security because they know about the fountain, Jesus, the blood. They think I'm good. Because I gather, because I sing songs and quote scripture, because my family goes to church, that's what we do. I'm saved. No, we must repent of sin and turn to and rely on Jesus for salvation and thereby receive that salvation. There was a young man that I talked to yesterday after the service who was coming to that realization. And so it's exciting and it took me back. And I just think, though, we would all be sobered. And I think it's a sobering thing to think about how many evangelical churches are filled. You know, I think more than any of us would ever like to acknowledge of people who have a false sense of security. And on the day, that day, the day of judgment, they will not be saved. They will be condemned because they've not crossed the line. They've not truly repented in a way that is described, the nation of Israel repent. And so I would just, you know, if you're here today and you're listening, like the Bible says, make your calling and election sure. Like make sure. Pray and ask the Lord, like to reveal, you know, are you where you're supposed to be? And that is in him having repented and received his salvation and taken advantage of the fountain of cleansing that's available now.

Final Encouragement And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Don't be 12 inches away, is whatever. Sometimes, you know, 12 inches, if you're listening to the podcast, distance between your head and your heart. Like you can be 12 inches of having knowledge, but not having come to. And I think that's the beautiful picture here. If you haven't gotten to that place of mourning of your sin, like you said, that individual accountability, too many people are like, well, I was raised in a Christian home or cultural Christianity, that this is just what we believe, rather than truly mourning, coming to that repentance, that relationship. And so we're saved to the body, but we come through that individual repentance and being cleansed by that blood by yielding, by surrendering our lives to that. So, yeah, if that's something you're struggling about, as always, we'd love to talk to you. If you have questions, please reach out why we do this, because we want to just help you grow in your faith. And if you're seeking, searching, we'd love to talk to you. If you have questions, uh just help you see where God's word really leads us in that direction. So well, we're gonna maybe finish this week working through Zacharillan. So hopefully this has been a great journey. Old Testament, New Testament, all of God's word's amazing. But we hope you enjoy this time, and we'll look forward to seeing you next week.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yep.