Dylan Sponseller, A Journey of Redemption and Resilience.

This episode delves into Dylan's captivating life story from her upbringing on a ranch in Alturas, California, under her mother's guidance. The podcast reveals Dylan's resilience and ingenuity as she navigates the challenges of operating a horse training business across Idaho and Arizona. Dylan shares her real estate decisions, shaped by her mother's legacy and hard work. As the conversation unfolds,  Jeremy and Dylan recount their shared love for branding and cowboy culture, while inspiring listeners with tales of adventure, perseverance, and living courageously. Dylan's story is full of hard times and what happens when you don't give up. Tune in next week for part two. 

You can find Dylan on all social media @dylansperformancehorses

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Hey guys, welcome back to the Wild Courage Podcast. Today I'm with my old friend Dylan in beautiful, sunny downtown Wickenberg, Arizona. Um, we tried to do this this fall, it didn't work out very well.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I felt like when I had no voice, you probably didn't want to try to do this.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

You texted me that morning, you were like, I can't talk. And I ran into Gussie like in Winnamuck or something. And I was like, was Dylan sick? And she's like, she literally woke up and could not talk that morning.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

It was bad. And I'm like, I I wanted to do it so bad. And I'm like, I just I can't make myself have a voice.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's this is the perfect time to do it.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Oh, yeah. Does it get any better than Arizona in the winter?

SPEAKER_04 1:01

No, we were just talking before we jumped on here of how incredible Arizona is in the wintertime.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah. Well, you get a lot of oh, people are like, oh, I can't believe you go down there. It's so expensive. I'm like, I might be broke, but I'm broke in the sun in Arizona. Like I could be broke at home in the winter. Like freezing. Yeah, this is way better.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Yeah. I mean, I'm I would imagine the math on like what it would cost to cover your big arena.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

So I didn't look into my big arena, but the last couple years ago, I looked in really hard because I was losing a lot of clients over the winter time because I'm just not set up. And as much as I've led on with uh, I'm an outside facility, like it they don't understand until they show up and there's mu like, yeah, and we can't ride. And so I looked into really hard how to cover my cutting pin, which is 100 by 100, and basically it was gonna be a half a million. Oh, and I'm like for half a million dollars, I I don't know how to make that work, especially where you're gonna have to borrow money because they don't take payments on those buildings. Right. So I kind of thought, well, maybe I ought to look into buying something down here. And so last summer I pulled the trigger and it's happening. Yeah and it was still cheaper. I mean, I'm gonna not have a house. I haven't had a house a long time anyway. So I mean, why not?

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Yeah, you're like the I think my wife would be able to live like you. Like if there's a barn in horses and a nice facility, it's like who's inside anyway?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Well, and especially if you don't have to be at home in the wintertime or we're not anywhere. Idaho's great in the summer, Arizona's great in the winter. We spend 90% of the time outside anyway. So who needs a house?

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Um, how many trips, how many horses did you haul down here this fall?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

We hauled 28 down here. Oh my gosh. So I had made two loads in my 12 horse, and uh the gal that works for me hauled a load and her camper, and yeah, it's was uh it's a trek, especially when I've been telling her how cool it was down here and she didn't get to see it for four days in the daylight. We'd drive in the dark, leave in the dark, do it a couple more times.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Yeah, it's so weird being back here because I spent all of the 90s in here till like 2001. Um, every winter I came down here and just in Wickenburg. Yeah. Yeah, I had uh I had a s the sweetest gig because it's so seasonal, but I had all the shoeing contracts at all the dude ranches.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

So I would do seven horses a day at the different ranches. Like I'd be at one ranch for two or three days and then go to the smaller ones one day a week. And by the time I got through them all, it was time to start over, so it was like perfect. And then um, if you're heading out uh north of town, you go up on the hill, um, there's some green irrigated pastures right on the highway. Yeah. And I leased that place to, and down below is a barn and stuff. So I would have like six or seven outside horses to ride in the afternoon. So it was like perfect. Yeah, perfect. But I hadn't been down here in a long time until about three or four years ago. And it was before the roundabout and all the team roping took over. And I literally was like, I got here at night and I was like, I was lost trying to find my motel room.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:15

I'm I couldn't believe it's grown how this has changed.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Just in the past five years of me coming down here, I can't believe how much it's changed and grown.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

Yeah, it's the spot to be for sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Oh man. And just the further you get west of town, I mean, the places that are going up, it's grown so much and the price increase, like it's crazy. It's been yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Yeah, I think that's what's cool too about when you're young and hungry like you, is like you're doing what you have to do to make it work, and you might be dirt poor, but someday your assets, your real estate assets, because you're in both the right spots. Yeah, like land is just gonna keep going up.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

I kind of as well as it did work out for me in the places that I did buy, and before it got really expensive in the spots I feel like Especially in Idaho. Yeah.

unknown 5:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

Because you got that bought before the big Yeah, it was right before.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah. I bought one place up there and flipped it. Um, never lived in it or anything, and then I bought that place.

unknown 5:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Yeah. And and you're I haven't seen your place in Arizona yet, but your place in Idaho is sweet.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Uh sadly, I think this place is sweeter. Really? I set this one up for less walking. I didn't think about that as much at home, and I'm like, that's a long ways to the arena every day. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's kind of centralized around the tack room, which is perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

Yeah. Yeah. So we were talking before we hit the butt record button, but it's fascinating to me of like when I hear your name um and I'm and you're not around, I'm like, oh, that's my friend. Like, and I'm like sometimes like boastful and like, she's my friend, like I know her. Or inside I feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

And as I as we were kind of setting this up on my when I was driving from Texas over to here, I was like, I don't really know her at all. Like we know each other from branding.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Um, I was when Jayton Lord was still in Idaho, he would I was his plus one to all the brandings because he's from around there and knew everyone. And I think that's where we first is through Jayton. And then he left, and then we still would just see each other around at brandings mostly.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Right. The the fun days.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

The fun days, yeah. And I just remember being like, there's there's a handful of gals that when when I see them at a branding, I'm like, oh crap, it's go time. Like I I brag about you all the time uh about how good of a cowboy you are. Like your your work in the arena in the performance horse world is like that stands on on its own, but it's not that often that I think that people that are that good as you are in the arena, but your background is from out in the sagebrush. Yeah. And so I know you're from Alturas, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

And I know you have a place in Idaho and Arizona. And I know that you're a really good roper and a good horseperson. And that's about it. I think somebody told me you worked at the ZX for a while.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

But did you grow up in Al Tourist?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, I grew up in Alturas. Um, my mom had a place there, and we uh my mom's I kind of took after my mom. My mom's kind of the tough one of I think she's tougher than I am in some ways. Bought a place and was a single mom and raised me and ran a ranch, and we grew up pretty, pretty poor. It was a very hard understanding it as a kid to not understand why everybody else was getting, you know, toys and fun things, and I would get hay hooks and muck boots for Christmas. It was new gloves. New gloves, yeah. Some clothes. But thermal underwear. Yeah, we were I was there. Um, my mom didn't sell the ranch till about six years ago to move to Idaho when I wasn't coming back. But I grew up there till I was about 16 and left for a while and then came back for a few years.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

So no siblings?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Um actually I do have a half-sister um on my dad's side, but she never knew I existed until um after my dad died, and I had to reach out to her to find her.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

But you knew about her?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

I knew about her, but I just it was always kind of a touchy subject with dad. Just uh we didn't we just didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yeah, that's the way family stuff goes sometimes. So your dad wasn't but your dad wasn't in around.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah, my dad actually my dad was always around. I was just kind of uh my mom and dad dated for a little while and accidents happen and I'm here and dad always kind of made a point to be in my life, but he wasn't he was always he was a carpenter and so he was gone a lot.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

So But he lived in Al Tourist?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

No, he actually um lived in Turmo, which is in between Alturas and Susanville.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

So you would see him occasionally.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, he would um he would actually go to Arizona a lot and like have a Sioux and had a bunch of jobs down there in the winter. Uh worked at a Reno a lot, so it was you might see him three weekends a month, or you might not see him for three months.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

But and that was kind of the flow of your whole life.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I uh yeah. My mom had uh basically the love of her life. She met when I was two, and he kind of was a big part of raising me.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Oh, yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:38

And w you had your mom had a ranch, like run cows?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yep. Yep. We had a couple hundred cows and ran a ranch.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Was her family in?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

No. No, her family had nothing to do with animals, and she just my mom was one of the first women loggers and she saved a bunch of money, logged trees for 20 years, and uh put that down payment on the ranch and somehow struggled through it and made it work.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Well, your story's already making a lot more sense. Way more sense. I mean, that didn't take very long to figure out where you came from.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

That's what was modeled to you. If you want a dream, yeah, she went in and literally for 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

She told me she's like, You want something bad enough, you can have it.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

You just and she showed you how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah. You know, when as a young age, it was really hard to understand. But now that I'm older, I'm like, man, my mom set me up for life. Like she taught me how to make money, save money, work hard. Like those are the things that matter. It's not the material things. It's building something. Damn. And my mom built something out of nothing.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Literally.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Which the that's really hard to do for anyone.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

For anyone.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

But for a single mom.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

What what did your stepdad do?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Um, so he basically was just a cowboy. Um a very handy one. I didn't get to see it as much growing up. He uh he was sick and he had emphysema. So as I got old enough to kind of be around it more, he got sicker and um he died when I was eleven.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Oh geez. So your constant like kind of father figure that you had from two to that was Jess.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Like Jess was a huge part of my life. Yeah. And it was I think I feel grateful that I got to experience Jess, my dad, but for my mom, like she just felt like everybody around her died. Like, I think that's something that I kind of didn't know any different, you know, now, but for her, it was like everybody just died.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Yeah, there's there's probably some weird sense of ab of abandonment in that for her, of like, here I am again on my own.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Yep. I think so. Like I have a hard time trying to understand where she comes from in those moments because I I can't understand, but I do get it with you know, not having a dad around.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Yeah. That's so and if he was sick a lot, it was really up to you and mom too.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah. Yeah. She pulled me out of school a lot. Um, I went to public school till basically the sixth grade, and she pulled me out of school a lot to come help. So it was kind of just me and her against the world. Like that's kind of how it's always been.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

So you guys probably was that relationship ever fractured as you got older? Did did you go through like resentment because of how you were raised at all?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

You know, there was a part that got fractured, but it wasn't over it wasn't over that. It was I think really what fractured our relationship was I, well, to I guess sum it up a little more, I found Jess dead on the floor, watched my mom suffer with it. My dad died, had a heart attack when I was 16. We were working cows. So, like going through all of that, it got to a point to where some other stuff that happened in my life that I'm like, I like I can't be here anymore. And I was homeschooled from sixth grade on, and I graduated two years early, and I just kind of freaked out and was like, I'm I'm done. I'm out of here, I can't be here anymore. And it just broke my mom's heart because she's like, You just can't leave. Like, I graduated high school. I'm bye. I have my own truck, my own trailer, I'm leaving.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Well, and it's it's easy when we have the advantage of hindsight.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Now at the time To look back, but in that moment, it's like everywhere you look is like probably so much pain and reminders of loss.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah. Well, and my mom was so she was struggling so much in her own life, she kind of like I was kind of getting missed in some ways. And with my own battles of what was happening, it's hard for her to see what I was going through.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

And to check in on you and be like, you lost the two men that have been combined father figures in your life, and now they're both gone. How are you doing? But she was in so much pain for herself that there was no attunement to your heart or how you how are you doing? Are you right, are you okay? Do you need to talk to someone or any of that?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I just kind of learned to put on a face for her at that time in my life because it was watching her struggle with it, you know, now and she can kind of sit there and tell me, like, I just I feel like I let everybody die and and you're the one that missed out. And in my mind, I'm like, you like that's not your fault. Like you there's nothing you could do, you know, but the situations I I'll you know, I'll never understand how she sees it, but in my mind, she couldn't have fixed it. It's just life.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Yeah, and there's something interesting that of a parallel in our story anyway, is when my mom and dad divorced, um, I was like six, and I went with my dad, which is kind of rare, right? Usually you go with mom.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

And I remember we moved to Montana from Idaho just to get because he was heartbroken. And I just remember my dad as a little boy, like wailing himself to sleep every night.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

And like going into, and at the time, of course, I didn't know it, but like I gotta rescue my dad. Like, I got to be perfect, I can't have a bad day, I've got to fill in. Uh you know, your your little soul and heart is like trying to figure out a way to make them feel better. Right. Did you ever experience any of that? Like, you know, I gotta be strong. I can't deal with my how I'm feeling in all of this because I gotta be strong for her.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Then that's exactly like now looking back, I kind of wish I'd have stayed for her, but I just I just couldn't do it. There was there was a few things that happened that just broke that just broke me to be there.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Yeah, you had to get out for your own like safety, probably. Of your like nervous system and your heart.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah. Uh just looking around was a constant reminder of of all the bad things. And and I just at 16 I just couldn't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

Yeah, and there's I mean there's grace, I think, built in for like y you know, you're familiar with like what we how we cope with things is like fight, flight, or freeze. And I was really good at flight.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah. If things got bad, I just left. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

And I did that for 15 years. Like if anything got too bad, or if I started getting close with someone, yeah. Like if I was dating a really great girl and I was like, I'm gonna f this up, and I can't let myself feel anything, and I would just like literally like and it was perfect because it was built in. I would go to Wyoming in the summer and I would come to here in the winter.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

It's worked out easy.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

Yeah, so it was like in at the time I didn't know. I was like, no, this is what cowboys do.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

It's a perfect excuse.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Yeah, but knowing what I know now, I was like, oh, I was just on the run because I couldn't handle any more.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

You know, you just build up like self-protective measures to protect yourself. You you coping mechanisms, and sometimes they're super unhealthy, and sometimes it looks just like leaving.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

I mean, I really tried to drown mine, and I really think that just made it worse.

unknown 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah. Alcohol's never the the the answer.

SPEAKER_04 17:50

So it turns out it is a depressant.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

The bastards were right.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I know. This whole time.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Yeah, I did all the things. I all the coping mechanisms. Because when you're in so much pain, it's like, I don't know how to get through the day without I mean I don't know if it made it.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I guess at least at home there was somebody around. And then when I left, I was basically by myself, and then I was just left with all my own thoughts, and it was just You can't outrun them. You can't outrun them. And I didn't have I didn't have a clue how to deal with them with nobody around to help. So it was just I'd work all day, and then at nights I would sit there and be stuck with my own mind that I couldn't live with, and I would just try to drink them away.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

And 16 with a fake ID could do that. That's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

So you okay, so 16, you load up your horse trailer and your truck.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

You're very independent, probably had a paid-off truck and trailer. Where did you go?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I'm Merced. I went to Atwater, California for a cow camp job. And I took by myself, yeah. There was actually supposed to be another guy that was supposed to be there and help me, but he got fired before he showed up. So I got down there and we had uh or I had I had 1,500 year lens and 400 pair to take care of. And so I just did it by myself.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Built to it.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Was that through the summer?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

That was through the summer, yep.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Was it a seasonal? Was it just a summer gig?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, it was kind of a summer gig. I uh I kind of ended up quitting. Apparently kind of got fired, then I kinda quit. Uh turns out when you're the it was a contracted deal. So I was just supposed to take care of somebody else's cows, and you know, the middle guy was making the money off the lease. And uh his kid would show up and was really trying to sleep with me, and I was no. And so he fired me one day, and then his dad hired me back, and then it kind of happened again, and I'm like, I'm done. Like I do not have to sit here and put up with this shit. So I'm leaving. I called the guy that owned the cows and I said, Hey, it's my last day. Everything looked good yesterday, so whatever happens from tomorrow, I can't tell you. Yeah. Dang. And we ended up having a very good relationship, and I ended up working for him for nine years later. Had a different place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

So the boss's kid. That had to be a scary feeling being up there by yourself with and how old was he-ish?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Mid-20s.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Oh, gee, and you're 16.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, that was not what I needed in my life.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

No, you already had enough going.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I had enough going, and I guess to elaborate on that a little more, uh, before I left home, uh, somebody that was supposed to be my best friend uh drugged me and took advantage of me. And and I just like I was just freaking out in my own head. Like I you you sit there and be around everybody that I just couldn't be around. You know, and my mom was missing the things that were important. And man, it was that was the darkest part of my life.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

But so when I left and all that was happening, I'm like I mean, nobody knows what's happening in your head, but at the same time, like you're this is not what I need. Like I'm uh hard enough trying to drown my own thoughts right now, and you're you're just making it worse. And I met some really good people down there that uh took me in when I quit because I had nowhere to go. And uh actually met him because I was passed out in the backseat of my pickup. My mom couldn't get a hold of me. And somehow, some neighbor knew this guy down there that lived two miles down the road, and he's like, I can't find her, like she's not her truck's here, like knew the ranch I was at, had a key to the gate, like it couldn't have worked out any better. Yeah. And so when I finally woke up, I went over there and called mom and I'm like, I gotta go meet this guy. Like, I've I feel really bad, like to put everybody in this situation. And um his name is Stony Rose, and we are still friends to this day. He checks in on me about four or five times a year. And uh him and his girlfriend took me in and they were they were great. I ended up staying with them for a month until I got another job and and uh they're they were great.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

How cool like to this point in your story to have these things happen and they're all kind of around men. Yeah. Either them dying or doing horrible things to you.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

Or trying and trying to. Yeah. Like to try to to try to work through that at that age, and then to have this man like come in and like it must have felt like rescue.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

And like safety.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

They were so good to me. Like they just him and his his girlfriend Kelly, they'd been together for years, and like I just felt like I had a second set of parents that took me in. They didn't even know me.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. They had just they were I mean, we stayed friends when Stoney and I are still friends. Kelly and I were friends for a long time. She ended up killing herself and of course that just crushed him, and I just I don't even know how to be there for him.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Just uh Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Miserable thing.

SPEAKER_04 23:13

When people go through stuff like that to know how to show up for them.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah. I don't know. It was I am met so many good people over the years that made an impact in my life when I needed them. They didn't they might not have known it or the reasons why, but they made a huge impact.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

Yeah, that's that's amazing. Like I look back at my life too, and I can even coming into Wickenburg yesterday I got really sick one time with pneumonia, and of course I was still drinking and not taking care of myself. And I ended up in the emergency room in the hospital for like a week. Because my lungs were filled with fluid, both of them, and it was like it was looking pretty bleak. And I got through it. And there was a guy an old guy in Wickenberg that I shot his mules. He had three mules. And he paid for my hospital bills.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

Nick Turner. He's since passed away, but I know what you're saying, like I can look back. I have so many of those stories where God's like sent someone in in my life to like just bump the the course of the direction I was headed, which was the wrong way. Right. And it was like I would just bump into someone and they would just kind of course correct me a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah. At the moment you needed.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

At the moment the perfect moment I needed it. So after that you had you were saying that you had this one job for like eight years for the guy that owned the cattle that Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

So when I um after I stayed at uh Stony and Kelly's, I ended up getting a job um for somebody that actually used to know my dad. No way. In Big Oak Flat. Like it was just the craziest story. Like I get there and uh this guy, Bob McDowell, he hires me in Big Oak Flat and tells me all these stories about my dad. So it was like this cool thing that I got to learn all these things about my dad and all these stories that I'd never knew because I knew he was in Chinese camp for a long time, but I had no idea. I don't even know how I met Bob. It just like just worked out. That's amazing. This guy and he hires me and I take care of some cows for him and start a bunch of Colts and stayed there and finished that job out. And then when he was done there, I ended up going back and I went to work for the ZX and uh stayed there for a while.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Where where were you at?

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Uh in Paisley, Oregon.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

I know, but I grew up there. Oh, okay a little bit. In at what camp were you at?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Uh oh God. He called it the MC. It was all it was. I don't know. It was super neat. Like you just pulled down this draw and there was this little cabin, little one bedroom outside shower. Like it was cool. It was it was a fun experience, like just to be there.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Yeah, I loved Paisley. Yeah. Of all the places I lived, that was the place that I did not want to leave.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah. So in so that was in Big Oak Flat. So in Paisley, I worked for um Wade and on the Red House crew.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah, because they had the Cogan crew crew and the red house crew, and I worked on the red house crew. I was the first woman they'd ever hired there.

SPEAKER_04 26:21

No way.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

And uh they told me anything happens in the bunkhouse because you live in the bunkhouse with the guys, like you're gonna be the one that gets fired. I'm like, I I fully understand. So I I spent quite a while there. Um, I basically spent the fall and winter there, and uh my mom's she had a boyfriend and he had to have open heart surgery, so I had to go home and take care of the ranch for her while she dealt with that.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

How long ago was that? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Um I was 19 when I weren't went to work there.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Man, you lived a lot of life in three years.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

And saw a lot of country.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Saw a lot of country, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Well, it also makes sense why you're so handy because you've been doing it a long time.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

I wanted so bad to be as good as the boys, and that as much as they really didn't want me around, I just was Yeah, how was that experience of the ZX?

SPEAKER_04 27:12

And I don't want and I'm not asking for any names or anything because I probably know a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

You know some of them, I'm sure you know a lot of them. Uh, you know, there was some guys that were pretty good, like it was never a welcoming feeling by any means. Like then there was a couple of them that were not very nice and would really like to get you hurt and just they'd go out of their way too. They wanted me to quit. Like it wasn't uh and you were doubling down. Oh, I was I was gonna give it everything I had. And like Calboss, I I really think he just kind of hired me as a joke to see how long it would last. And I ended up being good friends with Wade. Like he was awesome. Like he took the time, like, because we all would rope our own horses off the ropes. And when you went for your first day, like, like I roped mine, but Wade, like later on, Wade's like, because you can only get three loops. Like, if you missed one after you you missed, you know, two loops and you didn't catch on 30 mystery, you're out and they had to rope your horse for you.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

And that probably comes with a lot of scrutiny if that's oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Sitting and just sitting there and just having a lot of things. How nervous were you that first day? I was so nervous. I just didn't want to screw up. Like, don't give them any reason to be like Do you remember if you caught? Oh, yeah, I caught them all. Yep. Yep, I caught them all.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Nobody ever had to rope your horse for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Not that day. There was other days. Yeah, sure. There was other days, but Wade was cool. Like Wade, Wade kind of like took me in in a different way. You know, he he showed me how to rope horses a little better off the ropes, or you know, he spent time and we like Wade and I actually had a lot of good conversations of just talking, which was really appreciated. And when I left, he gave me he gave me two horses and told me I was always welcome back because I I felt really bad when I'm like, I'm sorry, but I I have to go home. Like I'm needed, it's just me and my mom. Like, I gotta go home. And he's like, No, you go. We got it covered. You ever want to come back here? You're always welcome.

SPEAKER_04 29:04

That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

But I I enjoyed Wade. Wade was to to this day, the whole joke of the whole thing is, you know, I had a girl here that could out cowboy and out shoe you guys. And I'm just that just makes my whole day of course that he still says that.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

Because I mean, to be a young woman in that environment, like I can just picture it and how rough that would be.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Well, and he had no idea how old I was. I'd met him in the bar one night. So they all just thought I was 21 or over that. So then the one day, I think it was my birthday, and they had said something about, well, how old are you? And I was like, Oh, I just turned 19. It was just like a kick in the face to Wade, like, really, I hired a 19-year-old girl. I had no idea. Stoker. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

In the in the bunkhouse with a bunch of dudes. Like, there's gotta be some liabilities there.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

There's gotta be. Just thinking that, well, I guess at least she was 18 when she started. I don't know what was going through his mind, but I'm sure he was not impressed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

How was the bunkhouse? Is it was it fine?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

You know, it was okay. There was a lot of comments like, you know, like you should be in the kitchen. You shouldn't be in here. Like, I got I was a little thinner skinned at times, but I learned to get thick skinned real fast.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Oh, you or you you're gonna quit. Yeah, you're can't.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

And I wasn't about to quit. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Gosh dang, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I didn't know all that.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah. Yeah. I went there and then um ended up uh ended up at the PX for a little while.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

After you went home to help your mom?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yep. I went home for a while to help mom.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

And uh how was that going back? Because you left obviously for a lot of very certain reasons.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

And then how did you feel driving back there?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Were you like you know, I felt like I just had to swallow all my stuff to be there for her.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Again.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah. And I was okay with it. Like it was it was mentally hard. Um but it was just it was me and her. Like, regardless, like I had to step up to to be there for her.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

And how long did you have to stay there to help her out?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Well, actually, um I stayed there for a while um and I ended up kind of getting stuck there. Um got a couple jobs and ended up being there for six years.

SPEAKER_04 31:27

A couple jobs like town jobs?

SPEAKER_01 31:29

No. Um I was working at the auction yard and uh it was and then I went to work for Harlan, which was who I took care of cattle down in Atwater. So I ended up Yeah, or it was it was longer than that. It was I was 19, so I s finally moved away at 27, so it was yeah, eight years.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

So you were just kind of dayworking and working at the sale barn and helping your mom out. And were you living at home?

SPEAKER_01 31:53

No, I bought a place. Um I bought a little place in Al Tourist, nothing special, just a little double wide and few acres, and uh worked at the yard a few days a week, and then I worked at for Greg Harlan and took care at the Lakeshore Ranch in Davis Creek, and I had a bunch of other jobs. I I worked for Le Grands, I I just day worked for kind of anybody and everybody.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

Where where do you remember the first time you like saw really broke horses?

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah. Um, I was actually like 14 and uh Richard Caldwell moved next door a few miles down the road. Um and I don't even know how we ended up meeting him, but we met him and my dad built a hay barn for him, and he had my dad kind of made the deal, hey, like you let Dylan come over here and ride a little bit, like I kind of cut you a break. And of course, Richard was I mean, he'd been the handiest person I'd ever met to that point, and I was just in awe.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

And then like how do you do this with a horse, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah, like I was in awe, like I always kind of wanted to train horses, but seeing the level that he was at, and we went to the fraternity and watched some of the finals one year when it used to be in Reno, and I just I just remember sitting there and I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this, but like this is what I want. Like, I'm I'm over. Like this is this is my dream. And and I've lost sight of it for some of the years in my own battles, but I always wanted it. It was just, it seemed so far out of reach at times.

SPEAKER_04 33:25

Well, yeah, I mean, I remember the first time I saw a really broke horse. And and and I'm not sliding like the ranch bridle horses that I grew up seeing. Like my dad and my uncle made nice horses, and those guys at the ZX made nice horses, and some of the other ranches I grew up on.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:42

But the first time I saw like a broke one. A broke, broke one, I was like, it just to your point, it just is like, how do you get there's so many steps to get there, and it's like a daunting task to think about like getting one that broke. No, but I used to go to some like Rieta Ropens in California and they would have the stock horse class. So I showed against him some and was around him.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah. His horses were so cool.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

He was riding that Palomino horse when I was yep.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I remember the big black horse because there was a moment where Richard was gone for a few days, and she and Nancy, his wife, she's like, Don't tell him, but I'm gonna let you ride him. And it was just the most the best day. Like, yeah, no, I was just in awe. Like, and and the amount of things that he did teach me over that summer, and like they would let me just come haul down there and go ride, and mom would let me take the truck and trailers because it was down a three-mile dirt road and a half a mile on the pavement. So I wasn't gonna get caught or anything.

SPEAKER_04 34:42

But oh yeah, I was so that's where you got your first got bit.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

I got bit hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Did I want to jump back a little bit? Like just when you when you left home and like when you were cowboying and on those camps, what did the drinking follow you?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Oh yeah. Like when you were by yourself in that camp and yeah, it was I don't know if there was days that I was sober when I was alone. I just yeah. And it just made it worse. And I you know, I'd had friends, but none of them were around. So I was just at that time in life I didn't know how to sit and talk about it because I really didn't know what I was feeling, but it was just all the emotions that would run through you that were just just haunting you in your own head.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Yeah, I I did pretty good when I was like with the crew because you could hide it easier. Yep. Because it was like, oh, it's the weekend or it's whatever, and then you're gonna go do this, or it's somebody's birthday, or you know, you could I could socially hide it. But I remember the first job, year-round job I got was in Tinsleep, Wyoming on this ranch, and Tinsleep's like a couple hundred people, and I lived like thirty minutes from town by myself.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

And that's when it was like I that's the first time I started drinking alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Is when I was in isolation because I I couldn't sleep.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

I couldn't turn it off, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yeah. I I just couldn't figure out how, like, I remember, you know the paper would haunt me as a kid because I could there was always this little article that I'll never forget that says, like, all these things are happening to you or have happened. Like, come to our, you know, our group meetings this day a week or whatever. And I just like I was so embarrassed and ashamed of things that I shouldn't have been, but not knowing how to feel about them. But I'm like in a small town, like, how am I supposed to go and then not have everybody know? Like, I just I couldn't do that.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:50

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

So you're bought your own place, you're helping your mom day working around. Was you were still riding young horses, I would imagine, all through that. And were you selling some, like going to sales or yeah, so I were you supplementing your income by yeah, I was trading horses.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Um basically I I gave up uh I wanted my non-pro card. So I thought that not knowing where to start, I thought starting as a non-pro would be a better way to do it. So I quit riding outside horses because I'd rode them for years and got my non-pro card. And then I finally was able to um I showed my first fraternity horse in 2013, I think. I was 23 when I showed my first one.

SPEAKER_04 37:39

How did you get from taking some lessons with Richard Caldwell to riding in a lot of sagebrush? Yeah, uh you have to fill in some gaps here for me.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

So it was kind of a whim. Uh I had been trying to get better horses over the years, so we would go to the fraturity sale, and of course that was kind of when the crash would all happen. So I'd been going for, you know, since I was 19 and buying some. I didn't even know what x-rays were. Like I just, if it was cheap, I bought it. I thought it looked good and I could make money on it. And uh I bought a sorrel mare there one year, and I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this happen. Like, I'm gonna save up, I'm gonna make it happen. And the kind of the year before that, I ended up meeting Brandon Stabler at some little ranch horse shootout deal. And I had broke my hand, and it was like a winner series deal where if, you know, you won the series, you won a rifle. And I broke my hand at the last one because he'd won one and I'd won one. And so it came down to it came down to that last one, and I missed my first loop. And I was so in awe of Brandon. He got up there when they gave him his rifle, and he goes, That girl with that broken hand, she almost beat me.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Like I just it hurt so bad. I I caught my second one, but I was so struggling with the first one.

SPEAKER_04 38:57

So you're close.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah. And Brandon kind of ended up being a huge part of my career. I he was in Klama Falls, so any chance I could get to actually go ride an arena, because I didn't have one, that I mean, I was kind of just winging it like, but was running and stopping. Like, can't do that outside in the stage brush. So Brandon's like, just get up here, come ride for a few days. And so I spent a lot of time up there. Any chance I could get away, even if it was for a day or two, they he put me up, they let me stay in the house. Like, they they were awesome. So I'd go up there and we'd run and stop, and he'd yell at me and it was awesome. Pull kick. Yeah, pull kick. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 39:36

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

No idea.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

I just remember my like the reason I ask is because I think you get a certain point and you get to a show, and everybody I guess expects you to know all the rules.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

Because the first show I went to, like, it was uh I forget what pattern it was, but I was so scared about memorizing the reigning pattern, right? And whatever pattern it was, um the the the turnarounds were towards the end of the pattern. And my horse had a big uh long mane and it and she could turn around and it flopped over, and I reached down and flopped her mane back over. And I like I got through clean and I was like, I'm gonna be at least a 71 or something, you know, like I didn't have any big mistakes, maybe a 70. And I remember getting off and loosing my cinch because I'd seen people do that. Yeah, no idea. Right. I'm walking to the gate and they're like, score for Jeremy Morris and cutting jewels, zero. And I'm like, I didn't do anything wrong. Right. And my buddy Ben Baylor was turning at the gate, and he's like, You dumbass, you can't touch your horse. I'm like, I don't know the rules. Yeah, I didn't know you couldn't do little things. All the rules of reaching under your rein to fix stuff and it's a rule contest, too. Man, I so how did you I'm just like trying to piece together like how did you go from there to like entering the fraturity?

SPEAKER_01 41:05

So, well, I mean, we had a lot of little like the fairs and the little ranch horse classes. So I'd been showing in those for years. So I was used to kind of so you knew the rules. Yeah, well, and as a kid, um, my mom kind of put me in like a little college class they would do in town that you could go take lessons, and I so I used to show pleasure horses and I jumped and I rode English. So being in the the arena was fine for me.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

And then I got into, you know, after Richard, I would go to the fairs and show on the Snaffle bit or the bridle of the ranch horse class. But the fraternity deal, I mean, I was so scared. No business. I missed the sign. Who knew you had to sign up in February or March? So, like, and it just crushed me because here I had to pay this $800 late fee. And I'm like, I don't just do I even go. And I mean, I get there and it's everybody's there. I've never showed this mare. Like, I had no clue what I was doing. Like, we just kind of showed up, we're just winging it. And uh how'd it go? You know, I think I was like a 206 or something in the herd, and we survived the rainwork, but I was the high score down the fence.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

No kidding.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yep. I ended up getting, I went up, went in the high score. I showed in the amateur class, and then I ended up winning sixth overall. So I won my whole entry feedback, and I was like, this is you in the world.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

Yeah, I'm on. Yeah. Here we go. Next, yep, next stop championship.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, yeah. From yeah, I just I remember seeing Flint Lee there because he was about the only person I knew. And Flint's like, Well, like, did you do all these things? And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I'm just here. And Flint kind of like helped me out a little bit, and and uh, because he'd been showing for years before I had, but I'd see him so much at the ranch rodeos and fairs and stuff that he knew me good enough to kind of step in and help me. So but yeah, I was lost.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

But you loved it. You were like, Oh yeah. Was that after was it after the faturity that you're like, this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_01 43:05

I mean, I knew at 14 when I saw it, that was what I wanted. I just I didn't know how to make it work every year. Where I mean, those entry fees are so expensive for me on cowboy wages. I'm like, man, so I just made it a point, like after I showed her that year, that I was gonna save up every year and go to one show. And I oddly had some great success at my one show. We went to, I went to the derby with her next year and uh ended up winning uh the amateur, the bottom, the non pros changed so much over the years, but I was I was like third in the non pro, second in the intermediate, third in the next one, and then I or win the next two bottom ones. Like so I ended up winning 9,000 there and uh got another fraternity horse. Brandon helped me a pile with that one, went back, won the non pro all the way down at this at the pre fraternity. And uh I just kind of made a point. I was gonna go to one big show every year.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

One bullet.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Yep, one bullet, which was really hard when I would drag my flatbed pickup and my stock trailer down there and unload and give her all like that.

SPEAKER_04 44:14

I mean, I've I went to the Snaphabit Churty to watch. I was showing horses for Jackson Landon cattle, and they brought me down to Reno to just kind of be there in case they needed anything.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

And I just some like putting myself in your shoes of showing up there with all those trucks and trailers, and everybody's there.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Oh, and I knew nobody.

SPEAKER_04 44:38

So you weren't intimidated because you didn't know who any of these people were?

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I mean, I I kind of knew who they were, but like I didn't know anybody personally.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Like the one, the one pre-paturity we went to, Brandon. Um, he kind of he helped me get through the herd work and uh the rain work, and then he said he had to leave. And he so we asked Lance Johnson, he's like, hey, like, watch out. Would you mind just like hanging out at the bottom of the arena, like tell her when to go? And and uh I'd had some trouble. I was I guess that was the Derby. That was the year I took that Marin Derby to her. And uh Lance, I just remembered sitting down there and I did not do very good in the first two events. My horse broke gate. I was way down at the bottom of the end, and we go down the fence and and uh I marked a 222. Dang. And Brandon calls Lance and he goes, How'd it go? And he tells him, and he's like, I was gonna tell her to go, but she just didn't need me. But the fence, I just always felt so much more comfortable in that one. But and that's that's kind of always felt like my event of the three.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

But did where's that mare at?

SPEAKER_01 45:44

I s uh she's still around. I've got babies out of her. Yep. That's pretty cool. She's kind of a sentimental mare, just my cursed one, and she can't lope, and half her babies don't lope either, but she's still sentimental. Keep trying. I just keep trying. I keep waiting for one to make it because I want to show one so bad, but they all lope just like her. They fall out of lead and don't change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

That's funny. Um, I'm just trying to trace, like, so you're you got your sight set on this, you're having some success early, which is which is amazing. Um, but all the heartache, all the all the we'll call them the things, they're you're you just you're just pushing them down still.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

And like, yeah, is the drinking still kind of No, like my so I kinda I met some good people along the way that kind of like maybe didn't really get to talk to them about what was going on, but they really just helped me being around them. Um while I was at home at one point, Destri had gotten hurt. Destri Campbell was a preacher in Alturis and started a lot of cults and he'd gotten hurt, and I'd got to kind of go spend some time with Destri and met a couple really good kids that were around him. And uh they just being around them helped me. And we talked about some things, you know, we didn't get a lot of in-depth and conversation of that, but being around those good-hearted guys, like kind of gave me a lot of peace of mind. When I when I was about 20, I really started to get my shit together and quit drinking a lot. And my 21st birthday, I was like, I'm I've got my sights set on bigger things and you know, gonna buy a place and really start buckling down and things changed a lot for me.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

So it was again kind of like we were talking about earlier, like God just kind of kept bringing some people in your life that kind of just kept pointing you in the right direction and helping you.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah. Even if we just didn't get to talk about it, just being around good people sometimes just goes a long way.

SPEAKER_04 47:51

I say this all the time, but there's that theory that you become like the five most people you spend the most time with.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

You are who you hang out with.

SPEAKER_04 48:01

It it's so true. I I try to tell my son this and all the young men that are in my life, like it your friends matter.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

They do.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Because they can fill in the gaps for you. So I love that that's part of your story and that you got like if you think about like what would what would have happened if you wouldn't have gone home, which seems like hard to go, but then you meet this group of people that really kind of helped in your story to like get past some hard stuff, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

I mean, honestly, I'd have probably wrecked my pickup or probably wouldn't be here. There was a lot of darker moments in there that I really just didn't know if I could live with myself anymore and had thought about it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, in my mind, as much as I thought about it and I wanted to not be here, I couldn't do it to my mom. My mom is what saved me. I I couldn't I couldn't be the next because it would have crushed her. I I'd have been the last of it.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Thank you for sh saying that part because I've talked to a lot of people on here that have had suicidal ideation. I think clinically is what it's called. And I I usually just kind of let it pass over, but lately um I had one last night that we were talking about. I'm like, w what stopped you? And I I love that thank you for sharing that part. Because I think it's important for people to hear of like if you're in that spot where you're like, because I've I've you know, I've been there, I've I've been there before too.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

And it's a dark place to be.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Uh just when I and I fully can't explain it, and I I haven't even heard anyone explain it that really landed with me, so I'm not even gonna try to very hard because I don't know that we're supposed to be able to understand what that depth of darkness feels like, but it's different for everybody, I think. It it it's it's relative, yeah. It's so d different and yet heavy for everyone to be in a place where everywhere you look, and I feel like our mind and our soul is searching for an out. And when all those doors are closed and you're just in a dark room with a bunch of doors, but they're all locked, yeah. That's probably the best I've ever been to explain it. It's like what how how do we make it through? And I I don't care how you make it through. It's like if it's your I'm glad that your mom had been through so much, you probably would come to the same conclusion every time in that thought process of I don't want to be here anymore.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Yeah. That's exactly. I mean, I can remember moments whether I mean I always packed a pistol or drive and like, what have you just drove off this, you know?

SPEAKER_04 51:04

There's a semi coming on this little narrow.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Like I've watched her go through so much pain, like I'm it's it's her and I against the world. Like if I did that to her, like I would never forgive myself.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Yeah, that's just really powerful. Yeah, thank you for sharing that part. Because the point is, is there's always hope.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

Cause you and I are sitting here.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

And we've made it through some hard stuff and a lot of similar things and and came to the same conclusion at some point of like, I I don't I don't see any way out of this except for this.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

And I've said this before, but like for me, I never was like that until I quit drinking. Because then I there was no more coping mechanism.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 51:50

I was stuck with dealing with it. Dealing with it. And that's when the first time I put a gun in my mouth was three days sober.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Spun the chamber, click.

SPEAKER_04 52:07

And I'm I'm I'm just grateful.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Look at how many lives you've touched now.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

Well, that's and and you are too with this.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I felt like that's something that's helped me a lot later. Like my dad used to always tell me, like, everything that happens in your life will make you stronger. And I I fought that meaning for so long, and and it was it was a very hard to understand. Like, okay, you know, and and my mom used to always say, like, you know, God only God lets bad things happen to some people because they can handle it. And I'm just thinking, like, all these things are happening for like because you think I'm strong, like that does not sound fair.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

It's not.

SPEAKER_01 52:49

And it and I I don't even know how to explain it all because I don't think I ever will. But over the years, you're part of the reason I wanted to do this, like when you asked me, was if it helps one person, that is all that matters. I I'd have wished somebody had been there to see me or or understand what I was going through. And I was blessed with some really good friends and people that showed up that were there, even if they didn't understand that I mean, we're not the people we are because we're just us. It's from everything that's happened.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

Yeah. And and the and again, the right people being in at in the perfect time. And again, we have the advantage of hindsight now, but it's like we were already kind of talking, like I look back at my life and I'm like, oh, I don't know what I would have done if and the same thing, I like you've said it a couple of times. It's like, it's not like I was sitting down and telling anyone my story and all the deep heartache I went through and the the bad, bad things, but because we don't have a language for it when we're especially when we're younger, because there's something I would tell myself, if anybody really knew me, there's no way I would be acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

For the things that have happened to me that aren't even my fault.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Right. And that is a real feeling.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Like the sh it's shame.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

It's shame. Like the there's you're I I mean, I felt so much shame and embarrassment that I was like, I don't even know how you tell somebody this.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

And you know, how how do you explain it or because you know that if if if like I I just knew the outcome, so I wouldn't even go there. Like if if especially with sexual abuse for from for and I'm only speaking for myself, but I'm like, if you knew this thing about me, even though it wasn't my fault, yeah, you would never look at me the same.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah. That's been a huge fear.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

And I would rather die than feel your rejection and you pulling back from me because of these things.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:53

And and it's so weird because I've done a lot of bad things in my life. And it's like I expect to feel some uh blowback from that. Because I've made bad choices and I've hurt people, all the things, right? But what's so fascinating about especially sexual abuse, again, speaking for myself, is like I I can't I can't calibrate that with how people are gonna respond to that to something that wasn't my fault, that I didn't ask for, that I and so it's it's like I'm taking this to my grave.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Like I felt like that for a long time. It was the the shame of it and like even now being my age, like the thing that it takes from you, you will never get back. Like you can figure out how to cope with it however you can for yourself, but it takes something from you that you will never get back.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

I've never heard it put that way. And I agree.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

It's uh I don't know, I feel like in some ways, like it's taken a lot of my vulnerability that I have fought to kind of get back over the years.

SPEAKER_04 56:12

Yeah, you because you gotta be protected. Yeah, you gotta get hard and you can't Yeah, it that's a whole thing, like just intimacy, right? Which is so much more than just sex.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

But it's like I don't I don't know that I know what that really means sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

You know, and I think that's a hard understanding, especially like the few people I have talked to about over the years, especially whether it's being in a relationship or a friend or or, you know, how you're trying to explain it, it's it's such a hard thing that I I don't think a man can understand that feeling. I think they can really try to understand, but the vulnerableness that women probably already feel a little bit, anyways, like it just intensifies it so much. It it does. It just takes a part of your soul. Cause in me, in my mind, like sex is never something you just hand out, right? Like if I'm there, like that's a meaningful thing. Like I've never been one to hand things out like that, and that meant something. So when you take that away, the one most precious thing that you give the person that you love or you care about, like you you took that.

SPEAKER_04 57:24

You robbed it was robbed.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

Yeah. And in a sense, too, I felt like because of the damage that it causes moving forward, because of the protective thing of like, oh yeah, I have to protect myself from feeling things or letting people in.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Panicking your own head for by yourself or in in the moments. Like that was my first time. Like it wasn't like I was I was 16. I was just a little kid, basically, you know, and like that's been a huge battle, and and it was a big battle in relationships for a long time. I think it's always be something you battle, but yeah, it's it's something you learn to cope with or know your limits or in the emotionalness limits, like, okay, I'm all right or I'm not all right. And I mean, you work I've worked hard at it over the years, and 99% of the time, I'm plum fine. I'm fine. I've learned to cope with it over the years, but that little bit of what it does take, I just can't get back.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

And I think just listening to yourself and knowing like what's not o when it's not okay.

unknown 58:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

Yeah, I whatever that looks like. But I think that that's important for anyone listening to this that shares part of our story in this area is like just listening to yourself and keeping that safe.

SPEAKER_01 58:52

I th I've thought about it a lot since you asked for this interview, and I thought, you know, I was I actually called one close friend and I'm like, man, like, and he didn't know this about me. And he's a really good friend and been through a lot of his own demons. And I'm like, hey, like, like I there's a part of me that really scared to do this. But if I just feel like there's always a thought, like, what are the people gonna think when they listen to this? Like, are they gonna look at me different? Because I don't want your sympathy. That's not what I want. But the young girls that listen to this, like, If I can do that for them, then I'm gonna suck it up and I'm gonna be here because I want to do that for them.

SPEAKER_04 59:29

Well, I I'm very grateful that you trusted me to share this part of your story. And I I do promise you this it's gonna help a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

That's that's what I that's the only thing that mattered to me. It's I would have probably given anything to know that there was somebody out there that did this right now for me back then.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Because I may not know them, but they'll know.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

Yeah, and that's the power of story, right? Of like validating when somebody says something and articulates it that you could never put to words. So let's just do this little exercise. Imagine that 16-year-old version of you hearing this right now. And the and the peace that would have brought you of just not feeling alone, knowing that there's someone else out there that has been through this, is like there's some healing element to being seen in through somebody else's story. That's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

But it was all gonna that it's going to be okay. That's what I would have wanted. Just to know that it was gonna be okay. And you know what? It will.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

It just And that's what you would tell that 16-year-old girl, knowing what you know now.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

You'd snarf it. Yeah, you're gonna be okay. Like there's bigger things ahead. This is it's a big thing, but it's gonna be a smaller thing someday.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Yeah, it does it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:01

And and that's the beauty of healing, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

Is the further away it gets, it's like you said, it's still there. Yeah. But the the sharp edge isn't as sharp.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

Yeah. And there'll always be moments that might be a little sharper. Like I get a little uh I feel like I do really, really good for so long. And that guy will somehow get a hold of me on social media. Like that's been a it's about a every once or twice or once, once a year, twice a year, and tell me what a bad person I am for ghosting you.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Like you were kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Oh no. Like it's like those are those days like that that crush me. Like after all these years, like you can still like make a fake account or whatever, just uh get in touch with me to tell me how what a piece of shit I am for not talking to you. Like, like it's just uh because he was always around. Like we my mom kind of helped raise him, and so he was always nobody knew. I've I have no idea how to tell somebody like that. So those days, those days are damn sure the harder ones of just reliving it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:19

I'm really glad that you shared that because I don't think I've ever shared this on here. I was married and my Leighton was like six, eight months old, and my wife and I were driving home from like Bible study, and I had a Blackberry because I was cool. And I had Facebook on it, and I'd just gotten Facebook and somebody that had done bad things to me reached out to me at like a friend request, and I saw his face. I had a nervous breakdown.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:59

I couldn't get out of the car. My wife was like she called our pastor, she called my dad, like I was she said I was just rocking back and forth in the car, like humming.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

Like complete just seeing his face. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

I I get it. Like that's uh like you worked so hard to bury it and not think about it and hide it and put on a face and get through it, and then it's just like this wall that hits you and just reliving every moment of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

It all snaps right back.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Yeah, and then it ha and then he did it about five years ago again. I was sitting in a parking lot and and I've done a lot of work since then, so I was I I I didn't have a big emotional reaction to it. I just blocked him again, showed my wife and then blocked it. I'm like, just leave me alone. That's it's it's so sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

There's so many good people, but there are some not very good people, and it really is hard sometimes to remember that there's there's good in people.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

Yep. Um when did you leave Alturas?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Like To move to Idaho.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Is that where you went next?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

Yep, I moved to Idaho. Um actually Telford had offered me a job at the Red Buff Bowl and Gelting sale one year, and I kind of laughed it off like kind of my old life, like whatever. Thank you though. And uh about six months later, um, my house had gotten robbed. And Al Tourist. Yep. And uh actually it was right before that I'd I'd kind of thought about my life a lot, and um it was kind of weird how it all came about. Like Telford offered me the job. Um and right that fall before that, my best friend of 11 years killed himself. And I really got to thinking about it, and I'm like, man, all the things Elliot and I would sit and talk about. What am I still doing here? Like that this was never where I wanted to be. My goal was to not be in this small town with some small-minded people. There was a lot of great people, don't get me wrong, but there's I wanted so much more. And and so I had called Telford um that spring after my house had been robbed. Or no, it was before. It was before my house got robbed. And it was like the icing on the cake that this is why I'm moving, because there's small minded people in this town, and I know some of them, and I love a lot of them also, but I don't want to be here anymore. But Elliot's talks are what made me call call Telford and be like, I'm gonna take the job because I this is not, I just I just moved back to help her and I just I got stuck there. You know, I only meant to be there to help you, and then all of a sudden, six years later, or I guess it was eight years later, I'm like, what am I doing here? Like, I'm wasting my life of what I wanted, and I'm never gonna be able to do it here. So I had taken the job, house got robbed. That also takes something from you know that sense of security that this is your house. The safety dog just ruined it for me. And uh moved, I and I told Jake, I said, I'm gonna need six months. Like, I won't be there till fall. Like I have a whole life to change. I had to sell my place, I sold all my cows, all I mean, all the things I'd worked so hard for and just to move to Idaho to go be an assistant and rent a house. And and uh Jake was awesome. I enjoyed my time working for Jake.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:53

I how long did you work there?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

You know, so before I had I've had Lyme's disease for years, and uh I had it I had it pretty un. I had it pretty big deal. It's a pretty, pretty good one. Uh from a tick. From a tick, yep. I got it when I was 21, but I didn't know until I was 26. Um, I'd I'd been, I'd been just, I just hadn't felt good for years. Like my joints hurt and I didn't feel good, and I'd finally lost some movement. My hands, like, I just couldn't grip the doorknob. So I ended up going to town and I just got really lucky. This traveling doctor was like, you know, we're gonna test your thyroid, but I really want to test you for limes. And my limes came back positive. And uh, so when I went to work for Telford, I'd had it pretty under control. And then with working for somebody else, the hours that we were working, like I just got so run down, I just kind of started to fall off. It's giving me some heart issues that I deal with. And and uh, so I six months later I told Jake, I'm like, I I'm sorry, but like I I've gotta stop and go take care of myself.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

Well, yeah, because I don't think people understand what assistant trainers' lives are.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Yeah. It's like it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:07

There's no there's no life.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

No, there is no life. I mean, around horses and what we do anyways, your your life is them. There's no, I love it when people are like, what are your hobbies? I'm like, I don't have a hobby.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

I don't know how to do anything outside of horses. But he Jake was great. He was super understanding. I quit, went out on my own. And being able to be on my own schedule and know that, like, boy, I need to go sit down for a minute. Like, and I've learned a lot over the years of how to maintain it. And I know I probably do I I actually deal with mine a lot better than some of the people that I know because it's ruined their life, it's ruined their relationships, or it's a it's not a fun thing to deal with.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:54

And then and there's nothing, I mean, what do you practically what can you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

I mean, basically for me, so like diet, yeah, like diet goes a long way. Like I think rest. Yeah, diet and like I'd say I'd love to say rest. Insomnia is a big deal. So if like if sli not sleeping is kind of a big thing for us, but diet and knowing when you're like, hey, I just like every now and then I'm like, I'm gonna go sit down for a just a hot second right here and catch my air. But diet's 90% of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

Dang. Yeah, that's because I I didn't know that you had that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:30

I've so it's like um I'm more inspired by you because like you said, I know people that have it and they have no life.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

No, I would I'll never forget the doctor when she called me back in for, you know, to talk about what came back positive. And she's like, What did you do this last weekend? And I'm like, well, it was a feeder sale. So we were there from seven to midnight, and basically I used to always giggle. I'd put my little tracker on, and because my job, I'd sort them a foot, feed the sale, like you walk 14 miles walking around there putting cattle away and sorting them. And she's like, Really? She's like, I've never met anybody that is still doing what you're doing as many years as you had it. And she goes, the fact that you've been so ignorant, tough about it, is probably the only reason you're still doing this good, and that it's never, I've never forgot that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:24

Dang.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

I'm like, you know what? You're right. I'm just not gonna allow it to get me down.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:28

Good for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:29

Such a mindset.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

Yeah. She like just her saying that though, something that just stuck with me. I'm like, you're right, I'm just ignorant right here, and I'm just not gonna stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:40

So you went out on your own. Did you lease a place or I did?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

I leased a couple places. Um they're in uh around Parma and had a uh few years of that. And then I finally bought that little place and flipped it, and then I'd been looking for property for three years. And when I seen the place that I have now up there, I I drove in and I looked at it and I was like, this is it. Like I want this place. So I ended up buying that place and kind of just been a work in progress over the years.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:12

Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Yeah. Yeah, it was one small project at a time. We built some horse pins and and built a round pin and got an arena, and now it's finally a little more functional with all the things, but yeah, yeah, it was a process.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:27

Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

You've my my takeaway is your durability.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:39

Like you've been through so much before the age of twenty and a lot of loss and a lot of theft in all the ways we talked about, and on top of having Lyme's disease, but your drive is like to see all that you've made happen and to do it on your own.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

It's boggling, it's mind-boggling.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

You are you are very unique.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:15

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

Very unique. And I I I love the part of your story of like your mom and her modeling this to you. Like, if you want a dream, go get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

Yeah. What are you waiting for?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:34

And it's gonna be a lot of hard work and a lot of no's and a lot of obstacles. Oh, and you're a woman, so you're gonna have to fight through bunkhouse weird stuff. Yeah. And you've overcome all of it, and now you're like very successful in in the pen, show pen. And you probably have some amazing customers that believe in you and are getting you really good horses, which you have to have, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

And and you're living your dream. Yeah. And you're not that old.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

I mean, I'll be 29 forever.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

Well, you keep acting like it. But I mean, really, I mean, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

I just I have actually a really good friend that that tells me it's pretty good at some pep talk sometimes because we get so caught up in just working, like, and it's never enough. Like, I want more. Like, I haven't owned a house in 10 years. Like, my goal before 40 is to have a house. Like, I'm tired of you know, but that was never an important thing. Like, you're gonna build the things that are gonna run your business first before a house, because I don't make money.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

So that was kind of the, you know, I could either have a house in Idaho or I was gonna have a place in Arizona. Well, of course I'm gonna own the place in Arizona because that's my business. But we get so caught up in the moments of working and wanting more and it never being enough that like there's a few moments that he's called and he's like, just stop what you're doing and just look around. Like you built that. Like, you know, here not that long ago, he's like, go walk outside. As I hung a bunch of lights outside, little solar lights on the arena that just make my night, it just makes my day when I see them. And uh go walk outside and just stand there for five minutes and look what you built. Like those are those moments that some people forget and we need to be reminded of. And I'm terrible about doing it because I'm just thinking about how to rob Peter to pay Paul this month, and I gotta make this go around, and you're gonna try to get through this many in a day. And no, go walk outside, go look at it. Like for five minutes right there, I can sit there and be like, You're right. Like, I I did this, I did this alone. I did this by myself, and it's something to be proud of.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:53

Gratitude.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:55

I think that's a good thing for all of us to hear. Cause I I as because I'm at my age, I'm 53 now, I am slowing down in that regard of like I'm still aiming high and charging hard in the things I want to accomplish and go chase down my dreams still in business and in family and our little cowherd and with wild courage stuff. And I I have learned to take it all in. And there's a sweetness in it in your friend's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

Like because we're none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:36

And it's like there is a sweetness in the things that are behind us that are and are in front of us right now, today, that's I think it's valuable to do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:49

To be grateful and to sit in it and be proud of yourself and like use it for fuel for to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:56

Because what you're doing is such a grind.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

It is.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:59

I mean, it's such a thankless. Like everyone sees the cool videos with the cool music, yeah, going down the fence, yeah, wearing the cool yeah, the 20-second clip that took 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:11

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

And then like I was telling you, I was just in Texas at my buddy's training place, and I'm like, it's such a grind. I mean, it's every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Right. I mean, what what it's being I mean, or you know, when we take days off, we're still, you know, riding the threes or, you know, trying to get ready for that fraturity season, or you, you know, at home you got water to change and it's hay season, and there's no such thing as a life. And then it takes a really special person to be able to put up with our life style in this industry.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:46

Um, do you go to any shows in Scottsdale?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:50

Um too far away for you or what?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

No, I should. We we actually were gonna go to some this year. Um, however, with the EHV outbreak, we just kind of locked down and sure, just kind of decided that you know, we would just kind of wait till we got home. That was the goal. We had gotten down here and and uh wanted to go to some, but uh it just wasn't worth it. And I want all my clients to feel safe. I'm not gonna jeopardize my own. I don't want to feel like sure you're jeopardized. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:18

Um, what's next?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Just keep living my dream. I mean, I have so many things I want.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:24

And just 10 years from now, when we sit back down and do this again, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:30

Um, what will you have hoped to be able to report 10 years from now?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:35

Man, I really think my goal in 10 years would be I I would really like to not have to ride as many as is kind of my goal to actually slow down and enjoy it a little bit more and be able to ride better ones and less of them. I mean, I I I love this part of my job, but I mean, of course, the end goal is to enjoy it a little more and slow down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:03

Who who inspires you in NRCHA right now? Like when you watch somebody, it can be a man or a woman. I don't, I don't care. Who are you like, man, I like what they how they're doing it. And just not just in the show pen, but like the business and like who they are becoming in the journey. And it can be people that you don't even, you know, that you know from a distance, or like who inspires you or do you look up to?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:30

You know, when you say that, there's not even a person that comes to mind, honestly. Like, I think a lot of them are inspirational in so many of their own little ways that I just take a little bit from all of them. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's not would be just one person, or I can't even think of a somebody that I see that way. They're just there's so many, so many of them that are inspirational. Uh like I think a Chris Dawson offhand just because he's you know what, like they're so successful, but he is so down to earth.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:04

And he does not take himself seriously.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:07

No, and I love that because he just like every like Chris was one of the first people that maybe he didn't really know me, but he always made a point to say hi. And now, you know, like you still see him at the shows that I go to once a year, you know, to maybe go to the fraternity or you know, I don't get to go to the big ones as much with you know, you gotta have a lot of big clients be able to go to those. So, but he might not see me for two years. Dylan, how's it going? Like, I remember that. I remember that you remember me. Yeah, that means something to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:36

Yeah, I it was fun talking to him because he has it all and all and all to lose.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:43

And just his approach of like, he told me that when he won the faturity the first time, he remembers after all the hoopla going to his motel room alone and just like, this is it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:59

That was and now it's cool. I haven't talked to him since he won last year, but he's like, I just don't take it myself that seriously. Like, and I hold it loosely, and it's like, and he really carries himself that way. Like and with his wife doing good, he's like, We all have this, we have the same checking account. It's great that she's winning because it's that much I don't have like he I don't know. I I agree. I like how he approaches it, and like he's making time to like stop and do other things and go on vacation with his family, and like because I mean he's been doing it for a long time and grinding it out, and so it is good, I think, to look at people that you inspire you to be like, they've figured something out. And I'm not there yet, but it's a good way to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

The hardest part about the industry that's kind of been, you know, training without emotions. Like you have to set all your emotions aside to train. Like just because you're having a bad day and want to lose your temper, like I like I sit there and tell myself on a bad day, I'm like, do you really want to have to apologize to this horse for two weeks? Because this is what's gonna happen. It's so good. And so it makes me kind of suck it up and be like, nope. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna swallow it. I can't train with emotions. And that's like kind of watching Chris, you know, like Chris, like doesn't take it personal. Exactly. You can't. You cannot take it personal.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Yeah, and it's hard work and you can't take it personal. I think that's probably the best advice you could give anybody wanting to come up in this in the horse training world, any discipline, right? Is like I've thought that a lot is I've got healthier emotionally. Like, I don't ride my horses as much as I used to or should, but I get further with them because I like how you said, like, I don't have to, I don't have to say I'm sorry to them because I'm not crucifying them because I have a bad day.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:56

Yeah. It has nothing to do with them. Teach them.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:59

And I think that's a good part of going on this journey of like having conversations like this and getting more healing in whatever way, right? And not stuffing it down, is then you get to show up as a more whole person to your business and your customers. And most importantly, like the horses don't have to pay the price. That's good. Um as we kind of land the plane here, I was hesitant to ask you this. So I've been I'm on this quest of this question that came up in my head a couple of months ago, and I've done, you know, a few podcasts in the last few days, and there's no wrong answer, and I'm I'm popping it on everyone, and it's kind of a dirty one to do to to you especially, and I'm sensitive to it, so I've been really contemplating, but I think it'd be powerful to hear from you in a sentence or a paragraph what is a good man? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Oh man, I think that's I mean, of course, that's a hard question. I think I think it is a a good man is one that whether you're talking about the person that you are, but knowing the things that you need to be comfortable in your own skin or your business or what you need help with, like that goes a long way. Like them stepping back, putting their pride away and their ego, and saying, Hey, like, what can I do to make you feel better? Like, if we're gonna be partners, like we're supposed to be in this together.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:40

I think that makes that's beautiful. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. Sorry to No, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:46

That was kind of a hard one.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

I kind of know you it's funny, is you answered it faster than the three men that I've asked this question to. Like, I'm gonna have to go edit out how long the silence was when I proposed that question.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:00

Like minutes really of these guys just like it's a hard question, but I'm fascinated by it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:09

Cause I want to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:11

And it and it's different for everyone. And I'm really grateful and thank you for sharing your perspective. Because that's from from somebody who's been through what you've been through, that's kind of why I pressed into asking you of like, this is gonna be a really genuine answer from your perspective, and that's powerful. And and and I needed to hear it, and men need to hear it. And I'm gonna ask every woman that I have on that same question too, because it's a good one. I think at the end of end of it, um these guys evolve when we were done. Like, I'm gonna be thinking about that now. And it's like, good, if we don't know what we're aiming at, yeah, we don't know the target. Like, what is a good man? So anyway, thank you for answering.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:53

I think it's I guess a little bit on that. Why I kind of knew that or how I wanted to answer that was something I've kind of thought about. Like, I know through my life, like the idea of me on the outside world is great, right? Like I'm cute, I train, great. The reality of being with me in that sense is not that easy. Like it's a lot of complex. Yeah, it's a lot more complex than just nuance kind of having a cute trophy on your arm.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:22

No, you're a hard charger.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:24

I'm glad you're my friend. Me too. Um, how can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:29

Uh, I'm on uh Facebook. I have uh Dylan's Performance Horses uh page on there, and that's my form of technology is very limited, so I've just kind of been hit with that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:41

Well, you're doing a great job at it. Anything else you want to say or share with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

No, I'm happy to be here today, and I I'm can't wait to have somebody listen to this.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

Well, uh sincerely, like I I I can kind of tell the the cost of this, and that's what um means a lot to me and and in our mission. And so I'm very extremely grateful for you for being vulnerable and taking a risk in this. And I know it's gonna help a lot of people, which is why I know you did it, and you're super brave, and and you're amazing. And again, thanks for being my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:17

Uh thank you. Thanks, guys.