034 | Aimee of Pawfect Behavior on everything mindset and dogs and leaving the UK to be a Dubai dog trainer

How does a UK national end up a dog (and other animals) trainer in Dubai? Just listening to Aimee's backstory will have you in awe of the way she has stayed true to herself making big life decisions.

We talk about how she tries to make clients feel like they can share everything with her as a trainer so that they don't have to hide their feelings and frustration.

We discuss how breed stereotypes and other assumptions may prevent us from recognizing our dogs are in pain.  Are poodles simply fussy eaters or is there an underlying problem with their teeth causing them pain when they eat?

What about the disappointment we feel when our dog's behavior seems to relapse? What can we do? Should we try something new or go back to basics?

Links:
Aimee's business in Dubai:
https://pawfectgroup.com/
Aimee on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/pawfectbehaviourme/

Episode Website:
https://kajsavanoverbeek.com/034-aimee-of-pawfect-behaviour-on-everything-mindset-and-dogs-and-leaving-the-uk-to-be-a-dubai-dog-trainer/

If you're wondering how to feel less stressed about your career, your dog, your family or all of the above, there are things you can do!

There is still time to join First Things First small group coaching on the (myth of) work-life-dog-balance. We start April 15th 2025. Find out more here:

https://kajsavanoverbeek.com/worklifebalancegroupcoaching/

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Aimee: Um, I'm guilty of it too, of going, oh yeah, it's come back, we must try something new, rather, like, rather than going, no, the basics work. We just have to keep doing them.

Kajsa: Welcome to the Mindset Podcast for guardians of dogs who are just a little rough around the edges. I'm your host, Kajsa van Overbeek, a life coach dedicated to making life with your challenging dog feel less challenging, both by sharing stories of other people's similar experiences and by showing you how you can harness the power of your brain to make it work for you instead of against you.

Welcome everyone to another interview episode of rough around the edges and I'm talking to someone In a country that I've talked [00:01:00] to people in before, I don't even know if that sentence makes sense, but I'm talking to someone in the United Arab Emirates, in Dubai to be precise, and it's Amy of Pawfect Behaviour.

Just like before I hand over the mic and ask her to introduce herself and tell us all about her, I always love to let you all know how these sort of contexts get established and how we get to know each other. And in this case, if you are a sort of avid listener of the podcast, you will have heard Um, Sarah, Refi talk about her dog and like her struggles and also, I should mention like her ambition to maybe even become a dog trainer, which she has now become.

And because of that episode with Sarah, Amy contacted me and. She was like, I love what was going on in this episode, especially the part, and I hope I'm not telling any lies here, but Amy can correct me later if that is the [00:02:00] case, about where we were talking about how to select a dog trainer. And Sarah was mentioning at that time that when she talked to Amy, what Amy had done was not talk.

I'm going to use, she's going to say talk trash about the other trainers or about other methods. She had simply mentioned the way she did things, how she was going about things, that it was different, and then she had left the option to Sarah. And Sarah had jumped on it, and that's how the two of them got to know each other.

But the reason that Amy and I got into contact was because of this whole, how do you go about letting people know that you have a different viewpoint? How, how do you go about sharing your message without also starting some kind of punishment based behavior towards other people and that aspect of it.

And we've stayed in touch ever since. And finally, finally, finally, now [00:03:00] Amy is on the podcast to tell us her story. Um, so that was sort of the short little all over the place intro. I'm just going to hand over the mic to Amy and just tell her to introduce herself. How did she get into all of this and whatever this is, she can let us know because I'm pretty sure it's more than dog training and dog boarding.

How did she end up in the Emirates? All of that. Amy, welcome, welcome over to you. 

Aimee: Thank you so much, Kajsa. It's a pleasure to meet on this podcast. I've been dying, dying to come on, truthfully, since, since we first, since we first spoke. Gosh, yes. So, my name is Amy. Um, I own and run Pawfect Behaviour. So, Pawfect Behaviour's been around for six years now here in the Emirates, but I've been training dogs professionally for 14 years.

A long time. Too long, sometimes. 

Kajsa: Okay, I also, I already want to know what, what [00:04:00] triggered sort of that thought of too long sometimes, because I feel there's a story behind there, but first, carry on. 

Aimee: Yep, of course. So training dogs and particularly working with dogs with behavior issues is all I've ever wanted to do.

Since I was 13, there was, which I'm not going to tell you how long ago that was. 

Kajsa: Fair enough. 

Aimee: Um, there was a TV program on the, in the UK. that used to follow pet behaviorists, pet behavior counselors, and I guess, yeah, it would have been around 12, 13, and I was like, that's what I want to do. I want to do that for a living.

So my parents were like, okay, rolling their eyes. Here we go. 

Kajsa: For sure. This'll, this'll blow over at one point. Yeah, 

Aimee: it's just a phase. Yeah. No, I've always loved animals and everyone in my family knew that I would end up with working with them somehow. We just weren't sure how. So yeah, I saw this. This, [00:05:00] that was what I wanted to do.

Work with people and their pets with their behavioral issues. So in the UK you can finish school at 16 and then you have the option to go on to further education. So you can go on and you can do more kind of like A levels, like more kind of, um, like, More sort of schools, uh, academic kind of studies. Or you can go and do sort of these The less alternative now, but sort of alternative qualifications they were at the time, um, which were more practical based.

So I went and studied animal care at college for two years. Again, this was all, it was all very strategic. It gave me, gave me the practical stuff. It gave me a ton of practical work, um, with various different species. And it, at the time as well, pretty much guaranteed me a place at university. I knew I needed a degree or I knew I wanted a degree to go on and do this behavior work that I desperately wanted to do.[00:06:00] 

So it pretty much guaranteed me a place at university at the time because they had to take a certain number of these alternative qualifications as they were. Um. 

Kajsa: Because the other way people would get into the animal behavior studies would then be through A levels directly, or? 

Aimee: Yes. Okay. Yeah. I wanted something that would help me stand out.

I knew that I was already bored of sitting in a classroom. I couldn't face sitting in a classroom for another two years. So whilst there was a lot of academic stuff, it was, because it was all centered around animals, I loved it. It was just the best two years ever. 

Kajsa: What should I consider, like, what types of things do you learn when you study animal care for two years?

So 

Aimee: we did, there was lots of biology, there was some chemistry. Ecology, as well as the more practical side. So we did like a six month unit of [00:07:00] vet nursing. We did a six month unit, sorry, so care of, um, exotics. So the exotic species, I'm laughing because my sister always calls it care of medical creatures.

Kajsa: Very Harry Potter. 

Aimee: So that's sort of like your reptiles. Um, and yeah, just your less common sort of, for those that wants to go down the zoo management kind of route. And then we had to do a ton of work experience. We had to do regular duties in the animal care unit. So I think it was around eight hours a week of taking care of the animals that we had on site.

Wow. It was, it was dream come true. It was amazing. 

Kajsa: Okay. And so then you applied to the behavior education degree. Yep. 

Aimee: So yeah, so found what was at the time the best animal behavior course. in the country at the fantastic Anglia Ruskin and did animal behavior and animal [00:08:00] welfare for three years. Graduated and then I was stuck.

I wasn't, I had some health issues but I was stuck. I was like how, now what 

Kajsa: do I do? How do I turn this into, into Dinner on the table. 

Aimee: Exactly. The one pet behavior counselor that we had to come in and do a day of like case studies with us basically spent the day telling us that it was a terrible career and don't do it.

So then I was stuck. And then I decided to do a second degree. Um, 

Kajsa: like any normal thinking person does like, I don't know where to go. Let's study some more. 

Aimee: Yeah. Let's do some more studying. I clearly enjoy it. So then I did applied animal behavior. That was more focused on the requirements to become a pet behavior counselor with.

The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors in the UK. So it was more focused on that. And from there [00:09:00] I met two women that were just crucial in my career. So one was a lady in Ireland who ran a doggie daycare. And another was a lady over here in Dubai who was looking to set up a doggie daycare. So 

Kajsa: I can see the connection starting to form.

Yep, 

Aimee: so we both, both myself and the lady from Dubai went to Ireland to kind of, I did some work experience there and helped out with their training classes, got some fantastic practical experience. And then because I had that knowledge and the place over here in Dubai was to be based on the place over in Ireland, she invited me out 

Kajsa: for eight weeks.

How long ago were those eight weeks? 

Aimee: Oh, 13 years ago. All right. You know. A long eight 

Kajsa: weeks. How these things go. Just before you take us through the Emirati part, why did this behaviorist [00:10:00] that was basically trying to discourage you from following a career path in animal behavior, why did she think it was, or was it a she, by the way?

Yeah, well, yes, it was. Yeah. Why did she think it was a terrible choice? So what was, what was her. What were her arguments? Do you, do you recall? 

Aimee: I don't really recall. I just remember she was very grumpy. She, she wasn't very personable at all. Apologies if that particular person happens to be listening to this podcast.

Yeah, I think she just And looking back, like, where I am now, I can see how she got to that point. It, kind of, not much money, a lot of work, very, kind of, mentally, sort of, 

Kajsa: draining. Is that why you also earlier said, sometimes I think it's too long that I've been in this job? Are you seeing what maybe she was Yeah, 

Aimee: I can see how she got to, [00:11:00] how she could get to that 

Kajsa: point.

I'm going to want to ask you more about that later, just to see, like, how do you deal with that? And, and how do you overcome that? Or maybe how you don't overcome that? That could be something that's going on. Okay. But so you're, you're being asked to help set up this doggy daycare in Dubai, eight weeks.

Yeah. Apparently something happened that made it more than. Or it may have turned into more than eight weeks. Talk us through that. 

Aimee: I just fell in love with the city and the country and the weather. 

Kajsa: I can see maybe someone coming from the UK might appreciate a different kind of 

Aimee: weather. And it gave me a direct route into a consistent salary job, doing the job that I wanted to do.

Whereas back in, back in the UK, pretty much every trainer or behaviorist is like a sole trader. They work [00:12:00] alone, and you, you start and you just have to work very, very hard to build up your, your clientele. And it can be quite lonely, so 

Kajsa: So you basically started working for the, the doggy daycare that you had helped?

Yes. Set up. Yeah. But you don't anymore. No. So, what happened there? 

Aimee: Um, at that, Dolby Daycare has since closed down, actually. But there was, there was some back and forth between Dubai in the, in the early years. My mom had some health issues. I went home for a few months and did some kind of dog training behavior stuff there.

Then I came back for the, for the same job, more of a management position. And it just, it wasn't the same place that I'd left the year before. So it just didn't work out that time. 

Kajsa: The way you describe your life up until now, and I don't know if that is. How you see it as well, but it's almost like you, you know very well what you like, what you don't like, and [00:13:00] you really, how it comes across, right?

And you follow your heart, like you said, I knew I wanted to work with animals. I followed this route. This is what I had my heart set on. Then I went to Dubai, like I came back, it didn't seem like it was a good fit anymore. So I decided to go different. Was it that easy as I am interpreting it that it was, what was going through your mind?

Are you this type of person who just knows and goes for it? How does that, how does that work? Um, 

Aimee: it's taken some time to get to the point where I do just kind of really decisively like, nope, okay, this is, this is what's going to happen. In looking back, yes, it was that simple, but at the time it wasn't. If that makes sense.

So at the time, it was quite, it was quite emotional. There was a lot going on, but looking back at it, yes, it seems that simple. 

Kajsa: When you say it was that, that emotional, what? Yeah. Was it the emotions getting in [00:14:00] the way of making the decision, or was it making the decision and then dealing with the emotions?

Both. Just 

Aimee: politicians answer. 

Kajsa: Very much so. Just choose, please, one or the other. No, of course, there's always both, right? That's what I say. Everything is always and. Can you recall the thought process? What was the back and forth? For example, going to Dubai, or maybe the more difficult decision was probably, I imagine, staying in Dubai.

Because I can imagine going to Dubai. It's like, oh, it's just for eight weeks. That's fine. And then deciding that you're going to stay there. What was the back and forth that was going on in your mind? Staying 

Aimee: in Dubai, it was the, the selfishness, I guess. It felt very selfish to stay there and do something for myself and my career instead of sort of being at home with my family.

And my mom and this kind of thing. 

Kajsa: I love that because selfishness is one of the [00:15:00] things that always shows up for my clients as well. Like if I choose some time off for myself and I'm now not training my dog, or I'm now not reading up on the latest and greatest in the dog training or behavior modification world, then I'm being selfish.

I should always be doing something for something else, for some, someone else, or, you know, I always should be doing something else. Yeah. Is it easier for you now to be. Selfish, or, and to see selfish as maybe selfless, has that come with time or is that still a thing that just, you know, like ugly rears its head and you deal with it when it comes up?

It's a constant 

Aimee: battle. So it's, yeah, it will be something that I work on consistently, but it does 

Kajsa: get easier. What about your family's reactions? Were they saying, you're being selfish, you're leaving us behind, or were they actually rather very accepting? They 

Aimee: were really happy for me. They were obviously worried because, you know, Middle East [00:16:00] and the fear of the unknown.

Um, but no, generally they were, they were super proud and really happy for me. 

Kajsa: Which is cool in a way, because That's the other thing, right? We often go, if I do this, I'm going to be selfish. What will the other people think? And actually you did the, between air quotes, selfish thing, and they were actually very proud of, of what you were doing.

Okay. So I've interrupted you again, but that's what I do. The daycare is no longer a good fit. Yeah. And so then, then what? Then UK 

Aimee: again, and again, did some training work, behavior work over there. I got involved in another brand new dog daycare in the UK that failed after a month, um, due to the, due to the investors.

And then One of the people that I'd worked at with the previous daycare set up her own daycare and asked me to come out because she was expanding. So that was 

Kajsa: [00:17:00] 2013. And then how did that lead into POFIC behavior? Or was, were there steps in between? 

Aimee: It had been four years and it just, It wasn't working.

When friends work together at some point, there's always the risk that it's going to go wrong. We parted ways, and I was going to go home, but I didn't really want to. At that point, I did get another job offer for another company, but I was no longer happy being dependent on somebody else. I wanted more control.

over what was going to happen and how I worked and where I worked and when I worked and all these, all these kinds of things. And I met this fantastic client who was actually a life coach or training to be a life coach as well. So we swapped some. Swap some dog care for some life coaching. And then halfway through the session she stops and she's like, I'm taking off my life coach hat and she's like, you just have to go up and you just have to go on [00:18:00] and set up your own business.

You have to. So I did. 

Kajsa: I love that. We call that jump in life coaching. We call that jumping into the pool, right? Because we usually try, we stay out of it. We don't tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. We just sort of reflect your thoughts back to you so that you can have a clearer image of what's going on.

But I, I agree. Sometimes it is so glaringly obvious, you know, when you sit there listening to a person, like this is what their heart is telling them to do. It's just. Yeah. It jumps out at you. So I love that she did that. But of course, I mean, starting your own company and all about it, that is super scary.

Aimee: Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. 

Kajsa: What allowed you to deal with the terror? Just 

Aimee: the support from everybody. I had a great support network and the love for the job [00:19:00] and the desire to, to do something more. 

Kajsa: What's the something more? What is the, the sauce that you are adding? Your special sauce, so to say.

Aimee: Just to, so once I'd got it into my head, or it always maybe been in the back of my head, right from the very start, right from that very first daycare, of kind of wanting to, to not just have a business for myself, but to, to grow a business, to, to make a, um, expanded to different areas to try and help. As many dogs and their humans as 

Kajsa: possible.

Do you now help only dogs or do you help other animals as well? 

Aimee: I work with cats as well. And very occasionally parrots, very occasionally.

Cool. So cool. Um, [00:20:00] 

Kajsa: so, okay. When you did the educational part, you know, there were the magical, you know, care of magical creatures part. Yep. Then how did that distill into mainly dogs and then cats and parrots? But the way I hear it, it's sort of the emphasis is on dogs. Is that just because dogs are the more available, more to be trained pet out there, or was that also a specific 

Aimee: choice?

Yeah, I think dogs are the more, the more common sort of pet, basically. I'd always loved dogs. We didn't always have a dog. Like initially I had far more experience, but when I got to university, I had the most experience with dogs. Parrots, cats and horses. Do you also 

Kajsa: deal with horses right now? Because I know we've had Jumi on and I know, um, you all know each other.

Like, do we leave the horses to Jumi or do you also train guardians of horses? 

Aimee: No, I, I very much leave the horses to, to Jumi. Um, things of [00:21:00] Changed so much in the horse world and I've been out of it for such a long time. Um, yeah. And Julie is just such an amazing equine behaviorist that I could never.

Kajsa: And then when you speak of, you know, so much has changed, a lot is changing in the way we look at dogs, in the way we see dogs, not just dogs, horses, obviously, as well, or animals, I imagine that there's been a lot of changes from the time that you studied to now, and also from the time that you were working in doggy daycares to when you set up your company to now, what are the biggest changes?

The way you saw dogs and was your philosophy on how we should interact with our animals one of the reasons that you decided also to go work for yourself? Did you integrate that? That's a 

Aimee: really [00:22:00] great question and actually I've been really, I always say I've been really lucky that my philosophy has been pretty much the same since I was 13.

With, certainly with dogs and cats. So I was very lucky to, and when I took on my pug, again, at the perfect age, at 13, mom was like, if you're going to have this dog, you're gonna take him to training classes. That's, that's not, that's not optional. So we did, and we found She wasn't force free, but there was a heavy element of positive reinforcement.

So there was lots of treats, cheese, toys, um, that we used in class. And my first experience of training a dog was with food and toy rewards. How the, the scale of kind of force free or positive reinforcement that I'm on has definitely kind of Changed, but the foundations haven't. 

Kajsa: And when you say the scale has changed, what [00:23:00] does that mean?

Aimee: So, I mean, again, in those days, even the positive reinforcement kind of TV shows, we're talking about sort of dominance in dogs and these kinds of things, whereas now we know that that's just not a thing, particularly when it comes, and it's certainly not something that we need to be concerned about when it comes to training our dogs.

Yeah, like we just, I think the whole sort of force free positive reinforcement community has really just kind of moved on over the past few years to become a lot more progressive and sort of even moving away from sort of things like extinction. So extinction was very common when I very first started out in my career and now we're trying to move away from using extinction in training, these kind of things.

Kajsa: Yeah, go more into this also errorless learning. Um, the podcast is going to come out before this one. I talked to Agnieszka and, um, she's actually also, also training parrots just as a, uh, as a fun sort of intermezzo, but we talked about errorless [00:24:00] learning a lot. And, and the whole question of, um, is frustration.

necessary in training? Do, do we even need it? Is that something that we can get away from? Who put that into our minds? Is it, is that really true? Questioning a lot of the beliefs that, you know, were held universally. Like when you talk about extinction, yeah, the first thing that comes to mind is like, yeah, you will have an extinction burst, but it's just very important that you, you know, like, Steer the course, hold the line and, and don't give in because after that, it will all be fine.

And now then the question becomes like, okay, well, actually, do we even need to train it that way? Can we train it, um, in a different way? So if, if you think back, what are the things that have changed for you? What are the things where you have sort of re evaluated? The way you do things or the way you train things.

Aimee: So even just things like, um, [00:25:00] like what we would term like a gentle correction, like using like an uh uh, like we don't use that anymore. That was peak of, like right at the start of my career, that was something that we did. You'd ask the dog to sit, they didn't sit or they'd jump up at you and we'd be like uh uh.

I mean, looking back, it probably did nothing, unless the dog, like, unless the dog was very kind of fearful of something, super sensitive, but it was just what you did 

Kajsa: back then. When you changed that, was that an aha moment? Can you recall that process from going to using uh uh, almost, to no longer Doing that, was that you heard something and then it was an instant change?

Was it something gradual? Can you, can you remember how that transition went? I actually 

Aimee: can't. I think it just gradually kind of faded out because it just, in my head, I was like, well, it's pointless, extra [00:26:00] energy I'm using. Um, or it, it might've been It might have been that I used it on a sensitive dog and they, and they sort of, they got worried and then I felt terrible for, for causing that in the dog.

I actually can't remember, truthfully. It might have been lots of things. 

Kajsa: Which is, I guess, often the way, right? You're like, yeah, I used to do it this way. I don't even know what, what that was. Which, my brain is telling me points more towards a gradual process, but Even that is an assumption. When you talk about this type of things, right, like, for me too, a lot of these things are gradual, I'm starting to rethink them, maybe it's because of something I heard, you know, my first reaction usually when I hear something new or a new way of looking at things is, is resistance, because it means that I have to give up what I believed.

So then I have to open myself up and go like, why am I so [00:27:00] resistant to this? Like, do, is there something I need to change? And I'm slowly, you know, I get to the change. When you're working with clients, I imagine that this, I mean, this same process. is there, right? So they may have all kinds of ideas or tried all kinds of things with their dog or cat or parrot, uh, and then you come in and you maybe tell them that they have to do something completely different.

And I, again, have to is, is not, um, not a word I like to use, but that they could do something different. How do you approach that? We know a little bit because Sarah told us about how you approached it when, when she was looking for another trainer, which at that time was basically telling her, okay, I do things differently.

But that's on a larger, I almost want to say on a larger [00:28:00] scale where you're just trying to say, hey, There's a different way of training your animal, but on a micro scale, there's all kinds of these instances as well, where the client probably has to overcome some kind of resistance to something or is stuck in a certain way of thinking.

So what's your approach there? Every client 

Aimee: is different, and I try and make sure that I take a unique approach to every client. There are some clients that just need to be told. Or do better with being told, this is what we're going to do, because I said so, because I'm here as the professional and you're paying me for this, so this is what we're going to do.

Other clients do better with like a far more sort of gentle approach, like we would take with our dogs, like, okay, let's make one sort of minor change. Okay, great. That's worked. Let's introduce another change. Okay, fantastic. That's worked. Let's introduce. Something else as well. I'm putting it all together like a little jigsaw [00:29:00] puzzle.

It's um, yeah, it's not foolproof. That's what we try and do. We try and get to know the client and try and work out like the human psychology side of things. What makes this client tick? What motivates this client? What's 

Kajsa: the, um, sort of the most resistance you've experienced from a client? I know I'm putting you on the spot here.

Yeah.

Aimee: That's just Sometimes they're just, they're very dependent on their, on their tools. Like, their more aversive tools. Um, particularly when those tools align with the dogs that, and the dog training they've had in the past, or what they kind of experienced growing up. Or my dog, my dad did this to my dog growing up and he turned out just fine.

Those kind of things, I think. Or again, bringing it back to the Dubai sort of lifestyle of, so I'm completely going off on a tangent [00:30:00] here, but in Dubai you can get anything you want with within about 45 minutes. So, so there's, it's a, it's a very, it can be a very fast city. And sometimes those expectations with certain, with certain clients do.

pass on to the dog training as well. The quick fix. The quick, the quick fix. Um, but I want somebody else to, to fix it quickly. All 

Kajsa: right. And not just the quick fix, but I'm paying you to quick fix it for me. Yes. And this is, that's sort of another question that I had for you. How are dogs seen in Dubai? Is, is a dog, I know I asked you this before we started recording that you said like legally their property, which unfortunately still the case in the Netherlands as well, but are they seen as a dog should just be obedient, they should walk to heel, or are they more seen as they're this creature who needs to be able to [00:31:00] express themselves?

What is culturally sort of the, the predominant way dogs are, are currently being seen. I 

Aimee: think it's so, Dubai is so unique. There's so many different cultures. It's one of the things I love about it. So it really depends on what kind of culture and background you're going into as to how the dogs are going to be seen.

So I would say it's probably sort of 50 50 with dogs should walk to heel all the time and should be seen and not heard. And then kind of dogs need to be able to express themselves. Obviously being, sort of being a, being a Muslim country there, there is an expectation that that dogs sort of shouldn't be barking and and lunging at people and shouldn't be reactive because there are many people who are terrified of dogs.

And so we want to wanna make sure that we are not upsetting those kind of like the non dog owning part of the country as well. And then. There is kind [00:32:00] of, certainly the Emiratis that I work with are very kind of spiritual, they're very true to their faith, so any kind of living animal is to be revered and well taken care of.

That 

Kajsa: sounds pretty amazing. That sounds probably very much in line with how you see animals as well. What are, because I want to bring this back to how we are also animals and how you treat your clients and your, your, your humans. And I always say convincing people probably doesn't work, but you know, how do you sort of coax?

People to, I almost want to say to, to do right by their, by their dogs. What are some of the pet peeves that you have when it comes, when it comes to that? What are the areas where you kind of go, gosh, I just, I wish I could just flip a switch and tell someone, okay, this is it. Like, this is [00:33:00] what I believe.

Could you please believe this too and make my life. It's when you 

Aimee: end up having the same conversation with the same person week in, week out, and you've, you've given them like the simplest of exercises, like dog barks at doorbell, scatter feed when the doorbell rings, and you're like, okay, let's set yourself up to succeed.

Put your treats by the front door. I even kind of, I'm like, oh, there's these really cute treats, like, storage jars you can get from this store and they'll go perfectly with your decor, so it won't look like you've got dog treats all around the house. And then I come and they're like, still barking at the doorbell.

I'm like, okay, so what happened to our, what happened to our plan? Well, yeah, no, you did say last week that that's what I was supposed to do. And I'm like Okay, so what, what stopped us? And they just, 

Kajsa: they don't have an answer. [00:34:00] That does people to me. That's my job. That's the mindset coaching. Mindset coaching part.

So what do you do then? Because I imagine that that is frustrating to you. So then what? 

Aimee: So we will sometimes do as many kind of practical setups as we can to show that it can work. Sometimes I will ask the client what, genuinely, what stopped you, what, what part of what I said was there something that didn't make sense.

But if it's consistent, and I've sent them written instructions as well of what to do and they still haven't done it, then we have to sit down and have a serious talk about. how involved they are with with the training and whether it's gonna work out whether we want to continue together, whether we're a good fit.

Kajsa: I like that in a sense because in in in a way you obviously you can't convince them or make them do anything the only thing is then that okay if this doesn't happen then the [00:35:00] consequences the barking is going to continue and I can't help you. So maybe, maybe look for, look for someone else. Is that, I almost want to say, is that easy for you to do?

Or, or, um, is that again, is that a skill that you are, have developed or are developing? It's something I'm, 

Aimee: it's something I'm still working on. It's not an easy thing for me to do as a, as a people pleaser. Yeah. It's something I should do more of, I think. It's an ongoing, an ongoing thing. 

Kajsa: Why do you think it is so hard?

What's the payoff for you, right, as the trainer, if the clients do do what you say? So 

Aimee: once, if my clients Following the instructions and when it just, it all works out, the payoff is referrals. So again, Dubai is very unique [00:36:00] in that it, it works almost exclusively on referrals. 

Kajsa: Yeah, right, so there's a very concrete, like, very measurable payoff in that sense.

I'm just always thinking, like, usually when we try to avoid losing the thing that we want, We end up losing the thing that we want. So I'm, I'm just thinking what that would be in this case. So you want the referral so that you can keep your business growing and probably by staying with that one client and not cutting them them loose and trying to convince them to really do that so you can get the referrals, you're actually wasting time that you could use working with other clients who do do what you say, who can get 

Aimee: you Yeah.

Referrals. Yeah. Trying, trying to force it sometimes. Hissen. Is it 

Kajsa: going to work? So interesting. And what about the, the other professionals that are, um, can't even think of the word, I'm just going to [00:37:00] say that, um, that you also need to work with the dogs. So veterinarians, dog walkers, whatnot, do they all subscribe to, for example, to force free training or is it positive reinforcement, the go to thing, like what's their.

level of understanding of animal behavior and behavior modification and the latest and greatest. 

Aimee: There are very few kind of pets and other pet care professionals that are fully on board with force free training. I make sure that all my referrals are, whether it's to, to a daycare, whether it's to a dog walker, whether it's to a vet, that they do have an understanding of force free kind of techniques and how they work, but 

Kajsa: Do they, for example, um, I know in the U.

S. there are, I forget what they're called, but there are veterinarians who really focus on [00:38:00] also, uh, the cooperative care and, and for, as force free as possible. of veterinary care and who will accommodate your dog, you know, coming in through the side door or they may go out to the parking lot to help your dog there if they're very fearful of coming into the practice.

There aren't that many where I live in the Netherlands, do, at least that I am aware of, let me put it that way. Is that a thing in Dubai? Like what, what are vets? I don't know where they're trained even, and how they are trained, but do they have an understanding of that? Do they accommodate that? 

Aimee: Very few.

So again, Dubai vets are from all over. So we have American vets, European vets, British vets, then we have Middle Eastern trained vets. We have vets from, vets from India, there's a, yeah, there's a [00:39:00] huge, huge range in sort of, again, cultures, like where people have trained, how they've trained, where they've, where they've come from.

So no, like the, the, the fear free vets. There's one or maybe two in the country, 

Kajsa: but they're in different, fear Free was the word I was looking for. Sorry, you just, yeah, thank you. Fear free . Yeah, sorry. One or two in the 

Aimee: country. Yeah. There's one or one or two in the country, but they're in a different Emirate, so they're like an hour and a half drive away.

There are a couple of independent vets. Um, or individual vets within practices that follow some of the fear free techniques. But there are no fear free certified practices in the Emirate of Dubai itself. 

Kajsa: And when you say one and a half hours or over an hour drive, and you've just mentioned that normally things are within a 45 minute radius, I'm guessing that people consider that over an hour is far.

Yes. Yep. [00:40:00] Um, honestly. Tell me what you still like, what you want to add, like, what are your, I know you said like, I don't want this to turn into a rant, but if you got to rant, which now you get to, what are the things you, like, that I can wake you up in the middle of the night and say, what do you want to rant about?

Go do the rant, rant for us. 

Aimee: Um, so my, yeah, my current soap box. It's just such a misunderstanding of pain in all animals, but mainly dogs, and how that affects behavior. There's just, again, Dubai, like, we don't have good quality breeders here. We have Many breeders, but they're not, they, they wouldn't follow the same kind of things that we do in Europe, for example.

So there's sort of, there's lots of kind of backyard breeders [00:41:00] and sort of mini puppy farms and these kind of things. As well as dogs being imported from other countries to be sold through pet stores. So that the dogs that we work with. that are breeds are, they're not always the healthiest. Um, so we're seeing hip dysphagia, elbow dysplasia, spinal issues, stomach problems, all these things are having an effect on our dog's behavior.

But it's been really hard to get clients and other professionals to see that, to understand the influences of pain on behavior. So this is my current soapbox. 

Kajsa: Why do, why do you think that that it is so hard for clients to see that? 

Aimee: Some of it is they probably don't want to think that their dog is in pain and is uncomfortable and [00:42:00] that maybe they've missed it, so there's probably a certain amount of cognitive dissonance there.

Again, with social media and certain types of trainers, like, we can train anything out of a dog. Yeah, so from the client's side, like, well, why aren't you fixing my dog? Why are you now Like, in, in your initial consult, you're now saying, you know, I'm going to come back and see me for three weeks. And in that time, I have to go and spend more money on, on going to see, see a vet and doing these tests and, and trying to rule out the pain element of, of this behavior.

Kajsa: I kind of understand it. How often have you seen pain to be a factor in the end, or maybe, um, I guess bad gut health is also pain? Like, how often have you seen issues like that to be a contributing factor to behavioral issues? Almost daily. What? Okay, this is not the answer I 

Aimee: expected. Sorry, [00:43:00] sorry. So, we know, like, the Daniel Mills study, like, 85 percent of behavior cases have a pain or a medical element to it, and that is also my experience.

Wow. Whether it's just even something as simple as poodles, for example, particularly toy poodles, very known for being fussy eaters, not wanting to eat. They're also known for suffering with double teeth. So when their adult teeth come through, they tend to come up in front or behind their baby teeth. So their baby teeth are still there.

They don't tend to fall out naturally on their own. So a client recently, this dog was So difficult to get to eat. It would be 25 minutes in a quiet room with no noise and no movement just to encourage him to eat and he was underweight because of it. We noticed the, the, the baby teeth left in, [00:44:00] the vet whipped them out and now he eats his meals in about three minutes.

Wow. and he's gained weight and now he's happier because he's gained weight because he's not hungry all the time so he's able to relax and sleep and chill. 

Kajsa: I'm just wondering how often we do that because what I triggered on was that you said like they're known to be fussy eaters. So this is sort of how we sweep it under the rug, we're like, okay, that's just how they are.

They're just fussy eaters without even recognizing that maybe that's not normal and maybe we need to consider why they're fussy eaters. Do you have more? I mean, I have an example of my own Rusty, obviously, because he's, pain is definitely a factor in his behavior. Okay, I feel like going off on a tangent about Rusty here, but I don't want to do that.

Um, like what other kind of statements or, or ideas, like poodles or fussy eaters, have you come across that you realize that are [00:45:00] actually describing maybe a breed related or not breed related health issue? 

Aimee: Another big one is German Shepherds. Okay. Um, so the experience I have with German Shepherds in the UK and in Europe is not the experience that I have with German Shepherds here.

German Shepherds here are typically, obviously not all of them, highly dog and human reactive, if not aggressive. And these, the German Shepherds that I see, that I love, that are wonderful, have typically come from good breeders in the UK, South Africa, mainland Europe. And the ones that have been born here, they usually have gut issues, they, if it's not hip dysplasia, it's, um, they usually have some sort of spinal fusion, um, in the, in the lower spine, and this is what's causing it.

Like they're so reactive [00:46:00] and, but typically a German shepherd should be wary of strangers or sort of aloof towards strangers, or not fussed about strangers, but not highly reactive 

Kajsa: up on their heart and like barky growly. Yeah. I find this, no, I find this fascinating and I've realized and the things that you've said about being as the Guardian or, I mean, I like to say Guardian, feeling like you failed.

You're a dog because you missed something. I can, I can relate to that because like I said, I am going to go on the rest of the tangent now because I feel like I can't keep you all hanging if I just alluded to it anyway, is that he, he has had problems, you know, like in the beginning, he's turned out, he had an enlarged prostate, which was, um, pressing on his bladder.

It catch it. I didn't know that that was even a thing. Turns out it usually isn't, you know, it's usually like [00:47:00] in, in, in humans, it's usually an old person's or an old dog's ailment. He was one and a half or something when he had that. And, which was also the time when he started to develop his reactive behavior, which.

I was like, okay, this is just puberty, right? Because that's what dogs do in puberty, not even linking it to this could also have a medical reason. Like if, obviously, if you're constantly in distress or there's constantly something irritating, you're not going to be able to tolerate things the way you would if you were completely healthy.

Same thing turned out, he had, like you mentioned, spinal issues. Very uncommon in a cattle dog. Cattle dogs are not a breed that are, I mean, they're the breed that sort of, you know, this is what we're being told, at least kind of like poodles or fussy eaters, the stance on cattle dog is, which was what was in my mind is like cattle dogs have very few [00:48:00] health issues.

What you will get is them being an idiot, jumping from a second floor building, breaking a leg and you having to go, you know, like fix the leg, or maybe they're going ACL because. They're doing crazy stupid frisbee type things or what but otherwise they're a healthy breed so I did not even think to consider a spinal issue until it took me at one point you know like an hour to come home from a half an hour walk because his royal highness as I always lovingly call him was dragging Ass behind me.

And I was like, this is not normal behavior for him. And then I just went to like, okay, let's do all the imagery. Let's do the MRI and all of it. And then we found out that that, that he had a degenerative, um, spinal disorder. I didn't know, you know, like then we got him help. We got a medication, his behavior improved.

And now again, it's [00:49:00] like, oh my God, he's lunging All the bikes he's lunging at all the scooters is like this is I mean like he used to lunge at like every 600th bike maybe but not every second bike like we this was a behavior modification protocol that we put into place we were doing great and now all of a sudden I'm like what's going on so now at least my thought is okay this could be the pain coming back it was a degenerative disorder it could be that you know he has The back problem again, even though the only way he's showing it.

is by lunging. And it turned out that he was indeed in pain again. And so now we are back on trying to figure out like, how can we, can we manage that? But at the same time, of course, he's now practiced lunging at every second bike again. So I'm now trying, and this is what I think makes it so hard, maybe also for, for the guardians is, okay, so now I have to [00:50:00] figure out which part of this is.

Now I learned behavior, which part of this is still pain. And then the specialist, they asked me like, so how's he reacting to the pain medication? And I'm kind of going like, well, to be honest, I don't know. I can't, I can't tell you because the way he's shown that he was in pain in the past was he's just about not shown it.

And now I need to sort of distinguish between newly learned pattern and being in pain, and I love them, and I know them pretty well by now, and it squirks, but still I can't, I can't really tell, so I can also imagine that this is Really hard for people to wrap their heads around and really hard to be able to distinguish and really hard to be able to see and then, okay, bringing it all back around.

It's, you can start to question yourself, like, am I just stupid to see this? Am I like. not in tune enough with my dog to be [00:51:00] able to tell when something's, uh, wrong. Now, I now recognize that I have these thoughts and I, and I go like, okay, yeah, it's normal to think that, but that's not a helpful question to ask.

Let's look at it differently. Still, I can, I can see how people go that, that way. Okay. End of my rant. 

Aimee: No, that's okay. It was super interesting that you would say, Am I just too stupid to see it or to, to, um, Thought of it, looking at it from kind of, from that perspective, because from, from my perspective, I'm like, okay, even if the dog has this this medical issue and we get them on the right kind of pain meds or assuming we can convince the vets to prescribe these kind of things.

It's, it's one part of the puzzle piece when it comes to changing a dog's behavior, when it is a severe behavior, when it is kind of severe reactivity, when it is a dog that has a bite history. It's not [00:52:00] just one thing, and I love it when it is, but it's not just one, sometimes, it's not just one thing that changes it.

It's, it's a puzzle. Sometimes it's a jigsaw puzzle, sometimes it's one of those kids puzzles where you have to keep sliding stuff around to create, to get the, to see the full picture. 

Kajsa: And dealing with your own frustration about it. I thought, and this is, I think, where I'm, uh, where I'm at with the one liner that most people give me is I thought we were done, or not this again, or what now?

One of those sort of sentiments of, no, not again. Like, I thought we had it. I thought we had arrived. And then something comes along and messes it up completely. I love the puzzle analogy that you gave where you are sliding things around. Actually, you've just now on this podcast coached me. Thank you very much for that [00:53:00] because I will now look at the rusty puzzle as Precisely that, like maybe we need to slide another piece around and figure it out.

So, so thank you, Aimee. 

Aimee: I've got to let you tell, it's because I say that because sometimes we're not doing anything different. Like I can not, clients can be doing great for six months, a year, and then they're like, Oh, this dog did something really weird or this, the behavior, like it's come back cause he's suddenly.

Did it again, and I go in and I say the exact same thing, but, or sometimes we, like, the advice doesn't change, but how we do it, or when we do it, or where we do it, where that puzzle, where that piece sits in the puzzle, changes. We don't always add things to it. 

Kajsa: Do you have an example of that? Like, where something might 

Aimee: have changed that we That we don't see or that we don't realize.

So bring it back [00:54:00] to Rusty. So you, you, you did the reactivity and it got better and then you had the setback where he had an increase in his pain, um, and you're dealing with, with the reactivity again, but it's not. We don't do anything different with dealing with reactivity, we just have to go back with how we deal with it and the methods and the techniques that we did in the past, and just keep chipping away at it again.

Kajsa: Yeah, go back to, go back to basics. 

Aimee: Go back to basics. When we, when we see, when something, the same issue crops up again, sometimes we just have to go back to basics. I think a client said to me a few weeks ago, oh my dog's, I can't remember the exact issue, but it was, my dog's starting doing this again. So I start going over it.

And a big part of it is the enrichment sort of side of things as well. She's like, Oh yeah, we used to do Lickymats and I stopped [00:55:00] doing it. Oh yeah, we used, we used to do the cardboard box puzzles and I stopped doing it. Yeah, we used to reward him for doing this, but I stopped doing it. Yeah. So like, okay, could, is there, was there a reason behind it?

Did it get too difficult? No, no, it was all fine. Um, we just kind of stopped. 

Kajsa: Felt complacent in a way, 

Aimee: which makes sense. Yeah, it got better. So we stopped. So they went back, they did what they'd done before and hey, Presto, everything's 

Kajsa: back to normal again. So good. Even if people just listen to this part, it's going to help so many people.

It's like, go back to basics. And then, and then our job is to deal with what we think and what we feel about. You know, having to go back to basics again. I'm 

Aimee: guilty of it too, of going, oh yeah, it's come back, we must try something new. Rather, like, rather than going, no, the basics work, we just [00:56:00] have to keep doing 

Kajsa: them.

So, good. I feel like this is the part where I start asking you to comment on the three words, but not Before I've made sure that you've gotten everything in that you want to say, if there is any other soapbox you want to get on, do it. 

Aimee: I think this wasn't what we talked about at the beginning, but something's just, just come up.

And again, maybe it comes down to Dubai and that instantaneous, you can have whatever you want in 45 minutes kind of thing, but choose your trainer carefully. Not just because of the methods that they use, but because, and a lot of my clients and a lot of other trainer friends as well say this, a lot of my clients become friends because of how closely we have to work with each other, how much trust there has to be in each other.

When it comes to this, choose [00:57:00] somebody that you can trust. I don't want to come into a session and have to spend 90 minutes of my time convincing you that I'm the right trainer and that my method's going to work. I'm not saying don't question me, please question, question everything. 

Kajsa: How do you know that it is the right trainer?

How, what tips do you have for people who are looking for a trainer, maybe talking to a couple of them or going browsing their websites or whatnot? Is, is there some kind of tip or trick that you have that would allow people to tell, yes, this is? This is a good fit. 

Aimee: Now you put me on the spot. I mean, obviously, I'm always gonna say choose a force free trainer, a positive reinforcement trainer, a fear free trainer.

But yeah, take, take time to arrange, take time to arrange a phone call with the trainer rather than I do. Less recently, but I do still get messages going [00:58:00] how much and when can come rather than, and they haven't even, they haven't read the website. Like, yalla. Um, they, they, 

Kajsa: Let's go. Let's 

Aimee: go. Fix it. Um, they haven't read the website.

They haven't, even though your friend has recommended me and it's, and it's worked out, Sarah says this as well. It might be for a completely different issue. Did your friend have the same issue that the trainer helped with? Or is it apples and oranges? I don't, I don't really have good advice for choosing a, for choosing a trainer.

It's just, it's finding something, somebody that you're comfortable with. That will look different for every person. 

Kajsa: This is hard, right? Because this means that as the person looking for the trainer, you have to trust yourself enough. to be able to make that call and [00:59:00] to be able to decide that this is the person that I am comfortable with.

I do think a lot of us have sort of lost that ability to trust our own gut. I guess I might want to add that even though you might get it wrong and you might Or, or maybe not even though you might get it wrong, you might get it wrong and that's okay too. Like you can always switch trainers. You can always say, no, this isn't working.

Aimee: A hundred percent. And I know it can seem expensive when you're, when you're trying trainers because any good trainer should charge for that time always. But a lot of us will offer, like, a free, kind of, or complimentary discovery call. Like, I'm more than happy to jump on a call for 20 minutes and talk through my experience and, sort of, how I would approach your case and, and these kind of 

Kajsa: things.

Do you ever question the Efficiency of force [01:00:00] free training. Do you ever think maybe for this case, punishment is the way to go? I know this is a nasty question. 

Aimee: A few years ago, being brutally honest, I went through a huge confidence crisis. Where I was like, well, not that I would ever resort to punishment, ever, but, or maybe a punishment based trainer could see results, maybe, what are they doing, what am I missing?

And that's being brutally honest. And then I got my confidence back and I was like, don't be so ridiculous. You know that this works, and if it's not working, it's not because of the methods. It's not working because you're not gelling with the client, or yeah, it's not working because, because you're not gelling with the client, or there's a medical issue going on that we can't get to the bottom of, 

Kajsa: or [01:01:00] No, you haven't found the right approach yet.

Yes, 

Aimee: um, or sometimes clients just Don't do as they're told. Or that. You can edit that out if you want to.

Kajsa: No, I love that, that, actually I'm glad I asked it now and I love that you answered that way. Because I don't think, obviously the reason I asked it is because I sometimes go like, because of societal conditioning, because of outside pressure, because of other things that I see, like, am I doing it right? Am I missing something?

Should I maybe? Use punishment. I the doubt sometimes just creeps in and comes up and I guess that is normal and that's why I'm glad that I asked and I'm glad you were so honest in in answering that. Yes, we're going to doubt ourselves. Sometimes, and you know what? That's normal too. And 

Aimee: I [01:02:00] want my clients to trust me enough that they can tell me to not say, Oh, do you think we should go down the punishment route?

But to, to admit like, Oh, I'm really 

Kajsa: struggling. Yeah. And it's crossing my mind that maybe that would be the way out. And I just, yeah. Yeah. Like just 

Aimee: not that you're thinking of doing it, but just that you're having those doubts to have that relationship with myself. 

Kajsa: And that you can express that. 

Aimee: I want to create that atmosphere that they don't feel like they have to hide, hide things from me.

Kajsa: So good. Anything else, Amy? 

Aimee: No, I don't think so. Was there anything we talked about at the beginning that I said I wanted to talk about that I didn't? 

Kajsa: I think we covered, yeah, most of it. 

Aimee: Oh, I have a good one about the punishment, actually. Okay, bring it. That, funnily enough, Jimmy, um, excitedly messaged me.

So we, we all know that the punishment is [01:03:00] reinforcing for the punisher, because the behavior stops. Yes. Be it temporarily, whether it changes the behavior a long time or not. The punish, the behavior, your dog's barking at something continuously outside. I told you to shut up! And the dog stops. Fantastic. We, we get that instant relief.

What I never realized was that punishment is We also get a dopamine rush from it. We talk about dogs getting dopamine rushes from barking, for example, or adrenaline rushes for, from barking and from performing the behaviors we don't like, we don't look at the humans doing stuff that we as trainers don't like also getting internally reinforced for it.

Kajsa: This again, that was such a cool. Yeah. Yeah, no. And it's this inside, right. And it's where. We so often look at the dog and we recognize all of these things in the dog and [01:04:00] then we completely forget that we're a mammal too, that behavior is behavior, and that all of the same stuff applies to us. But we just kind of conveniently tend to either not think about it or just not even And maybe it's not even consciously, it's just that we're so focused on, on the dog and, and fixing the thing that we don't even pause and take a breath and consider, hey, what's, what's my side in this story?

Even though the only thing we can really directly influence is ourselves. We, we entice our dogs to try, you know, like to show behavior that we love, but that is all indirect. The only thing that we can directly influence is. And then the realization that we get a dopamine hit from using punishment is a really astounding eye opening one.

Yeah, [01:05:00] it's a big one. I think the, I'm just going over my notes and seeing like, what, what else were we going to discuss? The only thing that we haven't discussed is, is, um, being a female entrepreneur and in the. Emirates. I had my questions about it because I want to be a little bit more educated and my view of the Emirates is that of an outsider.

I have no idea. It's just what I've been, you know, like taught in, not even taught in school. It's just, I think it's just what I distill from hearing things around me. Maybe really quickly, what are your experiences as a female, uh, entrepreneur in the Emirates? 

Aimee: From the, like, the local side, so the Emirati side, I think being a female has some huge advantages.

It's allowed me to, to experience things and to go places that as a man I would not be allowed or would not have access to. [01:06:00] And to work with some fabulous people because of that 

Kajsa: as well. You might have to explain that a little bit more. So why would you have access to things that you wouldn't have access to as A male.

Aimee: Yep. So the, the, the local Emiratis, um, the females who, who have their dogs, they would, a male trainer would not be allowed to, to kind of, to enter the home, to work with them kind of unsupervised. They, they wouldn't have, they wouldn't be allowed access to, to go in and train and work with, and work with these fantastic women.

Kajsa: And that's the other sort of question that I had. We talked about this before we started recording, but I loved how you expressed it. I always say we can have the same circumstance and the story we tell about ourselves, about the circumstance either empowers us or disempowers us. And for me, having grown up in the Netherlands, being super duper privileged, I, You know, like recognize all of that.

It's very easy to [01:07:00] say, Oh, it sounds like women are being uh, oppressed there. And this is, you know, like have sort of some kind of value judgment on it. Like this is bad. And the way you expressed it was very different. And so I thought maybe you would. I'd like to highlight that side of it as well, just to give everyone a little bit food for thought.

Yeah. 

Aimee: So you can, in the Emirates, you have sort of separate waiting areas for women. You have separate train carriages. You can access women only taxis. You can, there are women only queues. You can jump to the front of certain queues when you're in sort of government kind of offices and buildings and these kind of things as a female.

So you can view that as kind of being oppressive and you can view it as, oh, women are so fragile that they have to be kept separate and they're clearly not, not capable of waiting in line [01:08:00] with men and this kind of thing. Or you can view it as, as women are very, are almost kind of revered in, certainly in in the Emirati society that, that I have seen.

And they are something to be, to be kept safe. I view it as, it's certainly a huge privilege to be able to jump to the front of the queue when I'm trying to get some paperwork signed. Um, 

Kajsa: yeah. I love that. Thank you. And I think with all of these things, it's hearing both sides of it. And then making up your mind, or not, or being able to hold that both, both viewpoints can be true at the same time, but I just very much love that you were able to give me, at least, um, that other viewpoint and give me some food for thought.

So, thank you for being willing and open to also share that on this podcast. Now, before we're going to go and make this like a [01:09:00] two hour interview, I am going to just go and ask you what I ask everyone at the end. And I know I, I warned you about it and I warned you that I was going to ask these things, so I feel comfortable asking them.

What are your thoughts on, on the words, expectation, frustration, and celebration when it comes To life in general and life with your dogs. Yeah, 

Aimee: manage, and this has been a theme throughout my entire career, right from the very beginning, manage your expectations. Um, this doesn't have to be a negative thing.

It can be as simple as Like, we don't, they're saying, we don't run before we can walk. We can't, we, we don't go from crawling to running. We crawl and then we learn to walk and then we learn to run. We still get the same goal, but we get there by breaking it down into smaller steps. So when it comes to [01:10:00] training a dog, you're not going to go from.

A dog that, like, a dog that barks at cars, you're not going to go with training in five weeks to never barking at a single car ever again. You're going to, to go to barking at every other car, to barking at every third car. So that, to me, that's what managing your expectations 

Kajsa: should look like. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm recognizing that sometimes we do want to go from crawling to running right away, but okay.

Aimee: Yeah, I had a couple of inquiries recently was, my dog barks and lunges at people on a walk, but I want to teach him to walk off leash. Okay, yeah, I can see the sticks. I guess. They were like, well, the barking and lunging at people doesn't bother me. I want to teach him to walk off leash. And I was like, oh, we can't get to the point of walking off leash [01:11:00] until we address the barking and lunging at people.

I love it. 

Kajsa: Yeah. Okay, so what about frustration? 

Aimee: Frustration is normal. I tell this to my clients a lot, and again this is the feedback that I get, is it was so nice to have you say that it was okay to be frustrated with my dog and that it's normal to be frustrated with your dog sometimes. Frustration for humans, with our dogs, it's normal and it's okay.

Just don't let it start to impact the relationship that you have with your dog. Don't let it slip into punishment. 

Kajsa: How do you Sorry, 

Aimee: question. It's my job to help you deal with those frustrations and to give you ways to make your dog less frustrating to you. 

Kajsa: Thank you for answering that. 

Aimee: Even though I didn't ask it.

Sorry. [01:12:00] 

Kajsa: Alright, celebration. Um, 

Aimee: again, don't just celebrate the big things, because it's not always the big things. It's, it's The more you celebrate those tiny things The more you're going to be able to track your progress. So again, breaking it down into small steps, so I think when, again, with a, with a reactive dog, with a dog that barks at other dogs, we measure not the absence of the reaction, but we measure the, um, the power of the reaction, for example.

So how long does it take for your dog to come back to earth to, to stop reacting after seeing the dog? How long does it take the dog to start taking treats again after? a reaction, for example. How far away is the drop? It might be that we're measuring distance of like 50 [01:13:00] centimetres, but we have to celebrate those every 

Kajsa: single win.

I love that. Just to put you on the spot one last time, what is a win that you're celebrating today? In anything? In 

Aimee: anything. Doing the podcast.

Kajsa: Awesome. I'll go too. I mean, I love having you on the podcast, but it feels kind of lame to say, to give that as a win. So I'm going to say that I walked with Rusty and so many people were walking their dogs to get ahead of the storm that's passing through today. And Rusty um, managed to disengage from each and every one of them and I managed to be present enough to realize that's my win today.

That's a huge win. 

Aimee: That's [01:14:00] what I thought. That's lots of huge wins. 

Kajsa: That's actually not a tiny win, right? That's like, like every dog is a win in 

Aimee: itself. Every dog is a win, but that's a huge win. 

Kajsa: Exactly. All right, Amy, I just want to say, I'm so glad that we were finally able to make this happen, which basically means that I was finally able to get my act together and invite you to the recording.

Thank you so much for your time, for being so open and sharing everything that you've shared. It was an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank 

Aimee: you so much for inviting me. I've loved being on here. I've loved speaking to you. You

Kajsa: can find the show notes to this episode and everything coaching on my website kajsafunoverbaked. com or you can go find us on Instagram at The Russ Cattle Dog or maybe even Facebook kajsafunoverbakedcoaching. If you like [01:15:00] listening to this, Podcast might I ask you for a good review on whichever platform you're listening to the podcast to because it helps us move up in the rating which helps us be found more easily so that more people can listen to this, more people can benefit from it, more people can feel as I always say less alone in where they stand with their dogs.