Mental Health Working Mom's Gripe Session

The gripe gals are back with highlights like Dad summer, finding your village, crying while giving babysitting instructions to grandpa, loved ones getting the leftovers, and more. Hosted by Sanford COO Katie Vokes and joined by CEO Tracy Rogers, Sr. Director of Strategic Development Rebecca Wolfslau, Director of Nursing Kate Hanna, and Art/Clinical Therapist Janna VanderBand. For comments, questions, or gripes, reach us at info@sanfordhouse.com, subject line: Gripe Session

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

I am a single parent. And so I like started crying on the phone with him. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I wish that there was more people that I could like reach out to to get help when I need to go on a work trip, but I don't. And so I'm I'm talking to a grandpa of all people. And I'm like, you have to take her to dance. She has to be a dance at this time. She has to wear tight clothing so that they can teach her where her body is in comparison to the room. She has to be in tennis shoes. Also, she wears this to bed where she doesn't go to sleep. And then in the morning, you have to make sure to get sunscreen on her face before camp because that's the only spot on her body that will burn. So, like cheeks, really important. Outside of that, don't worry about it. And I'm like describing that to a grandpa who's like, what? Um, also, she has a certain type of sock that she likes. I started like literally crying on the phone because I was like, I'm really sorry to put this on you, dad. But it reminds me of that description of like giving away the little, giving away your scales and like feeling like you have nothing left for for you. But then I get to the end of these conversations and I'm like, shit, I just put all of this on someone else's shoulders. That Kate, to your point from earlier, Kate was mentioning how we just have it in our head. It's like super easy for us because we do it all the time. And then when you go to describe it to someone else or put that burden on someone else, it can feel really heavy.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

I had um something similar. I actually was just texting my cousin who I'm really close to and watches my kids sometimes on Monday. I had to ask her because I was gonna work late and my husband was doing something I don't remember, but I had to have her go and take the kids to swim class, bring them home and feed them. And I like texted her and I was like, unsolicited advice like find your village early on when you have kids, because that's the only thing that's helping me get through all of it. But it's a good little transition point right now. So I want to do just a little intro. So this is the second episode of our mental health working mom's gripe session. We have Rebecca, Tracy, and myself again, but we also have Jana Vanderban and Kate Hannah. So I wanted to give you two a chance, just introduce yourselves, uh, what's your role at Sanford, and then um maybe like a little bit about your family and your home life. Welcome to the fun, guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Uh I can start. Um, so I'm Jana. I uh am an art therapist and uh clinical therapist here at Sanford. That's I work with the substance use and mental health uh primary, primarily at home. I have a son who is eight, almost nine, uh daughter who is six, almost seven, um, and then uh a daughter who's two and a half. My husband is a teacher. He teaches high school ceramics. Uh so he does like school of dad during the summer, which has its beautiful points and it has its really difficult points. Like I'm the only one that leaves the house the majority of the week, other than bringing my youngest to daycare to keep her spot. So like they get to go off and do all these fun things. Uh and they're like, Mom, why don't you have a break? Like, well, this this is how the majority of jobs work. And so he gets a lot of time with them. We we have a busy little household with lots going on.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

And I am um a nurse. I did bedside nursing for 25 years, all in mental health, um, and then recently became the director of nursing here at Stanford um a few months ago. So that's a very different schedule than bedside nursing, 12-hour shifts. I would only work three days a week and then have the rest of my week to hang out with my kids. So this has been an adjustment for my family. Um, at home, I have four kids a little bit older than Jana's. Um my oldest just turned 21. That's uh my oldest daughter, and then I have a daughter that um is 18. She'll be going off to college as well this year. And my only son is 16, and my youngest daughter is 13. So I was telling the the girls, I'm Jana's in the thick of it, and you know, everyone with little kids, you're in the thick of it in terms of like baths and all this kind of stuff. I'm in the thick of it in terms of going to different states for sporting events and you know, following my kids wherever they're going to cheer them on whatever they're doing. So it's definitely a busy time. Um, my husband is he worked in higher ed administration for a long time and then about four years ago got a job as um a tech working for a uh tech company, works from home. So his summers are working in his home office and trying to make the kids be quiet while he's working. So he's right, he's ready when I get home from work. He's ready to get out of the house and go for a walk and you know, anything to not be in his little office. So I'm happy to go for walks with him when I get home.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Go ahead, Katie. I was just gonna ask Kate, like one of the things I was really curious about. So you like have spent this time in as a nurse in mental health and direct care, but it's only been a few months in this director role. Obviously, like you said, it's a big transition for your family. I'm curious, like, if you want to talk a little bit more about this and like tell us more about what has like how has it impacted like you and at home and like emotionally and mentally and all of the things, right? Like I'm sure there's great parts about it, and I'm sure there's probably moments where you're like, was this the right decision?

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Yeah. Um, I think we I mentioned to you a couple weeks ago when we were meeting. This is the kind of job I I was used to having a job where I would go do my job and then go home and do my job at home and not think about really what happened at work. And this isn't that kind of job. You know, I kind of have to be accessible and responsive. So that's been uh something that I'm still acclimating to. Um, that my family is needing to acclimate to as well. Before my schedule was, you know, I worked night shift for most of my career. Um, so because that was better for my family, I was able to go to after school stuff. I was able to go to parent teacher conferences during the day, whatever it was. Pretty much every decision I've made as a nurse has been for my family, except this one. So this is, you know, this is a decision I've made for the company and, you know, somewhat for myself as well. But in my schedule before, I was able to do a lot more meal prep, a lot more meal planning, a lot more. I with my schedule, I'm still able to go to my the evening activities and everything, but I don't have the luxury of time that that I used to have. So I have to be a lot more intentional with my time. I was listening to a podcast a little while ago about having a like a clock that you're always wearing, hearing it ticking the time away so that you don't waste your time with your kids because they're gonna be gone. Mine are already leaving. So, you know, when I walk in the door, I I've always been very intentional with my children, like making sure that I have a personal connection with them every day. And they know that as soon as I walk in the door, it's I want to see them. So they usually come come running to me. You know, someone's usually sitting on my lap within the five minutes of me getting home or something, you know, even though they're big kids. I think that they understand that time is precious. So they seek it out with me and I have to seek it out with them intentionally because sometimes I get home and my kids are at work or they're at, you know, and like my 18-year-old daughter, I haven't seen her, I don't think, since Sunday, just because our schedules have not matched up. So I was kind of waiting at home this morning to see if she'd get up before I left. And she didn't. So I'm looking really looking forward to seeing her tonight and spending some time with her. My kids aren't eating as well as they used to. So that I mean, it's just I have to make the most of the time that I have, you know, on the weekends doing more of that meal prep, meal planning. I love to cook, I just don't have time to do it anymore. My husband has taken on a lot more of that than he had in the past. He's he's a servant by nature, so he's always pretty much done our laundry. He's amazing. He likes to grill, but doesn't really do much besides that. So we've been eating a lot of grilled chicken and burgers lately. So yeah, but I think it's just like intentionality, every, you know, making the most of every moment that that you have with your with your people, making sure you keep the most important things the most important things, making adjustments in your schedule to allow for that. You know, if I say that my family is the most important, then I have to to live that way. Yeah, I'm just sorry, I almost started crying there, but I hope that's a good thing. Oh, you almost got me. No, no, no, you almost got me.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah. So I mean, okay, one of the things we talked about in the first time, like there's like that's the purpose of this, I think, is you know, there's like really no apologizing for like venting or crying, or you know, for most of us, well, I'd say for me, coffee counts as a food group. I I also often say that to my family a lot. Like, did you eat today? Well, no, like it's I I haven't, but I haven't really thought about it. And you know, I think like usually like for me, if I'm crying, it's probably most of the time it's because I'm laughing, because we don't allow ourselves to slow down enough to um to really think through like how hard this is. So the purpose of this for for you and Jana is that this is like judgment free zone, right? And i if like my child gets to eat cereal for dinner, like I'm succeeding, you know, and and we kind of get going on like things that have happened just yesterday, right? Some of us maybe left depending, right, on work. Like you we could have left a a board meeting or we could have left cleaning up a poopy diaper, or you know what I mean? It's um I don't know. I go back and forth on how I've navigated as a mom and and actually got to these positions that all of us on this call are on, because I mean, back in the day when I was barely making it, so I was, you know, I say Wolfie, probably you and Janna's, well, Katie E2, y'all's kids' age. So my son is 12, Kate. And I remember in the thick of it, and he ate it, which is crazy, but I was so tired that Beckett, my son's name is Beckett, he got ketchup on his waff ketchup on his waffles instead of syrup because he was just he was young, he didn't know, but I was so tired that I didn't pick the right stuff out of the refrigerator. You know, and I think so. For this, it's like getting moms to understand like you can talk about it, doesn't mean you're a failure. You know, it doesn't mean that's what trying to create a culture here. I want to figure out Kate how today, like, Kate, go home. I'll go sit in your office, go to lunch with your daughter. Like that is working. I yeah. Oh, okay, but like maybe go home for work from home today. Go to lunch. Like, seriously, like organizations have to, you know, we know I know Wolfie's mom schedule by heart pretty much because it's she's a single mom. My son is home by himself for the first time today, and I called him right before coming into here while picking up Monica and stuff. I'm like, do not eat. And he goes, Mom, what do you mean? I said, Don't eat. Don't eat anything. And he goes, Mom, uh, it's okay. And I said, You can't have a bagel, you can't have grapes, you can't have because he will choke. Like Beckett like inhales his food. And he goes, Okay, mom, I'll just have yogurt. And then call my mom and say, Will you just keep Beckett on FaceTime till you know, till somebody gets there? Because there's some transition with him leaving and stuff today. So I would say, whatever that weight is for our team, not everybody listening to this podcast has this luxury, but Kate, go home, be with her. Because you're absolutely right. There's this period ahead of time that Kate will explain as well or agree with me in that all of a sudden they just don't need you. Like my kid is super affectionate and super no boundaries, and now he's locking the bathroom door. And I'm like, wait a minute. Last week I was drying you off still. Right. And right. And now you want me to lock the door, or now he goes to bed, like if I'm I get to where I get so busy and if my office door is shut, he doesn't come in. And I'll be like, one more minute, Katie, same thing with Sloan that one day. One more minute, I go up and he's already in bed asleep, and I'm like, dang it, you gotta just make time because it's anything can happen, right? Very, very soon. Um, and what's hard, I think, is what you were talking through, Kate, is like there's guilt because you want this for you, right? It's like I want this career, but then it's like, man, I got these kids that I really want to be with.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Okay, just you just brought something up that hit me right in the core. Tyler, my kiddo, she's seven. At my house, at dad's house, she showers. But at my house, she refuses to. It's bath time, I don't want to shower, all the things. And I'm so incredibly busy 24-7, literally, because I take overnight admissions calls, that I'm like, please, will you please just get in the shower? It's so much easier, it's so much quicker. But Tracy, what you just said really stood out to me because I'm like, crap. I still get back time and I still get to hold on to that a little bit longer, which means drying her off afterwards, rinsing her hair out, all the things that um I love to do as a mom. And I get to hold on to that a little bit longer. That just really stood out to me as like a moment to cherish instead of rush through. I can end up down a lot of social media algorithms that it's a bad thing to want to be in leadership while also being a mom. And then that guilt is there because of the social media that I'm ingesting of like, why would you want to climb the corporate ladder if you have a child? And I've been thinking so much lately about how that's not a bad thing and how I also have to pay attention to what I'm watching on social media to where it actually aligns with my values. Because one thing that I've been talking to Kyler a lot about, if she's like, Mom, guys, thoughts for one second.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Rebecca's light keeps going out in the office that she's sitting in. She's like, it's motion censored, so she's like jumps back up.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

So um, she'll be like, Mom, I, you know, you're working too much, or you know, whatever she says. Honestly, I don't even know that she says that. I think I'm placing it on myself. But one thing that I've been trying to talk to her about is like how important our work is too, so that she can start to understand that, right? Like we're a group of humans who are pouring so much of ourselves into helping other humans, making sure that they have access to care, that they can be supported, that they get the treatment they deserve. And so I found myself trying to bring that to Kyler and say, like, I'm so sorry Mommy has to take a call. Mom's passion is really to make sure that other humans, as well as yourself, get support and help. And trying to help her to understand or make that connection because we are doing such important work as well. And so I don't know how you all feel about that, but I've been trying to talk to her about that of like, come sit by mom while I do my phone call. I do this because humans need help in the world. Just like I hope someday, if you heaven forbid, ever need help, that there's humans there that are like ready to help you too.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah, I love that. It's actually, I was gonna ask you, Jana, like being a therapist and like you're working directly with clients all day, and then you're shifting from that, you know, to going home with the kids. Do your kids like know what you do? Do they have an understanding? Yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

And I was thinking about that as Rebecca was sharing, because I have noticed, like up until now, my kids have been they're on the younger end, right? So I've just been very vague about what I do. Like I go and I help people, I sit with them when they're having a hard time, when they're feeling really sad, when they're feeling really angry. But my son in particular, I mean, he'll be nine in August. And I've been thinking about, you know, how do I start to explain this more specifically to him? Because he's definitely old enough. What is substance use? Um, what is our mental health? Like they talk about it in school and they come home and I'm like, oh, I'm so impressed. Uh like this person was feeling really sad today. So I walked with them, or you know, so I I'm getting to a point where I'm starting to say, like, oh, how do I get more specific about what I do and talk about like how art helps people and how what it looks like to do what I do? Because I I can tell it doesn't make sense to them sometimes. That like my husband's a teacher, so he comes home, he tells all these stories, and he talks about his high school kids and the weird things they do, and they can go with him to things, uh, because he doesn't have to keep their lives private and then trying to figure out how do I talk about what what I do and share that, but in a way where I'm still like protecting the people that I am working with. Like it's an interesting thing to balance. Uh and also I want I want them to like know things. I want them to understand that people can have a hard time and uh that some things are really sad and and some things are really exciting and happy. And uh how do we get support for all those things?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Oh, go ahead, Katie. And I have it's interesting what all of this is circling back to. So just remind me to circle back to what Janna just said about balance. So go ahead, Katie. Yeah, because I have mine written down.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Mine's really close. I was just gonna say, um, I some my kids are six and four, and they ask obviously, what do you do for work or whatever? And it's really difficult to explain like operations to a six and a four-year-old. So one time I was like, I work at a hospital. Well, that wasn't enough because now they think I'm a doctor. And I can't even tell you how many times I've had to be like, mom's not a doctor. I work with doctors and I help doctors take care of patients. I'm not a doctor. That's really funny. Hospital and doctor. And like, you have to go to work because you have to take care of your patients. I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

So that's hilarious. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

For those K K, you don't know, and Janna probably doesn't know either. I have a pretty strong spiritual life. And so I spent a ton of time in the morning preparing for my day. So Wolfie asked me this morning, what time did you wake up? And I probably three years ago said to God, Hey, wake me up if you want me to spend more time with you because I don't have it. So he now wakes me up at the same time. It's usually between it's usually 4.34. It's a weird number. Today was 434. No, because it's uh amazing enough is I feel more energized now that I brought him into it. That's my own belief system. So last night I went to bed about one-ish. Um, and I woke up at 4.36 today. And one of the things that I asked, he always comes back and I say, put some somebody or conversation in my life today that answers my question. So, Jana, you asked, you asked or answered it already. And it's coincidentally I wrote all of this down this morning. And so, how do we do it all? How do we how do we serve our families? How do we lead? All of us are leading. How do I ask God to help me steward the responsibilities that He's given me in leading you all? And so, like weaving that into um like balance and responsibility, one of the biggest questions I think we all have right now, as well as every woman or family member, it could be a dad watching this, right, has is how do I do this? I think for me, I started in in in administration. I was 24 years old, running a hospital, didn't know what the heck I was doing. And I had a um young child, which was my husband at the time, not my son, Beckett. My I say my I didn't have Beckett until I was 36, but I had a young marriage. Um, and I didn't know. I didn't know how to, how do I choose being a new wife? And how do I choose my ambition? Because I always knew, like I'm I knew I wanted to be a leader. I knew God put that in me. Um, but how am I gonna be this good wife like my mom, right? My mom was a stay-at-home mom, devouted mom, made dinners every night. Like she like, I didn't even know where to find the spices in publics at the time. Um, but I believe that like through my faith is that God's given us this gift and we got to learn how to set the margin with it, you know, and and set the margin with our families. Because we do, you know, we do have to be um, how do I explain it? We do have to be be both. And I don't know exactly how you you said it, Jana, but what I wrote down is uh stop chasing the balance, uh ch chasing the balance, Tracy, and create alignment, right? So for me, balance implies everything gets equal time, right? That's what we're taught, but it doesn't. There are some days that Kate Samford's gonna get your best energy, and there's some days it's not. There's some days that you know what, Wolfie, you're gonna miss a call because you gotta drive drive Kyler off. The question is Is are our choices really aligned with what matters most? So it doesn't mean that what we do in work doesn't matter. It just means right now in this moment, bathing my child matters most, right? And I think for me, what's great about here us here at Sanford is we have the ability to do that. Not everybody does, right? Folks watching this call can be like, but work, but work, but work does this and does that. And so um, the other thing I wrote down is building your support group or your support system without guilt. All of us on this call, all of us are successful women. We're not successful because we do everything ourselves, right? So we build our teams, we build our friends, we build our husbands and at work and at home, right? And so I think what we have to remember, and I'm saying all this because I don't do all of this. This is something that I'm still learning, is it's not a weakness to say, hey, Katie or hey, Wolfie. On this day, like it's hard right now. Nick got called out. I'm taking Beckett to baseball. Can you handle this? And that happens a lot internally, Jana, with some of us. But the biggest thing for me is let's not hide motherhood. Without me being a mom, I don't know that I would be the same leader. I think that I have learned more from Beckett, my son, about leadership and being in a position that I am in than any other degree, schooling, boss, performance improvement plan, anything because he's taught me empathy, patience. Uh Kyler teaching you, Teddy's teaching you, uh, Katie. Um definitely patience. Conflict resolution, crisis management, all of that, right? And so I think like just to wrap up, because I could go on and on because I write a lot in the morning, is like just be present. We gotta learn, and how do we do this? You know, how Katie, do you be present where you are? Meaning when I'm at work, I lead. When I'm with my children, be there. When I don't have to be perfect for you all and perfect for Nick and Beckett, I I just need to show up. And you know, and so I think it's really, you know, just asking the question, what I asked myself this morning, because I've I've always focused on, you know, what success looks like. And I think climbing is a curse, to be honest, and it's different for every one of us women. You know, some want a corner office, some want flexibility, some want to build something different, meaningful, but it's just you you have to say, what defines sex success for me? And I finally realized after doing this now 20 something years, like I actually want to design what that success looks like. And then ultimately we got to give ourselves grace. So maybe for yourself, like what does that look like? You know, for you, Katie, or you know, it's okay to have thousands of loads of laundry. Forget it. Forget the laundry.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, my um Instagram algorithm has been giving me a lot of content about this exact thing. And for, you know, I think Jana, Rebecca, and I are like around um and Kate are like around the same age. Um, but like there's a lot of stuff on social media right now about like millennial moms who were told to do things a certain way, right? And you work hard and you get the job, and then you have the kids and all these things, climb the corporate ladder, whatever. Um, and then you come to this realization that that's not necessarily what I want. So I've been getting a lot of that, like just from social media lately. But I, as you were asking that question, Tracy, I have come to the realization that success for me is doing work that is purposeful to me and having freedom. And that is something that like looking ahead at like what I want my career to look like and what I want to do next, and whatever it is, is like, how do I get myself to a place where I have both of those things? And and I have a lot of that right now for sure. I'm not saying I don't, but like the the flexibility is so much more valuable to me than it was 10 years ago. I mean, I I know we all would agree with that. So yeah, I think be purposeful and and the the freedom piece of it for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Tracy, you said something that I have to speak on. The don't hide your motherhood. And so one thing that I've been trying to do a lot lately is not hide it and celebrate almost my motherhood within the team. And one thing that I did recently, I don't know if anybody noticed this. We all know I'm not an organized human. I'm not your type C of the group by any means. That's why I love strategy. That being said, I almost always forget to put my automated messages up when I'm out of office, but I've been trying really hard to remember that. And I put an automated message up recently and I literally said, I'm out of office celebrating my daughter's seventh birthday. I'll be, you know, I'll answer emails when I return. And similar in our team's messages sometimes of like, hey, I, you know, I need a moment to take Tyler to the park because I took overnight call last night. And so I'm I'm trying to make balance within my own life. And so you saying don't hide motherhood, I think like within teams too, like we get to celebrate that I am gonna take a few days off to celebrate my daughter's birthday. I'm not just out of the office, I'm actually really excited because my little one's turning seven and being able to bring that to teams, you know, even our clients, and as long as it's appropriate, and the world as well.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

I also identified with that, uh, just not hiding your motherhood. And I was it makes me think of when I returned from my most recent maternity leave, I was pumping for like a a year. Um, but now they have these like cool pumps that like you don't have to be connected to anything. They just like are there really uh game changers. Are they quiet? They are fairly quiet. I I didn't get like the highest quality. I think those are more quiet, but they're not terribly loud. If there's like stuff going on, you don't really hear it. And of course they don't like pump with clients, so that'd be weird.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

But we got we got into a pumping. It's funny that we and we always get to come back to this guy. Pumping, we yeah, our first one we talked about pumping Janet, so this is fun.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Uh and so I would just like sit in the office and people would come in and sometimes it would be quiet and they'd be like, What's that noise? And we kind of look at each other and be like, oh that that's me. Just milking. Don't worry. Uh no worries, just you know, feeding my child. And so it it really like brought me to there's it's a little bit humbling, uh, to like this is a natural thing that like I have to do, otherwise I will not feel good. Uh, and also I need it for my child. And also like, I'm here working, and I need to be able to uh I'm here working and uh I need to be able to do both. And so how do I balance both? Um it's just it's a funny thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

I used to not be able to do that. I don't know about Kate, but I have a very similar thing that happened. But our back in the day, Kate, well, not it's not that long ago, but 12 years ago, they're allowed. And I was pumping in my office and my CEO was a male, and he walked in, he's like, What are you doing? I'm like, it's obvious. Like, what I'm doing, you know? And so it's it's kind of neat. Like eventually we're just gonna be able to not me, because I'm past that now, but you can just wear a bra and walk around and it's like a you know, goloski bag where it's just you know ends it out at the end of the day, you know, it's continuously pumping, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

I could like walk down the hallway and like I'd like go get something, and I'm like, wow, pumping and I'm walking. Like I felt so productive.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

My sister and I had had kids around the same time, and she was also a nurse working night shift. So I would go to the pumping room at the hospital I worked at, would be pumping, whatever, and I would get a text from her saying, What is your pump saying tonight? Because the old pumps used to be so loud that it sounds like they were talking to you. And she's like, minus saying gecko. Minus saying gecko tonight.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

With the not hiding the motherhood, and then what we were just talking about was pumping, because we did talk about pumping on the first podcast too. But it just made me think about like the not hiding motherhood. I remember when I was pumping, I was so unapologetic about it. I was like, here's the thing. I'm gonna feed my child for a year. That's my goal. It's something that I want to do personally. So someone's gonna give me the space, the refrigerator, whatever is needed to store this. I had meetings with people who, if they were comfortable, they would come in my office because you are covered. If not, I'm not even kidding you. I had a couple meetings where it was like between a doorway or a speakerphone in the same office space. But I remember being so unapologetic about it. And so it just brought me back to that that piece of not hiding motherhood. And somewhere along the line, I feel like I I started to apologize for being a mom. And then I think in being here and with Tracy and the podcast, I have stopped or I'm healing from feeling like I have to apologize for being a mom or for, you know, wanting to be with Kyler in a certain type of way. And so I think that's a big deal. And I wonder like how many people listening right now are either not to that place yet, or collectively are we all going through some type of healing process of like not apologizing for both being a working mom and a mom and doing them together, even though it's messy. But I don't know when life was ever supposed to be anything but messy. That's kind of the fun in it.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah. I feel like I'm the I might be experiencing even like the other end of that where I have found myself, especially in the last year and a half, being apologetic for working and having to feeling like I had to defend myself. Um, and and not, you know, not that friends or family, they I don't think they were there was malicious intent in it, right? But it was like, why don't you just not do that? Or why don't you just go home or why don't and granted, yes, boundaries are important. I have always had to work on that for sure. But even beyond that, like I've gotten different opportunities and I've, you know, people close in my life have been like, well, why would you want to do that? You've got two little kids at home. And then I'm like, what I I feel like I can have both. I've and again, like the balanced thing is I said this in the last podcast, balanced thing is bullshit. Indra Nui is that CEO from Pepsi who talks about it in her book. But I firmly believe that I can have both. And I think it's not gonna always be pretty. And again, like you had said before, Tracy, like at some point one of them is gonna be not getting enough and whatever. But I also don't want to be apologetic for wanting the job and doing the job that I'm doing because I love it and I'm proud of it, and it means a lot to me and it's important to me. And I think that it's totally fair to want both of those things and try to stumble along to make it happen. Um, and it's also important to me that my kids see that those things are important to me, right? That I value like determination and hard work and resiliency and that I also value them and family and and all of that. So there's just such a spectrum, right? Like it's there's so many different dynamics in all of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

No, for me, I feel like parenting and and mothering is like such a work of justice. Uh, and so like I am being a good mom by creating space for other moms and parents to be good moms and for my girls to be able to step into the workforce and make decisions. And if they want to be president, like they can bring their baby to work someday, like and show up and be talking to the entire nation while breastfeeding. Like, what a beautiful thing. Uh, and so like uh that for me has been helpful in thinking about like I'm never not mom, I'm never not my working self, I'm never not just this collage of all the things. And that entering into these spaces and making sure that we have space to allow people to be humans, uh, is like I'm carving the space for them and I'm creating this and bringing justice uh into the workforce to allow space for other people to be humans and live their lives.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

That's like that's an amazing concept. That's yeah, that's so powerful. Um, Jana, when you I'm like so curious because so obviously I'm not a therapist, I'm not a nurse. So my question's kind of both for Kate and for Jana, but um, Rebecca and Tracy are clinicians, so you guys have experience too. So I guess it's for all of you. You spend all day working with the population that we serve, and that on its own can be heavy, right? The there's a big mental load that comes with that. How does that transition go for you guys from okay, you've seen your last client, you did your last session for the day, you might have had some really challenging ones or some really terrible news, like different things that just happen in mental health and behavioral health. What is it like for you when then you have that drive home to kind of shift and then show up for your kids in a way that like you don't want them to know that you just had a heavy day?

SPEAKER_04 35:20

I've driven home after a really long shift when I was working on the eating disorder unit. And sometimes that's a lot of mental capacity that you're using all day long. And I've driven home on the highway driving 40 miles an hour because I couldn't make my body do what I it needed to do to get home because I was just so spent. So there is, you know, Jana, you talked about you're a collage of all these different people, but there is there does for me, there has to be go ahead, Rebecca. Um, there has to be a little bit of compartmentalization, you know, being able to say so that I can give my children what they need and give my husband what he needs. And there I I do try to create spaces to process what happens at work in a in a in a place that's appropriate. But I I I really try to sometimes I go sit in my garage when I pull into the into my house and just hope that no one saw me pull in so I can have five minutes to just sit in quiet and kind of get my turn my brain a different way so that I can make peace with what happened during the day and go in and not feel like they're feeling I'm like I've been pulled down. So yeah, just like like I said before, just being intentional about the way that I'm thinking as I walk into my home.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Well, I don't um to be completely honest, I guess, since this is what this is about, right, Katie? Katie knows me well, pretty well, I would say, Katie, and you've been around me outside of here. Like if I'm really honest, I don't do it at all. I wish I could really say, like, every single day, like I walk through the door and I'm completely present. I think the only time, not even like my son and Kate, I think we've talked about this. My son plays Janet competitive baseball, and it's the life. It literally is our life. Part of it is just he's we've been kind of told that he um has a gift that I don't completely understand. I only know baseball from what I know, but I I feel like I'm sometimes completely present um watching him, but I'm not. Like I always have to have my emails to zero every day. I would love to be able to say, like, hey, I leave that weight behind of the day and that I immediately become this patient, engaged mom that, you know, my family deserves. But when I really think about it, that's not. I mean, maybe there's bits of it, but that's not always my reality. The only time it has been my reality is when I was in Alaska and there's no cell phone service. My I have a split brain in a sense where I can do a lot at the same time and multitask, which my husband will tell you, multitasking is really unit's not productive at all. Um, it's the way I've always been. But I think sometimes most of the time, and now that I work a lot remotely, when my and I think Katie one time you said I get jealous when you can come to Michigan because I live in Tampa, um, because I don't have to think about anything else, um, which is true. Uh, but I think sometimes when I walk through the door, my mind is still at work. I don't walk in the door, I walk out of the door really in my office. And so I don't sleep well if I'm replaying conversations, if I'm thinking about decisions, if I'm worried about, I say my people are people, if I'm carrying the weight of things that like happen during the day. And I think the hard part of all of that, and maybe you guys have this same thing, is it's that people that I love the most get all of my leftovers. I don't do this well at all. My kids slept on my couch from two to six when I was a CEO the first go-around. That's why I stopped being a CEO because I missed two to six. But I tell you all, and I told Katie this and Kate, you know, don't and everybody listening, don't do it. It really is not worth you can't pay for the time that you miss. So both can be true though. You can still have your career and do it. All I'm saying is don't have it be a 2080, you know, don't have your kids sleeping on a couch or not eating, you know. And so I think just being honest with yourself and say, okay, what do I gotta do? And then you gotta surround yourself with people like we have here that says, you know what? And I'm gonna tell you, Kate, I'll use Kate as an example, Wolfie. You've been here with me before. Like, I haven't seen my daughter in seven days. Katie, is it okay if I go home today? I'm gonna guarantee you, anywhere here, we will not say no to that. We just won't. You know, if you're listening and you're like, man, this is really cool. Like, you know, reach out to us and um you can join us and we continue to share stories. And really, all this is about is just supporting each other. That's why we started this.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yeah, really appreciate Jana and Kate, you guys, for joining us. Really, I think it's so special what we're trying to do here with this and creating the space for everybody. Um, and it's just wonderful to have you both. So thank you guys so much. Yeah, come again.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

If you guys, if you want to come again, just tell tell Katie, tell Marilyn. Just I mean, one day maybe we'll have 25 people on 25 women. They're just gonna keep growing and growing, growing. Yeah, cool. Thanks, everybody. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Have a good day.