What If “The One” Is Someone You Become? with Kelsey Grant

What if “the one” isn’t a person you find but a capacity you grow into? That question drives our heart-forward conversation with relationship coach and musician Kelsey Grant as we separate fear from truth, chemistry from compatibility, and secrecy from the kind of honesty that actually deepens love. We start where most dating advice ends: inside. If you can map your partner’s patterns but can’t name your own feelings, you’re flying blind. Kelsey shows us how introspection reveals whether “something’s missing” is a saboteur or a signal, and why starving attraction to preserve safety only pushes desire into the shadows.

From there we widen the lens. Dating apps aren’t destiny; your inputs shape your worldview. Kelsey shares how unplugging from viral cynicism, touching grass, and engaging serendipity can transform how—and where—you meet compatible people. Fate sets the collision, she says, but free will writes the story. Multiple true loves can and do exist across a lifetime, each one preparing us to hold a fuller, freer partnership.

We go straight at the tender stuff too: what to do when you feel drawn to someone while you’re committed. The answer isn’t panic or secrecy. It’s clean communication, pre-agreed boundaries, and running honest diagnostics on the relationship you already have. If a core nutrient is missing and cannot be cultivated, completion can be the most loving move for both people. Along the way, we trade checklists for character, talk emotional sobriety, and use a musician’s ear to tell wound resonance from heart resonance—the felt harmony that’s equal parts peace and aliveness.

If you’re ready to replace fantasy with clarity, widen your field without abandoning your integrity, and treat relationships as a school for becoming, this conversation will give you language, practices, and courage. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more people find the show.

Transcript

Welcome & Guest Reintroduction

SPEAKER_00 0:25

What's up, y'all? Welcome back. Thank you so much for joining me on this beautiful Monday morning or Monday afternoon or even Tuesday, wherever you are across the world. My good friend Kelsey Grant is back on the show, rejoining us for her second interview. It's been years since I've spoken to her, uh, and at least in a podcast capacity, we we chat here and there. Um, Kelsey's brilliant. She's been like a relational uh coach that sort of works in like alchemy and intimacy in couples, and then also around sex, you know, a ton of things. She's also a musician. Um, so we we share that in common. We talk about a lot in this episode, but I really sort of focus around the idea of the current dating realm and being in a relationship, knowing that it's the right one for you, how to tell if it's like your trauma that's preventing you from connecting or your truth, how to tell sort of like complete compatibility from maybe just parts or partial compatibility, um, how to tell if we're making excuses for ourselves or our partners, or if we're not actually accepting love or giving love. Um, it's just a lot of good stuff in here. We have just a good, deep, hard-to-heart conversation about relationships and about relationships as a cornerstone of growth if we choose to use them in such a way and learn the lessons that are in front of us. Um, so again, huge shout out to Kelsey. Um, if you want to find her on social media or work with her, I'll throw links to all of her stuff in the show notes. And um, I'll as always, if you guys want to reach out and you know, throw some some guests you might want me to interview on the show, just throw an email to coaching at nicobarassa.com. And uh as always, if you want to work with me, www.nicobarassa.com is where you want to go. Um, yeah, so let's get into the episode. Kelsey Grant. Kelsey, thank you so much for coming back on the show. Uh it's lovely having you again. And uh one, I just want to apologize because I know I have been terrible over the past couple years and trying to schedule because I've been going through my own stuff with health and all this other stuff, and you've always responded, you've always been super up for it, you know. And I just want to say thank you because you're you're always down to have a conversation if you can fit in your schedule. And that's uh, you know, just really appreciated on my side. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Oh, you're very welcome. And if there's one thing I know, it's how life can be so like one direction and then it switches gears, and like I get, you know, when things have to shift and change and flexibility is a muscle that I've been working for a long time. And I just really appreciate that acknowledgement. That means a lot.

unknown 2:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Absolutely, yeah, no, for sure. I I just I believe in being accountable for things, you know. So I've been really difficult to schedule with. And, you know, I I one wanted to get you back on the show one, because you and I have built a friendship since you know we we first connected with each other, but also I just want to see like, what have you been up to? What have you been doing? You know, something that's been on my mind recently. I mean, I feel like it's always on my mind because I'm always thinking about like how we relate to others and ourselves, and especially as I age, is like I look back on past relationships that I was in, and I and you you brought up before we started recording sort of a friend that like, you know, found the one and then the next person was the one, right? And I I remember like very distinct feelings when I fell in love with certain people I was in partnership with where I literally felt that I was like, this person is amazing, right? But then as time went on, I was able to see like this person is still a good person, but there's like there's just something missing, right? And I think a lot of times it can be something missing within ourselves, sure, but it can also be like a like a some sort of incompatibility somewhere that we one, we're either ignoring or not paying attention to. I've since like recently realized that there's a good amount of like younger folks that listen to the show that are in their early 20s, mid-20s, early 30s. And I wonder like what you would say to the idea of folks being in a relationship with someone that's like a good person, right? They're compatible on some levels, but there's not like that, I don't know, like like just when you sit in front of someone, like there's been people I meet in my life, and maybe timing isn't doesn't work out, right? Maybe they're in a relationship, but like there's I I'm like, oh my, I could this person I could so easily connect with, right? Like how we handle conflict, how we view life, how we view spirituality, how we view compassion, all these things. For people that are in a relationship or trying to get in a relationship, and it's kind of like almost it, like how do you in your mind help people realize if it's them that's missing a part of themselves and you know, they're sort of making problems, or if it's something missing in the relationship or in the other person?

SPEAKER_02 5:06

You know, I I love this question because I probably would have answered it very different, you know, 10 years ago.

Knowing Yourself Inside A Relationship

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

But now, like the only way to really know is by going in and experiencing the relationship and experiencing yourself in the relationship and getting to know the inner terrain of your own heart. So if you are very externally focused and you're tracking them a lot and you've figured out all their patterns and you know, you know everything about how they maneuver through the world, but that same level of intentionality has not been turned inward, that would be the first place that I would start. So I would, if I was working with someone like that, I would be watching how they're kind of talking about the relationship, how they're talking about their partner, because a lot of the times women come to me and they they know everything about their partner. And then I ask them how they're feeling, and they're like, uh what's a feeling? Right. So that to me would always point to there's probably something internally that is gotten rattled. There's probably a protector part that is kind of up and flared. And also, like even if there are protector parts that get in the way and it kind of steamrolls the relationship or you end the relationship, my personal belief is that that's exactly what was supposed to happen. Like they still weren't the one, and we can get really caught in this mental bind of, you know, they were the one, they were the one, they were the one. Well, they were the one for that period of time.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

But the one is a whole different ball game. And I think we work up to that. Like, I'm not totally sold on the idea that people meet the one in their 20s. I know that it can happen, but until you've really experienced yourself and you've lived life a little bit, I I don't know that it's the one.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

You know, as someone in her mid-40s now, I'm like, God, I'm so glad I didn't marry the men that I dated in my 20s. Like, even though in my 20s it felt like they were the one. Yeah. They it they really did. And but there was always something missing. And I think that there's a deeper intelligence that is always operating through us, that even if it is your self-sabotage or maybe it is a misalignment, that again, those are all working in your favor to move you along this progression of learning yourself and learning how to be a really good partner. Because a lot of people focus on like, do they meet my checklist instead of like what's their character like? Absolutely, you know, or they go to the ex the other extreme of like this person's really nice and they have a good character, but I don't want to fuck them. Like I'm not attracted to them.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Right.

Safety, Attraction, And Missing Pieces

SPEAKER_02 8:08

And that's a problem too. Like, if if you want to just do life with your best friend, just do life with your best friend. Like, don't call it a romantic relationship and then deny the parts of you that actually need nourishment, or those parts go into the shadows, and we try and get those needs met in more shadowy ways versus you know, the vulnerability that it takes to have, you know, your sexual needs accounted for and your heart and your mind and your soul all tied up in one person. And I think that takes time to build the capacity to be able to hold that level of partnership and to be able to design it in a way that is really honest and true to the two people in it. Um and that requires you to just have life experience to know yourself and to be able to you know have hard conversations, but also be playful and like know how to transform and alchemize the energy so that you don't get stuck in these ruts. And I just I don't think I could have done that in my 20s. And with my level of self-awareness and everything kind of builds on one another. So like I I'm not a huge fan of like you have to be in, you know, the one relationship for your entire life, like be in as many relationships as you need to be in. Like all of us have a different path, and some people will be with some one person for decades, other people will have lots of relationships, you might be somewhere in the middle. Like, what if it was all okay?

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

And the point is to like figure out how your mode of relationship works, and you only do that by experimenting. You gotta fuck around and find out.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Right. Yeah, one thing I've noticed in my own life is that like the more like uncovering I do within myself, the deeper I go within myself, like the more honest I am about my own life, problems, background triumphs, you know, um like positive traits, what have you. I like the pool that I'm looking at is smaller. And so I I reflect on when I meet someone, and it's pretty rare these days when I meet someone that like I'm attracted to physically. You brought that up, very important, right? But then I'm also very compatible with like spiritually, intellectually, emotionally. They're a good, kind person that believes in service of others. They are probably spiritual in some way, right? Like there is like when I meet a woman like that who I'm physically attracted to, that's pretty rare for me because of honestly what I'm looking for. But I've met I've met women like this. It's just rare. Uh many times these women are either in relationships or they don't want kids or they have kids already, right? Which don't work for my uh what I want. And I feel like I don't even know if I necessarily believe in the sentiment of the one I'm like, I think like you could be in a relationship with many people. I know there's multiple people out there that I could love deeply, right? Some of them I haven't met yet. But I do think that like timing is such a huge thing. And I feel like I've gotten like I've just been able to hold more grace for timing as I've aged because when I was younger, I was much more impatient. I was like, this is the per I want this now, right? This is amazing. Like this is this is it, right? And now it's like, look, if this is the person, and as long as you keep some energy there, it'll happen. If it's not, it won't. You have to put in energy. I don't believe it's a person's gonna fall to the sky, right? I think that's a that's a some like we get stuck there. We're like, oh, I'll just do my life. And I'm like, no, I'm putting the energy, but there's a certain amount of like overextending that goes on that we're like trying to kind of like force or will our way into connection or compatibility versus like let it happen naturally. It I it always reminds me of this letter that Gian Steinbeck wrote to his son in the 1960s about love, and he talks about like nothing good is rushed and that you should cherish it, you know. And he talks about the two different types of love, the first one being very controlling and what I can get from it, and the second one being expansive and freeing for both people in the party, right? Um, and I I don't know if it's necessarily an age thing because I've met people very surprisingly in their early and mid-20s that I'm like incredibly deep. I thought like I was quite deep when I was that age two, and I meet people in their 40s and 50s that are not, they're still living their trauma, right? Like going from person to person. So I don't know if it's I used to think it was like age related, but I do think you're right, is experience related. And some people just have more life experience at a younger age. They've been through stuff or they've sought out deeper conversations, you know? And I think I'm curious on your take on like, you know, dating now. I feel like all and I and I've I've fallen victim to this too, is like we all a lot of people complain. It's like, you know, everyone's shallow, there's a lot of selfishness out there, there's a lot of narcissism and whatnot. And people are like criticizing the apps, which is fine, criticizing social media. Like, how how do we believe in the capacity to like connect with others in a world that seems like very distraught on being authentic?

Dating In A Noisy World

SPEAKER_02 13:09

I mean, I personally I have to disengage from a lot of the mainstream bullshit because if I'm plugged into that, it does actually shape my worldview. And if my perception is being shaped by there's no good people out there, everyone's trash, everything is a mess. Well, then that's the energetic that I'm going out into my life with. And of course, I'm going to like call in and experience life through that lens, which is going to confirm that bias and create more data for that story. And so for me, it has largely been about kind of unplugging from a conventional track and plugging into a more unconventional track, which is I make my own rules. Like I decide what kind of paradigm I live in. And if I believe that there are a lot of good people out there who would be compatible for me and they're easy to meet, and they come into my life in really serendipitous ways in the right time. They that's what ends up happening. And there's a lot of noise on social media. There's a lot of chaos, there's a lot of hysteria, there's just a lot of like energetic static that's happening in the overall field. And so I think it comes down to like really dialing in your own sovereignty and getting again right in right relationship with your own heart. Like, what is it that I want to give my life force energy to? Do I want to give my life force energy to this narrative that actually drains me and doesn't leave me inspired? Or do I want to give my energy to something that is really nourishing and replenishing? And the idea that there are and and it is true, like the dating pool does get smaller. And I don't think that that's a bad thing. Like, I don't want to have to sort through hundreds of people to see, like, oh, are you a vibe to like experience this relationship with? Like, I don't want to do that. Like, am I down to like kind of vet a couple people at a time? Sure. Absolutely. And so it has a lot to do with me changing the infrastructure of my life. So my life is not, you know, how the masses kind of live their life. I go on social media, I use it for work, I post, I kind of take a scan of what's going on. I'm like, oh, okay, that'll make some good content. Let me like write that idea down. And then I go and fucking touch grass.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Like I I go out and I actually make eye contact with people.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

I say hello. I make conversation because I understand that we live in a pretty magical universe if that's the track that you want to put yourself on. And I've met some of the most extraordinary people just by going out and being open. And I meet, like, let's say I meet someone at a grocery store, and then I build a friendship with them, and then they introduce me to someone. So you never know how these things are being orchestrated behind the scenes for you. But you do have to be an active participant in life. You have to go out and de-armor your heart and go out into the world and extend the love that you want to receive.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

And when you go and you live in service to love and you live in service to connection, that's going to open way more doors than you know, stewing on social media and flipping through the apps ever will.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yep. Let's let's talk about my two cents on it. No, I love the perspective. So I have two questions from that. The first, I'll start with this one. The first one is do you believe in fate, like as a construct?

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yes and no.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Okay. Explain to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Like I think that there are people that we are absolutely designed to meet, and like on a soul level, like we all have these little contracts with each other, and we're like, okay, on October 3rd, I'm going to be on this street, and you're going to be on this street, and we're going to collide. And from that point of collision, though, like I think fate is about the collision. It's about the meeting. But what happens like in terms of the destiny of that connection is largely up to the two people and their willingness to actually action on it.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yes. Okay. So it's like a combination. I hear what you're saying, right? Yes, you have that will once it happens. But when it happens, it's like that's like the magical realism that we don't realize. But it's like, what do you do with it then, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Right. You have to create it. It's not just like, oh, I met my soulmate and I ran into him and then everything was amazing. It's like you will collide with the people that you are meant to collide with. And then what you do with it is up to you and is up to them and their free will. Like you can't force someone to be in a relationship that they don't want to be in or that they're not ready for. And sometimes those faded meetings are just as important. In fact, I'd argue that they are almost more important because they prepare you. They show you what's in the way of you being able to be really available to the free flow of love.

Fate, Free Will, And Collisions

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Okay. That's a great answer. So the follow-up question of that is for people that are in a relationship, you know, you mentioned connection, you mentioned being open to that. I completely agree. I think a lot of folks end up losing that openness when they become in a committed, monogamous relationship because there's a lot of pressure and there might be a lot of boundaries set for better or for worse around opening up, particularly to someone of the opposite sex or of the sex you're attracted to, right? And I I as I've gotten older, I I've realized very sharply that like when I was younger in my early 20s, I thought love and relationship was about mine, yours, us, right? Like this is my thing, right? This is mine. Like we we are each other's. And now I realize that love supersedes any sort of ownership construct we have, and it's freeing, right? And so like I would want my partner to be close with people that care about her, that see her, right? Um is it how like I think a lot of people in relationships struggle on like jealousy, on remaining open, because I put it this way like, if you're getting close to someone that you're attracted to, you're in a relationship, you have great conversations with them, that can blur lines, right? That can like there can be boundaries that are broken. But on the other side of that, like I have seen people like meet someone that is like far more compatible for them, just out of the stroke of, again, like magical fate, kind of they just run into this person, and it's just like, oh my God, I feel something with this person that I've never felt with anyone before or not in a long time. And it sort of reopens their heart. And I know I can hold space for both things. I know sometimes that's like a trauma bond, or we're just trying to run from responsibilities in a relationship, but also we can be in a healthy relationship and meet someone that we're just like, holy crap, this is like I, you know, I can see a lot of things with this person. How, like, in your best way to give advice, you know, it's a it's a hard thing to advise on. Like, how would you like in instruct people on how to behave in those situations when they're in a relationship and they feel like they're becoming close or they have some sort of like connection, you know, with with somebody else?

SPEAKER_02 20:57

Yeah, I mean, the first thing that I always come down to with that, because I I have a lot of guy friends, I have a lot of girlfriends, I am attracted to men and I'm attracted to women. So, like to me, like anyone could potentially be a new possible mate, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Right.

Openness, Jealousy, And Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 21:18

But the thing is, like, if you're in a relationship and you're developing relationships with other people, I don't think that there's a problem with that. What I find tends to be the overarching issue is any secrecy around that, any like hidden energy. So if you're hiding something, that's when it becomes problematic. Because the hiding there's something in there that like probably an old wound that's getting kind of triggered. And also you might have this intuitive sense that, oh, maybe this person is better suited for me. And if I admit that, if I expose this to the light with My partner, like because I know that there's something more to this connection, my partner's gonna sniff that out too. And then we're gonna have to have a much harder conversation because I don't know if I'm fully ready to like either leave this relationship because you know it might be a very safe, you know, steady relationship, but it might lack a lot of you know passion or aliveness, but it's steady. And then we have to look at like what part of us is choosing relationship. Because if the part of you that like needed safety and security, which is arguably a wound, chose a partner and you have that very safe and steady relationship, there's a part of you that is malnourished that's looking for the aliveness and it's never gonna stop looking for the aliveness. And so it's inevitable in a relationship like that that one or both people are going to cross paths with people who activate that aliveness. And it really comes down to like, can we be so soberingly honest? Like the emotional sobriety it takes to be able to come and say, like, listen, we chose each other from a place of safety. And that doesn't negate or invalidate our relationship. But the truth is there is this core nutrient that is missing that as hard as we have tried, we cannot activate because it is not there between the two of us. So either we have an open relationship here and we get that nutrient met with other people while still maintaining our relationship, or we complete this iteration of our relationship. Maybe we transition into friendship because that's probably more so what we are, and we go on a path that is much more vulnerable, much more scary, but we're more prepared for it now because we've had this like the stabilization of our relationship. And we now go in search of the full kind of experience of aliveness and safety. And this is why I think we have to have multiple relationships to figure this shit out.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Agreed. Absolutely agreed. I think it's, you know, we come from a traditionalist society where like you meet someone when you're really young. Now people are waiting a lot longer to have kids. I mean, one economically, but also our our relational part of how we human is evolving. We're always evolving, right? Our relationship requirements are way different than they were in the 60s and 70s. I think there's beautiful things from back there that we can learn from and learn from our past. And there's stuff that was very oppressive and archaic, you know? Um, I appreciate you saying that like we need to have multiple relationships because I I agree. And the opposite is true, right? You can be a relationship addict where you're always in a relationship because you never want to be alone, right? But then you can also be the opposite of that, where you hide from relationships. Or what I found sort of the bucket I fit in is because of like my my Christian Catholic upbringing, and I'm a very monogamous person. Like I know that about myself, that I would get in a relationship and I would start to romanticize the relationship so much. Not that it wasn't good, not that it wasn't a good person, but I always felt that there was something missing. And that something missing was like this deep, just soul opening connection where the other person sees me for who I am. They don't just see me as an athlete or a musician or someone who grew up in this family, whatever. They see everything about me, right? They have they have this like acute awareness of me, my energy, who I am, my my like essence. And I've experienced that with women. It's very uncommon. But when I meet someone like that, I'm like, holy shit, this is someone I could actually settle down with because I need that above everything else. Like I need the sexual attraction, I need all, but like that thing, it's it's such a big gift to like witness yourself being given when someone can just sit there and I'm like, this this woman like knows that she knows what I'm feeling. She knows what I'm like, I'm gonna communicate it no matter what. But like there's this connection, and I think a lot of people end up making excuses in good okay relationships because they'll be like, oh, this is this is okay, it's good enough. But then they'll meet someone that might be more compatible to them, and it just kind of shakes them up a little bit, and they can they you a lot of times they'll like retract, they'll close down because they're like, okay, I'm doing something wrong, right? I'm starting to have feelings for someone, so I gotta shut that down and I need to put boundaries up because boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, right? You know, we talk about it, and then I'm gonna focus on my relationship. And I and I wonder, you know, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this, but I wonder if we like inherently do that because we we just so badly want to like to admit to ourselves and our surroundings and maybe our religion and our societal constructs that we like got it right, that it's like happily ever after from the bat, you know. And sometimes you just meet someone who's who's it, you know. And I think now that I've again I'm in my I'm 36, so mid 30s, like I feel like now I'm so much less of a controller in love and more of like at any point in time, someone can choose to leave, someone can choose to not be with you, right? The beauty of actually some soul-opening connection with someone is that you you feel free, you trust them. It's like they can do anything they want. Like we show up for each other every day. And there's only a few women I've met that I I like fully feel I can do that with. The interesting thing is most of these women are taken. So they're just close friends or they're you know acquaintances or whatever, because I usually set boundaries on myself because I love love. Like I I never want to be the reason someone chooses to leave the relationship. That's their decision, right? And I would never want to start a relationship um, you know, with someone that that like you know there was conflict created because you know, they they need to decide between people. And I would I'm I want to ask you like for people that are because I because I have my perspective on this from the relationships I learned from. And for folks that are like, you know, in relationships, and let's say they feel like it's good, but there's a feeling, and you you know this feeling too. I know you do, because we've spoken about this. There's a feeling somewhere inside them that that just there's something missing, right? There's something missing. How do we tell whether that's us BSing ourselves because we're looking for problems, or whether that is reality, and that there is actually someone or a set of people that might be way more compatible, we might be much more happy, we might be much more free, and we can have much brighter future with like how do we tell those between those two things?

Radical Honesty When Something’s Missing

SPEAKER_02 28:32

I mean I think there it there's a couple kind of avenues we go with it, is we have to first identify like what do we think is missing? Like what is the thing? Like, because most people will say like there's something missing, but when you ask them what is missing, they don't know how to articulate it. So that would be the first step is because that forces introspection that forces you to go down and into your own system to figure out what is it that's missing, and you have to get radically honest with yourself. And you know, we also have to do some shadow work here, you know, is just good everyday maintenance of our system. You know, you you gotta know like what what your your game is, like what's the game that I like to play to avoid opening. So all of us have a different game to avoid opening because opening at some point was a very vulnerable experience that got you hurt. So you have to know how you armor up your own heart and like all of the strategies that you play in that domain. And if you have that information, plus you've gone in to figure out, okay, well, what is actually missing? And you know both those things, and then you take it to your partner and you have the radically honest conversation of like this thing is missing for me. Is it missing for you? I imagine it is, because if it's missing for one person, it's usually missing for the other person. And what do we want to do about it? Like it's a it's a higher level game, it's a higher level conversation that you have to have because I'm always a big fan of like go like kind of exhaust all of your options in your current relationship. Like make sure that you've done everything you could possibly do to see if that is a workable dynamic and you can cultivate or like activate certain energies together. If you've done everything that you can do, there is no shame in leaving.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

And in fact, it's probably in your best and highest good to leave. And because if the relationship can't actually it hold that infrastructure of expansion, and a lot of relationships won't be able to. Oh, I love that your dog's barking. Oh, yeah, they always they always want to get it on the podcast, dude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

I've just given up on saying anything, they just do what they want.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

But they they always know the dogs always know, like when we hit something that's true, that's when they make noise.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

They're tapped in, they're tapped in. And so the most relationships do not have the actual infrastructure to hold these higher level conversations because these younger wounded parts that we haven't integrated get hit and threatened. And then all of our protective mechanisms come up, and then we either control or we evade or we hide or we retract and withdraw. Like there's a lot of strategies that will happen when a real conversation is brought, because on some level, you know, if we don't deal with this, we're signing the death warrant to our relationship. So it forces both people to level up when you can approach that conversation from a place of deep self-awareness of like, I know these are my strategies, and I know this is how I like to wiggle out of relationships or wiggle out of vulnerability or wiggle out of being seen. Am I doing that? Like, is there is there something in our relationship that's happened that has felt vulnerable to me that I would be essentially closing? This is the strange thing. It's like if there's something vulnerable that happens in your relationship and you close, and then it seems like you're opening to another person and another possibility when really that opening is you running from actually being open. Because the in a relationship, there's a level of depth, there's a level of vulnerability that's been cultivated. And so you might just be getting taken down into deeper territory that your system is like, this is too scary. This reminds me of when I was five years old. You know, and so instead of like actually going into that and opening it, it's easier to like pop out of yourself and out of the relationship and fixate on someone who is like bright and shiny and you can project your fantasy of perfection onto. And so again, it requires so much self-honesty. And so I think that's really the only way to determine one from the other is your levels of self-honesty and like can you tell the truth on yourself? Because if there isn't anything that's happened in your relationship that has kind of hit that spot of vulnerability, chances are you kind of being pulled towards someone else is just the higher intelligence of your soul being like, okay, you've you've played out this like safe little relationship long enough. You are meant meant for something more. It's time to go do that. And if you don't do it now, I'm gonna create hell in your life and in your relationship, and I'm gonna force it to happen.

Soul Contracts And Many True Loves

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yep. Yep, I agree with that. It's interesting, dude. I I don't know, um I don't know your your sort of belief structure around like astrology and terror and all like the new metaphysical stuff. I'm not super into that. I think there's a lot of self-like aligning prophecies, and we put ourselves in boxes. However, I'm open to everything, right? Like I still feel like I'm very spiritual. Um and I had this run-in. I don't think I've ever even spoken about this on the show. I was 23 years old, and it was obviously down in Sedona, a very well-known place where this shit happens, you know. And I was with my the first girl I ever really fell in love with. We were living together at the time. She was in grad school. I was embarking on being a pro athlete, and we had the two little puppies. So Sol, my oldest dog, she was like six months in all tie, who's her brother, who my ex-partner now has. We were walking down this trail in Sedona, and the dogs are two Australian shepherds, so they really stayed stayed close to us, right? And they like took off. They took off running down the trail, and we're like, all right, where are these dogs going? So we're like running after them. And there's this lady with another woman coming down, and then she like the dogs start jumping on her and licking her, like they know her. And I was like, This is interesting. Like, does this this lady like work at the shelter or something? You know, it's like weird, weird that they could recognize her, and they didn't do this with any other people we'd walk by. Um, and the lady comes up to me and she's like, I have I need to talk to you. And I was like, Oh boy. I was like, This late, this lady's gonna blow some smoke up my ass and leave me with a couple crystals, you know? I was like, let's hear what she's got to give me. Um, and and you know, my partner at the time, very logical, analytical, uh like she is gorgeous, 5'10, beautiful blonde-haired, blue-eyed Russian woman. When we would walk around, like she would draw attention. This woman, like, was just literally focused on me. It was a very weird experience because she was like, I have to talk to you. And I was like, All right, lady, I'm all ears. Like, what do you got for me? You know, and I was 23, so I thought I knew a lot and I didn't know anything. Um, and she's like, I'm gonna paraphrase this because uh this happened obviously a long time ago. I'm 36 now, so it's like 13 years. But she was basically like, you know, I felt you guys come down the trail, and she's like, I have a message for you. She's like, I'm here for a psychic conference. She's like, Um, I don't need anything from you, I just I want to tell you this. She's like, you know, you uh she I don't know how she started it, but she said something to the effect where she's like, everyone you come in contact with, their life, their life improves almost immediately if you care about them, right? Like you give so much to people and you give all this. She's like, the dangerous thing is like you need to figure out like who can meet you in that space of giving. She's like, the people that are gonna hurt you the most are particularly the women you invest in. And she's like, if you don't learn the lesson of who to invest in in a relational way, you're you're gonna experience this pain. That's a very general thing that can apply to most people. So I didn't really, I was like, okay, like that's that's like pretty general, right? But then but then she went a step further. She's like, she's like, she's like, you're meant to do something specific here. She's like, I don't know what it is. She's like, I can feel what it's in relation to, but she's like, You're you're gonna do all these things and you're gonna want to be this and that. And she's like, until you follow like what your soul's meant to do, you're gonna experience a lot of pain, you know. She's like, the earth will force you to go into this profession or this sort of identity, and it has to be in service of others and healing people in some way, you know. And then she talked about like partnership. She was like, the woman that you're designed to be with is going to be someone that like shatters your sort of reality on what you thought could be possible in a relationship. And she's like, you'll know when you meet this person because you will like feel inside that like you like you you mold, you mold together. Like this person is like, it's like you could laugh in a field of flowers and then talk about the deepest thing at uh in life at the same time, you know, and just that sort of safety and security of I don't know, just like being I don't even know what the word is to describe it. And my partner at the time, you know, we're 23, so we're very young, and she's sitting there, and the lady like continues to speak to me, and I forgot half of the shit she said, honestly. She gave me her card, I ended up losing it, but I've always wanted to like reach out to her and be like, that was a really weird conversation that I still think about. Yeah, you know. My partner was like, you don't believe in that shit, right? And I was like, I don't, I don't think so. Like, I don't know, you know, that was fucking weird. Um, but it stuck with me ever since then. And the funny thing is, there's but bits of that conversation that really hold true. Like I was in these relationships in the past that I'm very grateful for. Like, I grew from them, I made mistakes, I learned from them. They got me into honestly ushered me into therapy at a very young age because I wanted to get better. I wanted to understand my own trauma, how I was showing up, not showing up, the shit I was bringing. And now I'm like, man, I know literally when I sit down with someone after talking to them for maybe an hour or so, like I know if it that's it, I can feel it. And it's not that it's just in one person. I think multiple people could be that. It's very, like we said, it's very rare for me in particular. And when I'm around that, I'm just like, wow. Like when I feel it, whether it's accessible or not, whether the person's single or not, I'm like, it's just it's just a beautiful feeling to be like, yeah, this does exist, right? Like I can be melancholy and lonely and be like, oh, I'm never gonna meet someone. I really want to have children, I want to have a family. This and you know, uh I like like feeling that just sort of like reinvigorates, like, I don't know, it almost feels like you're being watered in a way, you know, like you're being watered and like you you you're opening again, like you're blossoming again. Because for a lot of us, I think we can be so closed even though we're trying to experience love because we don't feel seen. Yeah. And then when you feel fully seen, it's just like fuck, dude, like this is for real. Like this is actually a reality that can exist. And I think I made a lot of excuses when I was younger, not that I wasn't deep, not that I wasn't reading all the books, you know, all the things. I made a lot of excuses for like these partners were like good enough because we were compatible physically or intellectually, or we had the same goals or aspirations, you know. But there was always that like part missing of like sort of like the key to unlock someone's soul and vice versa. It wasn't for lack of sharing or opening, it was just like an inability to meet me there and and for the counterpart for me to meet with them where they were because we were just different in that way. And when I've met one women that are there, I'm just like, oh, it feels it feels like home to be on to be honest, right? And I think a lot of times I I romanticized because I'm very romantic, I like romanticize stories in my mind to make excuses for the things that were missing in those relationships inside myself and inside the other person. And now that I realize, I realize when I confront it in person now where it's like, oh, I'm whole here, they're whole there. And this actually could legitimately it just feels more effortless. You know, it feels like it's not like we wouldn't have problems, we wouldn't have fights. It just feels like it's it's it's hard to explain. I don't think words, I think music, this is where music really has some so much more power. Like I can describe it in music when I play something, but it's really hard to put into any language because it's like a feeling of like, wow, it it just feels like peaceful, it feels like grounded, it feels expansive, it feels close, and it feels validating in the way of my truths and not my trauma, right? Validating in the way of like just love being this all-encompassing, omnipresent experience that we can always tap into if we choose, right? It's always there, it's like fear, love here, you know. Um, and I just went on a big-winded tangent there. I'm like, I was I was just on this profound roll here.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

You were and I was like, okay, I'm I'm so invested in this transmission that's happening, and then all of a sudden, it's like no internet. So it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

We'll we'll I'll just I'll just cut it from there and we'll we'll start right here. Okay, but um, yeah, thanks for just making more work on my and Kelsey.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

You're welcome. Um so where we lost you was like where you were talking about music and like Yeah, so so I was just trying to describe the feeling of like when it fits, it fits, you know, and and I I gotta be honest, I think a lot of people aren't as connected with their heart intuitively as they think.

Clean Communication With Partners

SPEAKER_00 42:09

They think it's their it's interintuition, but it's really their fear. Like, I I have to say, one thing I've done a lot of work on is like like being in my body, like knowing what I'm feeling and why, and not making excuses, not making shit up. Like I know when I meet a woman who like is there, right? And I can't describe it in words because I don't think language does it justice. I think this is where music is so powerful for us, and why you got into music by it, because there's something like doesn't matter what language you speak, when someone's playing something on any sort of instrument or there's a togetherness, there's like unity, there's there's continuity in that. And I feel that when I'm around, again, very rare, a certain woman type of woman who's who meets me there. And it it feels like like there's no other word to describe it but harmony. It's melodic, you know? And it's not melodic in the way that I'm like over-romanticizing something or I'm just bullshitting myself. It's real, it's legitimate compatibility, um, which is funny because like I have a handful of friends that are super into uh like super into astrology and Chinese astrology, and they'll, you know, I'm a little, I'm a little like uh like I don't know, I would say weary of those things, but I'm open to hearing about it and we'll like it, we'll we'll joke around and like you know, compare compatible, and sure enough, that stuff like supports what I'm feeling. And I'm just like, this is weird, you know? And then with other people, it doesn't. It says the exact, you know, it's like no, you're so it's it's weird how like I can kind of gauge my intuition just using other resources, you know. Um, yeah, I don't know. It's it's very it's very interesting. It's like just life is so interesting, but honestly, like I feel like I'm more open than ever now at this age, and I and I couldn't have I I wish I would have been there in my 20s, you know, but I wasn't, you know, and I think. Some people can be. I don't think it's an age thing. Like, I've literally recently I've met some people in their 20s, and I'm like, wow, like, holy shit, dude, you are you are an incredibly deep, compassionate, empathetic human being. And probably just because you had a great childhood and were loved, you know, yeah, you were loved, you were loved, like, you know, I mean, exactly, you know. Um, like you have a great relationship with your siblings, you know, all those beautiful things. Uh, but for the for most people, it takes a while, and it also takes a reckoning of self, right? Like, like, where am I falling short in myself? Where am I not being honest with myself? Where am I making excuses for my behavior? Where am I you you letting fear control my words and my behaviors versus love? You know, I I think like anytime I've just leaned into love, and I know this sounds like woo, but it's really true. It's like when anytime I've leaned into love, I feel warmth. Anytime I've leaned into fear, I feel coldness. Yeah, you know? And sometimes you need to let let fear win a little bit because you you learn, it teaches you a lesson just like death, but you have to come back around to finding love for yourself and for other people. And I think in that construct of feeling love, it makes it much more palatable to meet someone and be like, no, this is it. Like I can feel it, you know. I might have something else, but like for me, I think of it this way. If I was in a relationship with somebody and honestly, they met someone that like they lit up with and they were to tell me that, like, yes, it would hurt, I would still grieve. But love, what love tells me is like, I want that person to be happy and I want to be happy, right? And so if they can't fully choose me and they're sure about this person, you if you love them, you have to let them go. You have to let them go, right? And if you love yourself, you have to allow yourself to hold space for that grief and know that there's probably someone that's honestly more compatible with you in that way, you know? And I think it's really hard for people to do that because we like clutch on to what we have so hard to like very, very tightly. And sometimes that can prevent us from being really honest about what might be missing within that.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

100%. You know, I I love that you just shared that because love is like this ever like expanding and evolving energetic. And if your partner could be better loved by someone else, then love actually does like say, Okay, I want you to go and have that. And it's our our pain, our wounds, like our constriction that would say, like, no, I need to keep this for myself because I don't actually believe that there's something better for me. And like playing with that energetic of like the closure of fear or like the coldness that you kind of talked about for me, it's a gripping. Like I don't experience it in temperature, I experience it in like a gripping closure sensation. And then love is a very open, relaxed energetic for me. So like it does parallel what you were saying because warmth is like a much more opening energetic, and cold, like you literally contract, you close, you grip, you brace. And so when you play with those different energetics, like sometimes you actually do have to have these multiple relationships where you play out these different themes with each other so that you can get acquainted and you know in your somatic body the difference between love and fear masquerading is love.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Because I think women are very like, like that is like the gift that a lot of women have. They tap into it is feeling that. I think it's it's harder for men, they have to be taught that, you know. Um, and I I feel that when I'm around a woman who's very safe in herself, like they they they sort of radiate that presence of being able to tell the difference between acting out of fear or love and they can hold space for it. I think that's a very like motherly, feminine, beautiful part of that energy, you know? And uh yeah, and I appreciate you speaking to it. Not that men can't tap into it, I think they can. It just takes a little, like a little bit more effort to get there, particularly because of how we're raised.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Yeah, you you've been more conditioned out of it than women have. But I will say, because I work primarily with women, like I think that there has been a bit of a shift with like just the way that women have been socialized in the last 20, 30 years to essentially abandon these more feminine aspects of themselves and like kind of operate like a man in the world. And so if a woman has gone on that track and has been conditioned in that energy, she actually does have a hard time deciphering like truth from fiction, love from fear. She has to relearn this too. And that is the majority of the women that I work with. That's so much of what we do is we just walk this path of taking off everything that isn't true so that you can reconnect to this internal infrastructure that just needs a rebooting. That's all that needs to happen, is it needs to be rebooted, but we can't reboot it until we take down all of the armor, or at least a lot of the armor that's causing the interference. And it's the same process for men and women energetically. How you go about that as a man might be different than how I might go about it as a woman, but we all have de-armoring to do that will help us like read those signals a little bit better because you nailed it so perfectly. And I've never heard someone else talk about it, so I I'm totally nerding out right now. But like the energetic of harmonics, and like when you find that resonance with someone, like you can have resonance with someone and it be wound resonance, yes, and then you can also have heart resonance, and you need to be able to tell the difference. And the difference for me is in the harmony of that relationship.

When Feelings Shift To Someone New

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Oh man, that's so beautiful. As two musicians, like there's a trauma bond, which is that sort of it can still be resonance. And I I think of it in the term of octaves, you know, like like if I'm playing a D and then I play two two steps above it, and that those things are like it almost feels like masculine and feminine energies combining when I'm playing the music, right? Because it's like the things are the same, they're vibrating at the same frequency. Yes, and it just it just amplifies it, right? Yes. Versus if you're playing something else, it it it still sounds fine, but it doesn't like it's not in unison. It doesn't, it's not, it's called harmony, right? So an octave is it's harmony with each other. And I think that like every even thing with music, it's just it's energetic, right? It's resonance, it's like you can feel that. And you're very right. Like people can lie to themselves and feel like, yo, this is it, and they'll make up all the excuses and romanticize the shit out of something, and they know it's not it. You know, they know that they they're not there yet, or the other person's not there yet, they're not being met in a certain level, but they're like, Oh, it's a good person, we love each other. You know, this is great, they're so hot, right? They have they they make a lot of money, or they have you know, we have the same goals, but then when you meet someone that is in harmony with you, sometimes it can scare the shit out of people, you know, because they're just like wow, like I can't, there's nothing about me that's hidden from this person, you know, whether I want to or not. And you can either step into that and say, Yes, I'm ready, or maybe you're not.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, you might have to. And that's okay. And if you run, you will learn.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

You will learn, you will learn exactly what you need.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Yeah, me too. And this is why I think that there are so many people that like going back to that fate thread, like that there are a lot of souls on this planet who you have contracts with to play out these lessons about love with, and you have people, and this is why I don't think there's only one true love. I think that there are multiple true loves that you can have, because we we will meet someone, let's say maybe in our 20s and we're not ready, and we meet them and they technically have the infrastructure to be our one true love. But we actually the contract that we have on a soul level is I'm not gonna be ready and I'm gonna run or I'm gonna blow this up. And in that experience of running or blowing it up, I'm going to learn a little bit more about myself and my capacity for love. And I'm gonna learn what's in the way of my capacity for love. And so you will have these different types of soulmates that come in throughout your life to prepare you. Like every relationship I've had has been a preparation for the next. Like if I look back at them, you know, in order, I'm like, oh yeah, that one prepared me for that one, and that one prepared me for that one. And like you only see it by looking back.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Like, and I don't know if the next person I meet is going to be a person that I am in a relationship with for the rest of my life, or if they are going to be another preparation. But either, either way, I'm learning and I'm growing and I'm expanding, and I'm actually creating the environment for more love to move through my system as me. And to me, that's never a waste of time. That's a very good use of my life here as someone who is a steward of love, who is here to literally be a vehicle for the expression of love. I will be initiated in these ways, and I will be initiated through relationship because that is the spot where I can see most clearly where like all my shit's gonna come up. And I like it's just no, it go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

No, I didn't mean to interrupt you. It just when you're saying this, I'm it's like so good. It's like honestly, food for the soul, really. I think one thing that I really came up when you're speaking is like if you're either in a relationship or not, it doesn't matter. If you feel if you're feeling like you're connecting with someone, lean into it, right? You can still have boundaries, but like don't shut down because you're scared that you might ruin what you have. Because if you're scared you might ruin what you have, it's not there to begin with, right? It's not enough to begin with. Because if you really connect with someone on a deep level and that, and if your relationship's meant to be that you're in, it's only going to expand the love in your relationship. It's only going to make it better, right? It's not going to take away from it. But I think one of the things that's scary for people is they'll be like, oh, I might be having feelings where I really enjoy hanging out with this person, and then they'll start to like pull away, you know, because of out of respect for relationship, which I can understand. But as long as you're you're up front, you have, hey, we clear boundaries in a relationship. Like, I think building love with someone else on a outside of a relational level can only help increase your love inside of your relationship. And if it doesn't do that, if it brings up questions or animosity, that might not be the relationship for you, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Well, that person's you it's clear you need something else. It's clear there's something kind of missing.

Closing Reflections & Where To Find Kelsey

SPEAKER_02 54:56

Right. And, you know, going back to what I said about like it you can't do that and also like keep it secret. Like that's kind of the the caveat there. Like, if there is, you know, love that is kind of coming in different forms or different people, like that's great. I agree. I think we should be leaning into that. And also keeping it hidden from your partner will you'll be the cause of the rupture. Yep. Because it's that secrecy that actually cuts off the flow of love. And you cut it not only like with your partner, but you're going to actually limit and cut it with the other person as well. Because if you're playing out a secrecy energetic over here, it will bleed into everything else you're doing. So eventually it will catch up in the relationship that you feel that flow of love with. And so, like, I think it's so vitally important. Like, if you do have that and you want to explore that, you bring it to your partner and you're honest. Like, hey, like I met this person, like they're really fucking cool. And I'm gonna lean into this connection, I'm gonna explore it. Like, and I want to inform you, I want to keep you in the loop. I'm not hiding anything from you. And like you are free to do the same. Like, and it's not necessarily about having other romantic relationships either, although like there are some dynamics that it's more of a romantic thing, and you've got to create that infrastructure in your relationship. And sometimes, like, they're just friendships, sometimes they're collaborators that come in, you know. I think of my, you know, creative collaborationship that I've been in for the last 10 years that I was telling you about before we got on here. Like him and I have been in a creative partnership for 10 years, and it has never been romantic, it has never been sexual. It has it's literally like he is a soul brother, like he feels like family, he feels like a sibling to me. And our relationship was very intimate emotionally because the nature of songwriting requires me to like fillet my heart and my soul and like be honest. And so, like, there are like things about each other that we know that I will always keep in the vault, and like he will keep in the vault, and and that can be really threatening to a romantic relationship that doesn't understand, like it has a very young kind of perspective on relationships where you can only have intimacy and one type of intimacy with your romantic partner, and you can't have intimacy with anybody else. And to me, like I think that that is a very, very young and immature perspective on relationships and love, and you really cap yourself. Um, but that's just my two cents on it. And I look at all of my friendships and I have intimate connections with all of them, but intimacy does not mean sexual. And even if it did, like I would be setting my relationships up in a way where I would be doing a romantic, like open connection, if that's the the chapter of my life that I was in. But if I want to be monogamous, then I create the agreements in my relationship and I honor those. Like I'm very loyal, I'm very respectful of the agreements that get made, but I need to actually make them consciously. And part of my relational agreements is that I will be having relationships with other people. I will be having friendships, I will be having collaboration connections. And if I'm choosing to be monogamous, then I'm not gonna have romantic or sexual relationships with other people. But again, like it's not a let me ask you this question.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Um, because I know we're we're coming short on time here. Like, for how how would you advise someone to communicate that with their partner? Because you were saying, like, you know, like be open and honest. Like, how do how should they approach that conversation? You know, if they want to engage in getting to know somebody else. And let's say they are monogamous, right? This doesn't this doesn't only apply to like polyamory or ethical non-monogamy. Like monogamous people can be like, I I want to get to know this person. What's the best way to communicate that to your partner?

SPEAKER_02 59:17

I think as cleanly and as to the point as you can. Like, I just met this person, I met them here, and this is how I feel about it. And I want to explore a friendship with them. I or like maybe it's a collaboration, like because you and I like work in, you know, an industry where there's a lot of collaborations that happen. So I'm constantly meeting people in our industry. And, you know, whether it's a man or a woman or whoever it is, like I would probably just pick up the phone or like have dinner with my partner and be like, hey, so I met this really cool person today and I want to tell you about it. Like I wouldn't make it like this big fucking deal of like we need to have a sit down and like there's a very serious thing because that'll trigger people's panic and fear and all their shit. But if you just weave it in of like, hey, I met someone really cool today and I want to tell you about it. And you you introduce them in that way, and then through that conversation, you reveal like, I think that this is someone that I want to get to know. And I'm thinking that I probably want to be friends with them, or maybe I want to write music with them, or maybe I want to do like a work collaboration with them. I'm not too sure, but I want to kind of see where that goes and I'll keep you in the loop.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Well, what happens if they develop feelings for that person? What happens if they're attracted to that person? Then that's a more complex thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

It's a more complex thing, and you have to be honest about that too. Like, and this is what I love about like really clean relationships is that you can reveal when you're attracted to someone else, and it doesn't destabilize the relationship because there's an agreement that we know that we're gonna be attracted to other people, like duh, we're humans, and we also are making a commitment to not act on that attraction, you know, and if we do want to act on that attraction, then we have a different conversation with each other, and we either renegotiate our relationship agreements or we complete our relational container, and that has to be set from the beginning that that's kind of the playbook that you're working with, so that it doesn't kind of hit someone and blindside them if it does happen. Like you got to talk about this shit at the beginning, which most people don't. They just get into a relationship and hope for the best. And then when life in its complexity comes, they're like, ah, I don't know how to deal with this.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

So like set it up at the start and say, like, we're gonna be adults about this, you're gonna be attracted to other people, I'm gonna be attracted to other people. I want a relationship where we can be fucking honest about that and have an agreement that even though we might have attraction to other people, there's different various degrees of attraction, uh, we're not gonna act on that in terms of pursuing it romantically or sexually. But if it's an intellectual attraction or an emotional attraction, and the emotional one can kind of bleed into sexual and relational territory. So you gotta, you know, at least have more openness around that. But the more openness you have, it kind of takes the charge out of it anyway. Like when you bring it to your partner and you're like, this is just what's so, and you're met, and they're like, Oh, okay. Yeah, like show me a picture. Like me, if my partner was like, Hey, I met someone and I'm attracted to her, I'd be like, show me a picture, I probably am too. Yeah, you know, and then we could have a little joke about it and be like, okay, cool. Like, what are the kind of boundaries you're gonna play with there? And like, how are you gonna navigate that so that you honor our relationship? Like, and as long as you're pouring primarily into your relationship, these other connections aren't a threat. They're only a threat when you are neglecting your core relationship. And that's when you're gonna see like a lot of flare-ups like with your partner, and they're gonna feel a lot of threat, is when intuitively they're sensing like we are not putting what needs to go into our relationship, into our relationship. You know, there's a neglect that's happening in our relationship, but probably also with our emotional needs, maybe our intellectual needs, our sexual needs, whatever it is. There's something, and so again, you just run diagnostics on your relationship. Right. Like, what's going on in our relationship? Let's take the inventory, let's make some adjustments so that we can keep the essentially like the vehicle of our relationship really, really healthy. And when you tend to that first, that's the first priority. Any other relationships that come in are not a threat because your primary relationship, you're taking care of that first. Yeah, but if you're not taking care of that, then you're gonna really create a lot of drama for yourself and a lot of chaos because you will be like searching for these other people because you don't actually want to do what's required in your relationship to keep it healthy and thriving.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

Agreed. What what do you think what's like the best approach? And this is my last question for for the interview, but what what do you think the best approach is if you end up legitimately developing feelings for somebody and you're just more compatible with them? You know, like how does that because that that can often be very hurtful because we don't want to hurt someone we love, right? And we put in a lot of effort, we have shown up, but we meet someone and they're like this person is just this is just feels different, you know, just this is it, right? Um how to like how does that work out? Because I feel like you know, we can talk about being open and being honest, but then if that happens, it sort of kind of feels like it ends up shooting us in the foot. We're like, oh, we there's a lot of free, and then all of a sudden my person is is in love with somebody else, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

But I think if you are operating at that level of integrity and openness and maturity, both people understand that that's always a possibility.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

It's always a possibility that you find someone that's more compatible for you, or they find someone who's more compatible for them. And we we take the initiation of rejection and we let it kind of upgrade us and heal us and move us in a new direction. But I think the the process is the same. Like you have to be point blank honest. You can't dress it up as something else and be like, oh, like we're just incompatible. Like, yes, and there's a bigger piece of truth that's being omitted, which is I have feelings for this person. It feels truer for me to align. There's a better harmonic there for me, meaning that there is a better harmonic somewhere for you. And listen, I I I know if you're in that, you're like, fuck you, Kelsey. Like, that's such bullshit. But I've lived through this. Like I was with someone for four years, and yes, we had good compatibility and like there was a lot of passion and like aliveness, and like, but there was always like these slight spots where we're like, we're not quite catching. And then he had multiple affairs in our relationship. So that was a bit of a problem, especially since we did have agreements around being open and transparent and like all that stuff. But when the relationship ended and he was already in another relationship, they of course that fucking blew out my ego. And like the rejection of that and the humiliation around it was so intense. But there was also this deeper knowing that they actually are a better harmonic for each than him and I ever were. And like I could be mad and I could be sad and I could be angry about it, and I was all of those things. But there was a deeper truth, a deeper knowing that they actually are a better harmonic for each other. And if if that is true for them, it means that there is someone who is a better harmonic for me. And my path is to just walk my path and my journey to experience what I need to experience so that I, you know, create the conditions to meet that person when I'm meant to meet them. And if I haven't met them yet, then I haven't, it's not meant to happen yet. And there's something that I need to experience or build or create or you know be inside of until that kind of prepares me for that person. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

Kelsey, beautiful way to end it. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. It's so good to see your lovely face. I want to catch up uh off air too, you know, let's schedule a phone call. But um, thank you so much for coming on the show and chatting with me again. And everybody, I'll I'll throw a link to uh Kelsey social media, all her business ventures in the description, and feel free to reach out, contact her, give her a follow. Um, yeah, thank you. It's so good to see you, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

So good to see you too. Thank you.