135. Barriers and Bias: The Status of Women in Leadership with Yoshiko Stowell

Note: Since the podcast was recorded, Yoshiko recently accepted a new job and is moving on from her position at AmyriAD.

💭 What does it mean to have female leaders from a perspective of diversity, equity and inclusion?

Yoshiko Stowell has about 18 years of diverse experience in Regulatory Affairs and a Chair of Women in Bio, an organization of professionals committed to promoting careers, leadership, and entrepreneurship of all women in the life sciences.

In this episode, Yoshiko shares her experience of the differences in culture as a Japanese woman when she moved to the US to study Chemical Engineering. This taught her the importance of hard work and resilience in a male-dominated field. She also emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance and authenticity in finding your own voice in leadership. 

🎧 Listen to this episode to learn how to champion the cause of increasing gender representation in your workplace. 

🌐 Socials:

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yoshiko-stowell/

Book Reference:

• The Disruption Mindset: Why Some Organizations Transform While Others Fail by Charlene Li

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:30

Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project with your host, Mick Spiers. We bring you thought provoking guests and topics every week to challenge your thinking about leadership. Our aim is to help you become the leader that you wish you always had, as we learn together, and lead together. Hey, it's Mick here breaking in with an exciting announcement. This episode is brought to you by our new business partner, The Lighthouse Group. We have joined forces with the lighthouse group to multiply the impact we're having on the world. The Lighthouse Group work with strategic business leaders who want to make change leaders who recognize that leadership is the key lever of organizational performance. The Lighthouse Group is the how to your why working with you to develop a leadership system that forges a high performance culture across the breadth and depth of your organization, from the CEO and executive leadership team through senior and middle management and all the way to aspiring leaders, those with high potential that will form the next generation of leaders in your business. The Lighthouse Group, accelerating transformation through leadership. Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Yoshiko Stowell. Yoshiko is the Vice President of Regulatory Affairs at an organization called AmyriAD, and AmyriAD, an interesting organization that has a all female leadership team in what is a biotech startup organization. And today, we're going to focus a little bit about what that means. What does it mean to have an all female leadership team? What does it mean from a perspective of diversity, equity and inclusion. Yoshiko is also very active in organizations, like Women In Bio, an organization that encourages more women to get into the biotech and these type of industries. And she's also active in an organization called RAPS, which is the regulatory affairs professionals, society, and in Toastmasters International, which also has a focus about encouraging women in the workplace, women in leadership roles. So I'm really excited about today's conversation, I've really no idea where this one's gonna go. It's going to be a great casual conversation, talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, and how we can continue to champion the cause to increase gender representation and to remove gender inequality in the workplace. So without any further ado, Yoshiko, please say hello to our audience. And I'd love to hear a bit more about your background. And what led you into the roles that you're in today. But also this passion about Women In Bio about RAPS about Toastmasters. So Yoshiko, go over to you tell us your backstory.

Yoshiko Stowell: 3:23

Thank you, Mick. Thank you for having me. Today. I was born and raised in Japan. After finishing my bachelor's degree in Chemistry, I decided to come to the United States for graduate school. I studied chemical engineering for a master's degree and then wanted to join a pharmaceutical industry. So I started my career in r&d, doing hands on lab work, then I transition my career from research to clinical studies, and then to my current profession, regulatory affairs.

Mick Spiers: 3:56

Alright, so really, really interesting background there. I'd like to unpack two parts of that. How long did you live in Japan before you move to the US?

Yoshiko Stowell: 4:06

21 years?

Mick Spiers: 4:07

Alright, so how would you reflect on the differences in culture between those two countries, and I would like to really go straight to the point about gender equality. So Japan and US, I'm going to say have very different cultures when it comes to gender equality. How did you make that transition? And what reflections can you share with our audience about the differences?

Yoshiko Stowell: 4:30

Yeah, the stereotype of Japanese, it's still the case that people are almost equal. You don't want to stand out in Japanese culture, even when you're good students, you want to be normal, you want the same thing as everybody else, you want to behave the same. So I felt like my opportunity was limited in Japan, especially in the male dominant culture. And when I was in university, I had an opportunity to talk with a professor in the US and decided I want to challenge myself to go outside of the country.

Mick Spiers: 5:06

So when you arrive in the US and you start seeing the difference you start seeing the US is far from perfect, by the way and there's pros and cons with both a very kind of equality driven organization versus the individual. I'm gonna say the collective culture of Japanese culture where people don't necessarily stand up as individuals versus a very entrepreneurial individual oriented culture in the US and a different approach to gender equality, how did you adapt to that? And what did you learn about yourself?

Yoshiko Stowell: 5:38

Yeah, what I like about the US is that the more you work, the more you get recognized and the opportunities comes to you. So I felt like the more effort I put in for myself would be the effort will pay off in the country of inclusive culture, like in the US.

Mick Spiers: 5:54

Alright, good. So I can see that for sure. Now, I want to unpack a different part of your introduction, which is going into chemical engineering. I think it's still the case today that women are generally underrepresented in that field in engineering in general, it's certainly true in technology fields, it's certainly true. How did it feel for you as a young aspiring woman going into the field of chemical engineering?

Yoshiko Stowell: 6:24

Yeah, definitely in chemistry, or chemical engineering, that a woman's ratio is probably less than 10%. But women tend to be the most hardworking, diligent students, and I was definitely a nerdy students in my school days. But I think I learned to stand up for myself, because you know, majority is man around me. But when you actually work hard, you can be recognized, but you have to kind of learn to survive in that kind of environment with myself being the minority.

Mick Spiers: 6:58

Yeah, interesting. Want to unpack that a little bit further. So you said hard working, And I certainly see that in most women that I work with in my industry, and in my field, which is also a heavy engineering and tech field, for sure. How do you feel like that was you naturally coming forward as being hard working? Or did you feel that you had to to make sure that you could stand out in a male dominated world that you had to try harder? Was it natural or was it tell me more?

Yoshiko Stowell: 7:28

I think there's a little bit of both. And I'm being a Japanese, I think that definitely in Japanese and generals are very hardworking. So I have that work ethic work hard, but also being a minority in my department and chemical engineering, I needed to work hard. And as an individual contributor in the junior members or students, I think you have to work hard to the best of your ability.

Mick Spiers: 7:53

And do you think that was to your benefit? Or do you think there was part of it that you, I'm going to say that you had to play a role, you had to adapt what I'm angling towards here Yoshiko, as we always talk about, we want people to show up as their authentic self, and for their own superpowers to be recognized to work in an environment where they flourish because of who they are and what they bring to the table. And what I'm hearing, there's a positive, though, it's kind of pushing you a little bit to work hard and get recognized. But I also have this negative thing in my head about well, that means that Yoshiko was not able to be yourself. Do you feel that? Or tell us what you feel there?

Yoshiko Stowell: 8:31

Yeah, actually, I think my personality is, you know, someone, I'm a perfectionist, so I want you to do my best at all times. But as I get older and gain more experience, I learned that it's okay not to be perfect.

Mick Spiers: 8:47

Yeah. Okay. All right. So good. So I can see that you're learning as you go. That's wonderful. And what I'm also picking up here, which allows my fear a little bit, which I'll come back to in a moment, is that yes, there was this expectation that you needed to like, you felt an expectation that you needed to go above and beyond, but it sounds like that was quite congruent with your own personality. Anyway, so it wasn't like poles apart from what you want it to do where I was coming from that, and I think I'm a little bit older than you Yoshiko. But this is not a thing about age, it's about generation, the generation I grew up was one where women were heavily underrepresented in leadership roles, even more so than today. And the women leaders that I remember when I was a young person in the workforce, most of them took on male traits, and it was almost out of necessity. I'll talk about world leaders here for a second. Margaret Thatcher is considered to be one of the most dominant female leaders in politics back in those days, but she was more masculine than most of the men that she worked with. She was called the Iron Lady right through to today where we do seem to have a much more recognition that no, women bring them when they bring themselves to the table. They're a better leader. They bring more diversity, they bring different thinking etc. And it's to embrace the differences between men and women that help us to develop a greater leadership team. So that's where I was going with that question is how much are you playing a role and doing what's expected of you versus being your natural self, any reflections on that from your experience?

Yoshiko Stowell: 10:26

Yeah, I think men to be more of individual player, they try to get on the top by winning and others, woman's tends to be more team player, we pull ourselves up, we help each other and we build a community to elevate our you know each other. So being a woman I definitely feel more empowered by people around me whether more senior person pulled me up to the next level, or I play a role the mentor to help a junior person.

Mick Spiers: 10:59

Really interesting. And just a note for the audience, you can probably see in our conversation already that Yoshiko and I already starting to use a bit of stereotypes and some a little bit of implicit bias, etc. And some generalizations and of course, generalizations can be dangerous, but they can also be useful when we unpack them. And this one that Yoshiko is bringing to the table is useful. Have a think about what she's saying that men tend to be individuals, women tend to be more team players and wanting to work with others, and have a think about the power of that. Alright, so every one of us is only given 24 hours every day, if you're an individual contributor, your ability to impact the world to impact the team to impact your customers is limited by your own capacity. When you're a team player and you're able to bring a team around you where everyone is contributing. Now we've got a force multiplication and a team all working in the same direction. Will our play an individual any day of the week? How does that sit with you that little reflection, Yoshiko?

Yoshiko Stowell: 12:00

Absolutely true. It's not limited to women, but in any company with diverse population?

Mick Spiers: 12:06

Yeah, brilliant. Okay, so that leads me to an interesting point. So you are in a all female leadership team is that going too far the other way where now we don't have a male voice at that table.

Yoshiko Stowell: 12:19

We used to have male employees on our company, we are startup or treatment of Alzheimer's disease. And we are at the transition stage. And it just happened that our performing teams happen to be women. So currently, women's are leading the company. But as we grow as a company, we're not meeting other male.

Mick Spiers: 12:42

Alright, this was not by design. But I guess it's a reflection that wonderful that women leaders came through and shone through merit based appointments. And you at this moment in time, you have an all female leadership team, it wasn't by design that you set out to only be female and to exclude men, it's just a moment in time. Okay, what do you think the advantages are?

Yoshiko Stowell: 13:02

Yes. So matter what I said before, I think women have this work well, in a team environment. So even in a small startup, we feel supported by each other.

Mick Spiers: 13:14

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's a good point. The other one, I'm thinking of here, I don't want to put the thoughts in your own mind. But I'd like to hear your reflection on this, we're going to talk in a moment about Women In Bio, Women in Tech Women in Engineering, etc. And one of the things they often miss role models, and when there is a role model that they can see that is 2-3-4, even 5 steps ahead in their career, and they can see ah, I can make it to the top table, it can be quite inspirational. And when that's not there, the glass ceiling if for one of a better word, I don't like that word, by the way. But that glass ceiling becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, because they look up in the organization ahead. And they see that, hey, there are no women at the head table. Why do I want to work harder for this organization, I'm not going to get there.

Yoshiko Stowell: 14:03

No, for me as an Asian woman, we even have bamboo ceiling on top of glass ceiling. And I learned that I found an organization called A to C, a player becoming si executive led by Asian female CEO and her philosophy is that there are women out there who became a board member or who became a C level executive and let them help others. And I like what house you say like the Rapunzel let down her hair that the women's in the leadership can help others and beat that ceiling. It's all about our mindset shift.

Mick Spiers: 14:42

That's another interesting one there. So there, Rapunzel, Let down your hair. I love that and help people to climb and to show them that there is a path, show them that there's a path to the top table. I like that a lot. I also feel like it's a big responsibility and obligation to you and the rest of the team and having read feel that like so when you women sitting at that table. Do you feel that responsibility? Do you feel that obligation to make sure that you are being the role models for the next generation of female leaders coming

Yoshiko Stowell: 15:12

Yeah, I'm a mother of three daughters through? myself, so I'm really big into trying to raise the next generation. So that's why I started volunteering for a Women in Bio.

Mick Spiers: 15:24

Yeah, okay, well, let's go to that. Now. Let's talk about Women In Bio, a lot of industries out there are still under represented today. So engineering is probably the most, but there might be others role probably road construction and things like that as well. So there's a lot of industries out there that have a heavy under representation of women today in the organization, Women In Bio in the organization, RAPS that you're involved in, and Toastmasters etc. What approaches are you taking to encourage women to take that step into these industries?

Yoshiko Stowell: 15:55

So I'll start with a Women in BIo. So women and bio is nonprofit organization, we have about 14,000 members in the United States, we have 14 local chapters, I'm one of the San Francisco chapter leaders and women and bio was developed from the students to the boardroom, from the academic to industry, we build this organization, because we felt that there is a need to help women get into the biofield. It's when your students like you may feel like there's no path forward. But there are so many examples out there. And we as leaders are responsible and for showing the next generation that there is a possibility.

Mick Spiers: 16:43

When do you think it starts? Right? So you went into chemical engineering, so that's at the university stage for you. But when do you think it starts like your mother of three daughters right now? At what point in a young woman's life? Does it start this thought, yeah, I'm gonna go into engineering or I'm gonna go into technology. Do you think that waiting until university stage is too late? Or is that okay? Any thoughts?

Yoshiko Stowell: 17:07

Anybody can make any changes at any point, but I used to take my daughter to a lab when she was so little. So she used to come to the lab put gloves on, lab coat on, and it was so natural for my daughter to see the science, you know, to the experiments I was running. And that's why all three of my daughter's wants to be scientists.

Mick Spiers: 17:30

Oh, that's cool. You must feel very proud to hear that, by the way, because you are the role model. You are the hero ansure. Yes. Interesting around STEM activities, right? So potentially, from a very early age, getting involved in science and technology, engineering and math, so that it's not, and we'll talk about societal expectations in a moment, but it's not a male thing. men or boys go and play with science experiments. For fun. No, it should be encouraged for everyone. Right?

Yoshiko Stowell: 18:01

Yeah, I play with my youngest daughter is 6 year old, we do a lot of science experiments at home just as easy as putting the Mentos in coke and see them bubble coming out. I think that kind of excitement is important for young girls.

Mick Spiers: 18:16

Yeah, now that's really cool. I'm gonna say even like, seems like Lego, like Lego was huge when I was young. But when I grew up, boys play with Lego, but now I do see much more gender equality and Lego, including the marketing of those products and the products themselves. They're marketed more generally, across boys and girls now, but that wasn't the case when I was growing up. Now let's talk about that societal expectation. So how much of the gender inequality that we have today do you think was driven by just societal expectations? Very interesting with you coming from Japan, by the way, because it's a different societal expectation there. But you know, the roles that we play in the world, you are a mother of three, and I'm sure that you feel at times, I don't want to put words in your mouth again. So I want you to reflect on this. I'm sure you feel expectations as both mother and vice president of Regulatory Affairs, right, it's like, how do you balance those? And how much of that do you think plays in the gender inequality that we

Yoshiko Stowell: 19:15

I think there is still a gender expectation. have today? For example, when I go to a male dominant meeting, I feel like women's are expected to prepare for the meeting room or prepare for coffee and things like that. I think that's still a silent expectation that women should do those things. I feel that I don't let that stereotype or image bring me down. I think I'm willing to do any task. I don't feel like I'm good to do something, you know, some easy job, I'm willing to do anything. And I think being authentic self at any moment is really important. You know, when I'm at school for my daughter, I'm just a mom. But when I'm at work, I have this vice president of negative affairs position, right? And people may look at me differently, depending on the situation. But I think it's very important to keep true to yourself.

Mick Spiers: 20:12

How does it feel when that happens? Like I feel strongly about this, that it should not be the case. Right? But being a man, I've never been in the experience that you've talked about. I've never been in a meeting where there's a feeling that ah Yoishiko, you're the woman In this painting, why haven't you organized coffee? I mean, the fact that that exists infuriates me as a bystander. But how does it feel when you're the subject of that?

Yoshiko Stowell: 20:35

Yeah, I try not to let that bother me being Asian, no activity petite female, I had people treat me in a rude way, even at the like fast food restaurant. When I first came to the US with a strong accent, people would treat me very poorly. But I stopped acting to someone who misbehave because if I let that fact bother me, then it only brought me down. Like, it doesn't help me be a better person. So if someone treat me poorly, then I would say, you know, maybe that somebody had a bad day that somebody else doesn't have a bandwidth to treat someone nicely. So that, you know, that is a reminder that I need to, you know, treat other people better.

Mick Spiers: 21:21

Yeah. Okay. So well done on your resilience on that or was a nice mindset that you have there. And the two reflections I would share to you is when someone does do that, well done on the perspective as well, they might have been having a bad day. But regardless that it speaks more about their character than it does of yours like so when someone does behave in a way that's out of line with I'm going to say modern expectations, right. The other question I want to ask that there, though, is about ally ship. Alright, so now picture that you and I are in the same meeting, and I'm on the side, and I see something like that. And it does infuriate me, I can tell you, when I see any kind of gender, race, age, any kind of discrimination or implicit bias becoming explicit, it really does infuriate me. But what advice do you have for an ally? What would serve you best at that moment? So in a moment where you're not treated as an equal, and you are, have this expectation thrust upon you? If I'm the bystander who looks at it, and is appalled? How can I serve you best at that moment?

Yoshiko Stowell: 22:24

If I'm put in a situation like that, like that, where emotion will kick in, I might take a ask for a quick pause, because I cannot perform at my best if I'm really furious inside. So I might ask for a quick break. But I spend some bathroom break or coffee break and just put myself together. And I feel that when I'm calm, and I treat the other person with the respect the other person naturally treat me better as well.

Mick Spiers: 22:54

I love the emotional intelligence of what you're talking about there. So you're regulating emotion and you staying calm. And you'll get a calm response and a more professional response. If you do that. That's really good advice. where I'm going with the question to go a bit deeper, is what is going to serve you best at that moment, right. So my natural tendency would be to speak up, right. And I think that's the right thing to do. But I want to test it. Because if you're in a situation where you are not being listened to, let's say the next thing we should say about women representation on boards, on leadership teams, etc, is getting a seat at the table is not enough, getting a seat at the table is not enough, we need to hear your voice. And I can tell you, I've sat on countless boardroom tables, where there's been a woman in the room that has come up with an amazing idea, the best idea in the meeting without any doubt, and it gets talked over. And then five minutes later, a crusty white male, which I know I fit in that category, but a crusty white male will bring up an almost identical idea. Maybe phrase it slightly different whatever the case may be. And everyone goes, Oh, yeah, well done what Jim said, and it drives me insane. Now where I'm getting with what would serve you best if I step in at that moment and go hang on a second Yasuko come up with that ID five minutes ago, did no one hear that? That's what I feel like doing. And I feel like that's the right thing. But the negative part of my brain is then people it reinforces our Yoshiko couldn't stand up for herself. Mick had to, how does that sit with you?

Yoshiko Stowell: 24:21

Yeah, this is a very common story. I think that creating an ally is a good thing like because in a room, whether it's boardroom or regular meeting, there will be someone who's outspoken, but that outspoken person may not be right all the time. So we need to have an ally or system that allow other voices to be heard. Like, for example, like if the meeting is facilitated by someone, like let other person talk that opportunity to pass that mole to someone else who might be quiet, but have the good ideas. And that's a responsibility of the leader to create that kind of culture. You talked about the psychological safety in your other podcasts as well that I think that psychological safe environment to have healthy conflict is really important.

Mick Spiers: 25:12

Yeah, what tips do you have or what have you done yourself or you've seen in rooms? What are the tips that you can provide to our audience about how to create that?

Yoshiko Stowell: 25:21

Be a good listener yourself because we have control over how we behave, so let you know, active listening is really important and be open minded because that other person who's outspoken might have some good ideas. And your idea might be related to that person's idea as well. So you know, be a good active listener and read the opportunity. And when the opportunity comes up for you to speak, then take that opportunity to speak. I think one of the tips that Toastmasters International has helped me is to be a better active listener. And also, to be better impromptu speaker. Basically, when you talk about, you know, 10 minutes, people may lose attention. But I think it's really important to be able to say something you want to say in a concise manner to not lose, you know, someone else's attention?

Mick Spiers: 26:19

Yeah, really good, Yoshiko. There's a few things I'm taking away there. The first one is coming back to diversity. The reason why we want diversity is to drive diversity of thought, diversity of thinking, diversity of ideas, and we're not listening to each other. We have a collection of ideas, but we're not building, we're not building anything. And come back to our point before about individual contributors and team members, the power of a team is their ability to create something that they couldn't have otherwise created if they weren't a team, right? So if we're not listening to each other, and if we're not dynamically listening to each other, and building on each other, right, so one of the greatest mistakes most people do is they think that listening is waiting for your turn to talk. And then you just say what you're going to say, but kind of generative listening would be for me to hear your idea and go, Oh, that's really interesting Yoshiko and what I think is if we do this as well, what do you think and then you build and then I build, and then if we have six or seven people around the table, all of a sudden, the ideation is just, you know, going off the scale. But we can't do that. If we're not really listening. How does that sit with you?

Yoshiko Stowell: 27:22

Yeah, because I think most people tend to think while hearing not listening, we need to pay 100% of the attention to the person talking. And don't think about what you know, sometimes we have a stereotype that the other person's wrong, and you're already thinking about how you, you're going to respond. But I think we need to be open minded, the other person might be right, at least 20% I read, read it in a book, you have to assume the other person is right at least 20%. That way, you're more paying attention, and that creates more engaging relationship.

Mick Spiers: 28:00

So there's a few things I'm taking away there, you're taking your point about Toastmasters and extemporaneous speaking, it's dynamic, and that's adaptive. And it is that ability to park for a moment what you believe to be true, so that you can allow someone else's ideas to flow into your head. And if you're not doing that, if you're only listening for the things that confirm what you already knew, you're not going to leave that table, any wiser. But if you're really listening with an open mind and open heart and open wheel and allow it to come Oh, yeah, she goes on to something interesting here. I've never heard of that before. I'm going to tap into that, as opposed to I'm going to say that many people just listen to things that confirm what they already believe. Before the meeting, haven't started. Any thoughts there?

Yoshiko Stowell: 28:46

There's no need to have a meeting.

Mick Spiers: 28:49

Exactly why we're here. Yeah. Okay. So any tips you've got for the audience, I'm going to take back to what you're saying about the responsibility of the leader, right? So we all have our individual responsibility that we can show up to a meeting with an open mind, we can actively and deeply listen, that we can build on each other's ideas, etc. So there's an individual accountability here. But you said something interesting before about the responsibility of the leader, or the facilitator that's running that meeting? What tips can you have for people out there that want to create this environment of generative co creation? What tips for the person facilitating or leading the meeting could you give?

Yoshiko Stowell: 29:27

if it's an internal meeting with people that you already know, in, in learning, everybody's speaking style and personality is important? I think being a leader is start with a self awareness and learn about different leadership style and adapt your leadership style to the situation and circumstance. And the next is to understand who the audience is, what their leadership style is, and then adjust your leadership style to foster that collaborative environment.

Mick Spiers: 30:00

So I liked that a lot. So it's a heavy element of adaptive leadership, but it started with self. So know yourself, and then know the team around you. And when you tune into that you can create the environment where everyone can find their voice. Yeah, really good, Yoshiko. All right. I want to kind of start drawing us towards the close, but I'd love to hear from you. Any final tips that you would give to either leaders out there that are wanting to create a diverse workplace with when Women representation much higher than it is today, or any young, aspiring women in the workplace that look at your role in a vice president role in an amazing company, what tips do you have for the next generation coming through?

Yoshiko Stowell: 30:40

I wish I learned that the leadership is empowering others. Think leadership is an action, not the title. Anybody can be a leader and leadership doesn't mean that you're the top powerful individual performer leadership is someone who can empower others, and bring the best idea to create that better outcome as a team. So I encourage the younger generation to look for mentors. Don't underestimate the importance of learning from others. No question is embarrassing. I think being in a community, find a community where you can learn from and take that opportunity to learn.

Mick Spiers: 31:25

Alright, that's wonderful, Yoshiko. It's been really great speaking to your day, and thank you for being a champion for this clause. I mean, you're working with three nonprofits to champion the cause of making sure that women voices come to the table. And I heard, so thank you for all the work that you do there. Thank you for your insights today around both leadership and also for the young women that are coming through and how we can continue to do better thank you for your tips around ally ship that was also really helpful as well. So I'd like to draw us to a close now with our rapid round. So these are the same questions that we ask all of our guests. What's the one thing you know, now, Yoshiko that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Yoshiko Stowell: 32:06

I wish I knew it's okay to be me. You know, when I was 20, I was constantly trying to learn and be better. And I thought like, Oh, I'm not good enough. I will be better if something and that's a bad, you know, thinking right? I think it's okay to be myself. It's okay to be you, as an audience. Just be authentic. And you know, just think that the learning is a lifelong journey. We have to constantly learn even when you become a leader.

Mick Spiers: 32:37

Alright, brilliantly Great two tips there. One about authenticity, and one about always learning and growing wonderful. What's your favorite book?

Yoshiko Stowell: 32:46

The recent book I read is called Disrupted Mindset by Charlene Lee. She was one of the speakers at the conference, I recently attended California conference for a woman and she talked about our current environment. She called it Parmer crisis, permanent crisis, constant changes. And she said that the comfort and growth don't coexist, we have to be outside of the comfort zone and just know it's okay. That her definition of confidence is that you know, knowing you will be okay, no matter what the outcome is. And that's the true leader.

Mick Spiers: 33:27

Yeah, I love that. Love that tip about confidence. And just a little hint, I'm quite certain, like, if I look at my lineup and schedule a future guests, she's coming on the show in the not too distant future. So yeah, wonderful. All right, and what's your favorite quote?

Yoshiko Stowell: 33:41

Every failure is a gift and opportunity. It's from Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine. I like his quote,

Mick Spiers: 33:50

yeah, she's very amazing as well, we need to get him on the show as well. I've looked into his work quite a lot. And Positive Intelligence is definitely something for people to look into as well. Finally, if people are interested to know more about you, either personally, or about Women In Bio or about RAPS, or the work all the different work that you do, how do people find you if they'd like to know more, Yashika?

Yoshiko Stowell: 34:14

Yeah, I think there's only one Yoshiko Stowell on LinkedIn. So it's very easy to find me on LinkedIn, it's probably the best place.

Mick Spiers: 34:23

Alright, wonderful. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show today. Really appreciate your time. Really appreciate your insights and the tips that you've given to our audience today. Thank you so much.

Yoshiko Stowell: 34:33

Thank you.

Mick Spiers: 34:38

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