137. Driving Growth on Purpose with Claire Chandler

💭 How do you align people's strategies with business outcomes?

Claire Chandler is a self-professed corporate survivor. She used this as a springboard for her entrepreneurial journey in helping leaders work together more effectively in less time, with less cultural resistance, so they can accelerate their business growth. 

In this episode, Claire shares how contrary to popular belief, leaders shape culture. This is the hallmark of authentic leadership that can attract and retain the right people who believe in the common goal. And to be an effective leader, you have to effectively lead yourself. She also shares about the concept of "growth in purpose", a nine-step framework that helps organizations clearly define what their purpose is. 

🎧 Download this episode to learn how growth on purpose can eliminate the various barriers to success in your teams.

🌐 Connect with Claire: 

• Website: https://clairechandler.net/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairechandlersphr/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chillinchandler/

Books Reference:

• Dare to Lead by Brene Brown
• In Cold Blood by Truman Capote

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:26

Hey everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project with your host, Mick Spiers. We bring you thought provoking guests and topics every week to challenge your thinking about leadership. Our aim is to help you become the leader that you wish you always had, as we learn together, and lead together. Hey, it's Mick here breaking in with an exciting announcement. This episode is brought to you by our new business partner, The Lighthouse Group, we have joined forces with The Lighthouse Group to multiply the impact we're having on the world. The Lighthouse Group work with strategic business leaders who want to make change leaders who recognize that leadership is the key lever of organizational performance. The Lighthouse Group is the how to your why working with you to develop a leadership system that forges a high performance culture, across the breadth and depth of your organization, from the CEO and executive leadership team, through senior and middle management, and all the way to aspiring leaders, those with high potential that will form the next generation of leaders in your business, The Lighthouse Group, accelerating transformation through leadership. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Claire Chandler. Claire Chandler is an executive leadership advisor. And she's the President and Founder of Talent Boost, Claire helps organizations to align cultures and HR strategies with their business to achieve their strategic outcomes. We're going to be talking quite a bit about that today, we're going to be talking about this concept called growth on purpose and thinking about how we align our people strategies towards our business strategies. And there's a lot of thought out there sometimes a dichotomy between performance versus a caring culture, etc. But we're going to unpack that and hopefully demonstrate to you that it doesn't have to be a dichotomy. It can be something that can have great alignment and can achieve you great success. So growth on purpose, focusing on people, but all aligned to strategic business outcomes. So without any further ado, Claire, I'd love it if you shared a little bit about your rich background, and what led you to be focused in the work that you do today.

Claire Chandler: 2:51

Thank you, Mick, it is such a pleasure to be here on your show. So I am a self professed corporate survivor. I spent the first couple of decades of my career in corporate America after by the way swearing I would never work in corporate America. I'm the product of a school teacher and a small business owner. And so corporate was not really on my bucket list, so to speak. But at last, when I finished school, that was where the opportunities lay. And I wouldn't trade the experience for the world. It was great. It was a great boot camp, if you will, for my entrepreneurial journey, which I really began in 2011. Because I learned a lot. I served under a wide variety of leaders, both great highly followable leaders and leaders I would never wish to emulate and I just had the great opportunity to sort of find my passion and find my why and hone my own craft so that when it was time for me to take that leap and start my own entrepreneurial journey over 10 years ago, I was able to do that with a bit of a sturdier Foundation. And so I left corporate in 2011, I quite honestly wandered the earth for about two years, I did not form my company talent boost until 2013. It really took me that long to narrow down into what my niche would be what I really wanted to focus on of all the things I could do and all the ways that I could bring in revenue and build a business, what did I really want to drive toward. And so I landed on or narrowed in on really helping leaders at all levels, but primarily the highest level leaders in large organizations to shape culture more intentionally, and in ways that actually drive greater success to that is really the focus and kind of the driving force of my business.

Mick Spiers: 4:43

Oh, there's lots to unpack there, Claire, I'm really excited about this discussion. This is going to be a lot of fun. So I want to unpack the first part first, let's go with corporate survivor, corporate survivor. That's a really interesting term there. And you said that you've served that was an interesting term as well, I have to say but served under several leaders good, bad and ugly. Tell us what you learn about yourself through that journey?

Claire Chandler: 5:06

You know, it's interesting because one of the things that I observed in corporate was that here was an opportunity to build a career and learn from a lot of different people come into my own as both a people leader as an individual contributor as a subject matter expert, and then ultimately going through to be HR discipline where I really found my passion. And what was interesting was, I didn't know what to expect when I first entered corporate. And what I quickly found was while most corporations advertise and sort of leave their employer brand with, we want people with an entrepreneurial spirit, we want people to come in with their unique talents and energies and ideas. And we'll figure out a way to combine the best of that. So you can bring your most authentic self to work, right, that's sort of the catchphrase now. But what I found was pretty quickly, the first time you try to embrace your own unique personality, a little bit too fully, and perhaps a little bit too loudly, most corporate structures are built around conformity. They're not really structured. And most organizations have not figured out how to channel the best, the most unique, the most innovative of what different people bring to a culture. And that's why it has been so hard, in my estimation, to integrate cultures, to retain the right talent to motivate people to be innovative, and to help their company win. And so for me kind of early on, well, actually, it took me a little while to realize that the best way for me to forge that kind of unique path was to find my own walk and stay true to that walk and pursue my own path. Because if I was waiting for the company to sort of show me how to bring my most unique self, my most dynamic personality into my role, they were still trying to figure out how to do that. And so I had to kind of find my own way. So yeah, that was kind of, I think, one of the biggest lessons I had,

Mick Spiers: 7:02

That's really cool, Claire, I want to unpack that a little bit further. So you say find your walk, walk your walk, right, and I want to take a step back then, because what you're saying is, I'm gonna say there's a bit of rhetoric out there, there's a bit of put some values up on a wall, but an incongruence, then with action. So there is, I think, an increasing awareness that we want to employ people for their superpowers and for the beautiful creatures that they are. And we have a lot of leaders talking about creating an environment where people can do their very best work and come in be your authentic self, like you said, etc. But then the culture, the processes, etc, the business kind of chew them up and spit them out, that's probably a bit too extreme, but doesn't fully e enable a world where people can bring the superpowers to the table and be their selves, right. So we've got one party's there's an intention where people are saying that they want to do that, but then somehow we get wrapped around bureaucracy, or whatever the case might be. And the culture doesn't allow the very words that are coming out of our mouth. What do you think needs to be challenged there?

Claire Chandler: 8:08

So I say there's a couple of things. You know, first of all, I firmly believe that leaders at the very top of an organization shape culture, I think the biggest myth in organizations is that culture bubbles up from the bottom, and that people just sort of organically create culture and contribute to culture. And I have found the opposite to be true. I think if your executive leaders do not model the behavior they want to see repeated, they're not going to build a very positive, inclusive, diverse culture, right. And so as I said, I've been around some executive leaders who are absolutely inspirational and people that I would follow to help pursue the mission that they have set forth. And there are other leaders that I would absolutely never emulate. And the distinction is the leaders that are followable are the ones who stand in their conviction, right? They believe passionately, in what we are all here together in this organization, or this company, or this culture to achieve and they don't go out and they don't try to sell their people on why that mission is important. They sue internally and deeply believe in that mission, in that purpose, in that why that you can't help but follow them. And I think that is the hallmark of more authentic leadership and have the start of cultures that actually can grow and can attract and retain the right people and can help people coalesce around a common goal.

Mick Spiers: 9:31

Yeah, that's really interesting. So okay, culture, starting with the leaders and around deciding the behaviors that you want. And starting with role modeling those behaviors, and I'll probably add to that, then it also depends on what they celebrate what they reward what they tolerate as well, but certainly starts with role modeling. And you word this, he says word followable. I love it. By the way. followable is a leader that someone has conviction has lives, breathes and eats the mission so much that it becomes almost infectious. And if you believe in that mission, to all of a sudden a leader that's out there, that's living, breathing and eating that mission will surround themselves with other people that believe in that mission. So that's really interesting. And you've also now use the word emulate a few times both positively and as something to avoid as well. Want to test something with you there Claire, which is I think one of the things that can happen here is a lot of people fall into their first leader Ship roll, right? So they get tapped on the shoulder, they've been wonderful at the craft, great, great software engineer, great nurse, great accountant, whatever it is. And they fall into a leadership role before they've ever really thought about what leadership is before they've had any training on what leadership is. And they fall into the trap of emulating the behavior of those before them. And that's how some of these cultures can perpetuate. Right. So I agree with what you said about it starts with the leadership, but then it can get a life of its own. And I can start perpetuating because people almost stumbled through emulating behaviors of leaders before them. And if you stop them and ask them and say, did you even like it when that former boss did that to you? Oh, never even thought of that. Right? So tell us about this emulation? And about the things that you've picked in your career where you've gone? Oh, yeah, that was really good. Versus OMG, I never want to do that to another human being. Tell us more about this emulation?

Claire Chandler: 11:22

Yeah. So I love that you keyed in on that word, because I think that is absolutely true. I think when you become a leader for the first time, you're absolutely right. No leader I have ever met myself included was ever handed a manual on how to be a leader in the most effective way, you might eventually get tapped on the shoulder to attend a management workshop. But there's no real owner's manual for being a good leader and effective leader. And so you're absolutely right, what people end up doing is looking around and saying, if they don't at least allow themselves some time for reflection to say, who are the most effective, influential followable leaders that I've ever seen in my life. And let me try to incorporate some of those traits into what I'm going to do, then what they end up doing is exactly what you described, which is they look around at the leaders who have been rewarded who have been advanced, who have been recognized within their own organizational sphere. And they say, if that's what it takes to advance to the corner office, that must be what I need to do. And so obviously, that sets first time leaders down the wrong path, but I'll go you one better. I have also seen executive leaders because again, I firmly believe that executive leaders especially have biggest impact on culture, and behaviors. And all of that I've seen executive leaders make that same mistake, you have this sort of stuff, I'm gonna say stereotypical, but when you think of a CEO who's very inspiring, very charismatic, you picture someone who has this natural presence, right, and they will go on a stage, they will speak at a town hall, they will talk to large groups of employees, or shareholders or you know, be a keynote speaker at a conference. And you watch them and you say, oh, my gosh, they're so charismatic, what a natural born speaker, etc. And what ends up happening. And unfortunately, I have seen this with disastrous consequences. Other executive leaders who on the outside are not as charismatic who don't find themselves to be as inspiring, say, I want to be like that. And so I'm going to copy what they do. And because inside that is not genuine to who they are, they actually don't have the confidence to pull it off. And so it falls flat. And I've seen this, I mean, it's, it's one thing to try to joke because someone else has this sort of natural, humorous style. And they can tell a joke with flair and all of that. And it's one thing to tell a joke that falls flat, it is an entirely other thing to try to emulate someone. And it's this cardboard facade, because you cannot keep that going. And so what I've seen happen is people get into trouble for telling a joke that is not appropriate at all, or they build up a reputation for not being authentic. And what does that then perpetuate one of the things that I have seen in cultures that are not positive, that do not reinforce the type of performance that you want to see is the lack of trust, the lack of trust among the workforce, even at the middle manager and senior leadership level, in the executives that are leading the company, if you don't have trust to build your culture around, it is ultimately going to erode from the inside out.

Mick Spiers: 14:28

Yeah, this is really interesting, Claire. So what I'm taking here is around this word emulation, again, it is an intentional act, first of all, but then it's also about making sure that you're bringing yourself to the table, and when you bring yourself to the table that allows others to be themselves at work as well. So a bit of the role modeling of the behaviors there. But if you're pretending to be someone that you're not, there's an incongruence there, and you said that you can't keep that up. First of all, I'm gonna say it probably creates inner turmoil because you yourself probably don't believe that you're that person either that little bit of impostor syndrome kicks in, etc. So it's, it's not great for the person. And it's not great for the organization when someone is going, Oh, I'm playing the role of inspirational speaker today. No, no, you bring yourself to this emulation and picking and choosing the attributes or traits of leaders before you is fine, but then you need to bring it to be congruent with who you truly are, and matching it to your own superpower. I was having a bit of self awareness about what you're good at and what you're not good at. And don't pretend to be Richard Branson if you're not Richard Branson?

Claire Chandler: 15:34

Well, and here's the trap that executive leaders sort of put themselves in, right, because one of the things that I firmly believe in is if you are going to be an effective leader of others, you have to start with being an effective leader of yourself. And if we, as you had mentioned before, if we tapped people on the shoulder, who were really solid, individual contributors, and put them into a position to lead others, we do them a disservice if we don't help them to understand how to lead themselves first. And one of the things that they have to do is exactly what you just mentioned, which is gain self awareness. And you've touched upon this a couple of times already, in the early part of this conversation, everyone, whether you're an individual contributor, and you will always be on that expert track, or you are an ascending leader at any level of an organization, you have to strive for deep self awareness of you know, what attributes come naturally to you? What are you naturally good at what motivates you what is your preferred style of showing up in the world so that you can be as true and genuine to that as possible, because that's what builds trust, you can also then do that deep reflecting of what drives me internally. So I can stand in my conviction and help other people generate excitement and enthusiasm around the shared mission, because I believe in it so passionately, maybe for different reasons than some other people on my team will. But I stand in that conviction rather than trying to convince other people to follow me because I'm just repeating the party line. But the trap that executive leaders set for themselves with this is they never have time you talk to anyone in a leadership role, especially the higher up they go. And you say, can I just look at your calendar for a second, there is not you couldn't slip up a business card in between the space is in all the meetings and time commitments they have. So when do they ever have time for that self reflection, when do they ever have time to pull back just a little bit and work on themselves and executive leaders in your audience may hear that and say, one, you should look at my calendar, there's not space for that. And to some of them may be sitting there and thinking that is so self indulgent, I owe it to my people to be as busy as possible and out in front of them. And, and I always kind of say in it, and a good coach taught me this long ago, you can't fill from an empty cup. It is as true of leaders, team leaders, parents, coaches, if you're drained, if you don't have time, if you have not done an internal work to understand truly what drives you and why you're on the path that you're on, and why you're in the role that you're in, you're doing a disservice to the people around you.

Mick Spiers: 18:03

So I'm loving this leading self element and around the self awareness and giving time to self development and your self reflection. I think that's one for all of us at all stages of your career, we always should be sharpening the sword every day, I love the part you can't feel from an empty cup, I'm going to just double down on that one and say that an investment in yourself is an investment in your team. Because if you are working in your leadership, it's creating a better environment for everyone. It's not self ish, it's selfless, it's selfless to do that work. Because not just you, everyone around you will benefit from that work that you do on your own self awareness and self development, it's really strong point, they're clear. And then to build the story, then you're going to have this kind of conviction that you're talking about that's come up multiple times in the interview, going to say congruence to self at that point, when you're self aware, you can then show up as being your true self. And you've used the word Trust many times and that's where really hits home with David Nour was on the show a couple of years ago. And one of the things he said is that most everyone has a really strong BS radar, right? So if you're that one that's standing on the stage, and you're not being yourself, trust goes right down, it goes right down because everyone's going like let's say it was me on stage and I was playing someone that's not me. And who is this? What's going on here? How can I trust a word that's coming out of this person's mouth there? I don't know, they're putting on a performance, right? And I'm talking about theatrical performance here. Trust goes down when you're not congruent to yourself. But it all starts with knowing who you are, being true to yourself. And then that's kind of build the trust. How does that sit with you?

Claire Chandler: 19:41

I could not agree with you more. I was having dinner a couple of months ago with one of my clients, a C level executive, and he was sharing with me that he needed to speak at a town hall a couple of months, hence, you know, and he said, I have to find time, he was sort of you know, we were commiserating over the, you know, the quagmire or the busy calendar. And he said, I have to find time to have to set aside time to put together my talking points for this town hall. And this is another trap executive set for themselves, right, the overly script themselves because again, they feel like they have to follow a more charismatic act. So they've got to have their message nailed. And not that that's not important, but we're sort of talking about that and you know, this was a town hall they were going to bring together a large group of employees and basically the entire organization would be participating, virtually a lot of people would be in the room, etc. And so we were sort of talking about that we got away from it about a couple minutes later, I went back and I said, Why are you in this company? What is it about this particular company that brings you back every day, and he actually got tears in his eyes. And he said, for about two minutes, he went on this kind of riff in he said, This is the first time in a very long time that I am in an organization where I know we are doing amazing things for the world. And he went on to describe it. I don't want to divulge details, because it'll give away the industry. But he talked for about two minutes. And he spoke from the heart. And it wasn't a put on, and it wasn't contrived. And it wasn't bullet points. And when he was done, I sat back and I said, you just wrote your talking points, if more leaders just took those 30 seconds to step back and remind themselves of why they have the honor to be in the position that they are in and speak from that place, versus what are the bullet points, I have to make sure I hit in the town hall so that they go out of here motivated to do good work. What motivates people to do their best work is to know that they're spending time with and around and for leaders who are fallible, who are authentic, who can be trusted, and you're leading them along the right path toward a vision that everybody can share in.

Mick Spiers: 21:42

Yeah, that's absolutely beautiful, Claire. And if I was sitting in that audience, I would be exactly that. It'd be going well, yeah, use the word conviction, again, word belief and the word authentic. You could also throw in the word vulnerable. And I know that you've done some work around this around people's fear about showing vulnerability where they feel like it's some kind of sign of weakness, but no, it just builds trust just builds trust. Tell me your thoughts on vulnerability. Everything you showed, that shows me vulnerability, but tell me your thoughts on vulnerability.

Claire Chandler: 22:13

Yeah, I'm struggling to think of another thing that scares executives more than the thought of being vulnerable. Brene Brown is so brilliant in this space, if your audience has not read, Dare to Lead or any of her other great work, I was working with another executive client a couple of years ago, who was struggling with bringing her team together, there had been an erosion of trust. And she said, Can you come in and can you facilitate a clearing of the air session, right, said I can, happy to do that. I'm going to send you a book first to read before we get in there. And I sent her a copy of Dare to Lead. And this is someone who from the outside is a bit crusty, is a bit unemotional about the way that she approaches her job and her team and all of that. And the strength of that is she's unflappable. When things hit the fan, she does not get rattled, she's very calm, she's very collected, she's very business minded, she's very rational. But when the trust is eroded on the team, that's not necessarily how you're going to resolve it is just to reason your way through it. And so she read the book, and I came, you know, got the team together. And we were about to start a workshop where we were not really a workshop, but a half day session of her team to kind of work through some of the obstacles they were going through relationship wise, you know, I had prepared as I always do, and I had a little bit of a framework, I was going to sort of take them through, create a safe space to, you know, do all these things etc. And she leaned in and she said, Claire, before you start, can I say a few words, of course, you can, you're the leader. And she took about three minutes to really get vulnerable with the team in own her part in eroding the trust in the team. And it wasn't, you know, entirely on her. But as the leader, she took accountability. And she did it in such a vulnerable way, which I can only credit Brene Brown for sort of inspiring in her and it set a much different tone for the people who had walked in not knowing what this was going to be about, not knowing if this session was going to be around, you know, let's assign accountability to everyone. She took the lead, she stepped into that vulnerability, she owned her part in how we had gotten to where we were, it opened up an amazing discussion that was inspiring, not because she had the solution from a rational frame of mind. But because she leaned into that vulnerability, and she demonstrated that for her team.

Mick Spiers: 24:31

I tell you, I'm picking up something interesting here around vulnerability that I hadn't thought about before. Part of it I had, part of it I hadn't. So the first part is what I hadn't. Allowing yourself to be vulnerable is then also opening up some of those gates towards self awareness. Because if you're not allowing yourself to be vulnerable, even when you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, are you being honest with yourself? Yes or no? Because if you're putting on a bravado act of I've got all the answers I must be the strong leader I must be this, you know, playing the role of leader today kind of think when you look in the mirror, are you really being honest with yourself and letting your guard down and going, Hey, what am I good at? And no problem with owning your strengths. By the way, be proud of those and this is where humility can sometimes be a stumbling block. We sometimes we can go the other way and be overly humble about the things that we're good at. But look at yourself in the mirror. And if you're vulnerable if you let your guard down, you can give yourself an honest scorecard as to where you are. And then when you do that in front of your team, and you take that accountability, and you take that, hey, this was my part in this breakdown that we had last week, whatever the case may be, everyone else can feel like they can stick up their hand and be honest in a year. And you know what my response to that was not where it should have been at cetera. Now we've got a learning, we've got a individual learning where everyone is self reflecting and going, oh, yeah, I can see where my part in that breakdown happened. And then collectively, everyone is sharing it and the learning that could happen there. So the vulnerability starting with being true to yourself and be honest with yourself in the mirror, then doing it in front of the team to encourage others to do that as well. How does that sit with you?

Claire Chandler: 26:09

Yeah, I love that. You know, it's so interesting, because as you said, you know, a lot of leaders sort of tell themselves, I'm supposed to have all the answers. So two truths to bust that myth. One, the reason you have a team, it's because you're not supposed to do everything yourself, or have all the answers. So that's the first part of busting that myth. And the second part is, your team already knows that you don't have all the answers, right? And so the more you lean into your bravado versus your self awareness of what you are good at, and where you need others to complement, not Complement, complement, right? A balance you out, not be Yes men, the more you lean into, into that vulnerability into that self awareness and into that self acknowledgement of this is what I know, this is what I'm leaning on you to bring. And this is what we are collectively going to figure out together. And there's a difference between acknowledging that and demonstrating lack of confidence, right? Because you still want to be confident as a leader, you want people to understand that even for the things that you don't entirely know, you're going to figure out, you're going to bring in the right people, and we're going to figure it out together, but you can't be cocky, and you can't prop up again, this cardboard facade of something that you're not because your people already know, the one thing you have in common with everyone else is a starting point is your fellow humans. And humans are by definition, flawed. We're not perfect. You know, I my fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Isaac always said she was about 80 When I had her so I know she's long since passed. But you know, she said, the reason they put erasers on pencils is because we make mistakes. And that always stuck with me because I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true. We're not supposed to be perfect. We are not expected to be perfect. And you know, the leader who thinks that he or she has to have all the answers from day one. Well, no wonder you're overwhelmed. No wonder you have all this pressure. And no wonder you are putting it on yourself to emulate things that are not genuine to you.

Mick Spiers: 28:01

Yeah, loving that clear. And yeah, the statement you said that's because you almost have these exact words, but because the team already know, right, so if you think that showing weakness, or admitting mistakes or showing shortcomings is a sign of weakness, then you're forgetting that they probably already know. And when you're able to stand up on the stage and say, Hey, this is not my strength, or this is not my area of strength. And that's why I bring great people around me to compliment me with your strengths, etc. It just changes the whole dialogue, it actually builds confidence. You think it shows a lack of confidence, but it actually builds confidence if you can be honest with people and just say, Hey, this is what I'm good at. This is what you're good at. This is why we work well together, right? So it's okay to admit your mistakes. It's okay to admit your shortcomings. In fact, it builds confidence it builds trust when you do so I want to wind the clock back a little bit and connect two dots that have happened in the interview. So far, Claire, you mentioned about this leader that was preparing for a town hall and you got them to be unscripted and to connect to their personal why. And then in your very first introduction, in this discussion, you discussed about finding your personal why so I'd love to know your personal why, Claire and how you found it.

Claire Chandler: 29:13

Sort of smirking because I get nostalgic about these sorts of things. You know, when I first went out on my own, as they said, I took a couple of years to really hone in on what my personal mission would be, you know that I would build a business around. And originally I focused on the other end of the organizational spectrum, I focused on individual employees. And I was doing workshops around helping people reconnect with their own passion for their work, their job, their role, their you know, what they were sort of all about. And these workshops were wonderful. And I had people coming up to me afterwards, you know, thank you so much. I rediscovered my passion. I can't wait to go back to work tomorrow or the following week and have this conversation with my boss. And what invariably ended up happening was I was getting their passion reignited. And I was sending them back into companies and with leaders who were not as enlightened. So I had really lit the torch. And then they went back into these organizations. And their manager said, I appreciate that you want to focus on this, but this is the job I need you to fill. Right. So instead of entrepreneurial spirit, like where you're going with that. I can see how if I put you in the path where you you know, play to your strengths more often and sort of tap into your motivators. You're really going to take off but we can't do it that way, because we have this job description, or we have this set of objectives, or we have this financial target. And so I realized that part of my mission was around curing workplace misery, but I was starting at the wrong end. And so I started to focus instead at the executive leadership level, because as I learned over time, leaders are the ones who shape culture and culture is truly what drives success. Financial Performance is a lagging indicator, your culture is what drives your success or drives your business into the ground, right. And so that became really what drove me was working with the best possible leaders that I could, because they have the greater potential to become amazing. I have sort of this strict no, expletive type leaders policy, right. So I don't like to spend time with toxic leaders who don't get it and won't get it. There are a myriad other consultants who can help them. But that's just not me. That's not who I want to spend time with. Right. So that's really kind of part of my mission is not just curing workplace misery, starting with the leaders, but really focusing on working with leaders that I enjoy spending time with, I care about them as individual humans, and I want to see them go from good leaders to amazing.

Mick Spiers: 31:40

Yeah, really cool, Claire, and I can see the passion in your eyes as you're talking about this. And it's obviously something that means a whole lot to you. And the things I'm taking away from that her curing workplace misery, just love that. But you're discovered one day maybe that you're working at the wrong end, that if you kind of lit the fire in someone that was working in an environment where they weren't allowed to flourish, then that was potentially I gotta say, it is potentially going to increase that misery because then now they've come back all excited, energetic, and they get smothered, right? So you decided to go okay, no, I need to work at a different audience here. I think that's wonderful. I also think it's wonderful that you work with people that already have an element of strength, and you're amplifying their strength. There's a lot of people that say, Oh, you must work on your weaknesses. But imagine what you can do when you work on your strengths. So you're taking leaders that are already, let's say, good, and to use Jim Collins terms, I'm gonna say you're taking them from good to great. Alright, so yeah, that's really cool. Now, we've spoken about purpose quite a bit. Now we've spoken about your purpose. We've spoken about leaders, where you've helped them rediscover their personal, why, etc. Let's talk about this growth on purpose kind of framework that you have. Tell us how you come about that, and what makes it important to you and what makes it work?

Claire Chandler: 32:58

Yeah, so growth on purpose grew out of my years, certainly, as a business owner, and a, you know, a solopreneur. But also, you know, really kind of started out of some of the best practices during my time in corporate. And so it is a nine step framework, if you will, that takes organizations from really defining what their purpose is, because just like culture, your purpose is foundational a culture without a purpose and a purpose. Without a strong culture, they're just, you know, you're they're gonna fall flat. So there's the symbiotic relationship between the two. But you know, that sort of sparked this framework. So this is the kind of the culmination of a lot of the best practices that I have formulated and developed and kind of tested and evolved over my years, both within corporate as a leader and then seeing an advisor to executives. And it really takes an organization, depending on where they fit in those nine phases, if you will, you know, some are a little bit more mature in terms of having a fit, strong positive culture than others. So they don't have to start necessarily at step zero, which is really defining your purpose, right. And so then it is also divided of those nine steps into three main pillars. There's awareness, there's acceleration, and there's alignment. And so that first pillar is all around awareness of self. And you and I have already sort of touched upon that quite a bit in this discussion. There is, you know, at the top of all of that is purpose, again, having clarity around what you are in business to accomplish, why that matters. But then there is this internal work that we keep talking about at a leadership level and an individual contributor level around what truly is your natural strength? What are the things that do come naturally to you? What is the style that is genuine for you? What are the values the motivators that drive you and getting deeply self aware of an individual level of what makes you tick? What is that DNA, so then you can kind of move into this acceleration of trust. And we've already talked about the importance of trust, it is foundational to a positive culture. And the way that you accelerate trust is you can't manufacture it, but you can create experiences and you can create combinations of people and conversations in spaces that allow for people to be both vulnerable and curious, challenging, but respectful and bring them together in ways where they can see that to completely paraphrase in a non eloquent way. Maya Angelou, there is more that we have a like then that we have as differences, right. And sometimes it's about creating an environment and creating events for groups of people, groups of leaders, especially, but even teams where they can tackle a common enemy, and put aside their silos and put aside the us versus them and put aside the turf wars. I have this experience, I was facilitating a retreat several months ago with his group of senior level leaders in an organization that was still coming through a post merger environment. And it was the first time that this combination of senior level leaders had ever been in the same organization. Some of them knew each other from previous kind of legacy organizations, some are hired from the outside. And so they had never worked together as a team before. And they were following or trying to follow the lead of someone that most of them didn't know. And so their level of trust in each other and in this leader was not very high. So they called me and they said, you know, we have this very ambitious sort of set of outcomes we want to achieve in the next five years, can you come in and help us facilitate a strategic plan that gets us from where we are today to where we're where we want to get to, and that is all around alignment on what matters, which is the third pillar of this growth on purpose framework. But we weren't there yet. Because remember how I said there are certain organizations, you may be on a certain point in this nine point roadmap of growth on purpose, and we have to kind of meet you where you are. And I said, I would be happy to facilitate the strategic planning session. But that has to be day to day one has to be around strengthening the dynamics across your team, because admittedly, when I spoke to each of you one on one, the trust level isn't really there. And we have to work on that first. So they agreed and gave me latitude to do that. And so when they walked in for day one, it was really interesting, I always kind of watched where people sit, what they migrate toward, you know, some people sit with people, they know, some people sit in the same seat, no matter how many days in a row, you have, you know, you'll have a retreat, some people drop their stuff go straight for the coffee, it's one of those mornings, that's fine. And what was interesting about this group was they walked in, and they didn't really talk to each other, they kind of went to their own seat, they got their notepad out, they open their laptop, maybe they got a cup of coffee, but they didn't really interact with each other. And it wasn't that there was tension, there was just this lack of a bond, which I thought was really interesting. And so we spent that first day day two was going to be all about strategic planning, we spent that first day on really helping them get to know each other on a more human level. So we had done some of that groundwork before they walked in the room around self awareness. So I had done a lot of work with him one on one on, you know, what drives you? What are you naturally good at? What are your blind spots, you know, all of those sorts of things. And then we spent most of that day, helping them to share that from a place of vulnerability, and a place of self awareness about what makes them tick, and what they struggle with. And by the end of that day, they were laughing with each other. They were joking around, they were teasing the boss, who prior to that day, most of them said was a very intimidating person, they were teasing that executive, we all went out to a group dinner. And they practically had to kick us out at the end of the night, because nobody wanted to leave. Day two strategic planning went great, they collaborate, it was wonderful. I'll skip that story only to say that if we had tried to start there with that group, when they first walked in, I can guarantee we would not have ended up in the place that we did, which was his collaboratively built plan with milestones that everybody bought into and committed to, we would not have gotten there not on one day, had we not spent the time getting, you know, kind of unpacking for everyone who they were as people why they were there to begin with what drives them what they struggle with, and why that matters. And so that was a lot of that focus on that second pillar, which is acceleration of trust. And again, you can't manufacture trust, you can't go in there and pretend to be somebody you're not, you can't go in there and have all of your defenses up and say, Well, that's good that you all want to share a little bit around what motivates you. But that's not for me, the more that you do that and you put up those walls, the more you're guaranteeing that you are never going to achieve that strategic plan.

Mick Spiers: 39:27

It's really interesting, Claire, and a key takeaway that I'm taking from that is around knowing where you are as a team and not trying to go to the answer before you've built some of the foundations, right. So we've got the awareness of self, the acceleration of trust, and then the alignment of what matters. I love the three kind of major pillars here. But if we haven't gotten through some of those initial stages, if we accelerate too fast towards the end goal, we might not have put the groundwork in that will enable that to be successful. So awareness of self is I think everyone in the room and a little bit awareness of each other. The acceleration of trust is the kind of why am I here? Why are you here? Why are we here? And if we're able to have those conversations, we can build a bond that you said to build a connection and understand that we have more in common than we don't understand that my success is your success and your success is my success and break down some of those us and their mentalities of and I'm gonna say some of the awesome them also is about people second guessing each other's motivations. But if you've had those conversations, you don't have to make assumptions about someone else's motivations anymore. Could you have had that conversation? So that kind of why me, why you, why us I think is really powerful. And one of the things I was thinking of as you're going is the Drexler Sibbett team performance model. And it's the same thing. It's got seven stages of high performance teams. But what it gets you to do, it gets you to do an assessment of the stages. And if you've got a weakness back at step two, stop everything, address that weakness first, before you continue on to step three, step four, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, really, really lovingly, Claire. I'm gonna ask a question that if there's a leader out there that's thinking about this, and they're hearing this Oh, yeah. Okay, awareness of self, acceleration of trust, alignment on what matters? How do they get started? If they've got a team? That is a bit of a mixed bag amongst that continuum?

Claire Chandler: 41:22

Yeah, so a couple of things. First, just to reflect back on the point you just made, because you you are spot on this framework is a journey, it is not a menu, it's not a we're going to pick and choose, which are the elements that are important. Think of it as a roadmap, right? And as you said, with the example you just gave, if on step two, you haven't done that, or that is, you know, you have, as you said, a mixed bag of people who are either, you know, really self aware, and others who are not, you can't now skip forward. You know, it's like the client who called me and said, come in and facilitate the strategic plan. Well, that falls into the third pillar. How are you on trust? Well, to be honest, these folks have never really worked together before they think the boss is a little bit of a bully, the trust isn't there. Okay, great. So we have to at least start in pillar two, how are you on self awareness? Is everybody truly understand what motivates them individually? And you know, all these sorts of things? Well, actually, now you say that we could probably do some work there. Great. So then we start there, you can't skip steps. This is not a menu of pick one from column one, column two and column three, right, the way that I typically do it, if it is not an organization that I have already been working with, and this one was, there's sort of an easy self assessment that I can take them through, where they literally kind of go through a series of questions that help them analyze where they are on those nine steps, so that they can generate a little bit of a score, it's really more of a benchmark or a baseline to then say, okay, you know, you've got some of the really great things in pillar three, but you have a lot of cracks in the foundation and pillar one. So we need to start there.

Mick Spiers: 42:55

how do I possibly find time for all of this, I want to position to you that it actually creates time, if you do this groundwork, have a look at your calendar, right. So those people in the audience that have got that calendar that you can't stick a business card in, like Claire was saying before, there's just jam packed, you don't have any time. Have a think about the nine steps that Claire's talking about, and have a think about how much of your calendar is spent on addressing issues that bubble up because you didn't put in the groundwork, you didn't put in the awareness, you didn't put in the acceleration of trust, you didn't have the alignment on what matters. And all of a sudden, you're just busy being busy, you're not busy being productive, you're not busy leading, you're busy patching up, I don't know, it could be a conflict between two members that don't trust each other. And if they haven't done that groundwork to work out who they are, and why they should trust each other. And the fact that they are on the same journey together. Your calendar is now full of meetings where you're in essentially dispute resolution. And if you did the work if you did the groundwork to get this awareness of self, acceleration of trust, and then alignment of what matters, all of a sudden, your counter actually looks a little bit more purposeful and a little bit more intentional. And it's got more freedom in there for a better thinking and a bit of planning, not just being busy being busy everyday. How does that sit with you, Claire?

Claire Chandler: 44:23

That's exactly right. And you know, that example of the client who said, you know, come in, we need you to facilitate a strategic plan. They got the fact when I called them on it, that if they only invested just one extra day on the acceleration of trust, which required them also to invest, you know, one on one with me a little bit before then. But we're talking about an hour per person, right? It wasn't a huge amount of time, they understood that we got to a much more productive and impactful place by the end of that strategic planning day than we ever would have done because they allowed for that investment of one more day. And you know, admittedly it I started that first day that sort of team dynamics focus day with acknowledging and saying to them, I realize how busy you all are, I realized that it is never a good time to take one day out of the business to work on the business. And yet I've asked you to take out too, and by the end of it, it wasn't even a question because they understood that had they not invested that time on day one to get the team to gel, and to set aside barriers they were putting up that made no sense. They understood it then right and they kind of got it. And there's this moment that happens in all of these sort of group sessions, whether it's a retreat, it's a think tank, it's a workshop, it's whatever, there's this moment that happens when the light bulb goes on, where they just get it. And it's not typically collectively, right, it usually just sort of turns on person by person. But it always happens. That's the other part that drives me, you know, I say to my clients all the time, when they bring me in for these things, I am the least important person in the room, I am not there with a long white beard, and I have all of the wisdom, and I'm going to impart knowledge that you don't already have, you have it within you to take what you have that's good and make it great, or take what's great and make it amazing, you have it within you. I'm just here as a guide to create an environment where I can challenge you a little bit and pull it out of you. But it's in you, you know, I want to see the best facilitators, because I'm not trying to say that about me, but like a good facilitator does that right? They pull that information out of other people, and it's part of what I'm after. But selfishly, when I get to that point where that click happens, it is so affirming for me. And it's what propels me. It's why I love what I do, because that moment happens, it happens in a one on one coaching relationship. But when you do that with a group, and you create this sort of collective moment where they go, like, Why was I fighting this? Right? Why was I miss trusting? Why was I labeling? Why was I not you know, being vulnerable, being real, being true to who I am and acknowledging in a real way? What I'm not? What I don't know, What I'm not good at? What I'm afraid of?

Mick Spiers: 47:04

Yeah, wonderful, Claire, and I got to share with you that when you talk about that your face lines up. So that tells me that that's your connection to purpose right there. You know, when you get these moments of realization, the aha moments in a group that you're facilitating, I can see that light your heart on fire, which is your connection to purpose, I think it's wonderful. And so many wonderful takeaways today Claire as we kind of draws to a close, but doing this stuff, putting in the ground work around this awareness itself, the acceleration of trust, the alignment on what matters, this is what's going to create space so that your team, you were talking about it, you're basically eliminating barriers to success, whether they're limiting beliefs, or it could be even assumptions that people are making about each other, all this kind of stuff, when you do the groundwork to get rid of those things and build up that trust in the team that trust in each other the trust in the leader than just everything becomes easier. So don't rush don't rush past, putting in the groundwork of establishing an amazing culture and amazing team built on awareness, trust and purpose. Really, really powerful stuff, many takeaways today, Claire, I'd love to take us down to our Rapid Round. So these are the same four questions that we ask all of our guests. So the first one is, what's the one thing you know, now that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Claire Chandler: 48:24

This is a hard question, because you asked me to narrow it to one. But I'd have to say experiences and knowledge are far more valuable than stuff, right? And as someone who is no longer 20, I can tell my 20 year old self that your level of energy and stamina, only decrease as you get older, to take advantage of that youthful energy and enthusiasm and go out and experience things and learn for as many people as you possibly can.

Mick Spiers: 48:50

Yeah, I love that experiences a wonderful teacher better than any of them. Absolutely great. What's your favorite book?

Claire Chandler: 48:56

You'd have to pick a genre for me. But you know, the one that has always stuck with me is Truman Capote is in cold blood. I was a budding young wannabe journalist when I was in school, and that book just like really blew my mind.

Mick Spiers: 49:08

All right, very good. What's your favorite quote?

Claire Chandler: 49:10

I'm going to be a little bit self serving and use one of my own, which is the biggest impact on a company's culture is the behavior of its leaders.

Mick Spiers: 49:17

Yeah, that's a powerful takeaway right there. And it's why you do what you do, right, So very good. And finally, there's going to be people listening, and they're going to be listening to this nine step process, going to be thinking about the three pillars of awareness of self, acceleration of trust, and then alignment on what matters. And they're probably thinking, oh, yeah, I wonder, have we done the groundwork? Have we done the groundwork to establish all of those things? If someone wants to take advantage of your services or to know more about you? How do they find you?

Claire Chandler: 49:45

Easiest way is to go to my website, which is clairechandler.net. And I'm also on LinkedIn. So I'd love to connect with your audience and get to know them a little bit better.

Mick Spiers: 49:54

All right, brilliant, Claire, it's been such a pleasure talking to you today. I felt like I learned a lot today. I always do. And today was particularly special. I feel like I learned a lot therefore I'm hoping the audience have also connected to what you're saying. And I've spent some time reflecting while they're listening about where they sit on this continuum and their team. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your wisdom today. It was a great pleasure having you on the show.

Claire Chandler: 50:19

Thank you. It was an absolute honor.

Mick Spiers: 50:24

This episode was brought to you by our new business partner, The Lighthouse Group, we have joined forces with The Lighthouse Group to multiply the impact we're having on the world. The Lighthouse Group work with strategic business leaders who want to make change. Leaders who recognize that leadership is the key lever of organizational performance. The Lighthouse Group is the how to your Y, working with you to develop a leadership system that forges a high performance culture, across the breadth and depth of your organization, from the CEO and executive leadership team, through senior and middle management and all the way to aspiring leaders, those with high potential that will form the next generation of leaders in your business. You can find more details about The Lighthouse Group in the show notes. And don't forget to tell them that I sent you The Lighthouse Group accelerating transformation through leadership. Thank you for listening to The Leadership Project at mickspiers.com A huge call out to Faris Sedek for his video editing of all of our video content. And to all of the team at TLP. Joan Gozon, Gerald Calibo and my amazing wife Sei Spiers. I could not do this show without you. Don't forget to subscribe to The Leadership Project YouTube channel where we bring you interesting videos each and every week. And you can follow us on social particularly on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Now in the meantime, please do take care. Look out for each other and join us on this journey as we learn together and lead together.