142. Leadership and The Psychology of Human Behavior with Richard Flint

💭 How do you start 2024 on a successful note?

Richard Flint is an author of 19 books, a sought-after speaker, trainer, and coach who has dedicated his life to helping others find success in life. His in-depth study of human behavior started with his personal experience of having a traumatic childhood. This was when he first realized that the top need of humans is to know that they matter. Since then, he has lived to help others with the constant reminder that someone else needs him to show up everyday.

In this episode, Richard shares about the importance of addressing behaviors that do not necessarily align with one’s personal values and beliefs. Otherwise, you are bound to lose your high-performing talent. He then proceeds to discuss the four rooms that you need to establish to achieve success and balance in life: the business room, the family room, the social room, and the personal room.

🎧 Download this episode to discover the importance of self-awareness, trust, and faith in oneself in living out a truly successful life.

🌐 Connect with Richard:
• Website: https://www.richardflint.com/
• Four Rooms of Success: https://successhouse.co/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-flint/
• Email: richard@richardflint.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RichardFlintFan/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/RichardFlintInt
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richardflintofficial/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RichardFlintTV 

📚 You can purchase Richard's book at Amazon:
• I Need A Life! Book by Richard Flint: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0937851345/
• Behavior Never Lies: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0937851337/
• The Truth about Stress: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0937851329/

Book Mentioned:
Jonathan Livingston Seagull Book by Richard Bach

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:26

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Richard Flint. Richard is the Chairman of Flint Inc, a very successful and sought after training and development organization that helps people look for self development and success in life. He's also a sought after public speaker who holds seminars around the world, and the author of 19 books, which is just an amazing accomplishment in itself. And he's an expert in human behavior, which instantly gets my attention. I'm obsessed with understanding human behavior, which is very complex. And this concept around what does success look like, and this concept of a success house, and the four rooms that you need to establish in your life if you do want to achieve success and balance, and that's what we're going to unpack today with little side elements around human behavior as we go. So without any further ado, Richard, I'd love it if you'd say hello to the audience. And I'm really interested to know at least a little bit about your backstory, and what inspired you to be so interested in human behavior.

Richard Flint: 1:42

Mick, I'm so honored to be here with you, and I love your city. I was telling you before that, I've made five tours of Australia speaking tours, and I just love your country. I love your people between Australia and New Zealand, they're probably the friendliest place I've ever been in all of my 32 years of traveling and speaking, I have been on the international speaking circuit for 34 years. And in that time, I've grown a lot. I've learned a lot. And I've listened a lot. If you had asked me if I ever saw myself doing this, I would tell you, No, I am a man who believes that God has a purpose for your life. And what we have to do is be willing to listen and not hear, Mick. There's a vast difference between hearing life and listening to life. And the challenge for most people is that they hear life. And when we're hearing, we're cutting and pasting what we want. And when we're listing, we're finding the puzzle and completing it with our behavior. And with our precedents. Before I started this, I was born here in the states in New Orleans, and was adopted Mick I never knew my real dad, if you can see my birth certificate, or it says, Father, there's no name, I have no idea who my real dad was. I used to be ashamed to talk about this. But my mother was a prostitute in New Orleans, and I was the result of a one night stand. She didn't want me. So when I was two weeks old, I was adopted into a family, where the only reason I was adopted was because my dad wanted a son. They had three daughters, none of them from the same family all adopted, and my mother, let me know that I was not wanted, I can take you back to the age of six. And from the age of six to the age of 16. Mick, my mother used to make one of three statements to me, you're the stupidest kid I've ever met, you're never going to amount to anything in life. And the worst day of my life was when we adopted you. And I'll be glad when you're no longer in my house. And you know, as a child, you believe your parents never lie. So anything they say has got to be truth. And when I was 12 years of age, we moved from New Orleans to Oklahoma. And when I was 16 had been 16 for two weeks, my mom had told me that I had to get a job and pay room and board. So I worked at a local grocery store. And on a Thursday night, I called my dad to come get me in, my dad drove up in front of the grocery store. And I started to walk towards the car just like I always did. And dad stepped up and said, Richard, wait a minute. I didn't know what was happening when you're 16 going on 12 life doesn't make a lot of sense to you. But when my dad stepped behind the car, I realized what was going on because my dad was carrying something that what he was carrying was the suitcase. And he came to where I was standing, he said the suitcase down beside me. And I was informed that that night my mother had made the decision that I could no longer live in her house. And I wish she could have been there. Your listeners could have been there because my dad hugged me. And he whispered in my ear. He said, Richard, I don't agree with this, but I don't know what to do. And with that, he hugged me. And before he looked for you walked away, he looked at me and said, Don't you ever forget I love you very much. And then he didn't walk back to the car. He ran back to the car. He got in the car and he was driving away and I was didn't realize where I was. But I was in the middle of the street and this guy screamed at me get out of the street because I was watching my dad drive out on my lights. And that was one of the most critical moments in my life. Because you're 16 you're really still child. So what do you do? And I finally told myself, you can't spend your life standing on the street corner. So I went into downtown Ardmore, Oklahoma. I went to the hotel Ardmore, I told them I needed a room and they looked at me funny but I had cash so they gave me a key. I went up to the seventh floor and I opened the door and Mick, I never turned the lights on. I just walked across the room dropped the suitcase open the window and crawled out and settled on the ledge and on that ledge I had to make a decision. Do I live or do I die. And every one of us, every listener you have, has had turning points in their life. And that was a turning point for me. Because I understand people who contemplate suicide, the only person who can ever take their own life as a person who feels if they weren't here, they'd never be missed. They can't see any value to their life. And on that ledge, I made the decision that if I jumped at my mother would win and Mick, I wasn't going to give her that victory in my life. Next morning, I called a gentleman I knew because his two kids were my best friends told him what has happened, he came to my room. And after about a two hour conversation, he said, What are you going to do, and I said, I'm not going back. So he helped me find a room with a lady who was the editor of the Daily newspaper in town, and I paid her $5 a week to live in her house. And every day I'd go to school, I'd go to a football or tennis practice, and I'd go to work and I'd work till nine o'clock, I'd come home and I'd sit in her kitchen at her dining table. And until I couldn't keep my eyes open doing my homework, because I knew when I went into that little dark bedroom, I was gonna cry myself to sleep. Because I'm a firm believer that the number one thing that human life wants to know is that they matter. And that's missing today. And it's also missing in leadership. We have a people who a lot of people who call themself a leader, but they're not because leaders lead. And one of the ways they lead is they connect with their people. And they always understand that as a leader, I'm not alone, that I have to work through my people. And so that takes that connection, and it takes letting people know that they matter. I was lucky enough that I got a scholarship to college. And during my sophomore year, I made the decision that I had to go and confront my mom and dad, I have 16 philosophies make that whole my life together. And one of those is this, anything you don't confront you validate, anything in life that you don't confront, you validate. And I knew if I never confronted my mom and dad that this would live with me for the rest of my life. It was 62 miles from my dormitory room to my mom and dad's front door, and I got to their house, I started to pull in and I couldn't I drove past their house and about 10 miles 16 miles past their house, I stopped to build until myself, if you don't do this, now, you're never going to do it. Because once you give something permission to become whom you are, as you grow, it becomes more challenging to face that and turn it loose. And that's why so many people struggle with their life is because they hang on to because fear won't let them let go. I pulled into my mom and dad's front driveway, and I stared at that door. And I told myself, you got to do this. So I got out of the car and I ran to the door and there was a screen door and a wooden door and both were closed. And I knocked on the screen door and my dad was the person who came to the door. And when he opened the door and he saw me make he just turned white. And I wish you could have been there because my dad didn't unlock the screen door. He stepped through the screen door. And with one hug. My dad told me everything that he had pinned up inside of him, almost carried me into the living room. After a couple of minutes, I realized and he realized my mother wasn't there she was in the kitchen fixing breakfast. So a call from my mother that come see who was there. And when my mother walked into the doorway between the kitchen and the living room, and she saw me she just stopped. If looks could have killed, I would have been dead. She took her left hand reached behind her and untied her apron, let it fall to the floor and took her right hand and reach over to the table where her purse always was picked up her purse, took out her car keys, walked out the back door, got in her car and drove off. And Mick, I never saw her again. But let me tell you something that was probably one of the top turning points I've ever had in my life. Because up to that time, I was living trying to prove to my mother she was wrong. And so even though I wasn't there, my mother still owned me. Because the things we don't confront out of yesterday, hang on to us as we grow. And when my mother walked out that backdoor and drove off, she freed me Mick, she freed me because I realized that nothing that I would do would ever change her opinion of me. And that was probably one of the greatest days of my life. Because that started my journey to discover who Richard Flint is. And that's a lifelong journey. But it's taken me years, a lot of pain, a lot of struggle. But I'll tell you what you're looking today probably the most self confident guy you'll ever meet in your life. I tell people, I throw parties and I'm the only one I fight because I love who I am. And every day I live, to express to others what they can do with their life. You know, if you walk around my house here in South Florida, and you were to looking for rooms, there's a sticky note in each of those rooms. And it all says the same thing. Somebody's going to need me today. And that's my driving force every day in my life is that today somebody is going to need me tapes on. Somedays, It's me that needs me. There are days when I need myself. But every day I have found that because I spend my life preparing to make a difference in people's lives. That person appears this morning. He was the little guy who comes in he sprays my house for bugs, and we got to talking and he's going through a challenge in his life right now and so forth. We were sitting down, and we were talking. And I was able to give him two thoughts that will help him to get past where he is in his life. Sometimes we get so busy being busy being busy, that we miss the people that input into our life, for us to be able to touch that life and help them make a difference in their lives. And that's a little bit about me.

Mick Spiers: 10:45

Thank you so much for sharing that Richard, that was just absolutely beautiful. And thank you for sharing so openly, I was completely enthralled. Throughout the complete story, there were so many things I was picking up there the difference between listening and hearing, that we all have pivotal moments in our lives and decision making where we're going to turn left or turn right, that we accept what we don't challenge that we hold on to things and those things that we hold on to first of all, may not be real. And secondly may be what is actually holding us back that we all want to feel like we matter. And you've all heard that on the show before. And that's what leadership is about is to make other people feel that they matter create the environment where they can do their very best work. And with this mattering, there's always someone that needs us, Richard, it may be yourself. Like you said, there's one other human being that needs you today. Think about that, in some respects, that helps you to understand that you do matter. And it helps them to understand that they matter. It's about sharing love and sharing care for each other. By this matching of mattering and the need to support each other. There's two things I wanted to unpack there in a little bit more detail. I want to come back to your father, it's clear that your father did not agree with the actions of your mother. But he also felt helpless and he didn't know what to do. I feel that that happens in many people's lives. They are in this environment where they feel stuck. They don't agree. They're torn, their insides are ripped apart, but they don't know what to do. This can also happen in the workplace. People feel stuck in a job where they don't know what to do this almost learned helplessness. How do you get people past that, Richard?

Richard Flint: 12:21

Well, first thing, you got to know what your strengths and your talents are. I mean, my dad did not know how to handle my mom, my mom was a very strong domineering person who was never wrong. And you could put the facts in front of her, and she'd find something wrong with the facts. And so my mom and dad, if they ever had a discussion, it was a fight. And my mother would pick the fight, so that she would have a reason not to listen. And here's what your listeners need to understand. The basic difference between hearing and listening is that hearing is when I approach from my emotions up. And when I'm living through my emotions, I look for the emotions that justify what I'm doing. When I'm listening, I'm listening from my mind down. And our mind always wants to learn, it's always looking for adventure. And so when I have that foundation within me, and there's only two foundations to like me, one foundation is belief, trust and faith. The other foundation is doubt, worry and uncertainty. And when I don't see value in myself is because I have been programmed out of my yesterday, because everything you believe about yourself comes from yesterday. And I've been programmed to doubt myself to worry about myself to be uncertain about life. And you know, you've got to be able to know who you are. It's challenging. Sometimes I watch in business, and I watch people who are the backbone of the company, I put every company, the three groups, sponge of spectators and camels. And camels are the backbone of the company. They are the drivers, they are the people that you depend on. They are the people that get things done. Spectators are the people who go to work everyday not to work, but to watch. And they stand there and everything that leadership wants to do, they can find something wrong with and they're the enemy of the company. And then sponges are your new people who don't know enough not to be excited. And you know, one of the things I've also learned in the research we've been doing for the past five years, in every organization, there is a leader 85% of the time, it's not the person with the position. It's one of the spectators who is the negative driver in the company. And the thing that they want to do is they want to bring the little sponges into their group and not let them grow. And they want to pick on the camos so that this little sponges don't see the importance of that Campbell, and I watched leadership every day in companies that will sacrifice the camels by not addressing the spectators and in the process. They destroyed the little sponges. And you know, title doesn't make you a leader. And that's something we have to understand title does not make you a leader. It's your presence that makes you a leader. It's your behavior that makes you a leader and a lot of people who call themselves a leader. They're not they're a participant in the confusion. They're a participant in the mess because leaders contract leaders communicate leaders listen, leaders develop other people and what happens if you don't develop your little sponges and take them from sponge to to camel a lot, you're gonna lose something and that's the number one group leaving companies today.

Mick Spiers: 15:24

Really powerful, Richard. There's three things on hearing there again. So coming back to this listening and hearing. So the thing that I'm understanding here is that hearing is just confirmation bias. You're only hearing the things that confirm what you already believe, or maybe even hearing the things that you want to hear. And you're not actually paying attention to what's going on around you. Listening is holding space in allowing something new to come to understanding. And I just absolutely love that. Then the power of the stories that we tell ourselves in our head, are we going to tell us a story about what we can do, or we're going to tell stories about what we can't do? And that can have a huge power on how we then face live? And then..

Richard Flint: 16:05

Can I take you down one level there Mick? because what you're talking about is so critical. Yesterday is a reference library, that's all it is. It's a reference library. And then yesterday, there's two filing cabinets, there's one set of filing cabinets, that's there of all the rooms, all the different disappointments, all the negatives, all the things that you use to justify what your life isn't. And then there's another set of filing cabinets that's there. That's all about your successes, about what makes you feel good about yourself, what have you achieved, where's your value? What do you bring, and everything I know about me, depends on which filing cabinet I go back to, I can always have a brief conversation with somebody and I can pinpoint which filing cabinet they're using.

Mick Spiers: 16:46

You can see it everyone listening to the show, you know this, you know that you fall into the trap yourself, by the way, but you can also see it in other individuals, which is we're going to come to the spectators in a moment as well. You can see the cans and the carts and where are they stuck? Are they stuck? Which filing cabinet are they stuck in as Richards talking about this, let's come to these camels, sponges and spectators which to me is another manifestation of what you said about what we don't confront, we accept what we sometimes forget is the impact of others when we don't do that confront. So if we do have the spectators that are taking potshots at the company, they've got the behaviors that are not in line with the values of let's say, the collective group. And yet somehow they get away with it, we get the behavior that we celebrate, reward and tolerate. And what Richard's talking about is this tolerate when you have the spectators that are not really contributing, they're not really in line with the values of the rest of the group. And somehow they get away with it. We forget the toxic impact that has on the sponges and the camels, by the way, who get upset with well, how is this person getting away with this? So one of your jobs as a leader is to set the values that you're expect the behaviors that you're expecting the business and to address it when you've got someone that's not in line with those values and behaviors. How does that sit with you, Richard?

Richard Flint: 18:08

Yeah, well, you know, let me go back to the loose punches are your brand new people, and they're eager, they're excited. But that's a sign of immaturity. Excitement within itself is based in possibilities. So if you promise me something that creates a possibility in my mind, and then if leadership doesn't deliver, you've sucked the eagerness out of me. And this little group of spectators standing over there, and they're watching what leadership is doing to destroy that little sponge. So what do they do? They bring the little sponge into their fold, and they'll tell them, Listen, you need to listen to us. And these sponges, they're so valuable, because they're your future. And the spectators are your enemy. And you can pinpoint it. They're never paid enough. They're always late for work, and they're not 1520 minutes late. They're three to seven minutes late, consistently. And you think the little sponges don't see that. And we tell people you got to be there on time. But we watch the spectators get by with everything, anything they want to do. They gossip, they destroy other people. And then your capitalists are the people you depend on. But I took a group of 100 200 camels because yeah, what happened to them camels, I took 102 hub camels that left companies, and I asked him, Why did you leave? And make the number one answer. They told me they'd lost respect for leadership. And all they saw was what the so called leader was doing to satisfy to destroy the little sponge, satisfy the spectator and then come to them and ask them to clean up the mess that the spectator has made. And they got frustrated with it.

Mick Spiers: 19:39

They're validating the spectators behavior. And the interesting thing about the sponge I love this because the sponge is at bat, I'm gonna say that neuroplasticity, were they ready to learn the behavior? They don't know. They don't know. They knew in the workplace, let alone this company. And they don't know how they need to behave to get on. So what are they going to learn? They're going to either learn learned helplessness they're going to learn and because the leaders aren't doing what needs to be done, or they're going to learn from the spectators and become a spectator themselves, or what are you going to do to set up the right rituals. So they've learned from the camels?

Richard Flint: 20:12

Yeah, what you have to do is you have to control the spectators and I'm a person who believes every six months you fire one spectator, because that sends a message to the rest of them. We're not going to tolerate this because the behavior of all people is consistent with the permission that you give them to be. So if I don't confront that spectator, I've given them permission, then when I finally get upset, I come to them, and I'm just angry at them. They don't understand because I've been doing this all along, and you haven't said anything. And just to give to your audience, this is the most published article. And I've written over 500 articles that have been published, this is the most read article I've ever done, it's entitled you can't feed them if you don't know. And it's all about the sponges, expectation candles. And if anyone in your audience would like to have a copy of it, I'll send it to him, just Richard at Richard flint.com, I'll send them a copy of the article, they need this information. Because without it, you're going to sacrifice your little sponges, you're going to chase your camels off. And by the way, mostly these camels went to other companies for less money, because the environment was the most important thing to them. And you'll always know when you have a Campbell coastal interview view, you won't interview them, they'll interview you, because the environment is the most important thing to them. So if you'd like to have a copy of this, richardflint.com, and we'll send you a copy of this article, and my gift to your people.

Mick Spiers: 21:35

Thank you, Richard, I'd love to do that. And then put it in the show notes. What you're saying is really resonating with us. And you're 100%, right about the camels and the 100%. Right about the culture and the environment that you're setting. What I want to ask you about as an expert in human behavior, because we've spoken about this on the show before, never quiet. Now, this one I'm going to say, I'm going to say that spectator behavior is something that builds up over time by not addressing it early. So people are avoiding those confronting conversations and it builds up and it builds up and it builds up and it builds up. And it may or may not get to the point of a big explosion one day where they finally let them have it. But why do people keep on avoiding those conversations for so long, that the water level has row has risen to the point of unacceptability before they'll do anything? Why do human beings avoid those conversations so vehemently when if they addressed it early, it won't actually be a minor issue to begin with? That we've avoided it until it's become a tsunami.

Richard Flint: 22:35

There's a few reasons why you do this. Number one, that person in the leadership role is not a leader, they are a participant, and participants don't confront, they appease, okay. And number two is a lack of training. Most people call themselves literally have just been thrown into the position. And they're really not given what they need to know, is because and I hope your listeners understand this, Mick, you are two things, you are a person, which is what I see. But you're also a personality, which I experience and the challenges, I see you as a person, but I don't work to understand you as a personality. And if I don't understand your personality, I don't know how to work with you. You know, it goes back to a program. We do call it a day at the zoo. And it's a comparative study of 18 animals and the personalities that people you have to work with every day. Because you got to be three things in that leadership role. You got to be a manager, you have to be a disciplinarian, and you have to be a coach. And you have to know which hat to wear with which person. But most leaders are so busy doing two things, fighting fires they didn't create, which are started by the spectators are the second thing is they are so exhausted with everything that's thrown at them, that they don't feel they have the strength or the time to do the job they need to do. And there's an epidemic in our world today among leadership, Mick and it's a burning fire. And that what I'm seeing today is most people as a leader, they're either fatigued, or they're tired. And when I'm fatigued, or I'm tired, I'm just an existence. I'm not doing the job I need to do. And that's basic because of the design of the environment. You take me to any company that is struggling. And I'll show you there are four things that are making them struggle, inconsistencies, inefficiencies, non partnership people, the spectators, and then tired leadership. These are the four things that keep leadership from being able to function as the leader, and every one of these are controlled by the spectators.

Mick Spiers: 24:37

In one way or another, I think you're right. I want to double down on that. It is exhausting. First of all, I want to say that there's a lot of people listening to the show that will say, you know, I do work in a zoo, Richard. So that zoo metaphor is going to work with many people. It is exhausting to deal with the spectators and here's a call to action for leaders out there. Think about you can do a time log, do a timesheet or record how much time you're spending, mopping up the damage that a spectator has done. And then imagine what you could do with that time if you didn't have to deal with it anymore. So address the behavior or move them on or move them on.

Richard Flint: 25:13

Take it deeper, just a little bit who's bringing you your problems? The problems come from the spectators, sponges come to you seeking information. Candles come to you looking for priests because we forget about the candles, spectators come to you, because they know how to get to you early in the day. I mean, you show up at work, you walk in, you're going to have a good day. And I will send here's one of the spectators, they look at you and go, Hey, Mick, we got a problem. And what that does is that there sucks the whole day out of the spectator, some of the most intelligent people you'll ever meet. And there's one more thing that we learned about him. And so many companies, they don't do cross training. So you got a spectator in this job here, and they're the only one that can do it. So you're afraid to fire him, because no one can do that job. Or the other thing, you're struggling in Australia, just like we are here in the States, it's hard to find people today, people don't want to work, they want to be paid.

Mick Spiers: 26:09

Yeah, they've become a prima donna, because they've realized that you need them in some way. And then they start acting that way. And what I'm gonna say is what I see Richard is catastrophization, there might be a pebble of truth in the issue that they've brought to you. But by the time they've brought it to you, it's been amplified to the point where you can't ignore it. But when you get into it, you can just exhausting straining, this is powerful.

Richard Flint: 26:35

And I play psychologist with you for it.

Mick Spiers: 26:37

Yeah, please.

Richard Flint: 26:38

For that I am. Here's what happens is that because so many people who call themselves a leader have never been trained, they're also very fearful. They're immature, and they don't understand that when something becomes a problem, you cannot resolve it, you can appease it, the only time you and I can solve an issue is when it's a concern. And a concern is something I see that could cause us to become dysfunctional in some way. So I'm going to gather the people together, and I'm going to ask them, I have a concern. So what can we do to resolve because in most companies, when you bring the right people together, you got collective genius, and they can do it. But if I avoid it, and I don't deal with it, it becomes a problem. A problem is an emotional situation that you can't see the doorway out of, because it's driven by emotions.

Mick Spiers: 27:31

Really powerful, Richard and the call to action I want to give right now to leaders is to think about that. Who are your camels? Are you looking after your camels? How are you praising your camels? Who are your spectators? And what are you doing to manage this? And what are you doing to nurture your sponges, so that's a call to action there, for sure. And stop avoiding those confronting conversations to address it's going to pay dividends once you have nipped in the bud. And it's going to be an anchor around your neck, whenever you have an address to want to come back to something we started with Richard, and it's about your mother. And it's about what we hold on to that might be holding us back. Now. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say for a moment in time in your life, you needed your mother to drive that some of that behaviors just so that you could become the person you've become. But then you had that moment where you let it go, the moment where she grabbed those car keys, and she drove off, you're able to let that go. And then blossom. Right. Tell us more about this thing. I think it happens all the time people hold on to these beliefs or whatever it may be. And that is the very thing that's holding them back. How do you get people to develop the awareness of what they're hanging on to, to let it go so that they can grow?

Richard Flint: 28:44

Now, let me take you a little deeper into my life story. So you had three sisters, none of us are real brothers and sisters, all from different families. And I don't know, you know how your audience would feel. But when I was growing up, I never got a birthday cake on my birthday was never celebrate Christmas, I would come down on Christmas morning once my sister's open presents. But there was never anything under the tree with my name on it. And my mother was making a statement to me. You're not here, you're not part of us. And you know what that did with me make? It just made me wanted to prove more to my mother, you are wrong. I'm here, look at me. But yet her avoiding me really sent me into my own form of depression. And again, please, audience listen to this. There are two types of depression. There's depression, that is a chemical imbalance where I need medication. But 97% of all depression is personal. It's me feeling devalued. It's me not feeling important. And it seems to be something that's growing in this country. Today. I am going to use you until I'm done with you. And then I'm going to throw your way. It happens at work. It happens at home. I used to do a lot of marriage counseling. And I used to have couples tell me I'm having them tell me I just don't love him. I don't love her anymore. And I tell him that's a lie. What's happened is this you have just become overwhelmed by what you need from this relationship that you're not being being given. And disappointment is interesting because 95% of every frustration Nick will ever have in his life is because of the disappointment and disappointment is one of the doorways into doubt. And for you and I i The most dangerous emotion we deal with in life is doubt. Because you can't doubt without worrying. And when doubt and work come together on a worry come together, they create the feeling of uncertainty. I was asked the other day on a podcast I was doing, what do you see as the number one word people are struggling with today? Uncertainty, uncertainty, because trust and truth are missing today. Can you trust the leader? Do you respect the leader? Are they someone you want to follow? And as a leader, and you know, you were asking me this before we come on the air to define success. And success to me is creating a positive presence that has presence when you're not present. That's what a real leader is, they don't have I had a guy one time tell me because we do a series of small group retreats. And he said, I'd love to come to your retreat. But he said, Man, I can't be away from my company, it'll fall apart, why I'm gone. I said, That's the reason you need to be this retreat, because leaders have a presence of respect. And if I don't respect you, I don't listen to you. I'll hear it. But then I'll define it the way I want it to find. And it's all about leadership, creating a presence. And that presence is what you establish as to who you are, as the leader in the company, again, come back to tell you, most people who think they're illegal, they're not, they're a participant, because they won't confront things when it's a concern. And they won't address the behavior of people. So they give them permission to do whatever it is that person wants to do. And they actually are the leaders in the company.

Mick Spiers: 31:58

But not in a positive way. If they're one of those spectators, the things everything you're talking about there to me rings of different limiting beliefs, whether it's doubts, or lack of validation of my value, or even feeling like either place will fall apart if I'm not around. That's a limiting belief. Two, how do you help people Richard to rewrite the script?

Richard Flint: 32:18

Well, first of all, you have to face it. I mean, I can walk your listeners through what I had to do. First thing I had to do was face what I was struggling with. And that was that you're stupid, you'll never do anything in your life, and you're not someone I would ever love. And what I did make this I would stand in the morning, and I'd stand in front of the mirror and I'd have a yellow legal pad, and I look in that mirror. And I wouldn't leave until I can find one thing about me that I like not loved because I wasn't in a place to understand love. The one thing that I liked about me and I would write it down. And I would do that every morning, I still have that yellow legal pad and every now and then I go and I look at it. But you got to face the fact that you have an issue with yourself. And then number two, you got to admit that it's real. It's not just something you talk about. It's real, and I got to deal with it. And then I've got to commit myself. Now, again, I want to take your listeners down one level, the word commit is an interesting word. Because there are two ways that people commit, they commit with words, or they commit with conviction. And this is where my little phrase behavior never lies comes from is that most people commit with words, but then they contradicted with behavior. And you do that to me, I'm not going to trust you. I'm not going to respect you. And this is one of the challenges again, with people in a leadership role. They say what they're going to do, and they never do it. So how can I trust you? How can I believe in you. So that is that commitment with conviction that this is not whom I want to be, it took me a long time to be able to unravel the emotional struggles that my mother created. When she died, I had to determine, do I go to her funeral? Or do I stay and be with my dad, after everybody leaves, I determined if I went to her funeral, that would be hypocrisy. So I stayed with my dad after everybody left. And for the last five years of his life, he was my very best friend. But you have to determine what it is you want for your life. But to do that, everything starts with facing what you feel about yourself. And you know, attaching it to yesterday, and dealing with the fear that comes with addressing your life. From the day that Nick was born to the day that make dice. He's going to fight six fears, fear of the unknown fear of abandonment, fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of loss, and the big one with young people today, the fear of success. One of those is your number one fear, if you can find your number one fear, you can handle the rest of them. If you've never met your number one fear the other five will eat you alive. I mean, I know there's so much to what we're talking about. And we're just skimming the surface of it.

Mick Spiers: 34:48

I feel like we could do an entire not just day we could do an entire podcast season in everything you're sharing today, Richard, this has been amazing. And this whole thing about the actions the behavior never lies. I want that to be the next call to action for people both personally and as a leader. So your culture in your organization, the values in the organization are not what you say they are. They are a reflection of your behavior. It's your actions that determine what the values and the cultures of the team so it's your actions that mean things and then when I was listening to you, Richard, I was then thinking about I congruence in my own life about does my behavior match the person I want to be? Am I confronting those fears moving past them? And by the way, I was listening to those fears and doing little checkboxes, I have them too. I'm human. I have all of those fears in different degrees. Am I confronting those fears and living the life that I would be proud of congruence? And it's a haven of allies, what is my behavior? What is my behavior as a husband? What is my behavior as a father? What is my behavior as a human being? So there's a reflection, put it up the mirror to yourself in your own life? Are you living a life that's congruent with the person that you would like to be confronting your fears and moving forward? And then as a leader, it's your behavior that determines the culture in the organization, not what you say, not what you put on an office wall plaque behavior never lies. I love this, Richard, that's another beautiful call to action.

Richard Flint: 36:21

Mick, just one more statement. Here's the big thing for leader, look in the mirror and ask yourself what I work for this person?

Mick Spiers: 36:27

Oh, yeah, great question. All right, we've used up quite a bit of time. But it's been so powerful Richard, and we promised the audience that we'd talk about the house of success in the four rooms, so we'll have to probably condense it a little bit. But tell us about the four rooms for success.

Richard Flint: 36:42

Every one of us have, we live in four rooms, there's the business room, which is our number one room or mental stress, there is the family room, which is the number one room of emotional stress. There's your social room, which is your playing room, and everybody has to have a playroom. But most people are so busy today that cut out the playroom. And when you stop playing, you kill the child and you get out. And then the Personal Room is where you go to be by yourself. No one can join you. It's where you go. And every dream you ever have for your life will be born in your personal world. When I work with people in my mentoring program, first thing we got to understand is we got to get there, right, their life arrange correctly, most important room in your life is your Personal Room, there's got to be time for you. Second most important room is your family room. Because if you don't have the support there, everything's going to come apart in the rest of your life, then you have your business room, because that's where most people define yourself. And then you have your social room, which is your playroom. And these rooms are just so important. Because if I asked most men, you know, who are you, they'll define it in their business. If I asked most women who are you able to find it in their family room. And it's just really interesting to listen, and to listen to the pronouns that people use, when people are talking about their life. And everything is a singular pronoun. They're disconnected from the rest of their life, when you have a leader that doesn't talk about weak us, and they're talking about me, they're disconnected. When you have a husband and wife that talks about the singular pronouns, they're disconnected from each other. And when you don't have time to play, you're disconnected from the world that you need, but keeps you able to laugh and to smile and to be happy. And when you don't have that personal room, you don't have you where to go, everything I've ever accomplished with my life has been defined in my personal route, and then acted out in the rest of my life.

Mick Spiers: 38:34

This is really interesting, Richard, I want to unpack that a little bit more on the Personal Room. So you've said that that's the most important one. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say, that's the one that people don't make time for.

Richard Flint: 38:46

Yeah, I mean, if I look at most people's lives, they have a business room, which is overwhelming. And they have a family room that's just joined it. They have a partial of a social room. But it's not a room where they go to play. It's a room today where they go to escape, and then they don't have that personal room. Because we feel guilty we want to spend time with ourselves are tell you the biggest reason people don't have a Personal Room. You can't lie to yourself in the Personal Room. The Personal Room is a room that demands honesty. And if you're not willing to face yourself, you're going to avoid that Personal Room. Because if you can't be honest with yourself, then your life will shut down the creative Saudi did like I mean, they're words that we're racing out of vocabulary today. Accountability, integrity, ethics, respect, trust and truth. We don't like those words. Because what happens, they're self examining. And when I work with people, what we do is we tear their life apart. I mean, most people who work through the coaching programs, they deal with the business part of people's lives, but when I work with a human, we tear their life apart, and we go into those four rooms and we're gonna rearrange your life and get your life in order. Because when your life is in order, you're free to be the creative person that you are. When your life is out of sync. You're always doubting, worrying, and feeling uncertain about your life.

Mick Spiers: 40:08

I'm gonna say, Richard. There's gonna be people listening to this and if they're honest with themselves, there's gonna be a lot of people that resonate with what you just said that their business room is all consuming that their family room is not nurtured that their play room is an escape and their personal room doesn't exist as in avoided, let's say Avoid it not that it doesn't exist. How does someone start? If they are listening to this right now? And they go, Oh, well, that's me. Richard just described my life. How do they start?

Richard Flint: 40:35

Well, first of all, you got to look at your life and be honest about your life, you know, am I hiding in my business room, a lot of people hiding their business room. And what I'm doing is I'm avoiding my family room, because my family room is out of sync. And I'll tell you what, being a person who did a lot of years of marriage counseling, once a couple get out of sync with each other, it's not that they fall out of love with each other, they fall out of love with what the room has become. But you can put it back together. But to do that, what you got to do is you got to first of all have that personal room where you're going to admit what you go through. I tell couples all the time, if you want to build a relationship and make it strong, first of all, have a date night, every week, every couple of days, a date night every week. And you actually need three types of vacations. If you have kids, one where the kids to find the vacation. Second, where it's just a vacation for the couple kids don't go. And then you have a vacation for just for yourself, where you go alone to regroup and rediscover yourself. And to a lot of people, that sounds ridiculous. But if there's no time in your life for you, there's no time for other people. So you've got to get honest with yourself about that. And then you got to ask yourself, how important is my family to me? Am I willing to sacrifice my family for $1? Because that happens a lot. And how important is it that I have fun? Go ahead?

Mick Spiers: 41:52

No, I just wanted to pick on something really interesting there when you said we wouldn't say that we would sacrifice our family for $1. But our actions say something else, if we find ourselves throwing ourselves into the business room at the expense of our family, and there's not $1 At this point, it's many dollars, but we are sacrificing the family room for the sake of dollars, plural. So our actions like if you confront anyone and say, Okay, I'm gonna give you a million dollars, but you never gonna see your family and no one would say yes to that. And yet they'll throw themselves in the business room and work 1416 hour days, some people fall into this trap. Not everyone work a 1416 hour a day at the expense of their family room. So they action said that, even though if you ask them the question, I tell you now, of course I'd never do that behavior never lies.

Richard Flint: 42:39

Well, they will come home out of their business room in the night. They're tired. And the other thing that families need to do if they're that strong, they need to eat meals together, and they put away the toys and all of the computer stuff. You know, I go out to dinner all the time. But I sit there and I watch and people are there and the kids have their little game boys are playing on it and their stuff. Mom and Dad are on their phones. No one's talking. So they're not having a meal together. They're just sharing the table to strangers.

Mick Spiers: 43:06

They coexisting.

Richard Flint: 43:07

Yep.

Mick Spiers: 43:07

Wow. All right. Well, this has been just incredible. I'm going to wrap us up now, but I'm gonna leave us with we're gonna say three chapters here for us to think about and the first chapter was about this, what you don't confront what you don't challenge you're accepting and think about these camels, spectators and sponges and address it, stop ignoring it. You're impacting the camels, you're impacting the spongers address the spectators, you must confront what is holding you back as a business as a person. The second one is behavior never lies. Think about that, in your business. Think about that, in your personal life. Are you living a life that's congruent with the person you want to be? Your behaviors in the workplace, setting the behavior and values expectations that you would like to see in the business? And then the third one, think about your life? And think about your business room, your family room, your playroom? And are you avoiding your Personal Room? And think about whether you've got these things in balance are not? Are you just like Richard just said, You're spending so much time in the business room that your family room, you're just exhausted anyway? And is your playroom, just escapism? And how do you bring balance and make sure you make time for yourself. So you work on yourself for yourself, because then when you do that, you're going to be ready for the other rooms, you're going to be ready to be an active contributor that matters to other people in those other rooms if you've spent the time in yourself. So that's the three chapters I want you all to reflect on today. Richard, this has just been amazing. I've grown so much in the last 55 minutes, I know the audience will as well. I want to take us to the four questions that we ask all of our guests. And I'm very sorry to hear what you went through as a young man, by the way, but I'm so glad that you came through the other end. And now you help so many other individuals with their lives and understanding human behavior and their own behavior for that matter. So thank you, but now I'm really curious. What's the one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Richard Flint: 45:03

That well, one thing is that not all people are totally honest with you. You need to be able to believe trust and have faith in yourself. Live from the inside out, not the outside in and every day. Strengthen your belief, your trust and your faith in yourself so that you understand this is my life to design and don't give it away to someone else to control.

Mick Spiers: 45:24

That's really nice. That's one second and take control of your own life and let go of things. Let go of those people in your life that are toxic. Stop letting them rule your life and start ruling your own life. I love it. What's your favorite book?

Richard Flint: 45:38

Well, I'm gonna give you two, one that I've written entitled, I need a light. And it's about how to discover what the right place is for you. And when do you step on that stage in your life? And the other one was a book that was a turning point with me. And that was Richard Bach's book, Jonathan Livingston, Seagull, and about freedom, and about not being stuck on the beach in life.

Mick Spiers: 46:00

I love it. All right, very good, Richard. Next one is what's your favorite quote?

Richard Flint: 46:05

My favorite quote is mine. I want to live every day with a positive light, that creates a presence that is present when I'm not present, that drives me every single day of my life.

Mick Spiers: 46:15

That's really resonated a lot with me this present when I'm not present, and speaks a lot about who we are, and whether we're having a meaningful impact on those around us. I really love it, Richard, thank you for sharing that. And finally, just like I said, before, this has been really incredible experience for me listening to you and thinking about my own life, my own leadership, and the direction that I'm heading. I know there's going to be people listening in the audience that go, wow, this is really resonated with me, I need more of this. How do people find you and take advantage of your either your books, your seminars, the coaching all of these things that you do?

Richard Flint: 46:52

Well, there are two places they can go Mick one is my website is richardflint.com. And on there is a list of everything we're doing our small group retreats, the next one's coming up in January in our themes, sharpening your listening skills. And then next summer, we're doing an Alaskan cruise as one of our retreats. And the other is what I've spent the last five years of my life working on is called SuccessHouse.co. And this is an eight module course for 16 weeks, where I'm going to take you through, and we're going to look at what leadership really is, from every vantage point, including there's for those four rooms that you'd like, including what makes a company dysfunctional, including why people won't adapt, adjust and align yourself. And it's all gonna start with what Foundation are you standing on as a leader, don't worry, uncertainty, belief, trust and faith. So either richardflint.com, or SuccessHouse.co. And I can send you to me, this is a by invitation only program, there's a video there all the information. And if you're interested book a 30 minute call with me. And I'll either accept you into the program, or I will tell you, you're not ready for it. I play no games with anybody. I am upfront on the table. And there are days that people hate me their days, they love me, but that's their choice. But the deeper someone gets into your life to help you, the more challenging is to let him in further into your life. So richardflint.com, or successhouse.co, I'd love to hear from and if they would like a copy of that article on you can't feed them. If you don't know, richard@richardflint.com.

Mick Spiers: 48:22

Brilliant, Richard. We'll put those links in the show notes. I know people will take advantage of that this has been just unbelievable. Richard, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for sharing so openly your own life story and giving us your wisdom and insights in such actionable insights where people can go and actually look in the mirror and think about all of the things that Richard has shared with you today and put it into action. Behavior never lies, put it into action. Thank you so much, Richard, this has been amazing.

Richard Flint: 48:50

Mick, let me come back sometime. I'd love that. I'd love to come back with your audience.

Mick Spiers: 48:53

And we would love that too. Let's do it.