151. Leadership Journey with Therese 'Sei' Spiers

Today’s special guest is our very own Therese 'Sei' Spiers. Sei is the co-founder of The Leadership Project.  We are now three years and 150 episodes in, and Sei has been there every step of the way.

In today’s episode, we hear about Sei’s journey to become the leader and thought leader she is today. She shares her journey from quiet introvert to thought leader on LinkedIn with close to 10,000 followers.

Sei and Mick openly share leadership lessons learned from the TLP journey that include:
• The importance of deep listening and active listening
• The multiplication impact of thought leadership on social media and LinkedIn
• Inclusion and inclusive leadership
• Empowerment and being an empowering leader
• Glasser’s Choice Theory
• The difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset
• The competence–confidence cycle
• Differences between extroverts and introverts
• An introvert’s leadership superpowers
• Breaking through limiting beliefs
• Being vulnerable and authentic as a thought leader on social media

🌐 Connect with Sei:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theresespiers/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seispiers/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/seimcalibo15
• Email: sei@mickspiers.com

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:26

Hey everyone and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I've got a real treat for you today. I'm going to be joined by my dear wife, Sei or Therese Spiers, as many of you would know her from LinkedIn and the thought leadership that she does there. We are excited to share this episode with you. It's a little bit of a celebration and a marked occasion, because we are now 150 episodes into the show and we've been on this journey together. So today we're going to unpack a little bit about how Sei feels about that journey and what she's learnt along the way. So, Sei, without any further ado, thank you so much for joining me today. We are now three years in with The Leadership Project Podcast. We're deep into season four, more than 150 episodes published. How do you feel about the journey that we've been on?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 1:18

All right. Thank you so much, Mick, for having me in the show, and thank you again. Anyway, I feel so amazing on doing this, The Leadership Project podcast. For three years, we've already, I mean, almost quit, but here we are now. All of the things that happened with us and then thank you so much again for doing this with me. It's been a long plan on doing this podcast. I feel so anxious and nervous about something else. My hands are freaking sweaty, but anyway I'm going to be here.

Mick Spiers: 1:53

No need to be anxious, you are wonderful communicator, Sei. Just relax and be yourself and this is going to be fine. Now you did say that hasn't all been smooth sailing. There are times that we almost stopped. What did you learn from that?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 2:07

One of the learnings that I've learned for the whole time that we've been here is listening to each other, because we are listening to the words but not listening to the thoughts of those words or phrases. It's like confirmation bias, like something else that, okay, you listen, and then you need to confirm if you really listen to the words. The second one is to be vulnerable, like if something's happened with the business and with you, you really need to let me know on something else, or I'm going to let you know on something else, because this business is not going to work if we don't have much communication.

Mick Spiers: 2:45

So it's been a big lesson learned for me as well, Sei. So around the confirmation bias, about catching times where I've only been hearing what I want to hear and I haven't been hearing the things that contradict what I want to hear, and if we're not doing that check-in with each other, that's really important. And the second part is the openness. The openness to say, yeah, I'm struggling with this aspect right now. We're a partnership, we're a great team, by the way, and we've come through this stronger and more resilient but we need to be able to be open with each other in all aspects of the podcast, of our life, of our family, to be really open with each other and make sure that we're sharing, and then, when we're listening, to make sure that we're caring, and we're caring to make sure that we understand what's really being said. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 3:29

Yeah, it's true, Mick, and then additional ones. It's about the communication with each other. Many people, or many couples I mean are failing to do this business, or even their relationship, because they're not listening to that thought or phrase. It means the confirmation bias that we're talking about. Am I right about that?

Mick Spiers: 3:49

Yeah, absolutely, and I'm guilty of it. I'm sitting here, I teach people about leadership, I teach about listening, but I'm human being too. I make mistakes, and I've certainly made this mistake with you a few times, and I'm looking to learn from that and get stronger and not give up just go OK. Yep, I'm owning it, having the accountability to say, yeah, I stuffed up and then doing something about it, taking action.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 4:12

Yeah, and I think what I've learned as well with you, or the way we've been talking to each other, it's because, ok, I am the wife and you are the principal and founder of our organization or our company. It's like, whatever you say to us, it's going to be you, but of course you've learned about that anyway. On those previous years it's like, ok, you are listening to me, but there's something else that you wanted to listen or hear about those words. But anyway, I'm very proud of what you have become for those couple of years, especially last year and then this year, although we are only on the February month. I'm very proud of what you have become on those things, because if you didn't listen to me or I mean me as well we're not going to be able to have the leadership project already.

Mick Spiers: 5:04

I'm a human being and I've learned a lot and I've grown a lot in this time. And thank you, thank you, for always being there for me. You're far more than just my wife. You're my partner. You're my partner and everything. And I got myself into a cycle where I was only hearing what I wanted to hear. It was like an echo chamber of what I wanted to hear rather than what you were really trying to tell me. So and thank you, thank you for your patience, thank you for your resilience, and here we are, season four, 150 episodes, loving every moment. And thank you. I'll always be grateful for everything that you've done for TLP, for me, for our family, for our whole team. Thank you so much. I'm curious to know, on that TLP journey, who's been your favorite guest?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 5:46

OK, I don't want to be biased, so I'm just going to say that I don't have favorite guest. Because if I'm going to say I do have favorites, I'm going to say, oh my god, how about me? This guest? I'm going to say, how about me? How about me? I did a lot of. So I'm going to be very straightforward about that. My favorite guests are the ones who are really supported us a lot, sharing on their social media accounts their episode. Because you know, it's not just about us, it's about them, it's about building their credibility or building their branding. Because if they're the ones who share their leadership, their insights and whatever they have on their brains and they're not going to share it to the world on their social media accounts, and then it's like you're hindering your thoughts, you're hindering something else for the other people to know about you and to know about what you have. So I'm very about this. Sorry about that guest.

Mick Spiers: 6:50

I'm going to reflect on that a little bit. It's really powerful what you're saying. I'm going to start with who my favorites are, without naming them as well, and then build on what you're saying. So my favorite guests are the ones that come with a clear message to share, ones that get us to stop, reflect and rethink something about leadership and give us a call to action, give us some really insightful tip that we can go and immediately put into practice in our leadership. So the very practical ones.

Mick Spiers: 7:15

What I'm hearing from you is, then it doesn't stop just there at the interview. It's also helping support the show by telling people hey, I was on this interview and here's the podcast, because that's what, where the multiplication impact comes. We're having these conversations because we believe that they're the conversations that need to be had, but if it only gets to a small circle of people, it doesn't have the impact, whereas the network effect and LinkedIn is perfect for this I've got certain connections, you've got certain connections. Then a guest comes in with their connections and, before you know it, we've got a sharing network where the conversation that needs to be had is getting into the ears that need to hear it. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 7:57

Yeah, that's perfect, Mick. One thing that I'm thinking about is also are these guests a little bit shy on sharing to their social media accounts, especially on their LinkedIn? Because if they're going to be shy, why do they do this podcast interview anyway? You wanted to share it to the other people what are your thoughts are? But if you're gonna shy and you're having this fraud feeling or imposter syndrome, why? It's like, why you're not sharing it?

Mick Spiers: 8:26

Yeah, it's interesting. Authors suffer from that as well, like they'll write a book and they're too shy to tell their friends and their broader network that they write a book. But I can tell you that when you tell people that you reach back to people that you haven't seen in 20 years and say, hey, I've published a book, they're usually really interested, proud. They're very happy to hear from you. There's nothing to be shy about in this regard. Our guests we hand select them. They've got something interesting to share and they should be proud of that. Get past the imposter syndrome and start the conversation with people that need to hear the conversation. Really powerful say I want to go to leadership lessons now. We've had many different thought leaders come onto the show. You've been on this journey with me for three years. You didn't know a lot about leadership before this journey. What's been your biggest learnings about leadership in that time?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 9:17

Okay, I think my biggest lesson is to be on inclusivity inclusive and to be empowered on what you're sharing or what you're doing. I've been doing this inclusive things for the team anyway and then empowering them on what they can do for us and for TLP. I think those are just the ones that I've learned about this, the leadership project.

Mick Spiers: 9:42

Really good say. I mean that's. The heart of leadership is that everyone wants to be seen, everyone wants to be heard, everyone wants to feel that they matter and everyone wants to feel like they have some say or some control in their destiny. This is the heart of what we call glass as choice theory the freedom of choice and the freedom from oppression. When people do feel included, when they feel seen, when they feel heard, and then they feel empowered, that's when they go and do amazing things. So I love that you've picked that up. That's to me, that is the root of leadership. There's all kinds of skills and techniques that you need to learn around that, but the heart of it is to help people feel seen, heard and that they matter. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 10:24

Okay, I'm also gonna add something else about that. It's about learning so many skills for the leadership project. So I did lots of things already for us, for our team, doing this website, doing digital marketing. It's about don't stop learning. So, behind those post-says on the leadership project, it's not just about you, it's not about our team as well, it's also about me. It's a collaborative learning between our team, because that's the good about the leadership project Asking them about what we can put in the leadership project, because if it's just the two of us, there are moments that we're just gonna lack of, you know, thoughts already. There are moments that we just don't have anything to share. So that's the thing as well with the leadership project Sharing, or asking them what we can do in the next few weeks or next few days.

Mick Spiers: 11:18

Really good to say. I'm gonna share back with you some of the important things I picked up there. First of all is the difference between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. So you and the team, when you're faced with something you've never done before, a fixed mindset would say, oh, I don't know how to do it, and wouldn't even try. A growth mindset would be I don't know how to do that yet and I'm gonna go and learn how to do it. And by learning you build confidence, you build competence and it turns into a virtuous cycle where all of a sudden you get better and better at that craft.

Mick Spiers: 11:49

The second part is that inclusive nature and the diversity of thought. To not imagine for a second that two of us have got the answer to every question. So, asking the team we bring a team together on purpose, for a reason. What ideas do you have? What video would you like to see us do this week? What's the next thing that we should be trying when it comes to promoting the podcast as an example? So that's really powerful around the diversity of thought. And then that then multiplies into one of my favorite quotes and I have two favorite quotes that I bounce between. But is if you want to go fast, you go alone. If you want to go far, you go together, and TLP is the perfect example of that. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 12:31

That's perfect me. That's really awesome. With that TLP and then adding to that as well, what I've learned is I'm also learning from our experience, which is you've already told it just a few minutes ago I'm learning so much. With all of the experiences, it's like, okay, if it's not going to work, okay, it's fine. That's what's happening with us, and I really love learning from experiences as well, with TLP, and learning from you. Thank you for mentoring me and coaching me with TLP. That's one of the things that I'm going to be proud of that. How is it having a husband who is a coach, a leader, so intelligent, smart?

Mick Spiers: 13:11

Yeah, but don't forget, we learn from each other. I don't think that's all one-sided. I learn from you every day as well, but, thank you, but we learn from each other every day. I want to unpack that journey a little bit. Now, your personal journey. If I look at you, over the last three years you've gone from, I'm going to say, very smart, very charming person who didn't communicate much to the outside world to now being a thought leader on LinkedIn, in our chair B&I meetings, and you're an emcee and you write these wonderful newsletters and blogs on leadership every week or every few weeks that people are really getting great joy from. Tell us about your personal transformation from, sorry to say it, shy, introverted and there's no issue with being introverted, by the way, but you know what I'm saying You're very withdrawn and within yourself to now being master communicator.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 14:06

If we're going to do this podcast interview last year, I think I'm just going to say no, because I can't communicate. My public speaking skills is not really good, you know that, and I just wanted to write something else. That okay. If this one is incorrect, I can just edit it. We'll write it again. But here I'm speaking in front of you through this microphone. I don't know. I don't know what's happening with me. It's like every time you're talking about something else it's just going to blast on my mouth. I'm just going to speak in front of you.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 14:36

I think that's also one of the things I learned, also on TLP to share what's on my brain. I think one of the reasons I don't want other people to just say negative things about me, because I don't want to receive negative criticisms If something you know, if people are going to listen to this one oh my God, say it's not really a good English speaker why it should be a guest to TLP or the Leadership Project podcast. Those are the things that I've been still thinking about the couple of days. I feel so anxious what I'm going to say, what I'm going to share. I only have a three years of leadership experience and then my husband has a 30 years. Some of the guests has a couple of years of experience on their leadership. Their brains are just so good on picking up those questions the way they talk to. And then I was like, oh me here, how about me?

Mick Spiers: 15:31

I'm not really cool, but here you are here, you are sharing and you've got people liking your posts. They're following you, they want to hear from you. So I am hearing and I can see the emotion on your face right now. I am hearing a deep concern about what other people would think, and yet you've broken through that barrier. So posting on social media of any form and wondering about trolls, wondering about people that are going to make negative comments, but you've broken through that and you're publishing, I think every week right now, really insightful content that people are sharing and going oh, thank you so much. So you broke through that. You broke through that and I'm proud of you. Tell me more about these negative thoughts Sorry to go there for a bit this limiting belief about what other people think of the content. Tell me more about how that impacts you.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 16:21

So I'm very shy to write down some of my thoughts and post it on LinkedIn. But then I am thinking about if I'm not going to share those things on the other people. It's just going to limit me on what I can share with the other people. And then, with these negative thoughts, negative things you know I can accept the negative things from strangers because I can just delete it. But then if people around me one of the closest friends or families are going to give me negative feedbacks or negative comments, it feels like, okay, I'm not going to think about that, but in the next few days or weeks I'm going to think about that because what happened? Why do they say those things about me? And then I'm going to share with you that it's because of the community that I've grown up, that whatever you do really good, they're just going to say negative things about you. It's like for 100 or let's say, 99% of the things that you did good, 1% of that they're still going to share something else negative. That's very bad.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 17:25

And what I've realized with social media, everything I've noticed that it's not just about my community or my world that I had before Experiencing, that it's all around the world, lots of people, which is the good thing about that. On social media, everyone else was just saying okay, say, it's not just about you experiencing those things, it's also about us. And then I said, yeah, I thank you for social media as well, because the moment that we posted something else and then sharing it, people will comment good things. So they say thank you for sharing this. It's so amazing. So thank you for sharing something else for us, because it's about you and for us as well.

Mick Spiers: 18:06

So there's a few things I want to pick up on there say and the last bit is really important, and that is yes, you're going to have people out there saying negative comments. It does happen. It happens to high profile celebrities through to people just sharing their thoughts on social media. You've got nearly 10,000 followers and those followers have followers and those followers have followers Like, it's a big network out there. And with those 10,000 followers, you're going to have 9,990 of them. They're going to be getting value for what you're sharing openly and vulnerability and authentically.

Mick Spiers: 18:42

And yes, you might have 10 people that might say negative comments, but why let those 10 negative comments get in the way of the other 9,990 that are getting value from the comment? That's the first thing I want to tell you. The second one is when someone makes a negative comment like that and I'm talking negative comment, I'm talking trolls, I'm talking about cynical comments, I'm not talking about constructive criticism, because constructive criticism adds value to the conversation. It says, oh, that's really interesting. Say, have you thought about X? That's value-adding, that's a yes-and situation, whereas the trolls and the ones that just say nasty comments. What I want to share with you is it speaks more about their character than it does yours. So why let 10 insecure people because it's usually from insecurity why let 10 insecure people upset your day when you've helped 9,990 others? That's what I want to share with you today. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 19:39

Okay. I think it's also because of what I said before, it's the community that I grow up with, that you know everything that you did good before and there will still negative things and it's going to impact you the way you grow up. That's very bad. And then I think what I've been doing right now is to you know, denying it In denial. Okay, whatever you do, whatever you post on social media or comment, to me it's nothing else. It's nothing to me, because what's important is the two of us, and then I'll both tell us those are the people that I'm thinking about.

Mick Spiers: 20:17

There's a powerful lesson there as well. Around stoicism, say, and this is in stoicism. The heart of it is that not to worry about things that are not in our control, but to only focus on the things that are in our control. One of the things that is in your control is how you respond to a troll. What is not in your control is their behavior, so you can't control their behavior. You can only control how you respond to it, and that's what I see you doing these days.

Mick Spiers: 20:42

The other thing I want you to think about and the audience, the psychology of this tells us that when you get these say nasty, insecure people that say nasty things for them, they've forgotten about it 30 seconds later. The person that they hurt can carry it around for seven, 14, 21, 28 days. You're still thinking about it some way down the track and in doing so, you're allowing them, you're empowering them to impact your day. You're empowering them to have that impact on you mentally because you're carrying it around. So what is the best advice that you could give anyone on this?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 21:19

Oh, my God, because there are still some people around me, or even before, when they said something else negative. It's still on my mind. But I think it's to be surrounded by really good people and just the people around you, because I don't have much friends already, as in today, I only have a few people around me that you're just going to count it into my fingers because through the journey, those people will just going to leave you. It's like if they're going to say, it's fine, if they're going to leave you, it's okay. So surround yourself with positive people and then, if they do not, just let them go.

Mick Spiers: 21:57

Very good, Okay. So I'm going to remind you of something Ivan Meisner taught us when he was on the show, and that was to imagine that that inner circle is a one-way door, that once someone is in your life, they're in your life. So surround yourself with people that are going to not attack you, that they're going to be positive, they're going to be constructive I think there's something there and those that aren't, let it go. Let it go. I can't sing, Okay. So I want to circle back to the bit about confidence and about communication. So, as mentioned, like three years ago, you were very shy in meetings, didn't speak up a lot. Now to the point where you run all of the TLP meetings, you chair B&I meetings, you come up with these amazing ideas for engaging questions at the start of meetings to get everyone, like ice breakers that really get everyone going. How did you do that? How did you go from zero to master of ceremonies?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 22:52

Okay, I'm just going to make it as a joke, Like I don't have any choice.

Mick Spiers: 22:58

Necessity, all right, necessity, yes, sometimes the mother of innovation. So, yeah, okay, go so okay, the two things.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 23:07

It's the mindset shift and the skill set shift. I think it's because, on my mindset, I really need to do something else for TLP and for this B&I, because if I'm not going to do something else, nothing's going to happen. And then second one is these skills. It's like something's just happened to me. I've learned a lot every day or every week on doing these meetings. My confidence is getting too high. I've been doing lots of research on how can I possible do or gain more confidence, and I think, because of the affirmations as well, with the people around me that who say you're such a really good on doing this and we miss your voice or your love when you're not in the meeting I really miss the learnings that you're putting onto our meetings. So those are the things.

Mick Spiers: 23:59

Really good. I'm going to unpack two things there. I'll quickly talk about the mindset first, and what I saw in what you were saying and I've seen it with my own eyes as well is the focus on the needs of the audience. That is not about you, it's about them. What do they need? You use the word necessity, so you saw a gap. You've filled the gap, but you're focused on the needs of the audience, not about you.

Mick Spiers: 24:23

The second then is the skill set and what we call in psychology the competence confidence cycle. And this is where you start small and it goes well, and you get a bit of confidence from it and you go again and as you get more confident, you get more competent. As you get more competent, you get more confident and it just keeps on building. Whereas if you're the type of person where the very first time you ever emcee a meeting, it goes horribly. If you give up and have a fixed mindset and say, well, I'm just not good at chairing meetings and you never try again, you never get into the cycle. That's what I say. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 25:00

That's very good, mick. I think I'm going to add something else as well with this confidence things, because if I'm going to be just what they said before, I'm not going to be confident like this. I've just learned about this one and on the back of my mind, because I'm an introvert, so I've been giving that of my energies and everything that I can put in under meeting and after that it's raining me, but because of that, so many people are putting something else with them. It's giving them additional confidence because they're going to think hey, I thought you're called introvert. How do you possible do that? Yes, I'm introvert and I'm showing you that I'm introvert, can also be a confident and can also show something else for you as well.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 25:46

If you're going to say I'm very shy, I'm not going to be able to do this VP, I can't do this anymore. I'm not a really good speaker, I'm very scared on speaking in English. Oh no, it's very fine, this is how you're going to do it. Practice every day, practice on what you can do. Lots of practice. Anyway, I think I'm just very thankful that I've been doing this lots of meetings, because if I'm not, I'm not going to be able to be a communicator right now.

Mick Spiers: 26:16

I love this say on two different levels. Let me unpack it a little. First of all is the assumptions that people make about people. So if you see someone commanding presence on stage, oh it must be an extrovert. Or you see someone quietly introspective in the corner must be an introvert. That's not the definition of extrovert and introvert. Introvert and extrovert is about how you gain energy. Do you gain energy from people or does it drain you when you're around big crowds of people and you need to recharge your batteries in other way? So the first one is to stop making assumptions about whether someone's an introvert or an extrovert.

Mick Spiers: 26:51

Simon Sinek is a well-regarded public speaker, keynote speaker. He's an introvert. He's mastered the craft, doesn't mean that you can't do it and has got nothing to do with introversion or extroversion. The second one is people. That's how only extroverts make good leaders. Absolutely not true. Absolutely not true and this is something I've got to work on as an extrovert is to learn some of the craft of introversion, because some of the same skills that you have for a leader are the things that introverts are good at. What are introverts good at? They're good at listening. They're good at deeply listening. They're good at understanding. What are the attributes of a leader? The ability to listen, to deeply listen, to connect with your staff One-on-one. There's a lot of science that tells you that the very things that introverts are good at are leadership attributes. How do you feel about that?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 27:42

Yes, that's correct me, and that's one of the reasons why I really like Simon Sinek, because I've learned from him. I learned that he's an introvert leader. That's the reason why I wrote about something else that introverted leader and an additional ones. Introvert leaders are one of the best leaders, because it's not about just listening to the words, it's about the action, because there are words that it feels like okay, I'm just gonna speak, but how you? The money reasons? I'm also looking at those people, the money reason, the eye Contact that they're doing. It's not just about listening to the words, it's about the next year.

Mick Spiers: 28:22

This is an interesting point and that's around awareness, strengths and I'll loosely say weaknesses, but I'll be careful with where I say that. So the awareness, first of all, of what are your strengths, so you can double down on those strengths. And there's a lot of science that tells you that doubling downs on on your strengths Is actually even more important than addressing your weaknesses. But when you do have a weakness or something that you want to work on, it then takes intentional work to work on it. So for me and let's compare you and I here for a moment I had to intentionally work on deep listening, because I'm an extrovert and I like to be the center of attention, I like to be the party, I like all of those things. I had to focus on deep connection and deep listening.

Mick Spiers: 29:07

You're an introvert. It didn't come naturally to you to do things like extemporaneous speaking, which I find the most natural thing in the world. You had to work on it. So I'm in cynic, had to work on it. And now look at you. So it's a lot of people say that you do need to double down on your strengths but also Selectively work on your weaknesses. How does that sit with you, your thoughts?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 29:28

Because an introvert person can't do everything anyway. So I need to be, write down my skills, write down what are my weakness, my strengths, everything. If these are my weakness, I'm gonna try to work it out, make something else, but if not, it's fine. At least I've tried it. But then that's what I said. There is a practice for doing those things anyway. Being introvert it's something on us so that you know we are very good on doing this, listening something else for us, etc.

Mick Spiers: 30:03

So what I'm hearing this I is is yeah, work on your weaknesses a little bit at a time, and if there's something that you're genuinely not good at, you can surround yourself with people that are good at that skill.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 30:14

Yeah, that's correct.

Mick Spiers: 30:16

All right, very good now. I want to take us now to this thought leadership on LinkedIn. You are now a thought leader on LinkedIn. Have you got any tips for people that are listening to this, who also are aspiring Thought leaders on LinkedIn? How do they get going?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 30:31

Okay, what happened to me a year back is I just posted something that it made viral and then I've had this Massive following already on link M. And then what happened to me that day? I just wanted to post it something else and that's it. What's happening to me in the past few days is, if I do have something on my mind, reflect and write it down and post in on LinkedIn. I've not actually posting or doing something on social media calendar because it's not gonna work. I've did that before and then what? My thoughts right now should be posted out of this moment today or tomorrow. It's like a past already. It's just gonna be an opinion of what I've had before. I'm not gonna feel the essence or authenticity If I'm just gonna post it as scheduling on LinkedIn. So I really noticed it to me. So what you feel right now, that's it. Just post it on LinkedIn. Be authentic. Be authentic on what you can post on LinkedIn.

Mick Spiers: 31:30

So that's the key word I'm hearing is around authenticity. But what I'm also picking up there say is that you're not one of these ones that it's Prescheduling a month worth of content on LinkedIn, because then it's not authentic, it's not genuinely how you feel, think and do on that day. So you know you might be setting some time aside to do LinkedIn tomorrow, for example, but you're not writing tomorrow's content until tomorrow and you're sharing authentically what you're thinking, feeling, reacting to news of the world, other posts, etc. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 32:06

Yeah, that's correct me, because I'm actually not really a hundred percent good writer. I'm writing but I don't feel that I'm really good, because if I'm just gonna post something else, make it very, very good, it feels like all the people will just kind of think that, okay, she can write really good. How about speaking in front of the other people? That's the first thing that I'm just thinking about, and then the second one if I'm gonna just kind of write to have a massive Following, it's not gonna be authentic already. It's just gonna be something else that feels scripted when you are writing. And then what I felt about thinking or any social media accounts Be authentic. And it's really good to be vulnerable at times that you don't have anything to write and then you just post something else so the two aspects that I'm hearing is the timeliness and then that it's not Manipulative.

Mick Spiers: 33:00

I'm gonna go the opposite now. Instead of going authentic, instead of chasing vanity metrics of I'm gonna post something today Because it's gonna get a big reaction, you're not doing that. You're posting things from the heart going. You know what this really impacted me and this is what I think about it. So last week you did a wonderful post, a newsletter, about Gender pay inequality, and it was from the heart. And guess what? It was topical because the WGE a put out their latest report last week. So it was timely, it was authentic and it was from the heart. So why do you think people are engaging so much to those posts?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 33:38

I think it's because very timely. That's what they feel. Everyone else, you know it's the connection with the polls. That's what I've been doing on LinkedIn. Many people think that think it is. Only you can just post about business, about what you're doing on something else. Business is scripted, manipulative, but then if you're going to be very focused on what the people feel deep inside of them, You're gonna have a connection with them. You know it's like the diversity of thoughts, diversity of leaders, the vulnerable of okay, sorry about that link and followers. I don't have anything to post here, but I posted something else and then people said, oh, okay, say it's okay Because we don't have anything to post as well. The past couple of days there are moments that it's gonna be. Feel it's okay, do not be okay.

Mick Spiers: 34:30

There's three things I'm picking up here that are really interesting for me. The first one is you're posting things I'm going to say almost with a mindset of, this is how I feel about this and others might feel that way too, which is then the start of the relatability cycle. And then people are reading the post and going oh yeah, that's how I feel too. It's like almost like say knows me, she knows what I'm thinking, she knows what I'm feeling about these things, and that's wrapped in that timeliness matter. So it's got to be timely, or it's already gone past people's recency memory, right, so it's gone if you don't get out there timely. So how do I feel about this? There's a good chance that others will feel about it. Then on the receiving end, are they reading it, going yeah, that is how I feel and all of a sudden you've got connection.

Mick Spiers: 35:16

And then the third one is I'm hearing you say that you don't post just for the sake of posting. You don't go oh wow, I'm overdue to do a post. I better post something, or I don't post something just to stimulate the vanity metrics we were talking about before. So if you got nothing to say that day, it's okay. Just don't say anything that day, wait for the next day and then share how you're feeling, what you're thinking, what you're doing that day. How does that sit with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 35:41

Okay, I'm just going to also have a correction about that If it's on my personal linking account, putting vulnerability as well, whatever I'm going to feel, but of course there are clients that I don't want to be like that. I still wanted to post something else based on our business. Okay, I can post something about that. There will be scheduling bought for my personal wants.

Mick Spiers: 36:03

There's a difference between, let's say, the business post about, let's say, an element of digital marketing versus the thought leader. Vulnerability of this is what I'm thinking, feeling, doing today.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 36:15

And then, when we were talking about posting on social media, I was like, how about posting something else about what you feel, so we can do? We'll never know what's going to happen with your following, because all they see of you is being a leader on this field or you're getting these hindrance hindering you, blocking you. And then you feel like, oh, it's not your time, and then post something else. Post something else to me, it's going to be good on you because it's the connection between you and the audience. It's not because I am a leader of this field, I am a leader of the leadership project. I needed to post something else about leadership, but not being a vulnerable or authentic. And you know, if you're doing something else like that, the audience is going to feel oh, mickey is also suffering on this, having these thoughts, having these things already. You know it's the connection.

Mick Spiers: 37:11

So, thank you. I want to bring us to a close now. I'm going to take us towards our rapid round. The things I want to reflect on so far, and what in terms of what I say? First of all, congratulations on your journey and thank you. Thank you for coming on this journey with me. I've learned a lot from you. We've learned a lot from each other. We've grown together. It's been an incredible journey. I can't wait to see where it goes.

Mick Spiers: 37:32

Next, your personal journey as a leader in that time, the things that you've learned, the competence confidence cycle that you've been through to become the person that you are today. And then, on this thought leadership, this is my big takeaway today Like vulnerable, sharing how you think, feel and do when it comes to you, when it comes, and being natural with that is what builds that relatable connection. I think that's a really powerful one for everyone to take away today. All right, so rapid round. You know those questions. Yes, you hear it every week. What's the one thing you know now that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 38:10

Oh my God, I shouldn't be impulsive on my decisions, because if you're going to learn about me 20 years ago or when I was on 20, I am a job hopper. I'm thinking about something else. Like, I'm just going to quit, I'm not going to think about the next day, I'm not going to think that if I'm going to have a work tomorrow, I'm not thinking about that the moment that I quit, that's it. I'm just going to quit. Anyway, what I've learned on those years is to not be impulsive.

Mick Spiers: 38:40

Okay, very good. So impulsive is one that we all fall into traps of at different times, and it's about not making permanent decisions based on a temporary emotion. On the job hopping thing, it's okay to change jobs from time to time People don't some do, but most don't stick at the same company for 30, 40, 50 years anymore. It is okay to change and grow and to take different opportunities, but not to quit at the first hurdle. Have a bad day, quit my job. Have a bad day, quit my job. That's not going to go well and that's not how you build resilience and learn. So it's a great lesson to share with everyone. Thank you, saiyan. Thank you for being so open about it.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 39:20

Yeah, I'm gonna add about that, because in the Philippines you know the traffic situation there it's gonna take you one to two hours to go to your job and you feel so tired on doing those commute and then coming back it's another one to two hours and right now the Philippines two hours, three hours, four hours of commute. And then second one, it's the salary. I started about 398 pesos per day and I wanted to grow on something. I can't live with 398 pesos and right now if you're going to live on that salary it's not gonna work. It's like 398 pesos, it's like a 12 Australian dollars. So those are the things. And then it feels like you know, that's the reason why I really love the leadership project. It's because you've been learning to be a really good leader. We do have this book. You're a leader. Now, what I didn't learn to be a leader on that time no one teach me how to be a leader. That supposed to do on that year.

Mick Spiers: 40:16

There's two balancing things that I want to make sure that we double down on, and it is about because I said, you know you need to start somewhere. You need to be resilient. You don't give up at the first hurdle. The one exception to that would be when you in a workplace that you're undervalued or treated badly. That's not what I'm talking about. If you're in a workplace where you're undervalued and treated badly, yes, find the door. If that's not the case, if you're in a tolerable workplace and you've got Lessons to learn, you're gonna grow from it. Stick around. That would be my takeaway there. All right, what's your favorite book?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 40:50

Okay, I have my favorite book here. It's from the poor breast driven life. I give you a copy of this one as well.

Mick Spiers: 40:57

I don't know. I don't know if I should be offended by this or not. For those that are listening to the audio podcast, for anyone watching on the video you just saw that for those that are on the audio podcast, I guess I say what is your favorite book? And she has my book Sitting in front of her and underneath that book was Rick Warren's book. All right, tell me about Rick Warren's book. What's impactful for you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 41:22

So it's one on earth. Am I here for what? What's your purpose on this world? It's like a guide from a Bible, so you need to do it every day, which we've already missed out, but I wanted to do it again with you in the next few days.

Mick Spiers: 41:39

It is a great book. There is an element of spirituality and Specific religion in there.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 41:45

To be clear about the underlying message, about finding your purpose is really powerful- And especially if you have Experiencing something else about your mental health and your spiritual thing. This one is really good. Just read this one. It's really good to do it with your partner and if you don't have someone else, it's really fine.

Mick Spiers: 42:07

In fact, the book says that. The book says you should do this with an accountability partner, whether it's your loving partner or another partner, you should do this with an accountability partner. All right, really good, nice share, not insulted at all. All right, what's your favorite quote?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 42:23

Okay, my favorite quote is rejection is just a redirection for something else.

Mick Spiers: 42:30

Yeah, okay, that's good. Sometimes we need to hear that. Sometimes things happen for a reason. We need to make the most of it. It takes intentional action to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented in front of us. But, yeah, don't dwell on rejection. You can move forward. Okay, love it and finally, Sei, there's gonna be people that are hearing your voice for the first time. They've seen your work, but they're hearing your voice for the first time. They want to know more about you, about your journey, about your lessons. How do they get in touch with you?

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 42:58

All right, follow me on my LinkedIn account it's Therese Spiers. You can also look at me at, Sei, Sei Spiers, and then you can also send me an email at sei@mickspiers. com

Mick Spiers: 43:11

All right, brilliant, thank you Sei, and, as always, we'll put those links in the show notes as well. Thank you so much. I see you every day, so I can't say that it was a pleasure to see you today. It's a pleasure to see you every day, but it was such a pleasure that we finally sat down and had this conversation and shared it with the audience. Thank you so much for your time today.

Therese 'Sei' Spiers: 43:30

Thank you so much, Mick, and thank you for my team on pushing this interview, because at first I don't want to. I just wanted to be at the back it's like a back-end or admin things of The Leadership Project. I don't want to be the face actually of TLP, I just want to support the people around me, especially you and the team. But here we are now. I'm speaking in front of the camera and this mic. Anyway, it's like setting something else, doing something else for me and the team and the TLP.

Mick Spiers: 44:02

All right, brilliant. Thank you so much, Sei. Really great.